DawgTalkers.net
Dozens of people were unaccounted for after portions of a condo building north of Miami Beach collapsed early Thursday, killing at least one person. Miami-Dade County Commissioner Sally Heyman told CBS News 51 of the building's residents are unaccounted for.

Surfside, Florida, Mayor Charles Burkett said two people were taken to a hospital and one of them died. Miami-Dade Assistant Fire Chief Ray Jadallah said 10 people were treated at the scene of the huge pile of rubble.

Dozens of fire-rescue units responded to the collapse. CBS Miami says rescuers are desperately trying to reach trapped residents. Some may be stuck in the rubble, the station says, adding that firefighters used truck-mounted ladders to reach people stuck on balconies. They also did a floor by floor search.

It was a high-rise condominium building called Champlain Towers South, CBS Miami reports.

Miami-Dade Fire Rescue tweeted that it had more than 80 units there along with units from municipal fire departments. Miami Beach Police tweeted that "multiple police and fire agencies from across Miami-Dade" were assisting.

Florida Power & Light says it cut electricity to about 400 customers in the vicinity.

A family reunification center was set up nearby for anyone looking for unaccounted for relatives.

A man who was evacuated from a nearby hotel said, "The building – one of these huge buildings – gone! … The building – it's gone. … The whole building's gone. … Oh my gosh. This is the most insane thing I've ever seen in my life."

https://www.cbsnews.com/live-updates/florida-building-collapse-surfside/

OMG,, That's scary as hell....
OMG,, That's scary as hell.... Showed it to my wife and he first thought was was that it reminded her of 9/11 when the towers came down... Obviously, much less damaging of course.

I thought it resembled the implosion of a Vegas hotel that I witnessed...

Just devastating. Hopefully they can locate survivors as quickly as possible as there are some major storms coming in.

How could something be so structurally defective without any evidence?










This is a tragedy it's a loss of life, it's a Massive loss of life it's terrible it's a sad day.
Maybe a sinkhole under it collapsed?
j/c...

I think it's far too early to come to any conclusion at this point. However, building high rise condos and hotels on a base of sand near a shifting shoreline brings in many possible failures. Of course it can be done safely as we can all witness. But it certainly complicates things.
Not trying to finger-point at all, but you have to wonder what the fallout of this is going to be for the area. What does this mean for the rest of the building or the adjacent buildings? Are the building codes historically lax, and if they are do we expect to see more of this is the surrounding areas?
I do know that building codes and requirements change and are updated over time. I can think of many examples where they're more stringent from learning about how they weren't comprehensive enough. I can't think of a single example of them being made more lax.

It could be possible to find out when this building was built and what improvements have been added to the building codes since that time to get some clue as to what may have gone wrong.

Often times failures can be tied to cutting corners in building materials which were not up to the engineers specifications, approved plans and or codes. Whether that ends up being connected to poor inspections or something more sinister is often never solved.
Prayers for them. frown
Originally Posted By: PortlandDawg
Maybe a sinkhole under it collapsed?


That was my first thought.
Originally Posted By: PitDAWG
I think it's far too early to come to any conclusion at this point. However, building high rise condos and hotels on a base of sand near a shifting shoreline brings in many possible failures. Of course it can be done safely as we can all witness. But it certainly complicates things.


You noted it, but there are thousands of condos, buildings on shoreline all around the world. That isn't a real issue.

I wonder how old the building was? I am sure that is being reported.

I am no engineer, but there are components inside that may not be exposed that failed for one reason or another...maybe years ago and the weight finally caused it to pancake down.

As portland noted, and it was my first thought, possible a sink hole developed at some point and caused the same deal. In Florida those can open up a lot more quickly then in other areas. If a big void formed, the weight finally caused a tragic failure.
I also brought up the question of the buildings age and that building codes change over time. We have no way of knowing if the codes when this building was built took into consideration some of the factors building codes require today.
j/c...

Turns out I have a little inside and personal info to share.

When I went upstairs my wife was just getting off the phone with a friend she worked with at the hospital for 20 years before her recent retirement.

Her former boss and hospital administrator had a condo in that building. He is in consulting hospitals now and was in LA when the building went down, but his wife was home. He is flying back now, or maybe is already there.

Kevin(the administrator) hasn't been able to get in contact with his wife. Kevin stays in touch with my wifes friend for business reasons and they are good friends. We are actually pretty good friends with Kevin and his wife Judy. My wife was in an executive director position at the hospital and we would attend various functions that the hospital put on or sponsored.

The word is the condo was about 40 years old...so I guess it was erected maybe early to mid 80's..so it wasn't that old for a building like that.

The word we got is another structure, or tower was added at some point fairly recently( not sure what fairly means??) but that gives way to something in the construction possibly led to the failure. I believe the older section of the unit was the unit that fell, but am not sure.

Again, this is just second hand, preliminary info shared with my wife. I am just passing along what was shared.

Wow...Go figure??

Prayers for those trapped and/or injured, and for the families of those killed or missing.
It's hard to pinpoint at this time what the actual cause was. Your initial response that it may have been a sink hole seemed like the most plausible scenario, but we don't know.

That's why I brought up other possibilities. We still can't be sure but thanks for sharing the information you have.
Network news said 1981, maybe I heard 1983 for the building age when I was watching around 1pm.
Sending prayers for all involved, even the survivors. This kind of tragedy can effect someone for years. My hope is that is wasn't caused by something that had been detected and overlooked for financial reasons.
Concrete is designed to handle compressive forces.

Placed in tension it can crumble.

It is risky to build off an existing structure. Soils can settle and loads can change. That statement about the building sinking is a red flag, especially if someone tried to attach to it.

My degree is not in civil engineering, but I have been around long enough to pick up a few things.
Originally Posted By: PitDAWG
I think it's far too early to come to any conclusion at this point. However, building high rise condos and hotels on a base of sand near a shifting shoreline brings in many possible failures. Of course it can be done safely as we can all witness. But it certainly complicates things.


Watching the Today Program this morning, it was reported that there was a $15 million study that was to begin that was supposed to look at the underpinning of the building.

Not sure what that means, but it appears that they must have felt something wasn't right...
It likely means they’re going to get sued big for not doing enough, early enough. They knew it was a problem for years. Now there’s dead people. Fire up the courtroom. It’s about to get crowded.
Originally Posted By: GratefulDawg


2mm/yr over 25 years is 5cm....less than 2 inches. Is that really a smoking gun that warnings were ignored, considering margin of error? I don't think whoever posted this realizes just how tiny a millimeter is.... or hoped his readers didn't.
Most, if not all buildings settle some, and the settling that occurred doesn't mean it continued to do so over 20-30 years. It usually stops.
Originally Posted By: Ballpeen
Most, if not all buildings settle some, and the settling that occurred doesn't mean it continued to do so over 20-30 years. It usually stops.


And we don't know if any measure had ever been taken to correct the issue. All we know is there was an issue identified.

From CNN Site: https://www.cnn.com/2021/06/24/us/what-to-know-about-the-surfside-building-collapse/index.html

A study last year showed signs the building was sinking at a rate of about 2 millimeters a year between 1993 and 1999, said Shimon Wdowinski, a professor with Florida International University's Institute of Environment.

Sinking was unique to the area of Champlain Towers South, not surrounding buildings, he said. Buildings in nearby western Miami Beach, which was built on reclaimed wetlands, were moving at higher rates, "so we didn't think it was something unusual," he said.

While the sinking alone likely would not cause the tower's collapse, it could be a contributing factor because "if one part of the building moves with respect to the other, that could cause some tension and cracks," Wdowinski said.

Over the last several months, the building has undergone "thorough engineering inspections" in preparation for its 40-year certification, said Kenneth Direktor, an attorney for the condo tower residents' association, and "nothing like this was foreseeable."
Latest update has 4 deaths and 159 missing. At first I was thinking that number seems way too high since there were 55 units that collapsed... then I checked and saw that the collapse was at 1:30am.

That's terrible, most of those people were in bed asleep, not there was much chance of survival if awake. The prospect of finding anyone living among the rubble is very slim.
The longer it takes the lesser the odds of possible survival. What a tragedy to not only those who died, but to their friends and families as well. They have no choice but to hold out hope but the longer it takes to sift through the rubble the longer it will take for the grieving process to begin.
Originally Posted By: FloridaFan


And we don't know if any measure had ever been taken to correct the issue. All we know is there was an issue



Just what was the issue? That the building settled less than half an inch between 1993 and 1999? My house settles more than that between the seasons. These news stories kill me. Give the investigation some time before grabbing at straws for a story.
Originally Posted By: jfanent
Originally Posted By: FloridaFan


And we don't know if any measure had ever been taken to correct the issue. All we know is there was an issue



Just what was the issue? That the building settled less than half an inch between 1993 and 1999? My house settles more than that between the seasons. These news stories kill me. Give the investigation some time before grabbing at straws for a story.


lol, not gonna lie... I kinda jumped to the same conclusion and then read the headline about how much the building settled... then started thinking about my house wondering how long we have to run out.
Originally Posted By: oobernoober
Originally Posted By: jfanent
Originally Posted By: FloridaFan


And we don't know if any measure had ever been taken to correct the issue. All we know is there was an issue



Just what was the issue? That the building settled less than half an inch between 1993 and 1999? My house settles more than that between the seasons. These news stories kill me. Give the investigation some time before grabbing at straws for a story.


lol, not gonna lie... I kinda jumped to the same conclusion and then read the headline about how much the building settled... then started thinking about my house wondering how long we have to run out.

Me three... I quickly calculated the 2.5 inches and just shook my head. Not saying it's impossible that the sinking had a bearing, but actually, that possibility would have been built into the design and construction anyway, wouldn't you think?

I've read in other places the sinking issue was discovered in a previous investigation -- it was an investigation, it was a study of many buildings in the area.
Most of the time, you probably need not do anything.

At this point we can point to anything. My friends who lived there are Jewish as are a large percentage of the residents. Maybe it was some sort of attack that isn't apparent at this point?

I am just saying that because as of now, we can throw darts and point fingers at anything. I am sure over the course of the next weeks and months a more accurate theory or reason will surface.

Right now, it's just guess work.



I will add this link. This wasn't some cheap ass place. Not the kind of place you might suspect would fall to the ground.

Unbelievable.

https://www.miamicondoinvestments.com/champlain-towers-south-condos
so sad...
Engineer Warned of ‘Major Structural Damage’ at Florida Condo Complex
June 26, 2021in News
Engineer Warned of ‘Major Structural Damage’ at Florida Condo Complex

Three years before the deadly collapse of the Champlain Towers South condominium complex near Miami, a consultant found alarming evidence of “major structural damage” to the concrete slab below the pool deck and “abundant” cracking and crumbling of the columns, beams and walls of the parking garage under the 13-story building.

The engineer’s report helped shape plans for a multimillion-dollar repair project that was set to get underway soon — more than two and a half years after the building managers were warned — but the building suffered a catastrophic collapse in the middle of the night on Thursday, trapping sleeping residents in a massive heap of debris.


The complex’s management association had disclosed some of the problems in the wake of the collapse, but it was not until city officials released the 2018 report late Friday that the full nature of the concrete and rebar damage — most of it probably caused by years of exposure to the corrosive salt air along the South Florida coast — became chillingly apparent.

“Though some of this damage is minor, most of the concrete deterioration needs to be repaired in a timely fashion,” the consultant, Frank Morabito, wrote about damage near the base of the structure as part of his October 2018 report on the 40-year-old building in Surfside, Fla. He gave no indication that the structure was at risk of collapse, though he noted that the needed repairs would be aimed at “maintaining the structural integrity” of the building and its 136 units.

Kenneth S. Direktor, a lawyer who represents the resident-led association that operates the building, said this week that the repairs had been set to commence, based on extensive plans drawn up this year.

“They were just about to get started on it,” he said in an interview, adding that the process would have been handled much differently if owners had had any indication that the corrosion and crumbling — mild instances of which are relatively common in many coastal buildings — were a serious threat.

But Eliana Salzhauer, a Surfside commissioner, said that while the cause of the collapse was unknown, it appeared to her that the problems identified by the engineer in the 2018 report could have contributed to the structural failure.


“It’s upsetting to see these documents because the condo board was clearly made aware that there were issues,” Ms. Salzhauer said. “And it seems from the documents that the issues were not addressed.”

Investigators have yet to identify the cause and are still awaiting full access to a site where rescue crews have been urgently sifting through an unstable pile of debris for possible survivors. Experts said that the process of assessing possible failure scenarios could take months, involving a review of individual building components that may now be buried in debris, the testing of concrete to assess its integrity and an examination of the earth below to see if a sinkhole or other subsidence was responsible for the collapse.

The building was just entering a recertification process — a requirement for such 40-year-old structures that have endured the punishment of coastal Florida’s hurricanes, storm surges and the corrosive salty air that can penetrate concrete and rust the rebar and steel beams inside.

The 40-year requirement was put in place after a previous building collapse in Miami, in 1974.

Mr. Morabito, who declined to comment this week, wrote in the 2018 report that the goal of his study was to understand and document the extent of structural issues that would require repair or remediation.

“These documents will enable the Condominium Board to adequately assess the overall condition of the building, notify tenants on how they may be affected, and provide a safe and functional infrastructure for the future,” he wrote.

At the ground level of the complex, vehicles can drive in next to a pool deck where residents would lounge in the sun. Mr. Morabito in 2018 said that the waterproofing below the pool deck and entrance drive was failing, “causing major structural damage to the concrete structural slab below these areas.”

The report added that “failure to replace the waterproofing in the near future will cause the extent of the concrete deterioration to expand exponentially.” The problem, he said, was that the waterproofing was laid on a concrete slab that was flat, not sloped in a way that would allow water to run off, an issue he called a “major error” in the original design. The replacement would be “extremely expensive,” he warned, and cause a major disturbance to residents.

In the parking garage, which largely sits at the bottom level of the building, part of it under the pool deck, Mr. Morabito said that there were signs of distress and fatigue.

“Abundant cracking and spalling of varying degrees was observed in the concrete columns, beams, and walls,” Mr. Morabito wrote. He included photos of cracks in the columns of the parking garage as well as concrete crumbling — a process engineers refer to as “spalling” — that exposed steel reinforcements on the garage deck.

Mr. Morabito noted that previous attempts to patch the concrete with epoxy were failing, resulting in more cracking and spalling. In one such spot, he said, “new cracks were radiating from the originally repaired cracks.”

The report also identified a host of other problems: Residents were complaining of water coming through their windows and balcony doors, and the concrete on many balconies also was deteriorating.

After watching a surveillance video showing the collapse of the building, Evan Bentz, a professor at the University of Toronto and an expert in structural concrete, said that whatever had caused the collapse would have to have been somewhere near the bottom of the building, perhaps around the parking level. Though he had not seen the 2018 report at the time, he said such a collapse could have several possible explanations, including a design mistake, a materials problem, a construction error or a maintenance error.

“I’d be surprised if there was just one cause,” Mr. Bentz said. “There would have to be multiple causes for it to have fallen like that.”

There have been other concerns raised about the complex over the years. One resident filed a lawsuit in 2015 alleging that poor maintenance had allowed water to enter her unit through cracks in an outside wall. Some residents expressed concern that blasting during construction at a neighboring complex had rattled their units.

Researchers analyzing space-based radar had also identified land that was sinking at the property in the 1990s. The 2020 study found subsidence in other areas of the region, but on the east side of the barrier island where Surfside is, the condo complex was the only place where the issue was detected.

Proposed in the late 1970s, the Champlain Towers South project had its architectural and structural designs completed in 1979, according to records. At the time, people were flocking to live and play in South Florida, and developers were looking to build larger complexes that could put people right at the beachfront.

A nearly identical companion property — Champlain Towers North — was built the same year, a few hundred yards up the beach. It was not immediately clear whether any of the issues raised by the engineer in the south project had also been found in the other buildings.

Surfside’s mayor, Charles W. Burkett, said on Friday that he was worried about the stability of the north building but did not feel “philosophically comfortable” ordering people to evacuate.

“I can’t tell you, I can’t assure you, that the building is safe,” he said at a town commission meeting.

The collapse has stunned industry experts in the Miami area, including John Pistorino, a consulting engineer who designed the 40-year reinspection program when he was consulting for the county in the 1970s.

He touted other regulations that have come since, including requirements that tall buildings have an independent engineer verify that construction is going according to plans.

Mr. Pistorino did not want to speculate on the cause of the collapse. But he said that while some buildings in the region have had quality problems, any serious deficiencies were unusual, and were typically easy to detect by way of glaring cracks or other visible problems.

“This is so out of the norm,” Mr. Pistorino said. “This is something I cannot fathom or understand what happened.”
https://dnyuz.com/2021/06/26/engineer-warned-of-major-structural-damage-at-florida-condo-complex/
I smell a lawsuit coming.
Sniff, sniff.

https://www.nbcmiami.com/news/local/laws...llapse/2480915/
Originally Posted By: PortlandDawg
I smell a lawsuit coming.



No doubt, and there should. The only real question is who all will be named.
Fyi.....

If there is some sort of design flaw, it would be in both.

Chances are it isn't a design flaw, but rather in the construction, materials, or something specific to the building that fell.

That said, if I lived there I would like someone to come take a look. In the mean time, I might just stick my butt in a hotel for a week or two.

That is money I wouldn't want to spend, but better than taking a ride on top and below of building decks. Geez....hard to believe a friend was in that mess.
https://news.sky.com/story/miami-buildin...=snt-sf-twitter
This was the first thing I thought of. There are many areas around Norfolk/Chesapeake Bay, parts of Florida, New Orleans, New York/New Jersey, etc that have been having trouble with sea salt water and sunny day flooding for quite some time. And it is only getting worse.

https://www.palmbeachpost.com/story/weat...pse/7779816002/

Could the increasing assault of king tides and sea level rise have contributed to Miami condo collapse?
Kimberly Miller
Palm Beach Post







Saltwater and brine-soaked air settle into the pores of coastal construction, growing a rusty crust around the steel skeletons that reinforce oceanfront structures. It weakens the bonds between metal and concrete creating cracks and crumbles in vulnerable areas.

Some building experts wondered if that kind of environmental assault supercharged by climate change could have played a role in the catastrophic collapse at the 40-year-old Champlain Towers South Condo in Surfside, Fla.

“Sea level rise does cause potential corrosion and if that was happening, it’s possible it could not handle the weight of the building,” said Zhong-Ren Peng, professor and Director of University of Florida’s International Center for Adaptation Planning and Design. “I think this could be a wakeup call for coastal developments.”

Sea level rise, the gurgle of more frequent king tide flooding, and changes in soil consistency or location are elements dealt with by any building on a barrier island.


Collapsed Miami condo had been sinkinginto Earth as early as the 1990s, researchers say

Latest updates on the condo collapse: At least 4 people dead, 159 unaccounted for

Building collapse:'Third World' building collapse front page news in Latin America

And below the surface — beneath parking garages — the twice-daily pressure of the tides on groundwater could keep a building’s foundation wet and on an uneven footing.


The invisible machinations that can weaken a building’s integrity
The Champlain Towers South Condo has a plump renourished beach and dune to assuage a direct ocean charge and is four blocks from Biscayne Bay.

Still, Albert Slap, president of Boca Raton-based RiskFootprint, said it can be invisible machinations — the push and pull of tides on limestone bedrock — combined with rising seas that can weaken a building’s integrity.


RiskFootprint provides assessments for private homeowners and business developments that includes looking at threats from sea level rise, king tides — so-called “sunny day” flooding — and storm surge.

“Even if when the building was built in 1981 the foundation was dry most of the time, with sea level rise pushing groundwater up to the surface, the foundation could be wet enough long enough to soften the concrete,” Slap said. “Many of these buildings with underground parking have sump pumps running and that means the foundation is in the water.”


Building official of Surfside:Condo was on roof 14 hours before structure collapsed

Related:Engineer who probed FIU bridge collapse to investigate Surfside condo

A 2019 analysis by the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration found that high tide flooding the previous year broke records at more than a dozen locations, including Miami and Cedar Key on the Gulf Coast.

At the same time global sea-level rise is about 1 inch every eight years.


Sea-level rise in South Florida
Between 2000 and 2017 alone, sea-level rise at the Key West tide gauge measured about 3.9 inches, according to the Southeast Regional Climate Change Compact's 2019 sea-level rise report.

South Florida's coastal waters could jump 10 to 17 inches by 2040 and 21 to 54 inches by 2070 above the 2000 mean sea level in Key West. The long-term sea-level rise is predicted to be 40 to 136 inches by 2120, the report says. The compact stresses that South Florida's sea-level rise could be faster than the global rate because of a slowing of the Gulf Stream current.

Heartbreaking imagescapture the Surfside building collapse and rescue efforts

“Climate change can play a role,” said Atorod Azizinamini, chair of Florida International University’s College of Engineering. “It can cause settlement of the ground with sea level rise, and corrosion.”

Buildings can be designed to withstand anything anywhere. You can have a high rise building in the middle of the ocean, Azizinamini said. But in the 1980s, the subtle creep of rising seas was likely less of a concern.

Cousins Andrea and Nellie Gonzalez wait for news at a family reunification center, after a wing of a 12-story beachfront condo building collapsed, Thursday, June 24, 2021, in the Surfside area of Miami. They are vacationing from Wisconsin and had to be evacuated from a nearby building. (AP Photo/Lynne Sladky)
A Florida International University study on the building found that it had been sinking since the 1990s at a rate of about 2 millimeters a year. FIU Department of Earth and Environment Professor Shimon Wdowinski was lead author on a report published in Science Direct on subsidence — land sinking — in Miami Beach and Norfolk, VA.

The report notes the Champlain only as a "12-story building."


“The main message now is we don’t want to rush to conclusions,” said Azizinamini. “Let the investigation happen and we can learn from our mistakes.”

Investigation into collapse could take months
Eugenio Santiago, a structural engineer and former chief building official at the Village of Key Biscayne, isn’t convinced rising seas or wet concrete had anything to do with Thursday’s collapse.

He said the way the building “pancaked” makes him think it was the failure of a column holding up a slab of floor. When it fails, one slab punches through to the next in a chain reaction until it reaches the ground.

If the building was undergoing roof work, as Surfside Mayor Charles Burkett said on NBC’s Today show, it’s possible heavy materials could have been placed improperly, causing the failure.


“It would be very rare to have a building with that much corrosion and no one saw it,” Santiago said about a link to saltwater and sea level rise. “To have that kind of corrosive damage, someone would have said something or seen something.”

At 40 years old, the building was undergoing a required recertification.

Madasamy Arockiasamy, director of the Center for Infrastructure and Constructed Facilities at Florida Atlantic University, said the settling noted by FIU could be one reason for the collapse. He doesn’t believe climate change had a direct impact, instead agreeing with Santiago that it could have been caused by heavy equipment on the roof.

Roofs are designed to hold a very specific amount of weight. He noted air conditioning units on Champlain's roof and said it would generally be built to withstand some light roof construction.


“The video shows the middle portion of the roof collapses followed by the sides,” Arockiasamy said. “More bending means you stress the concrete beyond its tensile capacity.”

There are older buildings on the same barrier island with Surfside that have not suffered the kind of structural breakdown that happened at Champlain Towers, but Slap said buildings deal with geologic and environmental situations differently.

Azizinamini agreed.

"You can have two buildings next to each other, one made a mistake in design and the other didn't," he said. "It's natural for people to try to identify right away what happened, but that's not the scientific approach."

Azizinamini said the investigation could take months with everything from corrosion to nearby construction analyzed for its potential role in the devastation.
What I can say is that salt water is very corrosive to the steel rebar that reinforces the structure within the concrete. Concrete absorbs water which allows the salt water to saturate the concrete and as a result, get to the steel rebar. That is never good. Sea levels are rising and they are already trying to come up with a plan to battle against it in Miami. The long term prognosis isn't good.

I've seen a report that residents claim the underground parking garage was always wet. Puddles on days when it didn't even rain. Now whether that was fresh water or salt water from the ground I have no idea. But if in fact it was salt water from rising sea levels it may explain at least a part of what happened.

For the age of that concrete there has been a lot of spalling reported. It's a sign of concrete deterioration. That can often be a sign of the corrosion of embedded steel (rebar)
A High water table will want to lift a structure. There were plenty of signs that are red flags in retrospect.

The challenge will be to figure out if other buildings are at risk, and what construction techniques should be used.

The structures in Florida should be robust because of wind. But the footings may have been part of the problem..
Originally Posted By: Ballpeen
Most, if not all buildings settle some, and the settling that occurred doesn't mean it continued to do so over 20-30 years. It usually stops.


Maybe, if you don't live on a sandbar
Originally Posted By: Damanshot
Originally Posted By: Ballpeen
Most, if not all buildings settle some, and the settling that occurred doesn't mean it continued to do so over 20-30 years. It usually stops.


Maybe, if you don't live on a sandbar


Possibly.

The reality is large buildings have been constructed along the shores of the world for a long time without falling down. No doubt many aren't sandy as in Florida, but many are.

Normal settling shouldn't be a problem. Obviously something in this case went above "normal", be it continued settling, natural causes, or manmade failure of some sort.

In the end I suspect it will be a little of all of the above. Something caused the bowels of that building to fail in a critical manner.

Still no word on Judy, the wife of our friend who was in the building at the time it collapsed.

My wife who has kept close to a few who are in the loop so to speak say the husband and children have faced the reality that rescue realistically isn't in the cards and hasn't been for several days.

Sad deal.
Sorry to hear that Peen. How sad.
That's terrible to hear. Prayers for their family.
I hate to hear the news that someone you know is more than likely a victim of the collapse. Prayers go out to the family.
First let me say I'm very sorry that a family friend of yours may end up being a victim.. That is indeed sad news.. Hope for the best for those folks.

Yeah, I'm aware that buildings settle..
Thanks. They weren't close personal friends, but I knew them well enough that if I saw them out on the street we would stop and chat for several minutes. As I said in a post early on, the woman was the wife of the hospital CEO where my wife worked for 20-25 years. My wife wrote most of his comments and speeches, advised on media relations and things of that nature. Thus, we attended many functions on a social yet professional level with the two of them.

Just hard to believe.
j/c

North Miami Beach condo building evacuated after review finds unsafe conditions

July 2, 2021 / 9:32 PM / AP

The city of North Miami Beach ordered the evacuation of a condominium building Friday after a review found unsafe conditions about five miles from the site of last week's deadly collapse in South Florida. An audit prompted by the collapse of Champlain Towers South in nearby Surfside found that the 156-unit Crestview Towers had been deemed structurally and electrically unsafe months ago, the city said in a news release.

"In an abundance of caution, the City ordered the building closed immediately and the residents evacuated for their protection, while a full structural assessment is conducted and next steps are determined," City Manager Arthur H. Sorey III said in the news release.

The evacuation comes as municipal officials in South Florida, and statewide, are scrutinizing older high-rises in the wake of the Surfside collapse to ensure that substantial structural problems are not being ignored.

Evacuating residents hauling suitcases packed items into cars Friday evening outside the Crestview, which was built in 1972.

North Miami Beach commissioner Fortuna Smukler rushed to the building Friday afternoon. She said authorities were working to help the evacuated residents find places to go. She said with the approaching storm it was an especially stressful time for the residents. Smukler knows two people who are still unaccounted for in the Surfside building collapse.

"I ran here right away because this is important to me. I needed to ensure that what happened in Surfside doesn't happen here," she said. "It could have been our building instead of Surfside."

The mayor of Miami-Dade County had suggested an audit of buildings 40 years and older to make sure they are in compliance with the local recertification process after the condo building collapse last week that killed at least 22 people and left more than 120 still missing.

After reviewing files, the city Building and Zoning Department sent a notification that the Crestview building was not in compliance. On Friday, the building manager submitted a January recertification report in which an engineer hired by the condo association board found the property unsafe. The city then ordered all residents to evacuate immediately.

"I am concerned that more buildings are in this condition. Hopefully, this is an easy fix. Thankfully, we have at least evacuated the residents and no harm will come to them or their pets," Smukler said.

The Crestview condo association could not be immediately reached for comment on the delay between the January recertification report and Friday's evacuation.

The North Miami Beach Police Department was helping with the evacuation.

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/crestview-towers-north-miami-beach-evacuation/
58 Story building in San Fran has sunk 18" and tilted

https://www.cnn.com/2021/07/05/us/san-francisco-millennium-tower-sinking/index.html
Okay, maybe this shouldn't be the one thing said in the article that stands out to me the most, yet it does.

Quote:
But, since it opened, the hulking blue-gray tower has sunk 18 inches into the soft downtown soil on which it was built -- and it's tilting, according to the Millennium's current engineer, Ronald Hamburger.


Yes, the fact the building has sank that much in a little over ten years is alarming. The fact that it's tilting could end up being catastrophic. Yes it gives it credibility that the buildings current engineer is the one who is reporting it.

But beyond all of that, could you imagine having the name Ronald Hamburger? The only thing worse would be if your middle name was McDonald!
Sometimes names given to a reporter are not real names.

I have a buddy who was interviewed a few years ago. He didn't want to do the interview, and when the reporter wanted his name, and he told her it was "Hank Pym". (from the Ant Man movies)

It went to press, and then she found out he gave her a fake name. He said she was really ...... umm ... ticked off. rofl
RONALD O. HAMBURGER

https://www.atcouncil.org/pdfs/hamburgerbio.pdf

Not this time.
Miami Beach apartment building evacuated due to concrete deterioration
The building is at least the fourth in Florida to be evacuated or partially evacuated since the partial collapse of the Champlain Towers South condo building. AP
July 13, 2021, 10:00 AM EDT / Updated July 13, 2021, 1:15 PM EDT
By Elisha Fieldstadt

A Miami Beach apartment building was evacuated by the city Monday due to concrete deterioration, an attorney for the building owners said.

The building at 6881 Indian Creek Drive is at least the fourth in Florida to be evacuated or partially evacuated since the partial collapse of the Champlain Towers South condo building in Surfside last month.

Two days after that collapse on June 24, Miami-Dade County Mayor Daniella Levine Cava ordered an audit of buildings in the county that are five stories or higher and at or near 40 years old. She encouraged municipalities to do the same, offering the county's support.

Levine Cava said the audit should be completed within 30 days.

The Indian Creek Drive apartment building is 82 years old and two floors high. Miami Beach officials did not immediately respond to requests for comment Tuesday about what prompted the most recent review of the building that led to the evacuation.

Manny J. Vadillo, who represents the owners of 6881 Indian Creek Drive, told NBC News that the city of Miami Beach on Monday posted a notice to vacate the property.

The owners of the building, he said, have been "diligently" working with the city since they decided in May to demolish the building by December. They started to "vacate the building in an orderly fashion," according to Vadillo.

Fourteen people, half of which were paying rent, remained in the building, he said. Miami Beach is giving those tenants through the end of the week to evacuate, and the building's owners are helping them move, he said.

"My clients are extremely sensitive to safety and, in fact, visited the property several times since last week to speak with tenants when communications started with the city to ensure tenants were not caught by surprise," Vadillo said. "Some tenants have been there many years."

Earlier this month, evacuations were ordered for residents of the Crestview Towers Condominiums in North Miami Beach after building officials determined it was also unsafe.

Ninety-four people were confirmed dead in the Champlain Towers South collapse as of Monday.

Investigators have not determined what caused half the building to flatten in the middle of the night.

Documents released after the collapse included a 2018 report that highlighted an engineer's concerns that the building had "major structural damage." The engineer said his findings showed that there was "abundant cracking" and crumbling in the parking garage.

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/mia...?soc_src=aolapp
I wasn't going to bump the thread, but our friend was recovered on Monday. Her funeral was yesterday. No real details.
This is awful.
I'm sorry you lost your friend to this.
Sorry to hear that Peen. May God bless and comfort your friend's family and friends.
My prayers and condolences, Peen. How horrible.
Thanks.

Again, Judy wasn't a close personal friend by any means, but more than a passing acquaintance.

It's still hard to believe than someone we knew was in that mess.
So sorry to hear this Peen.
That really sucks, man. So sorry to hear that.
May they rest in peace..

FYI.....the Discovery Channel(DSCHD) has a show on tonight at 8p and and on again" at 12am titled "When Buildings Collapse: Disaster in Surfside". DVRs all set.

I'd imagine we'd have already heard about any new "revelations and/or the why's" of the tragedy.
... Added to library - thanks!
'Save lives, not just money': Surfside collapse grand jury report calls for reforms, warns of further troubles
Romina Ruiz-Goiriena
Rick Jervis
USA TODAY

MIAMI – A Miami-Dade County grand jury charged with looking into the deadly Florida building collapse said the state must pass sweeping reforms to avoid similar tragedies.

Among the recommendations included in the 43-page report:

A county ordinance requiring the recertification of buildings every 10 to 15 years instead of every 40 years, which should be extended statewide.
Mandating periodic inspections before recertification inspections are accepted.
Removing a provision of the Florida Condominium Act that allows condo boards to waive their obligation to fund reserves for building repairs.

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The report came almost six months after the 12-story, 136-unit Champlain Towers South building collapsed in Surfside, Florida, killing 98 people and sending shockwaves around the world.

The grand jury's findings are the first to be released amid a patchwork of federal, local and privately led investigations looking to determine what led to the building's demise. Grand juries in Miami-Dade are used for more than criminal indictments, also exploring broader issues of public health and safety.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news...llapse-condo-safety-released/8906682002/
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