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Legend
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Legend
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I would love to see someone do an in-depth report on what could have been had they stayed...
You have to wipe out history, obviously the Pats and Ravens.
Does Bill still draft Brady and if no does he still become a great qb? That's fascinating conversation...
It's amazing the butterfly effect that would take place not only in the landscape of the nfl, but college football too. Amazing.
Realistically, at the very least, 6 Super Bowls and 3 national championships would be changed.
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Legend
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Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 18,846 Likes: 950 |
That was a great show to watch with my 15yo son. It filled in a lot of the gaps in the stories I've told him. He was definitely touched. I loved the genuine passion that Mary Kay showed, and I thought Antonio Langham presented the players view well. I got choked up when Byner cried telling the story. I also don't harbor any bad feelings toward Ozzie in all of this. I thought it was a well produced show that accurately portrayed the events.
And into the forest I go, to lose my mind and find my soul.
- John Muir
#GMSTRONG
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Legend
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Legend
Joined: Oct 2006
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Quote:
I was a little underwhelmed. I admit, I got a bit misty-eyed when they were playing the field footage after the last game, but really they didn't talk about why the team moved or anything like that... one blurb from the local news where Casey Coleman said "a new stadium can't keep Art Modell and his debts in Cleveland."
Steve Everitt is definitely "The Dude." He may be on my Browns Mount Rushmore:
Jim Brown, Otto Graham, Steve Everett, and Bernie Kosar.
Josh Cribbs, Clay Matthews, and Eric Turner are close behind, but those are probably my four. The move was too important to Browns history to not acknowledge it, and to me he represented the fans more than any other player through that.
You captured many of my own thoughts here.
The thing I'm surprised no one has mentioned yet is Ozzie telling the story that Modell told him there was one reason he was moving the team ... "to win a championship".
I guess he must have meant to win a championship for himself. Because he was poised to do it in Cleveland as the documentary lays out very well.
What a lying, deceitful crook.
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Legend
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Legend
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j/c
someone needs to do this documentary from the fan's view. hit all the main points that we lived through. the politician angle, the modell debt angle, show how much we truly loved the team, how sponsors tore out their ads from the stadium/berea, etc.
i get that NFLN is going through a bunch of key figures and this one was dedicated to the "Belichick Tree Origins" but someone ought to do this story justice.
#gmstrong
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Joined: Sep 2006
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Legend
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Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
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Quote:
The thing I'm surprised no one has mentioned yet is Ozzie telling the story that Modell told him there was one reason he was moving the team ... "to win a championship".
I guess he must have meant to win a championship for himself. Because he was poised to do it in Cleveland as the documentary lays out very well.
What a lying, deceitful crook.
If you look at my first post in this topic, I questioned it. I don't get it. What, because he couldn't spend money because of his horrible financial mistakes?
Bill did it in New England with solid draft picks and low key FA moves. They didn't start going after bigger names until they won that third ring.
I actually can't believe the NFL allowed them to paint Modell the way they did. He comes off HORRIBLE by the end of this.
I mean really, put us aside, because that's one thing, but he completely sabotaged all the work that Belichick and his staff did, and the players? They were completely ruined because of this.
There's a reason he was the only guy dumb enough to move a team in the middle of their season. What is this, the freaking Charlestown Chiefs?
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Legend
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Legend
Joined: Oct 2006
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Quote:
If you look at my first post in this topic, I questioned it. I don't get it. What, because he couldn't spend money because of his horrible financial mistakes?
Doh! Sorry man, I didn't see it.
But I'm glad someone else pointed it out.
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Legend
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Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
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Quote:
I do not have a DVR, so if someone could seed a torrent, that'd be awesome 
NO DVR  What are you un american? I have two DVR's 
I AM ALWAYS RIGHT... except when I am wrong.
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Legend
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Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 70,640 Likes: 510 |
I got through the first few minutes, and just couldn't get myself to watch any further. If the documentary was about any other team, I'd be all for it ... but I just couldn't do it.
"First down inside the 10. A score here will put us in the Super Bowl. Cooper is far to the left as Njoku settles into the slot. Moore is flanked out wide to the right. Chubb and Ford are split in the backfield as Watson takes the snap ... Here we go."
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Hall of Famer
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Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
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Quote:
Quote:
I do not have a DVR, so if someone could seed a torrent, that'd be awesome
NO DVR What are you un american? I have two DVR's
What is this DVR thing you speak of? 
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Posts: 9,693
Hall of Famer
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Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 9,693 |
Good program, but tough to watch. The "what ifs" can drive you crazy. I was so happy when they hired Bellichik, and knew in my heart we we're on the right track. What an incredible team he had assembled. The entire season after the announcement was like a slow death. I remember feeling so empty and so betrayed. I didn't watch football for the next five years, not even the Superbowls. I was at that last San Diego game, I sat on the 50 right behind the Browns bench. Sad day and a poor performance. I snuck into the bus area and got a bunch of signatures on a regulation football. Vinnie wouldn't come off the bus, just sat there and sulked, most of the other players were great, would chat a little, talk about how sad the situation was. One thing lost in all this is that Lerner, Modell's "friend", helped facilitate the move, then came in the back door and bought the new team, positioning himself as the savior of the franchise. If he was a true friend, wanted to help Modell financially, and wanted to save the franchise, all he had to do was buy the team from Modell, or at least a controlling interest. The team did not have to move and whole thing stinks to high heaven. To this day. Like I said, the "what ifs" can drive you crazy. 
![[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]](https://i.imgur.com/hfMNC7T.jpg) "I am undeterred and I am undaunted." --Kevin Stefanski "Big hairy American winning machines." --Baker Mayfield #gmstrong
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Legend
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Legend
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8 years for me. I watched the Super Bowls but little else.
I don't think Modell would have ever sold to Lerner. Modell wanted to be recognized as the reason his team won a championship.
I hope when it happened that deep down it was pretty hollow.
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Legend
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Legend
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He should've sold the team. Instead he got to have his cake and eat it too.
His mistakes were mostly self-inflicted. I don't buy the "we didn't give him a stadium" crap because we got a shiny new stadium when the team was brought back.
The whole thing is shady. I'm not sure about the way Al Lerner went about it too. I wish there was more light shed on the story. Either way I am glad that Jimmy Haslam has bought this team, because that guy seems committed and hungry. He still has to prove a lot to us, but I think it's safe to say this guy is a great fit.
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Legend
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Legend
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Quote:
8 years for me. I watched the Super Bowls but little else.
I didn't watch a lick of the NFL when we were gone, even when we came back I wasn't that into it.
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Legend
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Legend
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I was very opposed to the sale early on.
I've done a 180 after listening to Haslam.
I think he's going to do good things.
I'm excited about the era he will be ushering in.
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Legend
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Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
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Quote:
I don't buy the "we didn't give him a stadium" crap because we got a shiny new stadium when the team was brought back.
The whole thing is shady. I'm not sure about the way Al Lerner went about it too. I wish there was more light shed on the story.
I'm convinced that the Browns was the NFL's sacrificial lamb: "If *they* can pick up and move because they can't get a stadium deal, then ANY team can do it."
Look at how many new stadiums were built in the few years immediately following it, and in total since then. I really don't see it as coincidence at all.
It'd take an awful lot to convince me that the whole thing wasn't completely premeditated and orchestrated, including Lerner being "awarded" the new franchise. Of course he got it... it was his reward for helping the move happen in the first place.
Browns is the Browns
... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.
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Legend
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Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
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If only the league forced modell to sell then, instead of after they moved...
I don't understand why they didn't? I mean, if you can fill a stadium every game and put a mid range product on the field and still can't make it, then something is wrong with your business management skills.
Moving to Baltimore didn't help that because within 6 or 7 years, he was in financial trouble again.
He should have been forced to sell in 95
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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Legend
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Legend
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Quote:
Quote:
I don't buy the "we didn't give him a stadium" crap because we got a shiny new stadium when the team was brought back.
The whole thing is shady. I'm not sure about the way Al Lerner went about it too. I wish there was more light shed on the story.
I'm convinced that the Browns was the NFL's sacrificial lamb: "If *they* can pick up and move because they can't get a stadium deal, then ANY team can do it."
Look at how many new stadiums were built in the few years immediately following it, and in total since then. I really don't see it as coincidence at all.
It'd take an awful lot to convince me that the whole thing wasn't completely premeditated and orchestrated, including Lerner being "awarded" the new franchise. Of course he got it... it was his reward for helping the move happen in the first place.
I've heard that angle before, and it's interesting. 100% spot on with the spurt in new stadiums across the league.
We were made an example of.
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Dawg Talker
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Dawg Talker
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Quote:
Quote:
If only the league forced modell to sell then, instead of after they moved...
I don't understand why they didn't? I mean, if you can fill a stadium every game and put a mid range product on the field and still can't make it, then something is wrong with your business management skills.
Moving to Baltimore didn't help that because within 6 or 7 years, he was in financial trouble again.
He should have been forced to sell in 95
That fact is lost on a lot of people (non-Clevelanders anyway). He essentially bankrupted the team TWICE.
#gmstrong
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Legend
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Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
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Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
I do not have a DVR, so if someone could seed a torrent, that'd be awesome
NO DVR What are you un american? I have two DVR's
What is this DVR thing you speak of?
It's my lifeline to 95 percent of the things I watch on TV
I AM ALWAYS RIGHT... except when I am wrong.
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 27,946 Likes: 763
Legend
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Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 27,946 Likes: 763 |
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
I don't buy the "we didn't give him a stadium" crap because we got a shiny new stadium when the team was brought back.
The whole thing is shady. I'm not sure about the way Al Lerner went about it too. I wish there was more light shed on the story.
I'm convinced that the Browns was the NFL's sacrificial lamb: "If *they* can pick up and move because they can't get a stadium deal, then ANY team can do it."
Look at how many new stadiums were built in the few years immediately following it, and in total since then. I really don't see it as coincidence at all.
It'd take an awful lot to convince me that the whole thing wasn't completely premeditated and orchestrated, including Lerner being "awarded" the new franchise. Of course he got it... it was his reward for helping the move happen in the first place.
I've heard that angle before, and it's interesting. 100% spot on with the spurt in new stadiums across the league.
We were made an example of.
The first year of the NFL Salary Cap was 1994.... and here was an owner operating in a model that all but guarantees that they cannot lose money, going bankrupt.
How does the league spin that? I'd bet that Modell was told he'd be allowed to keep the team, but he's gotta do this one thing - move the Browns. Hell, they may have still forced his sale to Bisciotti, or Modell did it just because he was THAT bad with money. In any case, I firmly believe that it's a case where the NFL was not going to waste a perfectly good crisis.
Browns is the Browns
... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.
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Legend
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Legend
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Your thoughts on the matter of the NFL making a example of Cleveland remind me of Ditka during the final broadcast with Costas. Ditka said something to that affect of, "If this can happen in Cleveland, it can happen anywhere."
Like you say, new stadiums popped up everywhere, with the the threat of a move otherwise, after the Cleveland incident.
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All Pro
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All Pro
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Belichick took a 3-13 team and made it good. I liked the part about the 70-page binder--he sold Art on how he was going to improve the team.
Remember, BB had some things going against him.
1) No FA until '93. That is why the '94 team did remarkably well--they had taken a decent team and made it elite w/infusion of FA.
2) The only option was Plan B (player swap), and BB tried to make use of it as he could, esp. by stealing div. rivals (James Brooks, Lorenzo White) from Cin. and Hou.
3) the NFC was so powerful, that BB wanted to beat the best. Problem was, he had to get by the AFC and struggled with Hou. and Pitt. He'd beat the elite (SF, Dal, GB, Philly) but struggle with so-so AFC teams like Seattle (average) and Cinci (below-average, but always played us hard) and SD.
Even with all that badness, he still got the team to about a .500 record, or slightly below. The 1990 team he took over still has the team record for points allowed (Season from Hell). 462 points or 28.9 ppg allowed--not even '99, '00 or '12 was that bad defensively.
I didn't appreciate BB as much as I should have growing up. He had the Browns on the rise in an era where teams could NOT turn around quickly.
Go Browns!
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