https://www.yahoo.com/news/trump-flag-burning-should-be-illegal-151650482.htmlPresident-elect Donald Trump says those who burn the American flag should face punishment.
“Nobody should be allowed to burn the American flag,” Trump tweeted on Tuesday. “If they do, there must be consequences — perhaps loss of citizenship or year in jail!”
The Supreme Court disagrees.
In 1989, the court ruled that flag burning was protected as free speech under the First Amendment. The 5-4 ruling came after Gregory Johnson, a Texas protester who had been convicted for violating a state law that prohibited the “desecration of a venerated object,” appealed to the nation’s highest court.
The following year, the Supreme Court again voted in favor to protect flag burning when it ruled that the Flag Protection Act of 1989 — passed by Congress in response to the Texas v. Johnson decision — was unconstitutional.
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The full article is on the link.
So loss of citizenship?
Sounds like fascism. Man you conservatives really like jailing people for any ole reason.
The Trump Presidency is gonna be so much fun I can't wait!
So, as of now, and since 1989, burning the flag has been considered a 1st amendment right.
As of now, it still is.
I'm of the understanding that a president can't go against the supreme court with an executive order. (maybe I'm wrong on that?)
I also have the right to yell "fire" in a theater. I can do that. It doesn't mean I won't suffer the consequences of doing so, but the 1st gives me that right. Doesn't it?
Well, trump is about to choose a new judge.
Maybe even two if the old lady retires.
So that decision can certainly be reversed. Just like other decisions the SC has made.
And then what
Fun for you, a nightmare for others.
I guess if the supreme court changes a law, I have to abide by it.
And for the record, I don't care if someone in this country wants to burn the flag as a protest. I really, really don't care. And I care even less if our flag gets burned in some other country. It speaks alot more about them than it does the country.
So whatever the government says, you're gonna just accept it.
Man oh man, has the rhetoric changed now that trump is about to be president.
So whatever the government says, you're gonna just accept it.
Man oh man, has the rhetoric changed now that trump is about to be president.
Feel free to protest it like I have their Abortion decision, just don't break the law or try to trample our new Rights.
Flag Protection act of 2005 The Flag Protection Act of 2005 was a proposed United States federal law introduced in the United States Senate at the 109th United States Congress on October 24, 2005, by Senator Bob Bennett (R-Utah) and co-sponsored by Senator Hillary Clinton (D-N.Y.). Later co-sponsors included Barbara Boxer (D-Calif.), Mark Pryor (D-Ark.) and Thomas Carper (D-Del.).[1]
The law would have prohibited burning or otherwise destroying and damaging the US flag with the primary purpose of intimidation or inciting immediate violence or for the act of terrorism. It called for a punishment of no more than one year in prison and a fine of no more than $100,000; unless that flag was property of the United States Government, in which case the penalty would be a fine of not more than $250,000, not more than two years in prison, or both.[1][2][3]
Don't remember the liberals throwing a fit about this one.
New rights?
He's trying to take away rights.
The land of the free. How ironic.
Probabaly cause I was 17 when that happened.
Also, the president-elect didn't suggest anything like that at the time. But Trump is.
Horrible spin job. Try again.
New rights?
He's trying to take away rights.
The land of the free. How ironic.
He can't take away any of our Rights or create new ones, only his hand picked Supreme Court can do that.
It is only a Right if the Supremes say its a Right.
New rights?
He's trying to take away rights.
The land of the free. How ironic.
He can't take away any of our Rights or create new ones, only his hand picked Supreme Court can do that.
It is only a Right if the Supremes say its a Right.
If he picks SC judges that believe the way he does, then he essentially is.
You're continuing to do a terrible job trying to justify this.
Justify what? His Right to nominate Supreme Court Judges?
Probabaly cause I was 17 when that happened.
Also, the president-elect didn't suggest anything like that at the time. But Trump is.
Horrible spin job. Try again.
So, even though your girl was in favor of it in 2005, it's now a bad thing? Weird.
It's a bad thing then, it's a bad thing now.
You didn't see anywhere in that post where I defended her actions on that bill.
Try again.
So whatever the government says, you're gonna just accept it.
Man oh man, has the rhetoric changed now that trump is about to be president.
I don't have a choice. If the gov't says something is a law, I have to follow it, OR risk the penalty. Pretty simple logic, really.
Now, I can protest it. I can do my best to elect leaders that will change something. But I have to follow the law. So do you.
It's weird how that works, isn't it?
Justifying his potential threat of taking rights away.
It's a bad thing then, it's a bad thing now.
You didn't see anywhere in that post where I defended her actions on that bill.
Try again.
Has the supreme court changed the ruling?
Justifying his potential threat of taking rights away.
Only the Supreme Court can do such a thing.
So whatever the government says, you're gonna just accept it.
Man oh man, has the rhetoric changed now that trump is about to be president.
I don't have a choice. If the gov't says something is a law, I have to follow it, OR risk the penalty. Pretty simple logic, really.
Now, I can protest it. I can do my best to elect leaders that will change something. But I have to follow the law. So do you.
It's weird how that works, isn't it?
Actually it's not weird at all. I expect nothing less from you. Just bend over and take it from the government.
That alcohol you like to drink. You know why it got made legal again?
Civil disobedience. The country said F that, and did it anyway.
But I get it. A lot of you guys reap rewards without putting in any actual work.
A recurring theme around here.
Spin doctors out in full force.
Trump was right. He could shoot somebody, and people will defend him.
Trump will be your President soon so you should invest in lots and lots of buckets for them there tears.
Trump will be your President soon so you should invest in lots and lots of buckets for them there tears.
The reality is that it will be your tears that will need buckets.
This is gonna play out just as people imagine. Trump will do a ton of things that essentially takes the country socially backwards, while not fixing anything with regards to the economy.
I was just about to post something like that. Haha
I don't agree w/the loss of citizenship, but Swish.........what is so great about burning the American flag? You act like these idiots are heroes. They're idiots who are spoiled rotten and are lashing out about something they know very little about.
I have a better idea for Trump. Those idiots that are burning and looting stores in the name of Black Lives Matter should be deported or imprisoned.
Protest all you want, but destruction of property, harming innocent individuals, and stealing are crimes.
Y'all are never going to win another election as long as you support the criminal element of our society. I don't like the Republican party, but F..you to anyone who thinks harming my family is okay because of some unrelated incident.
Trump will be your President soon so you should invest in lots and lots of buckets for them there tears.
The reality is that it will be your tears that will need buckets.
This is gonna play out just as people imagine. Trump will do a ton of things that essentially takes the country socially backwards, while not fixing anything with regards to the economy.
This from the guy who said Hillary would be President. Pfft.
Your post is ridiculous.
Did I say burning the American flag is great?
No.
Do I support destruction, stealing and harming people?
No.
And I've stated that multiple times on this board.
I'm not gonna discuss anything with you if you keep making. Gross generalizations and assumptions about me, ya know, the very thing you constantly complain about.
Come at me correct, or don't come at me at all.
I'll support a ban on burning the flag if you support a ban on the confederate flag.
I'll come at you any way I want and you can't stop me. Just like I would have ran your ass over on the football field.
Stop making dumb, whiny posts and I will stop being so aggressive.
I'll support a ban on burning the flag if you support a ban on the confederate flag.
Perhaps the Confederate Flag WILL BE our flag. We will have to ask the Supreme Court. Not yet tho, maybe in another year.
The football field?
Man what is your weak ass talking about? I doubt you even played ball. You have as much credibility in that as your weak ass claim of running through East Cleveland back in your day.
I bet your from a soft city like Mentor. You finally met your one black friend in the mall somewhere and thought you were about that life.
I got no time for frauds.
Vers is from Mentor?
But I thought...
WOW!
The burning of the flag is protected freedom of speech, as it should be. The flag is just cloth, nothing special. What is special is what's in our hearts about the flag and what it represents to us as individuals. Some don't respect the flag, okay, welcome to a free America. Fly it, burn it, You're choice in a free society. In the end it's symbolism will endure as the true value of our society, our country.
He is completely wrong. Nothing more to say about it.
Flag burning should be banned only if waving the confederate flag should be banned.
The Trump Presidency is gonna be so much fun I can't wait!
Yep. Especially with his proposed Treasury Secretary who was with Goldman Sachs, Wall Street exec who also bought up a foreclosure machine in California and made a ton of money on the backs and tears of hard working folks while they lost everything during the Great Recession.
Oh yea, I forgot....he is the "anti-establishment" candidate who was running for the little guy...us 99%. He also said anti-Wall St. things on his campaign and then rewards them with spots on his transition team.
Yep, the duping of America by a greedy con-man is only just beginning.
I would support the burning of the Confederate flag.
May I ask why you guys think burning the American flag is such a good thing?
May I ask why you guys think burning the American flag is such a good thing?
Nowhere in my post did I condone or say that I thought it was good. I didn't even comment on the flag burning issue. I was replying to 40 who said the Trump Presidency was going to be fun.
I know that, but the thread is about burning the flag. I think it is a moronic act. Are we really going to cry if those people face punishment?
May I ask why you guys think burning the American flag is such a good thing?
I don't know, but then again I did burn my LeBron James Youth jersey when he left. So I'm not sure I should be the one to talk.
However, it's very important that all speech is allowed. I often come across the thoughts of Noam Chomsky when faced with this dilemma. For some context of this quote, Chomsky caught flack for signing an undetailed petition trying to get a French professor freedom, after he denied the Holocaust. Chomsky didn't know the second bit.
Let me add a final remark about Faurisson's alleged "anti-Semitism." Note first that even if Faurisson were to be a rabid anti-Semite and fanatic pro-Nazi -- such charges have been presented to me in private correspondence that it would be improper to cite in detail here -- this would have no bearing whatsoever on the legitimacy of the defense of his civil rights. On the contrary, it would make it all the more imperative to defend them since, once again, it has been a truism for years, indeed centuries, that it is precisely in the case of horrendous ideas that the right of free expression must be most vigorously defended; it is easy enough to defend free expression for those who require no such defense. Putting this central issue aside, is it true that Faurisson is an anti-Semite or a neo-Nazi? As noted earlier, I do not know his work very well. But from what I have read -- largely as a result of the nature of the attacks on him -- I find no evidence to support either conclusion. Nor do I find credible evidence in the material that I have read concerning him, either in the public record or in private correspondence. As far as I can determine, he is a relatively apolitical liberal of some sort.
Eck..........I hated seeing those guys burning LeBron's jersey. Bunch of punks in my view. He was a free agent and was well w/in his rights to leave.
I think there are much better ways to protest the state of things than to burn things. I believe in being proactive and innovative rather than defiant and destructive.
I know that, but the thread is about burning the flag. I think it is a moronic act. Are we really going to cry if those people face punishment?
Well, as you ask....
I think our prisons and tax dollars can be better served for real criminals. Somebody exercising their 1st amendment right by burning the flag (or putting it on the ground where people have to walk across it like the kid did in the Chicago art exhibit in the late 80's/early 90's causing outcry from the right) is far less of an issue than it is to lock people up for doing so. Imprisonment for a year, revoking citizenship etc. is not the actions of a free country. In fact, it is the complete opposite of freedom.
Okay, but beating people up because they have Trump stickers on their car and robbing them is how a free nation should work?
How about people setting fires to businesses and looting them while pretending that you are protesting the shooting of another person? Is that how a free nation should work?
It amazes me about the things people complain about.
Yeah, I mean, I just didn't really want any LeBron James merch back then. Still kinda don't.
Okay, but beating people up because they have Trump stickers on their car and robbing them is how a free nation should work?
How about people setting fires to businesses and looting them while pretending that you are protesting the shooting of another person? Is that how a free nation should work?
It amazes me about the things people complain about.
Never have I once condoned or supported anything of the such. So, not sure where this accusation is coming from.
In fact, I publicly said several times in these forums how much I was appalled and disgusted with the post-Election riots that happened in my city.
Okay, that's fine.
I just was trying to keep the thread on track. The title was about flag burning.
So whatever the government says, you're gonna just accept it.
Man oh man, has the rhetoric changed now that trump is about to be president.
Kinda sucks when others push their agenda down your throat when that agenda is against everything you stand for or believe in, doesn't it?
Correct me if I'm wrong but the proper way to dispose of a flag is to burn it, not throw it in the trash or whatever.
At any rate, if someone wants to burn their own flag have at it, just don't burn that which doesn't belong to you.
And if that is what someone feels is necessary to protest our government then that's on them. And I don't think there is an epic outbreak of flag burning that is tearing this nation apart much like some other topical issues that surface from time to time like transgender issues for instance.
Let's focus on the real battles, the battles that matter from door to door.
You're correct and disrespect rules in our nation. It's okay to loot. To riot. To burn. But damn if you if you want to put a stop to such things.
You're correct and disrespect rules in our nation. It's okay to loot. To riot. To burn. But damn if you if you want to put a stop to such things.
According to who?
You keep repeating the same nonsense, but it doesn't make it true.
There's not a person on this board who supported the looting and such.
But burning a flag shouldn't get you jail time. It should get you called a few names and some colorful insults, but that's where it ends.
If we're gonna start jailing people for burning flags, then we just decided as a nation that the first amendment doesn't actually exist.
Don't know about the rest of you guys, but that's a rabbit hole I don't plan on going down.
May I ask why you guys think burning the American flag is such a good thing?
I don't think you'd find more than one or two people on this board's entire roster who'd think that flag-burning is a good thing. I certainly don't. I've never done it, and can't see a circumstance in which I ever would. I think the vast majority of citizens feel as I do.
That said, it's protected under the 1st,
which also protects other forms of expression. The instant any one of these protections is jeopardized, all others become at risk.
So... it's not so much a matter of championing the actual burning of the flag, but championing the spirit and letter of the 1st Amendment, which protects us in many other ways.
I abhor hearing far-right ethnic supremacists spout ideology that blatantly runs counter to the way I was raised, but the minute I advocate for their censure, I open the opportunity to have MY voice silenced, as well. And yours. And Swish's. And 40's. It's an ugly and inconvenient aspect of the 1st, but it's necessary to ensure that every one of us has the right to free expression.
If flag-burning becomes punishable by incarceration, deportation (illegal to do to American citizens, btw) or loss of citizenship, it's a very short and slippery slope to outlawing other forms of protected speech/expression. That's the fast track to tyranny- which puts ALL of us in jeopardy.
This one requires a nuanced understanding of our rights, even if we find some free expressions reprehensible. This is a prime example of how steep POTUS-elect's learning curve is... and how woefully unprepared he is for the job he's about to take on. I can name at least 2 dozen posters on this board who regularly demonstrate a better command of the constitution, bill of rights and governmental checks & balances than he has. Dude's gonna have to get used to hearing "no" from blues AND reds once he comes into office. Some things he wants are strictly prohibited by the way our country is set up. Even those who voted for him should be happy (or at least relieved) about that.
So, vers- I can HATE flag-burning as a form of 'peaceful protest,' while still defending another's right to do it. It's still not illegal to act an ass in public- and it should stay that way. It protects all the rest of us when we need to speak up about something.
.02
Clem, I was busting chops. Please allow me to explain why.
I read article after article and post after post about how horrific Trump is and how our liberties are going to not only be challenged, but suppressed and eliminated.
Sorry bro, but I ain't buying that [censored]. It's more than likely going to be more of the same.
Yeah, I am cynical and skeptical, just like the ancient Greek philosophers who realized government was comprised of a bunch of hot-aired, self-serving, blowhards.
Clem, do you really think any flag burners will have their citizenship revoked? Do you really think that they will be jailed for a year?
It's just more melodrama from the dramatists.
Well, trump is about to choose a new judge.
Maybe even two if the old lady retires.
So that decision can certainly be reversed. Just like other decisions the SC has made.
And then what
Well Mr. Smart guy (I figure if I'm STUPID by reasonable deduction U must be SMART) ...
The last SC justice ... u know the guy Trump gets to replace ...
Any clue what his stance on flag burning was .... prolly not .. so i'll clue u in ...
He said something to the affect of "the flag burning hippies should be thrown in jail and then the key should be thrown away" .. or sumptin to that affect ...
Mr. Smart guy ... how did Scalia vote when the issue was brought before him on the SC ...
Again .. I'll help .. since your to busy running around proving how SMART u are all the time as opposed to ACTUALLY LEARNING ANYTHNG .... .
He voted in favor of keeping the hippies out of jail and voted for protecting our right to do it ..
U know why he did that SMART guy? .. cause thats what the CONSTITUTION SAYS TO DO ...
The two liberal old ladies should retire .. not because there liberal but because they don't give a CRAP ABOUT THE CONSTITUTION ... every vote they've ever made follows their BELIEFS and not what the constitution said to do ...
Now go ahead and call me STUPID AGAIN cause i don't understand that the constitution can be can be interpreted differently ... guess what menza .. I DO GET IT ... i can also read ... some parts there isn't much if any GRAY AREA in it ...
Go stick that in your bong and smoke it ... *LOL* ..
Vers, get your boy before I do.
LOL....................I love reading both of you guys. Entertaining as hell!
Vers, get your boy before I do.
*L* ... get me ...
oh no ... i'm quivering ... just like on the other thread where U CALLED ME STUPID for using YOUR EXACT WORDS AGAINST YOU ....
U called me STUPID Swish .. pretty sad u get shcooled by a STUPID PERSON every time i come over here .... sad sad sad Swish ...
Your gonna get me ... *LOL* ..
You've been calling me names since day one.
Don't start none, won't be none. If you wanna throw insults, we can throw insults. Don't whine when I clap back on you.
You have never schooled me.
But here, I gotta take you to class, like normal.
First off, what does Scalia have to do with this?
Trump, from his own mouth, said he's targeting SC judges that are anti abortion. Remember?
So, if you possess the ability to put two and two together, however doubtful that may be, then you will conclude that trump is targeting judges based off his agenda.
So logically, if trump wants people to go to jail for burning a flag, he will also try to target a judge who agrees with that, as well as being anti abortion.
Which I'm sure won't be hard to do in conservative land. That way, all it takes is the issue to be brought up, and bam: the judges can rule in that direction.
A 5-4 ruling means all it takes is a swing the other direction, and it can become the law just like that.
If you need me to draw stick figures to illustrate what I'm saying to you, let me know.
LOL....................I love reading both of you guys. Entertaining as hell!
Really ... what part of what i said about Scalia is funny? .. i'd call them FACTS that Mr. DEFLECT and INSULT doesn't want to deal with ...
U gotta understand sumptin Vers ... these guys are all about FALSE NARRITIVES ...
LOL....................I love reading both of you guys. Entertaining as hell!
Really ... what part of what i said about Scalia is funny? .. i'd call them FACTS that Mr. DEFLECT and INSULT doesn't want to deal with ...
U gotta understand sumptin Vers ... these guys are all about FALSE NARRITIVES ...
Yep, looks like I gotta draw stick figures.
Everything is going over your head.
He finds it funny watching the two of you argue. He gets entertained by it.
Where do babies come from?
You've been calling me names since day one.
Don't start none, won't be none. If you wanna throw insults, we can throw insults. Don't whine when I clap back on you.
You have never schooled me.
But here, I gotta take you to class, like normal.
First off, what does Scalia have to do with this?
Trump, from his own mouth, said he's targeting SC judges that are anti abortion. Remember?
So, if you possess the ability to put two and two together, however doubtful that may be, then you will conclude that trump is targeting judges based off his agenda.
So logically, if trump wants people to go to jail for burning a flag, he will also try to target a judge who agrees with that, as well as being anti abortion.
Which I'm sure won't be hard to do in conservative land. That way, all it takes is the issue to be brought up, and bam: the judges can rule in that direction.
A 5-4 ruling means all it takes is a swing the other direction, and it can become the law just like that.
If you need me to draw stick figures to illustrate what I'm saying to you, let me know.
I don't whine ... i ain't u ... not going to get into the name calling thing .. waste of time .. once again your wrong ...
U can call me anything u like .. don't bother me in the least .. i ain't a house of cards .. u called me STUPID, DEPLORABLE a RACIST and 3 or 4 other nice things .. its OK .. I'm a big boy .. I also UNDERSTAND names can't hurt me if I don't let them .. am i gonna let u forget u called me STUPID ... not anytime soon ... *LOL* ..
There was lil Marco .. Lyin Ted, Crooked Hillary and now STUPID DIAM .. *LOL* .. its OK man ..
If u don't understand what Scalia has to do with this ... i can't help U Swish ... one thing on the name calling .. I said I thought u were SMART more than once .. now, i'm actually starting to question that ...
Trump ain't oBUMa .. so were good there ...
You didn't address anything in my response toward you.
Talk about deflecting. I see you got triggered again on the name calling.
You're worst than these hardcore feminist.
Where do babies come from?
If you ask Diam, the storks still do deliveries
Where do babies come from?
If you ask Diam, the storks still do deliveries
Your the one living in the 60's Swish ..
Jim Crow laws ... gimme a break ... FALSE NARRATIVE ...
Nightly Night boys ...
Where do babies come from?
If you ask Diam, the storks still do deliveries
Your the one living in the 60's Swish ..
Jim Crow laws ... gimme a break ... FALSE NARRATIVE ...
Nightly Night boys ...
Uhhh....what?
Is Crow my last name? Is Jim my Daddy?
Jim is a lot of people's daddy
If flag-burning becomes punishable by incarceration, deportation (illegal to do to American citizens, btw) or loss of citizenship, it's a very short and slippery slope to outlawing other forms of protected speech/expression. That's the fast track to tyranny- which puts ALL of us in jeopardy.
Yep, and before we know it then they move on to art. Art will have to support the state, look pretty and refuse to show anything demeaning or representative of life other than what the state wants you to see. This was art in the Third Reich. The artists that Hitler decided didn't fit the mold or who didn't support the state were deemed "degenerates". They were publicly humiliated, some of their art was destroyed, some of the artists were thrown into camps while others emigrated to the UK or the USA in fear of the above.
Once you start threatening to renounce citizenship or imprisonment then it really does start getting into "1984/Big Brother" territory. To be honest, I would think anybody, no matter if you are Republican/Conservative or Dem/Liberal would be appalled by this type of talk.
Yeah as really this is just another of the Donald's making promises and keeping them.
Though it is illegal to burn an American flag.
This condition replicated itself in another country. A country that actually
fought against the Third Reich in WWII. And it happened in the decades immediately following the war. Nothing changed except the International Postal Code.
Dmitri Shostakovich. Alexander Solzhenitsyn Mstislav Rostropovich
Clem, I was busting chops. Please allow me to explain why.
I read article after article and post after post about how horrific Trump is and how our liberties are going to not only be challenged, but suppressed and eliminated.
Sorry bro, but I ain't buying that [censored]. It's more than likely going to be more of the same.
For me, this isn't really an issue of 'buying it' or not. Constant vigilance by the populace is a responsibility, if we are to maintain our rights. From my POV, I'll fight as hard for the 1st Amendment as many of my Browns brethren would fight for their 2nd Amendment right. And I'll actually use my 1st to defend their 2nd.
If I lose that voice, so do they- and how do they keep their guns then?
You see, vers: our rights as afforded by the amendments aren't independent of each other. On the contrary, they're
interdependent. If I lose my 1st A voice, I'm in danger of losing the 14th. The 15th. If I lose my personal voice, I could be censured/punished for any poem I write, music I compose, op-ed I publish, or screenplay I concoct.
Yeah, I am cynical and skeptical, just like the ancient Greek philosophers who realized government was comprised of a bunch of hot-aired, self-serving, blowhards.
Clem, do you really think any flag burners will have their citizenship revoked? Do you really think that they will be jailed for a year?
I think there is probably some shady legislative path for something like that to happen. That existential threat is
always there. Like I said, constant vigilance is the price we all must pay to even have these freedoms at all. To me, it's not something I should be taking lightly. Too many of my heroes from the Literary, Fine Art and Classical Music World were punished by their governments. And too many of my ancestors lived in
this country
without these rights for me to ever take them for granted.
The most salient part of your self-described 'cynical observation' was the 'self-serving' mention... and that's the part that should scare each and every one of us the most.
It would serve them best if they could empower us the least. It's why we even HAVE these amendments. Each one of them fixes (or prevents) an Eff-up that deals directly with Basic Human Nature. People are effed-up. ALL people, in some way. The Bible and all the other venerated 'manuals for righteous living' agree on this immutable fact. And effed-up people in power can effect they way WE live our lives.
"Power corrupts. Absolute power corrupts, absolutely."
So... that's MY personal 'cynic's take' on the whole deal. Two different cynics/two different takes on the same situation. You see ineffectual blowhards. I see folks who have a real shot at taking away my ability to ply my trade, speak my mind, educate our young, and make a positive contribution to the country that has provided me so much.
You see? This goes beyond the current admin, the previous admin, or the next admin. It's our responsibility to continually remind them that
they work for us- not the other way around. Our rights make this so. Take away a man's ability to speak- and every other right he has is vulnerable to attack.
It's just more melodrama from the dramatists.
I wish the same were true for me, Dawg. I'd get more nights of good sleep if I could see it your way.
just my .02
This morning as I step back from the raw nerve of emotions we are all showing over this flag burning issue, I asked myself, what is this really all about? Why Flags, why Trump, why now?
The thought has occurred to me that earlier this week Trumps campaign spokesman said in an interview she felt Mr. Trump has angered his base by considering Mitt Romney for Secretary of State.
Trump was furious with her. She had gone rogue in making that statement.
So what action did Trump take to repair any possibility of her being right? He reaches out to his base with a statement that he finds the burning of our flag to be just awful! It should be illegal!
His base is touched! The Donald is still with us!
Could this all be nothing more than a brilliant political move?
Hmmmmmmm.
Look more to the 48 laws of power to explain Trump and Romney.
Law 2: Never Put Too Much Trust In Friends, Learn How To Use Enemies
Be wary of friends they will betray you more quickly, for they are easily aroused to envy. They also become spoiled and aroused to envy. They also become spoiled and tyrannical. But hire a former enemy and he will be more loyal than a friend, because he has more to prove. In fact, you have more to fear from friends than from enemies. If you have no enemies, find a way to make them.
Link
I know that, but the thread is about burning the flag. I think it is a moronic act. Are we really going to cry if those people face punishment?
If they physically hurt someone in the process no, but how many flag burners are guilty of hurting more than feelings?
In one respect, I hate that people feel it's important to burn the flag in protest. As has been pointed out, it's protected.
I agree with Trump and the scores of other politicians who say that flag burning for any reason other than retiring the flag, is not something I want to see as legal.
But if he want's to stop flag burning for protests, he's gonna have to go through all the steps to make it an action that can be prosecuted. As of now, it isn't.
For the moment, this is just more of Trump's blustery commentary.. Chalk this up as another issue such as the "WALL" and "Term Limits"!
In one respect, I hate that people feel it's important to burn the flag in protest. As has been pointed out, it's protected.
I agree with Trump and the scores of other politicians who say that flag burning for any reason other than retiring the flag, is not something I want to see as legal.
But if he want's to stop flag burning for protests, he's gonna have to go through all the steps to make it an action that can be prosecuted. As of now, it isn't.
For the moment, this is just more of Trump's blustery commentary.. Chalk this up as another issue such as the "WALL" and "Term Limits"!
We're not talking about the recount that was dominating the news, are we?
Mission accomplished.
In one respect, I hate that people feel it's important to burn the flag in protest. As has been pointed out, it's protected.
I agree with Trump and the scores of other politicians who say that flag burning for any reason other than retiring the flag, is not something I want to see as legal.
But if he want's to stop flag burning for protests, he's gonna have to go through all the steps to make it an action that can be prosecuted. As of now, it isn't.
For the moment, this is just more of Trump's blustery commentary.. Chalk this up as another issue such as the "WALL" and "Term Limits"!
We're not talking about the recount that was dominating the news, are we?
Mission accomplished.
Are you saying this is a diversion tactic? LOL
If so, there is a better one coming tomorrow when Trump goes to Indiana and announces he's struck a deal with Carrier (United Technologies) to keep those jobs in Indiana that were supposed to move to Mexico starting in 2017.
Can't wait to hear what he had to give them and how he'll pitch it in a way that makes it sound like a great deal for America!
http://www.nytimes.com/2016/11/29/busine...in-us.html?_r=0
If they physically hurt someone in the process no, but how many flag burners are guilty of hurting more than feelings?
LOL.......if it weren't for hurt feelings and drawing attention to oneself, why would anyone burn a flag?
He will never get it through. He needs to stop campaigning and start talking like a President.
He will never get it through. He needs to stop campaigning and start talking like a President.
i feel you...however, i would like to point out something.
apparently his supporters thinks what he saying is presidential. so he probably does talk like a president already....depending on who you're asking, i guess.
at this point, i'm gonna exercise caution when saying never. you just never know, anymore.
Yep, the duping of America by a greedy con-man is only just beginning.
Yup. They just have to dumb down the left a bit more so we dutifully accept the 4th Reich. Sig Heil!
The Trump Presidency is gonna be so much fun I can't wait!
Until he turns on you. And remember the precedent set here might be used in the future by a liberal President.
I don't like flag burners at all, as a matter of fact the act disgusts me on all levels. But your right to free speech and to freely protest is what is at stake here.
When we finally take to the streets in protest we will be waving that there flag and burnin' them there Libs!
They just have to dumb down the left a bit more
Right, like that's even possible.
I can see it now. A group of law biding citizens properly disposing of a few American flags by legally burning them. Are promptly arrested by the self appointed goose stepping Trump Gestapo and dragged off to jail. Or better yet, shot on the spot.
When we finally take to the streets in protest we will be waving that there flag and burnin' them there Libs!
Sig Heil!
I can see it now. A group of law biding citizens properly disposing of a few American flags by legally burning them. Are promptly arrested by the self appointed goose stepping Trump Gestapo and dragged off to jail. Or better yet, shot on the spot.
I can see it now. I'm going to have to read your crap hyperbole for 4 more years.
This morning as I step back from the raw nerve of emotions we are all showing over this flag burning issue, I asked myself, what is this really all about? Why Flags, why Trump, why now?
The thought has occurred to me that earlier this week Trumps campaign spokesman said in an interview she felt Mr. Trump has angered his base by considering Mitt Romney for Secretary of State.
Trump was furious with her. She had gone rogue in making that statement.
So what action did Trump take to repair any possibility of her being right? He reaches out to his base with a statement that he finds the burning of our flag to be just awful! It should be illegal!
His base is touched! The Donald is still with us!
Could this all be nothing more than a brilliant political move?
Hmmmmmmm.
This. He baited you guys and it worked.
First of all, I have not read everyone's thoughts on this thread, so I'll just give mine.
I know the SC has said that burning the American flag is protected under the 1st Amendment as free speech. If they want to make it illegal to burn an American flag as a protest, pass an amendment. That is the only way to actually make it illegal. I would not support this, as I stand firmly for 1st Amendment rights.
I will also say I agree with something I heard on the radio. If you are going to burn the American flag, please be good enough to first wrap yourself in it. I would like to see some local ordinances on lighting fires unsafely in public, so these jerks could at least be charged with a misdemeanor.
If you really want to buy a flag to burn, go ahead. I think if you steal someone else's flag to burn, it should be a felony. My dad's flag that gets hung only on national holidays (Veterans day, 4th of July, Memorial day, other such military observances) is one that flew over the capital, and he applied for that flag through the Navy and waited years to get it. We used to fold it properly after every holiday, and I will be honored to inherit that flag one day. I would have to be stopped from killing someone if I caught them attempting to burn it.
I can see it now. A group of law biding citizens properly disposing of a few American flags by legally burning them. Are promptly arrested by the self appointed goose stepping Trump Gestapo and dragged off to jail. Or better yet, shot on the spot.
Come on. No one is going to kill the Boy Scouts for burning old tattered flags in their disposal ceremony. They do a very honorable job.
He will never get it through. He needs to stop campaigning and start talking like a President.
Are we talking Trump or Obama?
Well, I certainly hope people would get charged for stealing someone's flag.
That's stealing, which is illegal.
Well, I certainly hope people would get charged for stealing someone's flag.
That's stealing, which is illegal.
It's more than that. If they wanted to steal a flag, they could easily steal one from a store. That is a targeted theft against someone that proudly flies one. The flag my dad has is irreplaceable, because of where it came from and how long he's had it. They just don't make them like that anymore.
I believe c-town .. could be wrong on that ... one city and i believe it was c-town before the convention banned burning things in public just to try and stop that ...
*LOL* at wishing they would wrap it around themselves ...
If they want to crap on the people who died for that flag ... wish they had the decency to move to another country to do it ..
INGRATES ... there's a million ways to protest that don't spit on vets ...
CLASSLESS INGRATES ...
I can see it now. A group of law biding citizens properly disposing of a few American flags by legally burning them. Are promptly arrested by the self appointed goose stepping Trump Gestapo and dragged off to jail. Or better yet, shot on the spot.
I can see it now. I'm going to have to read your crap hyperbole for 4 more years.
Or 8. I hate to see how many pieces his head would explode into if Trump wins a 2nd term.
Considering how old that job makes a person and his age now, a full single term could be iffy.
Who you kiddin'? He ain't even sworn in yet and he is already better than the current guy!
8 years ain't no thang!
The Presidency ages men, Trump will age us all instead!
T!
I can see it now. A group of law biding citizens properly disposing of a few American flags by legally burning them. Are promptly arrested by the self appointed goose stepping Trump Gestapo and dragged off to jail. Or better yet, shot on the spot.
I can see it now. I'm going to have to read your crap hyperbole for 4 more years.
We've seen years of crappy hyberbole by dozens of posters here. Why get all snarky about it now?
Could it be that you're upset that you feel the need to defend such a deplorable leader like Trump? Or could it be Trump is white and Obama is black? It certainly can't be out of respect for the presidency because many of you haven't show any of that for years. So what is it?
Considering how old that job makes a person and his age now, a full single term could be iffy.
It's iffy that he won't commit an impeachable crime in his first year.
I can see it now. A group of law biding citizens properly disposing of a few American flags by legally burning them. Are promptly arrested by the self appointed goose stepping Trump Gestapo and dragged off to jail. Or better yet, shot on the spot.
I can see it now. I'm going to have to read your crap hyperbole for 4 more years.
Or 8. I hate to see how many pieces his head would explode into if Trump wins a 2nd term.
There won't be an election in 4 years. Trump will have declared himself supreme leader and exterminated his opposition in the gas chambers by then.
I can see it now. A group of law biding citizens properly disposing of a few American flags by legally burning them. Are promptly arrested by the self appointed goose stepping Trump Gestapo and dragged off to jail. Or better yet, shot on the spot.
I can see it now. I'm going to have to read your crap hyperbole for 4 more years.
We've seen years of crappy hyberbole by dozens of posters here. Why get all snarky about it now?
Could it be that you're upset that you feel the need to defend such a deplorable leader like Trump? Or could it be Trump is white and Obama is black? It certainly can't be out of respect for the presidency because many of you haven't show any of that for years. So what is it?
Maybe you should learn something about a poster before you post such drivel.
We've seen years of crappy hyberbole by dozens of posters here. Why get all snarky about it now?
Could it be that you're upset that you feel the need to defend such a deplorable leader like Trump? Or could it be Trump is white and Obama is black? It certainly can't be out of respect for the presidency because many of you haven't show any of that for years. So what is it?
First, I've been snarky about it before.. don't count yourself as that special or unique.
The second part... I'm not really upset but.. it is addressed to me, but it's talking about a group I don't consider myself a part of, so I'll just let it go.
Sad part about dude ...
He thinks its a black/white thing ...
Trump could be purple for all i care .. he could be oBUMa's kid ... LOVE the fact he understands he's AMERICA'S PRESIDENT and not the worlds ... oBUMa never got that ...
OBUMa could be my father .. i'd still say he SUCKED ...
- doubled the debt ..
- jobs leaving the country daily ..
- refugees and illegals pouring in ..
- numbers on welfare/food stamp out of control ..
- never realized he was AMERICA'S PRESIDENT ...
Spiral will never get that ..
*shrugs* ...
Hey Swish...
I haven't read all of the thread, and I apologize...Not that I don't want to... But I like to stay out of threads like this..
Politics & religion ... are brutal..
I remember people wanting Kaepernick Kicked out of the league and would never want a guy like him on their team..
But yet people are okay with burning the Flag...
I don't care with either.. but seems certain people or situations get a different view from the same people..
Like I said in the Kap thread...as a Vet..it didn't bother me.. I fought for the First Amendment and the Flag.
Yes it is just a piece of cloth... but so was the uniforms of the soldiers who died protecting it...
This subject to me is very simple...keep it it simple..and keep it without insult for the person protesting and the flag that is flying above the protesters head..
Peace and love to all !
Glad you posted bro. Good stuff
It's human nature that people will pick and choose what they will be outraged over.
I supported Kap, right until he didn't vote. I hate burning flags btw, but just because I find something distasteful doesn't mean I think it should be illegal.
So I'm with you on this.
Pretty much, if it doesn't cause bodily harm to others.....than it's whatever really.
While I think it's deplorable to burn the flag I don't think it should be illegal...
Pretty much, if it doesn't cause bodily harm to others.....than it's whatever really.
Neither does bullying.
When we finally take to the streets in protest we will be waving that there flag and burnin' them there Libs!
Sig Heil!
Stille ich Sie töten
When we finally take to the streets in protest we will be waving that there flag and burnin' them there Libs!
Sig Heil!
Stille ich Sie töten
Ha ja Kein Zweifel mit einem Furz.
I'm of the mind that I will stand right beside you for your right to burn the flag, but at the same time, if i see you doing it, I will beat your ass..But like i said, i will fight for that right with you.. Just because you can do something doesn't mean you should, unless obviously properly disposing of flag.
I'm of the mind that I will stand right beside you for your right to burn the flag, but at the same time, if i see you doing it, I will beat your ass..But like i said, i will fight for that right with you.. Just because you can do something doesn't mean you should, unless obviously properly disposing of flag.
You cannot simultaneously claim that something should be a right and then advocate a person exercising that right should have their ass beat if they do it.
But he just did. and it is his Right to say it.
But he just did. and it is his Right to say it.
Then allow me to restate... You cannot say it and have it make sense.
Warning to all races, ages, and sexes: GMs farts do not discriminate.
I guess burning flags is better than burning down buildings, which is what protesters have been doing lately.
Warning to all races, ages, and sexes: GMs farts do not discriminate.
Damn skippy
http://www.nydailynews.com/new-york/nyc-...ticle-1.2897687A Muslim off-duty NYPD officer, hailed by the mayor as a hero, and her 16-year-old son became the city’s latest hate crime victims Saturday when a bigot in Brooklyn yelled at them to “go back to your country,” police sources said.
Officer Aml Elsokary, who was off duty and wearing her hijab, dropped off her 16-year-old on Ridge Blvd. and 67th St. in Bay Ridge just before 6 p.m., the sources said.
After parking her car, she returned to the scene to find her son being shoved by the suspect, a white man in his 30s.
When the officer — a native New Yorker — approached, the man said, “ISIS (expletive), I will cut your throat, go back to your country!”
----
Blue Lives Matta right?
Did she arrest him for assaulting her son?
I hope she choke slammed that punk.
That's absolutely uncalled for.
There is a huge difference between wanting to carefully look at those we allow into our country from troubled parts of the world, and abusing people who are here. There is no excuse for doing what this man did.
It's a shame that kind of stuff happens in ...... liberal New York City, where they voted for Clinton over Trump by a very wide margin. (I heard it was something like 4-1, but I have not bothered to look it up)
Anyway, my not so subtle dig aside,
this kind of stuff is inexcusable.
Joe Friday, best TV rants, ever!
Oh no no no. The best rants still belong to Archie Bunker.
Correct.
They are 'equal opportunity offenders'...
But he just did. and it is his Right to say it.
Then allow me to restate... You cannot say it and have it make sense.
It actually makes perfect sense and I explained why..just because you can do something doesn't mean you should, by the same token everything that you do has consequences, the severity of those consequences vary on the degree of offense. But fighting for someone's rights to oppress infringement regardless of whether or not you agree with the right doesn't have anything to do with whether or not they SHOULD. They are mutually exclusive
There is a huge difference between wanting to carefully look at those we allow into our country from troubled parts of the world, and abusing people who are here.
Built on Trump's rhetoric. Expect growing numbers of this type violence against minorities.
It actually makes perfect sense and I explained why..just because you can do something doesn't mean you should, by the same token everything that you do has consequences, the severity of those consequences vary on the degree of offense. But fighting for someone's rights to oppress infringement regardless of whether or not you agree with the right doesn't have anything to do with whether or not they SHOULD. They are mutually exclusive
I get that. You kicking somebodies ass because they burned their own flag is not a justifiable consequence... and that is what you said you would do.
It actually makes perfect sense and I explained why..just because you can do something doesn't mean you should, by the same token everything that you do has consequences, the severity of those consequences vary on the degree of offense. But fighting for someone's rights to oppress infringement regardless of whether or not you agree with the right doesn't have anything to do with whether or not they SHOULD. They are mutually exclusive
I get that. You kicking somebodies ass because they burned their own flag is not a justifiable consequence... and that is what you said you would do.
whether or not it's justifiable or not is a matter of perception. Maybe not for everyone, but as I've said before, the flag means a little bit more once you've taken a bullet protecting what it represents. They can burn their own flag all they want, hell i'll give them props for having their own flag..just not the flag of my country ..lol, i know what you meant
whether or not it's justifiable or not is a matter of perception.
No, it's a matter of law.
Well, he can break any law he chooses because of his "feelings" and this is Murica!
Well, he can break any law he chooses because of his "feelings" and this is Murica!
Correct.
And if burning the flag becomes illegal, one is still free to burn it.
Freedom of speech. I, you, or anyone else, has the freedom to say what they want. In some situations, it causes consequences. (yelling "fire" in a theater is a classic example).
And if burning the flag becomes illegal, one is still free to burn it.
No, you are NOT still free to do it. It would be a crime. You can do it, but it is illegal so if you get caught you will be punished. That is the very opposite of being free to do something.
When you are FREE to do something, means the government can't arrest or fine you for doing it.
For example....
Freedom of speech. I, you, or anyone else, has the freedom to say what they want. In some situations, it causes consequences. (yelling "fire" in a theater is a classic example).
That is a classic example of something you are NOT free to do.
And I do believe I said "IF it becomes illegal.......you are still free to do it." It's just that there would be consequences.
Please note: No where have I said it should be illegal.
Then you are free to do certain things that are not advisable to do, like burning that flag in front of a biker bar.
And I do believe I said "IF it becomes illegal.......you are still free to do it." It's just that there would be consequences.
Please note: No where have I said it should be illegal.
I know what you said, the IF doesn't matter... you are not free to do illegal things.. that's pretty much the definition.
And I do believe I said "IF it becomes illegal.......you are still free to do it." It's just that there would be consequences.
Please note: No where have I said it should be illegal.
I know what you said, the IF doesn't matter... you are not free to do illegal things.. that's pretty much the definition.
I don't know where the misconnect is coming from.
I said IF it becomes illegal. Not that it IS illegal.
And, you ARE free to do illegal things. When caught, you should suffer the consequences.
Illegal immigrants ............by DEFINITION, are illegal. Yet we have people saying just leave them alone.
Regardless, flag burning is not illegal as of now. IF it becomes illegal, people are still free to burn it. But they should suffer the consequences, IF it becomes illegal.
It really can't be that hard to understand, can it?
And I do believe I said "IF it becomes illegal.......you are still free to do it." It's just that there would be consequences.
Please note: No where have I said it should be illegal.
I know what you said, the IF doesn't matter... you are not free to do illegal things.. that's pretty much the definition.
Speeding is illegal. you are free to do it. If caught, you pay the consequence, right?
Your argument is "Yeah, it's illegal, but you're still FREE to do it".
That's not much of an argument. Murder is illegal, but you're still technically free to do that too. North Korea could claim to be a free country with those kinds of parameters.
And I do believe I said "IF it becomes illegal.......you are still free to do it." It's just that there would be consequences.
Please note: No where have I said it should be illegal.
I know what you said, the IF doesn't matter... you are not free to do illegal things.. that's pretty much the definition.
Speeding is illegal. you are free to do it. If caught, you pay the consequence, right?
Maybe we are arguing over semantics, I don't know... my definition of "free to do something" means you can do it without fear of punishment.. this is different than being capable of doing something if you can get away with it.
To use your speeding analogy, in a 70 mph zone, you are free to drive 70 mph with no fear of punishment, you are capable of driving 85 mph but will be punished if you get caught...