First up - Raiders at Bengals. Pulling for the Raiders, because there's only one AFCN team I root for, and also because I like Derek Carr.

GO RAIDERS

You can run on the Bengals D

Wish Darren Waller was a Brown.

HERE COMES THE OFFICIALS

Remember that the Raiders dominated the time of poss. when they played the Browns a year ago, way back in 2020, nearly a year and a half ago.
Then I remember how the Raiders dominated the time of possession again, when they played the Browns this year. And on the opening drive which just came to a FG try, they used up until 9:29 in the first.

3-0 RAIDERS

If Joe Burrow became "Joe Cool" for smoking a cigar, what was Josh Gordon?

[quote=THROW LONG]

November 1, 2020 Time of Possession LV 37:43 CLE 22:17

December 20, 2021 Time of Possession LV 33:24 CLE 26:36

Joe Mixon reminds me a lot of Kareem Hunt.

Joey B is soooo much more effective in his offense than baker is.

(That’s me trying to be diplomatic in saying that burrow is so much better than mayfield at the QB position)

Please leave Baker out of this ... smh

Announcer says Raiders receivers "can all run". Good to know. Hard to get open walking or crawling.

The Game clock was at 4:31 before the extra point, and at 4:31 after the kickoff was settled and it was 1st and 10, I never watched that before, is that normal.

Did they really just say Ogunjobi is from a winning organization? Lol

Raiders need a Denzel Ward Pick 6

Cant believe the.Browns just let ogehjobi walk

Nice stop by LV D

10-3 BUNGALS

Lol. We’re not allowed to compare qbs ?

Bro, you need a hug.

Plant-based chorizo? GACK!

The Bengals Raiders game is approx. 1/3rd over. at 10:00 to go in the 2nd is the 1/3rd mark.

RUN THE BALL

A team can't win a super bowl if they let teams run on them like the Bengals let in those last 4 plays.

13-6

Analytics says the Raiders could use a turnover, and I didn't even need a computer or a slide rule or nothin!

Raiders couldn't have used a time out, a first half time out on a 4th and 1 in that situation???

Butrow making throws Mayfield wouldnt even.attempt

This game is now probably history

20-6

I guess there is a rule that you can’t compare any other quarterback to baker on this site. So please stop.

This is hog $#$#. Look at the protection Burrow has, it is making me realize how crappy the online was this year. He is throwing from a cocoon…albeit to superior receivers as well.

Raider fans in that stadium let out a cheer when that flag went against Cincinnati.

no rule but if you love Burrow so much maybe you might want to invest in a few tiger striped jerseys

There are a dozen other threads to discuss that in.
------

The Bengals already have over 16:30 in time of poss. and they get the ball to start the 2nd half, see, there is an analytic there that when people say, defense wins championships,
that having an offense that can continue drives keeps another teams offense on the sideline and therefore is a large help to your own defense!

I haven't seen any throws today that a healthy Baker Mayfield couldn't make. But what's the point, the Browns are out of it. Or are you just trying to provoke people? Does every single thread have to turn into a Mayfield debate?

That keeps the Raiders in the game 20-13

20-13, still a game.

I love the moxy of Carr…you know how hard it is to get moxy through a spell checker!!??

Honestly, Pastor.

I am a die hard Browns fan for 50 effing years. My love for this team has been tested for decades. My entire family roots for this team despite the fact that I haven’t lived in CLE since I was a kid.

To dismiss my level of love for this team because I compare a QB to Baker is rookie bullsh$T and totally unfair.

WTf?

If I want to be on the side of the Announcers' controversial realities, (obviously... unfortunately? ...) ways they describe it. )
So, for the remainder of this year we can only root for, ... The Raiders, Buccs, Patriots, Packers, Cowboys, and ?? . Everybody else is supposed to roll over and go belly up.

That guy is a total Bengals troll. Has the same posting style as a guy who has been doing this here for years. My guess is that he’s just been more careful as to not get caught like he did so many times before. Always propping up the Bengals and trolling the Browns. Same boring BS.

We live in Bengals territory. Never have I seen such fair weather fans. They are everywhere now with their excitement and their smack against the Browns. They are nowhere to be seen when they suck. Admitting they don’t even watch the games when they are bad. They are seriously the most annoying fans. It’s always amazing to me the slack and almost secret fandom of the Bengals there is on this board. You guys obviously never mingle with Bengals fans.

He sure sounded like it, its ok I have him on Ignore ...

Looks like an Achilles injury to Ogunjobi. Hope not.

Not only it would be nice if the benglas would lose, but if a bunch of their starters have to miss all of next season it may ...

( ONe of out local radio broadcasters has a good response to the apple watch commercials, )

" When the shark gets around to biting off your left arm, the apple watch is going to track the shark, they won't know where you are."

Came to say the same thing. Went down holding his calf after not much contact.

That's a bad call. I think it was a catch.

The announcers are doubling down on their (boy that's swell) about that earlier touchdown. As Hollywood is never allowed to lose.

Refs taking over.

Anyone think New York got in the refs' ears and told them to bet the under on the total score over the last 2 drives?

Raiders Fans discussed once 2 years ago, if they can get a +5 advantage in combined turnovers and sacks, they think they win 90+ or 98+ percent of the time.
That big sack in the last drive changed the momentum back toward the raiders.

man ref let them play

On 3rd and 8 the raiders tried a screen, I wouldn't bet against them to go back to the same play on 4th and 3.

Bengals losing all their defenders

If someone can teach A. Schwartz to draw pass int. penalties.

and Jessie Bates should have gotten a targeting penalty there.

3 holding calls on this drive.

There wasn't any holding, UNLESS, the refs have been told to keep the score low.

3 holding calls on one drive ...

I'm so sick of these ticky tack holding calls, and they let Myles routinely get headlocked with no call.

I'm pretty sure there's holding on every play. They just pick and choose when they'll call it.

That last holding call probably cost the Raiders 4 points.

Google says the line was 48.5 points on this game, right now they are at 36, that's a 12. - 13 points to go.

If they PREVENT a TD this drive, they go a long way to keeping that final score in the under colum. which is how it ended up.
now 39. (Almost like somebody is pulling puppet strings)

Absolutely the Bengals are struggling against the run and now are down 3 DL

Honestly, I’ve never been one to constantly criticize the refs, but it’s actually getting to the point where I think they might be influencing games. If I ever really let myself think that is happening, I’ll be done.

If you want to take a look into those dummies OL in 2021- It has to include, well the OL coach, but it has to include two players, Spain, and then Prince, without recognizing what they had in Spain and Prince they wouldn't have been as successful.
(Could look into how they ended up there, and what they were before)

9.5 points . what do ya think.

If this were the Browns I'd say Kick the FG, at this point.

Why are the Bengals going for it?

They’re not. But they should have just taken the delay of game instead of burning a timeout.

Two score game with 6+ minutes to go. Looking good for Cinci, dammit.

Burning a timeout there seems not great.

6.5 points to the over under.

Stellar camera work, NBC. Completely lost the receiver.

That seemed like a quick field goal, they didn't go for it?

They should have gone for it. They’ll never be closer to the end zone. They’re basically saying they rather try and Hail Mary from midfield rather than run a play from there. Not a great choice.

Wouldn't analytics say kick an onside kick there? A mid range onside kick, the 17-25 yard onside kick

Raiders only rushed 4 on 3rd and 8, and made a stop after a catch to get off the field. (Who knew that was a thing)

Raiders score they need to go for 2

As I said.

The game hit the under. 26-19

If the Raiders next coach doesn't keep Carr...the Browns need to do whatever it takes to get him. He's the main reason the Raiders even made the playoffs.

j/c...

Good game and good for the Bengals.

....if you consider the 9 yd line midfield.

the refs treated the raiders like the browns. It was always 2nd and 20 on every drive

Bill Cowher is asking if the New York league offices reviewed the audio... I can hear the audio, you can hear the audio, and we aren't even league officials. How could anyone reviewing it in New York "NOT" hear the audio.
It doesn't matter they will just make a new rule, that's what they do.

Carr would be a upgrade over Mayfield

Next Up PATS and BILLS

The TD pass to Tyler Boyd shouldn't have counted. The whistle had blown on the play. Ref thought Burrow had gone OOB, and Raiders' DB stopped playing. The question being, do booth reviews include audio?

The over under according to google is 44 on the bills pats game, it was 48.5 for the bengals raiders game.
well, that is less, but imo, I'd think this one would be higher scoring.

I guess 31-13 would still be only 44. How many does the loser of this game score?

Cincy's next matchup likeliest first
At Kansas City,
host the patriots
At Tennessee. They can't play buffalo next round, if I figured right.

Yet another game where NY NFL chose to review a play outside of 2min warning and change the call on tbe field without team having to challenge. What standard are they using to say what NY can challenge outside of normal challenge rules?

And he’s average.

j/c...

Allen was definitely trying to throw that ball away, right?

This year he's been clutch though. I'd say he's a little bit better than average.

Like I said…….

Either way. Saying someone who is a little bit better than average is better than our first overall pick after his fourth year is depressing.

Huh?

Carr was able to.galvanize the Raiders after losing Gruden, Ruggs
I just dont think Mayfield has that kind of ability to lead
When things around him take drastic turns

I think Mayfield would be an upgrade over Mayfield.
that he's average

that he's also clutch this year and therefore a little above average. Mayfield, > Mayfield.

--------
I think the analytics are bad on giving up a turnover in the first quarter of your opening playoff matchup.

This game is breaking big for a Bills' route, from early appearances.

Throw, I don't mean to sound crass or anything, but how much have you been drinking this evening? Mayfield > Mayfield?

Yep. Going to be a blowout.

Anyone that had Allen over 45 yards rushing is a winner.

It's pretty self explanatory, it also works in reverse. People need to open their eyes man, things don't stay stagnant.

Josh Allen looks a lot like the guy who plays Andy on Parks and Recreation (Chris Pratt). Good show, BTW.

Starlord?

Singletery is rocking !!

Lead singer of Mouse Rat.

April Ludgate's husband.

10 degrees that has to hurt kicking the FG

Burt Macklin.

Or Johnny Karate?

Great catch by Diggs.. I really hope the Bills win the Lombardi Trophy

This is what we thought the Bills were going to be before the season, right?

Yes.

Motor !!!

I really can't stand the stupid Gronkowski commercial .. "but I'm Special "

Agent Macklin? Janet Snakehole must be nearby!

Bill looks pretty fat

I wish we drafted Josh Allen....

I really want the operator to say: "YEAH YOU ARE!"

LOL !! SMH !!! Not over a Military personal who has fought for the freedom of this country !

I was refer to 'special needs'.... it's a joke...

Yes !!! Interception !!!

I know Jaybird that's why I laughed ! I totally got it and agreed It was funny !!!

Like he thinks he's more special then a vet !!!

Sounds good brother - just wanted to make sure you didn't think I was putting down military or veterans

Buffalo is truly rolling... I almost was hoping NE would score a TD just to make this game a little more interesting... but watching them get dismantled is pretty fun

Damn !!! that was a sweet throw for 6 !

The Bills are a solid #2 on my personal favorite NFL teams "2 team list".

Reason being?

Ralph WIlson was adamant on the Browns receiving "another" NFL franchise in 1999.

Imo, if it wasn't for him........

And he was Born in Columbus Oh and died in Michigan.... I agree TTTDawg !!!

Josh Allen...oh what could have been.

Thanks buddy boy.

Bills vs Patirots is one point from the over...
scratch that,
now 5 points above the over.

Folks... Wake up, he wouldn't have been very good had he come to Cleveland,

the Browns organization has a way of messing things up, like a clogged drain that needs draino of player development.

(like it or not, at least, recognize it.) Part of it is the whole league bias against, well in favor of all the accepted teams. The Browns are only accepted if they roll over and have a terrible team.

The Patriots scored over 50 points in 2 games this year, so if the Bills score 50 no Patriots should complain that they ran up the score.

j/c...

Fat guy TD. Rubbing Belichick's nose in it at this point.

He rubbed our noses in it 45-7. Love seeing his be rubbed.

Great Bills blowout win over the Patriots

Cleveland would (call to) fire Bellichic because he lost by 30+ in a playoff game, surely, they'd say, he's not good and never was.

your comparing one play off game to many.. wish the Browns have had that many play-off games !

Why do people assume good defenses equal low scoring games. Both of these teams have good defenses and the over under should have been about 63.5

Bills moving on !!!!!

j/c...

A few things from yesterday:

- Burrow and those WRs are fun to watch. I hate the fact that we’ll be charged with facing them for a long time.

- Raiders were playing with house money; IMO they aren’t a good team

- The refs continue to be an issue

- Buffalo had one of the best performances ever, especially in the playoffs

- The NFL is the haves (teams with QBs like Buffalo, KC, GB, CIN, etc) and the have-nots (teams without QBs like CLE, WASH, MIN, etc)

Take Chase away and Burrow drops down several notches. He throws 8 yd lollipops all game, then takes a few shots, mostly Hail Mary's to Chase, who mostly comes down with them. Burrow doesn't have one exceptional physical quality. He does have the mind. We'll see how far that can take him. If I play the Bengals, I double Chase and sit on every other route. If they can beat me that way, so be it. If Burrow were the QB of the Bills, the Bills would have been leading 13-10 going into the 4th quarter last night with a nail biter finish.

As for the haves and have nots comment, it's been that way in the NFL for 30+ years. We'd be watching the Browns this weekend had the QB play been better.

Chase is a incredible talent. He is already a top.3 NFL WR. But let's not pretend
Chase is what makes Burrow a rare talent.
Burrow was already showing evidence last year why he was drafted #1.
And that was behind one of the worst offensive lines in the NFL..
Burrow has the Bengals locker room believing they can beat anyone.
Burrow doesnt have one physical trait that makes you go wow.
But he has it where it matters when it comes to being a successful
NFL QB. Thats the mental apitude to read defenses

I am different. Last night I wanted the Bengals to win, tonight I will pull for the Steelers.

I may not be that way during the season. My allegiance goes whichever way needed to best help the Browns in the standings. Once we are punked out of the playoffs, I root for AFCN teams. It's not their fault they are better teams then we are. My thinking is their being better makes us better. I am the same way with the SEC.

Just because we failed doesn't give me reason to hope they fail.

I feel like, "Not that kind of special" would be a good line there.

I hope the stoolers get crushed and absolutely humiliated ending fat Ben’s career with him crying on the bench alone.

Sorry.

OJ has those same gloves on he got acquitted with

j/c...

The Ladies Man gets sidelined.

The article:

Jerome Boger, officials from Raiders-Bengals game not expected to work again this NFL postseason

By Adam Schefter
ESPN

Referee Jerome Boger and the crew that worked the AFC wild-card game between the Las Vegas Raiders and Cincinnati Bengals are not expected to officiate again this postseason after their problematic performance Saturday highlighted by a controversial whistle.

The NFL grades officials after each game, and Boger and his crew are not expected to receive high marks for Saturday, when they ruled that a whistle occurred after Cincinnati's Tyler Boyd caught a touchdown from Joe Burrow -- although replays appeared to show otherwise.

The league usually takes officials assigned to the divisional round -- not the wild-card round -- to work the Super Bowl. But officials that earn high grades this weekend could and would be under consideration for the Super Bowl.

One league source did not express surprise at Boger's performance; others around the league have commented on it during various points of the season, and the NFL has received mixed reviews for mixing its officiating crews in postseason games, taking officials from different crews and assigning them to work together.

Boyd's touchdown gave Cincinnati a 20-6 lead with just under two minutes remaining in the first half Saturday. Burrow rolled right to avoid pressure and threw from close to the sideline. Play continued despite an erroneous whistle by an official, who thought Burrow stepped out of bounds. Boyd caught the 10-yard pass in the back of the end zone, and the play counted despite protests from the Raiders, who cited the rule that the ball should be returned to the previous spot.

NFL senior vice president of officiating Walt Anderson said after the game that Boger and his crew "did not feel that the whistle was blown before the receiver caught the ball."

"We confirmed with the referee and the crew that on that play -- they got together and talked -- they determined that they had a whistle, but that the whistle for them on the field was blown after the receiver caught the ball," Anderson said, according to a pool report.

Inadvertent and/or erroneous whistles are not reviewable under the NFL's current instant replay rules.

"In the moment, we didn't know because we heard a whistle," Raiders defensive end Maxx Crosby said. "The ref said he was out, and then they said it was a touchdown -- and then there was no review. So we were just like, 'Alright,' so we just kept going. We had our opportunities. We just didn't capitalize."

Raiders interim coach Rich Bisaccia echoed Crosby's sentiments, saying he had "no problems with the officiating today."

The Bengals held off the Raiders' late rally for a 26-19 victory, their first postseason win in 31 years.

*ESPN's Paul Gutierrez and The Associated Press contributed to this report.

https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id...e-not-expected-work-again-nfl-postseason

If the league doesn’t make an effort to overrule clear and obvious calls from referees that are erroroneous, especially when they materially affect the outcome of a game, then the league has no interest in fair outcomes.

The message will be loud and clear: the league wants the ability to control who wins and who loses regardless of who deserves that outcome.

I wish people would demand this but it seems like a heavy lift.

Big wow if thats true and they can prove it

It's a Real Shame that NFC football teams have to exist.
All 16 NFC football teams are about as useless as -uropean soccer teams. Nobody should be forced to watch that lousy brand that is NFC football it is a waste of space and resources. It has been this way since the merger, which should not have occurred.

The NFC has won 28 Super Bowls and the AFC has won 27. You were saying?

Do not let facts get in the way of rants

someone remind me, why did the Pats let Brady go?

“Basically, it came down to his production and a diminishing of his physical skills,” Belichick said at a news conference.

Oh wait, That was Kosar.

Because there is no such thing as 44 year old QBs.

j/c...

Just had a Dwayne Rudd flashback.

How is Philly in playoffs with a scrub like hurts

Defense most likely

What am I saying? I'm saying
It's a Real Shame that NFC Football teams have to exist.
All 16 NFC football teams are about as useless as european soccer teams. Nobody should be forced to watch their lousy brands the NFC is a waste of space and resources. It has been this way since the merger which should not have occurred.

I didn't mention winning, winning had nothing to do with it, it's that its a boring product. Don't change the subject.
There is a playoff game on between two teams that nobody would want to watch. (And I don't care about the ratings.) Their cities suck, and their teams that play in their cities also suck. It's not a matter of skill, it's a matter of the way they play football lacks style, it is antithetical to what real football played in the AFC resembles, in teams, in presentation, and in broadcasted product.
The Buccaneers and Eages are pretty much lack-se-deisical, lazy having, slow developing football that is about as exciting to watch as grass grow, or Less than.
The NFC is boring as dirt! Except for maybe the Kurt Warner Rams, but even that was pretty useless and many years ago.
The Top 16 teams in the NFL are probably all in the AFC.

I think in the CFL, Canadian football league, they have some really old quarterbacks, one may have won a championship at over 50 or something.

I'm tired of fast little WRs. We need a Mike Evans.

How were the Washington former whatever in the playoffs last year with a scrub like Alex Smith after his injury.

The Eagles only chance would be to score quickly, they should have been throwing deep sideline routes, but they didn't, Now there is no chance they will have enough time. (Garbage time)

Surprised Travis Benjamin is still in the league. It seems like 10-12 years ago he was a Brown.

I thought the same thing. I still remember his catch in the back of the end zone to cap off the huge comeback against Tennessee. I looked it up and he was drafted in 2012 so you were correct.

Pretty good punt and kick returner. We could have used him.

Travis will forever be remembered for this play:

Dallas OL is not good

Tony Romo is annoying.

49ers have won the game … Cowboys have had so many penalties lol

Lmfao

I can’t imagine losing like that in a home playoff game

Wow. Baker has the same number of play off wins as Dak.

What a truly amazing way to lose a game.

Steelers give up a last second of the half td. And dallas gets, well they stunk.

steelers, it couldn't have happened to a better team.

The Steelers, Cowbosy, Raidres and Patriots get eliminated in the opening round. Not a bad week, Not a bad week indeed!

Add on, Baltimore is not in the playoffs!! So it's almost worthy of writing a song about!

So it looks like it’ll be buffalo at KC and cincy at Tennessee

If they had not added an extra team to the playoffs in 2020 then the bottle suckling steelrs would have already had their season ended.

was really hoping Steelers would pull off the upset... oh well... go Buffalo!

Might be the craziest ending to a playoff game I've seen...

It's not like pukes burgh has stopped a screen pass, they didn't even stop screen passes last year by the Browns to Hunt and Chubb.

Schaudenfreude on that touchdown on 2 snaps.

I am truly enjoying this KC/Steelers game.

Steelers being treated like somebody that just backed into the playoffs and had no business being there.

You will begin to see teams that win playoff games, are teams that can move the ball downfield, through the air, very quickly. A quick strike, 2 minute offense. (Pass Rushes only get you so far., i.e. the afc championship game), but Passing is required to get To the Super Bowl.

The Steelers look like a duck in the mouth of an Aligator, and I think it's a beaut: to watch!

Dude. You do realize that this is a Browns forum?

We HATE the stoolers.

Again… I want to see fat burger crying alone on the bench at the end of his career tonight.

I love it when ben motions to the heavens when he scores. He prolly did the same thing the night he got arrested.

Ben looks like hot garbage. So glad he’s gone after this epic beatdown. Hopefully his bloated face doesn’t hit the booth next season and he just fades into oblivion.

can't stand the chiefs... I at least respect the Steelers franchise... plus was hoping Buffalo would have another home game...

he'd be an awful analyst...

Me too. I hate those ba$$tar%$!

Steelers didn't pass 100 of offense until the mid 3rd quarter. Nos they are getting some yards being down 20 some points and the game in the bag for KC. Collinsworth all depressed he can't fawn over his secret love ,big ben. He got his love fest in early in the game, though.

RESPECT FOR THAT FRANCHISE? You probably have a Big Ben poster on your ceiling.

You are on permanent block.

The end is near, the bathrooms' clear, and all the girls can use it plainly,
the curtain draws, he has his flaws, he dropped the snap in 2020
it is the end, we all can grin, we agree he (is) a fatty,
he is no more, we hate him more, than Cincinnati

The time has come big ben is done, and so he'll face the final curtain
He took a dive, that ain't no jive, against the Pack, I'm pretty certain
One more pick 6, would be just the fix, to send him off like bad balonga
He's been a p-h-o-n-y

They are fawning over that Rapist late in the game too!

Going with Titans, Packers, Bucs, and Bills...

I don't agree, but I feel somewhat similar about the Ravens so I can empathize. Those orgs' ability to do so much with flawed rosters.... I'm jealous.

Rams vs Cards tonight … I truly hate the NFC west so I dont have a rooting interest … but at least there is a game

I didn't want to see the Steelers make the playoffs but I now feel it was worth it just to see the beat down they took last night!!!

Especially since it was close until the Chiefs decided to stop sleep-walking. They came out flat and once they woke up the Steelers got absolutely boat-raced.

Exactly. KC could have scored 60 if they wanted.

The crazy thing is KC was stifled for their first 3-4 possessions and still coulda scored 60

That was fun to watch.

feel the same... I am probably going to cheer for the Rams just because I'd like Stafford to get a playoff win... guy's been in the league too long and has played too high a level to not win at least one playoff game

Yeah, i wouldn’t mind seeing Stafford get a win. on the other hand, don’t necessarily want to see OBJ get one haha.

That entire division is just boring to me

A night game in Green Bay in January makes no sense.

Watching the playoffs it becomes clear as teams lose.

There are no moral victories. When you lose you are defeated and disappointed.

Only one team team goes home happy.

Getting to the Super Bowl and not winning it. Is not much different than not getting in the playoffs.

Because starting the next year coming in second does not mean you are going back to get a second chance.

When the Chiefs played the Steelers, the Chiefs defense didn't come up with some of the big game changing plays they often do.
Now,
When the Bills come to KC to play the Chiefs, the Chiefs, would be better off to come up with some of those game changing defensive plays that they often do, or they may end up trailing.

Stafford never has to win a playoff game, even if he is on a team good enough to do it. That is why it is a playoff game, actually that is why it is football, the other team is supposed to stop him. I don't like Stafford very much, I hope he hangs up his cleats, but then again, I could say that for about 90% of all the players in the league.
edit: The Point is, nothing he has done in the past. Nothing any player has done in the past is enough that they "earned" a right to be "given" a game. That's not how it works, they have to win the next one!

Yeah, watching a four team NFL would be great!

Low of 3 degrees on Saturday with chance of snow...

100% agree... don't really want to see OBJ get a win... but I don't really care who wins tonight... just hoping for a good game...

PACKERS
BUCS
TITANS
CHEIFS

j/c...

Rooting against OBJ. Bungles got some help. Think it would have gone that way for our score? Disgusted with the NFL and the way that went down.

OBJ just made a great TD catch. I think he has almost as many TDS with the Rams, like 5? as he did in his entire time with us. Feels like a little of that is on Baker. I mean, diva WRs are a pain, but you have to deal with them. In the end, OBJ (and his dad) definitely went nuclear, but I don’t know why they could never gel on the field.0

Its apparent OBJ is having fun with Stafford and that offense. Stafford actually is targeting
Him on the money downs . Mayfield simply didnt use Beckham to the fullest advantage

That's because mayfield is a dud.

I love how everyone calls OBJ a diva. Dude was anything but here. It’s not his fault he had a trash qb and playcalling. Not his fault he got hurt making a tackle on yet another baker interception. People want to hate on him like he was this problem child yet give baker a pass like he isn’t trash. Getting rid of OBJ sure fixed it all

Pretty amazing what OBJ can do with a Tier 1 QB.

....and a better receiver on the other side getting the double teams.

j/c...

Murray, thus far, looks overwhelmed.

That was an awful decision by Murray. The awards are getting embarrassed.

Totally.

The Rams are dominating them up front … and Murray just pulled a Weeden-esque pass

Grogu’s having a tough go of it.

Kyler Murray could make some side cash for a "wanna get away" commercial. He can't do anything. On his one drive that amounted to anything he thru 2 picks but was lucky to get one back.

j/c...

Kingsbury not wanting any part of getting the ball back deep in their own territory. Conceding halftime and pocketing those TOs.

Murray. Yikes.

Flipperesque

Wow... zona sucks....

j/c...

Arizona's first possession across midfield and halfway through the 3rd quarter?!? This is like the Doug Pederson led Browns in 2000.

I'm holding out hope the over hits (49.5) in some garbage time.

not sure even in garbage time you'll get to the over... zone hasn't been able to do squat.

maybe I'm wrong... 36... only need two more TDs...

Glass half-full. Pick sixes!

j/c...

Oh.

it was a nice pass

10.5 from the over...

Damn how come we can’t have WR like OBJ on this team?

I remember when we used to have fun with those plays.

AJ Green left Cincinnati at the exact wrong time.

j/c...

Brutal game to watch. Make Murray throw from the pocket.

Gross.

The weird part is that he used to be good from the pocket. Something about him is broken. He seems way more skittish.

He was tap dancing like Danny Kaye (movie reference)!

No bueno, Jaybird. No bueno.

And you would still take him over Baker.

I'd take a broken Kyler who can use his legs to help the team over a broken Baker. Yes.

The entire world is stunned.

When Arizona came here a few months ago they looked unstoppable. Since then, they’ve looked largely BAD

They came out this season looking unstoppable. Over the past six weeks of the season they fell apart.

j/c

I'm glad someone has shown how to use OBJ. Thank God his career didn't end in Cleveland like it easily could have. And people wonder why he wanted the hell out of town.

Most likely, OBJ failed here because of the scheme and a QB who couldn't get him the ball because of that scheme. Why is it the Rams have had no trouble incorporating OBJ into their system with very little practice. OBJ is still a good receiver and is proving he is far from finished.

Well to hear it said, he never runs the right routes, is selfish and a diva. It seems obvious that Landry does not share that view. But I mean you know, what would his team mate know? I'm not quite sure how a scheme prevents the QB from finding open WR's.

Lost in all the inane babble is that OBJ went from being the main pass-catcher DC's gameplanned against to being 2nd-3rd option in LA. I think his numbers bear that out, more than anything (much fewer yards and targets, but more big plays/scoring plays).

With the current injuries, some consider him the #2 WR for the Rams. Last night on the broadcast they referred to Kupp as 1A and OBJ as 1B.

I don't think it was that much different here with having OBJ and Landry on the roster as it pertains to pretty much dual roles in which WR was most concerning to opposing defenses.

You don't see the difference in playing with Landry vs Cooper Kupp (especially this year)?

What I see is that the case can be made in both situations that the opposing defenses could have seen Landry as our #1 WR the same way they see Kupp as the #1 WR in L.A. OBJ may not have been the primary focus of opponents defenses which is continually alleged on those board. That would make OBJ #2 on both teams.

Holy cow are you reaching, comparing Kupp to Landry and that the situations were similar when playing with OBJ. It was obvious that the Cards were playing to not let Kupp beat them. We were counting on OBJ to the #1 here. He found a niche in LA that suits him perfectly, a niche that is as opposite to his situation here as night is to day.

DC's stats on another thread show that OBJ's production and targets per game are virtually the same in LA as here. The only difference is the TD's - and those TD's are off short plays generally. There is one 54 yard TD - the rest are under 6 or 7 yards I think.

Here they are. Additional info below is from Memphis.

Targets ................. CLE 5.7 .... LA 5.8
Receptions ............ CLE 2.8 .... LA 3.4
Yards .................... CLE 38.7 .. LA 39.9
Yards per target ..... CLE 6.5 .... LA 6.7
Rushes ................. CLE .3 ...... LA 0
Rushing Yards ........ CLE 2.3 .... LA 0

Here are the plays where Odell caught a TD since being traded to LA:

4 yards
7 yards
7 yards
2 yards
1 yard
54 yards

And a desire to make a team better and not just looking out for himself.

If I'm a DC playing the Browns, I'm not looking at any of our WRs (before or after OBJ) the way you look at a legit #1.. I'm not rolling coverage in any direction on a consistent basis to help with any of our WRs.. I'm using the safeties to crash down and stop the run

You forgot the middle name

My eyes told me OBJ was getting quite a bit of attention from defenses. Maybe not to the level he should've (and we weren't making them pay).

Pit,
I'll say it a little more clearly. Landry and Kupp are on totally different levels, in terms of their impact on their offenses. Maybe if Landry was at his best and healthiest... then maybe. OBJ was the guy drawing the most attention (from the secondary) in our offense, and now he's no better than a distant #2 in LA (that offense still runs through Kupp, and will so long as he's having the type of record-breaking numbers he's been having).


... and for context... while I wish OBJ would've been less of a turd for us (allegedly asking for a trade coming off 11-5 is not a good look), I actually don't harbor a ton of ill will. He's a big name WR, and some offenses just aren't going to work for him. Some guys have earned the right to pick where they play, and he's one of them. The reason I think this is because of the parallels between his situation and Diggs in Minny. OBJ is probably wondering how much longer he has in the league and wants to make the most of it. I can't fault him for that, especially when he was such a willing blocker in the run game, and was reportedly really really good in the locker room. I can fault him for his attitude behind the scenes and his exit strategy, but I think in the grand scheme of things that will turn out to be relatively minor in the whole situation.

TLDR: it is what it is

Did any one see Bens pregame presser? He literally said they are not a good team, should probably not be in the playoffs and probably wont win. Wow
Google ........ Steelers Press Conference (Jan. 12): Ben Roethlisberger | Pittsburgh Steelers
The link wont play here

For the most part the Cards were playing zone defense. Where they play an area and not a WR man on man. Your mistake here is obvious. First, why the Browns brought OBJ here has nothing to do with how opposing defenses saw and or covered the Browns WR's. Most NFL defenses only double cover one WR. There's simply not enough players on defense to double cover two WR's. So whether it was Landry or OBJ that drew that double coverage all depends on who your opponent sees as the biggest threat. All one has to do is look at which of our WR's had by far the most receptions and receiving yards to see that Landry was the biggest WR threat on this team and it's not even close.

So no, I'm not comparing Cooper Kupp to Landry. I'm saying it would be easy, very easy to see why our opponents would consider Landry the biggest WR threat on the Browns and if anyone was being covered and treated as our #1 WR, it would be him. As a matter of fact, if they didn't consider him our #1 WR they would be foolish.

But thanks for playing.

Now if only we could have done that. But we didn't.

What is this "attitude behind the scenes" you speak of?

While the Rams scored a lot more than we did, we actually scored at a higher Red Zone TD rate than they did last year. (62% to 60.91%) https://www.teamrankings.com/nfl/stat/red-zone-scoring-pct I would bet that we ran the ball a whole lot more down close than they did.

It just didn't work with OBJ, for whatever reason. It happens sometimes.

Requesting a trade (read: not wanting to be here) basically since Day 1. Doubling down on not wanting to be here on the heels of 11-5. That's what I meant.

Since day 1? Where did you get that from? Yes, from everything I've seen he did request a trade before 2021 season began. But can you please explain how him purposefully playing poorly would help his career? How that would be advantageous to him?

Let's be honest here. If you were second in the league with the most open WR's on passing downs and the QB consistently couldn't find you, would you want to be here? People seem to fall under some false pretense that these players shouldn't or don't put their career and family first. Well if they don't they're pretty stupid.

There is nothing, and I mean nothing that indicates OBJ didn't want to be here until after seeing he wasn't being used properly and he would do nothing but flounder as long as he was here. That was after the end of last season. There was nothing that indicates he wasn't a willing blocker and team player. There is nothing that indicates he wasn't anything other then a good team mate. NFL players only have so long of a career. No player wants to flounder in obscurity when they can produce much more. They certainly do not want to see their value and income potential nose dive because their QB can't identify when they are open.

So in 2020 OBJ played seven games and was injured the rest of the season. He played six games here in 2021. In those 13 games he had a total of one TD reception. Since that time he has played in 9 games with the Rams and has caught 6 td passes. Now people can carry on about how they were short passes or how the Rams pass more all they want. But are you or anyone else telling me that he doesn't have a much higher market value now than he did while he was not producing TD's here with the Browns? Or are people trying to say he suddenly learned how to get open when he went to the Rams but couldn't get open here? Or that he couldn't run the right routes when he was here but suddenly could as soon as he went to the Rams? Or after watching him with the Rams that we are "better without OBJ"?

The things that have been posted on this board to trash OBJ in order to make excuses for a QB who can't find open WR's has been some of the dumbest things I've seen posted on this board for a long time.

No, you don't have an agenda?

A playoff thread. Not about the Browns. Not about Mayfield.

what do you post?

I thought I read that he had requested a trade after the end of each season (so at the end of his first season, which was the Freddie debacle, and then again at the end of 11-5).

I'm not going to explain it because I didn't say it. All I can tell you is to go back and re-read my previous post (since you're replying to me).


Again, you should re-read my post. I basically said this.


He played a handful of games in 2020, then got injured just before we went on our big run. He played 1 (?) game with a healthy Baker this year. We were forcing the ball to him quite a bit (Stefanski and Co. were saying they try to get him involved in the game early). Now it seems you ignored the overall point of my previous post, so I'll reiterate it. I don't blame him for wanting to leave, but he was also one that wasn't rowing in the same direction. He made his decision based on less than a season with a healthy QB, and none (?) with "Good Baker". So yes, the trashing OBJ stuff is ridiculous, but the other side's picking and choosing of stats and figures isn't much better.

SO CLOSE!!!!

j/c - sort of.

There was a lot of reporting about OBJ wanting out of Cleveland as soon as he arrived.

https://dawgpounddaily.com/2021/11/17/odell-beckham-glazer/

Glazer said on the Pat McAfee Show Wednesday that he remembers talking to OBJ right after he got traded to Cleveland. At that time, Beckham Jr told Glazer that he needed his help to get him get traded to the Rams.

Glazer said on the Pat McAfee Show that he told OBJ “it don’t work like that bro. You can’t do it like twice in four days.”

There were multiple reports about OBJ telling teams to 'come get me' in the Kitchens year - who can blame him?

https://bleacherreport.com/articles...m-jr-said-come-get-me-to-steelers-player

And then it was confirmed he asked for a trade after we went to the playoffs last year and won a playoff game....

It's not accurate to say there wasn't consistent reporting that OBJ wanted out. How accurate any/all of that was? I don't know. I don't know if Glazer is reliable or a douchebag. But the stories have been there all along.

I think both sides are trying to "pick and choose".

He was also here in 2019 when he was targeted mare times than in 2020 and 2021 combined. I never heard a word about him wanting out after the 2019 season. As I said, he played 7 games in 2020 and I'm pretty sure the people who surround him can do the math on how he got more targets in 2019 when he had over 1000 receiving yards than he got in the following two years combined.

Math?
He played 16 games in 2019
He played 13 games in 2020/2021 combined

And he's only started 8 games for the Rams. Starting in 7 of them.

So, I guess the only remaining question is: how many butterflies will fit in a mayonnaise jar?

You seem to be the one claiming that he isn't doing better and that he wasn't getting more yards and production before the 2021 season. So you tell me. I didn't bring up butterflies or mayonnaise jars.

At least now he's reaching the same potential he had all along. Nobody in L.A. is accusing him of running the wrong routes and being spoiled. You know, making things up to point the finger at him for issues elsewhere.

Nobody is saying he doesn't have better stats in LA. What many are saying is that it's not that relevant when comparing his role there to his role here.

It's really annoying to have to repeat an argument because you intentionally misrepresent it to try to make your own argument.

Once again, looking at the relative stats, if you were an opposing team playing Cleveland, when looking at the stats between the two, who would you be concentrating on defending? OBJ or Landry?

I made a claim???

lmao I made no claim. Just trying to follow along, ie... how does "the math" make any sense to your argument.

1 - the math is elementary, he played more games in '19 than 20 and 21 combined.

2 - that still has nothing to do with him "wanting out" (the post you were responding to).

I'll respond to this as well...

I'd concentrate on defending OBJ, and so would (read: did) everyone else. Why? He's the only receiver that can take the top off in Cleveland.

In LA they have the best receiver in the league, a WR putting up otherworldly numbers, a WR that seems un-coverable.

Do you see the difference in possible success rate?

There have been many many articles written during OBJ's time here stating he was drawing coverage away from other receivers... up to and including stating we were using him as a decoy. I'm not going to go back and dig all those up just because you're trying to rewrite reality to defend your losing argument.

Did people forget that both OBJ and Landry put up 1k seasons together in the same season?

Y’all talking about kupp as if Landry wasn’t pulling targets off of OBJ and visa versa.

Y’all talking as if OBJs presence hasn’t pulled off coverage from Kupp, and visa versa.

Doing anything to slam one of the most talented WR we ever here. Bet joe burrow or Big Ben wouldn’t have a problem getting OBJ the ball. But somehow, there’s always an excuse here in cleveland.

6td's in eight games is not rewriting history.

And they'll never stop. OBJ is scoring TD'a at a remarkable rate and all you hear is what a bum he is. What's so funny is they won't even admit that the Cards were playing zone coverage for most of that game.

LOL - OBJ pulling coverage off Kupp. Sure.

OBJ is not a bum, he's a punk. Bum would infer no talent, he has talent. But having your daddy do what his daddy did to get him out? Straight Punk move.

I have NO idea what that Cards game has to do with anything or who "won't even admit that the Cards were playing zone"... I'll admit it, if it makes you feel better, but it has nothing to do with your scoring TDs statement. He scored on a 2 yard TD in man coverage.

He could have done the same in his last two games with Baker here (I don't count the Pitt game, he already quit, I watched it live). Instead he dropped the ball inside the 15, and dropped the ball inside the 5... back to back games... both critical 4th downs... two balls that both you and I would have caught. I guess sometimes you have to make the most of your opportunities.

Well hey, we're better without him, right?

Well yeah, and that's obviously what led to his temper tantrum.

He was two games removed from one of his best games as a pro (Dallas) when he got injured in 2020. He was running the ball, passing the ball, catching TDs.

Rehabbed while he watched the team excel without him.

Decided he didn't want to be here as the narrative continued to build that Baker was better with him on the sidelines.

Made a video of himself looking superhuman running up a treadmill, all the media gushed.

Video was his audition tape as he again demanded a way out.

Delayed his return to the field when he didn't get his way.

Played half@ssed when he did. Dropped balls in critical situations, looked like he would rather be dishing up ice cream at Dairy Queen half the time.

Yep, pretty easy, we're definitely better without him.

Opinion based with no facts, again.


Opinion with no facts, again.


More biased opinion with no facts, again.


All WR's have drops. The rest are just more of your biased opinions based in zero facts. Again.




L.A. is glad you feel that way and once again, no facts back you up. Now you're just making up BS.

Well, not all, but yes -- mostly opinion.

The timeline makes perfect sense to anybody with a shred of common sense.

Here's a fact you can't dispute -- DUDE DIDN'T WANT TO BE HERE.

By the time 2021 came around, no he didn't. But one thing anyone with an ounce of common sense also can't say, undermining his own career and value on the open market makes no sense for OBJ to have done.

Okay, why did he not want to be here? He was doing well in 2020 before his injury? Any guesses?

Second, I have no idea what you mean by "undermining his own career and value on the open market", did I say something that makes that true? Please explain...

One thing I can say is that there are reports he wanted out much earlier than that. I believe it was Glazer that said he wanted out as soon as he got here (I'm not 100% sure about that, but there are other articles stating he requested a trade at the end of each season he was here).

Also, for a receiver of his caliber the drops got pretty egregious towards the end.

It was Glazer. He said OBJ asked him to get him out of Cleveland as soon as the trade was announced or completed ... I don't know how credible Glazer is. I believe it was Glazer and others that reported on OBJ telling teams to come get him during the Freddie year. And something not mentioned in all of this - how often did Baker have to realign OBJ that year? every other play? Every third play? That gets forgotten but to some it may scream that OBJ half assed it here and didn't know the play book.

He's gone. His stats (targets, yards per game, catches etc) in LA are essentially the same there as here with the exception of the TD's. TD's are important so I can see why that would garner some attention . . . . some think having one of the best WR in the NFL opposite OBJ is helping with the TD's others think that OBJ is opening things up for the other WR.... even though someone pointed out LA's passing stats have declined since his arrival. There's lots of viewpoints. None of it really impacts the Browns anymore.

I've seen one second hand report from Glazer. Nothing else. Isn't it amazing how he can suddenly catch the ball? And I have no idea how Stafford can find him since he runs the wrong routes all the time.

His initial comments said as much. The first cringe-worthy comments came hours after the trade...


Superstar wide receiver Odell Beckham Jr. believes the New York Giants traded him to the Cleveland Browns this season in an effort to hurt his career.

"This wasn't no business move," Beckham told Ben Baskin of Sports Illustrated. "This was personal. They thought they'd send me here to die."

Baskin wrote that Beckham "claims to know that the Giants received better offers and still chose to send him to Cleveland, out of spite, hoping to stain his career with the enduring stigma that comes with playing for the Browns."

And of course, he then bashed the Giants, who put up with his antics for years, on the way out...

"He laments, however, that coaches tended to feature him only on third downs, that the offense never schemed for his abilities, that he ran slants so frequently that defenders would call out his routes presnap. The Giants are 'stuck in an older mindset,' Beckham says. Then he clarifies: He's not trying to take 'shots—just speaking facts.'"

https://bleacherreport.com/articles...yd-send-me-here-to-die-with-browns-trade

Here is what you said....


Undermining his own career by playing "half@ssed" would only harm his value.

Stafford finds him right around the same amount as Baker did. Don't you actually pay attention to information posted? The TD's are impressive (for any receiver) but let's not insinuate Stafford is suddenly finding him more often than Baker. Less than 1 target per game difference. Less than 1 reception per game difference. Less than 2 yards receiving per game difference.

So what does that have to do with him not trying to do his best while he was here? If you look at the Browns during that time frame, what would you think the giants were trying to do to you? He did not say he didn't want to be here. He didn't say he wouldn't succeed here. He simply stated he knew the motivation behind the giants sending him here. And if I were him I may have felt the same way. You're trying to make an argument that doesn't exist.

So his scoring production is impressive but it doesn't mean anything. Got it.

Yes that's exactly what I said and why I made my post. I didn't comment that other than the TD's - OBJ is found by Stafford just right about the same as Baker. I wasn't responding to an insinuation that somehow Stafford is suddenly able to find OBJ when Baker couldn't.

Oh boy... I quote OBJs own words and I'm making an argument that doesn't exist.

I'll spell it out for you with some more facts. The Giants sucked, they were a perennial 5-11 team. The Browns were cashing in draft picks, had a rookie QB smashing records and still had more cap space then anyone in the league. Most players would look at that as a great situation, OBJ said it was his former team trying to tarnish his career.

If you dare to read between the lines a bit here's what someone with common sense would surmise... OBJ didn't want to be in NY but also thought he should be able to pick his next team, he was mad that it didn't work out that way and took a stab at the Giants and Cleveland's reputation in his first remarks on the situation.

Sounds more like a petulant child that a HOF receiver. I guess we got what we deserved.

Are you suggesting that when a player says he has been tarnished by a move to a specific team - that somehow that's a knock on the team he is moving to?

Uhhh? Rhetorical question?

"claims to know that the Giants received better offers and still chose to send him to Cleveland, out of spite, hoping to stain his career with the enduring stigma that comes with playing for the Browns."

What's your analysis?

Yours seems to be that he purposefully played like crap because of it.

I think - after looking at his time in CLE and everything before, during and after...

- that he never wanted to be here (yes that was a rhetorical question)
- that he has actively tried to get a move out of CLE
- that at times he played poorly through injury
- that at times he played poorly through a lack of effort (both knowing the playbook and a worrying number of dropped balls).
- that he freelances to get open - and either Baker isn't good enough to use that talent/ability ... or KS didn't use it/scheme for it ... or a bit of both.
- that at the end, he acted like an absolute punk

On topic: I think Cincinnati could go all the way this year.

This 100.

Yet with all these things being glaringly obvious, people think it all goes out with the bathwater because he caught a few TDs in LA... And even worse, if you mention any of it, you're just automatically ignoring the shortcomings of Baker and Stefanski.

Bottom line with why it didn't work out:

- OBJ is not a capable #1 WR.

- He requires waaay to many targets to get the job done.

- He has always had one of the worst catch per target percentages in the league. You can make excuses for that to an extent, but at the end of the day, a lot of that has to fall on the WR when the sample size is an entire career.

- That was never going to work in an offense predicated on running and spreading the ball around. Square peg, round hole.

We have "topics" here? lol

Sorry for my part, we should really consider dredging up an old OBJ thread.

This is hearsay, so take it for what it's worth, but local sports talker, Ken Carman does regular work for the Browns in-house broadcast productions, and he said he knows for a fact that Beckham's attempts to be traded in 2019 were "definitely a thing that happened", according to his source. He was referring specifically to the lovefest with Tom Brady both before and after a Browns game vs the Patriots at Foxboro in October 2019. That was the game when Odell gifted Brady with a pair of gold goat-hair cleats after the Browns got thumped.



https://www.washingtonpost.com/spor...ir-cleats-baker-mayfield-can-only-watch/

It is (sarcasm). Don't tell you've already forgotten all the times Baker drilled him in the numbers before the ball hit the grass.

I think the OBJ problem boils down to us relying on him (because he was far and away our most talented WR) when he didn't want to be here. He was overall good in the LR and a good teammate, but he wasn't rowing in the same direction, and didn't buy in completely (hence the drops and business decisions on some of the tougher catches). I think his leaving made it tougher on our other WRs, but moving on from him will turn out to be the right decision. I think the Rams are a perfect team for him in that the offense was already chugging along without him, and he plays opposite another superstar WR.

Game time temps for Green Bay tomorrow night are forecast to be 5 degrees, wind chill -10 degrees.

Who's the genius who thought this should be the late game?

https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.c...lls-for-49ers-packers-on-saturday-night/

He was here for two off seasons and one and a half seasons under Stefanski. He knew the playbook well. He played with the same QB the entire time. He goes to a team where he's never taken a snap with the QB and has never seen the playbook and is doing better. Only a little better but he never saw the playbook until over half way through this season. And some of you are still too blind to figure out he was not the problem. You all claimed we are better without him. We aren't. Yet you still have learned nothing. You still try to use him as a scapegoat for what the real problem was and still is.

Then Myles must be trying to get traded too. I mean he seems to have a love fest with many opposing players. Now people twist good sportsmanship into something nefarious. A reach of epic proportions.

Only if you ignore Myles never asking to be traded and signing a long term contract here.

I'm glad that's "what you think". You don't find it odd that after two off seasons and a season and a half with Baker as his QB, he goes to LA where he's never taken a snap with the QB or seen the play book he's suddenly a bigger contributor there right out of the gate than he was here?

Nope. That's just you doing the "PitDAWG Shuffle".

No one is saying he's the only problem.

No one is using him as a scapegoat.

Those are just the voices in your head again...


We're just saying he's a bum... or a punk... take your pick.

I'm also saying he is anything but a #1 WR, and most of our fault was trying to make him one.

Try harder.

Myles doesn't have someone that he has to depend on feeding him the ball holding him back.

He's not the only punk around here. That's what you call someone who calls people names behind their backs.

I tried to tell him to his face, he was busy humping the kicker's net.

But he has watched us struggle to put someone on the opposite side from him until this season. It's an easier comparison than you're trying to portray. Not to mention him arriving in the middle of 1-31 and having a front row seat to the Hue/Haley/Freddie dumpster fire.

No, I don't find it odd at all. Baker has his issues (especially this year), and Stafford is an established fQB in a pass-happy O. He's also not the focal point in LA like he was here.

So why doesn't everyone temper tantrum their way out of town? Is that what your point is? I'm not even sure what we're arguing about anymore.

The kicker must have placed it in the back of the end zone and OBJ found it after scoring another TD.

No, silly, this was in Cleveland. The kicker threw it behind the end zone, frustrated after another miss... OBJ met up with it after one of his famous 4th down drops near the end zone.

Can you actually point to one "temper tantrum" OBJ had? I mean something you can really point to? Are you suggesting that wanting to be traded to a team where your skill set can be better used is throwing a tantrum? Are you suggesting that wanting to increase your value as a player to increase your future income is a tantrum? If you see you aren't being used to your potential do you think it's throwing a tantrum wanting to be traded to where your talent can be used?

The only thing I've seen anyone point to is the video his dad posted. The claim is OBJ put him up to it. There's no evidence of that at all. It's just a concocted theory. Once again people claim it's obvious, but it's not. His dad didn't take the video showing Baker missing wide open WR's. He just posted them. If I were OBJ and my QB kept missing me when I was wide open, I would want to e traded too. That's not a tantrum unless someone changed the definition of the word.

It is a sad commentary on society today. Sportsmanship is out the door, while trash talking and wanting to be the center of attraction is the norm. Used to be you never bad mouthed another player, or you were looked at as a dick. Now the sports talk shows have Ex players, routinely bad mouthing player while "analyzing" the game. You have high school kids making a TD and pointing to the name on their jersey. You have kids in peewee football dancing in endzones and trash talking on the field. It has become a league with a majority of players with a "me" attitude instead of a team attitude.

This. 100%.

And add to the mix the many reports that he never wanted to be here in the first place. In the middle place. And then engineered his way out of town to validate (to anyone who wants to pay attention) the reports he never wanted to be here.

Question - If OBJ is being targeted the same, has the same number of receptions per game and the same net yards per game (2 yards difference if we want to be technically correct - lord knows someone might get tetchy otherwise) .... and the only real difference in LA is the TDs .... is that a QB issue? Or is that a offensive scheme issue or is it a coaching/play calling issue? Or an OBJ isn't the #1 in LA thing? Or a bit of all 4?

You forgot that he never took a snap from Stafford or saw their playbook until nine weeks ago and is still doing marginally better there than he did here after two off seasons in Stefanski's scheme with Baker as his QB.

But yeah, keep pretending it's the same thing. You need to change the word "reports" for "rumors". You know, what you call them when they do it to a player you like.

They are reports. Unlike a single MKC hatchet job. I am assuming that's the "reporting" you are referring to because I haven't commented on any other media stories about players. And while i have repeatedly said I don't know how credible Glazer is - I do know factually he has more credibility than MKC. And in his report - he didn't allude to some unnamed 3rd part or "a players camp" - he reported that OBJ said directly to him. There is a entire galaxy of difference.

As to your point above regards OBJ and his time with LA and Stafford - All the points Fate made and the statistical comparison is still valid. Your comments are valid, he's done it in short order and limited exposure to the playbook. The question remains. What is the reason: QB? Coach? Play book? Coper Kupp? - What is the single biggest difference in him scoring TD's for LA and not for the Browns?

Final comment about the playbook, and how hard OBJ was trying here in Cleveland. OBJ had an entire offseason plus the time during the season - and still constantly lined up in the wrong place, game after game, ALL season. How long does it take a WR to learn a playbook if they are committed? Your comment about his limited time in LA and being successful cuts both ways and once again raises the question WTF was he doing here to not know where he needed to be as the #1 WR in our offense?

I'm pretty sure having a QB who can find open WR's has something to do with it also. A factual statiistic you wish to dispute.

And you may wish to recheck. Glazer said that's what someone had told him. Not that OBJ told him.

Pit - you are becoming hard to have a conversation with.

The very first item I questioned regards to why the TD's in LA and not CLE - go check what I wrote - TWICE. I ASKED IF IT WAS THE FREAKING QB.

It's getting to the point I won't ever have another conversation with you. You invent things I never said in order to argue with me. When you agree with me you still try and argue with me like his first two games of this year being 'Good Baker'.

ME: What's the difference in LA? Is it the QB. Is it another factor? Is it a combination?
YOU: BUT YOU WONT TALK ABOUT THE QB.

AS for Glazer ... you are (shocker) flat-dead to rights wrong. And I have already posted this.

https://dawgpounddaily.com/2021/11/17/odell-beckham-glazer/


Glazer said on the Pat McAfee Show Wednesday that he remembers talking to OBJ right after he got traded to Cleveland. At that time, Beckham Jr told Glazer that he needed his help to get him get traded to the Rams.

Glazer said on the Pat McAfee Show that he told OBJ “it don’t work like that bro. You can’t do it like twice in four days.”

Doesn't sound like a second hand story to me.

Dear Lord man. Can you explain any possible way that Jay Glazer could help get OBJ traded? That makes zero sense.

So you didn't mean what you wrote... You meant to call Glazer a liar.

While ignoring the discussion on whether the QB was part of the convo

This is your method of avoiding something you have no answer for. So let's try it again.....

How can some talking head help get OBJ traded and how does that make any sense?

The QB is certainly part of the convo. Stafford can find open WR's and Baker can't.

Pit.

1. You claimed there was no media stories about OBJ wanting to leave as soon as he arrived. Wrong.
2. Claimed he didn't dis Cleveland. Wrong.
3. Claimed Glazer's story about OBJ getting him out was based on rumor not what was said directly to him. Wrong.
4. Claimed I didn't want to talk about the QB being the difference between LA and CLE. Wrong.

And you have the audacity to NOW try to switch the conversation to whether or not Glazer can help him find a new team? And you claim it's MY method for not talking about something. GTFOOH.

Like I said - harder and harder to have a conversation with you.

And to give you the curtsey that you don't extend me - and talk about your comment ... I don't know how a talking head can help get him out of CLE. I didn't say it made sense. I even said I didn't know how credible it was .... what I did say is that the report/claim was made. It was made by Glazer who was reporting on something he said actually happened. Whether or not it makes sense was never part of the discussion until it was proven to you that the reports were made, that the conversation was right after he was traded to the Browns and that it wasn't a 3rd hand story.

You are correct. Period.

I don't know what that is for but that flopping goal post is funny, that made me laugh.
Now.

If the subject is, "point to one time where OBJ had a tantrum in Cleveland" then I can remember one thing.

There was the game where OBJ stood on the sidelines during the game but wouldn't put his shoes on, it was like he was too "done with" the team to put the full uniform on, and I considered that a tantrum along the lines of what eventually would happen when Antonio Brown, (also a guy with a head hurt past) would leave the field throwing his jersey into the stands a few weeks ago, or some similar stuff.
So...
I think, that comment Pit made about the FG kickers net being in the end zone, was clever, (is he going to be here all week)
Because the Browns? They didn't get the ball to OJ.
But the Rams? They play in Los Angelas, it's like snoop dog and johnny carson, .. the NFL is NOT a righteous undertaking.

HUH ??

All the way to the TOILET where they will dysentery at the thought of their matchup against Cleveland next year.

You realize they won and are playing for the AFC Championship next weekend, right? One of us looks like they know what they were talking about. One of us doesn't. You figure out which is which.

That Josh Allen guy is pretty good. Too bad we didn't we didn't have the opportunity to draft.....oh wait.

Mayfield couldnt tie Allens shoelaces

Yea, he's good

What a game! 4 quarters just wasn't enough.

Stop talking to yourself DaveyD.

You're asking if OBJ could cause enough smoke (enlisting outside help) to help him in getting traded? Do we not already know the answer to this question?

Four days after he got here? No. If anything the comment was made in jest and Glazer just made a story out of it by reporting it out of context. These players, especially the high dollar players, not only have an agent, but lawyers. That's who they would seriously be talking to. And there's no way OBJ believed he could be traded that soon after he got here. It makes no sense.

Here's the thing. There's no doubt that OBJ didn't want to be traded here. Would you if you were in his position? But to believe he purposefully didn't apply himself or play hard goes against everything his team mates reported. It would mean that he purposefully undermined his own value and career making him worth much less on the open market and less likely to be signed by teams he would want to go to. That doesn't make any sense either.

We heard so much BS on this board about how "We are better without him". Just look at the least half of the season and tell me how much better we were without him. We heard, "He's no better with the Rams than he was here". Yet as we saw yesterday, the more familiar Stafford is becoming with OBJ the more he is starting to rely on him. They say his five TD's really don't mean anything because they are short passes. What they don't tell you is that the Browns TD leading WR in 2021 was DPJ with three. Yeah, that sounds like the place a talented WR would want to play.

And Lord knows the announcers in yesterdays game must have sucked because they kept saying how much he has added to the Rams offense. How much he is contributing and how good his hands are. They quoted his team mates who said how hard he worked and what a positive attitude he had. You must remember, the exact same thing his Browns team mates said about him that people wish to dismiss and ignore.

Of course the way it works around here is that we should listen to announcers who say what you want to hear and ignore the ones who don't. It's the Dawgtalker way.

The picture that gets painted to you is only according to what the artist decides to put on the canvass.

Put it on another canvas this is the playoff canvas!

If I have to choose between what you think Jay Glazer said and what Jay Glazer thinks Jay Glazer said, I'm going to go with the latter.

https://www.wkyc.com/article/sports/nfl/browns/odell-beckham-jr-wanted-rams-trade/95-7a898ee3-7be9-4ab7-bc3e-1607d8d78b8f#:~:text=In%20doing%20so%2C%20Glazer%20revealed,got%20there%2C%22%20Glazer%20said.

I'll just say it one more time because I'm running out of different ways to explain it to you, and your "invent a ridiculous argument and act like I said that" shtick is already really old.

OBJ was the most talented WR on this team and his departure left a hole that couldn't be filled (commanding double-teams and opening things up for others). That said, he did not want to be here, and by that alone made it impossible for him to stay. The FO's actions seem to back this up (not acquiescing to his trade requests until the situation became untenable). Because he didn't want to be here, I do believe that we are better off without him. He was reportedly good to the guys in the locker room and was a willing blocker most of the time, but he wanted out of Cleveland. He WAS able to pick up the playbook quickly in LA... so why didn't he do that when he was here and Baker had to line him up all the time? He has great hands, so why were so many easy passes bouncing off his chest?

I'm not exactly rooting for him to get a 'chip, but I really don't harbor him much ill-will. I get why he wanted out, but he was a punk in the way he did it.

Yes, Jay Glazer couldn't possibly be accentuating a story for ratings. The same thing so many accuse other such people for doing.

You say he wanted out then say you understand why he wanted out. That's the exaxt same thing I said in the very post you quoted.....


And it appears you didn't watch the second half of the season. We were not better without him.

"Never wrestle with a pig. You just get dirty and the pig enjoys it."

--George Bernard Shaw

Then I'll speak to you in a language you can understand. Oink.