This whole situation has turned into bizzaro world.

Everybody involved is giving the politically correct answer. But something is rotten in Denmark.

Nobody walks in Lamar's shoes. But it seems many are questioning why is he not playing?

Harbaugh and the Ravens say he is our guy and our future. Lamar is consistently quoted about all I want to do is win Super Bowls.

Yet what is really going on? No deal. No play. Three games from a Super Bowl. Way slower recovery from a PCL sprain. Questionable use of medical terminology. "Knee unstable."

Lamar has missed the playoffs before.

What would you do if you are the Ravens? Franchise tag available. How will Lamar react if the tag is applied?

Quarterbacks don't grow or fall off trees.

I would seriously consider trading him for max value. At least see what offers come.

I'm probably going to be wrong on this, but isn't he an unrestricted free agent after this year? Meaning, does Baltimore even have the ability to trade him?

He is unless he is tagged.

There are ways to do it, but there are hurdles as well.

If a player is tagged with a franchise tag, that player is still technically a free agent until they sign the offer (the “franchise tender”). Prior to that, they don’t have a valid contract with the original team (henceforth: “Team A”), so you can’t trade a player who doesn’t actually work for you. So start with the fact that unless the player SIGNS the franchise offer, the answer is a flat “no” because there’s no valid contract. That’s the player’s leverage in all of this.

What Team A does have is the RIGHTS to the player — they do exert some control over his ability to play for anyone else (“Team B”). There are three different cases:

Exclusive franchise tender (almost always used on QBs): the player can ONLY sign or sit out. No right to go elsewhere.
Non-exclusive franchise tender: the player can negotiate and sign with Team B, but by virtue of making the franchise offer, Team A gets two #1 picks from the new team, driving up the cost of acquiring the player. This price USUALLY scares off any interest; I can’t remember the last time someone actually paid the price.
Transition tag: works similarly in terms of the tender offer and the right to match the offer, but with no draft-pick compensation. It’s rarely used because if you’re (Team A) gonna go through this process at all, you want to get some picks back.
It’s important to understand that in all three cases, the tender offer is the average of the top players at the same position, so the trade-off for controlling that player’s movement is you have to pay him like a star for that one year. And it’s guaranteed money.

So there are times when you can get trades in situations like that. Team A has this valuable asset, but maybe they can’t fit him under the cap, or a younger cheaper player emerged at the same position, or they’re about to go into a rebuild and want to stockpile draft picks, or the player and coach clash. So Team B says: we’re prepared to sign your guy, but if you’re going to insist on the two first-rounders, we’ll walk away and you’ll be stuck with an $18M WR we both know you can’t afford. But if you make it a 2nd and a 4th, we’ll take him. If the teams agree and if the player can hammer out an extension with Team B, the deal can get done.

As the world turns in Baltimore.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/spor...-huntley-after-playoff-loss/11061656002/

Some people are not happy.

This will be an interesting scene to keep an eye on.

Lamar not traveling w/the team is huge. Harbaugh looks like he is about to have a nervous breakdown. I wonder what Baltimore could get for Lamar in a trade? Analysts are saying even more than Watson got, but I don't know about that. Watson has always been a much better passer of the football than Lamar. I am not talking about stats. I'm talking about making reads, throwing to the right guy, using all parts of the field, accuracy, etc. Glad the Rats are in a precarious position. They stole our team.

With the way Jackson is acting, I am not sure all that many teams will want the guy.

I understand a player doing what he feels is best, but not so much when it looks like you are giving up on your teammates.

I have a feeling there are more than a few Ravens players who would like to have a meeting with Lamar out behind the woodshed.

Don't disagree with him... not sure he should air that publicly.. but understand his frustration...

I agree.

Lamer has really improved as a passer. I give him major credit. However, as with many before him running quarterbacks have dues to pay.

You go down past the LOS heavy guys fall with you. Things get broken.

He is a special talent. The thing is can you afford to invest in him? He will cost. But he does not come with insurance on the investment.

I have no idea where this situation ends up.

You never know what the value is until someone is willing to pay the price.

He’s gonna be gone unless he gets the guaranteed money he wants. It’s all about guaranteed from now on

Solid takes IMO, Bone. It feels simpler to me, so it is probably wrong, but I can't shake it.

Can you trust him? What are his priorities and commitment to this team? Feels like those answers might be a bit squishy to me.

This is to a degree unique.

He is only 26 and a former MVP. He is 45-16 in games started. His QBR has been high and low.

Baltimore designed the offense around him which includes him running the ball.

Does another team look at him and say "we can do that and win with him"? Knowing the injury history.

I am not sure how this will turn out at all.

Teams will also have to consider the salary demands that he is reportedly asking for. Lamar has been wildly successful and demolished expectations, but money, injury history, style of play have to be evaluated by any team that is considering him as their qb.

JMHO, Jackson bet on himself AND LOST. He got hurt again and didn't want to expose himself to more damage WITHOUT a contract. He wanted to save money representing himself- pay for MVP season and his running- showed he can throw SOME. I would not want him on my team as THE LEADER. He's solid, when available- I wouldn't be surprised to see Baltimore offer him in trade AFTER the franchise tag.

https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.c...sible-message-to-ravens-on-social-media/

Lamar Jackson sends possible message to Ravens on social media
Posted by Mike Florio on January 16, 2023, 10:42 AM EST


Last week, things seemed to come to a head between the Ravens and quarterback Lamar Jackson. As the offseason officially commences in Baltimore, Jackson may be ready to continue to apply pressure to the pimple that has festered on the forehead of player and team.

“When you have something good,” Jackson posted on his Instagram story, “you don’t play with it. You don’t take chances losing it. You don’t neglect it. When you have something good, you pour into it. You appreciate it. Because when you take care of something good, that good thing takes care of you too.”

The comment will be interpreted as a message to the Ravens. In 2022, they refused to give him a five-year, fully-guaranteed contract. More recently, a sense of exasperation from the organization has emerged regarding his unwillingness to play in the postseason with a PCL sprain.

Jackson seemingly has tiptoed around doing anything over the past two years that would paint him as the bad guy. If the Ravens are going to subtly characterize him that way (and/or fail to push back on the efforts of outside voices to do so), he might as well embrace the role and do what Deshaun Watson did as one of the various steps on his path to a five-year, fully-guaranteed deal from the Browns — make it clear he’s done playing for his current team.

That could indeed happen in the coming weeks. All options are on the table, starting with a renewed effort to work out a long-term deal. Given that the two sides could make no progress when the relationship was strong, it’s hard to imagine a deal getting done at a time when things feel tense and dysfunctional.

The question then becomes whether the Ravens will apply the non-exclusive franchise tag, opening the door to negotiations between Lamar and other teams, and quite possibly an offer sheet or a trade.

When he loses his legs, he's got no game.

Hell, he can't even play with a high ankle sprain like last year. The best part is he knows it - can't run, sorry Coach, can't play. Yeah, that's a guy I want to hitch my wagon to and pay some ungodly amount of guaranteed money. Love it for the Rats.

IF Lamar was truly injured and couldn't play, then do you want to pay top dollar for your QB who couldn't play in the playoffs?

He played 12 games this season.


If he wasn't too injured to play, that means he quit on his team to send a message, which won't go over well with teammates, especially considering they could have won that game.

These type of comments I find confusing. What is a teams commitments to their players? I mean other than the guaranteed money the NFL has constructed their contract structure in a way they don't even have to honor it other than the guaranteed money to the players. A teams priorities is to look out for the teams best interests. The players priority is to look out for their career and families best interests. That's how all business is conducted in the world.

100% agree.. I have no problem with Lamar not wanting to play if he's not 100% and he doesn't have a long term deal... he's gotta protect himself.. I disagree with him not traveling with the team, but frankly, I don't know if he has been going to their regular season games when he was out? Frankly, he could be resting/rehabbing and it may have been more disruptive to travel? Who knows...

Either way, I love that the Ravens have some turmoil at the most important position on the team. They played a heck of a game last night and almost pulled it off... glad they lost

Why do I get the feeling that the Ravens (much like the Steelers) will be just fine either way?

Maybe because they managed to win a SB with Trent Frickin' Dilfer at QB?

And the drama only gets ratcheted up.

Does he have a dog?

I kind of smile knowing that Andrew Berry had his hand in causing the Ravens and their QB to possibly divorce. I would hope the same for the Bengals and Borrow but by then Watson's contract will look quite a bit friendlier and not have that same effect.

It makes you appreciate what a guy like Baker did here last season, but look how that turned out for him. Lamar saw that. And I bet if Mayfield had it to do over again, he would have insisted on going on IR when his shoulder got wrecked. All playing hurt did was turn the fan base on him.

Hearing turmoil in Ratbird land makes me all warm and fuzzy inside. Doesn't mean we'll get out of the AFC North basement yet, but there could be hope

A very modest goal but at this point a goal none the less.

https://www.statmuse.com/nfl/ask/lamar-jackson-win-loss-record-playoff

Along with his injury this year - and coupled with the electric play we have all seen at times - his w/l record in the playoffs is 1-3. I have no doubt a QB starved team (like the Panthers) would pay him handsomely and give up a couple first rounders. I don't see Watson money or Watson draft capital. There was risk with Watson because of the legal situation and the 1 or 2 year hiatus (depending on how you judge that) to me the Lamar risk factor is much higher.

Wonder why Pit and others aren't chastising you for bringing Baker up in a thread?

Wait, we all know why? Say what we want and it's cool. Say what we don't want to hear and attack.

Rather than do that I chose to make it clear that the entire "keeping Baker" idea was silly. I thought you said people shouldn't be telling others what to and what not to post? Oh that's right, everyone but you.

I was trying to help set an example of how to handle the topic in a constructive manner instead of starting a fight. It's true that no good deed goes unpunished.

I thought you would like my response?

I don't know all the in's and out's of contracts.

It says he UFA in 2023. I know that the Ravens could franchise him. But Lamar could hold out.

They could also extend him with a new deal.

IMO NFL players will want their money guaranteed. The NBA and MLB the salaries are guaranteed. DW got his deal. If I were a player I for sure would want that.

However, I don't know what will happen. The Ravens owner will be in on this one.

It is not like the Ravens can go to the store and buy another QB. Hunley? At the same time if you are the Ravens. Are you going to sign Lamar to a long term deal guaranteed? I don't think so.

The tone smells like divorce.

Maybe they franchise him, and he gets "hurt" again? I don't know how it all works.

This is a tough call.

Both for Lamar and the Ravens and for that matter any team that would have interest.

Money, money, money. He will get paid. However, if you only chase money and the fit is bad. Not good.

If a prospective team wants him. They will need an offense for him. If you commit to build an offense for him and it includes him running the ball.

Risky risky. If Lamar thinks he can become a more conventional drop back passer. He may not succeed.

I am sure in his mind he can do it all. But that may not be true.

So? I don't care if you feel picked on, Vers, because you're by far the biggest bully on the board. But you can't pull that crap on me because I will shut you down. How about we all give it a rest? Everybody is tired of it except you and one or two others. I've moved on and think you should too. This comment was in no way an attack on you or your preferred QB. It was just an opinion and observation. Yet, you still turned my words into an attack on somebody, smfh. So yeah, let's all move on because the next sideways attack aimed at me over anything Baker is gonna cause me to break a foot off in somebody's ass verbally, and I don't like being like that outside the outhouse. I'm asking you nicely right here and now; can we all just move on, please?

LMAO-------------Scaring people on a message board is real in your head? You are delusional. Btw--I could care less if you continue to show how clueless and in love w/Baker you are. I'm just pointing out the double standards of other posters who tell others not to even mention Baker.

Saying you will do something verbally does seem scary to snowflakes. As I stated, I explained Baker's limitations and why I think they made the right choice to move on from him. I know how much that must offend you. lmao

You are right. It's not scary in the slightest. He's living in some make-believe world where he is a tough guy.

And some people around here complain (incessantly) that all you do is lie.

I think the ravens will tag Lamar, but who knows if he’ll be receptive to that?
I don’t know what their plan B is at quarterback.

We all know you used to play tough guy until you got called out and embarrassed. Look that up.

Lamar Jackson.

Lamar?

Today article:

https://www.yardbarker.com/nfl/arti...be_available_for_trade/s1_14819_38368663


mmmmmmmm

" If " Lamar gets traded.

The North has a deck reshuffled. The Ravens go into a rebuild. They will look to restock the offense. 2023 becomes a lost season as the team reloads.

That could mean the North games change records. Browns, Bengals, Steelers may have different records in Division which could have an impact on who wins the North.

This could be a big deal for the Browns 2023 season.

Not always.

Or Huntley takes the next step and still gets 2nd or 3rd place every year.

This might have something to do with Lamar

Can't say I am surprised.

j/c:

I have to think Lamar stays in Baltimore when it is all said and done. The Browns threw a winkle in the contract negations with a dude whose mom is his agent. If there was any time Jackson needs to get an agent, that was the time.

And I hope they keep Lamar....we gotta make JOK worth the draft pick!

This.

Maybe espn can do a 30 for 30 on how the Browns had the best
"gotta make our draft pick look like it was worth something Bowl" win loss record.

I don't care what you do for a living, turning down 133 million guaranteed is a fools move. He may never get another offer that good. But I do have to say, "Mission accomplished, Andrew Berry!" At least a portion of the mission.

Yep, it's presented a challenge to all of the other 31 NFL teams. Teams who knew a fully 200+ mil. guaranteed contract was foolish.

IMO some day the NFL will have guaranteed contracts.

They will be forced into what every sport does. The DW contract in two years will be in line with what guys like Herbert, Lawrence, and others will get when their rookie deals expire.

So the Browns will have only overpaid him for three fifths of the duration of his contract?

If you wish to look at it that way.

For me it depends in how he plays going forward. 2022 is a mulligan the way I look at it.

No use fussing about the money, picks, or player for that matter; nothing will change for at least the next four/five years.

Yep, that's the only way to look at it to try and overlook that it was one fifth of his contract and that now there's only four years left. To the best of my memory that was is the most expensive Mulligan the NFL has ever seen.

Tell me again why the Browns should care about the Ravens and Lamar's contract? Then in a couple years why they should care about the Bengals and Burrow? It is not the Browns job to stay in line with other franchises. Do what is best for your team and not worry about others.

You named 2 out of the other 31 teams. It seems you and others support paying a contract with guarantees far more than any other contract in the NFL even among the QB's and maintain that's what was "the best for the Browns". No other organization in the NFL has done this. In your minds somehow this FO is smarter than all the other 31 NFL FO's. This was their third season. They didn't even sniff the playoffs and the browns finished last place in the AFC North. The evidence isn't pointing in a favorable direction in your claim this FO is or has been doing what's best for the Browns. The jury is still out on that one and they took a huge gamble.

But if you can convince yourself that the Browns have the smartest FO in the NFL, more power to you. Whatever works I guess.

Yep, that's exactly what he said.

Pretty much. Thanks for noticing.

Yes, the Watson move is a gamble. But I like this gamble better than all of these...

The potential for success is certainly higher.

The term is "closing the deal."

Think about going into 2023 with BM as qb after his season. The Browns options were what?

Go find a quarterback like Carson Wentz, or someone else others have given up on?

Go back into the draft and find someone with a pick in the middle of the first round?

How often does any team get a chance to sign a player like DW in his prime? Lots of teams were willing to take the chance on DW.

What closed the deal over the teams that met the requirements for the trade? The Browns offer.

Agree or disagree the best chance for the Browns to accomplish the goal all teams set was to get DW.

There are no guarantees but the move gave them the best opportunity.

I have no idea why Baker has to be brought up time after time. If by lots, you mean hand full of teams that's true as it pertains to trying to acquire watson. And you said it yourself that it was "The Browns offer". Did you even bother to read my response to Fate just above your post? I stated plainly that watson gave the Browns the potential for a higher probability for success than any other QB since the team returned. But what you posted about "the Browns offer" is the entire point some take issue with. It is totally unprecedented in league history. Never has such a contract been fully guaranteed.

An opportunity is based on whether it pays off or not. If it doesn't that opportunity is nothing more than sunk cost and will have turned out not to have been an opportunity at all. That remains to be seen. I'm simply saying that contract in and of itself totally changed the landscape in the NFL as it pertains to QB contracts. It appears to be nothing less than a desperation move after watson had already spurned the Browns and written them off his list.

People who are in this current FO as well as those who have preceded it have shown the total lack of ability in drafting a QB even if you give them the #1 pick much lest a mid first pick. So we certainly agree there.

The only real disagreement here is that contract. And if watson pays off the way you and others have yourselves convinced of it may end up being a good deal. But there's a big difference in an opportunity and a big gamble. As of now the jury is far from in on how that will all unfold.

The future is always TBD.

The Browns did what they had to do to close the deal.

We shall see in the future the way contracts go. If I was a player I would want my contract guaranteed. Just like the other sports.

I mean what is the point of a contract if there is only a part of it the employer must pay? "Here you go pal you have a contract for X $ and X years; except we only have to pay X $ for X time the rest of it is our option.

I don't give a damn what other teams do. Maybe the Browns should be the first with all their players and it will become the new way of NFL contracts.

It is what is now solely because the NFL owners want it that way.

I can help w/that. While it was not apparent to a small group of DawgTalkers, the rest of the NFL world recognized that he sucked and didn't want anything to do w/him. It was clearly evident to the Browns that they significantly upgrade the QB position to compete w/other AFC teams who had young, outstanding QBs. It's not rocket science.

Considering Baltimore offered south of Murray money my money is on Lamar walking.
The players union probably wants him guaranteed money north of leshaun sense he has achieved more.

I think that Baltimore is looking at Huntley and saying, let's just roll with him and save some dough. That Baltimore FO/Lamar relationship is starting to look dead to me.

I don't know the Ravens have a lot of eggs in the Lamar basket.

If the Ravens franchise him? He makes the money. But he is jeopardy because a injury could sink his future security. Players want security.

If they do not come to an agreement with a contract extension then it could get ugly. My guess is the owner caves.

They pay him.

I don't think they are going to roll with Huntley. They practically threw him under the bus for their loss to the Bengals. I do agree he was the reason they lost but if he was the QB they plan to move forward with they would have protected him some in the media.

You are correct that it's not rocket science. Anyone can see your incessant need to attack Baker at every turn. Don't pretend to blame Baker for the FO being so desperate they felt some need to offer another player a kings ransom after he told them he wasn't coming here. You sound like you're already making excuses for how you will blame Baker if this entire thing blows up in the face of this FO. And I would expect no less from you.

As usual, you get personal instead of dealing w/what I said. Take a freaking hike.

Typical way of avoiding what was posted by turning it on the one who posted it. Any time someone makes any point you disagree with that's the way you handle it. Avoid the points and blame the people who point them out instead. I pointed out the obvious and you try to twist it into being a personal attack. Hilarious.

You asked a question about not having any idea why Baker is brought up all the time.

I answered it honestly. It was evident to all but a few of you that the Browns needed a new qb. The league also agreed w/the Browns take that Baker is not the guy.

Don't ask a question if you don't want a truthful answer. You making this about me does not change the facts.

Ah, I see. You wish to rewrite what it is you actually said. You didn't say the Browns needed a new QB. That would be easy for anyone to agree with. At least almost anyone. As per usual, the one who acts like it's others who make things personal was the very one who did that here.


That's what you do all of the time. Then try to act like it wasn't you who made what could have been something civil into something nasty. But you keep doing you while you deny it.

You, you, you.

Thanks for a thoughtful response.

That's one of us!

I hope it works out simply because I want to win. But I have more doubts than good feelings right now.

OCD it's nice to be optimistic but that is very hard if you're a Browns fan. How can you not have doubts with our history? The league used to laugh at the Bengals all the time for many years but at least they made it to 3 Super Bowls and are on the cusp of making another one. They've been more successful than us hands down!

HWD. Here is the thing about history.

It is in the past. It doesn't count at all when a new season begins.

there are so many different factors that go into a season the past is left far behind.

We can all speculate about things like how DW will play or for that matter any player. It doesn't count. We lost the Jets game in a manor that seemed inconceivable. All the percentages from the past meant nothing.

2023 will begin a new season. What will happen is determined on each and every play.

The factory of sadness BS and all the gloom and doom forecasted by some. Doesn't count.

We have a team that should compete. How it will end will depend on so many factors that it is impossible to predict.

History is in the past but we seem to bring OUR history to the present every year. I've got no axes to grind with you Bone and I enjoy reading your posts but it's the same nonsense with us every year. You mentioned the Jets game. Awful, should have never happened right? It hadn't happened like that in 20 years and what team was the last to do it? US back in 2002 against the Bears. Over 2100 games and we were the last and first to do it again. Year after year we can't stop the run, we give up points before the half all the time and there's probably more that I can't think of right now. Other teams may do this too but we do it consistently year after year while we make the playoffs once a decade and never win our division. SAD!!!!

We are just discussing.

Well it is sad. However, 2023 is a new and different year. IMO the defense will be way better just because of Jim Schwartz. I think the run defense will vastly improve and players will know assignments.

I also believe that Woods misused players Newsome, and JOK in particular.

We play in a tough division. That is reality and in order to win the North. We have to be better. Deshaun Watson was a calculated risk. A huge investment that has to pay off if we are to win. We will have to see how that plays out. But it was a decision that I think will at least give us a chance.

I agree. I think our D will be better under JS and DW was a good gamble because we needed more talent at QB to compete with the best teams in our conference. Let's just hope DW gets back to his playing level of a few years ago.

Re: JOK. Absolutely.

I believe it will be a pleasant surprise how well the defense will play.

There is talent on the defense. Myles, Ward, Newsome, JOK, Delpit, Emerson, even Winfrey these are talented players.

Other guys like Taki, Walker, and even JJ3 are starter caliber players who can play in a scheme and be productive in defined roles.

The pieces to have a good defense are there. We just need to add players who are not liabilities and coach them properly.

Agree 100%

Yeah as really Watson realizes second chances don't come very easy. Hope he can really redeem himself on and off the field.

j/c...

LMAO. That relationship is going to crash and burn.

Lol. Yep. Next season.

Has Baltimore become dysfunctional by not signing Lamar and franchise tagging him?

No.

Lamar is representing himself along with his mother. It makes dealing difficult. They do not know all the in's and out's of these types of negotiations.

Baltimore is in a tight spot. They know Lamar wins. At the same time how do you commit major money long term to a guy who failed to play when it counts most? He could have played in the playoffs. Mahomes did. The team knows it. In addition he has missed a lot of games. If you are Baltimore would you want to commit to a long term highly expensive contract to guy you have to expect will miss games. Knowing you starve the roster to pay the qb.

If I was Baltimore I would do what the Texans did with DW. I would auction Lamar off for all I could get. Draft a quarterback at the top of the draft on a rookie deal and back load the team. Put talent all over the field.

The difference is the Texans didn't have a choice.

Prediction: By week 3, neither will the Ravens.

I wonder why you think that? Do you think Lamar will refuse to play under the franchise tag or that we will sign a new contract and refuse to honor it? Or maybe some other reason?

I think he's a bit of head case (could very well be wrong) and seems immature (plenty of evidence). Just reading tea leaves here...

Stories come out that "Lamar will help choose next OC". My immediate thought -- yep they're kissing his butt, stroking his ego, trying to get the deal done.

Few days later: franchise tag.

The Ravens probably reworked the previous offers with a little more money, a little more guaranteed money, and the promise: "Lamar, we want to build this thing together, that's why we're letting you help pick your next OC".

Lamar and mommy said "Watson money or pound salt".

Ravens made their choice.


He won't do anything more than necessary during camp / preseason and will come in pouty. After first loss, he'll demand a trade, ahead of the deadline.

That's quite a bit of prognostication. Not saying it couldn't happen though.

It's out there lol. I'm sure I'm wrong. More of a "wouldn't surprise me a bit" (and wishful thinking) than anything else.

I am not making predictions, but there are former players saying that Lamar should not play under the Franchise tag. Not sure if they know what they are talking about or not.

That has no bearing on the Ravens choice.

It is merely an example of what they could expect in return. Last season KC traded Tyreek Hill. I thought it was a brilliant move.

Miami traded five draft picks to the Kansas City Chiefs for Hill: a first-rounder, a second-rounder, two fourths and a sixth. Losing Hill did not seem to hurt them.

That is a lot of draft capital for a guy they could not afford to pay.

The franchise tag will be a heavy price. A contract could choke them. Unless Lamar somehow becomes reliable that is really rolling the dice.

I don't care what they do. The Browns will have to beat other teams and other great quarterbacks to achieve their goals.

Lamar is a handful but it appears teams are figuring out to play against him.

They are moving on from Greg Roman. They have not yet signed a new OC. Byron Leftwich and Todd Monken are in the mix.

If the Ravens go to a more standard offensive scheme using WR's more. Lamar may not look the same or be as effective. IMO Lamar wants to be a passer. Roman created a running based attack.

No matter what happens it will be interesting to follow. The owner I am sure is deep into all of this.

What has no bearing on the "Raven's choice"? As we've seen sometimes the choice isn't in the hands of the team. Sometimes it's the player who makes the choice.

Then his options are to refuse to play, correct?

Not sure exactly how it works.

I've said for a couple years that I was pretty sure the Ravens would chew him up and spit him out, depending on performance and injuries. I've marveled at the fact that they didn't try to change him; most teams do because they're worried about injuries.

He's an electric player. He also seems to get in his own head and perform badly when frustrated... and now we have a couple season-ending injuries that destroyed the teams chances of a championship.

I'm not sure if either side is right or wrong... No player who has played for the opportunity for the real contract wants to be tagged. Anything could happen, especially an injury, that could literally cost them 100M+. I get it.

Problem is, Lamar wants Watson money -- he's not getting it, not from Baltimore or anyone else. Not today, anyway. His only chance at Watson money is to turn in another MVP performance and take his team deep into the playoffs. Baltimore does not want to pay him Watson money, at least not yet, and is playing by the rules to have another season and opportunity to see if his talent puts them over the top.

Sitting out costs him, what, 45M this year? In the prime of his career? Seems like a tough gamble when you're paying 45 to sit at the table. jmo

Lamar has not refused to play... yet.

All you "hear" is they including the owner want him. Lamar has said he wants to be there. Maybe it all PC.

It is an interesting situation.

Yeah, he won't have many options. He can't refuse the tag. Players don't usually like the franchise tag due to there not being enough security, but they don't have many options. Players might hold out during camps and through the pre-season. Not sure about this, but I think LeVean Bell was the only dude to sit out a full season.

Bell eventually landed a 52M contract with the Jets, but never returned to form. He also left 13M on the table by missing the season. He rushed for less in the next three seasons combined than he did in his last year with the Steelers. Meanwhile the Steelers were fine with Conner, and Tomlin responded to Bell's holdout with "we want volunteers, not hostages".

I guess, if the relationship was broken anyway, he did just fine moneywise. But as far as his career trajectory -- careful what you wish for?

It will be interesting to see how this all works out.

No doubt. I actually think Bell ruined his career w/that move.

Baltimore is going forward with Huntley and a rookie; at least, I bet that's how this plays out in the end, rather intentional or not.

I don't think it's anything to do with Lamar the person. I think the Ravens know they either have to pay him like DW or move on. And rather the team thinks he quit on them, I don't know, but I do know I'm not paying a QB that kind of money if he struggles to stay healthy every year. I don't think the big money will ever be offered and one side (the most frustrated) will walk. But for next year, they franchised him and I think he plays under the tag until mid-season before any of this becomes a real distraction. But when mid-season comes and the talks have stalled, I predict drama.

If the Ravens pay Lamar, his health will improve...

Well that sounds like they are not even on the same book. Let alone the same page.

Anew book was written when watson was signed.

The contract of Eric Bieniemy is set to expire after the Super Bowl, and according to ESPN’s Adam Schefter, he is considered a “prime candidate” to land the same role with the Baltimore Ravens.

https://brownswire.usatoday.com/2023/02/08/ravens-chiefs-eric-bieniemy-prime-candidate/

mmmm. That would be interesting. Lamar is supposed to be involved in the search.

IMO Lamar has a chip on his shoulder about how he is viewed as a passer. I believe he wants to be in a passing scheme to get the recognition as a passer.

I am speculating. But that is what I think.

Bieniemy coming from KC with Reid. Passing is king. Lamar could get the chance to prove most wrong. Or, he could fall flat.

I don't think Lamar wants anything more than Lamar getting PAID. Period. Somebody said they were one hundred million dollars apart! All the feel-better scheming in the world will not budge him that much. I'm so interested to see what Kind of deal him and his mom can negotiate on the free agency market. I think he thinks way too much of himself, and the Browns way overpaid/guaranteed DW complicating the situation. Not saying DW can't earn it in the long run, but that figure guaranteed was ridiculous and we all know it.

It is pretty odd. Since Lamar was drafted the Ravens have made the playoffs every year but one. They've had double digit wins in every year but one since he was drafted. It seems that's a better resume' than QB's who were recently signed to much more money than Baltimore is offering.

The money is going to do nothing but go up. Burrow will drive the market as will others.

The new OC has not yet been determined. The Ravens with Lamar on the roster will reach that point where upgrading the team at other positions will become very hard. Dropping big money on receivers may not be an option.

The organization IMO has to start to look at options. Can they win with Huntley and what they would get in return for trading Lamar?

That is a really hard question to answer. The money will give them free agent options to upgrade plus they would have serious draft assets.

That could be attractive.

If I were them and they got a really good offer for Lamar. I would trade him.

You could put together a very strong complete team with Huntley. You would be able to draft a quarterback and still have high draft capital.

So yes I would trade him. Keeping in mind the risk of signing Lamar with his injury history and how limited spending would be with him.

Trade Lamar Jackson? Ravens plan to tag and keep QB, but could be tempted by big trade offer
Published: Feb 11, 2023 at 04:04 PM

by Tom Pelissero, Ian Rapoport & Mike Garafolo

The Baltimore Ravens will place the franchise tag on quarterback Lamar Jackson if the sides cannot agree to a long-term deal in the coming weeks -- and there is a possibility other teams could tempt Baltimore to trade the former NFL MVP for a windfall of draft picks, per sources.

Jackson, 26, played out his rookie deal this past season and is unsigned for the 2023 season. In a season-ending press conference, Ravens head coach John Harbaugh said there was a "200% chance" that Jackson stays in Baltimore and general manager Eric DeCosta said they were excited to restart negotiations, even after Jackson missed the end of a second consecutive season because of injury.

But Jackson's desire for more fully guaranteed money -- in line with Deshaun Watson's five-year, $230 million fully guaranteed contract with the Browns -- has kept the sides from striking a deal, despite Baltimore making multiple offers near the top of the QB market in key metrics.

If the sides don't come to terms on a long-term deal before the March 7 tag deadline, the likelihood is still that Jackson plays in Baltimore. Yet there are multiple ways Jackson could end up playing elsewhere in 2023.

The Ravens could tag Jackson and explore options for a trade, with surely no shortage of suitors for one of the NFL's most dynamic talents. Jackson would effectively have veto power over his destination, since he'd need to sign the franchise tender to complete the deal and any team giving up the level of compensation would want to work out a contract.

If Baltimore places the non-exclusive franchise tag (worth $32.416 million) on Jackson, that would allow him to negotiate a contract with another team; if the Ravens don't match, they'd get two first-round picks as compensation and Jackson would get a new home.

The non-exclusive tag also could potentially allow the Ravens to keep Jackson for the long haul by letting another team negotiate the long-term deal, which Baltimore then could match. The more expensive exclusive franchise tag would prevent Jackson from negotiating with any other team.

This situation has been years in the making as Jackson -- who doesn't have an agent and has his mother serving as an advisor -- played for just $1.77 million in 2021 and on his $23.016 million fifth-year option in 2022. He missed five games in 2021, including the last four because of a bone bruise in his ankle, and the last six games this past season (including a wild-card playoff loss at Cincinnati) because of what he tweeted last month was a Grade 2 PCL sprain in his knee.


If Jackson were to play on the tag with Baltimore in 2023, the Ravens could tag him again in 2024 and potentially a third time in 2025, though a third tag would be virtually cost-prohibitive. That means Jackson is at least two years away from having the type of leverage that Kirk Cousins had to get his three-year, $84 million fully guaranteed deal from Minnesota in 2018. Watson also had rare leverage last year, in spite of allegations of sexual misconduct, because the Texans allowed him to negotiate with several teams that had agreed to trade terms before Watson agreed to go to Cleveland when they ripped up his existing deal for a new guaranteed pact.

It also comes at a time of transition for the Ravens, who parted ways with offensive coordinator Greg Roman after the season. Harbaugh said Jackson would be involved in the process of selecting the next OC, though sources say he has not had direct communication with any candidates. The Ravens have yet to make a hire and are interested in speaking with Chiefs offensive coordinator Eric Bieniemy in the coming days.


https://www.nfl.com/news/trade-lama...nd-keep-qb-but-could-be-tempted-by-big-t

Our Watson money sure has hosed some teams- good, if the enemy is bitching about money, they aren't working as hard to beat us.

Go Browns!!

" Fully guaranteed contract."

That should be one word.

Lamar is going to take the Deshaun Watson deal from outlier to trend. And once he gets his "fully guaranteed contract."

All these other quarterbacks like Burrow, Herbert and the others will say. "I want a guaranteed contract."

The NFL owners exclusive good old boys club is about to get a bad wake up call.

You can bet all the owners and players are watching this. The players are like "You go Lamar make them squirm."

The owners who have played the game with deferred money and pay as you go. Are not wanting to shell out full deals to escrow.

I hope DW balls out and his deal ends up looking like a bargain. I have no problem with players getting as much as they can get. Football is a brutal, violent game. Careers are short like 3 years. Many players face a life of pain after their football careers. Many are left disabled by brain trauma.

All the other sports the money is guaranteed. The NFL is controlled by billionaire owners who milk the system. So, I have no problem with the players getting theirs.