SCOTTSDALE, Ariz. -- Players know not to get too wrapped up in statistics during Spring Training. The sample size is small, the competition is often below big league standards and the focus is supposed to be on preparation rather than production.
All of that said, Indians third baseman Lonnie Chisenhall is enjoying his strong start this spring.
"It's early. I have less than 20 at-bats," Chisenhall said Tuesday. "But I'm happy with where I am right now. I feel comfortable at the plate. Every now and then, I feel a little rusty up there on certain pitches and things like that, but I feel good so far."
During Monday's 13-5 victory over the Cubs, Chisenhall had a busy afternoon at Hohokam Stadium. The 24-year-old third baseman went 3-for-3 with a home run, double and three RBIs. He added three runs scored and one walk in the performance.
Tribe manager Terry Francona was impressed with Chisenhall's fourth-inning single off Chicago lefty Brooks Raley.
"It was nice to see him off a lefty," Francona said. "He's a really aggressive kid. The more he stays in the strike zone, it's not going to matter left or right. He's got a really quick bat. It's just recognizing pitches in the strike zone and swinging at pitches he can do something with. That comes with experience."
In parts of two seasons with the Indians, Chisenhall has hit .260 with a .295 on-base percentage and a .421 slugging percentage in 109 games. Over that span, the third baseman has collected 12 homers, 19 doubles and 38 RBIs. He has hit .227 against lefties, compared to .271 off right-handers.
This spring, Chisenhall has hit at a .471 (8-for-17) clip with two homers and eight RBIs through seven Cactus League games.
Unlike the past two springs, Chisenhall entered camp this year with third base reserved for him come Opening Day. With additions such as center fielder Michael Bourn, first baseman Nick Swisher and designated hitter Mark Reynolds, Chisenhall projects to hit in the lower third of Cleveland's lineup.
"Hitting in the bottom of the lineup, you have the ability to score a lot of runs," Chisenhall said. "Getting on base, you know you have the top of the order coming up to drive you in. I look forward to hitting wherever [Francona] puts me -- most likely seven, eight or nine. We've got a good lineup top to bottom."
I think that the addition of real MLB hitters to bat in front of him will really help Chisenhall.
He should see more RBI opportunities, and should see better pitches. I mean, guys like Jason Donald, Jack Hannahan, Matt LaPorta, Casey Kotchman, Johnny Damon, Aaron Cunningham, Brent Lillibridge, and the inimitable Shelly Duncan sure didn't put the fear of dog into opposing pitchers, let alone the fear of God.
Good news for the Indians today - 4 shutout innings for Masterson. (Even if it does look like a Giants AAA team he faced.) He threw strikes. Also, another perfect inning for Hagadone in relief. He could be huge as a late inning / matchup lefty for this bullpen.
That Hagadone/Hill battle for the final bullpen spot is shaping up pretty well.
Tigers are on the hunt for a closer. I would trade them Perez for Rick Porcello right now, save $3 million in salary, get younger, and improve the rotation instantly.
Lots of power arms in the pen, but I'm hesitant to trade Perez. I'm not sure Pestano has the same closer's mentality as Perez. Or slider, for that matter.
In other news, here's an article in todays PD. I'm starting to think that Kazmir is going to make this rotation ...
Scott Kazmir uses a 'B' outing to perfect an 'A' slider: Cleveland Indians Insider
By Paul Hoynes The Plain Dealer March 06, 2013
GOODYEAR, Ariz. -- Left-hander Scott Kazmir's private pitching session went well Wednesday morning on Field 6 at the Indians' training complex. He could tell because his slider was not only sliding, but diving.
Kazmir, competing for the fifth spot in the rotation, asked for and was granted a minor-league setting to get a better and deeper break on his slider because he knew he wouldn't throw it in a Cactus League game if the pitch started to get hit.
He went three scoreless innings, allowing three hits and one walk with five strikeouts.
"I'm definitely getting a better feel for the slider," he said. "I've made some adjustments that have really helped me out as far as getting what I wanted out of the break and making it a little later."
That the Indians granted Kazmir's request speaks well of his chances of being in the rotation on opening day, although Trevor Bauer, Carlos Carrasco, Daisuke Matsuzaka and David Huff will have something to say about that before the Indians break camp March 30.
"He's a veteran," said pitching coach Mickey Callaway. "He knows what it takes for him to get ready. We want him to get ready, however, [the way] he feels he can best pitch. We're glad he's communicating with us on everything."
Kazmir hasn't pitched regularly in the big leagues since 2010, when he went 9-15 with the Angels. The next year he made one appearance for the Angels before being sent to the minors.
Terry Francona still has questions that need to be answered.
"Does he hold his stuff?" he asked. "Does he get better as the spring goes along? Or does he back off? At the beginning of camp, if you had to play a game, he could have gone out there with that stuff and won. That's how impressive he was."
Kazmir has been clocked between 90-92 mph this spring. He said when he's right, he's usually throws his slider between 83-84 and his curve from 77-78.
all reports are that Kazmir has been great this spring. the real question is going to be if he can keep that fastball up throughout a season since he has been gone so long, but he should make the team.
Quote: all reports are that Kazmir has been great this spring. the real question is going to be if he can keep that fastball up throughout a season since he has been gone so long, but he should make the team.
Quote: all reports are that Kazmir has been great this spring. the real question is going to be if he can keep that fastball up throughout a season since he has been gone so long, but he should make the team.
Sounds like Dice-K is the odd man out?
even his "good" year was proven to be more luck than good pitching. i feared that his ties to Francona would get his terrible WHIP ways onto the staff.
I'd rather have Kazmir anyway, could use a lefty. Seems like he has done more to win the job too.
Heard on the radio that his absence the last few years wasn't injury related, he pretty much just lost his mojo. So it's not like there is a risk of him re-injuring something.
Either way, I'm going to put my money where my mouth is, and try and hit up a game when I am in town. I am going to try and maybe see them here at the Cell too.
why is Furcal missing the season Tribe Talk? well, we have a certain SS whom we likely will not be able to re-sign and the Cardinals have one of the richest farm systems in MLB.
i know it'd be a departure from the good vibrations signings we have done, but if they are desperate, then I'd still be putting the worm out on the line.
GOODYEAR, Ariz. -- Ubaldo Jimenez was good Thursday as the Indians beat the Giants, 6-4. The one run he allowed in four Þnnings was a sign of that.
A stronger indication was that after his day was done against the Giants, he went to the bullpen at Goodyear Ballpark and threw 15 more pitches to get his required work in. Anytime Jimenez leaves a game with pitches to spare, it's a good day.
Just ask former manager Manny Acta, who watched Jimenez reach the seventh inning in only eight of his 31 starts last season because he threw too many pitches or allowed too many hits and runs.
Jimenez, who on Thursday struck out two, walked none and allowed three hits, says the tempo new pitching coach Mickey Callaway has added to his delivery is helping.
"It is working," said Jimenez. "It's taking all my momentum to home plate. I was stopping during the windup [before] and then I had to start over again. Now I'm trying to stay in one movement."
Jimenez lost 17 games last year. In the last two years, he's lost 30, including 21 since the Indians acquired from Colorado on July 31, 2011.
"I let the team down last year," he said. "The last two years have been really hard. They brought me over here because they believe in me. I haven't been able to show it, but I looking forward to do that this year."
Jimenez can be a free agent after the season. "I don't worry about that," he said. "For me, I need to worry about showing something to the team. I want to show what I can do for them, help them out and win."
Manager Terry Francona liked the way Jimenez controlled the damage when Michael Bourn lost Brandon Crawford's fly ball in the sun for a triple in the fourth. Hunter Pence singled for a 1-0 lead, but Jimenez retired the next two batters.
"When you can limit damage, that's always great," said Francona. "One didn't turn into three or four runs."
Nothing to it: Nick Swisher hit his third homer of the spring, a three-run shot off the batter's eye in center in the fifth inning. Swisher is hitting .524 (11-for-21) with three homers and 10 RBI in eight games.
When a reporter commented to Francona that Swisher just keeps hitting, Francona said, "He better. That's what we got him for. Don't act surprised."
On the mend: Michael Brantley returned to practice after getting spiked Feb. 25 against Oakland and taking 15 stitches in his left forearm. Francona said Brantley is expected to return to the lineup Sunday against Texas.
"We'll give Brantley a couple of days to practice and the probably play him three or four innings Sunday," said Francona. Brantley is hitting .833 (5-for-6) with four doubles in three games this spring.
In other medical news, Francona said closer Chris Perez could start his throwing program Sunday. Perez has been out with a strained right shoulder suffered Feb. 26 against Kansas City.
"Chris has a couple of more days without picking up a ball," said Francona. "Then we'll take another look at the situation. He's doing very well."
Sign 'em up: Eleven Indians who do not have enough service time to qualify for arbitration signed one-year deals Thursday. They included Brantley, Cody Allen, Lonnie Chisenhall, Tim Fedroff, Trey Haley, T.J. House, Corey Kluber, Zach McAllister, Chris McGuiness, Danny Salazar and Bryan Shaw.
Players not eligible for arbitration have until Tuesday to sign or have their contracts renewed at their team's discretion. Unsigned Indians include Jason Kipnis, Scott Barnes, Trevor Bauer, Carlos Carrasco, Nick Hagadone, Frank Herrmann, David Huff, Chen-Chang Lee, Josh Tomlin, Yan Gomes, Juan Diaz, Mike McDade, Cord Phelps and Ezequiel Carrera.
Stay hot: Utility man Ryan Raburn had two more hits Thursday, including a two-run double, to raise his average to .550 (11-for-20) with four homers and 11 RBI.
"Not to get too far ahead of myself, but he's got the kind of swing that plays off the bench," said Francona.
Finally: Herrmann will visit Dr. David Altchek in New York next week to get another opinion on his injured right elbow. Herrmann could be facing Tommy John surgery.
Watched it this morning. Kazmir was excellent with his cutter and fastball. His slider still wasn't there. He only threw it a handful of times, but I only saw two that worked. That was a little disappointing to me. He needs that pitch to be successful for an extended period of time.
What if Ubaldo struggles out of the gate? What if a few months in, we're getting the same results? Do you think they take him out of the rotation or even send him down?
Ubaldo has until June, in my mind. At the end of June, Bauer can come up without having any impact on his Super-2 status. I'm guessing Carrasco will stay in Goodyear for a while and pitch out of extended spring training, as he doesn't look like he's got a feel for his pitches yet, in my mind. Say he stays there until May, that gives him a month at Columbus before June and that same timetable. I honestly think that if there's an injury or ineffectiveness to the rotation, Corey Kluber gets the call for a while to start. An ineffective and wild Ubaldo is still probably better than Corey Kluber regularly. Get to about mid-June, and its a different story entirely.
I wonder what will happen to Carrasco? I think that he is talent to hold onto somehow. Outside of getting hit in the head, he just had something happen to his elbow, no?
Do we have any minor league options with him? I'm not too familiar on how that whole process works.
8.2 K per 9 innings is a pretty good peripheral. He was never a flamethrower, but he must have had something going for him. He won 2 ALCS games and 1 WS game. I wish CC had done 1/3 as well for us in 2007. Point being, he was clutch for Boston, as opposed to Sabathia for us. Its not always about throwing gas.
That said, I agree he can't pitch in MLB if his fastball is 83-86, but maybe he'll find it in his next few outings.
Quote: Carrasco and Bauer will be on an innings limit. Kazmir will likely only be good for so many innings as well (due to being out for so long).
Between the 3 guys, hopefully we can get 200+ quality IP this year.
Could be very true. In fact, for any MLB team, you can go through starters quite a bit due to injury. Just don't want to lose Carrasco cause I assume someone like Myers/Kasmir are stop gaps (not so much Kasmir, maybe) and McCallister is somewhat unknown. Carrasco is young and was considered a prospect.
I wonder how Myers gets penciled in automatically as #3 starter? He pitched in the bullpen last year, I think. It occurs to me that we have a pitching staff full of innings-eaters, but man, someone has to win some games. Who's gonna be the 15-17 game winner? Masterson? Ubaldo? Its possible, but not likely. Where is the Ace, the streak-stopper, the Game 1 of the playoffs starter?
Could it be there's another move coming for a starter, maybe involving Asdrubal and Perez?
Just saw it on SportsNation, kinda funny. I don't really care of the Indians, I'm a Yankee fan, and now that I'm in ChiTown I'm probably gonna follow the Cubs (that way loyalties don't get messed with)
Quote: I don't really care of the Indians, I'm a Yankee fan, and now that I'm in ChiTown I'm probably gonna follow the Cubs (that way loyalties don't get messed with)
Sorry.
I will say that Wrigley is a must for every baseball fan, at least once. After a few times, you get sick of the fact that the place is a dump. The little area around it is great though.
Watched the game. He is still not fixed and the line doesn't show much of the problem. He was all over the place, topped out at about 90 mph. His delivery looks much better and the results were better, but still not what we paid for. Of course, Alex White and Drew Pomeranz have both been terrible, so I guess it was a fair trade.
Cleveland Indians name Scott Kazmir as their fifth starter; set opening day roster
By Paul Hoynes The Plain Dealer March 25, 2013
GOODYEAR, Ariz. -- The Indians announced this afternoon that left-hander Scott Kazmir has been named the fifth starter.
Kazmir will be added to the roster on April 6 so he can face his old team, the Tampa Bay Rays. Righthander Carlos Carrasco will start with the big league club and serve a six-game suspension.
In other moves, Jason Giambi was placed on the disabled list with a lower back strain. Pitchers Nick Hagadone and Bryan Shaw will be added to the 25-man roster, along with utility man Ryan Raburn. Yan Gomes and Cord Phelps were optioned to Class AAA Columbus.
GM Chris Antonetti said that outfielder Ezequiel Carrera and left-hander David Huff, both out of options, will not make the 25-man roster and he'll try to trade them. The team originally said they put Frank Herrmann on the 60-day disabled list, but later announced that Carrera had been designated for assignment to make room for Giambi on the 40-man roster. Herrmann, who underwent Tommy John surgery earlier this spring, is still on the active roster.
The Indians will open the season April 2 with the four-man starting rotation of Justin Masterson, Ubaldo Jimenez, Brett Myers and Zach McAllister. There will be eight pitchers in the bullpen including Chris Perez, Vinnie Pestano, Joe Smith, Cody Allen, Matt Albers, Rich Hill, Hagadone and Shaw.
When Carrasco is done serving his six-game suspesnion on April 7, he will be optioned to Class AAA Columbus. When Kazmir is added to the roster, a player will have to be sent down to make space.
Giambi, whose unexpected back injury gave the Indians some wiggle room, can be activated on April 9. He's expected to travel with the Indians when they break camp Saturday.
Kazmir signed a minor-league deal with the Indians on Jan. 8. He'll make $1 million with a chance to earn another $1.75 million in incentives.
In six appearances this spring, including two "B" games, Kazmir struck out 23, walked three and allowed eight earned runs and 29 hits in 21 innings. He'd been nearly flawless until Saturday when Seattle scored five runs on 13 hits against him.
Kazmir has not pitched in the big leagues since 2011 and has not taken a regular turn in a big-league rotation since 2011. Last year he went 3-6 with a 5.34 ERA in 14 starts for the Sugar Land Skeeters of the Atlantic League.
Carrasco missed last season recovering from Tommy John surgery. He's 2-1 with a 6.00 ERA in five Cactus League appearances, including four starts.
Giambi, 42, signed a minor-league deal with the Indians on Feb. 9. He is scheduled to make $750,000 plus incentives.
This spring, Giambi is hitting .207 (6-for-29) with one double, three homers and five RBI. He is expected to DH against right-handed starters a couple of times a week. He enters the season with 429 homers and 1,405 RBI.
Giambi spent the last three-plus seasons with Colorado.
Raburn signed a minor-league deal which will pay him $1 million with a chance to earn $750,000 in incentives. He's had a great spring, hitting .359 with four HRs and 11 RBI, and is expected to play second and third base and left field.
Here's what the Tribe's 25-man roster will look like come opening day.
-Bullpen (9): Chris Perez, Vinnie Pestano, Joe Smith, Cody Allen, Bryan Shaw, Matt Albers, Ken Hill, Nick Hagadone and Carlos Carrasco (serving six-game suspension).
-Catchers (2): Carlos Santana, Lou Marson.
-Infielders (7): Nick Swisher, Jason Kipnis, Asdrubal Cabrera, Lonnie Chisenhall, Mike Aviles, Mark Reynolds, Ryan Raburn.
-Outfielders (3): Michael Brantley, Michael Bourn, Drew Stubbs.
I keep seeing people think we have a puncher's chance vs. Detroit, so I thought I would put this out here:
Their rotation is still much better than average (and our's) even without Verlander. hate defending Detroit, but better to know now than later (2012 stats):
Masterson had the best FIP of starters on the Tribe in 2012: 4.16 w/ an ERA of 4.93.
And, remember, this is spotting the Tribe Justin Verlander. On offense, the Tigers added Torri Hunter('12 WAR= 5.5) and Victor Martinez ('11 WAR = 2.9) to an offense that already had Miggy, Prince, and Austin Jackson.
It's baseball, anything can happen, but last year, I saw potential pitfalls for the Tigers (bullpen, unproven SP2-5, potentially weak lineup after Miggy & Prince). This season, they still may have bullpen issues. SP2-5 is much more proven, and they have added hitters + Austin proved to be real.
The Tribe's pitching is reliant on too much potential right now. There isn't much of a given with any of those guys.
I love what the organization did. They finally put forth effort in putting something on the field. I know some of it was due to dead weight coming off the books, but they could have easily just pocketed the money. Give credit where credit is due.
But I still think you're playing with fire when dealing with Masterson who is inconsistent, and Ubaldo, whom I don't need to get into.
I don't want to put a guess on the number of wins, I'm just glad this team is better.
the numbers say we went from a projected 69win club (based on last years stats - we actually won 68) to a 77-82 win club.
I think Detroit is a 100win club.
The good thing is that the Rangers, Angels, Rays and Yankees all took a few steps back. The Orioles and Athletics are unlikely to replicate last season. So, the 2nd wild card might be within reach.
That is, if 2 of our pitchers really step up and the rest aren't horrible, the lineup produces a big boost as we hope, including Santana, Kipnis, and Brantley taking big steps forward and Asdrubal having a big contract year.
It is alot to ask. But, I also don't think we'll have the epic horrific end that we did last season. From the end of July to October that team was just unwatchable.
Our rotation continues to be our biggest weakness and I don't think we have anyone else in the AA or AAA pipeline (outside of Bauer) in the near future. And considering we spent a ton of money on offense, not sure the Dolans will dish out more money in 2014 and beyond for FA pitching. But the silver lining is that is IF our pitching can get us somewhere into the 6th inning and beyond with a lead, I think our bullpen is one of the best in the American League.
Carrasco is someone to keep an eye on coming from Tommy John surgery. McAllister (Yankees former prospect) is still somewhat of an unknown but made the #4 spot.
I think we're gonna be disappointed with Brett Myers this year.
What I think needs to happen for the Indians to win 85+ games and get one of the wild card spots is for either Masterson or Jimenez to finally find "it". Then we'll need a wildcard like Kazmir, Carrasco, or Bauer to catch fire and provide a source of unexpected wins. I have no expectations for Myers or McAlister, other than to eat some innings and hopefully win half the time, or thereabouts. I agree that the Tigers are the class of MLB.
not sure if this is a prediction thread, but here's mine....this is the most excited for opening day I have been in many years. that being said, pitching wins games and I just don't see the Tribe with enough of it to hoist a pennant. 82-80 third place in the central.
1. Michael Bourn CF 2. Asdrubal Cabrera SS 3. Jason Kipnis 2B 4. Nick Swisher 1B 5. Michael Brantley LF 6. Carlos Santana C 7. Mark Reynolds DH 8. Lonnie Chisenhall 3B 9. Drew Stubbs RF
I hope you're right. I'm a little concerned that Bourne, Kipnis, and Stubbs had problems hitting in ST. But I'm pretty sure at least Bourne and Kipnis will be okay. Stubbs could be replaced by Swisher in RF if he struggles, and we'd have to call up someone to DH or play 1B. Or maybe we could put Aviles or Raburn at 1B.
Good win. Seemed like everyone was playing their A game.
I'll get it out of the way...
- Masterson is on pace to only have a 1.5 ERA - Asdrubal is on pace to rack up 324 RBIs - Brantley is on pace to hit .500 for the whole season - Perez is on pace to have 162 saves (100% save rate) - Fracona is on pace to be the first manager to have an undefeated season
That was a fun game to watch! Masterson was a high-wire act at the start, but settled in beautifully. The Bullpen Mafia picked up were it left off and we scored some runs. Doesn't get any better than that!
Good game, good win. Masterson was hard to watch for a few innings because his stuff was moving so much he couldn't spot his fastball. Once he got straightened out, he looked like a front of the rotation starter. When Perez came in, I admit to having a flashback to last years opener, but he got the job done.
Jeez, what is with Indians pitchers and abdominal / oblique strains. Sucks for Hagadone, he was lights out in ST.
Abdominal injury could put Scott Kazmir on DL: Cleveland Indians Insider
By Paul Hoynes, The Plain Dealer April 02, 2013
TORONTO -- The Indians did something they didn't want to do Tuesday just a couple of hours before opening the season against Toronto at Rogers Centre.
They added left-hander Scott Kazmir to the 40-man roster and optioned Nick Hagadone, another left-hander, to Class AAA Columbus. So much for manager Terry Francona having an eight-man bullpen for the first week of the regular season and so much -- perhaps -- for Kazmir continuing his comeback story by making his first big-league start since 2011 on Saturday.
Kazmir suffered an injury to his abdominal/rib cage area playing catch during Monday's workout at Rogers Centre. If Kazmir is injured, the Indians had to put him on the 40-man roster Tuesday in order to start the clock running on his time on the disabled list if that's where he lands.
The Tribe's original idea was to wait until Saturday to activate Kazmir, who won the fifth spot in the rotation as a spring-training invitee. It would have allowed Francona to use an eight-man bullpen to make up for the fact that the Indians opened the season a man short because while Carlos Carrasco is on the 25-man roster, he's ineligible because he's serving a six-game suspension dating back to 2011.
Assistant General Manager Mike Chernoff said Kazmir will try to throw a bullpen session Wednesday. The results will almost assuredly determine if Kazmir goes on the disabled list or pitches Saturday against Tampa Bay. If it's the DL, the Indians have a choice of starters at Class AAA Columbus including Daisuke Matsuzaka, Trevor Bauer, Corey Kluber or Joe Martinez. David Huff, who went through waivers unclaimed and was outrighted to Columbus on Tuesday, might even be an option.
Bauer, Kluber and Martinez are on the roster. Matsuzaka and Huff are not.
"You can't backdate a player unless he's on the roster," said Chernoff. "And because we selected Scott to the roster, we have to make a 25-man roster move and that's why we sent down Nick."
Hagadone had an excellent spring, allowing one run in 9 2/3 innings. He struck out 11, walked two and allowed six hits.
Kazmir went 1-0 with a 3.46 ERA in four Cactus League games this spring to win the fifth spot in the rotation. The move leaves the Indians with just one lefty in the bullpen -- Rich Hill.
"We'll just have to wait until he throws his side session and then re-assess him," said Chernoff.
Waiver news: Outfielder Ezequiel Carrera was claimed on waivers by the Phillies on Tuesday. Huff, meanwhile, cleared waivers and was outrighted to Columbus. Huff had no choice but to accept the assignment because it was the first time he'd been outrighted.
"I'm happy Ezequiel got a big-league job," said Francona.
The Indians told Carrera and Huff on March 25 that they were not going to make the club. Since they were out of options, other teams had a chance to claim them once they were put on waivers. The Indians immediately designated Carrera for assignment, but waited until Sunday to DFA Huff because they were trying to trade him.
Carrera hit .279 (12-for-43) with one homer and three RBI this spring. He led the big leagues with 11 steals in 13 attempts. Huff went 1-1 with a 5.82 ERA in nine games, including one start.
Drop the y: The name plate above Ryan Raburn's locker in the visitors clubhouse at Rogers Centre spelled his last name Rayburn.
"They spell it wrong everywhere I go," said Raburn. "I don't care, as long as I'm here."
Raburn made the Indians as a spring-training invitee.
Opening day nerves: Francona has been through a lot of opening days as a player, coach and manager. They all feel the same to him.
"It never changes," he said. "I think I slept from 6 to 8:30 this morning. It's half panic, half excitement, but in a good way. It's like one of the best feelings ever. Even though you're scored or nervous, it's an unbelievable feeling."
Finally: The Indians' most frequent opening day opponent? The White Sox and Tigers. They've played them 29 times each to start the season.
the Asdrubal double-play seemed to calm Masterson down along with the rest of the team and it was the first point that I felt "okay, we have this game" as well. Great, great play/game for him.
Masterson was outside the zone too much and not fooling the batters when he did it. he was okay, but certainly not 2011 Masterson. it's just one game, but the first 3 innings he looked like a middle to bottom of the rotation starter. hopefully, he has the opposite of last season (looked great in game1, not so much for the rest). for now, we can say he was shaking loose the cobwebs the first few innings and settled down and the "real" Masterson was from that point forward
Yep. You gotta show you can throw strikes before you can get guys to swing at pitches out of the zone. With the help of his defense, however, Masty was able to limit Toronto to three hits. Being more of a pitch-to-contact pitcher, that's a good start. Hopefully, he'll get it dialed-in as the season progresses.
Quote: the Asdrubal double-play seemed to calm Masterson down along with the rest of the team and it was the first point that I felt "okay, we have this game" as well. Great, great play/game for him.
Masterson was outside the zone too much and not fooling the batters when he did it. he was okay, but certainly not 2011 Masterson. it's just one game, but the first 3 innings he looked like a middle to bottom of the rotation starter. hopefully, he has the opposite of last season (looked great in game1, not so much for the rest). for now, we can say he was shaking loose the cobwebs the first few innings and settled down and the "real" Masterson was from that point forward
That double play ball was the game! I think Toronto would have had a crooked number on the board that inning if it went through Ashtabula.
We should have a truly exceptional defense this year. We have solid gloves everywhere, and exceptional speed and quickness at most spots.
Kipnis and Asdrubal make a nice double play combination. (and both made nice stops last night) Swisher at first is a huge bonus defensively. Nothing is going to get by him. Our outfield has speed to burn, and can cover like crazy. Chisenhall is probably the weakest fielder in the regular lineup, and he's pretty decent.
Our pitchers should love this ..... because this defense gives them every opportunity to have the best ERA possible. They'll make the routine plays, and many spectacular ones as well.
really our only weak spots on defense are 3B, C, and Asdrubal's range (he has a great glove and arm...his range isn't that great relative to other SS's).
We're off to a 2-0 start after tonight's 11th inning walk off homer from Mark Reynolds.
Excellent start from Ubaldo tonight. he certainly pitched well enough for a win. Perez blew his 1st save of the year ... but the team still came through in the end.
Michael Brantley went 4-5 to raise his average to .714. Not too shabby. lol
Quote: Hate to sound negative or like I'm some maven of mechanics, because Jimenez did pitch well enough to win, but he still looks like a mess to me.
He is always going to look like a mess. That wind up isn't going to change now. But they have been working on him being more consistent in his pace and to trust his 92mph fastball instead of trying to reach back and throw it 97mph.
I wasn't thinking so much of his windup as much as how he finishes. When you think of the classic RH power pitchers like Seaver, Ryan, Clemens - they all drove hard off the rubber and landed compact and square to the plate. Ubaldo looks to me like he opens up early, and his landing foot ends up way over towards the 1B side of the mound and his body kind of lurching towards 1B. It seems like his pitching arm is trailing late behind his body. I've been searching youtube for tape of his good year in Colorado, when he was consistently above 95 MPH, to see if he always threw that way. Again, the disclamer, I've never pitched and I'm not an expert - but I'd love to see someone like Leo Mazzone or Tom Seaver watch him and give him some tips on driving through the ball with his delivery.
We're off to a 2-0 start after tonight's 11th inning walk off homer from Mark Reynolds.
Excellent start from Ubaldo tonight. he certainly pitched well enough for a win. Perez blew his 1st save of the year ... but the team still came through in the end.
Michael Brantley went 4-5 to raise his average to .714. Not too shabby. lol
Woohoo!
This team, through 2 games at least, is playing good ball. I haven't seen the wasted at bats, stupid plays on the bases, the offense scratching out 1 run only to have the pitcher give up 4 the next half inning...
A lot of it is the new talent, but man, Tito's gotta have something to do with that. Was Acta really THAT bad? Again, it's only 2 games, but this looks like a totally different team.
And on Perez, i'm not going to blast him just yet. Hitting a mistake 400 feet is something Bautista is going to do about 40 more times this year.
at this point, you don't want him to completely overwork his delivery. he patterned himself after Pedro and his funky, quick delivery w/o any pitching coach helping and some pitching coaches in the minors helped him at least make sense of it enough to be successful.
it's like Youk's swing. it's messy and ugly, but it tends to get the job done well enough. you mess with it at this point and he'll likely be worse.
Yeah, I mean if you're going to make a change like that, it better be almost right after season's end, so he has all winter to master it.
I still have my doubts about him, but I'd be lying if I said yesterday wasn't promising.
As far as the rest of the game goes, I kinda like that Perez challenged Bautista. He lost the battle, but I think it was still better than pitching around him and putting guys on in a 9th inning scenario. Worst case scenario is that Bautista takes you deep and the game is tied, and you can still get out of the inning with nobody on, and a solid bullpen to go into extras. I think with all the speed we have on offense now, that we should be better in extra innings, with being able to swipe bases and move guys over, etc...
Although Tito was not lying when he said this group was going to strike out a lot. Holy hell he wasn't lying.
Yeah, I was wondring last night if sabermetricians have a stat for strikeouts with men in scoring position with less than 2 outs ... K/RISP<2. We had about 6 last night.
I thought it was hilarious and ironic that the guy who caught Mark Reynolds home run in the stadium was the guy putting up all the "K's" on the side of the railing.. It was the first thing I noticed.
Quote: at this point, you don't want him to completely overwork his delivery. he patterned himself after Pedro and his funky, quick delivery w/o any pitching coach helping and some pitching coaches in the minors helped him at least make sense of it enough to be successful.
it's like Youk's swing. it's messy and ugly, but it tends to get the job done well enough. you mess with it at this point and he'll likely be worse.
Last year the team tried to "fix" Santana's hitting stance, and stride to the ball. He was in a season-long funk until they told him to go back to doing things his old way. Sometimes all screwed up works best. (That's my personal philosophy)
I get what you and Spergeon are saying - no harm, no foul - but you never want to play extra innings on the road. The deck is stacked against you. IMO, Perez didn't do his job. He started Bautista off with a low outside slider, but then missed inside with a knee-high fastball. After getting him to chase the outside slider, why not throw 2 more in the same general location? I know it sounds like second guessing, but my wife would testify that I said "this guy shouldn't see a fastball here" just before he hit the laser shot.
1) On Ubaldo, he had no control of the fastball last night. He used the fastball to pull attention from his offspeed stuff. His curve may have been the best since he came to Cleveland. That curveball is what got him through 6 innings. Great movement, consistent location. Also, on the topic, there is a very good article on Ubaldo from Sports on Earth talking about what has lead to this.
2.) On the Perez pitch, Santana was set up in, off the plate. Perez just didn't hit the glove. I have no problem throwing a fastball there, as long as its in a place that it cannot be hit. Perez missed the spot.
3.) I have to think Kazmir goes on the DL before tonight's game. Myers is probably looking at 5 innings, and you don't have Pestano, Smith, or Perez available in all likelihood. Albers, Shaw and Hill will be on their second night. Cody Allen will be the depth pitcher setting up, somebody in the back end of the pen. I'm not sure that, since they're calling up Bauer on Saturday, they don't just place Kazmir on the DL, recall Hagadone and then send him back for Bauer.
Quote: Bauer is coming up? Is he going to start or is he going to the pen? Wow, I didn't think we'd see him this early.
I believe that's a guess based on the Clippers setting their initial starting rotation without Bauer being in it at the moment.
which I have seen speculated elsewhere is only due to the Indians wanting to limit Bauer's total IP this season. so, if we call him up in June or so, he will have more IP left to give the Tribe.
The Indians announced today that he will make the start on Saturday. It was obvious once the Clips removed him from the rotation. He'll just get one start, then they'll give the spot to Carrasco until Kazmir is able to return, if I'm reading the tea leaves correctly.
Brett Myers gives up 21 runs in 21 spring training innings, now he has given up 7 ER in 5 innings, don't think he can last that long with outings like these. I wouldn't be mad if he was DFA'd tomorrow and Bauer, Matsuzaka, or Carrasco were put in the #3 spot.
If you can't tell I really hated the Myers signing, I really hate it even more now!!!
the Houston Astros were absolutely desperate for starting pitching and he was bad enough they moved him to the bullpen because it was the only way they figured he could recoup enough value to trade.
Myers was a terrible signing and hopefully Carrasco/Bauer/Kazmir take most of his starts this season.
Agreed. He was awful all Spring. He blew his first start (badly). He needs to go. Now. Not sure what Terry was thinking putting this guy in the rotation.
Kinda looking forward to seeing Bauer..Boy, we look like a legit team so far..Reynolds picking it up, Swisher locking in..I just hope the Meyers debacle can be resolved in a hurry..I was worried about last nights game after we went so deep into the pen Wednesday..Oh well 3 down 159 to go should be fun
Carrasco is eligible to start Sunday, I think Bauer starts Saturday, then gets sent back down with Carrasco taking his spot. Now when Kazmir comes back, Myers will have maybe 2 more starts that is when a decision will have to made.
Thought I read somewhere that Francona said something along the lines of giving the pitching staff (or possibly everybody) 6 weeks before making any significant changes. Not sure exactly, this was a while back.
I think that we should give him more than 1 start .... though his past doesn't give me much reason to want to give him many chances.
IMO? I would have kept Huff over this guy (if nothing else to keep the spot warm for Carasco or one of the other youngsters). Pitching is going to be our Achilles heel all season long, but we can't have guys tossing batting practice like that in the middle of our rotation.
I think that we should give him more than 1 start .... though his past doesn't give me much reason to want to give him many chances.
IMO? I would have kept Huff over this guy (if nothing else to keep the spot warm for Carasco or one of the other youngsters). Pitching is going to be our Achilles heel all season long, but we can't have guys tossing batting practice like that in the middle of our rotation.
or one of these guys:
I said it the day we signed him and will repeat until Myers shows that it wasn't. He wasn't good in Houston, they were desperate for starting pitching yet moved him to the bullpen to try get anything out of him.
Iwakuma signed a 2yr $7mil/year deal with M`s
McCarthy signed a 2yr $7.75mil/year deal with Arizona
Shaun Marcum signed for $4mil w/ Mets (elbow issues though)
Kyle Lohse signed a 3yr deal for $11mil/year w/ the Brewers (+4th round pick if we grabbed him)
others I'd take over Myers:
Blanton signed a 2yr $7.5mil/year deal with Dodgers even Correia signed a 2yr $5mil/year deal with Twins and I'd also have taken Scott Baker for 1yr $5.5mil with Cubs
Baker and Marcum are already out with injuries, so I wouldn't argue for them. I've been a long time fan of Chris Young, who just signed a minor league deal with the Nationals. I really wanted the Tribe to take a chance on him. I like McCarthy, although his start wasn't much better than Myers'.
Marson leaves with what has to be a concussion. Tribe loses the DH for the rest of the game as Santana moves back behind the plate. Gonna be a roster move or two after the game.
Drew Pomeranz is in AAA, Alex White was traded to Astros in offseason and is now out for the season with Tommy John surgery.
Believe me I hated the trade when it happened, but these two guys are proving why they were just prospects. I know Jimenez is still struggling but he is still a major league pitcher.
By the way was anyone else watching the Braves when the Upton brothers hit back to back homers to tie then walk off win tonight? Not a Braves fan but that was awesome watching live.
The shot Marson took was NFL-worthy. Actually it might have been a 15 yard penalty - defenseless receiver. He hung in, caught the ball, made the tag, and held on to the ball - pretty impressive. He's a tough kid, I hope he's okay. I wish his bat was better, because I really like him behind the plate.
Bauer, on the other hand, had no command of his fastball, and he really can't pitch at this level until he does. But you can see the potential he has to be a real FOR starter if he harnesses his wildness.
This opening road trip is turning into a bit of a disappointment after starting so well. I would have been happy with 3-3 going in, but with Price pitching today for the Rays, and with the Indians' bats being asleep, it looks like we'll be 2-4 going into the home opener.
I know Bauer walked 7, but did you see the strike zone that ump was calling? It was small, there were alot of balls called that were strikes both ways.
Did you see Marson as soon as he got up, he was saying I'm OK to the trainers. Hell of a hit by Jennings.
It was a small strike zone, even worse it wasn't consistent. I saw Cobb get some pitches Bauer didn't get, but I also saw an ankle high strike for Bauer. It was a tough draw for Bauer in his first Indians start; a tough team in their own park and a fairly crappy balls-and-strikes ump. Hopefully, he learns to overcome that. Fine-tuning his location would be a major step and thats what AAA is for.
Quote: I would have been happy with 3-3 going in, but with Price pitching today for the Rays, and with the Indians' bats being asleep, it looks like we'll be 2-4 going into the home opener.
The Reverse-Curse strikes again. Every time I watch one of these routes I think "save some for tomorrow".
3-3 is a solid road trip to open the year, especially being on the road in those buildings.
It's unreal that Masterson has 2 outings against Cy Young winners, 2 wins, 1 run total given up, and yet he hasn't looked in top form. Early on in these games he has struggled a little bit, not as much yesterday, but still you would think a run that starts 2 in a row in that situation to open the year would be lights out with those numbers.
Could be a good thing or a bad thing. Either it continues and eventually bites him in the rear, or he shakes off the early inning problems and starts putting together a great first half-rest of the season.
I saw on Baseball Tonight that Justin is only the 3rd person ever to defeat both defending CY Young winners in the same season. Of course, without interleague play and free agency for most of baseball's history, there wasn't many opportunities for that to happen, but it's still pretty cool.
I'm happy with 3-3.
It's raining buckets here in Chicago. I guess there's a 50% chance of rain in Cleveland. That would stink to have the home opener postponed due to rain. Of course, it wasn't that many years ago when the opening series was postponed because of snow (and eventually re-played in Milwaukee - 2007?).
I hope they play today because it'll be a good indicator for the season. The current Yankees lineup is one that Ubaldo should be able to handle especially with their speed guys struggling.
It would be nice to at least think we'll be able to rely on Masterson and Ubaldo and a quality start here would go a long way to that thinking.
If this game was in Yankee Stadium, I would wonder if they're stealing signs from Santana to the pitchers. Even the outs have been well hit; nobody is being fooled.
Could be with the pen but Ubaldo (as others said) had NO heat at all..Stupid speculation but wonder if being the 1st game outdoors with the constant wnd threw them off a bit? Oh well still think we'll win the series (Yankees not World )
Carlos Santana was forced to exit today’s game against the Yankees in the ninth inning after he got crossed up on a pitch from his teammate Chris Perez and was struck on the left thumb. Jordan Bastian of MLB.com reports that the preliminary diagnosis is a contusion, but there should be more clarity on his status after he goes for X-rays.
An extended absence would be a tough blow, as Santana is off to a fantastic start this season. The 27-year-old went 1-for-2 with two walks before exiting today and is hitting an even .500 (13-for-26) with two home runs, four doubles and five RBI through seven games.
Lou Marson replaced Santana in the ninth inning today, but he might not be back to 100 percent after he suffered a neck strain in a home plate collision with Rays’ outfielder Desmond Jennings on Saturday. The Indians may have to add another catcher, even if Santana’s injury is a day-to-day situation.
It's 1:00pm and the Indians still haven't announced a starter for tonight's game. Who could it be? Matsuzaka, Kluber, does Masterson go on 3 days rest, what a mess already.
After watching Jimenez the other day, and he only topped out at about 86, he has got to go, his velocity has been declining since the second half of his best season 2010.
If you didn't already know they will be on ESPN tonight for Wednesday night baseball.
Corey Kluber slated to start tonight,according to the Indians. They will wait to make a roster move as, in my opinion, they are desperately praying for a rainout.
Postponed tonight. Tribe should've held off on making the move and had the flexibility to let Carrasco serve out his suspension again, or at least a few games of it.
Quote: Postponed tonight. Tribe should've held off on making the move and had the flexibility to let Carrasco serve out his suspension again, or at least a few games of it.
A smart move by Francona guessing the other day that tonight's game MAY be cancelled due to the weather (we have been forecasted to get nailed for several days.) McAllister's start shouldn't change and the rotation operates as normal....with Myers...
Rivera thanks Indians employees for memories By TOM WITHERS | Associated Press – 6 hrs ago
CLEVELAND (AP) — Before Mariano Rivera answered questions from Indians employees he wanted to personally thank on his last visit to Progressive Field, the greatest closer in history had a request of his own.
"Where's the drummer?" Rivera asked.
He wanted to finally meet the man who has kept a steady sports beat in Cleveland for 40 years, the guy sitting at the top of the bleachers year after year pounding away to spark a rally.
"Right here," John Adams said, raising one of his drum sticks so the New York legend could see him in the back of the room.
"Hey, you the man," Rivera said. "Being loyal, being there day in and day out. I really respect that."
"Thank you," Rivera said.
During his final trip around the majors, Rivera, who is retiring at the end of this, his 19th season with the Yankees, is taking time to visit with team employees who work behind the scenes. On Wednesday, Rivera met with 25 Indians employees — ushers, ticket salespersons, custodians and others — for 30 minutes before the Yankees played the Indians.
They came to say goodbye to Rivera, who answered questions, posed for pictures and handed out autographed baseballs to Clevelanders who seemed in awe of the classy gesture.
"I appreciate what you guys do," Rivera said. "We see mostly what goes on when we're on the field and not what's going on behind the scenes. I wanted to say thank you for everything that you guys do, for the love and passion you have for your team. It doesn't matter if you are a Yankee fan or not. You are a baseball fan.
"Thank you for being here. I know you are busy, but thank you for taking a little bit of time. I appreciate that."
With that, Rivera said he was ready for questions and braced himself to be peppered by some Indians die-hards who have watched No. 42 come in and close out comebacks and dash more than a few special seasons in Cleveland.
"You can say whatever you want now," Rivera said with a laugh.
It didn't take long for one of the employees to ask Rivera for his favorite memories in Cleveland. In 1997, Rivera famously gave up a game-tying homer to Sandy Alomar Jr. in the eighth inning of Game 4 of the AL division series. The Indians went on to win and take the series in five games, denying the Yankees a chance to defend their World Series title.
For Rivera, it was a rare moment of failure.
But looking back, the 43-year-old said it provided motivation.
"Let me tell you something, if you think '97 was bad," he said. "For me, it was the stone where I stepped to push forward because it helped me to become better. If that wouldn't have happened, God only knows where I would have ended up. But because that happened, it pushed me to be better in moments like that and in situations like that."
Rivera recalled facing dominant Cleveland teams of the 1990s, when the Indians had one of baseball's most feared lineups with Jim Thome, Manny Ramirez, Kenny Lofton, Omar Vizquel and Albert Belle.
"All those years it was a battle here," said Rivera, who announced on March 9 that this would be his final season. "It was never easy."
Rivera, though, often made it look so. He has 609 career saves, and has converted his last 17 save opportunities against the Indians since 2003.
Rivera recoiled playfully when Adams told him he's been drumming at Indians games since 1973.
"This is stress relief for me," he told Rivera. "And you've given me a lot of stress."
Rivera plans special goodbyes during the remainder of his final season. Last week in Detroit, he met with a longtime member of the grounds crew who worked at Tiger Stadium and Comerica Park. He also visited with other members of the Tigers' extended family, faces not as recognizable as his own but people he feels indebted to.
He told them Edgar Martinez was the toughest hitter he ever faced, and he grew up worshipping Pele, the Brazilian soccer legend.
At the end of the visit inside the Indians' press conference room, Rivera met with each of the employees, taking a moment to talk about their jobs, families, whatever they wanted to say.
Mary Forkapy has worked for the Indians since 1996, handling the team's payroll. She shook hands with Rivera, posed for a picture with his valuable right arm around her shoulder and accepted a baseball with the signature of the future Hall of Famer.
"It was very genuine, very heartfelt, very nice," she said of her one-on-one time with Rivera. "He told me I was a very important person."
So did this soften her hatred toward the Yankees?
"A little," she said.
As the group dwindled to just a few, Rivera shook hands with Adams, who tried to get the reliever to take a whack at his large drum.
"No, I can't," Rivera said. "That's your thing."
NOTES: With Wednesday night's game postponed by rain, the Indians will also delay a ceremony to honor Rivera. The Yankees were only scheduled to play four games in Cleveland, but will have to come back at a future date for the makeup. .... RHP Ivan Nova's turn will be skipped and Phil Hughes will start Thursday for New York. ... The rainout cooled off Robinson Cano, who went 7 for 10 with three doubles, three homers and seven RBIs in the first two games of the series. He has twice had consecutive three extra-base hit games. The only other Yankee to do that was Lou Gehrig in 1936.
I 'hate' Rivera for all hurt he has put on the Tribe, but he certainly has always been a player with a ton of class and one that I hope stays involved in MLB after his retirement.
Masterson is singlehandedly keeping the Tribe from sinking completely. Tonight was his 3rd excellent outing in a row. He has a streak of 19 scoreless innings in a row working.
Now if we could just get another starting pitcher doing something that resembles Major League work ..... we might start to look like a real team.
Indians have moved Ubaldo's start from today to Tuesday, although they and Ubaldo say he's not hurt. If they had someone else, I'd be inclined to move his next start to another team. But right now their options are Kluber, Huff, or Matsuzaka ... bleh. They'll eventually need to think of dealing Asdrubal, Perez, or both for a legit SP if our other starters don't start to produce. Blue Jays SS, Jose Reyes tore up his ankle last night - might be out 3 months - so they might want to talk about Asdrubal. I don't really want to trade him, but we do have Aviles, with Lindor coming soon from the minors.
Dice-K got hurt last night in his first start in Columbus. Carrasco realistically isn't an option with this suspension until September. That leaves your options as Kluber or Bauer. Luckily (hopefully), Kazmir should be back on the 20th for the next start from the 5th spot.
Forgot about Bauer ... duh. Love his arm, but you can't survive walking 2 guys per inning. He has to throw strikes. He's a possible option later in the season, but not right now, imo. I wish we had an organizational pitching wizard to work with him at Columbus - someone like Leo Mazzone. (I'm guessing we don't based on past performance by our AAA prospects.)
I would trade Asdrubal to the Blue Jays right now for 3 of there top pitching prospects like Sean Nolin LHP, Aaron Sanchez RHP, Roberto Osuna RHP, Marcus Stroman RHP, or Matt Smoral LHP, give me 3 of them and I'd be happy. I was gonna say J.A. Happ but he is 30.
Aviles can play SS everyday til Lindor is ready, which should be next season.
Hell if they will take Ubaldo I would be happy about that to.
Don't look now, but the Indians are back to 1/2 game out of 1st. lol
It's still early, but if we can get some pitching like the past couple of games, we'll be in solid shape. Unfortunately, we still have shaky starting pitchers at the other positions.
Reverse curse almost worked today - Myers pitched well, 2 runs in 6 innings. Konerko hit his 47th career HR vs the Indians today, with Dunn on base. Indians had a chance to go 3-0 vs former Cy Young winners; it was 1-0 Indians after 5, but we couldn't really solve Peavy today. Can't say I'm happy with Francona's high regard for Giambi, but we'll see. Jimenez goes Tuesday.
Listening to the game today, I was stunned when Tom Hamilton said Adam Dunn has 408 career HR's. I said out loud "what?". I have always thought of Dunn as a ham-n-egger, one-trick-pony, feast-or-famine doofus ... and here he is, 92 HR's from having a strong chance at the HOF. He's only 33 and projects @ 27 HR's a year. I knew he always clubbed the Indians, but never realized how consistent his power production was. It just goes to show you, youneverknow.
I hope when I wake up tomorrow, I click open the Internet, and the first thing I read is that Indians have DFA'd Ubaldo Jimenez. He is terrible, I was all for giving him a break but he has declined rapidly where I don't think he is a major league pitcher any more!
I went to MLB.com to see if they did staff ERA by inning, because Indians' starters seem to struggle a lot in the first inning. Turns out that while the staff era is 4.74, the starters ERA is 6.23 in the 1st inning. If you back the first inning out of the calculation, staff ERA is around 4.50. What's it mean? I don't know. Maybe it means our bullpen is way better than our starters. Maybe it means our opponents ease up after they get over on our starter. Maybe our starters warm up too long, or not enough, or just ineffectively. Maybe its too soon to tell. But the 1st inning has been a problem, says Capt Obvious.
The Indians HAVE TO get their starting pitching in working order. Aside from Masterson and MAYBE McAllister the rest of the starters are a train wreck waiting to happen.
Myers might be headed to DL. Too bad for him, but it might get Bauer up here sooner than expected, which is a good thing imo. Either that or get Carrasco back up from Columbus so he can serve his suspension and at least be available in 10 days or so, maybe less if he appeals.
Two things: Kluber went 4 scoreless in relief last night, so he may get first crack. But, if I'm the Indians, I call up Carrasco today. With the off-day on Thursday, the eight days would go by without needing a 5th starter and you'd be able to have Carrasco serve it out.
Carrasco in Columbus, by the way: 0-0, 0.00 ERA, 10 IP, 2 H, 1 BB, 12 K. He's ready for the majors. He needs to mature, but the stuff is there.
Since teams are always looking for catching. The way our two young catchers played. we should trade lou marson for a pitcher. We also have a back load of ss in the minors trade one to the yankees for a pitcher or sign roy oswalt.
I'm cautiously optimistic about Kazmir ... 2 ER in 5 innings, 4 K's last night ... hit 94 on the gun a few times. But we need more length out of him, 5 innings isn't enough - you'll burn up your bullpen. I still think we need to get Bauer and Carrasco up here developing, because I don't think this is the year we contend.
Bauer will be up on Wednesday, I'd guess. Kazmir looked better last night. He went 100 pitches, but it seemed to be a little more under control after the second inning.
Also, Marson to DL with shoulder inflammation. Gomes back up, plus Scott Barnes up for the day for the double-header.
The problem with corrasco is an 8 game suspension. With all double headers we have to play. maybe we call him up send down a position player. Then we burn 2 games in one day. Then we send him down on monday bring in another pitcher to start one game. This keeps our rotation in order. plus we slowly burn through corrascos suspension.
"In a rule established in the most recent collective bargaining agreement, clubs can have 26 players on the roster for day-night doubleheaders that occur at least two days after the original game is rained out."
Quote: Bauer will be up on Wednesday, I'd guess. Kazmir looked better last night. He went 100 pitches, but it seemed to be a little more under control after the second inning.
Also, Marson to DL with shoulder inflammation. Gomes back up, plus Scott Barnes up for the day for the double-header.
Marsden has to go, he couldn't hit .250 in A ball.
Quote: Bauer will be up on Wednesday, I'd guess. Kazmir looked better last night. He went 100 pitches, but it seemed to be a little more under control after the second inning.
Also, Marson to DL with shoulder inflammation. Gomes back up, plus Scott Barnes up for the day for the double-header.
Marsden has to go, he couldn't hit .250 in A ball.
I agree. Gomes is making a strong case for himself.
I'm happy with Reynolds, but is anyone else watching the April Hafner is having for the Yankees? 6 HR, 14 RBI, .305 Avg, 1.112 OPS. Its the best he has hit since 2006. Amazing when you consider how he seemed to spend half his at bats the last few years here trying to beat the infield shift by punching it through the left side. Anyway, I wish him well - hope he keeps it up until we play them.
in fact, they actually got a real-life starting caliber performance out of a pitcher yesterday. and, it wasn't Justin Masterson! Corey Kluber looked great.
(though Masterson also pitched in the early game and got knocked around, but let's forget that happened)
Quote: I'm happy with Reynolds, but is anyone else watching the April Hafner is having for the Yankees? 6 HR, 14 RBI, .305 Avg, 1.112 OPS. Its the best he has hit since 2006. Amazing when you consider how he seemed to spend half his at bats the last few years here trying to beat the infield shift by punching it through the left side. Anyway, I wish him well - hope he keeps it up until we play them.
I bet he's on the DL before the start of June. I have nothing against the guy, but I've seen this movie too many times.
and his ERA is still over 7, hopefully he can build on this good outing. Anyone see what his fastball was topping out at? Last time I saw him pitch he maxing out at 89.
He hit 95-94 on consecutive pitches at one point, but was consistently low 90s. I think I read that the gun at Progressive was messed up that one game where we all thought he was topping out at 85 or so. I'll be ready to be impressed when he pitches well 3 starts in a row, because this guy is a tease.
Anyhoo, we get Roy Halladay tonight and Cliff Lee tomorrow vs Philly - I'd be happy with a split in those two games.
I think Ubaldo has a better chance to recover than most (in that I think it's possible), but he has always owned the Royals. No matter how much he has struggled otherwise.
Two items from Cleveland in the summer of 1988, and you choose which one is less likely:
A UFO was sighted.
Five members of the sixth-place Indians would move on to manage big-league clubs during the 2013 season.
Yeah, that's a tough call, right? But here's a hint: As the Indians host the Phillies in an interleague series this week, those are not UFOs managing the two clubs.
Unless, of course, you really stretch the definition so it somehow casts a net over Charlie Manuel.
"They probably saw that I became a big-league manager and thought, 'Hell, if Charlie can do that, I can, too,' " cracks the Phillies' Manuel of the other four men comprising this summer's bizarre Cleveland connection.
You never know what's in store during a Midwestern summer.
A UFO really was sighted in Cleveland on July 18, 1988 -- at least, if you believe www.ufostalker.com.
But according to airtight proof from www.baseball-reference.com (sadly, there is no www.managerstalker.com), the '88 Indians actually did spawn five men managing this season: Manuel, Cleveland's hitting coach in 1988, and four players -- Black, current Indians manager Terry Francona, John Farrell (Red Sox) and Ron Washington (Rangers).
There appears to be neither rhyme nor reason as to why Cleveland, circa 1988, became the Cradle of Managers.
"If you'd have told me that a bunch of managers would have come from that team, all of us would have told you you're crazy," Francona says. "We were just trying to hang on.
"We were on a bad team, and we were all just trying to hang on. Me, Blackie and John Farrell used to hang out a lot and talk baseball. I just think it’s a coincidence. It just happened."
Doc Edwards' Indians that summer were a bumbling bunch that finished 78-84, sixth in the AL East. They were outscored by 65 runs.
And maybe one reason why their 16-4 start melted quickly was because, as pointed out by the trusty 1989 Elias Baseball Analyst, the '88 Indians had the strongest tendency in either league toward hitting fly balls. Yet they only finished eighth in the 14-team AL in homers.
Then, as now, Cleveland was a blue-collar city which prided itself on traditional standards. A billboard back in the day read, "Cleveland: The Home of Superman, Rock 'n' Roll and WMMS 100.7 FM." Today, WMMS is the "FM radio home for your Cleveland Indians."
Maybe, it was something in the air. The record-high temperature in the city, after all, was set on June 25, 1988 -- a smokin' 104 degrees.
Maybe, it was something in the Lake Erie water ... or the fertile Great Lakes soil.
"Or the midges, those bugs that come out every so often," Farrell chuckles.
Washington was a 36-year-old utility man hanging on to the twilight of a career he built through sheer determination and hard work.
Black, then 31, was a left-handed pitcher who joined the Indians on June 3, 1988, in a trade with the Royals.
Farrell, 25, was a right-handed pitcher in his first full season of what would be an eight-year career.
Francona, 29, a first baseman-outfielder, was better known in Cleveland as the son of former Indians star Tito Francona than on his own merit.
And Manuel was a longtime minor-league manager who was in his first season as the Indians' hitting coach.
"It's funny to look back at that list," says Bob DiBiasio, the Indians' public relations director in '88 and senior vice-president, public affairs today. "Nothing against Tito and Ron Washington, but you really saw it in Buddy and John Farrell.
"The incredible professionalism they had as two young guys. One thing about that group, I remember they hung out in the clubhouse after games talking ball.
"They weren't in a hurry to get home."
Together, under the tutelage of Edwards, while they were losing ballgames they were gaining their Hardball PhDs.
"Doc Edwards was a class act," Washington recalls. "He wasn't a big name, but he knew the game. And what he did was allow players to be who they were and to play.
"That's what I loved about Doc Edwards. He would never second-guess you. All he tried to do was help you be better."
Edwards became a manager following a brief five-year playing career with the Indians, Kansas City Athletics and New York Yankees. Turned out, 1988 was his only full season as a big-league manager. He replaced Pat Corrales in Cleveland midway through the 1987 season, and was replaced by John Hart midway through the 1989 season.
"Doc was a lot like Dave Garcia," says DiBiasio of another Indians manager (1980-1982). "Every day was a teaching day."
At home today in San Angelo, Texas, where he still manages an Independent League team at 76, Edwards swears he did not conduct early afternoon, pre-batting practice classes in Managing 101, or teach extra-credit How to Write Out a Lineup Card courses.
"You got lucky is what you did," he says over the telephone, sharp as ever, still tracking his former players. "You get some people with some good brains in their skull. ...
"I think you just sort of gravitate toward guys. You don't talk about it, but you feel it. You talk baseball, and they'll let you know who wants to talk baseball."
As DiBiasio notes, Black and Farrell became fast friends practically from the day Black arrived.
"I remember that he knew the game, talked the game, whether we were out to eat, on the bus, in the clubhouse," Black says of Farrell.
Says Farrell: "I do remember having conversations with Bud Black shagging balls during BP, 'Have you thought about what you're going to do after playing?' I don't know that there was a clear-cut answer.
"There always was the thought of staying in the game. And as careers evolve and opportunities present themselves, we're extremely fortunate to have [two] of 30 positions."
Though he was a first baseman-outfielder, Francona even back in those days had the uncanny knack of being able to relate to everybody.
"Sometimes you're on teams where the pitchers hang with the pitchers and the position players hang with the position players," Farrell says. "He was with everybody. He always interacted with everybody. Coaches, young players, old players, pitchers. He was always fun to be around and he always had a way.
"You could be laughing about something and then ask a question about the game, and his answers were always spot-on."
Farrell's first big-league staff job came under Francona in Boston, where he was the Red Sox pitching coach from 2007-2010. The two teamed to win the second World Series title of Francona's Red Sox tenure in '07.
Washington?
"I called him 'Sweets,' " Manuel says. "Because of how he played. He had a passion and love and desire. He took it real seriously. He had a lot of fun, and the players loved being around him. He had charisma."
You can still see all of that on display in Texas, where the Rangers players have developed a fierce loyalty toward Washington practically since general manager Jon Daniels hired him to manage before the 2007 season.
"My locker was next to Julio Franco," Washington says. "I talked lot of baseball with Julio. The one thing I wanted to do when my career was over was coach. I never wanted to be a manager. I wanted to be an infield instructor. I wanted to be a third-base coach. That’s what I wanted to be.
"Managing was something that happened upon me. I had really thought I reached pinnacle of my career when I was third-base coach in Oakland."
Instead, Washington soared higher, managing the Rangers into the most successful era in franchise history with World Series appearances in 2010 and '11.
The Indians in 1988 were not successful. Not even close, although the roster also included, among others, Franco, a young Joe Carter, Cory Snyder, Brook Jacoby, Mel Hall, Jay Bell and Willie Upshaw.
So they needed all of that fun, charisma and, yes, especially, ability to learn as they foundered at the bottom of the AL East.
"I remember John Farrell was a kid who came fast from A ball to Triple-A, and he got a left-handed hitter 0 and 2 and wanted to come in on him but left the ball out," Edwards says.
So. ...
"What were you thinking there?" the manager asked the pitcher.
"I wanted to come in, but I was trying to make sure I didn't hit him," Farrell answered.
"Now you're telling me you've got to stay away from the hitter," Edwards explained. "You can't worry, because if you do, you'll never master that.
“So the next time a lefty came up he hit the guy. He looked at me for my reaction in the dugout, and I took my cap off and tipped it to him.
"He was a tremendous competitor."
There are other memories from that season long ago, but none tops Washington's of old, legendary Municipal Stadium -- the giant, cavernous home to both the Indians and Browns that preceded modern Progressive Field.
"I remember two times a year, we sold that sucker out because of Marathon Oil," Washington says. "Two times a year, they bought it out and we'd have 72,000.
"One night, I made an error. And a fan made up a sign just that quick: 'To err is human, but to error is Ron Washington.' "
He roars at the memory.
"It sure didn't take him long to make a sign," he says, still marveling all these years later.
Fact is, nobody could know at the time that Cleveland was running a Manager Mill in that monstrous ballpark.
"Maybe we got that from, as Oil Can Boyd once said, that place on the ocean," Edwards says.
Good times. Good memories. Maybe things were more rickety and less comfortable then. But plant a few seeds, you never know what will grow. Or where.
Aside from that club producing 17 percent of today's managers, the left side of the '88 Indians' infield -- Jacoby (Reds) and Bell (Pirates) -- currently are major-league hitting coaches, and utility man Dave Clark is Houston’s first-base coach.
Funny thing is, back then, given his presence and leadership, Bell may have been the one voted Most Likely to Become a Manager. Maybe, he still will be.
The five managers from that '88 Indians club have combined to lead teams into six different World Series (Francona, Manuel and Washington two each), with three titles (Francona (2), Manuel (1)). Alas, none of them has been in a Cleveland uniform.
"I don't know," Farrell says. "Maybe it was just a place in time we ended up together.
"It wasn't like we were saying, 'Hey, in 20 years we're all going to be managing at the same time.' There was no way you could predict that.
"It goes back to personalities and wanting to stay in the game. Have a passion for it and give back. It's almost like you're passing on what others gave to you."
Maybe a more believable story would be that Clevelanders would have spotted five UFOs flying overhead on a 1988 summer's night before five members of that Indians club would become managers in 2013.
But, wow. Look at how things turned out.
"I've always said in this game you need people to care about you for you to have an opportunity to make something for yourself," Washington says. "And I had a lot of people who cared about me. I just try to pass that passion of people who cared about me on to others."
Says Manuel: "I pull for those guys. Every one of them."
The Indians are tied for the league lead in homers (Yankees the other). And they're first in all of baseball in slugging. Too bad our pitching staff is in the bottom 3rd.
The Indians are tied for the league lead in homers (Yankees the other). And they're first in all of baseball in slugging. Too bad our pitching staff is in the bottom 3rd.
Would love to see a deal for an arm. I think bringing in one guy could maybe help put the other pitchers in their place.
4-1 vs former CYA winners in 2013 (beat Dickey, Price, Halladay, and Lee - lost to Peavy). Bauer will be ready as soon as he can throw his fastball for strikes consistently. You can see a real major league starting rotation beginning to form ... Masterson, McAlister, Bauer, Carrasco ... Jimenez?
Man ... no Michael Borne, and no Nick Swisher, and they are still beating the cover off the ball. I love the depth this team has this year. Last year, even if we had signed Nick Swisher, if he got hurt we would be starting "Scrub 1" or "Scrub 2". This year we have talented guys to plug into holes when we have an injury or 2.
Man it's nice to have a little money to spend for once.
Kazmir is looking good today, his fastball is up at 93, 94. Hope he is back cause that will really help our rotation, with Jimenez our biggest concern.
Right now, its a staff with one #3 starter (Masterson) and four # 5's - imo. We'll see how it developes. There's reason to be optimistic, but maybe not for this year. As I type this, Kazmir just completed his 6th inning, Good Guys lead 4-2.
Quote: Right now, its a staff with one #3 starter (Masterson) and four # 5's - imo. We'll see how it developes. There's reason to be optimistic, but maybe not for this year. As I type this, Kazmir just completed his 6th inning, Good Guys lead 4-2.
I think Zach and Kazmir are both SP3's (at least for now - I don't trust Kazmir to last the full year). Really hope that Bauer can figure out the walks because he can be lethal if he ever does.
i'm not worried about a 1 or 2 spot change in the lineup. it's been proven to not affect very much.
my main concern is avoiding situations where guys like Giambi bat behind our best hitter (Santana), but he came through a couple nights ago when they walked Carlos.
Regardless, those are 9 true hitters and we still have Raburn, Giambi, etc. who have hit well when given the opportunity (Zeke in Columbus did as well). Been a fun year so far.
Not sure about being a rising star just yet but he should replace Marson as the backup. Defensively, he does a decent job, and has a good arm. I dont think he is as good defensively as Marson but does have the better bat. I like his swing. He just needs to see more at-bats.
Marson has only thrown out 11 of the last 82 base-stealers against him. I don't know what is wrong (pitchers? something else?), but he hasn't been Laser Lou since 2011.
funny enough, his OBP has risen quite a bit since then though.
Understood. But when I say defensively I'm not solely talking about throwing out players. His performance behind the plate is also something I take into consideration. I also think its one of the main reasons he's been able to keep a backup job.
Quote: Understood. But when I say defensively I'm not solely talking about throwing out players. His performance behind the plate is also something I take into consideration. I also think its one of the main reasons he's been able to keep a backup job.
fangraphs had an article this past offseason that demonstrated that Indians catchers (both Santana & Marson) were among the worst at framing pitchers in MLB. in that, Cleveland pitchers got less strike calls out of the strike zone than any other MLB team regardless of catcher (Lou or Carlos)
And I cannot believe they didn't reverse that home run. Looked to me like it hit off of the 4th bar of the railing, well above the padding. It's nice to be on the good side of a bad call for once though.
Dan LeBetard brought up a good point on Mike&Mike, he questioned what replays the umps were shown. If it was just the standard regular speed angle from home plate, I could watch that 15 times and not know it hit the railing. Once they slow it down and zoom in, it's becomes easy.
Maybe that excuses the umps, assuming that's the case, but it then becomes an indictment on the replay system if that slowed down zoom in wasn't available to them.
For the life of me I can't figure out why we need the umps leave the field to watch the replay. My wife could determine the ball hit the railing in 15 seconds. Why not have a war room like the NHL? MLB could have a few people watching the games and be ready to decide on replays like this. I know Bud would question how the technology would work, the startup costs and they'd need time to develop the procedures.....please, it's a room with 15 TVs, an internet connection and a few hardline phones. Such a joke.
But ya Sperg, we deserve to get a non-call every once in a while.
The interwebs are pushing for MLB to start the game in the 9th, tied, with two outs and Perez on the mound before today's nooner starts. Even if the call would have been against the Indians, I would say no. It was last night, the game is over, move on. This is golf where a guy sitting on the couch can call in and change a players scorecard 5 hours after they signed it. Just focus on getting the call right at the time (with a better replay system).
Quote: And I cannot believe they didn't reverse that home run. Looked to me like it hit off of the 4th bar of the railing, well above the padding. It's nice to be on the good side of a bad call for once though.
+1 Seems like we rarely get these kinds of breaks. On the other hand, that one looked pretty obvious to me. I would have given the A's skipper a pass if he'd gone all Sweet Lou on that umpire (obviously, that's not his style). It's been a while since we've seen a base-tossin', hat/dirt-kickin' tirade at a ballgame. I kinda miss Lou.
I bet if it were the Yankees or Red Sox who got away with it, they wouldn't be calling for a restart, just saying.
You can totally tell that it hit the railing just by the way it bounced back into play, and how it totally didn't go how the outfielders thought it would. MLB'ers with the exception of Shin Soo Choo know those bounces and it's rare when they aren't in near perfect position.
national media getting all rankled over something that wouldn't even have had the possibility of being corrected just a couple years ago (w/o replay). yes, they should have gotten it right. no, they didn't. but, it's baseball, things go your way sometimes and not your way others. it was a terrible blown call in our favor, so let's just pass go and collect our $200.
as for those (nat'l media) suggesting that MLB 'corrects' the call and play starts from that spot, that is just absolutely ludicrous. with such a precedent, does that mean a blown call on the 1st batter needs to have the whole game replayed? a HR in the 1st inning could have just as much effect (or more) on a game than a HR in the 9th. that's just silly talk.
Hasn't the opinion of every sports league been that once a game is complete, it is complete ..... and that the human element is as much a part of the game as anything else?
Mistakes happens. We happened to benefit this time. (for once!) Boo hoo national media types. Go cry in your cereal in private, not on the air.
We had lost something like 8 in a row to the A's coming into this series ..... and now we can go for the sweep of them in a 4 game series this afternoon! Bring on the brooms!
This seems about the right time for the Tribe's May meltdown. A's come out ticked, put up a game of something like 14-2 on the Tribe and it gets in their head like that Boston game a year or two ago. Tribe loses 25 of their next 28 and isn't heard from again this year.
Quote: I bet if it were the Yankees or Red Sox who got away with it, they wouldn't be calling for a restart, just saying.
100%.
More and more listening to the media heads puff out their chests on this, i am convinced that if this were turned around none of this outcry would be happening (except by us). We would now have "The Railing", a weeks worth of "The" clips shown 3 times an hour, and constant cries to just 'get over it'.
Quote: This seems about the right time for the Tribe's May meltdown. A's come out ticked, put up a game of something like 14-2 on the Tribe and it gets in their head like that Boston game a year or two ago. Tribe loses 25 of their next 28 and isn't heard from again this year.
Am I a Cleveland sports fan, or what?
much, much too early. that usually happens right around Memorial Day. too many fans are discounting the past 10 games still. today honestly doesn't matter, we'll go and win the weekend series with Detroit to convince most fans that this team may have something real. then, go and do okay until that game comes right before the end of May and THEN comes our tailspin.
Quote: Chris Antonetti was on with Rizzo the other day and said that Reynolds wants to test free agency at the end of the year.
That's fine. It will keep him pushing the whole year.
Some will argue the Indians will get shafted at the end, but they took the risk and might get a great year out of it. If he was hitting .210 with 2 homers most would be bashing the Indians for signing a bust. Seems like they can't win.
yeah, I don't understand how the Indians could be considered to get shafted when they are getting this production out of a cheap contract.
Reynolds + Kazmir + Raburn (lesser extent with Aviles, Giambi) have helped restore some of my faith in Antonetti/Shapiro finding those hidden gems in FA. Really, only Myers has been a bad sign from last offseason (and it was horrific from the day they did it).
With the new CBA rules, wouldn't we get 1st round compensation if someone signs Reynolds next year? That could lessen the competition we would face for his services.
Quote: With the new CBA rules, wouldn't we get 1st round compensation if someone signs Reynolds next year? That could lessen the competition we would face for his services.
I don't think 1yr contracts qualify (why some were suggesting that Lohse might sign a 1yr deal to hit true FA next offseason), but I cannot find anything definitive on who qualifies for the compensation and who does not.
OK, here's what I found ..... and we would have to offer him a contract worth the average of this year's top 125 salaries. (The amount was $13.3 million this year)
It seems as though salaries may have dropped somewhat with some restricted movements by players. That may make the qualifying offers drop as well.
Under the terms of the new Collective Bargaining Agreement, the structure has changed. The old Type A and Type B designations are gone. When a player reaches free agency, his former team may make him what is known as a qualifying offer, worth the average amount of the previous season's top 125 salaries -- $13.3 million this offseason.
If the player accepts the offer, again he is considered to be signed to a contract for the next season. If he declines, the team that signs him gives up a Draft pick, while the team losing the player gains one -- though not the same pick.
The signing team gives up a first-round selection, unless it possesses one of the first 10 selections. In that case, the team gives up its next selection after that. The team losing the player, meanwhile, gains a sandwich pick at the end of the first round. This applies as long as the player signs before the start of the next Draft.
"We were balancing losing that Draft pick for a middle reliever in the past if he qualified in the Elias rankings," Braves general manager Frank Wren said on MLB.com's Hot Stove show. "So I think the system has whittled down that pool to a more workable number. So I think that's a positive. If you're willing to offer somebody $13.3 million for one year, you think they're a formidable player."
As Wren noted, the new system has reduced the number of players who end up subject to compensation. Players who might make much less than $13.3 million were often offered arbitration. Last winter, 37 players (13 Type A and 24 Type B) were offered arbitration. The year before, it was 35 (14 Type A and 21 Type B).
By comparison, nine players received qualifying offers this winter: Bourn, Josh Hamilton, Hiroki Kuroda, Adam LaRoche, Lohse, David Ortiz, Soriano, Nick Swisher and B.J. Upton. Lohse remains unsigned. Kuroda, LaRoche and Ortiz re-signed with their 2012 teams, while Bourn, Hamilton, Soriano, Swisher and Upton changed teams. Swisher and Bourn both agreed to deals with the Indians, who had a protected first-round pick. The signings will cost Cleveland its next two picks.
Additionally, as of this year, a player traded during the season before he reaches free agency cannot receive a qualifying offer. A team can no longer trade for a player during a season and be compensated with a Draft pick if he signs with another team.
The article then goes on about changes to the draft.
Quote: 9-0 Tribe. Reynolds did it again. The ball will land sometime next week.
Is is too early to start thinking about offering this guy a couple more years?
Hopefully his agent isn't Scott Boras.
I said the same thing a few weeks ago...after one of his bombs, I said to my dad, he's playing himself into a big contract that we probably can't afford next year. Was excited that we signed him....great pick up...hate to see that he might be just a rental. On a positive note....enjoy what the guys are doing so far this year.
Also I do enjoy the personalities they picked up...Swishers huge grin and enjoying the moment attitude, Reynolds more of a quiet actions speak, and Francona's experience and loose attitude. I think are doing wonders for the team
Yeah, I have to agree with that. Fans complained that Dolan was cheap, and wouldn;t spend money. Well, they spent a boatload this year, and have an exciting team, with some legitimate star players. I don't get what the hell the fans are waiting for. This is a good team, and exactly what the fans have been clamoring for.
Quote: Yeah, I have to agree with that. Fans complained that Dolan was cheap, and wouldn;t spend money. Well, they spent a boatload this year, and have an exciting team, with some legitimate star players. I don't get what the hell the fans are waiting for. This is a good team, and exactly what the fans have been clamoring for.
This really PO's me.
We can fill Quicken Loans to see a team that couldn't sniff playin' defense under Scott if their lives depended on it, yet we can't get more than 10,000 to see what happens to be a team that has serious promise this year.
Yeah I know all about the people that can't afford it anymore, but I guarandamnteeya there's 35,000 that CAN.
I'll be there all summer long from Southern Ohio for 3 game sets.
It won't be long till Perez starts shootin' his mouth off yet again. And he's RIGHT.
I can't speak for anyone, but maybe the Dolans have already done their damage?
I really can't tell you. I know that my family all loves the Tribe, they watch all the games, and a lot of them do attend the games in person.
The Dolans did spend this year, about 18 million bucks more than last season. Factoring in the expiring contracts of guys like Hafner and Sizemore, they actually spent quite a bit in the offseason.
I think people realize that it's still entirely possible that they blow this team up at any point, and that's where the fans have probably had enough. You can argue all day about if it's the right thing to do, but a lot of these fans don't care.
When this team is putting a major league product on the field, and not stiffs like Jamey Carroll, and Casey Kotchman, and Shelley Duncan I feel like I can go and support them. I am hoping to attend a game when I get into town.
The Indians don't get the benefit of the doubt like the Browns do, right or wrong.
The Browns are treated like a special needs kid because they never got off on the right foot when the franchise was reborn in '99. That and the NFL is just a far better product.
If the Tribe keeps playing like this, attendance will pick up. Kids aren't even out of school yet. If they remain in contention beyond the All-Star break, Progressive Field will be rocking again. Cleveland is a football town, but folks will turn out for a winner.
I feel much differently about the Dolans this year. Nobody can say they haven't made a solid effort to put a quality team together this season. Plus, they've lowered concession prices again. I think they deserve our support. We generally get out to 4-5 games a season. I'm hoping to add at least a couple more (particularly if we're contending toward the end of the regular season). I dropped my Browns season tickets this year, so I'll have more discretionary money to spread around.
If the fans don't start turning out, though.then the Dolan's will have no choice but to cut payroll and dump players. Noway will they put tons of money that they aren't making into the team. If it drags on far enough, the team will move. It will have to. No teams can financially handle contending, with the costs involved, and having the attendance levels the Indians have.
I think that the Dolans are committed to this year, but next? If we don't see butts in the bleachers, then why should they spend money on the team? This might be the most exciting Indians team I have seen in a decade. If the pitching develops/holds together, this team could be in it for the long haul. I like this team a lot. I just wish I was able to go to games.
For the last 4 years the Indians have averaged 70 wins, and on average, finished 21 games behind in the AL Central. Any talk of moving is way premature. You think maybe we could contend for more than a few days before we start worrying about attendance? This town sold out 455 games in a row not that long ago, so I have no doubt they'll come out to support a better than putrid team. Things aren't going to change over night, though. It took a few years for the current level of indifference toward the Indians to set in.
Quote: If the fans don't start turning out, though.then the Dolan's will have no choice but to cut payroll and dump players. Noway will they put tons of money that they aren't making into the team. If it drags on far enough, the team will move. It will have to. No teams can financially handle contending, with the costs involved, and having the attendance levels the Indians have.
I think that the Dolans are committed to this year, but next? If we don't see butts in the bleachers, then why should they spend money on the team? This might be the most exciting Indians team I have seen in a decade. If the pitching develops/holds together, this team could be in it for the long haul. I like this team a lot. I just wish I was able to go to games.
Financially, the Indians are fine, they are netting quite the profit. Forbes had them as number one in profit margin.
Attendance money is great, but don't forget they are still getting money from other resources.
Exactly. If the teams starts to contend again on a regular basis, the attendance will be there. If they continue to suck year-in-and-year-out, the Dolans will still enjoy a tidy little profit from all the other income streams they receive.
do you really think that the Indians make the most profit? or is it just that teams like the Yankees hide alot of their profits in their other enterprises YES! network, etc.
now, that being said, I do agree that the Indians are not losing money. however, if there are greater profits to be made elsewhere, then I wouldn't think it out of the realm for them to eventually move.
Maybe they aren't making the most money, but those articles at the very least say the Tribe is doing fine, and probably better than a lot of other franchises.
For the record, I do think attendance should be better this year. I don't want or expect sellouts every night. I wish they could sniff the 30k mark. I think baseball is a sport where if a family, or a group of buddies decide on a whim to head down to the ball yard for a game, they should be able to do so. That was never the case during the 90's run. Season was sold out well before opening day. I think when you get good walk-up crowds, those give you the best atmosphere. Those are people who really wanted to go to the game that day, versus people who bought tickets in advance and possibly were only going because they paid in advance.
I can't tell people how and where to spend their money. It just seems weird because everyone is talking Tribe, especially with how good they have been the last 2 weeks, and yet the attendance is bad.
I wouldn't be surprised if the Yankees truly weren't close to the top of profit margin. The Yes Network basically pays for their ridiculous payroll. They have to revenue share with other teams. They can't sell out their ridiculously priced luxury seats.
I'm sure the Steinbrenner's are doing ok, but I think it's a bad assumption to think they are destroying everyone else in profit simply because they're the Yankees.
Quote: We can fill Quicken Loans to see a team that couldn't sniff playin' defense under Scott if their lives depended on it, yet we can't get more than 10,000 to see what happens to be a team that has serious promise this year.
The Cavs have been in the bottom third in attendance the past two seasons, averaging just over 16k per game. That's not exactly "filling" a 20.5k-seat arena.
Its going to take more than a month of barely over .500 baseball to get people to start packing the ballpark. Might not happen at all this season. The Indians have to prove that they can be in contention when late August and early September roll around.
Quote: I wouldn't be surprised if the Yankees truly weren't close to the top of profit margin. The Yes Network basically pays for their ridiculous payroll. They have to revenue share with other teams. They can't sell out their ridiculously priced luxury seats.
I'm sure the Steinbrenner's are doing ok, but I think it's a bad assumption to think they are destroying everyone else in profit simply because they're the Yankees.
that's the point though. they keep the $$$ in the Yes! Network to make it look like they are not making as much through the team. there are less than 10 teams that could even conceivably keep pace with revenues and, as you noted, the payroll is well-covered (Washington, Boston, LA, Anaheim, SF, Houston --if they get good again--, Chicago Cubs&WhiteSox).
They put 16,000 butts in a possible 20,500 seats every game on average ........ that's almost 80% capacity. That's for a team that hasn't even sniffed contender status at any phase of any of the past 3 seasons. They have been miles away from the playoffs, even with the crazy playoff structure in the NBA.
Progressive Field has a seating capacity of roughly 43,000. The team is exciting, and on a stretch where they have won 10 of 11 games. They are beating the crap out of the baseball, and have scored at least 6 runs in 8 out of their last 11 games. They are mashing HR at an amazing rate. They are 1 game behind the team generally though to be the best in baseball.
We are averaging 14,103 per game, This is dead last in MLB by a mile. The 29th ranked team, the Royals, is averaging 18,497. The 15th ranked team, Atlanta, averages over 29,000 per game.
It is rather embarrassing that the Indians have had so little support.
It's still bottom-third attendance (the worst teams are still filling to 70% capacity), and a team with arguably the most exciting young player in the league. It's also during the bad weather months, when there is nothing to do.
Yeah, they're on a hot streak. They also started off miserably, were playing games in 40-degree weather, got pummeled by the Yankees and swept by Boston, and have a young, questionable pitching staff who's every bit as likely to get knocked around for a half-dozen runs as they are to give you quality starts. Oh, and they have the seventh-best record in the AL. I don't think it's unfair to ask for a team that's been historically bad since 2007 to show us something for more than two weeks before we start flocking to the ballpark in droves every night.
I'm probably blowing this way out of proportion, but this weekend series has a playoff feel/vibe for me. For all the hype the Indians have been getting in the past two or so weeks, this three game set will really tell us what we got....we are going up against some tough pitchers at there place with some serious momentum.
I'm probably blowing this way out of proportion, but this weekend series has a playoff feel/vibe for me. For all the hype the Indians have been getting in the past two or so weeks, this three game set will really tell us what we got....we are going up against some tough pitchers at there place with some serious momentum.
Welcome back Bourne!
Go Tribe!
considering we beat Verlander at his peak in late July to get within spitting distance of the Tigers in late July last year, yes a bit out of proportion.
I'm probably blowing this way out of proportion, but this weekend series has a playoff feel/vibe for me. For all the hype the Indians have been getting in the past two or so weeks, this three game set will really tell us what we got....we are going up against some tough pitchers at there place with some serious momentum.
Welcome back Bourne!
Go Tribe!
considering we beat Verlander at his peak in late July to get within spitting distance of the Tigers in late July last year, yes a bit out of proportion.
however, I love the optimism!
I know, I know. I'm going a little overboard. It's just that I've been waiting for this series all week....and I don't like the Tigers.
Either way, come Monday, if we win 2 of 3, I'll be geeked.
They put 16,000 butts in a possible 20,500 seats every game on average ........ that's almost 80% capacity. That's for a team that hasn't even sniffed contender status at any phase of any of the past 3 seasons. They have been miles away from the playoffs, even with the crazy playoff structure in the NBA.
Their home attendance was 78% capacity this season. 77.5% the season before.
Those are horrible attendance numbers for an NBA team.
They put 16,000 butts in a possible 20,500 seats every game on average ........ that's almost 80% capacity. That's for a team that hasn't even sniffed contender status at any phase of any of the past 3 seasons. They have been miles away from the playoffs, even with the crazy playoff structure in the NBA.
Their home attendance was 78% capacity this season. 77.5% the season before.
Those are horrible attendance numbers for an NBA team.
not good, but not horrible. we are ranked 29th in percentage, but the entire bottom third in the NBA is grouped together very closely (except the Pistons who are a Tribe-like drop down from everyone else).
I have always been a San Francisco Giants fan, since the days of Mays, McCovey and Marichal ... but I always watch the Indians and I have to say they are a great watch this year, I would love to see S.F. and the Indians come October ... JMHO
Whewww, that one was a heart stopper. Sometimes I think Perez just likes to make it dramatic or something, seriously. And of course the top of the lineup had to turn over with Cabrera! I love it, great win tribe and great pitching Ubaldo!
Quote: Whewww, that one was a heart stopper. Sometimes I think Perez just likes to make it dramatic or something, seriously. And of course the top of the lineup had to turn over with Cabrera! I love it, great win tribe and great pitching Ubaldo!
Hat tip to Ubaldo for his 3rd straight solid outing. Indians now 4-1 vs former Cy Young winners. Mcallister goes against Porcello today in the rubber match. It seems to me we've hit him pretty hard in the past. There's a chance we come home tied for first.
Wow. What an ending. Even if the Tribe lost today's game, that was still one of the best three-game sets I've seen in awhile. We pretty much played toe-to-toe with the team everyone expects to win the division. I know it's early but this series has to be a motivator for the team.
On to the double header tomorrow....anyone hear what happened to CP?
The overall effort and output from the team recently has been outstanding. You can't really ask for much more. Guys are stepping up all the time and contributing for RBI's when there are 2 outs and when the tribe needs it most. Especially Reynolds, now that guy has been a gamer!!!
The nice thing about the pitching though (still a little too early to say for certain) is Ubaldo looking a hell of a lot better and Kazmir appearing to get stronger with his velocity up. If those guys really start nailing things down and getting back to their old forms who knows what could happen.
Just wanna say I was wrong about signing swisher, was against it when it happened, thought he was a loud mouth show off, but I was so wrong, he gives this team an energey we've long needed he keeps the guys lose in the dugout and is real. Thank god I was wrong......GO TRIBE
PS we need to sign Reynolds to a 2-3 year deal...LOL..Hope Im right about this..
I agree about Reynolds, even though we got burned by the Hafner signing. I read somewhere - maybe here - that Reynolds wants to test free agency after this season, so he'll probably be somewhere else next year.
Quote: Wow. What an ending. Even if the Tribe lost today's game, that was still one of the best three-game sets I've seen in awhile. We pretty much played toe-to-toe with the team everyone expects to win the division. I know it's early but this series has to be a motivator for the team.
On to the double header tomorrow....anyone hear what happened to CP?
I have seen columns with the Tigers as the best team in baseball ...... so we just took 2 out of 3 from the best, in their home park. Gotta love that.
Perez probably got the day off today so he can be ready for tomorrow's double header against the Yankees.
AWESOME series especially after the way it started out on Friday.
I thought Tito stole today's game. Down in the 9th, found a way to tie it, and eventually get a lead, then gambled with not putting Perez out there (I understand he said his arm didn't feel right, but with a doubleheader looming) and came out with the win.
but the team still came through in the end.
) ? He should be down to 3 more games right? Or not
well maybe Gomes ??
)
