Kyler Murray Picks Football over Baseball

For those of you wondering what it takes to get a millenial into baseball? At least 2 million a year.

If it were me, I'd probably choose baseball. Bigger money, better guarantees, less/no contact, longer career probability and you play mostly in the summer. However, being a QB for an NFL team would be rad.

Smart. He'll make more guaranteed money in the short term going the NFL route.

Murray will probably on the first two QBs taken. He obviously likes football more. Good for him.

(The Athletics are getting royall screwed, but they knew the risk.)

How come he only had to return 1.29 of the 1.5 mil?

Originally Posted By: Punchsmack

If it were me, I'd probably choose baseball. Bigger money, better guarantees, less/no contact, longer career probability and you play mostly in the summer. However, being a QB for an NFL team would be rad.

It's certainly interesting. On one hand, every skill player who has signed a contract extension always expresses that he'd rather play baseball instead. Now Kyler plays at the most expensive position in football not in baseball. There's also the question of if baseball can survive paying players 200 mil over a few years with a dying fan base. By the time Murray is ready for a big contract, there's a good chance that baseball is the 3rd most popular spring/summer sport with soccer and other football leagues taking into its market share.

Kyler Murray is listed as 5'11"
Dwayne Haskins is listed as 6'3"

Does it really look like, from chin to top of head, that Haskins whole head is only 4 inches in height?

Murray should have picked baseball..He's 5'8 if he's 10ft. I guess this is his choice, and baseball could be a fall back.

GREAT NEWS if he goes before 17 ...

Smart move... he try football.. if he bombs he goes back to baseball in a few years...

Potential overall income..................NFL quarterback or MLB outfielder?

The choice was easy.

Add to that the life of a minor league player is BRUTAL and i mean BRUTAL ....

A ball and double A ball are absolutely brutal lifestyles ... triple a is better but it ain’t no picnic either ...

Exactly.

Riding busses vs flying first class. No contest.

And then, the dude will make more in endorsement money in the NFL than he will make in salary.

Originally Posted By: jaybird

Smart move... he try football.. if he bombs he goes back to baseball in a few years...

He should've pulled a Brandon Weeden and go to be an NFL QB after he has an aggravated elbow injury that forces him to retire from the MLB.'

I know we have Baker, and maybe it's from the pain of never experiencing a franchise QB before or the calls for BPA, but if he's there at 17, I seriously consider taking him. I think Murray will be a good football player depending on where he goes.

Originally Posted By: CHSDawg

I know we have Baker, and maybe it's from the pain of never experiencing a franchise QB before or the calls for BPA, but if he's there at 17, I seriously consider taking him. I think Murray will be a good football player depending on where he goes.

Knight of Brown, is that you?

Originally Posted By: Versatile Dog

Potential overall income..................NFL quarterback or MLB outfielder?

The choice was easy.

Depends on how good he is. Giancarlo Stanton got $325 million fully guaranteed. An above-average MLB outfielder makes a little less per year than an NFL QB.

I think Murray chose football because he prefers football. Coming out of high school he refused entry into the MLB draft and now this latest decision.

Originally Posted By: cfrs15

Originally Posted By: CHSDawg

I know we have Baker, and maybe it's from the pain of never experiencing a franchise QB before or the calls for BPA, but if he's there at 17, I seriously consider taking him. I think Murray will be a good football player depending on where he goes.

Knight of Brown, is that you?

Go back in his thread and check who wanted to draft Kyler Murray. Let's just say that my plan is slowly coming to fruition.

I don't want to say I'm an evil mastermind, but...

Originally Posted By: CHSDawg

Originally Posted By: cfrs15

Originally Posted By: CHSDawg

I know we have Baker, and maybe it's from the pain of never experiencing a franchise QB before or the calls for BPA, but if he's there at 17, I seriously consider taking him. I think Murray will be a good football player depending on where he goes.

Knight of Brown, is that you?

Go back in his thread and check who wanted to draft Kyler Murray. Let's just say that my plan is slowly coming to fruition.

I don't want to say I'm an evil mastermind, but...

I would say you are not very smart if you draft another QB in the first round.

The evil genius part kicks in when I line him up at RB.

Back to Madden to see what he looks like as a WR instead

Originally Posted By: CHSDawg

The evil genius part kicks in when I line him up at RB.

Evil because he would die? He probably weights like 180 pounds.

Originally Posted By: cfrs15

Originally Posted By: Versatile Dog

Potential overall income..................NFL quarterback or MLB outfielder?

The choice was easy.

Depends on how good he is. Giancarlo Stanton got $325 million fully guaranteed. An above-average MLB outfielder makes a little less per year than an NFL QB.

I think Murray chose football because he prefers football. Coming out of high school he refused entry into the MLB draft and now this latest decision.

I think you should read this:

Quote:

Ask BA: Financially Kyler Murray Would Do Better In The NFL

By J.J. Cooper on December 6, 2018

UPDATE (2/11): Murray announced on Twitter he is committing himself to entering the NFL Draft and playing football. Here is a list of Kyler Murray FAQs and the accompanying answers now that he won't be reporting to spring training.

Q: Is playing both football and baseball professionally a viable option for Kyler Murray?
-- Doug @hdouglasotto

J.J. Cooper: Because Murray is a quarterback, I would say no. If Murray were a running back (like Bo Jackson) or a cornerback (like Deion Sanders) a job-sharing role might be possible, even though no player has done it more than 25 years. Talent is talent, though, and teams are willing to put up with a lot for the chance to put an impact player on the field. But those are positions where players can step in and play with less practice time. Quarterback is such a repetition- and study-based position that it’s hard to envision any NFL team being willing to make a part-time player a starting quarterback. For baseball, Murray is already behind in at-bats compared to his peers. Splitting time would make that even more difficult. From that standpoint, he would likely be better off focusing on one sport.

Murray has publicly said that his plan remains to join the A’s for spring training next season. And there are plenty of logical reasons to stick to that plan—baseball players have a much lower risk of a significant injury and do not have the significant long-term health issues that often come from playing football.

Ultimately, the decision is Murray's, but nothing in his baseball contract with the A’s precludes him from deciding to play football instead of baseball. Looking at Murray’s decision from a purely financial standpoint (we have no clear insight into which sport he prefers to play), it’s clear that football would be a more lucrative decision if he is a first-round talent.

At any other football position, this argument is flipped. NFL careers are too short, injuries are too common and the players’ pay pales in comparison to baseball players. But with quarterbacks, it pays to play in the NFL.

Murray has a $4.6 million guaranteed signing bonus in hand that he will be fully paid as long as he reports and plays baseball going forward (the contract specifically allowed him to play for Oklahoma this fall). But in baseball, that $4.6 million is the only significant payday he will receive for the next five to seven seasons. Considering he has less at-bats under his belt than his peers, he’s likely two to three seasons away from reaching the majors. And then he would be another three seasons away from arbitration. So his first big payday for baseball would likely not come until 2023 or 2024. His first chance at free agency would likely come after the 2026 or 2027 seasons. At that point, Murray will be 29 or 30, which means he’s likely to get one significant free-agent contract if he ends up being a very productive regular.

In football, Murray is consistently projected as a first-round pick. His college teammate Baker Mayfield landed a $21.8 million signing bonus and over $32 million in guaranteed money by being the No. 1 pick in last year’s draft (all contract information here has been gathered from Spotrac.com). And if he plays reasonably well, Mayfield will get a big payday as a free agent after the 2022 season. Even if he signed a five-year extension, Mayfield would hit free agency again in 2028 for a second big payday.

But that’s a best-case scenario. Let’s say instead that Murray lasted until the final pick in the first round. Quarterback Lamar Jackson was picked in that spot last year, and is now starting for the Ravens.

Even in Jackson’s case, he will do significantly better financially as the 32nd pick in the NFL draft than Murray did as the ninth pick in the baseball draft. Jackson signed a nearly $5 million signing bonus and is guaranteed more than $7.5 million even if the Ravens cut him tomorrow. That is almost $3 million more than Murray’s baseball contract. Jackson will make an average of more than $1.1 million a season over the first four seasons of his NFL career. The Ravens can keep him for the 2022 season by exercising a fifth-year option at a significant raise (likely $10 million or more). And then, having earned $20 million or more, he would be eligible for free agency after the 2022 season.

So if Murray gets drafted anywhere in the first round, he will earn somewhere between two and seven times as much money over the next five years in football than he will in baseball. If Murray is even an average NFL quarterback, he will make more than he will as anything other than an All-Star outfielder.

A few years ago, we looked at comparing Jeff Samardzija, a wide receiver/pitcher who chose baseball, to Calvin Johnson, a wide receiver/outfielder who chose football. At the time we noted that even though Johnson was one of the best in the NFL and Samardzija was simply a solid MLB pitcher, Samardzija was likely to out-earn Johnson.

The opposite is true with quarterbacks. Quarterbacks in the NFL are so well compensated that average NFL starters can compete with the paydays received by MLB stars. There are five active MLB outfielders who have earned $125 million or more in their careers. There are five active NFL quarterbacks who have earned more than $200 million in their careers. Unlike other NFL positions, quarterback is one where quality players have better longevity than baseball. MLB teams are hesitant to give large free-agent deals to players over 30 and especially any player over 35. NFL teams regularly hand out massive contracts to quarterbacks in their mid-30s.

The list of extremely well-paid mediocre quarterbacks is lengthy. Mark Sanchez has earned $74 million. Jaguars quarterback Blake Bortles, 26, has already earned $40 million. Chase Daniel has been a nine-year backup. He’s earned $28 million. Matt Cassel started for four-and-a-half seasons in a 14-year career. He’s earned over $60 million. In comparison, center fielder Adam Eaton has been a 4.0 or better WAR player in three seasons. At the end of his current contract in 2021, he'll be 32 years old and will have earned $43 million. He's unlikely to land another massive free agent contract. A career like Eaton's would be a solid outcome for any rising outfielder, but it can't compare to the payoff of being an NFL quarterback.
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To offer one more comparison, Lions quarterback Matthew Stafford and Dodgers lefthander Clayton Kershaw grew up together. Kershaw has been one of the best players in baseball over the past decade. Generously, Stafford could be described as a slightly above-average NFL quarterback. He’s made one Pro Bowl. In 10 seasons, Stafford has earned $178 million. If he plays the final four years of his current contract, he’ll have earned over $262 million. Kershaw has earned $173 million so far over 11 seasons. He will earn $266 million by the end of his current deal in 2021.

Both players are 30 years old, but because he’s a quarterback, there’s a good chance Stafford’s career will last longer than Kershaw’s. In 2018, seven of the NFL’s 32 starting quarterbacks are 35 or older. Four are 37 or older. Of the 196 pitchers and hitters who qualified for the ERA or batting title last season, 11 were 35 or older. Only three were 37 or older.

Murray will have a big decision to make going forward. But MLB’s decision to put a hard limit on draft bonuses and prohibit major league contracts for two-sport stars as draftees makes it hard for baseball to compete financially when it comes to quarterbacks.

https://www.baseballamerica.com/stories/ask-ba-financially-kyler-murray-would-do-better-in-the-nfl/

Originally Posted By: FloridaFan

How come he only had to return 1.29 of the 1.5 mil?

Probably pro-rated in some way. Man, I wish I had a few hundred thousand my last year of college.

Baseball is highly competitive and honestly hitting a baseball is one of the hardest things to do. Football has skills that can be taught much easier than hitting. Speed is important to both sports but carries more weight in football than baseball.

I think he is a better QB than Lamar Jackson. Durability will be an issue. Although statistically I believe he did better than Baker but he is no where as accurate as Baker is as a QB and I believe Baker has a better understanding of defenses and pre snap reads. So I don't think it is even close to Baker as a QB. Question is can he make the transition to NFL QB would he take on the task of WR like an Edelmen did or if that is his recourse will he easily leave NFL football and pursue his Baseball career which will always be open to him.

What is the plan - Play football for 5 years or 2 contracts. Then for health reasons move on back to Baseball. I know it will be virtually impossible for him to linger in Minor leagues cause he cannot learn to hit a curve ball. Coming back to the NFL will not be possible, so history tells us.

He will be the shortest and smallest as he is not thick at all. His longevity will be at WR not QB. Of course we don't even know if the kid can catch...lol

Draft boards do show him being the first or second QB taken. He does have a strong arm. Curious on his hand size? I would not mind us taking him if he is still there in the 3rd round (which I doubt). I don't wish him to be going to the Ravens...that is the only team I see being a great fit for him.

jmho

I think he is thicker than you may think and being a baseball player (a good one), I think he is much more accurate than you are giving him credit for as well, EO.

As a centerfielder, his ball skills are probably excellent - hands as well.

Hitting a baseball is probably the hardest thing to do in sports.

I think he will be a very good QB - much better arm talent than Jackson and perhaps even more athletic. Height is his only ding in my estimation.

I will say he will be better than Jackson but not much more, average at best, and if a team takes him (and one will) in the Top 10 it will be out of pure desperation ... JMHO

Originally Posted By: PastorMarc

I will say he will be better than Jackson but not much more, average at best, and if a team takes him (and one will) in the Top 10 it will be out of pure desperation ... JMHO

He's a far superior QB than Jackson will ever be.

He's not half the runner that Jackson is and will be.

Strange comparison.

Originally Posted By: Hammer

I think he is thicker than you may think and being a baseball player (a good one), I think he is much more accurate than you are giving him credit for as well, EO.

As a centerfielder, his ball skills are probably excellent - hands as well.

Hitting a baseball is probably the hardest thing to do in sports.

I think he will be a very good QB - much better arm talent than Jackson and perhaps even more athletic. Height is his only ding in my estimation.

Actually taped almost all his games. The Accuracy is a tricky one cause we are talking a lot of all day in time. We are talking about a lot of big windows, tricky cause Baker experienced them also.

But my first impression was that I was actually impressed with his accuracy. Then as the season went along and I'm looking at him as a NFL QB forget about his size. When I sate accuracy I was doing so in comparison of Baker as the data base of college was similar. I am talking about Way more accurate that Allen and Jackson. Even a little more accurate than Darnold and better arm strength than Darnold. About even with Rosen in accuracy.

Thick... actually you might be right...All depends on what he specs out at the combine. But right now he is listed at 195 lbs. Which for his height is pretty thick. The height thing is going to be the issue. But actually Baker made inroads in that as being just under 6'1" Normally dropping a QB prospect to the later of the first or even 2nd round. Was not only top 5 but the overall #1 pick so that I think he just broke an NFL snob barrier on height regarding being an NFL QB.

I really feel bad for Doug Flutie, just in the wrong ERA maybe not 1st round but he would have been taken in the 2nd for sure and maybe first. The kid was talented.

Hitting really is one of the hardest and why some never get out of Minor Leagues because of that..usually due to the lack of hitting a Curve and slider. Split finger nobody really earned a living hitting that pitch...lol

Most can catch up to a fastball even of the 98-100 mph variety of the current age.

We actually agree almost to the tee. I was miss leading in my claim to accuracy. I was talking of the high % he had in college to be tranfered to NFL...I think Baker is able to but Murray possibly in that 60+% bracket. He deeper passes have some flaws including the Deep Out. Curious how he does in his workouts. If I was a team that needed a QB and pick 10-15 is where we were at. I would definitely pull a flyer on the kid Much more so than Manziel for sure. Will he have a Mahomes type of result. Dang that height is a tough one. Baker is just at the limits of a problem for the pocket he does get over...I think he drops back deep enough to see and he has that real good 6th sense in the POCKET that Murray the better runner and scrambler but not that in the pocket slide and hitch for an accurate completed pass.

jmho

j/c:

I am not saying I believe this "conclusion" to be true, but people are trying to draw some conclusions based on different pieces of evidence.

1. Arizona's new HC, Kliff Kingsbury, said that he would take Kyler Murray w/the first pick in the draft.

2. As we know, Murray just recently chose football over baseball. I posted an article about the economics of being a qb chosen in the first round of the draft.

3. Kyler Murray just hired the same agent as Kliff Kingsbury.

4. Murray played in an offense that is similar to Oklahoma's.

5. People are pointing to the success of these types of qbs finding success in the NFL and that height isn't as important as it was just a few years ago.

Media types are running w/those three events and the other two beliefs and are saying that the Cardinals are going to select Murray w/the first overall pick and trade Rosen.

I'm not saying it won't happen, but Kingsbury made those comments in October, which is long before he knew he would be coaching the Cardinals and that they would have the first overall pick in the draft. Kingsbury just addressed the speculation and said something like "Josh is our guy."

Lot's and lot's of drama!

Like all players, "[Player X] is our guy" ..... until he isn't.

I still have a feeling that the Cards will draft Murray, and trade Rosen to either the Giants or Redskins.

Originally Posted By: Ballpeen

Originally Posted By: FloridaFan

How come he only had to return 1.29 of the 1.5 mil?

Probably pro-rated in some way. Man, I wish I had a few hundred thousand my last year of college.

probably, but still odd to me.

Wonder if I can borrow 1.5 mil from the bank and then a few months later decide I don't need it and only return 1.29 of it.

Quote:

Dang that height is a tough one. Baker is just at the limits of a problem for the pocket he does get over...I think he drops back deep enough to see and he has that real good 6th sense in the POCKET that Murray the better runner and scrambler but not that in the pocket slide and hitch for an accurate completed pass.

As an avid OU fan, I can attest that Murray is everything that Baker is as far the "in the pocket slide," throwing an accurate pass thing goes. And more.....

Quote:

4. Murray played in an offense that is similar to Oklahoma's.

Yes, it was VERY similar, lol.

Murray BROKE Baker's records at OU, and with the same TALL O-line. This height thing is overblown. They are both masters at reading defenses, and creating, or taking the throwing lanes necessary

Plus, imagine how the D goes nuts trying to see HIM.

Compared to Rosen's collegiate offense it was. And get your snarky attitude out of my face. LOL

Btw........none of that stuff came from me. I was re-telling the things media people are talking about. I made it quite clear what my opinion was and that opinion was that none of those talking points mean that the Cardinals will draft Murray number one.

Originally Posted By: TrooperDawg

Murray BROKE Baker's records at OU, and with the same TALL O-line. This height thing is overblown. They are both masters at reading defenses, and creating, or taking the throwing lanes necessary

Plus, imagine how the D goes nuts trying to see HIM.

Reading defenses? Care to expound on that one?

Originally Posted By: Versatile Dog

Compared to Rosen's collegiate offense it was. And get your snarky attitude out of my face. LOL

Btw........none of that stuff came from me. I was re-telling the things media people are talking about. I made it quite clear what my opinion was and that opinion was that none of those talking points mean that the Cardinals will draft Murray number one.

On the radio today, they were saying that even Bidwell is saying no way they trade Rosen. Just the opposite, that they want to build around him.

Yeah, I think the media guys took the info I listed and ran w/it. I am not saying that Murray won't go to the Cards, but I think the odds of it aren't that good despite the indicators they have pointed to.

One thing I need to expound on is that they keep saying Kingsbury said he would take Murray number one in the draft. Well, it was in October. No one knew the Cards would hire him or that they would have the first overall pick at the time. The media dudes aren't mentioning that. It's kind of deceiving.

Plus kingsbury is not the gm.... I'd be shocked if they take hm number one.....

Originally Posted By: TrooperDawg

Quote:

4. Murray played in an offense that is similar to Oklahoma's.

Yes, it was VERY similar, lol.

Almost as if they had the playbook.

agreed on your take of the new era in the NFL. Didn't know that about Kingsbury's claim he thought Murray was worthy of the overall #1 if he was picking. Thank you for clarifying the time of that statement. Cat out of the bag or will he change his mind. Just one thing I believe was a typo of some sort maybe you would correct it or possibly you have done in a later post. You stated:

4. Murray played in an offense that is similar to Oklahoma's.

Well not only similar but was Oklahoma's QB so a little confusing but get that in some way you are saying that his O in Oklahoma was similar to the Offense Philosophies of Kingsbury.

jmho

I was repeating what the media dudes were saying. I surmised that they were saying that Oklahoma's offense is more fundamentally similar to Kingsbury's than the offense that Rosen ran while at UCLA.

thought so, just didn't read like I think you attempted.

Question?

Do you think a team with many needs (only way to describe a team picking #1) Will take a QB two years in a row. We are talking about Rosen who was a QB from a very strong class. Not the stupidity of the Browns in their drafting prowess drafted 2 years in succession a First Round QB and not that they drafted, Weeden, Manziel and others were as good as Rosen.

So back to the question. Do you think they actually would use the #1 pick on a QB making it the 2nd year in a row picking a QB in the first round. Not only first round but top 10 and then #1???

I know possibly you and I would cause as Browns fans understand how important it is to take a QB.

But also we know if Kingsbury does not succeed and we all know taking an Overall #1 QB its highly likely they will utilize him right away and with the entire team learning a new system it will take time to succeed. HC's in this WIN NOW NFL might not last. As for the owner he just fired his HC after one season.
So patience my not be their owners virtue. So that the next HC might not hold the same O philosophy and want a POCKET passer which Murray would not be a good candidate for.

jmh?

I don't know what the Cardinals will do, but I wouldn't do that. I think you have to give a qb that you invested so much in at least 3 seasons to find out if he is--or isn't--the guy.

Then again, I find the hiring of Kingsbury to be very strange. So who knows what the hell the Cardinals will do???

I think its an interesting situation. We can ASSume that Kingbury still holds Murray as the top QB for his system. They have that talented top 10 QB just taken last season.

Variables abound but I think in this win know NFL that would further Kingsbury to actually strongly press the FO in Zona to take HIS QB for the system.

But for me this is the biggest variable.

Zona's OL was terrible.
in 14 games Rosen was SACKED 45 TIMES...gosh or I should say josh knows how many HITS he took on top of those Sacks.

Lets say they take Murray. In the history of NFL Football the more a QB goes out of the pocket either by choice or design those who have great scrambling and running ability actually get SACKED MORE and obviously get HIT more than the norm.

My point is this. Rosen or Murray whoever is going to be their QB the next two seasons is going to get HIT tremendously this has been a formula of not success but of permanent damage to the QB physically and mentally. Luck looks to have survived his damage, I think he was so special that is the only reason he survived and also the commitment by the Colts FO to secure a functional OL to save his career.

The Cards only have one pick in the first round so that if they take QB there isn't an impact pick until the 2nd round for them to improve their team. What I thought was an important variable also is the fact (I think) is Zona is 4 mil over the CAP. So that they cannot be players in the FA Market.

Picking #1 regardless we can be assured that OL will not be in their mix of choices at #1.

Possibly their best bet if they are committed to Rosen is to drop back not once but possibly twice to accumulate multiple picks in the first and second rounds and make an investment into the OL to protect said QB.

This is my thinking. If they do not do this. They will waste their picks on a QB because they will eventually become damaged goods.

jmho and thinking out loud which could be dangerous...lol

Cardinals could select Bosa at #1, then potentially trade Rosen to Redskins for #15 and select Murray (if he is still there).

Quote:

The Cards only have one pick in the first round so that if they take QB there isn't an impact pick until the 2nd round for them to improve their team. What I thought was an important variable also is the fact (I think) is Zona is 4 mil over the CAP. So that they cannot be players in the FA Market.

Picking #1 regardless we can be assured that OL will not be in their mix of choices at #1.

Possibly their best bet if they are committed to Rosen is to drop back not once but possibly twice to accumulate multiple picks in the first and second rounds and make an investment into the OL to protect said QB.

This is my thinking. If they do not do this. They will waste their picks on a QB because they will eventually become damaged goods.

I agree w/this completely!

If I'm Jacksonville I take Kyler Murray and don't look back.

If I'm the Cardinals, I take Nick Bosa and eventually trade him to someone in the top 10, preferably the top 5.

5' 10+"
207 lbs.
9 1/2"

#1

#1 in the 2nd Round. Hehehe

Originally Posted By: TrooperDawg

5' 10+"
207 lbs.
9 1/2"

#1

These are the shoes he wore.

Josh Rosen to the Saints, Kyler Murray 1/1.

Originally Posted By: TrooperDawg

5' 10+"
207 lbs.
9 1/2"

#1

9.5 inches? Good for him.

Originally Posted By: cfrs15

Josh Rosen to the Saints, Kyler Murray 1/1.

Rosen to either Giants, Jags, or Patriots and Kyler Murray at 1/1.

Originally Posted By: Versatile Dog

Originally Posted By: cfrs15

Josh Rosen to the Saints, Kyler Murray 1/1.

Rosen to either Giants, Jags, or Patriots and Kyler Murray at 1/1.

We are on the same wavelength. If I were the Jaguars I’d be willing to give up quite a bit to get Rosen instead of paying Nick Foles.

Originally Posted By: Versatile Dog

Originally Posted By: cfrs15

Josh Rosen to the Saints, Kyler Murray 1/1.

Rosen to either Giants, Jags, or Patriots and Kyler Murray at 1/1.

The Foles domino has to fall first. That'll dictate where Rosen and Murray go in my opinion. I could see 5-7 teams trying for Foles. Wouldn't you take Foles over Rosen or Murray right now?

Rosen would be a great fit in DC.

Originally Posted By: cfrs15

We are on the same wavelength. If I were the Jaguars I’d be willing to give up quite a bit to get Rosen instead of paying Nick Foles.

I guess I don't understand, Foles is a known commodity. He was a dropped pass away from getting the Eagles back to the NFCCG this past season. He's the goods. Rosen may be cheaper, but he doesn't have the resume of Foles.

Plus, we don't even know what Foles is asking to get. Does he want Cousins money?

Originally Posted By: Punchsmack

Originally Posted By: Versatile Dog

Originally Posted By: cfrs15

Josh Rosen to the Saints, Kyler Murray 1/1.

Rosen to either Giants, Jags, or Patriots and Kyler Murray at 1/1.

The Foles domino has to fall first. That'll dictate where Rosen and Murray go in my opinion. I could see 5-7 teams trying for Foles. Wouldn't you take Foles over Rosen or Murray right now?

Good point about Foles. Tough call.

Rosen and Murray will be on rookie contracts. Foles is going to get paid in a big way and that limits where you can spend money on other areas of the team. Of course, trading for Rosen will be costly.

Foles is somewhat proven and the other two aren't. Yet, Foles is getting older. I think he is 30, but I'm not sure.

I don't know. It's a good discussion and I have to think about it and listen to arguments from both sides before I commit to anything.

I agree 100% .... i think getting Foles is a NO-BRAINER ....

He’s READY and there WINDOW IS OPEN NOW ....

Rosen learned how to get his ass whooped last year ... PT is huge but how much did the negatives outweighs the positives for Josh last year ...

He played in a HORRIBLE SYSTEM, behind a HORRIBLE LINE and with David Johnson being way way way underutilized ...

I think the Jags actually hired Leeftowich who was the OC in Zona after they fired the first goof ... my only point being Leftowich should know how ready Josh is ....

cfr/vers or others has there been some news over the last day or so about Rosen being traded or are u just basing it off the fact there new HC said he would take Murray #1 long before he knew he’d end up in the nfl much less with the 1st pick? ...

Just curious ... wondering if i missed sumptin ...

It's been a hot topic for awhile now and it blew-up once Murray was listed at just over 5'10"

The Cardinals GM, Steve Keim, was asked if Rosen was the Cardinals QB. He replied w/something like this. "Yes, for right now...."

Can they afford Foles? They are on the hook for the next two years to Smith for 42 million.

Washington? Hmmmm..........I'm not sure.

Originally Posted By: Punchsmack

Originally Posted By: TrooperDawg

5' 10+"
207 lbs.
9 1/2"

#1

9.5 inches? Good for him.

Originally Posted By: DCDAWGFAN

Originally Posted By: Punchsmack

Originally Posted By: TrooperDawg

5' 10+"
207 lbs.
9 1/2"

#1

9.5 inches? Good for him.

9.5 inches? That is tiny.

Originally Posted By: Punchsmack

Originally Posted By: Versatile Dog

Originally Posted By: cfrs15

Josh Rosen to the Saints, Kyler Murray 1/1.

Rosen to either Giants, Jags, or Patriots and Kyler Murray at 1/1.

The Foles domino has to fall first. That'll dictate where Rosen and Murray go in my opinion. I could see 5-7 teams trying for Foles. Wouldn't you take Foles over Rosen or Murray right now?

Only if I were going to run a very similar system to the Eagles. WCO all the way. He's pretty good in that system if he has weapons and a line. I only sign him if I am fully committed to that kind of offense.

Originally Posted By: TrooperDawg

5' 10+"
207 lbs.
9 1/2"

#1

207? he added a good amount for this weigh-in, didn't he? Might explain why he isn't running.

Foles in Washington? I would bet no. I would venture to guess they roll the dice with McCoy this year.

Best bet for Foles is probably Florida... Jacksonville or Miami.

Also, I don't think there's any way that the Cardinals swap out Rosen for Murray. What a blunder that would be.

Without trades, the top 5 teams don't really need QBs. Giants should go for Haskins. At the moment I'm guessing Murray in the teens... but at some point he'll probably be top 5. At the moment nothing has changed for me if I'm in need of a QB, I want nothing to do with Murray.

KYLER MURRAY
QB, COLLEGE PLAYER

According to Ralph Vacchiano of SNY, "many NFL sources" believe the Cardinals are targeting Oklahoma QB Kyler Murray with the top pick in April's draft.

The rumor mill is firing on all cylinders this time of year, so we're taking this report with a grain of salt. With that said, this is obviously not the first time Murray has been linked to the Cardinals. Kliff Kingsbury famously asserted that he would draft Murray first overall if he had the chance, though that was before the Cardinals hired him as head coach. One source told Vacchiano that Murray "fits exactly what Kingsbury wants to do" while another said "it's a perfect match." Despite an underwhelming rookie year, it's still difficult to believe Arizona would throw in the towel so soon on 2018 first-rounder Josh Rosen. However, if the Cardinals do decide to shop Rosen, the quarterback-needy Giants would likely be one of his top suitors.

RELATED: Arizona Cardinals
SOURCE: SNY.com
Mar 1, 2019, 2:56 PM

The Giants could be something different if they trade for Rosen and upgrade their OL to go along w/Barkley, OBJ, Engram, and company.

Originally Posted By: Versatile Dog

The Giants could be something different if they trade for Rosen and upgrade their OL to go along w/Barkley, OBJ, Engram, and company.

On the surface the Giants sound like a great fit for Rosen. What about the NY media and Rosen's vanilla personality, could be an oil and water mix.

Good point. Maybe.

Although, NYC is liberal and so is Rosen They might not go after him like they would in the midwest or the south.

I still think that Rosen in DC, playing for Shanahan, is a match made in heaven.

Originally Posted By: YTownBrownsFan

I still think that Rosen in DC, playing for Shanahan, is a match made in heaven.

What year is it?

Gruden.

Sorry. Brain fart.

Even though you misspoke, Rosen would be very good in Shanny's O.

Of course, that won't happen because they have Jimmy G, but I just thought it was worth noting.

J/C
The Cards,specifically the GM is in a tough spot.
Having the top pick in a draft the year after 5 or 6 QBs were taken in the 1st round,and you were one of them diminishes the value of that #1 pick.It doesn't take a rocket scientist to know the Cards aren't drafting a QB,but they sure as hell would love to trade out of it.
Steve Kiem is putting on a good show,but I doubt any of the other GMs are buying into it.

How great is it we don't need a qb

Originally Posted By: pfm1963

Originally Posted By: DCDAWGFAN

Originally Posted By: Punchsmack

Originally Posted By: TrooperDawg

5' 10+"
207 lbs.
9 1/2"

#1

9.5 inches? Good for him.

9.5 inches? That is tiny.

Tom Thumb...is Murray british?

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000001...-to-be-top-pick

Now that would be a total shocker to me ... but stranger things have happened!

AM I the only one starting to think the hype around Murray is overblown? I think he is good but, personally I would take Haskins I think over Murray. I thought he played decent/good against Bama but there are alot of negatives that I think the talking heads on TV are not talking about. He is undersized,has one year of starting experience, was leaving football for baseball a couple months back. If I were making the draft pick for an NFL team, I would not be happy that he is not competing today.

I'm with ya, but everyone is looking for the next Baker Mayfield...

Not that it matters, but Kyler Murray started for A&M as a Freshman for like half? the season.

j/c:

Kliff is just a young Mike Leach. Prove me wrong.

Originally Posted By: CHSDawg

Kliff is just a young Mike Leach. Prove me wrong.

Not enough pirates.

Originally Posted By: vadawgfan07

AM I the only one starting to think the hype around Murray is overblown? I think he is good but, personally I would take Haskins I think over Murray. I thought he played decent/good against Bama but there are alot of negatives that I think the talking heads on TV are not talking about. He is undersized,has one year of starting experience, was leaving football for baseball a couple months back. If I were making the draft pick for an NFL team, I would not be happy that he is not competing today.

Murray has COLLOSAL BUST written all over him. Short. 14 starts? Is that number correct?

That's just starters.

I PRAY Klinger takes him #1. He'll be back in College football in 2 years.

After his six years at tech, he may be bumped down to JuCo or lower.

Man, I don't know. Listening to folks talk at the Combine, Murray may be way better than guys like us think.

For example, the d-lineman from Texas was asked to compare Baker and Murray and he said that Murray was the best player he ever played against.

I'm done evaluating college qbs. I haven't exactly been on roll the last few years. I am at a point where I just watch and listen.

This year I have not looked at any of the quarterbacks.

Have not seen Murray play a down.

Saw Gardner Minshew throw at the combine. He caught my eye. So I watched a little of him. That has been it.

It would be a shocker if Murray went number one.

Watched Murray a lot I got to be a Sooner fan after watching so many games the year before. So that is a team that I would record every week among other. Ohio also cause many on this board like them, Michigan also as my wife likes them, its the team she used to get my kids into football at a young age, thanks to Wolverine and the X-men.

Alabama was the other, I personally liked Penn State cause back in the day I played and loved the MLB position and that was LB U.

So back to the post..I saw Murray, without a DOUBT he is the best College Football QB EVER!

What differential there is between he and Mayfield.

Mayfield is much much better in Accuracy not talking stat pct. talking NFL necessary accuracy.

Murray is much much better in scrambling and running with the ball. Which is almost a detractor of sorts cause hits will come.

Mayfield is much better within the pocket and his movement within the pocket. A little lateral step and buying time then hitting the open WR.

So that is my OPINION of the two. Hands Down we got the better QB.

Murray will be better than Haskins though

Originally Posted By: CHSDawg

Murray will be better than Haskins though

Disagree Haskins is a prototypical pocket passer while Murray is a baseball player

Bortles and Gabbert were prototypical pocket passers. As an Ohio State fan, Haskins left a lot of plays on the field, especially going deep. I like Haskins, but I just don't know about how well he'll do in the NFL, although he progressed a lot during the CFB season, which is very rare thing to do for any player, but especially the QB.

I really hope Haskins goes to NY. I think that'll be his best chance to succeed, but if he's gotta play in Jacksonville, well I'll be rooting for him, but not betting on him.

Originally Posted By: CHSDawg

Murray will be better than Haskins though

I think so too.

Originally Posted By: CHSDawg

Bortles and Gabbert were prototypical pocket passers. As an Ohio State fan, Haskins left a lot of plays on the field, especially going deep. I like Haskins, but I just don't know about how well he'll do in the NFL, although he progressed a lot during the CFB season, which is very rare thing to do for any player, but especially the QB.

I really hope Haskins goes to NY. I think that'll be his best chance to succeed, but if he's gotta play in Jacksonville, well I'll be rooting for him, but not betting on him.

I repect your opinion and I also hope he goes to NY because if he gets a learning year I believe he will be a very good NFL starter, and I don't think Bortles and Gabbert are in the same universe as Haskins ...

FWIW ....

JOSH ROSEN
QB, ARIZONA CARDINALS

NBC Sports' Peter King was told the Cardinals might only get a third-round pick for Josh Rosen.

"Probably a three," a "renowned NFL GM" told King. "Not what the Cardinals would think his value is." The Cardinals are reportedly planning to select Kyler Murray with the No. 1 overall pick, meaning they need to trade Rosen. Owed a total of $1.98 million in base salary over the next three seasons with minimal roster bonuses, Rosen's contract will be extremely team-friendly for whichever organization trades for him. Teams with aging starters, like the Patriots and Chargers, will likely take a long look if Rosen is actually available.

SOURCE: Football Morning in America
Mar 4, 2019, 9:55 AM

If he goes to the Pats or Saints I'm going to be so mad.

Regardless of where he goes ... I’ll just hope your wrong about how good he’s gonna be especially if its in our division ...

lol so petty. I love it. Now go to the WR thread and tell me what you think of miles boykins. You know I'm allergic to Notre Dame 🤧

That wasn’t a slam on U dude ...

He won’t be our QB ... of course i don’t want him to be good ...

Just cause all u do is run around insulting people and calling them drunks doesn’t mean we all do ... that was just your subconscious speaking cause its what you’d do ...

No worries ... i’ll make it easy for u from now on ... i’ll only reply to u when i want to slam u ... that’ll take the thinking about intent off the table for u in the future ...

They can't seriously be considering drafting a midget #1 overall and dumping their 1st round qb of last year with 3 years left of a very cap friendly contract, for a 3rd rounder.

Originally Posted By: Tulsa

They can't seriously be considering drafting a midget #1 overall and dumping their 1st round qb of last year with 3 years left of a very cap friendly contract, for a 3rd rounder.

Especially when there’s a freak pass rushing DE in Bosa available.
This is how bad teams stay bad. Taking flyers on suspect talent when obvious talent is in front of them.

Would you like some cheese with that whine?

90% of Murray's passes last year were FROM THE POCKET. As an avid OU fan, I can tell you that Baker has nothing over Kyler as far as NFL passing goes. Pocket awareness, multiple reads, arm strength, facing the rush and getting the pass off...NOTHING.

You don't win the Texas state football championship three years in a row as a starting QB and not have all the attributes for success.

Originally Posted By: TrooperDawg

90% of Murray's passes last year were FROM THE POCKET. As an avid OU fan, I can tell you that Baker has nothing over Kyler as far as NFL passing goes. Pocket awareness, multiple reads, arm strength, facing the rush and getting the pass off...NOTHING.

You don't win the Texas state football championship three years in a row as a starting QB and not have all the attributes for success.

You didn't mention accuracy.

Regardless, I don't feel theres a need to compare Baker and Murray. We have our QB. And as far as Murray, I think he has a shot at being successful in the NFL.

I agree. Baker is out QB. No need to compare him to college players.

At one point it doesn't really matter if our QB is the best in the league. All that matters is that he is one of them, and he will be.

I am good with that.

Originally Posted By: TrooperDawg

90% of Murray's passes last year were FROM THE POCKET. As an avid OU fan, I can tell you that Baker has nothing over Kyler as far as NFL passing goes. Pocket awareness, multiple reads, arm strength, facing the rush and getting the pass off...NOTHING.

You don't win the Texas state football championship three years in a row as a starting QB and not have all the attributes for success.

There is a huge difference. Baker has successfully transitioned to the NFL and played at an elite level in the NFL. PFF had him graded the 9th (someone correct me if that is off - I am going from memory) best QB in the NFL in his rookie season. His play and grades got significantly better once Kitchens took over the play calling.

Murray might end up being as good in the NFL. There is a chance he will be better - personally I doubt that but it's certainly possible at this point. Murray may also never have a season as good as Baker's rookie season ... we will find out soon enough.

The GREAT news for Browns fans is - it doesn't matter. We have our QB. Murray and anyone else that rises quickly and gets taken 1-16 in this years draft simply results in someone else with a lot of talent at a position of higher need drops to us.

Oh believe me, I wouldn't trade Baker for anybody! There's just a misapprehension on this board as far as Murray's attributes. Ignorance is a terrible thing to waste a football mind on.

Kyler is NOT a "run first" QB. If he does break out of the pocket, it's because it's the right thing to do. And he has NEVER put his body up for abuse. His slide is a thing to behold.

If it does happen, the mixture of Kliff Kingsbury and Kyler Murray WILL be very volatile.

Originally Posted By: Ballpeen

No need to compare him to college players.

I don't think people are comparing Baker to college Qb's but rather comparing college Qb's to him. This is a small but I think significant distinction.

If you are comparing Baker to a college Qb then you are suggesting that we would be better off with that college Qb. But if you are comparing a college Qb to baker then you are using Baker to help evaluate that player and their ability to become a successful pro

Just clicking, Not sure if it's been discussed, but I'm seeing a few Mock Drafts that have Murray going to the Cards at #1. Are they giving up on Rosen that quickly?

Then I read where Rosen is being traded to the Redskins as well.

I just can't believe they are giving up on him that quickly.

Originally Posted By: Damanshot

Just clicking, Not sure if it's been discussed, but I'm seeing a few Mock Drafts that have Murray going to the Cards at #1. Are they giving up on Rosen that quickly?

Then I read where Rosen is being traded to the Redskins as well.

I just can't believe they are giving up on him that quickly.

New coach, new system. Kliff system requires a mobile qb, rosen is a statue. I easily can see him wanting his own guy.

Originally Posted By: willitevachange

Kliff system requires a mobile qb, rosen is a statue.

This is 100% not true.

Originally Posted By: cfrs15

Originally Posted By: willitevachange

Kliff system requires a mobile qb, rosen is a statue.

This is 100% not true.

He is not a guy who is going to make plays on the move. His career % on throws when forced to move was horrible. (42.2% completion when forced to move)

I also cringe when the Brady Quinn type classification, "most pro ready QB in this draft" is applied to a guy.

I do think that Rosen can be OK, in the right offense. He's gotta be protected though. I don't see him as being a good fit in Kliffberry's offense.

I'm not sure that you can quantify a QB by anything he really does in college. According to accuracy Colt McCoy should have been a great NFL QB. According to being elusive RG3 should have been a great NFL QB.

The secret to finding a good QB is how well he will make the transition from college to the pros. I'm not trying to compare Murray to other QB's here. But what he has done is pretty irrelevant IMO. It's how well he can transition to the pro game that will define his greatness in the NFL be that bad or good.

That's a very hard thing to predict and it's the biggest reason there isn't a plethora of great QB's in the NFL.

Full comments from @CharleyCasserly on Kyler Murray here:

https://twitter.com/NFLMedia/status/1103042104828129281

Originally Posted By: GratefulDawg

Full comments from @CharleyCasserly on Kyler Murray here:

https://twitter.com/NFLMedia/status/1103042104828129281

14 starts says it all.

The mobility part, not the Rosen part.

Originally Posted By: kwhip

Originally Posted By: GratefulDawg

Full comments from @CharleyCasserly on Kyler Murray here:

https://twitter.com/NFLMedia/status/1103042104828129281

14 starts says it all.

No. It doesn’t.

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2823...hes-ever-gotten

Heisman Trophy-winning quarterback Kyler Murray did not work out at the 2019 NFL Scouting Combine, but after interviewing with several NFL teams at the event, there is still plenty to dissect.

NFL Network analyst Charley Casserly said on Tuesday afternoon that Murray is garnering "the worst comments" Casserly has ever heard about a high-rated quarterback after the combine:

"He better hope [Kliff] Kingsbury takes him No. 1 because this was not good. These were the worst comments I ever got on a high-rated quarterback and I've been doing this a long time...leadership—not good. Study habits—not good. The board work—below not good. Not good at all in any of those areas, raising major concerns about what this guy is going to do.

"Now, people will say we're going to compare him to [Patrick] Mahomes, we're going to run an offense like Mahomes, we're going to run an offense like Baker Mayfield. ... But those guys are much different. Those guys, you never questioned them about their ability on the board, you never questioned their leadership ability, their work habits. ... [Murray] is not outstanding in those areas and it showed up in the interview."

Back in October 2018 while still the head coach at Texas Tech, Kingsbury said of the Oklahoma product, "I would take him with the first pick of the draft if I could."

Kingsbury is the new head coach of the Arizona Cardinals, who own the first overall pick in the 2019 NFL draft on April 25. Josh Rosen, the No. 10 overall pick of the 2018 draft, is the current Cardinals starter.

There has been some positive feedback from Murray's appearance at the combine, too.

Should the Cardinals choose not to embark on an early divorce with Rosen, Peter King of NBC Sports told the Dan Patrick Show on Monday that Oakland Raiders head coach Jon Gruden "is very interested in Kyler Murray."

ESPN draft expert Mel Kiper Jr. told the show on Tuesday that he believes the Cardinals "have to take Kyler Murray and trade Josh Rosen."

To that point, Bleacher Report's Matt Miller has Murray going to the Cardinals at No. 1 overall in his latest mock draft. Miller notes, "Throughout the week in Indianapolis, I didn't run into one agent, scout, coach or general manager who thought anyone but Kyler Murray would be the top overall pick."

Murray originally intended to play baseball for the Oakland A's, who drafted Murray No. 9 overall in the 2018 MLB draft. However, he stated on Feb. 11 that he is "firmly and fully" committed to becoming an NFL quarterback.

Murray intends to work out fully for NFL teams for the first time at Oklahoma's pro day on March 13.

I think Kyler Murray can be a very good QB.

When I have seen him speak, he has not come across as very intelligent or thoughtful.

Dumb as hell and 14 starts.

Recipe for disaster.

Did Charlie Casserly interview Murray - I think not. Would it behoove certain teams to provide disinformation about Murray, perhaps.

I don't think Casserly is a dishonest guy. He seems very credible.

Originally Posted By: Hammer

Did Charlie Casserly interview Murray - I think not. Would it behoove certain teams to provide disinformation about Murray, perhaps.

Well, we interviewed him, and he came across as knowledgeable, confident and a born-leader .... but Charlie Casserly says other teams found him to be a terrible interview, so we're not going to draft him.

What good is that kind of "disinformation" going to do?

https://www.yahoo.com/sports/taking-closer-look-charley-casserly-230304239.html

As Patriots coach Bill Belichick said about Casserly more than nine years ago, “Who’s been wrong more than Charley Casserly since he left the Redskins? His percentage is like a meteorologist.”

I think there is a very distinct difference between being wrong in evaluations and being dishonest about what you have heard.

Originally Posted By: willitevachange

Originally Posted By: Damanshot

Just clicking, Not sure if it's been discussed, but I'm seeing a few Mock Drafts that have Murray going to the Cards at #1. Are they giving up on Rosen that quickly?

Then I read where Rosen is being traded to the Redskins as well.

I just can't believe they are giving up on him that quickly.

New coach, new system. Kliff system requires a mobile qb, rosen is a statue. I easily can see him wanting his own guy.

But then if you read the NFL.com and watch the NFL Network, Charlie Casserly is saying he's hearing that Murray isn't all that great. not sure what to make of any of this to be honest. But if the Cards Dump/Trade Rosen and pick Murray, that might throw the draft off a bit.

If Kingsbury's going to go all whacko on the Cards, he should just sign Manziel since he already knows the scheme.

I think many people agree that the hiring of Kingsbury was shocking and a huge gamble. Kingsbury had a losing record at Texas Tech and was going to go to USC as an offensive coordinator and not a head coach.

Now, the Cardinals are apparently so enamored w/him that they are willing to dump a guy they traded up for in the first round last year and go w/a qb who isn't exactly a traditional qb?

Sounds risky to me.

This sounds like a disaster in the making.

The interview thing is VERY concerning to me if I am a Cardinals fan. Yikes.

Murray will be the next in line of overrated busts. Everything about this dude screams buyer beware

Originally Posted By: leadtheway

Murray will be the next in line of overrated busts. Everything about this dude screams buyer beware

I have to agree +1

Casserly is one of a few who I pay serious attention too.

He is no BS. He was a good GM and he did that job for a long time.

If a guy interviews poorly like the reports that Casserly heard from people he knows and trusts.

I would not touch the guy. I don't care what kind of talent a guy has. If you can not lead men and do not work and study; you will not make it in the NFL.

Guys who succeed bust their ass. There is no other way. There are no short cuts to success.

Casserly is one of the main reasons why I stopped watching talking heads talk about the draft.

Originally Posted By: Versatile Dog

Sounds risky to me.

Epic-level understatement.

I'm thankful for one thing as far as the draft,that we had the #1 pick last year and not this year. These QB's don't look anywhere near as good as last years group. For once we caught a break!!

I can tell you that Baker has nothing over Kyler as far as NFL passing goes.

Tells me a lot of what you know...err don't know about football...lol

Originally Posted By: TrooperDawg

I can tell you that Baker has nothing over Kyler as far as NFL passing goes.

I have seen Baker do NFL passing; can you point me to some video of Kyler doing NFL passing? Been looking, no luck yet.

We are finally having a QB draft discussion. Thank God the discussion is not about which QB we should pick.

Originally Posted By: CapCity Dawg

Originally Posted By: TrooperDawg

I can tell you that Baker has nothing over Kyler as far as NFL passing goes.

I have seen Baker do NFL passing; can you point me to some video of Kyler doing NFL passing? Been looking, no luck yet.

They literally played in the same offense.

This guy knows...

“I know Kyler met with a lot of different teams at the combine and I’ve personally spoken with the majority of the teams that he met with and every one of them were glowing in their reports about Kyler,” Riley said.
Basically the complete opposite of what Casserly threw out there.
“You’re not going to make everyone happy. That is true. One team didn’t like him and that’s OK. And trust me, there’s about 25 others out there that absolutely love him.”

https://sports.yahoo.com/lincoln-riley-p...-143654318.html

Yes they did. The point is so did a lot f college QB's. That doesn't mean they'll make a successful transition to the NFL. You can extrapolate your comment to any successful QB's who played under any HC in the NCAA. Just because one of their QB's made it in the NFL doesn't mean the one who follows him as the teams starter will also be successful.

How a player transitions from the NCAA to the NFL isn't because of the system they were playing in.

So if they agree with your opinion, they know. If they disagree with your opinion they don't know. Hmmmm....

There's a lot of that type of thinking that goes on here.

Originally Posted By: PitDAWG

Yes they did. The point is so did a lot f college QB's. That doesn't mean they'll make a successful transition to the NFL. You can extrapolate your comment to any successful QB's who played under any HC in the NCAA. Just because one of their QB's made it in the NFL doesn't mean the one who follows him as the teams starter will also be successful.

How a player transitions from the NCAA to the NFL isn't because of the system they were playing in.

That's not what I said at all. The dude asked if Murray made passes like Baker did. Yes he did, they played in the exact same offense, they both put up great numbers and both won Heismans.

The funny part is that people tried to create the narrative that Baker was "Running, Manziel type QB".....but Kyler Murray ran for 1,001 yards last season, Baker ran for 1,083....in 4 seasons.

I'm not sure if that's what he meant at all. And if that's not what you meant, I simply misunderstood.

No matter how you slice it I don't see it being the same thing. Once again you're talking about college, not the NFL.

In the NFL the speed of the game is faster. The windows are smaller. The throws one makes in college won't be the same as in the NFL.

Baker made that transition. His talent allowed him to adjust well to the speed of the game. He managed to do well throwing into tighter windows. That doesn't mean the next man up can accomplish that.

I believe that's what the above poster was referring to. Murray hasn't done it in the NFL. And it is a different animal making those throws in the NFL.

I'm not saying Murray can't do it. Thankfully I haven't had to study QB's this year. Point being, there are a lot of QB's who flourish in the NCAA that simply don't transition well in the NFL. And when the game speed is slower and the windows are larger, it's hard to predict how those changes at the next level will play out.

This is such an asinine point because none of these players look like NFL players because they are all playing college football. And that goes beyond position or era. That's why we scout players to determine future success.

Originally Posted By: BpG

The funny part is that people tried to create the narrative that Baker was "Running, Manziel type QB".....but Kyler Murray ran for 1,001 yards last season, Baker ran for 1,083....in 4 seasons.

Baker and Johnny are on opposite ends of the spectrum. Those who said Baker was Johnny 2.0 look like fools now... It's like saying Kaepernick is Peyton Manning 2.0 because they were similar in size.

Murray is not Baker 2.0.

Originally Posted By: BpG

The funny part is that people tried to create the narrative that Baker was "Running, Manziel type QB".....but Kyler Murray ran for 1,001 yards last season, Baker ran for 1,083....in 4 seasons.

True. And about what one would expect 4.3 vs. 4.8 40's.

Originally Posted By: CHSDawg

This is such an asinine point because none of these players look like NFL players because they are all playing college football. And that goes beyond position or era. That's why we scout players to determine future success.

It's also why the QB failure rate in first round QB picks is so high. When you try to oversimplify the process you fail.

Originally Posted By: PitDAWG

Originally Posted By: CHSDawg

This is such an asinine point because none of these players look like NFL players because they are all playing college football. And that goes beyond position or era. That's why we scout players to determine future success.

It's also why the QB failure rate in first round QB picks is so high. When you try to oversimplify the process you fail.

Or it's a supply and demand option where teams will take a bad QB in the first round because they need to. But I don't think anyone is oversimplifying besides those who think you can't compare NFL players to incoming NFL players, because incoming NFL players haven't played in the NFL.

Originally Posted By: CHSDawg

Originally Posted By: PitDAWG

Yes they did. The point is so did a lot f college QB's. That doesn't mean they'll make a successful transition to the NFL. You can extrapolate your comment to any successful QB's who played under any HC in the NCAA. Just because one of their QB's made it in the NFL doesn't mean the one who follows him as the teams starter will also be successful.

How a player transitions from the NCAA to the NFL isn't because of the system they were playing in.

That's not what I said at all. The dude asked if Murray made passes like Baker did. Yes he did, they played in the exact same offense, they both put up great numbers and both won Heismans.

In your rush to make things up and belittle others, you misunderstood what he actually said and asked. Here is exactly what was said:

Quote:

Originally Posted By: TrooperDawg
I can tell you that Baker has nothing over Kyler as far as NFL passing goes.

I have seen Baker do NFL passing; can you point me to some video of Kyler doing NFL passing? Been looking, no luck yet.

Originally Posted By: CHSDawg

Originally Posted By: PitDAWG

Yes they did. The point is so did a lot f college QB's. That doesn't mean they'll make a successful transition to the NFL. You can extrapolate your comment to any successful QB's who played under any HC in the NCAA. Just because one of their QB's made it in the NFL doesn't mean the one who follows him as the teams starter will also be successful.

How a player transitions from the NCAA to the NFL isn't because of the system they were playing in.

That's not what I said at all. The dude asked if Murray made passes like Baker did. Yes he did, they played in the exact same offense, they both put up great numbers and both won Heismans.

The dude was more specific, in response to the other dude.

I asked about NFL passing. Someone said Baker had nothing on Kyler when it came to NFL passing, or something along those lines. But specifically NFL passing. I am curious as to what samples there would be of Kyler's NFL passing.

Speaking of over simplifying. I remember when Ray Farmer alluded to or flatout said he wanted to create a "QB proof" offense, that if they had the right pieces they could just plug any QB in there.

This was not unpopular on this board at the time. I never face palmed so hard.

I just quoted what Trooper said and your response to him. CHS is making things up again.

I was actually pointing to your comments. That he played in the same system as Baker and made the same throws as Baker. That alone I believe is certainly over simplifying things.

So you took his comment super literal and actually wanted videos of Kyler Murray playing in the NFL and not wanting a video of Kyler Murray making NFL level throws in college football? Good grief.

Originally Posted By: PitDAWG

I was actually pointing to your comments. That he played in the same system as Baker and made the same throws as Baker. That alone I believe is certainly over simplifying things.

You would have a point if my post was equating Kyler Murray and Baker's talent and not as a proof that they were both asked and succeeded at making the same type of throws. There is a big difference between the two.

I think where we lost each other is the term, "NFL throws". That was the question you were commenting on and my point is that you can't compare throws in college to "NFL throws" and I feel I laid my points out on that pretty well.

Originally Posted By: PitDAWG

I think where we lost each other is the term, "NFL throws". That was the question you were commenting on and my point is that you can't compare throws in college to "NFL throws" and I feel I laid my points out on that pretty well.

How the hell else are you going to quantify throws? Good throws? That's how Weeden got drafted.

Originally Posted By: CHSDawg

So you took his comment super literal and actually wanted videos of Kyler Murray playing in the NFL and not wanting a video of Kyler Murray making NFL level throws in college football? Good grief.

The point was about "NFL passing," which one cannot gauge until someone throws in the NFL, against NFL defenses. Doesn't take nearly as much to look good against Big 12 defenses.

Originally Posted By: eotab

I can tell you that Baker has nothing over Kyler as far as NFL passing goes.

Tells me a lot of what you know...err don't know about football...lol

QB/Punter. Collegiate level. National championship team.
Invited to Dallas Cowboys and Houston Oilers free agent tryouts.

What level did you play at?

Originally Posted By: CapCity Dawg

Originally Posted By: CHSDawg

So you took his comment super literal and actually wanted videos of Kyler Murray playing in the NFL and not wanting a video of Kyler Murray making NFL level throws in college football? Good grief.

The point was about "NFL passing," which one cannot gauge until someone throws in the NFL, against NFL defenses. Doesn't take nearly as much to look good against Big 12 defenses.

That's the exact criticism I had of Baker last year. If it wasn't for the fact that Baker plays for the Browns, my shoe would taste disgusting.

I came around to Baker late last year only because I saw his ability to run an offense. Not just lead them, but understanding that when the defense takes away x they've given y. I was not impressed with his accuracy because the Big 12 makes football look like a 7 v 7 drill. But I saw Baker making the right plays, hitting his WR in stride, and he grew on me. I see Kyler do a lot of similar things. And while I'm not planning on studying the QBs, I have been fairly impressed by Murray's command of the offense and his ability to hit guys in stride.

I don't think I have a lot of faith in Murray. Or maybe it's my lazy opinion because I just don't care. I've followed the quarterbacks intently the past 3-4 years post-Manziel. Wentz was the guy for me until Mayfield easily became the best quarterback to come out during that time frame. I probably would have given up all hope if we hadn't draft Mayfield #1. We might have been fine with Darnold or Rosen or Allen, but Mayfield was the no-brainer franchise pick.

Now that we've found our guy I haven't paid as much attention as I normally would have... Murray has a lot of things to like and the skills to maybe become a great QB at this level, but I'm not going to bank on it.

If I have to pick one, I'd probably take Haskins. But I guess my point is, I wonder how much Baker has influenced Murray's draft status if at all... They are different, but can they both be great? We'll see...

...

This oughta be funny ....

Go get em tabber ... *L* ...

Originally Posted By: TrooperDawg

Originally Posted By: eotab

I can tell you that Baker has nothing over Kyler as far as NFL passing goes.

Tells me a lot of what you know...err don't know about football...lol

QB/Punter. Collegiate level. National championship team.
Invited to Dallas Cowboys and Houston Oilers free agent tryouts.

Originally Posted By: Versatile Dog

I think many people agree that the hiring of Kingsbury was shocking and a huge gamble. Kingsbury had a losing record at Texas Tech and was going to go to USC as an offensive coordinator and not a head coach.

Now, the Cardinals are apparently so enamored w/him that they are willing to dump a guy they traded up for in the first round last year and go w/a qb who isn't exactly a traditional qb?

Sounds risky to me.

It isn't risky, and maybe they want to ride the wave hitting the NFL. There aren't many drop-back QB's anymore. I talked about this maybe 10-12 years ago. The wave has finally arrived and the NFL has had to join.

If you can't find a QB who plays your scheme, you best change your thinking unless you want to keep playing crappy QB's and hoping.

It's here.

Originally Posted By: Versatile Dog

I think many people agree that the hiring of Kingsbury was shocking and a huge gamble. Kingsbury had a losing record at Texas Tech and was going to go to USC as an offensive coordinator and not a head coach.

Now, the Cardinals are apparently so enamored w/him that they are willing to dump a guy they traded up for in the first round last year and go w/a qb who isn't exactly a traditional qb?

Sounds risky to me.

In regards to the hiring of Kingsbury, the Cards definitely made a HUGE gamble. They are literally banking that he is the next McVay. And it's not gonna happen.

In regards to drafting Murray. That would be another huge risk. More so because they would have then invested two 1st round picks on a QB. The GM would have to pull some major strings to get rid of Rosen, and to get something decent in return. I think the Cards would be a better team with Murray than Rosen.

Originally Posted By: HotBYoungTurk

Originally Posted By: Versatile Dog

I think many people agree that the hiring of Kingsbury was shocking and a huge gamble. Kingsbury had a losing record at Texas Tech and was going to go to USC as an offensive coordinator and not a head coach.

Now, the Cardinals are apparently so enamored w/him that they are willing to dump a guy they traded up for in the first round last year and go w/a qb who isn't exactly a traditional qb?

Sounds risky to me.

In regards to the hiring of Kingsbury, the Cards definitely made a HUGE gamble. They are literally banking that he is the next McVay. And it's not gonna happen.

In regards to drafting Murray. That would be another huge risk. More so because they would have then invested two 1st round picks on a QB. The GM would have to pull some major strings to get rid of Rosen, and to get something decent in return. I think the Cards would be a better team with Murray than Rosen.

And that right there is the reason to make the move if what that is what they believe.

Going back to the Couch days I said the only thing worse than a blown pick is to stick with it to long. I am not saying Rosen is a blown pick, but if the Cards feel that way, move on.

Originally Posted By: PitDAWG

Originally Posted By: CHSDawg

This is such an asinine point because none of these players look like NFL players because they are all playing college football. And that goes beyond position or era. That's why we scout players to determine future success.

It's also why the QB failure rate in first round QB picks is so high. When you try to oversimplify the process you fail.

14 starts, 5 10" is all u need to know to see this dude is COLLOSAL risk.

I don't care if he runs a 4,1

Happy for you, of course I'm a Billionaire who owns a team...lol

You can put all the resume together all you want.

I played baseball was too small for football. But was a student of the game then coached. would learn every year.

Its rather simple the fact that you said that Baker has nothing over Kyler as far as NFL passing goes does not give you any props on knowing the position...obviously you forgot a lot over the years. There is a big difference in their passing comparison. I like the kid but not the same animal as Baker. I am being critical of him but my comparison is with him and Baker if you cannot see the difference in the accuracy of the throws then as I said...it says a lot. hmmm I played in a Flag league with a guy who had the same resume as you...did you ever play in NJ. He was the last guy cut from Cowboys in 75.

You know he had a career before Oklahoma, right?

reports are now his combine height was inflated

JOSH ROSEN
QB, ARIZONA CARDINALS

CBS' Jason La Canfora predicts Josh Rosen will be traded to the Redskins for a third-round pick.
La Canfora is purely speculating, but he is also convinced Kyler Murray will be the No. 1 overall pick to the Cardinals. As La Canfora points out, there are not many teams beyond the upper reaches of the draft that need a quarterback this offseason. With Nick Foles seemingly heading to the Jaguars, that does indeed leave the Redskins as perhaps the most plausible landing spot.

RELATED: Washington Redskins
SOURCE: Jason La Canfora on Twitter
Mar 7, 2019, 2:42 PM

WOOOOOHOOOOOO .... another position player drops to us .... YESSSSSsssssss

Originally Posted By: leadtheway

reports are now his combine height was inflated

Did he stand on Baker's shoulders while wearing a trench coat?

Originally Posted By: leadtheway

reports are now his combine height was inflated

I wondered if they kept him lying down until the measurement...

Fast forward to 35:20 to see how gravity can shorten you by a half an inch at the end of the day. Meaning, if Kyler was measured at 2pm, did they keep him lying down until he went into the combine?

j/c....

Hmmm. Looks like Charlie Casserly may have had a conflict of interest when commenting on Kyler Murray.

https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2019/03/07/charley-casserly-has-a-conflict-of-interest/

Originally Posted By: Punchsmack

Originally Posted By: leadtheway

reports are now his combine height was inflated

I wondered if they kept him lying down until the measurement...

Fast forward to 35:20 to see how gravity can shorten you by a half an inch at the end of the day. Meaning, if Kyler was measured at 2pm, did they keep him lying down until he went into the combine?

measured him strapped to an inversion table

Originally Posted By: leadtheway

reports are now his combine height was inflated

Pulled a Bobby Brady?....

I used to be 5'2"

Combine folks trippin.. Aren't they supposed to be ACTUALLY measuring these guys?

Originally Posted By: DiamDawg

JOSH ROSEN
QB, ARIZONA CARDINALS

CBS' Jason La Canfora predicts Josh Rosen will be traded to the Redskins for a third-round pick.
La Canfora is purely speculating, but he is also convinced Kyler Murray will be the No. 1 overall pick to the Cardinals. As La Canfora points out, there are not many teams beyond the upper reaches of the draft that need a quarterback this offseason. With Nick Foles seemingly heading to the Jaguars, that does indeed leave the Redskins as perhaps the most plausible landing spot.

RELATED: Washington Redskins
SOURCE: Jason La Canfora on Twitter
Mar 7, 2019, 2:42 PM

WOOOOOHOOOOOO .... another position player drops to us .... YESSSSSsssssss

I saw that the Cardinals haven't even put Rosen on the market yet. It's kinda early to be celebrating.

Perhaps the Cards are hoping someone really wants Murray and they want Bosa or the dude from 'Bama. Thus, they are hoping to acquire picks and still get their guy?

Much too early to draw conclusions.

Plus, they could trade him to the Giants or other team picking before us who would otherwise take a Qb

Originally Posted By: Tulsa

I used to be 5'2"

A couple of years ago I was shocked to find out that I was 3 inches shorter. I'm short to begin with.so 3 inches is a big deal for me...lol

I had a couple of bulging discs and my chiropractor would wrap a towel around my neck and pull -stretching my body out...needed surgery eventually but my point is after a month I got 2 inches back

Originally Posted By: jaybird

How great is it we don't need a qb

I would agree it is awesome we don't need a QB in the first 3 or 4 rounds. I wouldn't be averse to taking a guy in the later rounds to bring along. Always good to have young arms around. Especially in camp.

Originally Posted By: Spiritbro77

Originally Posted By: jaybird

How great is it we don't need a qb

I would agree it is awesome we don't need a QB in the first 3 or 4 rounds. I wouldn't be averse to taking a guy in the later rounds to bring along. Always good to have young arms around. Especially in camp.

Later Rounds I hope we pick up Gardner Minshew II from Washington State. He is a poor mans Baker Mayfield.

jmho

He is a guy I like and fully expect to draft a QB at some point in the draft. Maybe 1 as a UDFA. You need to have 4 camp arms, at least early on.

Stanton is only going to be here this year, possibly next. We need to be thinking about our back-up a year or two from now.

I would expect we will be in some games where we have enough of a lead we can insert the back-up in mop up duty.

Dorsey just needs to bring back Brogan Roback.

Originally Posted By: HotBYoungTurk

Dorsey just needs to bring back Brogan Roback.

Unfortunately he's a Steeler.

Originally Posted By: cfrs15

Originally Posted By: HotBYoungTurk

Dorsey just needs to bring back Brogan Roback.

Unfortunately he's a Steeler.

Just tell him to throw some furniture out the window, talk trash about the team, rename him self #mrBIGquest and demand a trade from the team... we should be able to get him back for half a ham sandwich.

LOL

yeah I think Gardner is the perfect Backup, if ever we would need to utilize the back up nothing changes on the O. There is no need to define plays that adhere to the backups skills. His things that he does well is what Baker does also. If I was our opponents, Steelers/Ravens/Bengals heck I take him late round just to be the practice QB running the Scout O...lol

I just like having a guy who we would not miss a beat - of course Baker is better at almost every variable but they are very similar in what they would be GOOD AT!

No disagreement here. I don't know if it is going to be him or someone else. I don't have any real feelings one way or the other, other than we will draft somebody at some point, and then sign somebody else for a camp look.

Heres the thing for me...

I see a lot of mocks showing Daniel Jones to the Giants at 17.

I have to think if the cardinals are going murray at 1, then Rosen can be had. I would also think Rosen could be had for the 17th pick and not much else.

Jones and rosen are essentially the same age, but rosen has a year under his belt, so you have a point of reference and it's not awful. You got nothing on Jones.

Maybe i'm wrong with my trade value but wouldn't you rather have Rosen than Jones?

That's a great point. I would think Jacoby Brissett would be an even better QB option than Daniel Jones.

There is no way Murray goes as the top QB. He is small and from the Big 12.

I know Purple...but he is on the edge. I can see a specific Offense (Kingsbury's) seeing him as the best QB in the draft. Problem with that is when Kingsbury gets fired he is a QB that will not fit.

I do see him very similar to Wilson but Wilson is much more accurate. As for similarities to Baker, Baker is much more accurate (I know the college stat of completion % shows him as accurate) but I'm talking about a certain amount of throws that have small NFL windows that Baker is accurate and Wilson is Accurate but Murray is not.

I do see him with everything that Lamar has and compared to Lamar he is much more accurate. And I see him put together much more solid than Lamar.

I Do see him making it in the NFL, he will not be a bust unless like with all these guys he becomes damaged goods. Keep in mind he did run scared last season in college I don't know if that was fear of a big hit (note many a great RB attest to fear being a big motivator in their allusiveness) Possible it was because he had a big pay day in Baseball.

But honestly I think Kingsbury is going to damage him physically. I will not get into it in depth but we are SO SO lucky in having Baker Mayfield as our QB. A few of us realize this already. Many of you who believe in him as an NFL QB but still don't know how good he will become...will soon come on board in a different level of acknowledgement. But what I'm trying to say. Murray is going to be good. But he will not be a Baker. None of these guys will be. Luck btw is the only one in the same wheel house but unfortunately it took the Colts too long to realize they had to protect him. The idiots saw him as Big and strong so didn't invest like they should have and he became damaged goods. He has come back to form but had to start all over and there is that mental aspect that we do not know about. Luck is LUCKY! as he came back and Colts now have invested in protecting him. However Good Luck is now, he could have BEEN great as in the best ever great! Baker is still in that possibility pending on his progress.

Many will say - Woah. I say don't tell me Woah, I see just cause you don't yet it don't mean WOAH...It scary how good the kid is so it isn't fair to Murray to be compared with him!

jmho

tab, you are trying to have a serious discussion. However, Memphis was simply making fun of other posters. It's what he does.

But he's small and from the Big 12 so he HAS to be great, right?

The thing is that being undersized and playing in the Big 12 were valid concerns. Those concerns were not limited to posters on this board. They were widely expressed by people who know way more about football than any of us. But, let's not that get in the way of trying to ridicule other posters, because you know, that makes him look better.

Man Kyler Murray....what a quandary, so glad we do not have the 1st pick this year.

There were times last year when I thought Baker lost receivers in the trash due to his height and he's 3 inches taller. Add in that Murray ran for 1,000 yards and 12 TDs. My gut tells me that guy is going to do a lot of running around unnecessarily.

The NFL is going Air Raid, we even hired Monken. In a system like that maybe he can make it, but man, history isn't kind to sub 6 foot qb's.

When you lead with size and conference as to why someone won't be a good QB among a myriad of others things that are FAR more relevant, it deserves being laughed at.

Murray might not make it as an NFL QB, but height won't be the reason why. As long as he's not the size of Warwick Davis, being 5'10 or 6'0 is lower on the totem pole compared to other more important factors.

When you lead with the type of post you made above, you deserve to be laughed at. You're not superior enough of a human being to be laughing at others.

Quote:

You're not superior enough of a human being to be laughing at others.

What a guy.

Well, you either think you're better than others or you don't. I didn't want you to confuse yourself about that.

You should go look up some of your past posts when commenting on others' opinion and see where you fall.

Practice what you preach.

Originally Posted By: PitDAWG

You're not superior enough of a human being to be laughing at others.

I'm guessing you think pretty highly of yourself....

Originally Posted By: Versatile Dog

The thing is that being undersized and playing in the Big 12 were valid concerns. Those concerns were not limited to posters on this board. They were widely expressed by people who know way more about football than any of us. But, let's not that get in the way of trying to ridicule other posters, because you know, that makes him look better.

I think a lot of those concerns were media-driven.

Wait........are people really debating who started the insults?

It never ends.

We know who did. But are you surprised? Then he likes to think everyone is fooled with his BS.

Just stop...remember everyone's poop stinks! Get out the Fabreeze

Even yours.

j/c

What I hate about the board when there is no real football news, the conversations tend to deteriorate into tit-for-tat arguments over nothing of substance.

Originally Posted By: W84NxtYrAgain

j/c

What I hate about the board when there is no real football news, the conversations tend to deteriorate into tit-for-tat arguments over nothing of substance.

Actually, that occurs even when we are playing football.

Originally Posted By: PitDAWG

Even yours.

everyone's

I already said it, I ain't as shallow as you cause you act like your stuff don't stink. smh

Ah, back to your old ways I see. Not surprised.

Have you ever owned up to anything. All you did on this thread is pick fights. Then you got the gall to make a statement like

Ah, back to your old ways I see. Not surprised.

If you mean my old ways as in not having any respect for you as a poster...YEP, and what is this back stuff, I never left as you pick fights all over the board. Then point your finger to others.

smh Grow a set and post football!

Originally Posted By: eotab

smh Grow a set and post football!

Like you just did? Maybe you need to read the entire thread and figure out how this started. But I doubt you will. You just keep being tab until you go off the deep end...... again.

I believe it started because someone took offense to a post that wasn't even directed at him and thus made a derogatory remark towards that poster... then you followed suit.

Sure it did. You took a jab and got countered with a hook. That's the way it goes.

Originally Posted By: PitDAWG

Originally Posted By: eotab

smh Grow a set and post football!

Like you just did? Maybe you need to read the entire thread and figure out how this started. But I doubt you will. You just keep being tab until you go off the deep end...... again.

You keep track of who gets suspended?

No, but you taught me how to if I so choose to. What does going off the deep end have to do with getting suspended? I think you're inferring things that weren't posted..... again.

I rest my case...you have proven everything about your posting. Lets get back to football. Instead of bullying the board lets talk football!

So do you think Murray is worthy of the Overall #1 pick. If not the Cardinals which looks like they are going to take him but you never know. But if they do is he a systems pick or would any team needing a QB take him at #1???

I say he is a systems QB, I think he will get hit a lot more than anything he ever had in OK.

I think when Kingsbury gets fired. Zona will be back to square one as Murray will not be the guy and they got rid of Rosen.

The Giants would be wise to get Rosen. If they got a 2nd rounder that would more than do the trick!

jmho

I'll let your snide comments go...... this time.

I don't think Murray is worth the #1 pick. He certainly isn't a Baker Mayfield. He doesn't have the accuracy throwing into tight NFL windows. You are right in that he is a system QB. But even at that his ceiling will only take him so far at the next level. I think that Kingsbury can get the most out of him that a coach can. But that won't take them far enough to save either one of them in the NFL.

Rosen is the perfect fit in New York if they plan to stick with the same system they are running with Eli. He's a prototypical pocket QB. The transition would be about as seamless as it can be for both Rosen and the Giants.

Murray should play Baseball … JMHO

I would agree...

The question, I suppose is, does ole Kliffy want a traditional pocket passer to run his offense.

I think it's crazy to think Arizona traded up to draft Rosen and now that they have the first pick they want to take Murray. How much better is Murray than Rosen. What can Murray do that Rosen can't?

If I'm the owner of this team and my GM says we need to draft a QB after trading up for one the previous draft, I'm thinking does this cat even know what he's doing?

I think Arizona is trying to convince someone to make a big offer to trade up for Murray.

I don't think there is an OL worthy of going #1 overall, and Rosen is going to need some better protection if he is going to be successful.

I think they are trying to get Oakland to bite with a package along the lines of 4 and 27.

Then the Cardinals could take an edge rusher (or Quinnen Williams if Bosa and Allen go 2-3) at 4 and a tackle at 27.

Originally Posted By: devicedawg

I would agree...

The question, I suppose is, does ole Kliffy want a traditional pocket passer to run his offense.

With the way the rumor mill has him taking Murray, I'd say he certainly isn't looking for a pocket style QB to run his offense.

Quote:

I think it's crazy to think Arizona traded up to draft Rosen and now that they have the first pick they want to take Murray. How much better is Murray than Rosen. What can Murray do that Rosen can't?

If I'm the owner of this team and my GM says we need to draft a QB after trading up for one the previous draft, I'm thinking does this cat even know what he's doing?

That's certainly one logical way to look at it.

The other way to see it is that they hired a coach who runs a totally different scheme that wants and needs a different style of QB to run his system. As such you made the decision to change directions on the QB position the day you signed him as your HC.

Quote:

The other way to see it is that they hired a coach who runs a totally different scheme that wants and needs a different style of QB to run his system. As such you made the decision to change directions on the QB position the day you signed him as your HC.

I understand your point and I agree, but keep in mind our new DC was hired a year ago to be Arizona's HC.

So, a new HC was hired and a trade up in the draft for a QB. The next year a different HC was hired and a new QB is being drafted.

If you didn't like Wilks, why in the heck wouldn't you bring in a HC to be the mentor for the QB you traded up for a year ago...

If he's telling you he screwed up the previous year, how much faith do you have in the guy to not screw up again? Just weird to me.

But would it still be considered a screw up had you have kept Wilks as your HC? Would it still be a screw up if you hired a HC whose system depended on a pocket passer? Maybe the real mistake was hiring a new HC that would require a QB change to effectively run his system?

From my perspective where the screw up occurred was hiring Wilks as the HC. It's obvious to me that when they hired Wilks it went along with the drafting of Rosen.

It also seems obvious to me that when they hired Kingsbury the decision was made to move away from Rosen to get Kingsbury the QB he needed to run his system.

I see it more as an indictment of hiring Wilks in 2018 than the drafting of Rosen. I'm not sure who made the call to hire Kingsbury. Whoever made that call seems to be the culprit that caused the need to change QB's IMO.

So we pretty much agree on the football part...go figure...lol

Yeah, but I don't know anything about the game so you must find that amazing!

Obviously you plagiarized from my body of work...lol

I think the real mistake was hiring Kingbury. What has that guy ever done to warrant being named HC of an NFL team? Dude had a losing record at Texas Tech and was fired from that position.

He then gets an OC position at a has-been college team in USC, which is a demotion from being a HC.........and yet, somehow...Keim hires this guy as HC in Arizona and is seemingly willing to give up on a qb who was drafted in the top 10 last year and go for a qb that absolutely no one would have at the top of the board if Kingsbury wasn't the coach.

I think most teams probably have Murray as the top QB.

The above statement is not provable.

I disagree and I can't prove that, either.

We do know that Murray had a grade that was often outside of the first round from guys who evaluate the draft. Of course, those guys aren't always right. Last year is an example of that.

I certainly agree with everything in your post. Murray is certainly no Baker in terms of accuracy and I highly doubt the rest of the league sees him as a #1 overall pick prospect. But that said, we all know QB's are over drafted for obvious reasons. I also see zero that jumps out to me on the resume of Kingsbury that would cause me to consider him NFL HC material.

I think Zona is a crap storm waiting to happen. The only possible good that I see can come from it is the possibility that Rosen may have a chance to play in a system that actually suits his skill set. My hope is that he ends up with the Giants or a team with a similar system on O.

But that's not a given. When venturing a guess right now, with all of the Giants first round assets my guess is that they're deciding between Rosen and Haskins on which way to move forward.

j/c:

Why Kyler Murray is the top player on the PFF 2019 NFL Draft Board

ACCURATE IN THE RIGHT AREAS
As we continue to dig into the PFF data, one of the most important aspects to determine a quarterback’s viability at the next level is his ability to hit open throws. While it sounds easy, and often used as a negative when evaluating college players with QB-friendly offenses, hitting open throws is the biggest separator between the best and worst quarterbacks at the next level. Like Mayfield, Murray shines in this area, taking advantage of the many open throws afforded him by the Oklahoma offense. On open passes thrown at least 10 yards down the field, Murray has the highest accuracy percentage in the class (using actual ball location) and the fourth-lowest percentage of uncatchable passes.

When we push the boundaries to 20-plus yards throws, Murray still sits atop the list at 61.6%, significantly higher than any other FBS quarterback in the draft class other than Eric Dungey.

ACCURATE UNDER PRESSURE
While clean-pocket success is one of the primary indicators for future success, and Murray certainly excels in that area, quarterbacks must be able to handle pressure and Murray has the accuracy and athleticism to translate at the next level.

Murray’s sudden pocket movement and ability to drop this pass in down the field is as good as you’ll see from any quarterback at any level during the 2018 season.

And even in a more traditional sense, Murray shows his accuracy here with multiple defenders bearing down on him as he throws a well-placed ball away from coverage (even with the cornerback falling) into the end zone for the score.

ACCURACY AGAINST MAN COVERAGE; ACCURACY INTO TIGHT WINDOWS
Murray has the highest percentage of “perfect” throws (throws which are in-stride or placed away from the leverage of the coverage) in the draft class when targeting “single” coverage. He was middle-of-the-pack when it came to avoiding uncatchable passes in this scenario, but his high percentage of top-end plays certainly fall into the “NFL throws” bucket.

Murray also has the highest percentage of “perfect” throws into tight coverage. This one against Texas in the Big 12 championship is reminiscent of Mayfield’s tight-window red-zone throws against TCU in 2017. Murray puts this pass where only his receiver can get it, resulting in the touchdown.

Much like the Mayfield narrative last season, yes the Oklahoma offense creates “easier” looks for Murray, but when he does have to put the ball into tighter windows, he’s more than capable

https://www.profootballfocus.com/news/dr...pff-draft-board

Nice post. I haven't looked into the QBs this year, or followed the draft much at all, but I always enjoy reading PFF's analyses.

Quote:

I think most teams probably have Murray as the top QB.

Quote:

I highly doubt the rest of the league sees him as a #1 overall pick prospect.

These are not the same, but in a way, I agree with both.

Keep in mind, Murray is no Baker but he is way ahead of Lamar Jackson and is faster and very similar to Wilson. I think he will be good but with Zona he has a high potential of becoming damaged goods.

Happy Easter to all of the Catholic faith and their spin offs.

We Eastern Orthodox are from the Original Church which the Pope broke away as we would not follow him as the supreme ruler of the Church. Somewhere in the 1500's or there about the Pope decided to use the Roman Calendar instead of the one being used for our holidays and that is why our Easter falls on different days. This is my Palm Sunday and Easter is next week for us.

But to all, Christians of all walks, Jews, Muslims - may God Bless you all and may we have peace on Earth!

That’s pretty damn funny!

Originally Posted By: GratefulDawg

lol

The Arizona Cardinals mickey mouse offense will be exposed early and often.

RIP Murray.

Originally Posted By: SuperBrown

The Arizona Cardinals mickey mouse offense will be exposed early and often.

RIP Murray.

Is this the same offense the Ravens will be running, or are you saying its mickey mouse bc of Kliff?

Kingsberry's offense and the Ravens offense will both be mickey mouse.

Kingsberry's offense is just a slightly different version of Chip Kelly's O. They will be pass/run option.

When Murray gets his bell rung from an NFL LB, he will wish he had made the decision to play baseball.

The Ravens O is a run first offense with 2 running backs. Sadly for them, one of those running backs is the QB.

Not at all, besides them both running plays out of shotgun.

In reality, Kliff's offense will more resemble ours, but I guess you could say that the Ravens' offense will mimick Chip Kelly's. And that's a stretch too.

I think the main difference is you need an OL that can run block to run either of these O's. The Cards don't have that.

Originally Posted By: CHSDawg

Not at all, besides them both running plays out of shotgun.

It's simply the Air-Raid Offense for Kingsbury:

The system is designed out of a shotgun formation with four wide receivers and one running back. The formations are a variation of the run and shoot offense with two outside receivers and two inside slot receivers. The offense also uses trips formations featuring three wide receivers on one side of the field and a lone single receiver on the other side.

Yes, but Chip Kelly ran a spread option offense. That is what the Ravens run.