DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Everything Else... Live Updates: 51 unaccounted for after deadly high-rise collapse in Florida

Dozens of people were unaccounted for after portions of a condo building north of Miami Beach collapsed early Thursday, killing at least one person. Miami-Dade County Commissioner Sally Heyman told CBS News 51 of the building's residents are unaccounted for.

Surfside, Florida, Mayor Charles Burkett said two people were taken to a hospital and one of them died. Miami-Dade Assistant Fire Chief Ray Jadallah said 10 people were treated at the scene of the huge pile of rubble.

Dozens of fire-rescue units responded to the collapse. CBS Miami says rescuers are desperately trying to reach trapped residents. Some may be stuck in the rubble, the station says, adding that firefighters used truck-mounted ladders to reach people stuck on balconies. They also did a floor by floor search.

It was a high-rise condominium building called Champlain Towers South, CBS Miami reports.

Miami-Dade Fire Rescue tweeted that it had more than 80 units there along with units from municipal fire departments. Miami Beach Police tweeted that "multiple police and fire agencies from across Miami-Dade" were assisting.

Florida Power & Light says it cut electricity to about 400 customers in the vicinity.

A family reunification center was set up nearby for anyone looking for unaccounted for relatives.

A man who was evacuated from a nearby hotel said, "The building – one of these huge buildings – gone! … The building – it's gone. … The whole building's gone. … Oh my gosh. This is the most insane thing I've ever seen in my life."

https://www.cbsnews.com/live-updates/florida-building-collapse-surfside/

OMG,, That's scary as hell....

OMG,, That's scary as hell.... Showed it to my wife and he first thought was was that it reminded her of 9/11 when the towers came down... Obviously, much less damaging of course.

I thought it resembled the implosion of a Vegas hotel that I witnessed...

Just devastating. Hopefully they can locate survivors as quickly as possible as there are some major storms coming in.

How could something be so structurally defective without any evidence?

This is a tragedy it's a loss of life, it's a Massive loss of life it's terrible it's a sad day.

Maybe a sinkhole under it collapsed?

j/c...

I think it's far too early to come to any conclusion at this point. However, building high rise condos and hotels on a base of sand near a shifting shoreline brings in many possible failures. Of course it can be done safely as we can all witness. But it certainly complicates things.

Not trying to finger-point at all, but you have to wonder what the fallout of this is going to be for the area. What does this mean for the rest of the building or the adjacent buildings? Are the building codes historically lax, and if they are do we expect to see more of this is the surrounding areas?

I do know that building codes and requirements change and are updated over time. I can think of many examples where they're more stringent from learning about how they weren't comprehensive enough. I can't think of a single example of them being made more lax.

It could be possible to find out when this building was built and what improvements have been added to the building codes since that time to get some clue as to what may have gone wrong.

Often times failures can be tied to cutting corners in building materials which were not up to the engineers specifications, approved plans and or codes. Whether that ends up being connected to poor inspections or something more sinister is often never solved.

Prayers for them.

That was my first thought.

You noted it, but there are thousands of condos, buildings on shoreline all around the world. That isn't a real issue.

I wonder how old the building was? I am sure that is being reported.

I am no engineer, but there are components inside that may not be exposed that failed for one reason or another...maybe years ago and the weight finally caused it to pancake down.

As portland noted, and it was my first thought, possible a sink hole developed at some point and caused the same deal. In Florida those can open up a lot more quickly then in other areas. If a big void formed, the weight finally caused a tragic failure.

I also brought up the question of the buildings age and that building codes change over time. We have no way of knowing if the codes when this building was built took into consideration some of the factors building codes require today.

j/c...

Turns out I have a little inside and personal info to share.

When I went upstairs my wife was just getting off the phone with a friend she worked with at the hospital for 20 years before her recent retirement.

Her former boss and hospital administrator had a condo in that building. He is in consulting hospitals now and was in LA when the building went down, but his wife was home. He is flying back now, or maybe is already there.

Kevin(the administrator) hasn't been able to get in contact with his wife. Kevin stays in touch with my wifes friend for business reasons and they are good friends. We are actually pretty good friends with Kevin and his wife Judy. My wife was in an executive director position at the hospital and we would attend various functions that the hospital put on or sponsored.

The word is the condo was about 40 years old...so I guess it was erected maybe early to mid 80's..so it wasn't that old for a building like that.

The word we got is another structure, or tower was added at some point fairly recently( not sure what fairly means??) but that gives way to something in the construction possibly led to the failure. I believe the older section of the unit was the unit that fell, but am not sure.

Again, this is just second hand, preliminary info shared with my wife. I am just passing along what was shared.

Wow...Go figure??

Prayers for those trapped and/or injured, and for the families of those killed or missing.

It's hard to pinpoint at this time what the actual cause was. Your initial response that it may have been a sink hole seemed like the most plausible scenario, but we don't know.

That's why I brought up other possibilities. We still can't be sure but thanks for sharing the information you have.

Network news said 1981, maybe I heard 1983 for the building age when I was watching around 1pm.

Sending prayers for all involved, even the survivors. This kind of tragedy can effect someone for years. My hope is that is wasn't caused by something that had been detected and overlooked for financial reasons.

Concrete is designed to handle compressive forces.

Placed in tension it can crumble.

It is risky to build off an existing structure. Soils can settle and loads can change. That statement about the building sinking is a red flag, especially if someone tried to attach to it.

My degree is not in civil engineering, but I have been around long enough to pick up a few things.

Watching the Today Program this morning, it was reported that there was a $15 million study that was to begin that was supposed to look at the underpinning of the building.

Not sure what that means, but it appears that they must have felt something wasn't right...

It likely means they’re going to get sued big for not doing enough, early enough. They knew it was a problem for years. Now there’s dead people. Fire up the courtroom. It’s about to get crowded.

2mm/yr over 25 years is 5cm....less than 2 inches. Is that really a smoking gun that warnings were ignored, considering margin of error? I don't think whoever posted this realizes just how tiny a millimeter is.... or hoped his readers didn't.

Most, if not all buildings settle some, and the settling that occurred doesn't mean it continued to do so over 20-30 years. It usually stops.

And we don't know if any measure had ever been taken to correct the issue. All we know is there was an issue identified.

From CNN Site: https://www.cnn.com/2021/06/24/us/what-to-know-about-the-surfside-building-collapse/index.html

A study last year showed signs the building was sinking at a rate of about 2 millimeters a year between 1993 and 1999, said Shimon Wdowinski, a professor with Florida International University's Institute of Environment.

Sinking was unique to the area of Champlain Towers South, not surrounding buildings, he said. Buildings in nearby western Miami Beach, which was built on reclaimed wetlands, were moving at higher rates, "so we didn't think it was something unusual," he said.

While the sinking alone likely would not cause the tower's collapse, it could be a contributing factor because "if one part of the building moves with respect to the other, that could cause some tension and cracks," Wdowinski said.

Over the last several months, the building has undergone "thorough engineering inspections" in preparation for its 40-year certification, said Kenneth Direktor, an attorney for the condo tower residents' association, and "nothing like this was foreseeable."

Latest update has 4 deaths and 159 missing. At first I was thinking that number seems way too high since there were 55 units that collapsed... then I checked and saw that the collapse was at 1:30am.

That's terrible, most of those people were in bed asleep, not there was much chance of survival if awake. The prospect of finding anyone living among the rubble is very slim.

The longer it takes the lesser the odds of possible survival. What a tragedy to not only those who died, but to their friends and families as well. They have no choice but to hold out hope but the longer it takes to sift through the rubble the longer it will take for the grieving process to begin.

Just what was the issue? That the building settled less than half an inch between 1993 and 1999? My house settles more than that between the seasons. These news stories kill me. Give the investigation some time before grabbing at straws for a story.

lol, not gonna lie... I kinda jumped to the same conclusion and then read the headline about how much the building settled... then started thinking about my house wondering how long we have to run out.

Me three... I quickly calculated the 2.5 inches and just shook my head. Not saying it's impossible that the sinking had a bearing, but actually, that possibility would have been built into the design and construction anyway, wouldn't you think?

I've read in other places the sinking issue was discovered in a previous investigation -- it was an investigation, it was a study of many buildings in the area.

Most of the time, you probably need not do anything.

At this point we can point to anything. My friends who lived there are Jewish as are a large percentage of the residents. Maybe it was some sort of attack that isn't apparent at this point?

I am just saying that because as of now, we can throw darts and point fingers at anything. I am sure over the course of the next weeks and months a more accurate theory or reason will surface.

Right now, it's just guess work.



I will add this link. This wasn't some cheap ass place. Not the kind of place you might suspect would fall to the ground.

Unbelievable.

https://www.miamicondoinvestments.com/champlain-towers-south-condos

so sad...

Engineer Warned of ‘Major Structural Damage’ at Florida Condo Complex
June 26, 2021in News
Engineer Warned of ‘Major Structural Damage’ at Florida Condo Complex

Three years before the deadly collapse of the Champlain Towers South condominium complex near Miami, a consultant found alarming evidence of “major structural damage” to the concrete slab below the pool deck and “abundant” cracking and crumbling of the columns, beams and walls of the parking garage under the 13-story building.

The engineer’s report helped shape plans for a multimillion-dollar repair project that was set to get underway soon — more than two and a half years after the building managers were warned — but the building suffered a catastrophic collapse in the middle of the night on Thursday, trapping sleeping residents in a massive heap of debris.


The complex’s management association had disclosed some of the problems in the wake of the collapse, but it was not until city officials released the 2018 report late Friday that the full nature of the concrete and rebar damage — most of it probably caused by years of exposure to the corrosive salt air along the South Florida coast — became chillingly apparent.

“Though some of this damage is minor, most of the concrete deterioration needs to be repaired in a timely fashion,” the consultant, Frank Morabito, wrote about damage near the base of the structure as part of his October 2018 report on the 40-year-old building in Surfside, Fla. He gave no indication that the structure was at risk of collapse, though he noted that the needed repairs would be aimed at “maintaining the structural integrity” of the building and its 136 units.

Kenneth S. Direktor, a lawyer who represents the resident-led association that operates the building, said this week that the repairs had been set to commence, based on extensive plans drawn up this year.

“They were just about to get started on it,” he said in an interview, adding that the process would have been handled much differently if owners had had any indication that the corrosion and crumbling — mild instances of which are relatively common in many coastal buildings — were a serious threat.

But Eliana Salzhauer, a Surfside commissioner, said that while the cause of the collapse was unknown, it appeared to her that the problems identified by the engineer in the 2018 report could have contributed to the structural failure.


“It’s upsetting to see these documents because the condo board was clearly made aware that there were issues,” Ms. Salzhauer said. “And it seems from the documents that the issues were not addressed.”

Investigators have yet to identify the cause and are still awaiting full access to a site where rescue crews have been urgently sifting through an unstable pile of debris for possible survivors. Experts said that the process of assessing possible failure scenarios could take months, involving a review of individual building components that may now be buried in debris, the testing of concrete to assess its integrity and an examination of the earth below to see if a sinkhole or other subsidence was responsible for the collapse.

The building was just entering a recertification process — a requirement for such 40-year-old structures that have endured the punishment of coastal Florida’s hurricanes, storm surges and the corrosive salty air that can penetrate concrete and rust the rebar and steel beams inside.

The 40-year requirement was put in place after a previous building collapse in Miami, in 1974.

Mr. Morabito, who declined to comment this week, wrote in the 2018 report that the goal of his study was to understand and document the extent of structural issues that would require repair or remediation.

“These documents will enable the Condominium Board to adequately assess the overall condition of the building, notify tenants on how they may be affected, and provide a safe and functional infrastructure for the future,” he wrote.

At the ground level of the complex, vehicles can drive in next to a pool deck where residents would lounge in the sun. Mr. Morabito in 2018 said that the waterproofing below the pool deck and entrance drive was failing, “causing major structural damage to the concrete structural slab below these areas.”

The report added that “failure to replace the waterproofing in the near future will cause the extent of the concrete deterioration to expand exponentially.” The problem, he said, was that the waterproofing was laid on a concrete slab that was flat, not sloped in a way that would allow water to run off, an issue he called a “major error” in the original design. The replacement would be “extremely expensive,” he warned, and cause a major disturbance to residents.

In the parking garage, which largely sits at the bottom level of the building, part of it under the pool deck, Mr. Morabito said that there were signs of distress and fatigue.

“Abundant cracking and spalling of varying degrees was observed in the concrete columns, beams, and walls,” Mr. Morabito wrote. He included photos of cracks in the columns of the parking garage as well as concrete crumbling — a process engineers refer to as “spalling” — that exposed steel reinforcements on the garage deck.

Mr. Morabito noted that previous attempts to patch the concrete with epoxy were failing, resulting in more cracking and spalling. In one such spot, he said, “new cracks were radiating from the originally repaired cracks.”

The report also identified a host of other problems: Residents were complaining of water coming through their windows and balcony doors, and the concrete on many balconies also was deteriorating.

After watching a surveillance video showing the collapse of the building, Evan Bentz, a professor at the University of Toronto and an expert in structural concrete, said that whatever had caused the collapse would have to have been somewhere near the bottom of the building, perhaps around the parking level. Though he had not seen the 2018 report at the time, he said such a collapse could have several possible explanations, including a design mistake, a materials problem, a construction error or a maintenance error.

“I’d be surprised if there was just one cause,” Mr. Bentz said. “There would have to be multiple causes for it to have fallen like that.”

There have been other concerns raised about the complex over the years. One resident filed a lawsuit in 2015 alleging that poor maintenance had allowed water to enter her unit through cracks in an outside wall. Some residents expressed concern that blasting during construction at a neighboring complex had rattled their units.

Researchers analyzing space-based radar had also identified land that was sinking at the property in the 1990s. The 2020 study found subsidence in other areas of the region, but on the east side of the barrier island where Surfside is, the condo complex was the only place where the issue was detected.

Proposed in the late 1970s, the Champlain Towers South project had its architectural and structural designs completed in 1979, according to records. At the time, people were flocking to live and play in South Florida, and developers were looking to build larger complexes that could put people right at the beachfront.

A nearly identical companion property — Champlain Towers North — was built the same year, a few hundred yards up the beach. It was not immediately clear whether any of the issues raised by the engineer in the south project had also been found in the other buildings.

Surfside’s mayor, Charles W. Burkett, said on Friday that he was worried about the stability of the north building but did not feel “philosophically comfortable” ordering people to evacuate.

“I can’t tell you, I can’t assure you, that the building is safe,” he said at a town commission meeting.

The collapse has stunned industry experts in the Miami area, including John Pistorino, a consulting engineer who designed the 40-year reinspection program when he was consulting for the county in the 1970s.

He touted other regulations that have come since, including requirements that tall buildings have an independent engineer verify that construction is going according to plans.

Mr. Pistorino did not want to speculate on the cause of the collapse. But he said that while some buildings in the region have had quality problems, any serious deficiencies were unusual, and were typically easy to detect by way of glaring cracks or other visible problems.

“This is so out of the norm,” Mr. Pistorino said. “This is something I cannot fathom or understand what happened.”
https://dnyuz.com/2021/06/26/engineer-warned-of-major-structural-damage-at-florida-condo-complex/

I smell a lawsuit coming.

Sniff, sniff.

https://www.nbcmiami.com/news/local/laws...llapse/2480915/

No doubt, and there should. The only real question is who all will be named.

Fyi.....

If there is some sort of design flaw, it would be in both.

Chances are it isn't a design flaw, but rather in the construction, materials, or something specific to the building that fell.

That said, if I lived there I would like someone to come take a look. In the mean time, I might just stick my butt in a hotel for a week or two.

That is money I wouldn't want to spend, but better than taking a ride on top and below of building decks. Geez....hard to believe a friend was in that mess.