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I have no problem with Mingo. I do have a problem with he fact that we could have easily gotten Mingo and a 2nd.
Essplain? 
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I think they had a trade partner, but wanted Jordan or MIngo. With Jordan off the board, the pick was easy for them. I expect Mingo to be really good by year three. All the pass rushers have question marks, but my picks came to Milliner, Jordan & Mingo. I'm not sad we didn't pick Milliner because I think Mingo will pay dividends for years to come. I think he'll put on fifteen pounds, and learn some inside techniques, then watch out. With the rotation everyone stays fresh, but I can see third and long scenarios where Kruger, Sheard & Mingo are all on the field. That could be scary.
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Couple of points here ...
- I like when they describe a guy as "high motor and "hardworker" ... I also like when they call guys a "physical freak of nature" ... when you get the rare combination of BOTH of those things on the same guy ... That has to be a good thing right?
- I've heard guys on sports radio walk about Mingo quite a bit before the draft. One draft analyst really liked him, despite the low stats. He said that LSU played a gap-responsibility type defense, so part of the reason you see low sack numbers and him getting "hung up" on blocks was because he being asked to maintain responsibilities, rather than go after the Quarterback. That's something he's going to be doing much more often here.
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LSU plays a pretty much straight up, straight forward defense.
I think you'll see Mingo in different spots with Ray Horton.
I love that he will have all kinds of help around him as he's learning the league. Kruger, who just won a ring, DQ, and some of these newer young guys who are starting to get it, Robertson, Fort, etc... He will be in good hands.
I'm really really excited to see how this thing plays out.
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Everyone also said he was one of the best character guys in the draft as well. After seeing his press conference I can see why people said that.
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He said that LSU played a gap-responsibility type defense, so part of the reason you see low sack numbers and him getting "hung up" on blocks was because he being asked to maintain responsibilities,
exactly n I thought he handled the blocking well considering the blockers were not TEs n had 60+ lbs on him. But when it came time to shed the block in most cases he did so - unfortunately he missed the tackle a lot which was my only real negative on him. I also thought he did a good job splitting double teams n working his way through.
Here are the ingredients in my eyes that will determine if he will be Good to Great.
1. He has to want it...in saying so he has to work hard in becoming THE BEST not ok or good but he has to want to be THE BEST!...I believe from our interviews we came away with this being a CHECK!
2. He has to be football intelligent. Understand defensive schemes as well as offensive schemes - this we will have to find out but again our FO n coaches seemed to have gotten sold on him during the skull sessions.
3. He has to have a quick natural step - you cannot teach this just like basketball if you got that quick step you have something very special. I cannot impress how important this first step is n he's got one of the quickest in the draft. This forces the LT/RT to commit to their step too soon which he can create havoc n dictate. CHECK!
4. Motor/heart never give up again there are no stats or drills for this. But everything I see from the film is a CHECK!
There just are very few flags of failure here. Will he become a Hall of Famer??? No way we can tell but he could be around 260 in two years. He seems to have the right heart...we have good leadership for him between DQ, Kruger, Groves n even Sheard for that matter. What role will he take on - 3 down as a rookie? Passing Downs? We'll find out - I don't understand the woah is us tude??? We haven't had a blown first round in how long?
Wimbley? not a total bust. BE...ok 2005 Why I hate taking WRs early 
Joe T...none, Mack, Haden, Taylor, Trent - we have been pretty strong since 2007...2 late QBs with extra picks. One a bust the other still TBA.
Joe T seems to have broken the CURSE!!! 
I don't see this as an OH NO Moment. I wanted this Edge rusher stud for our new D...Ok I'll get over not getting my personal favorite in Ziggy but the theory is still there. Just about all boards (draft sites - who knows about NFL teams) had Mingo in the top 15 in a draft that nobody really had a good bead on.
Most sites had him as the #2 OLB behind Jordan...3rd if they considered Ziggy or any DE as a 3/4 OLB...I mean the only other first rounders were Werner n Jarvis Jones who both were not in Mingo's class.
Trading back...I'm telling you all - I know he has beady eyes but Banner doesn't know how to be Sneaky. Ok he was honest we had One, Two or Three guys targeted for this Edge Rusher Board of ours...some say Jordan or Mingo...some say just Mingo??? Don't know for sure. but Mingo was the only one there n he was our "TARGET" so Banner fesses up we had a trade down deal all set up but we passed cause we wanted MINGO. Right away its a mistake - we could have had so no so in the 2nd n 3rd who have the moniker of OLB to fill a position??? Huh? This isn't a grab bag via position we do too many Mocks n that is what happens in MOCKS you go for NEED n then fit any guy at any slot as long as you fill that need somewhere in the draft...you did well.
this is about Wanting a BALL PLAYER specifically n we obviously wanted him...now Banner is to be vilified cause he had a deal in place...so now Mingo cost not only #6 but the 2nd or 3rd rounder we had in the deal...come on dawgs. Enough.
Well we'll see how he produces...I'm not going to go Shangra la on you all cause it will be noted that I am a HOMER...so it will have to end with a We will see...just I don't see the red flags.
JMHO
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Go Browns!
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If you don't like it, you've never seen him play.
It's that simple.
Care to talk football? What did he do that was good? Justify the pick. There's a lot of stuff said criticizing him.
Mingo is raw, I'll admit that. However, there's no sure thing in this draft, at any position.
Even a guy like Milliner, who everyone wanted, had a lot of question marks. Hell, the Raiders were about to take Hayden at 3, with Milliner on the board.
In a draft like this, unless you go OT, you're reaching a little bit in the first round. The middle rounds are gold this year, though.
Why do I like the Mingo pick? Because as a pure pass rusher, he is the best in the draft.
He gets a quick jump off the ball, he has rare speed for a guy that size (rumors of him running a 4.5 40 time), he's a high energy player who creates havoc. He plays a "controlled chaos" style, low pad level creating good leverage coming off the end.
He's a little light, so I'd like to see him put on about 10lbs of muscle, but given his strengths, moving to the OLB in a 3-4 as opposed to being a down DE in a 4-3 will greatly benefit him.
He's got some improvement to do to become an all around football player, but he's the best pure pass rusther in the draft.
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This guy said he was 237 lbs. Not a far cry from 241lbs but let's get this kid some extra value meals in his life!
Tackles are tackles.
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we could have traded back and still possibly gotten jarvis jones who had 28 sacks the past 2 seasons....... 
" Now here you are running these dirty old streets tattoo on your neck fake gold on your teeth, got the hood here snowed but you can't fool me, we both know who you are"
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we could have traded back and still possibly gotten jarvis jones who had 28 sacks the past 2 seasons.......
I love how Jarvis Jones plays. I hate that Pitt got him. But, I do think teams are rightfully scared of his spinal stenosis. It may not become a factor in year1, 2, 3, but at some point, it likely will end his career early.
here's a very good article on the matter:
http://www.austinchronicle.com/blogs/sports/2013-01-23/the-nfl-beat-spinal-stenosis/
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I don't see it as an OH NO moment either. I would much rather see a player selected at #6 who is an every down, plug and play player.
With some of his technique issues and seeing him more as a situational player, I just don't feel that's what you should be looking for with the #6 pick.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
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Three things :
1. Jarvis Jones played in a different defensive system, allowing more sacks.
2. Jarvis Jones is a medical risk.
3. You have no idea what trade offers, if any, we had. Easy to say "trade back" but if the value isn't there, it's not there.
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Slick...you don't watch much SEC do ya. Don't get hung up on the numbers. Watch each of them. Jones can't tote Mingo's jock!!!! Study a little bit before you act as if its gospel.
You dont have to win every game just the next one!
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Three things :
1. Jarvis Jones played in a different defensive system, allowing more sacks.
2. Jarvis Jones is a medical risk.
3. You have no idea what trade offers, if any, we had. Easy to say "trade back" but if the value isn't there, it's not there.
Game. Set. Match.
How does a league celebrating its 100th season only recognize the 53 most recent championships?
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Hopefully mingo lives up to his bark. I still think its crazy we didn't take a CB when we have such a glaring big hole at the spot.
You can't fix stupid but you can destroy ignorance. When you destroy ignorance you remove the justifications for evil. If you want to destroy evil then educate our people. Hate is a tool of the stupid to deal with what they can't understand.
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Slick...you don't watch much SEC do ya. Don't get hung up on the numbers. Watch each of them. Jones can't tote Mingo's jock!!!! Study a little bit before you act as if its gospel.
never said jones was better then mingo. Just saying we could have had him AND a second round pick and then we could grab a good corner.....but not now. No instead we will be giving up 300 yards passing a game
" Now here you are running these dirty old streets tattoo on your neck fake gold on your teeth, got the hood here snowed but you can't fool me, we both know who you are"
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Situational Pit only if we decide on bringing him on slow following the 49ers blue print with Aldon Smith.
Only cause its a position that we could. But we could put a word in to the coaching staff that the fans would feel a lot better about the investment if we play him every down RIGHT AWAY...maybe they'll do it???
Situational PASS RUSHERS is supposedly well worth it. If we are lucky he will get the full gambit of the D from Game 1. But if we keep Sheard or possibly Grove being more experienced taking on the role of running downs. Also till he gets beefed up with a full off season it might be wise to keep the pounding away from that comes from the running attack. ???
I actually understand what you are saying. But I think you are looking at anything possible to mess this pick up...Its tought to think we got a stud but its been pretty good to us Drafting in the first since Joe Thomas.  situational pass rusher is not our 1980 role playing....Now teams are passing MORE than they run. Use to be like 90% was a loss if you passed more than 40 times a game. This is a different Football role.
JMHO. ??? btw were you all for Ziggy?
Defense wins championships. Watson play your butt off!
Go Browns!
CHRIST HAS RISEN!
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But slick? Didn't you know we don't need talent in the secondary with the new Magic D Horton will run. All we need is the front seven!
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
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j/c
The issue of weight or whether or not he's very stout has been raised by a number of posters. Since his selection last night I went and looked at several tapes on draftbreakdown. Over and over against almost every opponent there are plays where Mingo gets incredible push against linemen weighing 300 lbs or more. That's not a fluke. I'm sure the Browns' coaches will help him develop hand fighting techniques to go with the leverage he's already shown.
Also, I know there are ways to develop greater strength without excessive muscle mass. What little I've read about the Browns strength coach I think he might be familiar with these training methods. Many of them having been developed by Russian and Eastern European Olympic trainers (none involving needle spikes). I remember reading he studied with some of these coaches.
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[ Just saying we could have had him AND a second round pick and then we could grab a good corner
How do you know that?
This isn't your Madden video game.
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j/c
The issue of weight or whether or not he's very stout has been raised by a number of posters. Since his selection last night I went and looked at several tapes on draftbreakdown. Over and over against almost every opponent there are plays where Mingo gets incredible push against linemen weighing 300 lbs or more. That's not a fluke. I'm sure the Browns' coaches will help him develop hand fighting techniques to go with the leverage he's already shown.
Also, I know there are ways to develop greater strength without excessive muscle mass. What little I've read about the Browns strength coach I think he might be familiar with these training methods. Many of them having been developed by Russian and Eastern European Olympic trainers (none involving needle spikes). I remember reading he studied with some of these coaches.
speaking of flukes, he bullrushed Fluker time and time again in the Bama game. he's stronger than he looks because he understands his leverage points. it's one of the questions on a guy like Ansah (who is bigger, stronger but doesn't get his body into the same type of position).
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Situational Pit only if we decide on bringing him on slow following the 49ers blue print with Aldon Smith.
That's fine if he turns out to be Aldon smith. But I believe Smith had much better technique coming out of college.
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Only cause its a position that we could. But we could put a word in to the coaching staff that the fans would feel a lot better about the investment if we play him every down RIGHT AWAY...maybe they'll do it???
No, they could have drafted a player that could have played every down but they chose not to.
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Situational PASS RUSHERS is supposedly well worth it. If we are lucky he will get the full gambit of the D from Game 1. But if we keep Sheard or possibly Grove being more experienced taking on the role of running downs. Also till he gets beefed up with a full off season it might be wise to keep the pounding away from that comes from the running attack. ???
You know, it's kind of funny, you go on later in your post to talk about how much the league passes now. I agree. which pokes a pretty big hole in the theory of many here I believe. In the league today, nobody really knows which will be a passing down and which will be a rushing down unless it's third and very long. Otherwise? Every down is nothing but a guess and I'm pretty sure opponents will soon exploit such logic.
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I actually understand what you are saying. But I think you are looking at anything possible to mess this pick up...Its tought to think we got a stud but its been pretty good to us Drafting in the first since Joe Thomas.
So who is drafting has nothing to do with it? We're just on a lucky streak and even we couldn't mess it up, right? Is that what you're saying?
I hope the best for the pick Tab. But his technique has some question marks. I really think Jarvis Jones will be a better NFL player when all is said and done. I certainly hope I'm wrong, but that is my opinion.
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situational pass rusher is not our 1980 role playing....Now teams are passing MORE than they run. Use to be like 90% was a loss if you passed more than 40 times a game. This is a different Football role.
I agree to an extent. I agree there is a lot more passing now and as mentioned above, you never know when they will pass anymore either. Well unless you're playing against Pat Shurmer.
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??? btw were you all for Ziggy?
I really wasn't all in for anybody. I usually pimp a player but stayed silent this year. I had no horse in the race.
It just seems to me that investments needed to be diversified to some extent rather than this FO putting all its eggs in one basket and betting the farm on the front 7 while ignoring so many other areas.
But time will tell.......
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
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Wasn't my first choice, but my second. Milliner filled a bigger hole IMO, but I understand the logic in the choice.
Our front 7 is looking to be pretty damn stacked, and that's on the different levels we'll be playing. Prototypical 3-4 OLB....Sheard to play DE in our 4-3 front, and our DL can rotate all game with the talent there.
THIS is why they didn't go after a CB. With the pass rush, our secondary is automatically better.
![[Linked Image from pic18.picturetrail.com]](http://pic18.picturetrail.com/VOL905/3216203/6567769/349897772.jpg) "The Browns' defense is kicking mucho dupa."
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Never heard that before Pit...is this Magic Horton D something you read? Can you share the Link...
Come on Pit. Not one dawg said that but if that is the way you wish to Debate with yourself of course you will think you are correct. Slick has been suicidal posting since our pick....go read all his posts...so you are saying that is your opinion also... 
Wah...wee could have had Millner. You know the prospect that was Definately going to the Eagles well maybe Jags. well if not there than definately the LIONS....Wait maybe the Dolphins will trade up for that Great Special CB...nope they went for a Pass Rusher...well Looks like ALL THE PICKS leading up to us were spent on LT.
You know the old unwritten order of RARE PRODUCT IN THE NFL.
#1 QB....obviously nothing worthy of a top 10 sniff.
#2 Left Tackle...woah, 3 went early none in the class of Joe Thomas but went 1,2 n 4.
#3 Edge Pass Rusher...First move up...overall #3 n the only other none Left Tackle went edge rusher at #5. Oh guess what #6.
#4 Cover Corners. overall #9 n 12 (if you wish to count anything taken by the Raiders) jets were scoffed at for trading the best Cover Corner in the NFL because he had injury ??? for a Prospect Cover Corner w/injury ???
When we have been told by every expert draft talking head bozo whatever that this draft is pretty deep in CBs...but not those Edge Rushers....after Mingo there was a big drop.
that is all that anyone is saying. Yes we could have had Millner a very talented btw CB but he did have glaring medical issues n the CB level is deep in this draft.
Thats all I or anyone else ever stated was This draft...There was a high ledge to drop from talent. But not so high from CBs. Also it is a fact that CB talent as a UNIT...all 4-5-6 in coverage would benefit with Pressure on the QB...movement more decision mistakes. more inaccurate passes, more tipped passes, more wobbly passes...for the entire DB unit to benefit on. Why not. We aren't talking a Magic Bean Defense...we are talking about what is going on in the NFL.
Haven't you been listening when other teams make moves...oh HOW DO YOU BEAT TOM BRADY...oh HOW DO YOU BEAT MANNING...Pressure, I really don't hear about get first round CBs is the way ?? You tell me. But then you have to know this Pit. You're pretty savvy football wise. Pressure only works for other teams...not the Browns?
Well enjoy day two...don't know what move we make.
I don't want this trade to go through Devon Bess from the Dolphins??? But we'll see haven't heard a peep since so maybe it is not going through.
Sheard...I like Sheard hope he remains but if we do trade him...I understand.
But it would have to be for somebody we really want...like maybe Cyprien? or Margus Hunt?
I'm hoping Amerson drops to our 3rd round pick...
JMHO we'll see enjoy Day 2 All will be good its the system O n D all will look Good
Defense wins championships. Watson play your butt off!
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I remember that. I was one of the ones who thought Schwartz went too early. He was actually one of the guys I wanted us to draft. I did my own player profile on him. I had him going in the mid 3rd to mid 4th round range. I thought we reached, but he proved me wrong. He had an excellent year.
Mingo was not my first choice. I wanted Milliner. After that, I was hoping for a trade down. But, I can see how Mingo can really help this defense. It doesn't seem like a great pick, but it sure doesn't seem like a horrific pick. Heck, Ansah went BEFORE Mingo. This draft is full of players w/big question marks. It's a weird draft.
And to top it off, look at how many teams are drafting players at positions where they created the need by letting current players go. Jets trade Revis and draft Milliner. KC wants to get rid of their LT and draft a LT. Detroit allows to DEs to depart and draft another one. Etc......
I wanted Milliner or Jordon. I thought for sure when Miami traded up they were going for the Left Tackle. When they took Dion I was stunned. I figured Milliner would go to the Lions and we'd trade down if possible. This was a weird draft. I hope this new blitz every down defense works. I hope Mingo gets 15 sacks this season. But I think we better plan on scoring a LOT of points. When you play like that you do make big plays(sacks, ints, forced fumbles). But you give up big plays too. It should be fun to watch if they get this blitz fired up. If not, it's probably going to be pretty ugly. We shall see come September. WAY to early to freak out though.
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Tab, if they 8-10 CB's go off the board in round 2 as many seem to think, that will have us drafting the 11th to 12th CB in this draft at best and we still would have no S to speak of. Now you seem to think that having several pass rushers and one legit CB is some kind of magic answer. And yes, many people have claimed we really don't need a strong secondary with Hortons D. They make it sound like some kind of afterthought. I know you can read Tab and it's been posted all over the board. I may have taken a little liberty with it. And Millner went 9th. He was a top 10 pick and I have to wonder where Mingo would have went had we not have selected him? Of course we don't have the answer to that but since Millner did go at #9 you need not act as if he fell off the charts because he didn't. I guess three pass rushers with two good CB's makes more sense to me than investing in four pass rushers and no real solution, only questions at CB. There's been zero balance in the major investments of this FO. They've focused on one thing with all major investments and let the rest go ignored. Now I know this draft is deep at CB, but those who feel 12-14 deep at the CB position is some reasonable response to that, I think they're off their rocker. I guess maybe people who wish to see more areas than one addressed with some real help are the ones who have it wrong. Because what they have done is built a front seven and left most everything else to a third round pick or less. Surely you don't believe that is the best solution to our problems do you?
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jc,
To everyone freaking out about the Corner opposite Joe Haden. Every game I watched you hear announces or fans say no matter how good your corners are, if you can't get to the QB, the receivers are going to get open. We made the right choice over Milliner for this exact reason. CB is deep in this draft we'll be ok. I was hoping to trade back like many of you. But I still would have taken the top Pass Rusher first then CB second.
"He who buys what he does not need steals from himself."
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We will see, as strange as this might sound, the Mingo pick will look better or worse for me depending on what we do with our next picks. I always look at drafts as a whole and how our FO plays it, that's still wide open
That's not strange at all to me. For me, the draft isn't about winning the pick. It's about "how do you most-improve your team with the resources available to you?" JMO.
I agree with both of you. It is a draft class and it is pretty rare one player is the only one to have a impact, good or bad.
I myself like the pick just based on it's own.
Even if the guy is the next Cam Wimbly and is nothing but a speed rusher, if he can make 8-9 sacks a year and double that in pressures, it isn't a bad thing. Especially when you add it to the "Whole".
My personal feeling is he will become more than that. I think he can become more or less a sack a game type player, and for every sack, a player usually has 3-4 almost sacks.
That impacts a game.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong ![[Linked Image]](http://www.dawgtalkers.net/uploads/small-gator-chomp.gif)
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Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 5,915 Likes: 16
Hall of Famer
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Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2007
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This guy said he was 237 lbs. Not a far cry from 241lbs but let's get this kid some extra value meals in his life!
Sure, lets turn the kid into Mel Turpin. 
#BlackLivesMatter #StopAsianHate
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Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 55,499 Likes: 906
Legend
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Legend
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 55,499 Likes: 906 |
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Since he was picked much higher
Thanks guys! Conventional wisdom says that a high 1st rounder (in our case, #6), should quickly become a Pro Bowler. A guy who is not going to see the field on all downs/situations, likely won't reach that lofty status. That is my rationale to believe Mingo was over-drafted...
Who would you have taken instead?
And by your reasoning, Hecket was a total failure, right? In three years, he did not draft one Pro Bowl player. Are you going to rip him?
You guys try and pretend to be serious, but you are so full of crap and so freaking obvious.
Please stop humiliating yourselves.
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Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 55,499 Likes: 906
Legend
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Legend
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 55,499 Likes: 906 |
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It just seems to me that investments needed to be diversified to some extent rather than this FO putting all its eggs in one basket and betting the farm on the front 7 while ignoring so many other areas.
I am not saying this in a confrontational manner, but I really want to know if you think it's more important to draft for need over BPA?
Me? I'm all for BPA. There are a few exceptions, such as---the Browns should not draft a LT or a C. But otherwise, I say draft BPA and in the long run, you will be better off.
I am NOT saying Mingo was the BPA. He may have been. He may not have been. The Browns thought he was.
Regarding the 3-down argument. I hear you, but how important is it. I think production is more important. A guy like John Abraham was not a 3-down player, but he made way more plays than anyone else on his defense.
Our defense is about attacking. I think Horton and Chud want a lot of front seven guys who will get after it. I think we will be subbing frequently. Are you telling me Taylor was not worth a 1st round pick because he gets subbed for a lot? It's all relevant, man.
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Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 2,856
Dawg Talker
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Dawg Talker
Joined: Mar 2013
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this just adds to our versatility, being a starter is not what it used to be so much siuational players anymore ... I think Ytown ran down some of the many fronts we could roll out ,,, scary
#gmstrong
A smart person knows what to say.
A wise person knows whether or not to say it.
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 26,821 Likes: 460
Legend
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Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 26,821 Likes: 460 |
With the their first pick in the NFL draft The Cleveland Browns select Craig Powell..... opps sorry another damn flashback
I AM ALWAYS RIGHT... except when I am wrong.
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Joined: Sep 2006
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Hall of Famer
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Hall of Famer
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Slick...you don't watch much SEC do ya. Don't get hung up on the numbers. Watch each of them. Jones can't tote Mingo's jock!!!! Study a little bit before you act as if its gospel.
This!  And where did all these poster's with so much negativity come from?
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DawgTalkers.net
Forums The Archives 2013 NFL Season NFL Draft (2013) Round 1 Pick: Barkevious Mingo
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