This is what I posted in the browns vs steelers thread the other day.

This isn't Washington's pass defense the browns are going up against. I fully expect to see watson turn the ball over 2 to 3 times. Steelers defense is a different animal with watt back. They are 1-6 without him. 7-2 with him

Browns-13
Steelers -27

Like I have been saying watson is overrated and can't read a defense to save his life. Score prediction was almost dead on..

Only the browns would lose thuer starting left tackle for next season in the last 35 seconds of a loss in the final game.

Although i think watson is a slime ball i found it ironic and extremely hypocritical that steelers fans bood watson when he first came onto the field.

Browns Knocked the stillers OUT OF THE PLAYOFFs
With the win earlier in the year.

Without intercepta> Watson, and with , ho hum Jacoby Brisset.

Fire everyone

I'm off the KS bandwagon - he can join Woods on the unemployment line.

I’m too upset to make some sensible comments. Berry Stefanski Woods. I’m so disappointed.

I guess it's time to cheer for Buffalo now. At least the Steelers get the 1st pick in round 2 of the draft thanks to the Bears losing today, with the Chase Claypool trade. I guess it was too much to ask for the Steelers to make the playoffs this year but there is hope for the future. Same with the Browns - I think both teams will be good next season.

If FG kicker didn't make the kick in game #I and then the team would be 6 and II?
Would Kevin Stefanski keep his job?

Is K, really better than former Browns coach Pettine?

seven and ten, and then they can't protect anybody with the OL, in the final half of the year. Jed Wills got hurt. What were they doing.

The Steelers did not deserve to make the playoffs. The football gods got something right today.

First pick in the second round... even the Bears aren't dumb enough to trade a 1st round pick for a head-case.

Edit: I see you corrected your post... carry on.

I agree - they should have taken care of business earlier this season.

Well, not that I'm proud of it but back in August I predicted 6-8 wins and last place in the division. Perfect!

It was yet another wonderful season of Browns football (sighs)........

Sure was and don't you get the feeling that 1 year from now it will be exactly the same; or worse!! 56 years and counting: no Super Bowl.....

The WORST play calling by far all year. Play calling was 100% predictable in so much as I was telling my parents the plays that would be called with 75% accuracy. Stefanski keeping his starting left tackle in the final minute of a meaningless game and now a potential ACL injury.

I honestly do not know how posters like Vers can continue to pat Stefanski on the back. It really is mind bogging and comical.

Not to toot my own horn, but what the hell - I guessed right on the money (7 & 10):

https://www.dawgtalkers.net/ubbthre...oss-record-prediction-thread#Post1966642

I wish i could feel some sort of emotion, but, I feel so detached from this team over the past few years. I don't need the stress in my life to get worked up about an organization that will most likely never right the ship in my lifetime. I feel bad for Chubb, wasting his prime

j/c...

- Browns are back in their happy place with double-digit losses and a 4th place finish in the AFCN. Everyone can enjoy their vacations now.

- A drubbing by the Steelers to end the season is a familiar refrain.

- The final play was an absolutely fitting ending to lay the 2022 season to rest.

- Offense was an absolute mess to watch. Looked like a chaotic fire drill. Watson looked like George Costanza during the fire at the kids birthday party.

- Another year of Chubb, Garrett and Bitonio wasted.

- Njoku played hard to the end.

- I'm sure there were some good plays. Yawn.

- This team is a long way from any serious Super Bowl contention.

- Game ball: Nick Chubb on another terrific season and for never taking a rest day during the week in practice (that I recall seeing).

- As is typical, I fully expect the off-season to be much more eventful than the actual season. Should be fun!

Would anyone care to start a way to early prediction thread for next season? Shouldn't be too hard to figure out

It will hopefully be a little bit better. I am hoping for 9 & 8. (Or is that being too optimistic? lol)

first things that need to happen, Depo, berry and the entire coaching staff dismissed. Get football guys in here and get rid of analytics as the end all. It should be a data point and nothing more and shouldn't override common sense. Second, I'm trying to dump Garrett, Ward, and Conklin contracts somewhere..none of them deserve it. 3rd if none of the first things are done, Haslams need to sell the team. They are the worst owners in sports. Atleast the cheap dolans know how to build a staff that competes without having to pay out like the yankees.. That should be our mentality here.. Not giving a guy 100 million to play 7 games and have a pff score in the 40s

I think this might be my last post in awhile, maybe forever.

The Browns hopes rest on a bottom five head coach (does everyone realize the Browns were never in the game today against a rookie Qb and a good but unspectacular defense) and a QB who's only difference between he and the last guy is that when they both get in trouble because they can't read defenses post snap, he's at least athletic enough to sometimes elude the sack. You have a really weak leadership group and a collection of brain trust that prioritizes their science experiment over winning. I think I've reached my fill.

Take care everyone. We all deserve better for the amount of time and emotion we put into this. I just don't think we'll be rewarded anytime soon. The culture and leadership is so broken I just don't know that it is reversible.

The schedule next year doesn't look very difficult, at least looking at all the teams right now.

Starting tomorrow....Black Monday! KS and JW should be on the unemployment line...

This is really the worst part. It gets to be autumn, fall weather, a nice crisp in the air. Good for long walks and apple cider. Nice things. It's tempting to not even watch when the other side of the coin is:

Heartbreak
Dashed hopes
High blood pressure
Eternal disappointment

I looked up the record for the Browns this year.
No Mayfield, and no time the Browns finished with 33 or more points on the day games.

Now. Mayfield, had about five to 8 actual games, not seventeen like the Browns team,
and
Mayfields' teams did score Fifty One points on the day in One Game by the Rams. 33+
One time, to no times.

...
s
I think, If the Browns could switch division places, with the Colts, and play Jax, and Hou, and Tenn. then they might make the Playoffs more often, but not a lot more often.

.....s
How does Watson compare to Vinny Testaverde's games he played for the Browns in ninety four.

How does Watson compare to Couch in Couch's 3rd year.

I'd anticipate Joe Woods being sacrificed. Stefanski will be back. He has a press conference scheduled with Berry tomorrow.

Chubb had 6 more carries than the Steelers had sacks.

Hopefully they will announce they are both leaving the Organization.

-Eternal disappointment?!? lol!!!!! You got that right! 'Many a truth is said in jest.'

At least he'll be over it before the Conference Championships.

#aimhigh

I wonder if Stefanski will utter the same robotic answers
To the media next year

1. They are a really well coached football team ( even though the opponent
Is 2 and 9)

2. We have to be ready to play 60 Mins of football

3. As you know Mary Kay we keep those things in-house

4. I Have to coach better

5. You know Tony we will have to look at the game film

6. Iam laser focused on next weeks game vs the Ravens

I've never heard a HC so robotic in his answers

Name the play calls. Let me guess......you said: "Pass." Brilliant!

Protection of Watson was putrid... and he made some horrible throws... made some good moves with his feet... secondary got tore up... refs were awful on both sides of the ball.... glad this season is done... hope we're better next year..

Yeah, i am glad we are done too. We need a total reset

If you give DW the protection Baker had 2 years ago he should be more productive.

...this is the reason why we need two threads

I didn't get to see it, b/c I was playin GI Joe.

That game today and for that matter, the entire season, and the off season prior was a mess and very disappointing.

I don't know who's staying and who's going, but we were looking like we were on a roll in 2020. Then everything went to hell in a hand basket.

I'm tired...

I'll post it tomorrow, Scott.

It was a putrid game all around. That pretty much sums it up. The season went how I expected it to and I'm glad we can move on from it now. Expectations for next season are playoffs or bust with Stefanski now in the hot seat for a year after getting a pass this season. If the Browns aren't a playoff team next year, I will have seen enough of Stefanski and the current front office members. Enough time has been allowed to get the right players in place for the coaching staff to achieve its visions. Also, Watson better be a world beater next year. Falling back on rust as the reason for poor play (which was fair this season) is no longer an option. Fingers are crossed that this team performs from this point forward because there are no more excuses to lean on.

Well said

Where was the qb that wasn't going to take as many sacks since he's so mobile, and where was the qb that would limit int's?

smh.

Of course I was calling a pass or run. With never seeing the Browns playbook, I cannot effectively call the exact play name. If a nobody like me can effectively predict if the play is going to be a pass or a run play and on what down it's going to be, what do you think a real NFL coordinator can predict coming?

Let me guess, in your mind Stefanski wasn't outcoached in pretty much all aspects of the game. Chubb's 12 perfectly timed carries were more than enough. Chubb, once again on the sidelines in important to go situations, especially on 3rd down, were a sign of brilliance. Chubb actually getting a first down on a 3rd down he was actually in, clearly was a mistake.

This marks, I don’t know how many games, that Stefanski's play calling and lack of timely utilization of the NFLs best rusher has come into question by announcers, former NFL coaches and curre t and former NFL players. But whatever.

My guess is NOT PRESENT.

Why SMH? I said it was a putrid game, the season didn't go well, and mentioned high expectations for next year that should result in job losses if those expectations aren't met. I'm willing to let the process play out through next season. So are you shaking your head just because we disagree on the timeline for coaching/front office turnover?

I'm going to do myself a favor: I have NO expectations for next year. I WILL be a Browns fan without doubt. But I have no expectations.

No LW, I was SMH in disgust that we need to keep our fingers crossed on DW getting it going here.

Good point Dave .. almost every game the announcers say something like “boy, you’d think cleveland would try to get chubb some more touches here”

Looking back the year. the success story or non success story of
Andrew Berry pick WR David Bell, wrapped up a rookie year.

Pro football reference David Bell, played in fifteen games.
Fifteen games?? Who knew? who really knew. 3 starts

Fifteen games, 33 targets... ...

Fifteen games, 33 targets, 24 catches on 33 targets, for the rookie year of David Bell
seven of those catches,... went for first downs, and he had one Kick return for twelve. 0 TD.

Well Khaderel Hodge could have done that. ... I thought maybe David Bell was injured most of the year,
if he played in fifteen games, 3 starts,
33 targets 24 catches seven first downs 0 TDs and a partridge in a pair tree.
Very Good first year? or ... another referendum on the offense.
Top WR pick of the Browns draft.

Bell and Schwartz probably had high Wonderlic scores.

It's maddening. Everyone see and hears it. Hell, look no further than all the "RUN CHUBB" shirts out there. It's naddening. The offense should run through Chubb. He is that elite of a player. Watson comes in and Stefanski gets all pass happy to the point where it is a subject by most talking heads every game. It's alomst like a ego thing with Stefanski. This is nothing new though. I was a big fan of his when he first came here then took us to the playoffs. He has regressed tremendously in my eyes.

Stefanski needs to give up the play calling tonight but you know he won't.

The steelers are a classless [censored] organization. They did a sack celebration where they simulated cpr.

I recall the all hype David Bell got when Berry drafted him
He really showed very little this year.
Averaged less than 10 yards a catch
Zero TDs. The Browns need to start drafting WRs that
Are end zone threats
DPJ Bell Schwartz
4 TDs between them.
That's sad

I also remember people thinking it was a good pick

In terms of David Bell .. you alluded to it, but he doesn’t show anything athletically that makes him special. No size, no speed, no quickness, etc.

I watched other rookie WRs who came on strong and showed some nice ability. Bell was as bland as it gets.

The only thing he brings is he is a reliable receiver. He just doesn't get open enough to have the ball thrown his way. I blame Berry for that.

Bell was drafted after we had Watson. Berry should have known we were going to need to retool the O for Watson. We need quick twitch receivers who can turn on a dime as Watson turns on a dime to escape a pass rush. The receivers have to be able to break route and get over to a position where Watson can find them and get them the ball.

So a rookie who joined our team and showed no improvement at all.
How much is that on him, how much of that is on the coaching staff?

Probably mostly on the player.

I don't think development of players is the right word in the NFL. Maybe refinement is the word. If you have to develop a player, then you drafted the wrong player. Unlike the other sports that have developmental coaches in lower levels, you don't have that in the NFL. Baseball doesn't put a developmental pitcher on the bump. They put him in the minors to work out the kinks.

If you can't come in and pretty much play in the NFL, you are done.

I guess my argument is he has very little physical tools to work with … hes really unremarkable besides the fact that he’s got above average hands. I didnt see much ability to separate, make people miss, high point a ball, etc.

Look, you started it by attaching the words "mind boggling" and "comical" to my name.

Predicting a pass or a run means nothing. Tell us the play. Was it a trap? A counter? Inside or outside zone? Base/man blocking? What was the route tree? 3 step drop? 5? 7? Boot? Play action? You are not smarter than our coaching staff. Stop pretending.

j/c:

At this point, I would have hoped to see more out of Watson. I get the offensive line issues/injuries but he's still holding the ball too long and doesn't seem anywhere close to being comfortable in this offense.

We'll see.

This would be my comment as well. He seems to really hold the ball long and seems a step slow in his decision making, whether it’s trouble reading the defense or just rusty I don’t know.

He definitely had some nice moments, but not near what we need him to be

No one here claimed to be smarter than the coaching staff. Criticism where criticism is due doesn't make any poster smaemrter than our coaching staff and doesn't suggest the poster believes they could do a better job.

If you don't believe that predicting if a play is a run or pass with high accuracy helps the defense regardless of the exaxt type of play call and direction, maybe your not as football smart as you believe? Or maybe your rush to defend all things Stefanski has you posting BS

That might be true of a 1st round draft pick, but not a 3rd+ rounder.
Teams need to be able to find a diamond in the rough and polish that player up

From the usual TV angle, it appears that he absolutely holds the ball too long. What we don't see is the routes being run and the running of the routes. Cooper and Njoku are oftentimes open when the ball is thrown to them...the other guys? Not so much.

The OL was giving up pressure and we don't have ball-catchers who get open with regularity - outside Cooper or Njpku.

Watch a Bengals game...rarely is there anyone near the targeted receiver...pitch and catch with room for YAC...it's maddening that we never have those plays.

Agreed. It was beyond classless. And I am not surprised that they did it.

Was on my phone. Wanted to correct the typos before grammar police intervene.

Smarter. Exact. You're.

Just to make a comment about one specific play where Watson threw into what the announcers called triple coverage that resulted in one of the interceptions ... I'd need to re-watch the play to be 100% certain, but watching live it appeared to me that there were 3 Browns WR all within 12-15 ft of each other, meaning there were at least 3 defensive backs/players in the area and maybe 1 safety at the back making 4? To me that's questionable play design - the WR weren't at 3 different levels trying to find the soft spot in a zone, if anything two of them seemed to be converging. If there's a link to the play I'd watch it again to see if what I thought I saw live was what actually happened.

Yoda??

I'll jump on, because I agree with everyone here.

I'll add that the "holding the ball too long" is a blessing and a curse. Even when scrambling; he keeps his head on a swivel and often finds the open man. I'll say it for the fiftieth time -- Pig Pen made a career and an artform out of that -- it just takes time for everyone to know their role.

Mostly anecdotal: Early on, I was worried about all the ensuing holding calls (we led the league in holding this year, btw). I checked his career in Houston, they were near the bottom of the league every year. Puzzling. Maybe the idea is... DO NOT HOLD, after three seconds, Deshaun can take care of himself.

The Steelers played with pride and heart and to make sure Tomlin didn't have a losing season. The Browns had their U Hauls lined up and ready to go. The Pittsburgh Steelers are WINNERS. The Cleveland Browns are LOSERS - and will continue to be LOSERS under the direction of Jimmy Haslam. It's that simple.

j/c

I think the post I'm about to make would probably fit better in the other thread I just don't think it would be well received there.....

This game was not something I can blame on either side of the ball. From the standpoint of the defense some may be able to claim that the two int's were partially responsible for the loss and while there may be some truth to that, the Steelers have been putrid at best on the O side of the ball and that's putting it mildly. They are ranked 26th in scoring in the NFL. 28 points is the most points that the Steelers O has scored since Nov. 20th. In their last two games they have scored 13 and 16 points respectively. Pickett, passed for completion rate of 44.8% yesterday. There is no excuse for giving up 28 points to the Steelers.

After last weeks second half performance by watson, what Browns fans saw yesterday is not what they should have expected to see. There had been a gradual progression but yesterday we certainly saw a step back. It's great to have such a high completion percentage but when 2 of the 10 passes you missed were int's. that certainly makes the completion percentage less impressive. Addressing the 2 int's... One was either an obvious bad read or an overthrow. There were 2 WR's underneath that were pretty much open and then the one who the ball seemed to be his intended target. I would like to believe he simply overthrew the ball rather than to think he threw directly into triple coverage. The other int. he simply locked his eyes on the intended target and made it easy to read where the ball was going to be delivered. As such the defender jumped the route for an easy int. Neither of those were something one would expect to see form an accomplished QB. His persistent tendency to hold and pat the ball isn't a positive either.

I won't get into the fact that while the Browns averaged a full two yards more per carry on rushing downs that the Steelers actually rushed the ball 15 more times than the Browns. I think those numbers alone speak for themselves.

At this point in time I think people who are being realistic would have to ask themselves how much longer will the process of "watson getting back to normal" take? How many more games? Don't fool yourselves into believing that practice simulates game speed. Hopefully it won't take many more games for watson to get back to his old self. These are things we are all seeing. These are the realities of where we are now.

Everyone can blame everything from the coaching, to the players to the FO. And some may even blame a combination of all those things. I tend to dismiss blaming the players overall more than the others. We've seen where the defense has played lights out. It's hard for me to fathom that some weeks they know how to play football and some weeks they forget how. We've also seen the O being productive both with Brissett at QB when we had a top 10 O in production, to the one game with watson last week. So I'm not buying what some people are trying to sell that the players on the roster know how to play the game at a high level sometimes then forget how to play at a high level other times. There are causes that may get that perception to manifest itself but I won't get into that either.

Hopefully next season brings a brighter future. Because at some point fans have to start asking themselves when enough is enough?

Tough to argue that Beast

Ah yes the QB.
His pay is equivalent to the GNP of a Latin American country,but his output is equal to that of a small Appalachian county.
Doesnot bode well for the future.

Fire: Berry, De Podesta, Stefanski, & Wood. And bite the bullet until we are able to participate in the draft again. We have crap draft picks until 2025. I’m so tired of this team owned and ran by imbeciles.

Quit until we can win back the draft? Bold strategy, Dean.

It's not @uiting just to fire everyone, they'd bring in another at each position.
almost liked the post.
Any post that begins with
Fire; Berry, Depodesta, ...
is difficult not to hit the like button on.

I mean, if you love the Browns you want them to fix or see the problems.