discuss

Nice! He was a guy I wanted coming into Round 4.

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Seems explosive

Another solid 4th round pick!!

Not much of a surprise with this pick. There were a lot of people that had the Browns drafting him today.

Yeah i had heard it a lot too

Like the pick, I mentioned him yesterday before we picked Ilka.

From Dane Brugler....

STRENGTHS: Physically impressive with a long-armed, moldable frame and comfortably carries his weight ... stout at the point of attack with lateral range in the run
game ... uses his arm length to quickly play off blocks and find the ball ... slams his physical hands into the chest of blockers as a pass rusher to force his way into the
pocket (see: his matchup versus Broderick Jones on the 2022 Georgia tape) ... unleashes a violent rip-chop move and shows the ability to grab and dispose of
blocker’s wrists to access rush lanes ... shows enough dip at the top of his rush to tighten his cornering angles and force holding calls ... speed is average but displays
enough juice to track down ball carriers from the backside or in pursuit ... heavy tackler ... voted a senior captain and young for his class ... productive in the backfield
(31.0 TFL in 35 games the last three seasons).

WEAKNESSES: Not a sudden rusher and won’t beat blockers with his get-off and speed alone ... NFL blockers will catch on to his predictable rush plan ... needs to be
more consistent with his setup and move timing to maximize execution ... pad level gets high, leaving him exposed to down blocks and washouts ... late to anticipate
side-angled blocks that seal him inside ... stack and shed can get too methodical at times ... saw more drop-and-cover reps in 2022, but this area isn’t yet a strength to
his game ... expected better sack/pressure production based on his talent ... didn’t bench during the draft process because of his right shoulder.

SUMMARY: A three-year starter at Missouri, McGuire was a hand-on-the-ground defensive end in defensive coordinator Blake Baker’s 4-2-5 base scheme, although
he also reduced inside at times. He led the Tigers in sacks as a junior and senior and planted his flag as one of the best all-around defensive ends in the SEC with his
2022 season. McGuire is stout at the point of attack with the long arms and lateral quickness to defend multiple gaps. Although he isn’t sudden as a pass rusher, he
has strong strides and body flexibility to wrap the outside shoulder of offensive tackles or create forceful knockback with his bull rush. Overall, McGuire needs
further polishing to truly maximize his skill set, but he is long, agile and powerful enough to effectively leverage blockers and disrupt both the run and the pass. He
is a scheme-diverse prospect and projects as a future NFL starter.

GRADE: 3rd-4th Round (No. 94 overall)

I like that he is good against the run too. Thats where we struggle at DE

Good point

I really like this pick

I don't remember seeing him play, but those highlights are impressive. He doesn't explode out of his stance, but he covers a lot of ground quickly. Seems to have violent hands. Wonder why he wasn't rated higher? He looks awfully good in that video. He beat some decent tackles, like the dude from Tennessee.

Thought i read that he was pretty inconsistent and didn’t have a great final season.

SEC coaches recognized his play in 2022 by voting him second-team all-conference after he accumulated 39 tackles, 13 tackles for loss with a team-high 7.5 sacks in 12 starts.

I like the size. Hope he can set the edge against the run.

He was my favorite day 3 player that we drafted.

He’s probably my favorite pick from today too

Where will he end up ranking among the two DE's drafted last year.
Isaiah McGuire
Isaiah Thomas and
Alex Wright, all 3 are about 6'4 to 6'five, and about two hundred seventy pounds, Maybe Myles Garret is a similar height and weight too.

I listened to Q on a regular basis. His voice and his takes are so reminiscent of a close friend of mine who passed away that I almost have too.

As soon as the Browns 2022 season ended and Schwartz was hired. I knew the DL was going to get a make over.

Schwartz is known for a strong front. He does not want to blitz. He wants to rush the passer and stop the run with his front four.

Tomlinson was the first FA signed. Ika was a Schwartz pick. These guys will make a difference in controlling the interior gaps.

McGuire adds to the edge rotation. Both Ogbo and McGuire are edge speed rushers.

It will be clear when games begins that this defense will be way different than the 2022 defense.

McGuire and Ogbo should benefit from having a player like Myles. They should learn a lot and get chances to make plays.

I’m wondering if Schwartz plans to have the DEs so wide like he has before

I don't think the DE's will be lined up as wide .. wider than normal, but not so wide where our smaller LB like JOK has to take on a blocker by himself.

I'm also wondering if Schwartz is working with Myles on containing the run. It's the one thing I think he could get better at.

I think with improved interior play from the 0 gap to the 2 gap the runners will be forced to look off tackle.

Myles rush defense will be there. He will be more in tune on early downs.

The front four will be playing a different brand of defense.

I look forward to it.

I hope they don't line up too wide. JOK and Walker stink against the run. JOK is too weak to engage and shed blockers. He takes terrible angles to avoid contact. Walker is also not strong enough. Taki is the best against the run, but I wonder how much he will play.

Philly had a great DL last year, but they really struggled against the run. Hargrave was a stud against the run in Pittsburgh and not a great pass rusher. It was reversed in Philly's scheme.

I am hoping that Schwartz can create some special role for JOK, where he is just utilized as a pass rusher and a guy who can roam in the flat. Kinda like the safeties like James and the dude in Seattle when he is healthy. I think he is extremely overrated as a true LBer. He was awful last year.

That's never going to be a base formation ... that's used vs 3rd and long, 2nd and 20 ect...

Got it thanks all

I respect your opinion but I disagree with your take on JOK.

IMO he was not used correctly by Woods. The play at DT was a factor as well.

In addition based upon his first year and his college career. Last year was a rough year for a second year player. His brother's death in the spring was not any easy thing to handle. Life is reality and it hits us all.

Schwartz will make a difference. He has already. The DL has been overhauled.

JOK is an outside LB. His game is not stack and shed. His game is beat the blocker to the spot and cover. If you watch his tape from college and his first year .
You see his skills. You listen to the players and coaches. They see his skill.

i do not think he is weak. Nor do I think he takes bad angles.

Be patient. There is a new DC and JOK will play well this year IMO.

I respect your opinion, as well. However, I know he takes bad angles. I even provided video evidence of it occurring. He does have trouble shedding blocks. That's a strength issue. I figured that you would not like my analysis of JOK when I wrote that last night, so I looked up his scouting reports. Here are a list of weaknesses.


Those are things I have seen in the NFL. He really doesn't know how to play LBer. I'm a former coach and things like that drive me nuts.


Here is a comment from a NFL personnel guy:



I loved Simmons coming out, but it's been much the same for him in the NFL.

Now, for the good. Here are his strengths:



I don't think Woods misused JOK. I just think that JOK is not a true LBer in the fundamental sense. I think JOK has some elite skills, but I believe that a special, maybe unique, role will have to be created for him. I don't see him being good in the traditional LBer role where he has to fill gaps, take on blockers, shed blockers, and make strong tackles on RBs. I think he can excel if a special role is created for him where they use him as a disrupter. Run and pass blitzer. Use him in zone coverages to sprint to the flat and disrupt screens and short throws.


Note: Here is the link for the scouting report I referenced.

https://www.nfl.com/prospects/jeremiah-owusu-koramoah/32004f57-5560-4524-4478-5c5967f00096

IMO the position of OLB has changed.

DE's are now called edge rushers. They are smaller and faster than before.

Linebackers are expected to be three down players because they have to cover. That includes TE's and slot receivers.

The days of the big linebacker are over. You may have a traditional stack and shed guy in the middle. But not on the outside.

Last year guards and centers were getting to the second level. An outside linebacker is not going to stack and shed a 300lb guard.

He has to use quickness to beat the blocker to the spot. JOK uses instincts and quickness. He can cover. If you can not cover. You can not play three downs in the NFL. This is a passing league which uses TE's and slot receivers all over the space past the LOS. Rub routes and pics are used commonly underneath.

IMO guys like JOK will become more common. IMO he is a special talent. I believe with better DT play and clear communication on defense under Schwartz. You will see the impact JOK will have.

We shall see.

Schwartz was hired to fix the defense.

Free agency came and went. The draft is now over.

The Browns made no move to sign a linebacker. The moves made were to the DL interior. First free agent Tomlinson was signed. Juan Thornhill a safety was signed and JJ3 was left to walk.

Ogbo was signed to rush the passer. Taki was signed. Hurst a DT was signed. Siaki Ika was drafted.

JJ3 missed tackles and failed to cover.

The DT play was as bad as I have ever seen in the NFL.

The conclusion is: It must have been determined that LB play was not the problem. And the DT play was so bad that linebacker play suffered along with JJ3 not living up to his contract.

I saw a play were JOK cut into a gap closing that gap and the runner moving to the next gap. JJ3 was slow to read and late to arrive. The result TD.

JJ3 talked a lot and did little backing it up.

I can not recall seeing defensive tackles sealed from a gap like i saw last year. It was painful to watch.

Centers and guards were clearing runways at the second level.

I expect this year to be a different story.

Can't let it go, even after what has occurred in the past.

There’s no doubt our FO deemed the lack of DL play was the reason for a failing defense. Let’s hope they’re right.

I’d still feel better if we had an upgraded LB corp. It’s a bad unit.

I agree w/that. Everyone knows that our DTs were terrible. DE was an issue due to the disappointment of Clowney.

Neither of above truths means the LBers were good. Look, I think JOK can be a dynamic player. He flashes all the time. He just has issues in the areas I mentioned earlier. That's there for everyone to see that knows the responsibilities of the position he plays. The tape doesn't lie. I haven't given up on him, but we gotta find some kind of role for him that focuses more on his playmaking skills and hides his deficiencies.

This is just a football discussion.

We don't have to agree. I see it differently.

IMO defense is unit play. The front four has their role. The linebackers and secondary have their roles.

When one unit plays poorly. It impacts the others.

I am not saying our linebackers were great. What I am saying is the DL was horrible and their play impacted the other units.

JOK did not play well at times. He made mistakes and looked bad on some plays. He then was injured and did not play.

He needs to play better and I think he will.

The people who cover college football and vote for the awards that are given to the best players in college are knowledgeable and dedicated. They know the college game. JOK received the Butkus award for colleges best linebacker. He beat Parsons for that award. I am not saying he is better than Parsons. But IMO JOK can be really good. He can cover better than Parsons.

We can delay this discussion till this season ends. I want to see the difference when the DL play improves and communication on defense is better.

I believe the results will be different.

It might be, but you can olny upgrade so much in a off season.


Add in that LB has become a diminished unit around the league, it is what it is. I mean if there is a unit to be weak on D, backer is the sport. Great backers with a weak DL don't matter. Great backers with a weak backfield don't matter. With one, if it is weak, they can't do their job. With the other, there is no job to be done.

The modern day game has made backers a tweener position.

No doubt it’s the spot to have “weak” if you have to. When we were at full strength with Walker, JOK, Phillips, Taki we are serviceable

I think that this is much more likely than the team endorsing the LBs. You can only fix so much in an off-season. My guess is that the team thought fixing the DL would have more of an impact than fixing the LBs.

I agree ... people forget that we brought LBs' in off the street due to that room being decimated by injuries.

Does JOK need to improve his play from last season? Yes, he most definitely does ... but I am not ready to kick him to the curb for a bad year with bad play all around him ... and because of his abilities in coverage.

I did not kick him to the curb. I said he hasn't played that well and that we need to find a role for him where he can succeed. I also never said that he doesn't have a chance to be good. Things get taken way out of context on here.

What? I was speaking of/for myself...