Quote:
A Football Life: Cleveland '95
Wednesday, October 3rd, NFL Network, 8 PM
The untold story of Bill Belichick's Cleveland Browns, and a talented staff who rose from the ashes of the 1995 season.
Quote:
Quote:
A Football Life: Cleveland '95
Wednesday, October 3rd, NFL Network, 8 PM
The untold story of Bill Belichick's Cleveland Browns, and a talented staff who rose from the ashes of the 1995 season.
Actually, that was an incredibly talented staff.
We had Kirk Ferentz, Eric Mangini, Jim Schwartz, Rick Venturi, Jim Bates, Chuck Bresnahan, and Scott O'Brien all on staff. That was a really outstanding staff. If we could have kept that team, and that staff together with a new owner in Cleveland, we would have been celebrating Super Bowls. (multiple) 
were they just waiting for Modell to die to air this?
Wonder how many times the promo for this gets played during today's game... and if it has anything to do with this game being selected as a TNF game this year.
Also, some guy named Nick Saban.
Quote:
Also, some guy named Nick Saban.
naw, he's too controlling. and surley. he could never amount to anything.
and I can tell that Savage character should just switch to media relations now. no way he could swindle someone into thinking he could run a front office and get himself a nice little payday before he goes to his dream job of announce Tide games.
Quote:
Also, some guy named Nick Saban.
I knew I forgot someone.
I already set the DVR to tape it next Wed. night
Set mine too. Listening to the radio and those who have pre-screened it said it is very good and that Shurmer should take an hour of team time and show it to the players to help connect with the fans and the history of their franchise. Reporters asked Shurmer if he was going to watch it and he said he would have time for movies and books when the season ends. 1 hour? Amazing.
This sounds like it will be painful to watch. Do we really need more of this??
Really, who wants to relive the misery again. That being said, I do want my some to watch it to learn why this team started bad at the rebirth and continued to struggle.
Modell was good for the league, but he was not for the Cleveland fans.
Quote:
Really, who wants to relive the misery again.
Misery is a big part of our tradition. 
and must be kept alive.
Quote:
Quote:
Really, who wants to relive the misery again.
Misery is a big part of our tradition. and must be kept alive.
also, from the trailer during TNF, it seems to focus a bunch on how the circumstances helped mold Belichick, Saban, Pat Hill, etc. into the coaches that they became afterwards.
Quote:
Quote:
Really, who wants to relive the misery again.
Misery is a big part of our tradition. and must be kept alive.
It's another great change to relive what might have been, which is akin to wait till next year with a better outcome.
War room footage of Ozzie drafting Jonathan Ogden and Ray Lewis is gut wrenching. Two guys who should've been going into Canton in brown and orange.
Wow, I enjoyed the documentary. As a fan that didn't get the chance to really follow Browns football until 2006, it sucks to see what could have been.
J/C...
Dane Cook had a bit a few years ago about "the sound that makes you want to punch a baby"... that show was "the show that makes me want to punch a baby".
Though I did come away from it feeling better about Belichick, which was a surprise... and hating Modell more, which wasn't a surprise.
I will never forget standing about 10 rows up in the opposite end of the Pound as the clock struck zero - tears running down my face and my dad giving me a half hug.
Quote:
Really, who wants to relive the misery again. That being said, I do want my some to watch it to learn why this team started bad at the rebirth and continued to struggle.
Modell was good for the league, but he was not for the Cleveland fans.
Agreed, it was a sad time for us all.
I don't understand wanting to relive being kicked in the balls over again.
Maybe this should be titled NFL Network hates Browns fans.
I was 11 when it happened so didn't quite feel the impact of it then. Plus indians fever helped push it to the back of the mind at the time. Very well presented I'll say that. had no idea the team had so much talent in high positions in the league today
I thought it was a very good peice. It really focused on on Belichek and his staff at the time, and was interesting to see/hear the building he was doing.
I moved to Florida in '90 and there was no internet then, so news of the team was hard to come by other than the occasional blurb in the local sports section.
I didn't remember the news of the move coming out that early in the season, but that could be part of the distance issue, and lack of news. Also didn't remember the bit that the team was expected to be a Superbowl contender going into that season.
All in all I think they did a great job on it, and it was sad to think what should have been. Even Ozzie gave Bill credit for his superbowl victory, then for Bill to go on and win several himself right after.
Quote:
Modell was good for the league,
I get why you say this, but I can't say that a man who was responsible for ripping 50 years of proffessional football from a city that supported that team through thick and thin was good for the league. In my opinion, what he did was just as bad for the league as it was for Browns fans.
I was a little underwhelmed. I admit, I got a bit misty-eyed when they were playing the field footage after the last game, but really they didn't talk about why the team moved or anything like that... one blurb from the local news where Casey Coleman said "a new stadium can't keep Art Modell and his debts in Cleveland."
Steve Everitt is definitely "The Dude." He may be on my Browns Mount Rushmore:
Jim Brown, Otto Graham, Steve Everett, and Bernie Kosar.
Josh Cribbs, Clay Matthews, and Eric Turner are close behind, but those are probably my four. The move was too important to Browns history to not acknowledge it, and to me he represented the fans more than any other player through that.
Phil Taylor on Twitter last night during the part where they are showing the city reacting to the move and the final game "This is crazy"
Weeden had a comment about how it puts things in perspective and a bunch of the other guys like Roberson and Fort said it made them want to fight harder.
It was difficult to watch. I was 14 when it happened and I knew what was going in but didn't fully get it.
I still don't understand Ozzie saying Art told him he was moving to Baltimore for the sole purpose of winning a Super Bowl.
Tough to accept but a dynasty was being built and it was sabotaged by that scumbag.
Damn I missed it, does anyone know if they'll replay it?
Today @ 3pm
Saturday @ 10pm
Sunday @ 1am
Quote:
really they didn't talk about why the team moved or anything like that...
The show wasn't about the team or the move. It was about the coaching staff that Belichick assembled and the various capacities of success that they've gone on to experience since being disbanded after Belichick was fired. The only way it really related to the on-field product was the sort of inherent question of "what if" when touching on the Super Bowl success that Bill and Ozzie had post-Cleveland..."imagine what could've happened if all these great football minds were able to stay in place in Clevaland."
I have it set to DVR at 3 today.. May not get to watch it until this evening..
It's definitely worth a watch, though much of it is stuff we already knew.
I do not have a DVR, so if someone could seed a torrent, that'd be awesome
yeah, it's more like it was mis-titled IMO. they had to make it catchy, though, and "Cleveland Browns' Coaching Staff '95" doesn't have the same ring to it.
Can't grab it off my DVR or I'd find a way to send it to you... I just checked the newsgroup search sites and don't see it yet...
I believe you can stream it on NFL.com.
Quote:
I have it set to DVR at 3 today.. May not get to watch it until this evening..
You actually felt a need to post that?
Quote:
yeah, it's more like it was mis-titled IMO. they had to make it catchy, though, and "Cleveland Browns' Coaching Staff '95" doesn't have the same ring to it.
To me the bigger "what if" would be is what if Belichick never got his shot in Cleveland. What would the NFL and College look like now? That staff impacted the two leagues so much over the years and if they never came together here.............
Allways had a hard time with Belichek releasing Kosar, never really forgave him for that ,never liked Vinny T. for it either, especially since they never brought it a Quarterback that played any better.
Quote:
Quote:
I have it set to DVR at 3 today.. May not get to watch it until this evening..
You actually felt a need to post that?
And you felt the need to post that reply to his post? 
Quote:
It's definitworth a watch, though much of it is stuff we already knew.
Yeah, we pretty much knew it all,, But I couldn't take my eyes off of it. Brought back a flood of emotions
two things stood out to me, Belichick really was doing a good job and I know I haven't forgiven modell.
that was one helluva staff.
If only the league forced modell to sell then, instead of after they moved...
Very painful to watch.
In light of all that has gone down since it just leaves a horrible taste.
All the "should have been's", "could of have been's."
Clearly the talent in coaching and management was unreal. Obviously the driver who knew what it takes is Belichick.
Salt in the wounds to see the success somewhere else.
Before the Holmgren hire I really wanted Lerner to approach Ozzie and offer part ownership to come on as President and overall operations head.
Ogden, Lewis, Ngata, Reed, Flacco all the great players that could have been Browns. Let alone what Belichick has accomplished.
A dark time to remember. Painful to see Byner, Ozzie, and Everitt and their passion for the team and the fans to unrewarded.
I would love to see someone do an in-depth report on what could have been had they stayed...
You have to wipe out history, obviously the Pats and Ravens.
Does Bill still draft Brady and if no does he still become a great qb? That's fascinating conversation...
It's amazing the butterfly effect that would take place not only in the landscape of the nfl, but college football too. Amazing.
Realistically, at the very least, 6 Super Bowls and 3 national championships would be changed.
That was a great show to watch with my 15yo son. It filled in a lot of the gaps in the stories I've told him. He was definitely touched. I loved the genuine passion that Mary Kay showed, and I thought Antonio Langham presented the players view well. I got choked up when Byner cried telling the story. I also don't harbor any bad feelings toward Ozzie in all of this. I thought it was a well produced show that accurately portrayed the events.
Quote:
I was a little underwhelmed. I admit, I got a bit misty-eyed when they were playing the field footage after the last game, but really they didn't talk about why the team moved or anything like that... one blurb from the local news where Casey Coleman said "a new stadium can't keep Art Modell and his debts in Cleveland."
Steve Everitt is definitely "The Dude." He may be on my Browns Mount Rushmore:
Jim Brown, Otto Graham, Steve Everett, and Bernie Kosar.
Josh Cribbs, Clay Matthews, and Eric Turner are close behind, but those are probably my four. The move was too important to Browns history to not acknowledge it, and to me he represented the fans more than any other player through that.
You captured many of my own thoughts here.
The thing I'm surprised no one has mentioned yet is Ozzie telling the story that Modell told him there was one reason he was moving the team ... "to win a championship".
I guess he must have meant to win a championship for himself. Because he was poised to do it in Cleveland as the documentary lays out very well.
What a lying, deceitful crook.
j/c
someone needs to do this documentary from the fan's view. hit all the main points that we lived through. the politician angle, the modell debt angle, show how much we truly loved the team, how sponsors tore out their ads from the stadium/berea, etc.
i get that NFLN is going through a bunch of key figures and this one was dedicated to the "Belichick Tree Origins" but someone ought to do this story justice.
Quote:
The thing I'm surprised no one has mentioned yet is Ozzie telling the story that Modell told him there was one reason he was moving the team ... "to win a championship".
I guess he must have meant to win a championship for himself. Because he was poised to do it in Cleveland as the documentary lays out very well.
What a lying, deceitful crook.
If you look at my first post in this topic, I questioned it. I don't get it. What, because he couldn't spend money because of his horrible financial mistakes?
Bill did it in New England with solid draft picks and low key FA moves. They didn't start going after bigger names until they won that third ring.
I actually can't believe the NFL allowed them to paint Modell the way they did. He comes off HORRIBLE by the end of this.
I mean really, put us aside, because that's one thing, but he completely sabotaged all the work that Belichick and his staff did, and the players? They were completely ruined because of this.
There's a reason he was the only guy dumb enough to move a team in the middle of their season. What is this, the freaking Charlestown Chiefs?
Quote:
If you look at my first post in this topic, I questioned it. I don't get it. What, because he couldn't spend money because of his horrible financial mistakes?
Doh! Sorry man, I didn't see it.
But I'm glad someone else pointed it out.
Quote:
I do not have a DVR, so if someone could seed a torrent, that'd be awesome
NO DVR 
What are you un american? I have two DVR's
I got through the first few minutes, and just couldn't get myself to watch any further. If the documentary was about any other team, I'd be all for it ... but I just couldn't do it.
Quote:
Quote:
I do not have a DVR, so if someone could seed a torrent, that'd be awesome
NO DVR What are you un american? I have two DVR's
What is this DVR thing you speak of? 
Good program, but tough to watch. The "what ifs" can drive you crazy. I was so happy when they hired Bellichik, and knew in my heart we we're on the right track. What an incredible team he had assembled. The entire season after the announcement was like a slow death. I remember feeling so empty and so betrayed. I didn't watch football for the next five years, not even the Superbowls.
I was at that last San Diego game, I sat on the 50 right behind the Browns bench. Sad day and a poor performance. I snuck into the bus area and got a bunch of signatures on a regulation football. Vinnie wouldn't come off the bus, just sat there and sulked, most of the other players were great, would chat a little, talk about how sad the situation was.
One thing lost in all this is that Lerner, Modell's "friend", helped facilitate the move, then came in the back door and bought the new team, positioning himself as the savior of the franchise. If he was a true friend, wanted to help Modell financially, and wanted to save the franchise, all he had to do was buy the team from Modell, or at least a controlling interest. The team did not have to move and whole thing stinks to high heaven. To this day. Like I said, the "what ifs" can drive you crazy.
8 years for me. I watched the Super Bowls but little else.
I don't think Modell would have ever sold to Lerner. Modell wanted to be recognized as the reason his team won a championship.
I hope when it happened that deep down it was pretty hollow.
He should've sold the team. Instead he got to have his cake and eat it too.
His mistakes were mostly self-inflicted. I don't buy the "we didn't give him a stadium" crap because we got a shiny new stadium when the team was brought back.
The whole thing is shady. I'm not sure about the way Al Lerner went about it too. I wish there was more light shed on the story. Either way I am glad that Jimmy Haslam has bought this team, because that guy seems committed and hungry. He still has to prove a lot to us, but I think it's safe to say this guy is a great fit.
Quote:
8 years for me. I watched the Super Bowls but little else.
I didn't watch a lick of the NFL when we were gone, even when we came back I wasn't that into it.
I was very opposed to the sale early on.
I've done a 180 after listening to Haslam.
I think he's going to do good things.
I'm excited about the era he will be ushering in.
Quote:
I don't buy the "we didn't give him a stadium" crap because we got a shiny new stadium when the team was brought back.
The whole thing is shady. I'm not sure about the way Al Lerner went about it too. I wish there was more light shed on the story.
I'm convinced that the Browns was the NFL's sacrificial lamb: "If *they* can pick up and move because they can't get a stadium deal, then ANY team can do it."
Look at how many new stadiums were built in the few years immediately following it, and in total since then. I really don't see it as coincidence at all.
It'd take an awful lot to convince me that the whole thing wasn't completely premeditated and orchestrated, including Lerner being "awarded" the new franchise. Of course he got it... it was his reward for helping the move happen in the first place.
Quote:
If only the league forced modell to sell then, instead of after they moved...
I don't understand why they didn't? I mean, if you can fill a stadium every game and put a mid range product on the field and still can't make it, then something is wrong with your business management skills.
Moving to Baltimore didn't help that because within 6 or 7 years, he was in financial trouble again.
He should have been forced to sell in 95
Quote:
Quote:
I don't buy the "we didn't give him a stadium" crap because we got a shiny new stadium when the team was brought back.
The whole thing is shady. I'm not sure about the way Al Lerner went about it too. I wish there was more light shed on the story.
I'm convinced that the Browns was the NFL's sacrificial lamb: "If *they* can pick up and move because they can't get a stadium deal, then ANY team can do it."
Look at how many new stadiums were built in the few years immediately following it, and in total since then. I really don't see it as coincidence at all.
It'd take an awful lot to convince me that the whole thing wasn't completely premeditated and orchestrated, including Lerner being "awarded" the new franchise. Of course he got it... it was his reward for helping the move happen in the first place.
I've heard that angle before, and it's interesting. 100% spot on with the spurt in new stadiums across the league.
We were made an example of.
Quote:
Quote:
If only the league forced modell to sell then, instead of after they moved...
I don't understand why they didn't? I mean, if you can fill a stadium every game and put a mid range product on the field and still can't make it, then something is wrong with your business management skills.
Moving to Baltimore didn't help that because within 6 or 7 years, he was in financial trouble again.
He should have been forced to sell in 95
That fact is lost on a lot of people (non-Clevelanders anyway). He essentially bankrupted the team TWICE.
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
I do not have a DVR, so if someone could seed a torrent, that'd be awesome
NO DVR What are you un american? I have two DVR's
What is this DVR thing you speak of?
It's my lifeline to 95 percent of the things I watch on TV
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
I don't buy the "we didn't give him a stadium" crap because we got a shiny new stadium when the team was brought back.
The whole thing is shady. I'm not sure about the way Al Lerner went about it too. I wish there was more light shed on the story.
I'm convinced that the Browns was the NFL's sacrificial lamb: "If *they* can pick up and move because they can't get a stadium deal, then ANY team can do it."
Look at how many new stadiums were built in the few years immediately following it, and in total since then. I really don't see it as coincidence at all.
It'd take an awful lot to convince me that the whole thing wasn't completely premeditated and orchestrated, including Lerner being "awarded" the new franchise. Of course he got it... it was his reward for helping the move happen in the first place.
I've heard that angle before, and it's interesting. 100% spot on with the spurt in new stadiums across the league.
We were made an example of.
The first year of the NFL Salary Cap was 1994.... and here was an owner operating in a model that all but guarantees that they cannot lose money, going bankrupt.
How does the league spin that? I'd bet that Modell was told he'd be allowed to keep the team, but he's gotta do this one thing - move the Browns. Hell, they may have still forced his sale to Bisciotti, or Modell did it just because he was THAT bad with money. In any case, I firmly believe that it's a case where the NFL was not going to waste a perfectly good crisis.
Your thoughts on the matter of the NFL making a example of Cleveland remind me of Ditka during the final broadcast with Costas. Ditka said something to that affect of, "If this can happen in Cleveland, it can happen anywhere."
Like you say, new stadiums popped up everywhere, with the the threat of a move otherwise, after the Cleveland incident.
Belichick took a 3-13 team and made it good. I liked the part about the 70-page binder--he sold Art on how he was going to improve the team.
Remember, BB had some things going against him.
1) No FA until '93. That is why the '94 team did remarkably well--they had taken a decent team and made it elite w/infusion of FA.
2) The only option was Plan B (player swap), and BB tried to make use of it as he could, esp. by stealing div. rivals (James Brooks, Lorenzo White) from Cin. and Hou.
3) the NFC was so powerful, that BB wanted to beat the best. Problem was, he had to get by the AFC and struggled with Hou. and Pitt. He'd beat the elite (SF, Dal, GB, Philly) but struggle with so-so AFC teams like Seattle (average) and Cinci (below-average, but always played us hard) and SD.
Even with all that badness, he still got the team to about a .500 record, or slightly below. The 1990 team he took over still has the team record for points allowed (Season from Hell). 462 points or 28.9 ppg allowed--not even '99, '00 or '12 was that bad defensively.
I didn't appreciate BB as much as I should have growing up. He had the Browns on the rise in an era where teams could NOT turn around quickly.