For me, I think there is some talent left...I'd look to trade back 5-10 picks
some names:
Marquis Lee (WR) Timmie Jernigan (DT) Louis Nix (DT) Stephen Tuitt (3-4 DE) Ra'Shede Hageman (3-4 DE) Jordan Matthews (WR) Demarcus Lawrence (OLB) Morgan Moses (OT) Xavier Su'a Filo (OG) Cody Latimer (WR) Jace Amaro (TE) Cyrus Kouandijo (OT) Carlos Hyde (RB) Kyle Van Noy (OLB) Allen Robinson (WR) Joel Bitonio (OT/OG) Scott Crichton (3-4 DE)
I think Farmer played this draft great so far. We got a shutdown corner at 9 (with a 2015 first to boot!). We got our pick of project QB at 22, and now we've got a buffet of receivers to choose with our second rounder.
Marquis Lee was talked about as a top 20 pick. Jordan Matthews is a pretty great darkhorse pick that some have talked about as a first rounder. Cody Latimer was mocked quite a bit in the first ... at least ONE of those guys will be available to us.
And then of course we've got the best guard in the draft still there in XSF.
I'd like to come away from day two with 2 of the following (since we spent our 2nd third rounder on JFB);
Lee, XSF, Cyrus, Robinson, Latimer, Hyde, Moses, M. Martin, or Luis Nix.
With any luck Farmer can wheel and deal the Browns some more picks from the QB scramble/fight at the top of the second round and get another second or third in the deal (for this year!).
Welcome to the Browns J Gilbert looking forward to your being the interception machine at the next level. Welcome to you too Johnny Football, looking forward to you being the very opposite of Justin.
I have liked Lee a lot, since last year where he and Woods made such a great team. USC QBs May often suck in the NFL, but Woods looked a whole lot better than many thought he would. He would be a great option across from Gordon. He needs to work on his routes, but he has stuff you just can't teach, like quicks, speed, and hands.
I really want another big CB, along with an ILB, and a RB with our 3 picks in the 3rd-4th rounds. Yes, I want that extra corner, because I don't want to see us completely fall apart if we actually get into a playoff chase, and Haden gets hurt late again. Haden has played 15, 11, and 15 games in the past 3 seasons. Haden gets dinged. I don't want to see Ralph Brown or Chris Owens in there if he does. I want serious depth at CB, because the position is just that important. The Hawks lost a top flight CB to suspension, but their depth carried them to the Super Bowl. Let's build, and maintain, depth at CB.
Rounds 6-7, just take the top rated guy. I would rather have a contributor at a position where we don't "need" help, than a non-contributor at a position of need. Maybe a Center in there to develop for the future is something to look for. I still think that we will add a veteran OL after the draft, when a veteran is let go.
That being said. I would think about either Moses or Bitonio instead -- for three reasons:
1.) Lee isn't exactly a great fit for Manziel - who is now entrenched as QB of the future. Lee is a very crisp route runner, with good hands. But he is far below average on contested balls. Manziel throws a lot of contested balls, and makes most of his money scrambling after a play breaks down. These skills don't really seem to fit what Lee does.
2.) There are still a lot of receivers who do have skills that fit Manziel's skill set very well. I especially think of Davante Adams (6'2", 39.5" vertical) Jordan Matthews (6'3"), Allen Robinson (6'3", 39" vertical), Donte Moncrief (6'2", 39.5" vertical). I think these are the type of people you want to fit in alongside Gordon (who himself is a very good fit to this sort of offense). I'm especially interested in Davante Adams, who should be around in the late second, and has amazing hands, and the ability to fight for contested balls.
3.) This sort of depth doesn't exist for the OT/OG spot. I'm going to watch tape of Moses/Kouandjio/Bitonio/XSF before the draft starts today (I already know I don't like XSF much, but just to brace myself in case that is the pick). Moses is probably the most talented, Bitonio is the best ZBS fit. There is some depth with a guy like Yankey, who I think is a good scheme fit, or maybe a guy like Trai Turner. But it's not the same as for the WRs.
Either way - I'd like to see us pick up either OG/WR at 35, and then flip our 3rd rounder and a 4th rounder to get up to the mid second and make another pick for the other piece. We have three real needs left: OL (either OT/OG), WR, and ILB. There are some good ILBs in the 4th (Preston Brown, Max Bullough, maybe Shane Skov) -- so we can potentially hit on all three and still get up to the 2nd round again today.
Edit: Forgot that Louis Nix is still around. He's another reasonable target because he's what we want in a 3-4 NT. We don't need more help along the DL, but it's rare that people like him come along.
Also forgot about Cody Latimer -- so I think in general that makes 5 WRs (Latimer/Adams/Robinson/Matthews/Moncrief) who are probably better fits (if less talented) than Lee.
M.Lee is clearly the BPA and fills a need. Path to him should be clear barring a trade as HOU and WAS don't need a WR at all. Only reason not to pick him would be his medical Report.
Good picks would be DE/OLB Lawrence, WR Matthews, OG G.Jackson, FS Brooks and even RB Hyde. Another trade down would be good too if the compensation is fair.
Would be torn on WR Latimer or OT/G Bitonio. Don't want XSF at all. He'd be worse than Manziel pick. And please no WR Moncrief either.
A left field pick I would also like would be Crichton
I agree with most of these -- but I think you are not considering ZBS when you are evaluating linemen.
It's a huge change from anything we've done in previous years - and while our top linemen (Thomas/Mack) are well set-up for the change (which is probably part of what Shanahan said during his interviews) -- the guys we draft from here on out will be obvious ZBS fits.
This elevates Bitonio in my mind, and greatly hurts Jackson -- who doesn't have the footwork for ZBS.
I know, but I just love Gabe but he's very nimble for his size. That's why I picked Martin in my mock and let Gabe on the board even at 71 but I would still like if we picked him, especially over XSF, ZBS or not, Gabe is a much, much better OL, but we agree on XSF
I'm trying to stay positive and tell myself that the draft isn't over yet. If we make good picks from here on out and maybe grab another value QB in the 4th like Murray, this draft will look a lot better to me. How does WR M.Lee, FS T.Brooks, RB Freeman and QB Murray sound?
I would like devante adams or allen robinson in the second. Possibly trade down and still get one of them. Come back in the third and grab richburg? The center from colorado st. He has played guard and could possibly come in and start there. Round four, I would like the rb out of towson.
Not sure what picks are left, but if we can add an inside lb and either brooks or ladler at safety too...
Give me Jordan Matthews. I heard a troubling statistic that of the top 20 WRs in this draft, Marqise Lee led them all in drops last year. If a team needs a very athletic WR that can't catch the ball reliably.. well we've already got one.
Quote: Give me Jordan Matthews. I heard a troubling statistic that of the top 20 WRs in this draft, Marqise Lee led them all in drops last year. If a team needs a very athletic WR that can't catch the ball reliably.. well we've already got one.
Lee did have the 2nd highest drop percentage of top wideouts in 2013 though his drop percentage was supposedly much lower in 2011/2012.
Here is the list everybody is quoting that number from:
Quote: Carlos Hyde would be a great value pick with our 2nd round pick.
I do believe there will be trade offers for this pick...teams looking to move up to get a guy they want.
Farmer will have to weigh the options and decide.
I definitely wouldn't mind a trade - I see at least 2-3 guys I like at every position. If we could move down to about 45 and get another 3rd, I would take it.
Another trade that was discussed a lot several weeks ago was #35 to San Francisco for #56 and #61. That will move us down quite a bit more, but it works out well for both teams, I think.
Quote: I would like devante adams or allen robinson in the second. Possibly trade down and still get one of them. Come back in the third and grab richburg? The center from colorado st. He has played guard and could possibly come in and start there. Round four, I would like the rb out of towson.
Not sure what picks are left, but if we can add an inside lb and either brooks or ladler at safety too...
Man there are worlds between Brooks' and Ladler's tape
Same with Lee/Matthews and Adams/Robinson....we're talking two different tiers imho. Adams is pretty much a raw project like Latimer and Moncrief, maybe a little bit further, but still won't give us much his rook season. Heck, I even think Lee is in another tier than Matthews. I would take him over any 3rd round trade offer we'd get, because if we traded up from 35 with one of OUR 3rds, I would have called it a steal to take Lee at the end of the 1st. We got lucky that Carolina thought they have to pick a bigger go-to WR and Lee is probably viewed as a WR2-only by some. His game is really underrated.
Lee would be a PERFECT fit for Manziel, as he does a lot of the little stuff to complement Johnny's game. He's a team player and a QB's best friend. Maybe his medical has some red flags and it's the only reason he has dropped out of the 1st...then again, maybe teams wait on WR because they think it's so deep and that's why he dropped. If it's the latter, we HAVE TO reap the value here.
I just don't see the "perfect fit for Manziel" - Lee is a timing receiver, Manziel is not a QB who has great timing. And due to his height (and the ever changing throwing lanes) - he never will be.
Lee will certainly be an improvement over what we have - but I'm not sure that you can have a receiver who can't make the contested catch to go along with Manziel.
Lee can't make contested catches? That's news to me
The biggest fit I see is that Lee is a great situational football player. He understands down and distance and he is the best at working back and adjusting to the action on the field. That's exactly what we need in general for our WRs and especially with Manziel at QB. Gordon will run his route and then throw his hands up if he doesn't get the target, at least the Gordon of last season, maybe he imtpoes on that. Lee is already better at that than anyone we have or is left in the draft imho. He isn't the most athletic, but he is by far the best football player left in this WR class
If NFL lineage is important, than Jordan Matthews is set. He is a relative of GOAT WR Jerry Rice. If college competition is important, then Jordan Matthews is set. He is the all-time SEC leader in receptions, receiving yards, and is a two-time All-SEC player. If measurables are important, then Jordan Matthews is set. He is big (6’3”, 215 lbs, 10 ¾” hands), fast (4.46-40, 4.18-20-shuttle), and strong (21 rep bench). If character is important, then Jordan Matthews is set as he has been as non-diva as you can get as a WR and says and does all the correct things by all accounts (including willingness to block). The reason that he is a step down from the top five guys is that he can struggle to release in press coverage, he doesn’t do double-moves all that well, and has bad habits with trapping the ball against his body in tight coverage.
Marquise Lee doesn't do the same as Matthews in measurables (5'11", 190lbs, 9 1/2" hands, 4.52-40, 38" vertical A& 4.01-20ydshuttle though) and he had a ridiculously rough childhood (brothers in gangs/jail, bounced around foster system), but he is a much more refined receiver. His routes are impeccable, he catches the ball with his hands, he isn't afraid of going into traffic, he is very good at avoiding contact after the catch, and is one of the best "outfielder" receivers you can get (tracking deep ball flights). There is a reason that he is the only WR Heisman finalist in recent history. Now, he played hurt last year and those injuries are a concern moving forward. I think it comes down to if you think he can stay healthy. If yes, he's better than Matthews IMO despite the size difference.
Van Noy, I believe, could be our WILB. He is being touted as OLB for the purposes of the NFL draft, but also both possess the quickness, reaction time, and fluidity in coverage to handle the WILB spot for our defense. In addition, since Pettine wants to use a hybrid front, he is the ideal guy you would like to be at WOLB when we show a 4-3 look. Van Noy is much better at shedding oncoming blockers than the other LBers in this class and also is good in coverage, which believe to be essential skills in this role.
Waltersfootball rated Manziel and Gilbert as the top prospect updated in their respected field. Qb and Wr. Filo is the top rated Guard followed by Yankey which for me either one would be a great fit . Filo or whatever his full name is a quick footed mauler at guard which will help protect Hoyer or Johnny and open lanes for Tate. My pick is Filo at guard
We just drafted a very small pinball of a QB. We already have two pro-bowl caliber weapons for him to throw to, but we are very short on quality guards.
We moved up in the 1st round to draft a franchise QB. Protect him. Take the offensive lineman.
We have more holes than we can fill in this draft sadly. I don't know how to prioritize OG, ILB, WR, and FS.
One thing not being addressed much I'm curious about. Are there any good Free Safeties left? A true ball hawk back there without having to rely on Gipson would excite me.
We really really gotta upgrade at ILB. Wasn't Robertson one of the lowest ranked ILBs last season? (like dead last if I remember correctly).
I'm worried we just took Gilbert but if last season repeats we'll just get torched by weak coverage over the center over and over again.
Honestly I'll be happy if any of those four positions is addressed. I'll take the Vandy guy over Lee personally. 5'11'' and family history problems vs. 6'3'' and related to Jerry Rice? I'm a very "toss it up for grabs" kind of guy, I'll take the 6'3'' guy any day. Makes me happy we drafted Manziel, I want someone willing to just throw the ball to Gordon and accept that he'll probably make the catch regardless of coverage.
That's 1 or 2 more "drops" over the course of a season. His hands are not an issue when you watch some of his grabs ove the past 2 seasons. Some of those drops might have been in situations that he put himself to catch the ball to begin with
And Toad, I guess you haven't watched XSF play. I agree, if I just read profiles of him, I'd think he'd be a win at this point, but if you actually watch him play, he's awful on contact and that's an OL job, lol. That's the problem with only reading profiles and reading stats. Haven't you learned anything from pimping Jarvis Jones last draft?
Quote: That's 1 or 2 more "drops" over the course of a season. His hands are not an issue when you watch some of his grabs ove the past 2 seasons. Some of those drops might have been in situations that he put himself to catch the ball to begin with
And Toad, I guess you haven't watched XSF play. I agree, if I just read profiles of him, I'd think he'd be a win at this point, but if you actually watch him play, he's awful on contact and that's an OL job, lol. That's the problem with only reading profiles and reading stats. Haven't you learned anything from pimping Jarvis Jones last draft?
Screw Lee. Dude can't catch. SICK of that crap.
Mathews and Adams. The ONLY 2 we should look at. MORE SIZE.
I'm still planning to go watch Lee (along with basically everybody else mentioned here) when I get back from work tonight (before the draft starts). I was actually really pimping him before the draft as the number 4 wideout (behind Watkins/Evans/Cooks). And I still like him quite a lot. If we had taken Bridgewater at 22, I would be pimping him really hard right now.
I'm just not sure he's the best fit alongside JFF.
Quote: If NFL lineage is important, than Jordan Matthews is set. He is a relative of GOAT WR Jerry Rice. If college competition is important, then Jordan Matthews is set. He is the all-time SEC leader in receptions, receiving yards, and is a two-time All-SEC player. If measurables are important, then Jordan Matthews is set. He is big (6’3”, 215 lbs, 10 ¾” hands), fast (4.46-40, 4.18-20-shuttle), and strong (21 rep bench). If character is important, then Jordan Matthews is set as he has been as non-diva as you can get as a WR and says and does all the correct things by all accounts (including willingness to block). The reason that he is a step down from the top five guys is that he can struggle to release in press coverage, he doesn’t do double-moves all that well, and has bad habits with trapping the ball against his body in tight coverage.
Marquise Lee doesn't do the same as Matthews in measurables (5'11", 190lbs, 9 1/2" hands, 4.52-40, 38" vertical A& 4.01-20ydshuttle though) and he had a ridiculously rough childhood (brothers in gangs/jail, bounced around foster system), but he is a much more refined receiver. His routes are impeccable, he catches the ball with his hands, he isn't afraid of going into traffic, he is very good at avoiding contact after the catch, and is one of the best "outfielder" receivers you can get (tracking deep ball flights). There is a reason that he is the only WR Heisman finalist in recent history. Now, he played hurt last year and those injuries are a concern moving forward. I think it comes down to if you think he can stay healthy. If yes, he's better than Matthews IMO despite the size difference.
Excellent rundown. Totally agree on both guys.
Quote: Van Noy, I believe, could be our WILB. He is being touted as OLB for the purposes of the NFL draft, but also both possess the quickness, reaction time, and fluidity in coverage to handle the WILB spot for our defense. In addition, since Pettine wants to use a hybrid front, he is the ideal guy you would like to be at WOLB when we show a 4-3 look. Van Noy is much better at shedding oncoming blockers than the other LBers in this class and also is good in coverage, which believe to be essential skills in this role.
I disagree here. I think Van Noy is a stiff player that only moves well in one direction.
Here's my list for #35:
1) WR Marqise Lee 2) LG Joel Bitonio 3) WR Jordan Matthews
I don't really think we need to get a wide receiver but those two guys are good. Personally, I think Lee is a nice match for Manziel. Lee gets himself amped up during the games and gets visibly frustrated when his QB doesn't seem totally locked in or throws the ball away insted of giving him a shot. Manziel is a guy that keeps his teammates involved and doesn't give up on plays.
Moncrief I think is a total non-fit because that guy just completely quits on the top of his routes. He is a lazy WR. He is not going to keep running and try to give his QB an opening, whereas Lee is going to try and find a way to get the ball every play.
JMO.
Here's my list if we trade back from 35 after those 3:
Quote: Wonder where the the kid from Ohio State " Jack Mewhort " might fall ??
Anywhere from 50-110, really. Really like him, but his best fit is as a RT in a power scheme. In our scheme he could work out as RG maybe though, but should be ranked lower by us because of it. If he falls to the 4th? sure do it.
Well we seem to be on the same page with this one .. Really wonder what he could do at right guard ! I also like that TE Gillmore out of Colorado some place in the later rounds ..
Quote: FWIW, Adams drops a lot of passes, too. He also gives up yards trying to make a big play. Lee, OTOH, gets open all day.
Not sure what Adams you are watching... he has amazing hands.
CBSSPORTS - "...consistently wins at the catch-point, demonstrating good leaping ability, timing, and hand-eye coordination. Tracks the ball well and has strong hands to pluck the ball when turned towards the quarterback."
NFL.com - "Has a rangy build with good body length and secure hands to palm the ball and make difficult one-handed grabs. Tracks and adjusts to the ball very well downfield. Extends outside his frame and plucks the ball out of the air. Natural hands-catcher. "
Scouts Inc - "Ball Skills - 1 (Elite) - Focus drops are few and far between. Will occasionally double catch the ball. But overall ball skills are very good. Natural catcher of the football. Plucks on the run with confidence. Quick and strong hands. Outstanding natural hand-eye coordination. Shows good body control to adjust."
I've watched a lot of Adams, and it all backs this up. He probably has the best hands in the draft after Evans.
With al due respect here Candy, but it is a meaningless stat when saying 5% is so much better than 12%. We're talking a handful of drops maximum difference over a year and it does not say anthing about how much they get open to begin with or how accurate their QB was and more importantly in which situations and what routes they mostly ran etc...I know for a fact that Lee was much more physical and worked over the middle more. Automatically the drop rate goes up on that alone. An Adams was in the Fresno system catching tons of screen washing down his drop %....it's a vacuum stat, that at best explains what should be explained and examined further. As an end analysis, it's weak
Quote: And Toad, I guess you haven't watched XSF play. I agree, if I just read profiles of him, I'd think he'd be a win at this point, but if you actually watch him play, he's awful on contact and that's an OL job, lol. That's the problem with only reading profiles and reading stats. Haven't you learned anything from pimping Jarvis Jones last draft?
Nope, haven't watched XSF play. I'm going solely based on whomever the highest rated guard is, and I don't know if that's XSF or not at this point. What I do know is that our guard-play has been very sad and we need help there to protect our smallish QB. This is the best chance for that coming up today.
As for reading profiles, you've got your facts bass-ackwards. I spent way too much time last year watching Jones, Mingo, and Jordan. My eye said Jones was the best of the bunch and I'm sticking to it.
Quote: With al due respect here Candy, but it is a meaningless stat when saying 5% is so much better than 12%. We're talking a handful of drops maximum difference over a year and it does not say anthing about how much they get open to begin with or how accurate their QB was and more importantly in which situations and what routes they mostly ran etc...I know for a fact that Lee was much more physical and worked over the middle more. Automatically the drop rate goes up on that alone. An Adams was in the Fresno system catching tons of screen washing down his drop %....it's a vacuum stat, that at best explains what should be explained and examined further. As an end analysis, it's weak
It's a stat, it's not the only stat... I'm sure if we are considering using the 35th pick in the draft on a guy we have watched enough tape to understand the circumstances behind the drops, whatever those might be.
With WR being so deep...I think we may hold out to either round 3 or 4 for a WR...ILB is a huge hole...But I see none deserving of this pick (as the available ILBs all seem to be more of very late 2nd or 3rd round and down guys) OG/OT is another huge hole...and a lot of talent still on board...barring a trade down I think this is where we go...
I kind of hope we manage to slide down just a little...and pick up another pick in round 3 because we have some holes still
Quote: I disagree here. I think Van Noy is a stiff player that only moves well in one direction.
he was hard to judge because they had him attacking almost exclusively. but, when he did stay back he seemed to be able to turn his hips well and stay with the guy he was on. what really has me on him is that he is so good at shedding blocks and creating space. But, I still prefer the WRs at this stage (and there are other LBers like Christian Jones that I like whom we can get a bit later).
Quote:
Here's my list for #35:
1) WR Marqise Lee 2) LG Joel Bitonio 3) WR Jordan Matthews
I do love Bitonio. here was my write-up on him
Bitonio is the most athletic OL not going near the top ten of this draft as he was top four in all speed, quickness and jumping categories at the combine. He is a former top-prep power-forward and grew up doing mixed martial arts (his father was a professional), which is likely why he has such amazing balance and is so good with his hands. Mean SOB on the field who is also a noted leader in practice/film off the field and graduated with a degree in economics (statistic based). Also, after the season, he decided it might help his draft stock if he learned every position on the OL, which he did by the Senior Bowl (and had a great week). He isn’t the strongest guy, has shorter arms (so OG/OC only) and Nevada did almost exclusive 2-pt stance (though he looked fine in a 3pt in the Senior Bowl). If he can add strength, then he is the prototypical ZBS OG.
Quote: Lee has the 2nd worst drop % of the "top 8" WRs. Kelvin Benjamin was the worst.
Actually Lee is worse than Benjamin, pretty significantly (12% to 9%)
yes, Lee was worse in the statistic but I watched nearly all the USC games and alot of those drops were him adjusting to terrible balls and getting over to them just to have a chance. his QB play was terrible, defenses were completely focused on him, and he was playing hurt. the '12 WR didn't disappear. I'd take him.
I'm still basking in the afterglow of the Bills 2015 First Rounder, Gilbert (my 2nd rated CB below Dennard) and JFF!!!
My best fit at 35:
Davante Adams
Very good measureables. 6'2 and 40in vert.
Highly productive. Highly!!! LOL 224 catches. 2957 yards. 37! TDs. in two seasons! A huge reason Carr was so productive.
Best covered catcher still available. Has a little Michael Irvin in him that way. He high points the ball really really well. Uses his body to shield. Then goes up and snatches the football.
Great safety blanket, who can beat man coverage and that's really what you want in a flanker (Z). Which is what we need.
Half of those plays are Derek Carr seeing coverage and simply throwing the football his way without even thinking, no questions asked. hahahaha
If you can't see Manziel throwing it up to this guy...1on1...with coverage rolled to Gordon at X and attention being paid to Cameron and often Hawkins on his side...after watching those highlights then I don't know what to say.
Here's a small write-up:
Adams had extraordinary stats against ordinary talent as the favorite target of highly rated quarterback prospect Derek Carr in Fresno State's spread offense. Adams caught 233 passes for more than 3,000 yards the last two years, including leading the nation with 131 grabs in 2013. Well-built, aggressive, natural hands catcher who makes himself a larger target with that leaping ability that allowed him to soar 39.5 inches in the vertical jump. Frankly: Adams is a 21-year old third-year sophomore who shows his smarts by leaving college the same year as his prolific quarterback. Regardless of competition level, he didn't drop the ball in college and it's hard to believe he will start doing so as a pro. - Frank Cooney, NFLDraftScout.com
One of those guys need to be Browns. Getting Lee would be an incredible coup in my opinion, because without the injury he's a top 15 pick this year........heck in any other draft he's a top 10 pick regardless.......this draft is just LOADED.
I really want Lee at 35 ..... but it wouldn't surprise me to see the Browns try and leverage that pick to a team trying to get ahead of the Raiders for a QB.
Probably in that order. But I don't know enough about the available guys to know which we should get in the 2nd. We've got an early 3rd too.
I am with you in what ever order we can get the best on our board. Right now we can still get a good WR and guard and see about LB in the forth and then fill some depth.
Gordon is one bong hit away from gonzo, Burleson is an old stop gap on a one year minimum deal and Hawkins will be lucky to suit for 12 games this season. Yeah, we still need a WR. Lee covers them all in case. He has WR1 upside, easy WR2 day one projection and works out of slot too. We have no perimeter WRs outside of Gordon and Burleseon. If one misses time, it's Little again. Benji is a retuner who you can line up 5 plays a game and run straight ahead, a gimmick-one trick pony WR4-only. We have zero depth and shaky (for different reasons, see above) reliability from the top 3
As I'm eating lunch and scrolling down it dawned on me...even though I think Throw Long mentioned it but with him who knows...lol
Nobody has taken a TE yet??? Getting the best at a position is a pretty good thing.
Reason I brought it up...although just rumor stuff but there was some indication that Cameron is going to let his contract run out and test FA hoping for a West Coast Suitor...Should we not prepare for that. Get another offensive Stud TE...we got the blocking TE but the Weapon guy to take the place of Cameron...this is what good teams do. Not suffer when they lose a talent that would mean over payment on a position like TE...NO is going to pay for that Graham contract or simply he won't see it.
So it wouldn't surprise me if we draft the best TE Impact weapon out there.
Thanks guys...hope you get when I put a ??? I'm looking for help on that - thanks. Was 3 hours north of me at a first cousin's funeral (I only got 1more - small family) So I recorded the draft and watched late at night...went fast through a couple of picks and missed that. Didn't do my usual print up 300 top prospects and check them off one by one as I usually do.
That why I like this board and Browns fans in general...wealth of knowledge to be shared
There is still some 1st rd talent on the board. I wouldn't be surprised to see us trade down a few spots and pick up a 3rd or 4th. Other than that, if not M. Lee, then we need to look at Bitonio or ILB...
Quote: Gordon is one bong hit away from gonzo, Burleson is an old stop gap on a one year minimum deal and Hawkins will be lucky to suit for 12 games this season. Yeah, we still need a WR. Lee covers them all in case. He has WR1 upside, easy WR2 day one projection and works out of slot too. We have no perimeter WRs outside of Gordon and Burleseon. If one misses time, it's Little again. Benji is a retuner who you can line up 5 plays a game and run straight ahead, a gimmick-one trick pony WR4-only. We have zero depth and shaky (for different reasons, see above) reliability from the top 3
I get the Gordon concern, but Haden is in the same boat and any guy could go down for the year in a blink. Lee is an interesting choice as insurance. 6' 192. with a knee injury. Durability seems to be his biggest knock. I'm okay with a WR later on. I don't think the drop-off would be huge from #35 at the WR spot.
I like Burleson. He started very strong last year and had a stellar catch-per-target ratio. He fed very well off MegaTron, so I see him as an ideal target opposite of Gordon. His 2 injuries were both broken bones, which usually heal well. Its not like a nagging injury or knee injury. Hawkins was obviously a priority, as we went after him early and were willing to wait on Cincy. I think Farmer wants to use him.
TFY Draft Insider's Tony Pauline reports USC WR Marqise Lee slipped out of the first round due to "red flags on his injured knee."
Lee played through a recurring knee injury last season for the Trojans, seeing his stock fall by the wayside after many projected him as a future top-ten or even top-five overall pick. Per Pauline, there were "whispers" Lee's condition was "worse than USC was letting on." Pauline concedes Lee should be drafted "quickly" on day two. The Browns at No. 35 look like a prime landing spot.
That can be good or bad. If he checks out, we might get a steal. Heck, maybe we get our Sammy Watkins today. But, if the fear is losing Gordon, that leaves us with Little and a bunch of 6-footers.
I won't be upset either way. But I'd prefer to take a WR later in the draft and focus on OLine or an upgrade for Robertson.
TFY Draft Insider's Tony Pauline reports USC WR Marqise Lee slipped out of the first round due to "red flags on his injured knee."
Lee played through a recurring knee injury last season for the Trojans, seeing his stock fall by the wayside after many projected him as a future top-ten or even top-five overall pick. Per Pauline, there were "whispers" Lee's condition was "worse than USC was letting on." Pauline concedes Lee should be drafted "quickly" on day two. The Browns at No. 35 look like a prime landing spot.
I'm of the G/WR mentality. I think Allen Robinson could be a top notch WR on this team as the #2 or the slot guy. I don't know if 35 is too high for him, though.
I would take Carlos Hyde over any OL at 35. I just don't see the value of an OL at that spot, especially for this team. We already have a line that was exceptional in the WCO/ZBS 2 years ago, and even though we lost Lauvoa, we added a guy well versed in playing it from Seattle. We also have youth galore in backup roles. I firmly and strongly believe that Guards can be developed. Investing a high pick in a Guard is a waste to me. We have quality on the OL. We have tons of young backups. We have far bigger needs than OL at this point.
Quote: I would take Carlos Hyde over any OL at 35. I just don't see the value of an OL at that spot, especially for this team. We already have a line that was exceptional in the WCO/ZBS 2 years ago, and even though we lost Lauvoa, we added a guy well versed in playing it from Seattle. We also have youth galore in backup roles. I firmly and strongly believe that Guards can be developed. Investing a high pick in a Guard is a waste to me. We have quality on the OL. We have tons of young backups. We have far bigger needs than OL at this point.
I agree completely. We have 4 guards that can play and 3 are starter quality but none elite. Gilkey should improve again this year but it would be nice to get a mid rounder to develop.
Pick Carlos Hyde with pick 35. I'm not comfortable with just Tate and a bunch of question marks. Pettine wants to grind out the running game, so we need two pounders. Plus we need defenses respecting our run game.
Then if possible, trade up to get a shot at Su'a-Filo.
And I still want to draft another QB. I think Tanney will be released before camp, and who knows about retreading Young and Thigpen. Let's face it, Manziel is a wild card.
Throw a wide out and a third down LB in the mix somewhere in later rounds.
Kouandjio would be a steal, but doesnt he have some serious injury issues?
He was the top tackle in the land 2 years ago. He dropped bigtime for some reason.
I wasy we gotta go with Lee or Hyde.
I didn't know about his injury. Bummer. I don't love Hyde. I don't love any RB before the 3rd round. I think Lee is good but I think Mathews is a top flight WR in disguise. I haven't watched a lot of Lee but the grumbles about suspect hands I've read worries me tremendously. MAthews on the other hand is noted for his exceptional catching.
Kouandjio would be a steal, but doesnt he have some serious injury issues?
He was the top tackle in the land 2 years ago. He dropped bigtime for some reason.
I wasy we gotta go with Lee or Hyde.
PLAYER NEWS 05/08/2014 - 2014 DRAFT SCOUT FINAL TOP 100: 29/4. *Cyrus Kouandjio, OT, Alabama, 6-7, 322, 5.50, 1-2...It is unclear if Kouandjio's durability is more of a concern than his ability, but it became a topic at the combine after several teams mentioned he was not given a clean bill of health due to a residual, arthritic condition in his knee. He underwent surgery after a season-ending injury in 2011. The player and his coach, Nick Saban, dismissed such concerns, saying Kouandjio played well in all 27 games through the last two seasons. Furthermore, Alabama coaches believe he can be better than former linemate D. J. Fluker (No. 11 overall in 2013, San Diego Chargers). Frankly: There are no guarantees on anybody and Kouandjio showed plenty of raw ability after his 2011 surgery. Still, don't let that discussion obfuscate the fact that Kouandjio still has more promise than polish and although he has NFL strength, those tree trunk legs may not be quick enough for left tackle. - Frank Cooney, NFLDraftScout.com
- Minor injuries concerns due to slight frame and recent knee injury
Allen Robinson
The Big Ten's leading receiver the last two seasons, Robinson is a big, fluid, outside receiver with a nice combination of "above-the-rim" prowess and run-after-catch ability. Offers possession skills, playmaking ability and red-zone utility to develop into a solid No. 2 option.
I would take Robinson because he was the go to guy at Penn State.
Ok, I went back, and watched ever receiver who could reasonably be in the 2nd round. My rankings would be as follows:
Marquise Lee - Definitely the most polished. Does a very good job finding the middle in zones. Not afraid to go through traffic in the middle. Sometimes doesn't fight for the contested ball. Drops too many passes.
Davante Adams - Amazing hands (didn't see a drop in three games I watched). Large catch radius. Has some speed to beat opponents deep. Not a polished route runner. Doesn't do a good job coming back to the ball, or finding holes in zones.
Jordan Matthews - Big guy with a large catch radius and above average hands. Could be a deep threat due to size and straight line speed.
Cody Latimer - Solid route runner and posession receiver. Not a ton of upside as a deep threat or anything like that. Doesn't show the 4.4ish timed speed on game film.
Bruce Ellington - Undersized, but with quite a bit of speed. Not near as elusive as Cooks though. Probably a slot receiver in the NFL.
Donte Moncrief - A bit of a project with huge upside. Fast, agile with great physical gifts. Hands are suspect.
Allen Robinson -- Honestly, just too slow. Lumbering compared to everybody else on this list. Solid College receiver with good hands and leaping ability, won't get separation in the NFL. Long strider.
Lee is a bit above Adams/Matthews, but it's close (close enough that I would think long and hard about a trade down).
Also, on the OT/OG side. I have it:
Morgan Moses - Much better than the others on this list, but I don't know that he fits a ZBS well. I'm not a scheme wizard, so I'm not sure. His feet are pretty good, he needs to play RT (couldn't play ZBS guard). Has a wide body, and doesn't allow many people around it. Has a mean streak, and looks to pancake opponents (he frequently succeeds) - doesn't always play until the final whistle though (not usually a big deal - but will be with Manziel at QB).
Joel Bitonio - Plays with a mean streak, good technique and solid feet. Needs to get stronger to play at the NFL level.
XSF - I really hated on him before, but going back and rewatching the tape, I pin a lot of the problems in pass protection on scheme issues (some of which were caused by the LT getting injured and XSF sliding over to LT). I already knew he is a great run blocker, with good feet. But he still lets too many guys through by letting defenders get under his hands in pass protection -- maybe correctable?
Still need to watch Kouandjio - since I think the drop is mostly due to injury concerns, which I don't know anything about. But from previous film I know he is very talented, and would be a geat pass protector at RT.
- Focus runs hot/cold - Catches too many balls on his body - Average vertical speed - Tips off defenders when running routes - Suspended for disciplinary issues
- Focus runs hot/cold - Catches too many balls on his body - Average vertical speed - Tips off defenders when running routes - Suspended for disciplinary issues
Quote: Well, with Gordon likely getting suspended this year I think we need a WR in a bad way. We need a #1 WR.
Farmer and Pettine don't seem to agree. They passed on the best WR in the draft.They seem happy with our group as is. If Gordon goes down, Little is the man.....
I dunno... is the drop off really that far from Watkins to Lee or one of the other top WRs left? It's just so deep this year. I think this next pick is locked in as a WR though. Has to be at this point doesn't it?
I'd like the best inside LB on their board. You see what the Steelers and Ravens did? They know how to build a 3-4 defense. Linebackers. Two years in a row the Steelers drafted a 1st round LB. They'll probably do it again next year. You want to run a 3-4 you have to have the guys that make it work. Corners are important, but linebackers are the heart of the D. I hope we pick up a couple this year. We could use a Guard and RB as well. I don't think taking Hyde would be reaching. Just about everyone has said he's a 2nd round RB. We shall see.....
the limited route-running experience should tip anyone off that it's erroneous. Lee is the best route-runner from a full-tree route offense in this draft.
If this is actually true Farmer and Pettine are flat out dumb for passing on Watkins. If they KNOW Gordon is out for the year and we passed on a #1 WR? Well, they better plan on Ground and pound all year. Because as it stands Little would be the #1 with Gordon gone.....
Quote: If this is actually true Farmer and Pettine are flat out dumb for passing on Watkins. If they KNOW Gordon is out for the year and we passed on a #1 WR? Well, they better plan on Ground and pound all year. Because as it stands Little would be the #1 with Gordon gone.....
not dumb for passing on Sammy considering we get the 1st in '15. but, we better not pass on one at 35
Maybe thats why Petine wants to ground and pound cause he knew he was losing gordon to a drug test. Better p/u another big running back like Jeremy Hill from LSU
Just announced on NFL Network that three different sources have said he failed a drug test. So Gordon is probably out for the season. Watkins would have looked pretty good right about now, All I can say is a WR we take now BETTER catch 80 balls and double digit TD's. We passed on the best WR in the draft and now our ONLY weapon at WR is GONE? I hope they plan on running the ball 400+ times this year. Because we now have VERY little chance at throwing the ball. THIS is the only reason I wanted Watkins. I'm not usually a WR at the top of the draft believer. But with Gordon one F-up away from a years suspension.....
Can we just assume that Josh Gordon is Done For Ever and move on and see how this team looks without that player.
edit: Hey one more reason to tell your kids, " hey don't try pot" and all these folks who try to have conversations with me, saying, Pot is not bad, ... " it's not a drug its a plant. "
Live long enough, your're going to learn of somebody who went to jail for life, for pot, somebody who died, and it was the end of a road that started with that. Just, just don't try that.
1) WR Marqise Lee 2) LG Joel Bitonio 3) WR Jordan Matthews
I do love Bitonio. here was my write-up on him
Bitonio is the most athletic OL not going near the top ten of this draft as he was top four in all speed, quickness and jumping categories at the combine. He is a former top-prep power-forward and grew up doing mixed martial arts (his father was a professional), which is likely why he has such amazing balance and is so good with his hands. Mean SOB on the field who is also a noted leader in practice/film off the field and graduated with a degree in economics (statistic based). Also, after the season, he decided it might help his draft stock if he learned every position on the OL, which he did by the Senior Bowl (and had a great week). He isn’t the strongest guy, has shorter arms (so OG/OC only) and Nevada did almost exclusive 2-pt stance (though he looked fine in a 3pt in the Senior Bowl). If he can add strength, then he is the prototypical ZBS OG.
well, CleveSteve and myself at least are happy with the Browns selection.
Bitonio is very good. He really showcased himself at Senior Bowl week and against Barr (UCLA v. Nevada game).
Stop being drama queens.... Its a definite blow but 1 man doesnt make a team.
Haven't figured out the purple text yet, huh? Maybe you should learn how the site works before putting your foot in your mouth.
Maybe you should reread it and learn English. Maybe you will see that it is directed to the initial quote(reason for including it) not last one in purple. And directed to everyone flipping out(reason for using plural of Drama Queens)
And I'm just not quite sure how I'm putting foot in mouth even if you were correct
Quote: I know you are joking, but wouldn't mind a LBer. be elite on one side of the ball. might be an ILB from that on defense now.
we shall see though. I really like the guys we have picked thus far.
I'm not joking at all. An ILB makes perfect sense. Play great D and run the ball. That was the Jets way when Pettine was there. Ground and pound. Seems like the best plan for us this year.... and we need linebackers! Steelers have taken one in the 1st two years in a row. CAN'T have enough linebackers in this D.
Quote: I know you are joking, but wouldn't mind a LBer. be elite on one side of the ball. might be an ILB from that on defense now.
we shall see though. I really like the guys we have picked thus far.
I'm not joking at all. An ILB makes perfect sense. Play great D and run the ball. That was the Jets way when Pettine was there. Ground and pound. Seems like the best plan for us this year.... and we need linebackers! Steelers have taken one in the 1st two years in a row. CAN'T have enough linebackers in this D.
okay, well then I agree with you. wouldn't mind a LBer or a S.
I'd go with Bruce Ellington, WR, South Carolina. I know he is only 5' 9", but I just really like him. Actually compares favorable to Brandin Cooks, who the Browns were rumored to like in round 1 before the Saints took him at 20.
Moncrief and Bryant would be okay too, and have the size profile of true #1 recievers, but I like Ellington.
Look at my sig...and at 35 no shopping list for me the guy I wanted was Bitonio. I did think possibly a TE in case we lose Cameron but that was like those thinking because of Gordon we had to go WR...never never ever pick out of desperation...That is how you get Trent and Weeden!
Most important the forgotten man is Gilbert. This kid is elite. The kid we took Desir we could convert him to be a Safety and of course special teams.
But usually I never get my guy. I liked our first pick but at 4 thought No Way we are taking a CB that early. So he wasn't even a thought of mine...props to the dawg on this board who wanted him cause it was a thread about him or guys liking him that made me watch him and think wow he's awesome, too bad we won't take him at 4.
But Manziel at #4 - steal at 22, I did say he would drop cause the last sub 6'er QB to get drafted in the first was Bob Griese back in the 60's??? So so happy he's been my guy. see signature
But to get my guy in the 2nd so so many wishes in that round and I never get my guy. This kid is nasty has excellent footwork, look at his knee bend...look how he keeps his knees over his ankles while moving. Look at his power, speed...man o man, possibly our best Interior OLman we are going to have, don't wish to say ever cause our best were in such a long time ago era hard to compare. But yes, better than Stienbach
jmho this is me even with the Gordon news...pfft WR who cares! ain't going to let that druggie ruin my day.
I want serious depth at CB, because the position is just that important. The Hawks lost a top flight CB to suspension, but their depth carried them to the Super Bowl. Let's build, and maintain, depth at CB. 
but I would still like if we picked him, especially over XSF, ZBS or not, Gabe is a much, much better OL, but we agree on XSF 
.. Really wonder what he could do at right guard ! I also like that TE Gillmore out of Colorado some place in the later rounds ..
