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Posted By: lampdogg Beating the Chiefs - 09/07/21 01:06 AM
How will we approach this?

I’m not an X n O guy like many on here, but here’s what I would do on offence:
the same things we did to pile up wins last year.

1.) run the best RB tandem in football behind the best OL in football.
2. Use Bake in play action and let him find the open guy.
3. Watch our playmakers score TDs.

On D: we might not be as in synch next Sunday as we hope to be later in the season, but we’ve upgraded our backend and hopefully, that’ll help our biggest unknown: the interior DL.

IF Kansas City isn’t sharp with their OL, we’ll feast on that like lions on raw meat.

I think we should double Tyreek, put our best cover corner on their second-biggest WR threat, and let JOK do the heavy lifting when it comes to minimizing Kelce’s impact.

What are your thoughts on how we can win the opener for the first time since 2004?
Posted By: OrangeCrush Re: Beating the Chiefs - 09/07/21 01:56 AM
I'd rather have JJ3 covering Kelce than a rookie in his very first game.
Posted By: Iluvmyxstripper Re: Beating the Chiefs - 09/07/21 02:05 AM
Run.the ball control. Keep the ball as much as you can out of the Cheifs offense
Posted By: BADdog Re: Beating the Chiefs - 09/07/21 03:28 AM
Originally Posted By: OrangeCrush
I'd rather have JJ3 covering Kelce than a rookie in his very first game.
put JOK on him until it doesnt work. Then go to plan B
Posted By: SuperBrown Re: Beating the Chiefs - 09/07/21 06:11 AM
Who's going to cover Hill?
Posted By: Dawgs4Life Re: Beating the Chiefs - 09/07/21 09:34 AM
We’re going to have to score 40 points IMO. It’s futile to bank on the defense to stop them when they are at full force.

Whatever it takes to exploit their defense
Posted By: BADdog Re: Beating the Chiefs - 09/07/21 11:49 AM
Originally Posted By: Dawgs4Life
It’s futile to bank on the defense to stop them when they are at full force.



Not this year
Posted By: PrplPplEater Re: Beating the Chiefs - 09/07/21 04:16 PM
It's all a pretty tall order.

In our last game, offensively we couldn't get much going against them. Defensively, we couldn't really stop them until Mahomes knocked himself out of the game. Even then, we STILL couldn't stop them from giving Chad Freakin Henne a 75% completion rate and salting away the game.

So, yes, our roster is much better defensively, but we really aren't any different at all on offense. We know a bit more, we have an idea of the things we were able to get some success with, but they know this, too.

Flat out, we cannot win this game on offense. If we're going to win, this newly remodeled defense is going to have to light the way.

As much as I want us to win, the more I think about it the more I feel it is likely we lose this opener, but will be well primed to beat them when we meet again in the play-offs.
Posted By: PrplPplEater Re: Beating the Chiefs - 09/07/21 04:22 PM
IF.... IF ... the defense can SLOW them down so we don't have to become an unbalanced offense and we can keep running the ball, then we can beat them. The defense doesn't have to shut them down; they just need to make them mortal; make them struggle as much as our offense does.

Chubb and Hunt each averaged over 5 yds per carry, yet we ran it less than 20 times and barely cracked 100 yds total between them, while we threw the ball almost exactly twice as many times. If we can keep the KC offense slowed to where they aren't executing drives at will like we aren't even out there, then we can stay balanced and wear them down over the long haul.
Posted By: PrplPplEater Re: Beating the Chiefs - 09/07/21 04:28 PM
Another thing that stands out massively from the last game:

Jarvis Landry had SEVEN catches.... for 20 yards.
That cannot happen again. He is our #2 WR; he CANNOT average less than 3 yds per reception. I haven't gone back to rewatch the game, so I can't comment on the How and Why of this, but he simply cannot have so many dink & dunk catches. Nobody can. We cannot dink and dunk; we need to actually beat their secondary.
Posted By: oobernoober Re: Beating the Chiefs - 09/07/21 04:38 PM
I think the key to our defense will be how many 'big' plays they can manage (sack/TFL, 3rd down stands, and obviously turnovers). I don't see our defense slowing them down as much as accumulating enough impact plays.
Posted By: PitDAWG Re: Beating the Chiefs - 09/07/21 04:47 PM
I think those expecting this defense to come out week one firing on all cylinders may be in for a disappointment. Not that I don't expect some improvement over last year, but I think later in the season the defense will have time to gel as units, ie... the DL, LB'ers and secondary.

While JOK is a very talented kid, expecting a rookie to come out game one and cover a savvy veteran like Kelce is asking for trouble. I agree with OrangeCrush that JJ3 would be the better option. JOK would be plan B.

While it's true you can use the run to set up the pass, you can also use the pass to set up the run. It works both ways. When we played KC last year we rushed the ball 22 times and passed the ball 37 times as an example. I agree with Dawgs4Life that it will be a high scoring game. I think Stefanski is aware of that and we will be throwing the ball early more than some seem to expect. To beat them we will have to do one of two things. Get out to an early lead and maintain that lead or keep scoring to stay close throughout the game. If we are close in the fourth quarter anything can happen.

On defense I think we will have to go one on one with their WR's on the edge. Their OL is suspect and I think if we know that, they know that. As such I think they will concentrate on Hill running short routes over the middle and 8-12 yard passes to Kelce to combat pressure. So by having one on one coverage on the edges it will allow for more bodies up close to cover their short passing game.

How much we run the ball will be dictated by the scoreboard and our ability to stop them from scoring. We won't be running the ball a lot of it turns into a shoot out. That's not how you keep up with your opponents while they're scoring 35-45 points. If you get a decent lead and your defense is doing well, you can use your running game to protect that lead.

Stefanski is a smart coach. As such, his game plan will evolve based on circumstances. Being stubborn and refusing to adjust your game plan based on what is happening while the game is in play is a recipe for disaster.
Posted By: dnadawg Re: Beating the Chiefs - 09/07/21 06:06 PM
I'm not an X&O guy either, but I would have a general strategy...

On defense would be to primarily playing off coverage and rushing only 4. This will give them several TD drives built on 10 & 20 yard plays, but the hope would be that you would get some sacks or PBUs at key times to end a several drives. This capitalizes on what is otherwise a weakness. Our guys haven't played together, so instead of relying on our defensive cohesion to choke the opposing offense out, you flood the back 7 with great individuals and let the talent of JJ3, Ward, JOK and Newsome win out in bracketed matchups of Kelce & Hill. Let the DL talent do the same. Maybe this way you stop them from scoring on 6/12 drives, and turn 3/6 of their scoring drives into FGs instead of TDs. That limits them to 30 points.

On offense, I'd run a lot, but get creative with those wide zones if possible. And use PA, but not a lot of naked bootlegs. I think they'll be looking for that. Then I might mix in a series or two with unexpected personnel where you go tempo. 23, 22, 20, 01, 00 personnel. Just show them something they haven't seen and don't give them a chance to sub. Also, design those pass plays as quick reads/decisions. Probably would do this in a "plus" spot, where we've come off a successful previous drive running our normal offense. I think out of 12 drives, maybe this way we can score 6/12 right along with them, and if we're lucky, score 4 TDs/2FGs for 34 points.

Lots of other variables will come into play, and adjustments should be made, but those would be my plans to start.
Posted By: dawglover05 Re: Beating the Chiefs - 09/07/21 06:24 PM
I remember wishing that we had kept running the ball during the game last year. There was one drive when we were coming back where we ran it a ton, and it was effective. I hope we can still stick with the run this game. KC's offense makes it very difficult for other teams to do that, though.

On defense, I don't want to blitz Mahomes because he loves that. We have to make sure we can get pressure with 4. That's what TB did and it obviously worked.

On the back end, hopefully we could develop a scheme similar to what the Patriots did. It was a lot of people in disguised coverage which didn't readily give Mahomes that easy 1-on-1 matchup to look for. Easier said than done obviously.

The other part that scares me is that Andy Reid is obviously a prolific offensive mind, and he's had all offseason to prepare for this game.

Not feeling great about this one, but we'll see.
Posted By: BADdog Re: Beating the Chiefs - 09/07/21 06:26 PM
Originally Posted By: dawglover05
We have to make sure we can get pressure with 4.


I think we will get pressure with 3 wink
Posted By: PrplPplEater Re: Beating the Chiefs - 09/07/21 06:30 PM
Originally Posted By: BADdog
Originally Posted By: dawglover05
We have to make sure we can get pressure with 4.


I think we will get pressure with 3 wink


With the DLine we're capably of trotting out there, and them having three rookies on their OLine, it certainly bodes in our favor that we may be able to dictate that they start going more two-TE/Jumbo in order to keep an extra blocker in. If we can do that with just four, that certainly helps our secondary a LOT because it's at least one less guy out in a route. Our LBers need to be ready for the chip screens, though or they will just eat us up in the area our DLine just vacated.
Posted By: CapCity Dawg Re: Beating the Chiefs - 09/07/21 07:07 PM
Don't let Chad Henne beat us with his legs.
Posted By: FloridaFan Re: Beating the Chiefs - 09/07/21 07:48 PM
Tampa Bay D, didn't let Mahomes escape to the sides, and in an effort to make a play, Mahomes just kept going backwards. Tampa was disciplined and maintained lanes more-so than trying to get the sack.
Posted By: FATE Re: Beating the Chiefs - 09/07/21 08:18 PM
Originally Posted By: FloridaFan
Tampa Bay D, didn't let Mahomes escape to the sides, and in an effort to make a play, Mahomes just kept going backwards. Tampa was disciplined and maintained lanes more-so than trying to get the sack.

This 100. Maybe easier said than done, but it was definitely "the formula".
Posted By: dawglover05 Re: Beating the Chiefs - 09/07/21 09:01 PM
It's a very similar formula to beating the Ravens, too. That gap discipline is so key.
Posted By: DCDAWGFAN Re: Beating the Chiefs - 09/07/21 09:11 PM
The keys.. don't make big mistakes, don't turn the ball over.. hope to have the ball at the end and a chance to win...
Posted By: SuperBrown Re: Beating the Chiefs - 09/07/21 10:41 PM
Originally Posted By: SuperBrown
Who's going to cover Hill?


I guess they will put Ward on Hill SuperBrown.

Posted By: PrplPplEater Re: Beating the Chiefs - 09/07/21 10:56 PM
Originally Posted By: SuperBrown
Originally Posted By: SuperBrown
Who's going to cover Hill?


I guess they will put Ward on Hill SuperBrown.



or, we'll put Hill on Hill, since Hill is really a slot WR and Hill is a slot CB.
Posted By: SuperBrown Re: Beating the Chiefs - 09/07/21 11:01 PM
I hope Hill is fast. Tyreeeek will be screaming down the sidelines.

We must get pressure on Pattycakes.
Posted By: GratefulDawg Re: Beating the Chiefs - 09/08/21 12:54 AM
Posted By: Pdawg Re: Beating the Chiefs - 09/08/21 01:13 AM
Originally Posted By: GratefulDawg


Tampa Bay tried to cover Hill one on one in week 12. Hill went for 203 yards in the first quarter. Now they didn't have Ward but I'm not sure I'd risk it.
Posted By: Steubenvillian Re: Beating the Chiefs - 09/08/21 01:20 AM
I think many are overlooking the fact that they are starting rookies on the Oline. I guess only our new Olineman need to gel. Offensive lines are crucial, and when you have one that is refurbished, they will struggle. I don't see KC being as explosive as they were last year, at least not out of the gate.
Posted By: OldColdDawg Re: Beating the Chiefs - 09/08/21 01:22 AM
Taking out Mahomes almost worked last time... just saying. wink
Posted By: THROW LONG Re: Beating the Chiefs - 09/08/21 02:47 AM
I don't agree with being unable to beat them with offense. The past is the past the future is next.
The Browns didn't have Odell Beckham, Anthony Schwartz, or Demetric Felton the last time these two teams played.

A lot of things can happen.
Maybe Tony Fields II is really good and they've just been hiding him.
Posted By: Brown to the Bone Re: Beating the Chiefs - 09/08/21 10:46 AM
Man I sure am biased no question but the reality is that this game is going to come down to the new look Browns Defensive line against the new look KC O Line.

Here is what I think, and by no means does this make me right 1000% but the Browns defensive line is truly good we don't have rookies manning key positions and pass rushers aren't reliant on scheme, it's head down and go.

With Garret on one side and Clowney on the other your talking one of the BEST defensive lines in the NLF regardless of how poor the middle is. These 2 are going to generate pressure, when you throw in McDowell who was the rage of the pre-season and Jackson your talking studs across the board. Jackson and McDowell are maulers they are going to get after it and bring some serious pressure up the middle.

Then lets look at the Chiefs new look O line, 5 count them 5 new starters 3 of which are rookies. So often we see matchups and salivate but this is a matchup that under any circumstance favors the Browns there just isn't a doubt.

That all said for sure Andy Reid is staying up late figuring out how to negate the Browns overwhelming advantage in this game. I think they are going to try to roll out PM otherwise he will be a sitting target.

They are bound to run a ton of crossing routes with Hill and Kelso that is a given, they are going to have to play small ball or the Browns D Line will swallow PM whole.

No question Hill and Kelso are monsters and they will no matter how bad the circumstance present a huge challenge to any backend and I think that will continue but the field got a lot smaller for the Chief who live on huge chunk plays, playing small ball isn't really what they do, not that they can't.

But given the monstrous advantage the Browns have in this game, I just don't see the Chiefs grinding out 12 play drives their just not that kind of team nor do I see the Browns being the type of team your going to consistently be able to do that. Somewhere in the process of trying to execute play after play the Browns are going to sack your QB, or come up with a turnover on the backend all brought about by the increased team speed the Browns will have on display and the pressure that PM most certainly be under in this game.

This game won't even be close if all things are equal the Browns should dominate the Chief. Maybe I am talking myself into this but this time I really don't think so???????
Posted By: Dawgs4Life Re: Beating the Chiefs - 09/08/21 11:38 AM
Another issue I’m worried about:

Last year our WRs simply could not get open. The Chiefs were jamming us and daring us to go over the top and we couldn’t. Now, maybe OBJ helps us in this area … or maybe we can have a better scheme after an offseason to look at it
Posted By: Brown to the Bone Re: Beating the Chiefs - 09/08/21 12:46 PM
Originally Posted By: Dawgs4Life
Another issue I’m worried about:

Last year our WRs simply could not get open. The Chiefs were jamming us and daring us to go over the top and we couldn’t. Now, maybe OBJ helps us in this area … or maybe we can have a better scheme after an offseason to look at it


Great point here and that is why you need someone like OBJ or Swartz so the Chiefs are forced to defend at every level. This game is going to be quite a bit different because OBJ is on the field.

Oh and they call what the Chiefs ran at us last year man press coverage. I would love for them to give it a second try.
Posted By: Dawgs4Life Re: Beating the Chiefs - 09/08/21 12:50 PM
Originally Posted By: Brown to the Bone
Originally Posted By: Dawgs4Life
Another issue I’m worried about:

Last year our WRs simply could not get open. The Chiefs were jamming us and daring us to go over the top and we couldn’t. Now, maybe OBJ helps us in this area … or maybe we can have a better scheme after an offseason to look at it


Great point here and that is why you need someone like OBJ or Swartz so the Chiefs are forced to defend at every level. This game is going to be quite a bit different because OBJ is on the field.

Oh and they call what the Chiefs ran at us last year man press coverage. I would love for them to give it a second try.
I hope OBJ’s presence changes the stuff we can (and they can’t) do. I also recall them taking away our bootleg game pretty substantially. Hopefully we can find some counters to it
Posted By: leadtheway Re: Beating the Chiefs - 09/08/21 01:14 PM
Man alot of hype from everyone including the media saying the browns are built to beat the chiefs etc.. I hate that kind of talk, you know the chiefs are hearing all that. Simply I'm not sure our defense will be up to the task simply because they have zero time together.. It takes time to know where everyone has to be on helps and whos covering what zone etc. This is a quick strike offense and they aren't interested in 12 play drives and they surely don't need them.. This is a chunk offense. Our secondary should be better but middle of our line and linebackers aren't really an upgrade. Andy Reid will exploit that. I think people are putting too much hope on JOK and Walker, JOK has to prove his size isn't going to be exploitable at that level and Walker isn't that good, He may be a better leader than goodson but he's not a better player, he was ranked 69 out of 72 last year.. Our best defense against these guys is in our ability to grind out 12 play scoring drives limiting KC's offense time on the field. I truly believe that will be our game plan. I think everyone on this offense will take a step forward this year and we will see an offense better than anytime in recent memory. Beating the chiefs is going to come down to two things, Getting to PM and establishing the run and PA and use as much clock as we can. If we have to rely on our defense to defend the pass and PH gets time to throw, it could get ugly, but I don't see anything in the chiefs defense that worries me that we can't move the ball on them, especially if Mathieu is out
Posted By: PrplPplEater Re: Beating the Chiefs - 09/08/21 02:46 PM
Originally Posted By: Brown to the Bone
Man I sure am biased no question but the reality is that this game is going to come down to the new look Browns Defensive line against the new look KC O Line.

Here is what I think, and by no means does this make me right 1000% but the Browns defensive line is truly good we don't have rookies manning key positions and pass rushers aren't reliant on scheme, it's head down and go.

With Garret on one side and Clowney on the other your talking one of the BEST defensive lines in the NLF regardless of how poor the middle is. These 2 are going to generate pressure, when you throw in McDowell who was the rage of the pre-season and Jackson your talking studs across the board. Jackson and McDowell are maulers they are going to get after it and bring some serious pressure up the middle.

Then lets look at the Chiefs new look O line, 5 count them 5 new starters 3 of which are rookies. So often we see matchups and salivate but this is a matchup that under any circumstance favors the Browns there just isn't a doubt.

That all said for sure Andy Reid is staying up late figuring out how to negate the Browns overwhelming advantage in this game. I think they are going to try to roll out PM otherwise he will be a sitting target.

They are bound to run a ton of crossing routes with Hill and Kelso that is a given, they are going to have to play small ball or the Browns D Line will swallow PM whole.

No question Hill and Kelso are monsters and they will no matter how bad the circumstance present a huge challenge to any backend and I think that will continue but the field got a lot smaller for the Chief who live on huge chunk plays, playing small ball isn't really what they do, not that they can't.

But given the monstrous advantage the Browns have in this game, I just don't see the Chiefs grinding out 12 play drives their just not that kind of team nor do I see the Browns being the type of team your going to consistently be able to do that. Somewhere in the process of trying to execute play after play the Browns are going to sack your QB, or come up with a turnover on the backend all brought about by the increased team speed the Browns will have on display and the pressure that PM most certainly be under in this game.

This game won't even be close if all things are equal the Browns should dominate the Chief. Maybe I am talking myself into this but this time I really don't think so???????



Did anyone see how their OLine looked in preseason?

Preseason is less about scheme and more about man-to-man battles. How did these rookies look against the various pass rushes they faced? Did they play a lot to get time working together? Were there any noticeable areas to exploit??

Would they be rolling with three rookies, knowing that their windows is NOW, if they weren't confident in them??


I think it is absolutely something to look at, but I wouldn't go putting all our eggs in that basket. I think that you have to try to exploit it, but you also have to assume they're good enough that you cannot and have another plan. Always have a plan, and then a plan if that doesn't work, and then a backup.

Two is One, One is None. Always have another way.
Posted By: dnadawg Re: Beating the Chiefs - 09/08/21 02:55 PM
PRPL,

I spent a bit of time on ChiefsPLanet. The fans there seem to think that it is a very minor concern, and that they aren't forced to start those rookies, it is simply that the rookies outplayed the vets that they had C-RG-RT. They also agree without hesitation that they can scheme for Garrett, and that our other DL are trash. I think that they will not feel this way by halftime.

They also talk a lot of trash about how Chris Jones, Frank Clark, and blitzers will destroy Baker. I think they forget they have to get through a top3 OL in between, and that being overaggressive may not be the best plan with Chubb n Hunt running straight at them.

Listen, I predict that they will win. But they seem to seriously believe we'll score like 10 points when the game is still in doubt, and that if we make it into the 20s, it will be garbage time.
Posted By: bonefish Re: Beating the Chiefs - 09/08/21 03:00 PM

Posted By: PrplPplEater Re: Beating the Chiefs - 09/08/21 03:12 PM
I also notice that their starting LT is former Raven Orlando Brown.

Quote:
They also talk a lot of trash about how Chris Jones, Frank Clark, and blitzers will destroy Baker.

They didn't destroy Baker in January, why would September be any different?

On our DLine being trash.... well, to be fair, we have a lot of POTENTIAL. One DE hasn't lived up to his hype for a large portion of his career, and the DT's are all generally complete unknowns. Billings is a "who the heck knows, but he hasn't looked good", and Malik McDowell is a "man, I hope he can do that against a real player", but the rest are a head scratch and a shoulder shrug. We just don't know. It will be interesting to see who is more correct about how our DLine goes by the time Halftime hits.... I think that one of the fan bases will be looking at our DLine and feeling deflated; I'm hoping it's them, but recognizing that it could be us.

After my last post, I did a little searching for reports on their OLine and couldn't find anything substantial in any way. I saw one report praising their rookie Center following the 49ers game, but perhaps of note is that there was a complete omission of mention of the other two rookies. Thuney is legit, but Garrett can bully Orlando Brown, and I'm betting that Clowney and Takk both can as well.


I've never been more curious, more excited, and more anxious to see what a D-Coord can dial up with a new group of players.


Posted By: Brown to the Bone Re: Beating the Chiefs - 09/08/21 05:27 PM
Originally Posted By: dnadawg
PRPL,

I spent a bit of time on ChiefsPLanet. The fans there seem to think that it is a very minor concern, and that they aren't forced to start those rookies, it is simply that the rookies outplayed the vets that they had C-RG-RT. They also agree without hesitation that they can scheme for Garrett, and that our other DL are trash. I think that they will not feel this way by halftime.

They also talk a lot of trash about how Chris Jones, Frank Clark, and blitzers will destroy Baker. I think they forget they have to get through a top3 OL in between, and that being overaggressive may not be the best plan with Chubb n Hunt running straight at them.

Listen, I predict that they will win. But they seem to seriously believe we'll score like 10 points when the game is still in doubt, and that if we make it into the 20s, it will be garbage time.


I have been to their boards they are low IQ fans in the pure sense from what I saw, sorta sad that they aren't more on top of their team all they really know is they win a lot.

I give their take on the game this weekend a -10 out a possible 100.
Posted By: dnadawg Re: Beating the Chiefs - 09/08/21 06:30 PM
BTTB,

I wonder what it was like before they had Mahomes, though. i.e. are they really low IQ, or when you can pencil in 12+ wins every season without much thought, do you just not bother digging into the little details of the team/game?

Would WE really care much about how our DTs are gonna look if we were virtually guaranteed a division win and #1/2 seed? I'd like to think so, but I have my doubts.
Posted By: dnadawg Re: Beating the Chiefs - 09/08/21 06:33 PM
PRPL,

I agree with that. I don't think we know for sure what we have on the DL yet. BUT, even an underperformer like Takk, an injury-prone guy like Clowney, and an aging talent like Jackson have all played in the leauge for years, and for that reason alone should win a fair share of 1on1's vs. 3 rookies trying to communicate and coordinate for the first time.
Posted By: SuperBrown Re: Beating the Chiefs - 09/08/21 08:39 PM
They have a crap offensive line. Great QB, TE and WR's.

Marginal D.

We will pressure Mahomeys!

Browns Roll...............
Posted By: Damanshot Re: Beating the Chiefs - 09/08/21 11:52 PM
Originally Posted By: SuperBrown
Who's going to cover Hill?


Contain Mahomes and it don't matter
Posted By: superbowldogg Re: Beating the Chiefs - 09/09/21 12:41 AM
I think we have to play 4-2-5 to beat Mahomes.

our setup should beat him more than he beats us
Posted By: Brown to the Bone Re: Beating the Chiefs - 09/09/21 10:28 AM
Originally Posted By: superbowldogg
I think we have to play 4-2-5 to beat Mahomes.

our setup should beat him more than he beats us



Mahomes practices every day against the 4 - 2 -5 if anyone is used to it he is. Our advantage is in how we run it. Pressure, Pressure, Pressure is the key fly to the QB.

JMHO
Posted By: FloridaFan Re: Beating the Chiefs - 09/09/21 12:22 PM
What scares me most is that Garrett likes to take the outside edge and come around behind the QB, and that plays right into Mahomes style, that lets him step up in the pocket or run through the gap left behind.

Have to play disciplined and keep Mahomes contained, stay in his throwing lanes.
Posted By: bonefish Re: Beating the Chiefs - 09/09/21 12:55 PM

I can not be certain how Woods is going to plan this game.

Malik Jackson is 6'5".
Malik McDowell is 6'6".

Both of these players can penetrate.

JOK does not take blockers head on. He jukes them and shoots for creases.

Interior guys work on drills to get hands up.

I have great respect for the Chiefs. Excellent team with the top qb, and an excellent coach.

This will be a great challenge. Two very good teams head to head on opening day.

All the talk and predictions come to the field of play now.

We shall see what happens.
Posted By: Dawgs4Life Re: Beating the Chiefs - 09/09/21 01:04 PM
The only way I’ll be totally discouraged is if they run us off the field.

Let’s not forget: they will have a max capacity crowd as well, which we never had to deal with last year as a visiting team. And that place is notoriously rowdy.

unless it’s something like KC 40 Cleveland 9 … I’ll try to keep my mind about the realistic chances we had going into the game
Posted By: Brown to the Bone Re: Beating the Chiefs - 09/09/21 01:13 PM
Originally Posted By: FloridaFan
What scares me most is that Garrett likes to take the outside edge and come around behind the QB, and that plays right into Mahomes style, that lets him step up in the pocket or run through the gap left behind.

Have to play disciplined and keep Mahomes contained, stay in his throwing lanes.


Not exactly true Mohomes takes the deepest drop in the league as much as 20 yards or more.

What Garret forces him to do is step forward in the pocket which makes him have to get rid of the ball quicker.

If McDowell is able to collapse the pocket from the middle, his time to deliver the ball will be reduced even further.

For those that have their doubts about McDowell, our all pro RT played him in college, he says he is the real deal, will find out on Sunday, can't wait!

Mahomes in the grand scheme of things moves well but his strongest asset is taking deep deep drops and simply waiting for someone to pop open.

He is known to hold the ball, not to take sacks but to buy himself more time and by having such a strong arm its sort of meaningless how far he drops that is a big reason why he does it. Like I said though Myles takes that away.

The combo of Myles and McDowell is lethal somehow the Chief revamped O Line is going to have to contain these 2 and I haven't even touched on Clowney.

Pressure from the outside working inside and McDowell pushing the pocket from the middle with a healthy dose of JOK coming from God knows where is going to force the ball out of Mahomes hand and if he takes off running with the team speed the Browns have he won't get far and he will be taking hits, that is really the key hit him, and keep hitting him.
Posted By: hitt Re: Beating the Chiefs - 09/09/21 01:37 PM
It is Thursday, we play Sunday. Here is the ULTIMATE WET BLANKET. We are STILL in a pandemic, Covid can't be seen and players are human. Last year we all had the JETS game wrapped up as an easy win and what happened.

IF our whole team gets to play we have a real shot. Go Browns!!
Posted By: TTTDawg Re: Beating the Chiefs - 09/09/21 01:49 PM
Originally Posted By: SuperBrown
They have a crap offensive line. Great QB, TE and WR's.

Marginal D.

We will pressure Mahomeys!

Browns Roll...............


Posted By: guard dawg Re: Beating the Chiefs - 09/09/21 04:51 PM
I re-watched the Superbowl recently. The Buccaneer ends rushed hard with an outside rush and even when they didn't get to Mahomes it limited the area for him to scramble around. This seemed to force Mahomes to retreat deeper from the line of scrimmage. A lot of these same plays also featured one or more Buc LBs breaking loose, sometimes late, through the middle of the Chief's OL.

My expectation is that our DEs can rush Mahomes the same way. I think the interior pressure is more likely to come from our IDL, particularly McDowell, even Elliott. It would be nice if Wu or one of the safeties can get schemed into an occasional blitz.

Offensively, I think we can score on them. The Bucs had their TE's involved a lot. They worked their Wr in a short to intermediate passing game effectively. Then of course they took their deep shots when they felt the situation was right. They were able to run the ball well which I"m completely confident that we will do.
Posted By: DCDAWGFAN Re: Beating the Chiefs - 09/09/21 04:52 PM
Originally Posted By: dnadawg
BTTB,

I wonder what it was like before they had Mahomes, though. i.e. are they really low IQ, or when you can pencil in 12+ wins every season without much thought, do you just not bother digging into the little details of the team/game?

Would WE really care much about how our DTs are gonna look if we were virtually guaranteed a division win and #1/2 seed? I'd like to think so, but I have my doubts.

KC is a historically good sports town for fans. I'm sure, much like this board, there are very knowledgeable people and less knowledgeable people. And if human nature is any indicator, the less knowledgeable people are probably the loudest and most obnoxious.

Heck if somebody visited this board for a short period before a game, they would likely come away with the feeling that nobody here knows what they are talking about, nobody can agree on anything, and we are very close to starting a civil war with each other.
Posted By: MemphisBrownie Re: Beating the Chiefs - 09/09/21 05:36 PM
j/c:

Posted By: oobernoober Re: Beating the Chiefs - 09/09/21 05:46 PM
I was always under the impression that the Chiefs had a fanbase that was kinda similar to the Browns (surprisingly large, deep-rooted fanbase that just doesn't get the attention other teams do). Obviously a recent SB and Mahommes at QB will bring a lot of fan attention.
Posted By: DCDAWGFAN Re: Beating the Chiefs - 09/09/21 06:52 PM
Originally Posted By: oobernoober
I was always under the impression that the Chiefs had a fanbase that was kinda similar to the Browns (surprisingly large, deep-rooted fanbase that just doesn't get the attention other teams do). Obviously a recent SB and Mahommes at QB will bring a lot of fan attention.

I would guess that KC football fans don't get a lot of attention because it has always been known, first and foremost, as a baseball town. But I have a hard time believing that sports fans who are that knowledgeable and passionate about their baseball team suddenly become passive idiots when it comes to their football team.
Posted By: Brown to the Bone Re: Beating the Chiefs - 09/09/21 09:50 PM
Go to their forum see for yourself.
Posted By: PitDAWG Re: Beating the Chiefs - 09/09/21 11:50 PM
Try reading this one. wink
Posted By: GratefulDawg Re: Beating the Chiefs - 09/09/21 11:57 PM
Posted By: Steubenvillian Re: Beating the Chiefs - 09/10/21 12:09 AM
When we start rookies, it is always said, they will struggle as all rookies do. When we revamp our line, it is always said they will need time to gel. My question is this, are the Cheifs rookies superstars? Is their coaching so much better that these guys will perform like probowlers?

Mahommes is great, and so is Kelce, but Tampa proved that if you keep the pressure on Mahommes, he can be beat. Also, the Raiders didn't play ground and pound when they beat them, they went all in and tried to score with them. It worked.

I just think it is comical how many are suggesting that a completely revamped Oline starting three rookies, are somehow going to play like a well oiled machine.

If we limit Kelce, we have a great chance of winning this game.
Posted By: THROW LONG Re: Beating the Chiefs - 09/10/21 12:53 AM
Browns could have probably just Drafed Travis Kelce but they probably ended up drafting a Defensive back to start for 2 years and replace with a rookie.
It's what they do.
Posted By: oobernoober Re: Beating the Chiefs - 09/10/21 01:14 AM
Having a great QB will definitely help mitigate whatever struggles they have in front of them... but yeah. Rookies are gonna rookie.
Posted By: Brown to the Bone Re: Beating the Chiefs - 09/10/21 02:25 AM
Originally Posted By: guard dawg
I re-watched the Superbowl recently. The Buccaneer ends rushed hard with an outside rush and even when they didn't get to Mahomes it limited the area for him to scramble around. This seemed to force Mahomes to retreat deeper from the line of scrimmage. A lot of these same plays also featured one or more Buc LBs breaking loose, sometimes late, through the middle of the Chief's OL.

My expectation is that our DEs can rush Mahomes the same way. I think the interior pressure is more likely to come from our IDL, particularly McDowell, even Elliott. It would be nice if Wu or one of the safeties can get schemed into an occasional blitz.

Offensively, I think we can score on them. The Bucs had their TE's involved a lot. They worked their Wr in a short to intermediate passing game effectively. Then of course they took their deep shots when they felt the situation was right. They were able to run the ball well which I"m completely confident that we will do.


Mahomes likes to retreat deep Guard in this case it backfired on the Chiefs most of the time it's a very effective tool for Mahomes it buys him that extra bit of time and allows his skill guys more time to break free.

I could be wrong here I thought during the KC game last year Romo mentioned that the Chiefs had actually told Mahomes not to retreat but to step forward, you simply can't retreat against the Browns with Myles coming on the outside. You me all of us know Myles works his way up the field then back in behind the QB. A QB who retreats with Myles coming from the backside would be committing suicide.

I always like it when guys say I watched the game, and this is what I noticed. Then you have guys that quote stats and there used to be a cat that posted on here a lot Daytona dawg or something was his handle and he used to get pissed when someone used stats to argue, he said "stats are for losers". He was sorta right too.

Someone used them on me the other day not sure who, but stats indicate trends but leave out a lot. The stat they used was that the Browns gave up almost as many points as they scored or maybe they even gave up more then they got don't remember. On the face of it, it was sorta alarming until you realized that some of those games were in bad weather and some we had the game in the bag by half time. We went into prevent and of course in the end the board looked closer then the game really was. Between the bad weather games and the blow outs we put together it made up about 30% of our games. What that means in that instance is the stats were misleading.

I would never use a stat as my one and only, eyes on the game a feel yeah feel mean far more IMO. Understanding the game and what is happening and why are far more important. Stats are a great place to start a conversation and are interesting but they hardly tell whole stories.

Wow that was a lot to say I liked how you presented your opinion.
Posted By: THROW LONG Re: Beating the Chiefs - 09/10/21 02:41 AM
"I would say losers say stats are for losers." Urban Meyer.
edit:
https://nypost.com/2021/08/05/the-bizarre-way-urban-meyer-will-determine-jaguars-roster-cuts/
Posted By: PitDAWG Re: Beating the Chiefs - 09/10/21 04:26 AM
Originally Posted By: Steubenvillian

I just think it is comical how many are suggesting that a completely revamped Oline starting three rookies, are somehow going to play like a well oiled machine.


Who has said that?
Posted By: OldColdDawg Re: Beating the Chiefs - 09/10/21 04:34 AM
Originally Posted By: PitDAWG
Originally Posted By: Steubenvillian

I just think it is comical how many are suggesting that a completely revamped Oline starting three rookies, are somehow going to play like a well oiled machine.


Who has said that?


Saw one of the talking heads call it a revamped Oline that is very good and will be a top three this year. Can't imagine that either and hope Garret and company dominate them whistle to whistle. Would love to see Mahomes sacked a record number of times in the opener. And if we somehow pull off the win, beating the best team in football for the last three years, well that's a hell of a way to end this opener losing streak if you ask me.
Posted By: PitDAWG Re: Beating the Chiefs - 09/10/21 04:47 AM
I just hadn't heard that. That's why most of us call them "talking heads".
Posted By: bonefish Re: Beating the Chiefs - 09/10/21 10:44 AM

What?
Posted By: Steubenvillian Re: Beating the Chiefs - 09/11/21 01:51 AM
Originally Posted By: PitDAWG
Originally Posted By: Steubenvillian

I just think it is comical how many are suggesting that a completely revamped Oline starting three rookies, are somehow going to play like a well oiled machine.


Who has said that?






Just read this thread. It is suggested many times. That's why I made the statement.
Posted By: THROW LONG Re: Beating the Chiefs - 09/11/21 09:02 PM
Originally Posted By: bonefish

What?


In that article which I found under a search for nfl news or jags news in August of this year, the subject of Urban Meyers unusual way of picking starters and roster spots was addressed.

Meyer was said to be using a system of plus' and minus' or wins and losses in individual one on one matchups or quizzes, or whatever, day after day, as to draw a score for each player and thus winners and losers.

Then it was commented that these are just stats and stats are for losers, where Urban Meyer was quoted to have said,
I would say losers say stats are for losers.


So, I think that is the correct link.

In Early games I think Beating the Chiefs', often times early season games come down to who can continue to play well, longer,
meaning the entirety of the whole 4 quarters.

Maybe everyone shows up and brings the HEAT in the first quarter and gets fired up, but as the entirety of the game goes one, which side continues to be able to BRING IT, on into the 4th quarter,
and many times, whole outcomes come down to 1 or 2 big momentum shifters, or 1 or 2 things that go right at crucial times.
Posted By: Brown to the Bone Re: Beating the Chiefs - 09/11/21 09:28 PM
And where is the STAT for that?
Posted By: THROW LONG Re: Beating the Chiefs - 09/11/21 10:08 PM
I think the Cheifs offensive line is going to be a well oiled machine,
have no reason to think otherwise because,
1. they have their head coach. (Not Bruce Arians, I confuse the two), he'll have them ready.

2. I have massive expectations for Creed Humphrey, Center, he's got the look of a hall of fame player, even if it's his rookie opener.
I wish the Browns would have drafted him, steelers podcasts talk about not drafting him...

3. Didn't they get another vet? yeah, Orlando Brown? yeah... nothing needs to be said.

I don't expect the Chiefs OL, to be a hiccup or major hurdle of bad play hurting the chiefs, it's wishful thinking to think they won't play adequate,
but this is the NFL,
The Browns just need to be, Stellar, and beat their adequate into the ground and onto their backsides. thumbsup

4. Chiefs podcasts are talking about if they'll use all 4 TE's on the field at the same time, so 2 or more to help out isn't out of the question, so, I think it's wishful thinking to think the Chiefs will have a pourous OL tomorrow.
Posted By: GratefulDawg Re: Beating the Chiefs - 09/12/21 12:06 AM
Posted By: THROW LONG Re: Beating the Chiefs - 09/12/21 12:37 AM
If you run for 400 yards total.

and 200 yards more on the ground than the Chiefs.

Then it will be hard for any other team to have a chance.
Posted By: THROW LONG Re: Beating the Chiefs - 09/12/21 02:55 AM
The Offensive line - and Pass protection.
Pass Protection - and the Offensive line.
The Running backs, and Pass protection, and
The Tight Ends and Pass Protection.
The Quarterbacks awareness, and Pass Protection,
The Offensive Line, and the Running Ability.

The Cleveland Browns are not built to win games with a terrible day by the Offensive line, period.

So there is the question if the Offensive Line is Ready on game day?

Turnovers
Turnovers
Turnovers. The Browns are not built, no NFL team can be, to win games while losing the turnover battle.

So there is the question if the defense has done enough to practice creating turnovers.
Sacks,
Quarterback Pressures
Flushing the pocket
The Raiders say if you get a +5 ratio of sacks and turnovers you'll win 90% of the time.

So there is the question of if the base D-line can get enough pressures and holding the edges without bitzes?
Posted By: Dawg Citizen Re: Beating the Chiefs - 09/12/21 03:46 PM
The offense is going to be one of the best in the NFL. The question is the defense and how much it has improved?

The key to beating the Chiefs is winning the time of possession. Keep Mahomes and KC's offensive off the field as long as possible. Have long, time consuming drives that result in TDs.

Also, don't have a lot of stupid penalties on offensive and defense.
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