I can't believe we threw Baker under the bus, traded away 3 first round picks, and gave that man 230 million dollars for QB play that would make Mond look like a pro bowler.
What the fn hell!!!
How can Watson be so bad? Is he doing this on purpose? He wants to sit now that he got a payday? How can he possibly be this bad?
And he is low IQ. 2 face mask grabs? Never throwing the ball away? Hold onto the ball for 5 million years??? wtf.
They basically had one good offensive play.... the rest of their points were our offense gifting them...
And that play never should have happened. WE had them stopped on third down., A dump off to RB, we had three tacklers and Ward chose to just watch and the RB split of other 2 tacklers.
Coaching is a huge let down. Not sure why any past experience indicated that Stefanski needed another year to ruin chubbs prime. Schwartz should take over as HC and let Callahan be the OC or have Callahan be the HC, both have done it. Ventrone sucks, he's every bit good a coach as he was a player, JAG. DNP pretty much cost us the game when he let the ball go an it rolled 30 yards, that was huge. Defense was strong most of the game but lack playmaking game changers, Watt>Garrett. We did nothing to change our style of play when chubb went out other than not running the ball, we did nothing to change playcalling to slow the steeler rush down. We just lined up and called slow developing plays with a Rookie RT against the best DE in the nfl... thats stefanksi for you. You give Kyle Shanahan, or mike mcdaniels this offense and it would put up 30 a game easy. Makes no sense to play Goodwin, he's just a decoy an he will never get the ball, I rather have Watkins back on the 53 as he has a much better WR build. Same thing with Tillman, rather see him the DNP or even moore, we just are mismanaging everything.. Watson was bad yeah, but he had zero help from playcalling and the line. I think any QB would struggle.
Chubb injury is the worst one to a browns player in my lifetime. I don't think he recovers and probably retires. All eyes are going to be on berry right now to see what he does. Logical choice would be hunt but I wouldn't rule out making a trade for one either. While we are at it, can we trade for a pair of tackles that don't suck? Injuries galore and its always the hospital brothers ward and newsome. 100m for ward for like 3-4 games a year. We need better playmaking from the TE position, Bryant should be cut, akins is about as meh as you can get.. If you can't run the ball, you better have a plan to get your TE's involved. Despite all the BS that happened in the game we still had a shot to win and failed miserably. Coaching is holding this offense back drastically.. Its obvious to every fan, I can't believe its not to haslam. How does this team keep adding more $$ to offensive payroll yet the results aren't getting better, and in most cases going backwards..
- Watson is still not up to speed (or maybe he's just trying to do too much or maybe he just sucks) - I am sick for Nick Chubb - Myles Garrett is NOT TJ Watt - Kevin Stefanski is clueless and NO amount of talent will make him successful - Minkah Fitzpatrick better hear from the league office (although I'm sure the Browns being the soft organization that they are won't say anything) - Roger Goodell and his message about player safety are mere propaganda for any of the sheep willing to listen - The NFL officials have no problem cheating since they answer to no one and it is sad
I just wonder if the Browns will ever get a fair shake from the league against one of the league darlings. My guess is no. Such high hopes after Week 1 and now look at what the Browns are staring at. What will Berry do at RB? Will Watson ever regain his form? Will someone higher up pull the play sheet from Stefanski? I guess all the fans can do is hope. For a miracle that is. SMH
It's somewhat mildly hysterical the halfwit Haslam's are on the hook for $230M for Watson. Unfortunately, the fans suffer the short of end of the stick...... yet again.
Once Chubb went down the offense ceased to exist. I can't blame that on Watson but he sure as shooting didn't rise to the occasion. I really expect more out of an NFL quarterback than what he delivered. No running game exposes Watson to more pressure and that's all she wrote.
I would hope that they didn't let Kareen Hunt leave the stadium without a contract and a seat on the plane back to Ohio. Other options? I don't know. Didn't think I'd have to consider that one this year.
Nick Chubb was a great running back. But he's done now and that's the end of it. He needs to get surgery and the Browns need to move on somehow. He's going to be sorely missed in the next few months.
And to think I actually bought a subscription to Sunday Ticket this year. There's a sucker born every minute and most of them live in Ohio.
I just don't understand how a QB with the proven track record of Watson can look so bad. Dude was mega-mediocre last season and was getting all the excuses in the world. Tonight he's in a perfect environment and played like trash. When he's not taking sacks like a rookie he's knee-capping his offense with penalties. And it wasn't even like his supporting cast was letting him down (except for that first play). I feel like his line and catchers did a pretty decent job. He puts plays on tape where you see why they went and got him, but they're so sporadic. He's got like 2-3 awful plays for every good one. And I know it's just the fan in me talking right now, but he looks like he got his paycheck and he's checked out.
Credit where it's due.... Defense got punched in the gut and responded. Another stellar performance from them. Pickens ended up with some yards, a fluky (?) TD... but he's a bad man. Dline is definitely legit with the way they are able to shut down run game.
Harrison Bryant looked like a joke. In case you all didn't notice, he tried to do the same thing later on in the game (incompletion tipped up in the air near our endzone).
Jerome Ford has some big shoes to fill. I thought he had some good plays and definitely showed a bunch of fight.
The Steelers didn't even run a play inside the 20 and they were 4/14 on third down. Watson walked into 6 sacks with terrible pocket presence and held onto the ball longer than anything I have seen.
Watson really doesn’t seem to be the guy. I think with all the other bizarre stuff swirling around tonight that’s my main takeaway. If he were the guy he would have shown more. What an absolute lame output from him. Just sad.
I have been in Watson's corner, but I don't know. He looked like every QB we have had since '99. Watching Chubb on the cart almost put tears in my eyes. 4 friggin turnovers, are you kidding me? Defense looked good, but Myles did nothing to make me think he is elite. 14 points by the Steelers defense, nuff said
I recall the Houston Cleveland game in the year that Baker got hurt. I believe it was the second game of 2021.
Now to my eye Baker and Watson were similar. All things considered one was not better than another. Baker had better tools and the browns won.
Dropping coin and three first rounders on Watson took a lot of guts or was just plain stupid. Right now, it looks stupid.
I have rarely gone down the road of comparing Baker and Watson, but at this point I will say that they are comparable, which makes Baker the better value, given his contract, which was implausible for Cleveland at the time.
So draft choices included, Baker was the better value, ego, commercials and [censored] attitude aside.
this hurts worse than the 6 picks we gave up for Watson
First of all, Mayfield played the Vikings (their defense has taken a big step back) and the Bears (who are hot garbage). If Baker can put together a win vs the Eagles, then ok. My point is, don't try to make it into us jettisoning this great QB. I thought Mayfield was good and was going to be the guy, but he's also not here for good reason.
That said, we could be getting similar/equivalent performance from Baker as we are Watson for way way way less. The fact we're even comparing him to Baker at this point is a joke.
First off, Stefanski has YET to call a good game this year. His play calling is all over the place.. We come out 5 wide on the first play and throw a ball to the TE... Second series we run Chubb, pick up 5 yards. Stefanski does not get that the Browns are a running team that sets up the pass.. NOT THE OTHER WAY AROUND.
Second, Watson stunk. Holding the ball too long.. trying to captain run out the pocket or then running the ball too much... This was not a good game and he has to be better than that crap.
Third... Stop rubbing TJ Watts balls!!.. He is lined up on the RT of an offense. This game, he was lined up on a ROOKIE!!!... Just like last year. We are the ONLY TEAM that would leave a rookie on TJ Watt... BTW, lining up against the LT( unless that tackle is Willis) is a HARDER assignment!!.. Thats why LT gets the bigger bucks!
Our offense gave up 14pts.. the D balled out!!... How does Stefanski answer for that?? The offense had 3 fumbles... Watson holds the ball like a loaf of bread... Also, when is someone on the offense going to step up and tell the team we are scoring or just fire the team up???
yeah thats what i feared when I saw that play.. that was more than just tendons the way that bent, Chubb has played his last down I'm afraid. No way you can look at that and tell me it wasn't a cheap hit... Pittsburgh saw what was in store for them tonight and acted.
Where do I start ...there is so much that went wrong. Craziest game I think I have ever watched. Watson isn't worth a fraction of what we gave for him. I think Thompson-Robinson would play better than Watson, but it's kinda hard to bench the guy you gave the world to. You would have to admit you made the worst trade in NFL history.
Injury to Chubb defines the rest of our season. Losing him was big and I swallowed my heart when I saw the injury. It may not only be season ending, it may be career ending since this is the second time for the same knee.
Defense didn't play as good as they did against Cincy which was disappointing. They did keep the Squeelers Offense at bay most of the game but that's not saying much cause the Squeelers offense sucks too. Myles Garrett showed up a couple of times but nothing like I would have expected against a division rival.
Need to contact Hunt ASAP. He is available and knows the system.
I still say Stefanski needs to turn the play calling over to someone else. he is terrible at it.
Two facemask calls against Watson hurt 2 possible game winning drives. Squeelers first defensive TD in the first 10 seconds of the game caused by Watson's crappy throw, if that hadn't have happened, we win the game. Last play of the game was a pass interference that wasn't called. Defender damn near ripped the jersey off but we have come to expect calls like that when playing the squeelers. They get by with a lot when they play anyone in the AFC North.
All in all we didn't play up tp our potential and it's gonna be a long season without Chubb driving the bus.
Browns defense gave up 12 points, by my count (doesn't take into account bad field position).
Steelers had a much better/cognizant game plan than Cinci did. They kept making attempts to run the ball, and Pickett was given pretty easy throws. I'd bet that like half their yardage came off that fluke Pickens TD.
Firstly for Chubb. Secondly because not even I was expecting Watson to continue to be so bad. Thirdly because that suspicion that many of us have had that Stefanski is at the root of our woes seems to be being confirmed.
I typically try not to let our performance affect me, but I couldn't sleep last night. Partially because of how bad I feel for Chubb and partially because of how angry I am at Watson and Stefanski ... just putrid performance from our offense.
Watson is AWFUL. He looks like he either can't read a defense or doesn't trust himself. I've reached red alert level.
We had so many penalties, turnovers, and breakdowns that it basically made it an un-winnable game.
Steelers offense stinks. Our defense is a breath of fresh air.
To me, it feels like this will be a terrible domino effect starting last night.
Kevin looked like a deer in the headlights after the Chubb injury. Very sad and hurt for Chubb, He is Our Franchise player. Watson looked left towards Cooper and Cooper only the majority of the night, Njoku was open for 7 yd completions to his right after chipping Watt on numerous occasions. We need a dedicated punt returner, DPJ has no business being back there, he F’ed up every punt and was clearly not interested in being hit or advancing the ball. He left a lot of yardage out there and put the offense in a more difficult position on the road. Schwartz called a great game on Defense, his players were up to the Challenge and played well enough to win any game.
Stefanski, I don’t know where to begin or end. HORRENDOUS. Haslam needs to tell him to give the play sheet to AVP and let him call the game from the booth. Kevin has proven he can’t manage play calling and HC responsibilities especially in road games. Let AVP do it from the booth where the noise level is less and he has a better view of the game. Kevin’s playcalling cost us big time last night.
Watson better get his crap together soon or it this will go down as the Biggest trade blunder in the 21 st century.
Steeers offense is absolutely putrid. Matt Canada has to go. Pickett isn't very good either. Yikes, what an awful game on both sides. I guess someone had to win, Steelers D and Pickens were the only positive for the Steelers. Sorry Chubb got hurt. Also sorry that Minkah got hurt as well.
Firstly for Chubb. Secondly because not even I was expecting Watson to continue to be so bad. Thirdly because that suspicion that many of us have had that Stefanski is at the root of our woes seems to be being confirmed.
Completely and utterly gutted.
You and I was among the first that immediately questioned both Watson and Stefanski! The signs has been on the wall for years.
I’m honestly surprised about Watson’s steep decline. It’s not only physical but what’s worse is that he seems to lost his drive and self confidence. Paying so much money and draft choices for a character with so much uncertainty is criminal. Both Ski and AB totally lost me in that moment they decided to continue despite they had all the information needed.
I don’t even have to criticize the play offensive calling because we can all see where the problem is.
Nick Chubb! I was almost in tears yesterday because that could be potentially a career ending injury. My prayers to him and his loved ones. I sincerely hope that the attack on his leg was unintentional but I have my doubts.
- Chubb's injury has me sick to my stomach. Plays the game the way it should be played. Great guy, great teammate.
- Growing up in Youngstown, and now in the Columbus area, so I have seen Pittsburgh play for decades. I'll just say that I would not be surprised if that was a deliberate shot at Chubb's knee. Steelers is the Steelers.
- The game went south quickly with Bryant gifting the Pitts defense a TD on the first play from scrimmage. Next target clanked off his hands, too.
- Our D played well again. Only 12 of those points are on them. Pitts basically had one big play the whole game.
- Our OL was bad. Worst job of pass protection I have seen from them in a long time. Callahan should be both embarrassed and pissed.
- As bad as we were on offense, we were in it until the last minute. Which is another way of saying we lost.
- What do we do at RB? Hunt? He did not look the same last year, and is still available for a reason. Call Indy?
There are options but none as good as NC. I would like to trade to get D'earnest Johnson back from the Jags or is the Indy back (Taylor?) or Dalvin Cook available. No way we go without a prime running back. Probably KH is our likely choice....
- Deshaun played horribly. There is no way around that. He looked rattled and lacking confidence in his ability to throw the ball all night long. I don't know how many wide-eyed images they showed during the broadcast, but it felt like a lot. Lots of double clutches and inaccuracy throughout the game. Had some nice back shoulder throws, 3 and X down conversions, and made plays with his legs but those were few and far between. It seemed like he had one read and if he couldn't see it, he was off running. We will not be winning many games with a performance like that. I don't believe Watson forgot to play the game and all of his talent from a few years back simply dissipated, which is why I believe it is (1) all in his head or (2) there is some disconnect between he and Stefanski/playcalling.
- That said, our offensive line was absolutely putrid. Specifically the interior lineman. Watson had very little time to throw and thought they sucked in pass pro and run blocking. Even when Chubb was in, there weren't many open lanes as we normally see and Chubb's vision and strength was really what allowed him to get those tough extra yards. Wills gave you two seconds of solid work and then just stopped his motor (recurring theme). Pocic was perhaps the worst of the five, IMO.. Teller perhaps 2nd. The overall pressure PIT provided up the middle was fast and frequent. Once Chubb went down, I feel like the Steelers DEF blitzed a ton and we had no answer for it. They knew our running game was toast.
- Browns DEF was amazing again. Delpit is emerging as a playmaker and leader. He is everywhere and is so fast to the ball. I really enjoy seeing him play.
- Will be interesting to see the snap count and routes run between the two, but I have no clue why Harrison Bryant is playing over Akins. That first play was all on Bryant as much as Watson had his issues yesterday. Then dropped another later in the game. He can't block worth crap, so if he is not going to elevate the receiving end of the offense, he needs to take a seat.
- I wouldn't be surprised if Chubb's career is essentially over. Maybe I'm being a little overly dramatic but if it is as serious as everyone was making it out to be the recovery time might be over a year and who knows how his body responds. Just terrible for Chubb. Not sure how much he will cost but if this team might want to consider Jonathan Taylor for Week 5.
- Ton of injuries for some of the best Browns talent in Chubb, Ward, Newsome, and even Garrett was hobbling towards the end. Zadarius Smith too. It will be interesting to track these this week.
- I like using Nick Harris on a couple of those goal line plays. He's pretty fast and agile for a lineman. I think we see more of that. It was clever.
- Overall, just a bad loss on a game that felt very winnable with better QB play. Or if Chubb didn't get injured, I think we probably win this game too.
Not going to the 'fire everyone' tone that most people seem to be exhibiting last night and this morning, but I am deflated...no question about that. But this is the NFL and a team can bounce back as quickly as they can lay an egg. It will be interesting to see who is added the running back room.
a thought I had: we were up 22-19 ... would we have been better off just running it literally every play? Essentially forcing them to drive the field and score TWICE to beat us.
I think the only way they do beat us is if we drop back and bring in sack/fumble/INT/etc into the equation
Will be interesting to see the snap count and routes run between the two, but I have no clue why Harrison Bryant is playing over Adkins. That first play was all on Bryant as much as Watson had his issues yesterday. Then dropped another later in the game. He can't block worth crap, so if he is not going to elevate the receiving end of the offense, he needs to take a seat.
I would like to see them move Dewand Jones to LT and replace Wills with Leatherwood off the practice squad or La’el Collins, who the Bengals cut. Berry was foolish to sign Wills to the fifth year option. He is just terrible. If Callahan can’t fix him in four years, he doesn’t belong in the league.
Jones held up as good as we could hope honestly. Our TE play didn't do us many favors last night either
I agree. I thought he arguably played as the best lineman last night. Maybe I'm crazy but it is also indicative of how bad I thought the overall line played.
Everyone poo pooing DW need to realize, if he’s healthy he plays for like the next 4 years. FULLY GUARANTEED.
Yes, I have accepted the fact he is not tradable with a $50 M salary, so I will just be patient and accept what happens. Still live and die on Sunday but I can't switch teams, too old and too much invested.
As a team heavily influenced by analytics I think we should be paying attention to this sort of schtick ... in close games like this I'd think the Head Coach has a major impact on the trend.
As a team heavily influenced by analytics I think we should be paying attention to this sort of schtick ... in close games like this I'd think the Head Coach has a major impact on the trend.
We all know what you can do with analytics. Enough already. Get a football guy leading this team that can actually figure out what is going on ON the field as it happens. Stefanski cannot process what the opposition is doing to his offense. Pittsburgh got more aggressive as the game went on and the dunce behind the menu card had no answers. Zero. Like usual. It's easy to see this guy isn't going to get the job done no matter who is on the roster. He'll be gone at the end of the season if not sooner depending how the offense implodes. Good riddance to bad rubbish. Glad that Schwartz will be able to step right in for 2024.
- Pick 6 on the FIRST play - fumbled ball on 4th and 1 at the 40 - sack/fumble returned for a TD - we are up 3, really driving, get it to 2nd and 2 ... Pocic holding - Watson with TWO personal foul penalties ... and then pushing a ref - DPJ fails to field a punt and loses 30 yards with 8 minutes left
Postgame thoughts from a non-football aficionado. I went to watch the game at the local BB, she stayed home.
"Honey, I'm really sorry, I know that's your favorite player. This sucks, I was practically in tears, he's such a good guy. (Our son) called and told me not to watch it. I saw part of a replay online and turned my head, it looked like that Steeler guy was diving right at his knee."
"That last play is why I hate football. How can those announcers say that wasn't a penalty when the guy has two-fists-full of jersey? That should have been a first down, right?"
"So, this guy that we paid 275 trillion dollars, does he just think this is just a contest to see who can hold the ball the longest? Then he just takes off running and fumbles the ball, what the hell?"
"They looked like crap as well, couldn't move the ball, their defense won the game."
"I'm done. I like going to games with you, I'm not saying I won't go watch a game with you, but I'm checking out. It's been a few years of constantly being aggravated every time I watch a game. There's no sense in it. It's the dumbest sport in the world, 45 million rules and they're all subjective. And the Browns seem like there is always a dark shadow hanging over their team -- I can't do it."
As much as I can go hard in the paint on Stefanski’s play calling after Chubb went down, at the end of the day I’m far more concerned with DW’s pocket awareness right now. All that “he hasn’t played in a min” ended at the start of the season. There were throws with guys wide open he wasn’t hitting, running into sacks, holding the ball like a load of bread, and while I have no sympathy for the Steelers, the face mask penalties by DW were just straight up garbage from him. I’m sure he’s frustrated about the lack of calls he got, but at the end of the day he put us in terrible positions.
The Steelers defense is legit, I’ll give them credit. But what’s also true is that there were a lot of unforced errors by DW, and it’s gotta get cleaned up. Hey it’s only game 2, but with Chubb gone, every game is now a must win.
I'm nowhere near as mad at KS as I am at Watson. There were several times Watson had a guy streaking wide open and either didn't see him or hesitated just enough to give the DB time to make a play. There were additional plays to be made if the ball was on time.
I'm trying to remember back and I don't think there were too many glaring accuracy issues. Balls were generally where they were supposed to be, within reason (nobody goes 30/30 or whatever). What I saw was mostly timing and decisiveness issues... which is the same issue we were having with Baker last year.
The one thing I will say about Stefanski is this... if there was ever a time to make good on the "we adapt our systems to the strengths of our players" shtick, it's now. There is absolutely 0 excuse to not have Watson in the gun on basically every play (exaggeration to make a point). This offense was going to live or die based on Watson's play and now our best player is out. Getting Watson completely comfy with the offense is now the entirety of the work they have to do.
Our Oline has had better games, but I'm not worried just yet. Steelers still have talent up front and they know how to scheme up pressure with their guys.
I think Njoku's game was largely dictated by our focusing on Watt. I saw him helping/chipping a lot. We were also using different personnel (Harris and Dunn got quite a few snaps). I think Watson is having issues throwing to the middle of the field. I felt like he was trying to get Moore going. Very little being thrown DPJ's way.
Steelers D and team overall are just average. They got one player, Watt. Competent QB play and we blow them out. Steelers will be lucky to win 6 games this year. The D looked lights out because Watson is so below the average line he can't see it.
Watson has almost no accuracy, his ball placement sucks, (10 yards out of bounds on a 4th down play with the game on the line, shades of Charlie Fry) and it looks like reading a defense is a foreign language. His pocket awareness is appalling. Last year, after sitting out for a couple years, some of his problems could be understandable, but right now he shows zero ability to play the position.
The Browns staff has done him no favors with their play calling. Where were the screens and quick hitters to slow down the Steelers pass rush? There were a lot of things they could have done to help a struggling QB, but they didn't.
Steeers offense is absolutely putrid. Matt Canada has to go. Pickett isn't very good either. Yikes, what an awful game on both sides. I guess someone had to win, Steelers D and Pickens were the only positive for the Steelers. Sorry Chubb got hurt. Also sorry that Minkah got hurt as well.
Minkah? Don't be ridiculous. Typical steeler trash player. The NFL doesn't care about running backs - so there will be no consequences - but no one can tell me that hit was a clean play. That guy just ended one of the most beloved cleveland browns career by taking out his knee.
I've only reviewed a few plays and I'm left just shaking my head and wondering..WHY?
The interception for the Stoolies first TD...what the hell are the Browns doing running a pass play in the flat with two Browns TEs running patterns within approx 5yds from each other?
What could go wrong?
First, one Steeler defender is close enough to the Browns #88 and #84 TEs to cover both of them. ...the pass hits Bryant in the hands and he fails to catch the ball...that should have ended the play..inc. pass. ...BUT, because the Stoolies have another defender in the same area, covering our #88, Akins (who is within 5 yds of our #88 Bryant)...after the ball goes through Bryants hands the DB attempts the int but tips the ball to his teammate LB, who was originally covering Bryant and just like that, the Browns hand the Stoolers a pick 6. ...EVEN if Bryant catches the ball cleanly, due to the Browns poor play design, the Stoolies had two defenders ready to tackle Bryant for little or no gain.
It's simply a very poor play design that illustrates what could go wrong with such a play design.
I'll just say this... I'm willing to bet Patriots fans felt the same way when TJ Ward shredded Gronk's knee on that open-field tackle. Chubb has made Minkah look pretty foolish a couple of times, and he prolly felt going low was his only choice. Trouble was the leg was planted on a bang-bang play.
We have no response to losing Chubb, physically or emotionally. He was the heartbeat of this team. We currently have no replacement on the roster and Hunt is not coming. The team has moved on from him for whatever reason. Even if they brought him in, who knows what kind of shape he's in? Obviously Kelly will come off the practice squad. I bet that's it. Hopefully Chubb has been smart with his money and he'll be ok but he won't ever be in a backfield ever again.
Stefanski continues to distinguish himself as a terrible game caller. After a game, how many times are you going to admit that you sucked at calling a game? He is terrible and with Schwartz in the building, I see his seat getting very hot very soon.
We are now in a position where we are asking Deshawn Watson to save our season. That's not ever going to work. You don't go through the stuff he's gone through in the last few years and not be changed. I feel like he is who he is now and we need to accept that. We made the worst trade in the history of the NFL and we need to accept that and move on. The clear winner here is of course Watson, who basically just stole a quarter of a billion dollars from the dullard in the club. He is not a smart QB. He is a playground playmaker and doesn't appear to have the mental capacity to operate an NFL offense. It's ok to BE wrong. It's not OK to STAY wrong. His comically ridiculous contract will ensure that this team rolls him out there game after game, but this guy will NEVER be the QB that moved heaven and earth to acquire.
This one hurts. More than anything the major injury to Chubb by far hurts the most. And not just for the team or his season, but because he has been and was the heart of this offense. He is the kind of person as well as player that you can't help but love. So yeah, this one REALLY hurts! Losing to a mediocre team who is also a division rival is bad, but a team can recover from a loss like that. They can't recover from a loss like Chubb. There is no Nick Chubb out there to sign. I was worried that if watson didn't improve we would be a one dimensional offense having to rely on Chubb. Now if watson doesn't improve the Browns are a zero dimensional offense. The outlook for this season just took a 180.
I'm still not sure what the problem was in the disconnect between watson and Bryant. It seemed obvious to me that watson was expecting Bryant to sit down in the gap of that zone and Bryant continued his route. That appeared to be why on at least two occasions I saw the passes were behind Bryant. It also led to an int.
I'm not going to bag on watson's performance overall. Enough people have seemed to have gotten a firm grasp on the obvious in that department. But those two face mask penalties are 100% is his control and there is no excuse for that. People can say what they will about the OL but when you lose Chubb and are one dimensional I'm not sure what anyone expected. Before Chubb was injured he had 61 yards on 10 attempts. Just over 6 ypc.
The D gave up a total of 12 points. If you can't win that game you probably aren't going to win many. The loss of Chubb will most likely make this a long season. And not in good way.
ANY and ALL thoughts of trotting out this sentence need to be shut down. If he isn't "up to speed" it is because he doesn't have that speed to get to. He has been here for like 18 months; there is NO EXCUSE.
23 seconds to go in the 1st qtr, Browns have the ball 4th down with 1 foot needed for a 1st down, ball on the 43 yd line...Stools leading 7-3.
#1 PRIORITY for the Browns should be...get the first down.
What does Stefanski call...a QB option play...
RESULT= Browns QB, Watson keeps the ball and dives in an attempt to pick up the 12 inches needed for the 1st down..and Watson FUMBLES the ball, with the Stools recovering...1st down Pitt going the other way...STUPID, STUPID, STUPID FREAKING FOOTBALL BY STEFANSKI.
No one can fix STEFANSKI's STUPID football calls but Stefanski...
The correct play call should have been Watson on a QB sneak behind Pocic and All Pro Guard Bitonio
Why do the Browns have to pretend that they are just the smartest coaches in the NFL, especially the offense...taking UNNECESSARY RISKS when the goal is to make a 1st down (in this case).
We needed 12 inches and what does Stefanski do...he calls the triple option and hands the ball back to the Steelers.
Browns fans can't fix STUPID...in cases like this, only Stefanski can fix himself and the Browns offense.
ANY and ALL thoughts of trotting out this sentence need to be shut down. If he isn't "up to speed" it is because he doesn't have that speed to get to. He has been here for like 18 months; there is NO EXCUSE.
100%
At what point will he be considered to be "up to speed?" He has lived on the practice field for the last 18 months. If he isn't up to speed by now, he ain't getting there. He is now what he will be. He is fully formed. And I believe his fully formed self is a comically over-rated QB with above average skills and that's it. He's not smart enough to be a great QB. His tenure will go down as the least popular, biggest bust, most soul crushing QB eras since we came back to Cleveland.
ANY and ALL thoughts of trotting out this sentence need to be shut down. If he isn't "up to speed" it is because he doesn't have that speed to get to. He has been here for like 18 months; there is NO EXCUSE.
Thanks for verbalizing this. I've read all sorts of comments all over the internet suggesting Watson is going to get better and "be himself" again and that somehow he's still adjusting.... But truth is just what you wrote. It's a bitter pill to swallow for any Browns fan since this level of performance is so astranomically short of any anticipated level anyone could have predicted
I just wanted to add, although it may not be popular. I wanted to thank the Steeler fans who showed a lot of class after the injury to Chubb. They chanted his name and gave him a huge round of applause when he was carted off the field. That's something they didn't have to do. I've rarely felt the need to thank Steeler fans for being classy but in this case they were and I for one appreciated it.
D played good. Watt>>>>Garrett. Bryant needs cut. Delpit played a helluva ballgame.
How do you slow down a pass rush? Help your tackles with a TE or RB. Screen plays, think we had zero. Draw plays, think we ran zero. Quick slants to wr’s, think we ran zero. Jet sweeps, think we ran zero. I blame this all on Stefanski. AVP needs to take over play calling, Stefanski isnt giving it up, it will have to be taken.
Watson needs to play better, 5 balls at least thrown out of bounds not giving the WR’s even a chance to make the catch, even though a few were close.
Goodwin needs to go, the only time he comes on the field, the D knows we are throwing it deep. Cooper played good. Thought Bell played good. DPJ not a factor. Tillman wasnt even targeted.
D Hopkins 2-3 on FG’s. Making that 55-56 yard FG surprised me.
As for a new RB, there are a few choices:
J Taylor - very unlikely M Carter - could probably get for cheap R Penny - also could get for cheap C Akers - cheap as well, but no thanks, malcontent winning a SB, imagine him here L Fournette - FA, my fave to add K Hunt - not sure, but I think he burnt bridges here
ANY and ALL thoughts of trotting out this sentence need to be shut down. If he isn't "up to speed" it is because he doesn't have that speed to get to. He has been here for like 18 months; there is NO EXCUSE.
1. His receivers aren't getting open. 2. Receivers are running the wrong routes. 3. OL sucks. 4. Bad playcalling. 5. Stubbed his toe. 6. Fans hurt his feelings.
I've heard these things mentioned before for a guy who had been here four years.
We have no response to losing Chubb, physically or emotionally. He was the heartbeat of this team. We currently have no replacement on the roster and Hunt is not coming. The team has moved on from him for whatever reason. Even if they brought him in, who knows what kind of shape he's in? Obviously Kelly will come off the practice squad. I bet that's it. Hopefully Chubb has been smart with his money and he'll be ok but he won't ever be in a backfield ever again.
Stefanski continues to distinguish himself as a terrible game caller. After a game, how many times are you going to admit that you sucked at calling a game? He is terrible and with Schwartz in the building, I see his seat getting very hot very soon.
We are now in a position where we are asking Deshawn Watson to save our season. That's not ever going to work. You don't go through the stuff he's gone through in the last few years and not be changed. I feel like he is who he is now and we need to accept that. We made the worst trade in the history of the NFL and we need to accept that and move on. The clear winner here is of course Watson, who basically just stole a quarter of a billion dollars from the dullard in the club. He is not a smart QB. He is a playground playmaker and doesn't appear to have the mental capacity to operate an NFL offense. It's ok to BE wrong. It's not OK to STAY wrong. His comically ridiculous contract will ensure that this team rolls him out there game after game, but this guy will NEVER be the QB that moved heaven and earth to acquire.
Dark times here, gang.
I know it was a nasty injury, but Chubb will most likely be back. Science these days has progressed surgeries so much that it is possible to make full recoveries from that. Crazy, but he has already done it once. A lot will be mental, but again, I wouldn't bet against Chubb there either.
The rest I mostly agree with. Watson used to be a top 5 QB in Houston. Given the circumstances of the last few years, that has changed dramatically. He has the panicked, deer in the headlights look most of the time now, and tries to scramble away from pressure that isn't there half the time. He need to regroup quickly, or it's just another wasted trade/pick/QB.
Another concern I have is that Watt said last night on the scoop and score fumble, that they knew EXACTLY what play we were going to run. Given that we revamped our offense int he offseason and played 1 game, how is that possible? Are we telegraphing our calls that easily?
Ward lowered his shoulder. Minkah left his feet and became a projectile. Big difference.
I disagree that there's a significant difference (just rewatched the Ward hit), but I really have no interest in defending Minkah. I think both plays similarly show a carelessness with tackling that's present (and has been present) throughout the league. I think, other than the Steelers featuring players who love to spear, there's not a lot in Minkah's hit that points to mal-intent.
After Nick went down. I lost interest in the game. It really hurts to see a player of his quality get hurt like that. I feel terrible for Nick. I feel like what the Jets fans must feel.
NFL football almost seems more about injuries than anything else. Rosters are made. Camps begin. And from that point on how your team fares with injuries probably has more to do with your record than any other factor.
The game? The formula to lose a game you should win was on full display. Turn it over and give the game away.
There were plays I was shaking my head at. Not understanding the play designs as part of the game plan.
DW did not protect the ball. He also showed weakness of character while under stress. The face mask penalties were uncalled for. Instead of showing calm leadership under fire. He let his emotions rule.
He has a lot to work on. The Browns offense has to be way better.
The defense outside of the score by Pickens was fantastic. Jim Schwartz has done wonders.
More than anything I am deflated. Lost my desire to care. I keep seeing Nick on a stretcher.
Stefanski and AVP are facing a new world. They need to watch what Mike McDaniel is doing.
I’m mad at Ski. He scapegoated Baker, playing him injured, then sold him out. Ski can suck it. He’s a bad play calling HC, period. Play calling needs to be turned over to somebody more competent. But don’t worry friends, at this pace we’ll have a new HC next year.
ANY and ALL thoughts of trotting out this sentence need to be shut down. If he isn't "up to speed" it is because he doesn't have that speed to get to. He has been here for like 18 months; there is NO EXCUSE.
1. His receivers aren't getting open. 2. Receivers are running the wrong routes. 3. OL sucks. 4. Bad playcalling. 5. Stubbed his toe. 6. Fans hurt his feelings.
I've heard these things mentioned before for a guy who had been here four years.
That's fine; absolutely none of that invalidates what I wrote in any way.
My day yesterday: Left at 3:30 to drive my daughter's car back to her (it's had some issues - and those were fixed) to pick her up in Perrysburg so we could go up to Monroe Michigan. Chevy dealer had the exact same vehicle she had ordered. (only 1 in a 10 state area, apparently) But, due to the uaw strike, who knows when it would be made.
Got her, drove up. It took 3 hours at the dealership, but Sooga drove to her house in her brand new vehicle. Good news. I went because, well, I have a lot of experience in the car business.
Wife wanted to eat somewhere. Oh geesh, really? The Browns are on at 8:15!!! Long story short, we got home about 10. I had the game recording. Started watching when we got home. As you all saw, FIRST offensive play, pick 6. I blame Watson - but who knows.
Recap: Pick 6, fumble for a touch down, the stupid penalties on Watson, shoving a ref? He should have been ejected for that, truthfully. Terrible throws, just..............230 million doesn't buy what it used to I guess.
And Chubb - as all of you are as well - that one just hurts. I won't say more.
Play of the game: The fumble on the steelers, we pick it up, get hit from behind, fumble it again, bounces off a steeler, then a brown, and goes out of bounds. Benny Hill's theme music was going through my head.
Terrible qb play. D did okay. Without Chubb, we're lucky to see .500 this season.
At least my daughter got a new car.
I may not care on the Sundays when the Browns aren't on t.v. here.
Bryant tipping a pass up in the air TWICE. On the play you mentioned, it didn't bounce off our Dlineman on the fumble return... he full on tossed it in the air as he was going down. We got extremely lucky it ended up going out of bounds. Everyone was fumbling. I think the Pickens TD was a communication breakdown from our secondary. Their #1 was WIDE open with a clear run to the EZ.
No they weren't. Everyone else is wrong but watson. Only he is the beacon of what's right. It's kind of been the theme around here since the browns first signed him.
ANY and ALL thoughts of trotting out this sentence need to be shut down. If he isn't "up to speed" it is because he doesn't have that speed to get to. He has been here for like 18 months; there is NO EXCUSE.
1. His receivers aren't getting open. 2. Receivers are running the wrong routes. 3. OL sucks. 4. Bad playcalling. 5. Stubbed his toe. 6. Fans hurt his feelings.
I've heard these things mentioned before for a guy who had been here four years.
That's fine; absolutely none of that invalidates what I wrote in any way.
I agree with you.
I just find it funny. Baker was given every chance to be here. Through immaturity, poor play, poor leadership, and a so so work ethic he played his way off the team. He is on his fourth, yes fourth, team in a calendar year, and we still have people pining for him and blaming Stefanski for why he's not on the team. While he was here, those excuses were made over and over for him. Now 8 games into Watson's tenure and no excuses are allowed for him. It's just funny.
Steeers offense is absolutely putrid. Matt Canada has to go. Pickett isn't very good either. Yikes, what an awful game on both sides. I guess someone had to win, Steelers D and Pickens were the only positive for the Steelers. Sorry Chubb got hurt. Also sorry that Minkah got hurt as well.
Minkah? Don't be ridiculous. Typical steeler trash player. The NFL doesn't care about running backs - so there will be no consequences - but no one can tell me that hit was a clean play. That guy just ended one of the most beloved cleveland browns career by taking out his knee.
Screw Minkah.
He was going low against a big back. No other way to tackle him. I don't think it was dirty. That is how a smaller DB is supposed to tackle a big back.
ANY and ALL thoughts of trotting out this sentence need to be shut down. If he isn't "up to speed" it is because he doesn't have that speed to get to. He has been here for like 18 months; there is NO EXCUSE.
1. His receivers aren't getting open. 2. Receivers are running the wrong routes. 3. OL sucks. 4. Bad playcalling. 5. Stubbed his toe. 6. Fans hurt his feelings.
I've heard these things mentioned before for a guy who had been here four years.
That's fine; absolutely none of that invalidates what I wrote in any way.
I agree with you.
I just find it funny. Baker was given every chance to be here. Through immaturity, poor play, poor leadership, and a so so work ethic he played his way off the team. He is on his fourth, yes fourth, team in a calendar year, and we still have people pining for him and blaming Stefanski for why he's not on the team. While he was here, those excuses were made over and over for him. Now 8 games into Watson's tenure and no excuses are allowed for him. It's just funny.
Watson is terrible. No two ways around it.
Give me some DTR!
lol.
Whether or not we think we've seen enough of this very unlikeable football player, after all that money, the team is gonna give this every chance to work. Before they admit to and act on the the statement "we're acknowledging that we ran straight into the worst contract in NFL history that confirms that we are, and will forever be, the most laughable organization in the history of organized sports for the rest of eternity," I think they're gonna hold off on DTR.
Let me know when Baker gets a 230 million dollar guaranteed contract and three first round draft choices paid to acquire him. And pretend his supporting cast was as good as this. You're trying to compare apples to oranges and you know it.
Baker will never be anything but average at best. watson was supposed to be MUCH more than that. Right now I would have been happy with average from watson. And that would still be paying one helluva price tag for average.
A car that costs 30k isn't supposed to be the same as a car that costs 100k. At least not in the real world.
This was the Browns chance to shake the same old browns mantra. I said all week if we can win this game we can start to believe that we will win a lot of games that we have found ways to lose in the past.
Well we definitely Brownsed that game.
Going on year 3 of the same issues. Except there is no scapegoat.
It was discussed often last season that Stefanski must be better. He has been bad.
The offense was offensive last night. At any point could we move the pocket or try play action to get Watson out of an ever collapsing pocket. Crazy because 4 years ago it was a staple of the offense.
This was the Browns chance to shake the same old browns mantra. I said all week if we can win this game we can start to believe that we will win a lot of games that we have found ways to lose in the past.
Well we definitely Brownsed that game.
Going on year 3 of the same issues. Except there is no scapegoat.
It was discussed often last season that Stefanski must be better. He has been bad.
The offense was offensive last night. At any point could we move the pocket or try play action to get Watson out of an ever collapsing pocket. Crazy because 4 years ago it was a staple of the offense.
It's two games in to the season. I think there is some overreaction in here, and I include myself, at least last night when watching the game.
I think a big part of the frustration is Chubb getting hurt. Folks, I think we all need to understand that Nick is going to be lucky to walk right again, let alone play football. That knee was already reconstructed when he was at Georgia. Injury and age have finally caught him.
Let me know when Baker gets a 230 million dollar guaranteed contract and three first round draft choices paid to acquire him. And pretend his supporting cast was as good as this. You're trying to compare apples to oranges and you know it.
Baker will never be anything but average at best. watson was supposed to be MUCH more than that. Right now I would have been happy with average from watson. And that would still be paying one helluva price tag for average.
A car that costs 30k isn't supposed to be the same as a car that costs 100k. At least not in the real world.
Baker has played a couple of dogs, too.
Lets not crown him the greatest QB in TB history just yet.
Brown’s finding ways to lose. Continues to happen.
New players new coaches same results.
I don’t feel anything I said was an overreaction. KS has continued to get worse each year. Granted it is early but the offense is his. It should not look like a dumpster fire.
It's two games in to the season. I think there is some overreaction in here, and I include myself, at least last night when watching the game.
I think a big part of the frustration is Chubb getting hurt. Folks, I think we all need to understand that Nick is going to be lucky to walk right again, let alone play football. That knee was already reconstructed when he was at Georgia. Injury and age have finally caught him.
My biggest frustration was the Browns losing to the Steelers on Monday night football
It was a chance to show the football world that the Browns are better
They blew it ! I also tell myself reality is the Browns were not going to win 17 games
There were going to be loses, just this one really sucked in many ways
1-1 is better than 0-2 especially against two divisional teams
The Bengals started off 0-2 last season, look how that ended for them
Brown’s finding ways to lose. Continues to happen.
New players new coaches same results.
I don’t feel anything I said was an overreaction. KS has continued to get worse each year. Granted it is early but the offense is his. It should not look like a dumpster fire.
At some point, if I'm Haslam and I'm spending all this money to watch my coach declare after every game that he has to do better, I'm gonna walk into his office and demand that AVP calls the plays. How many times do we have to watch this guy "out-think" himself into a ditch?
It’s possible. There’s so many different ways to look at it.
Baker at this point of his career is playing with house money. Nobody expects anything out of Tampa this year so anything above bad is gonna be celebrated.
This is Watson first full season being back, just lost THE best RB in the nfl, and everybody from the opponent to the fans in the stands are coming for his neck verbally. You could see it in the 2nd half, looked like a whole lot of pinned up frustration was unleashed on the field.
Let’s be clear; all that negative energy is his fault and he is responsible for rising through that and doing his job. But it’s still negative energy that is effecting him.
And while it’s fair or not, the only QB that is playing what he’s worth in our division is Lamar Jackson. He’s got two straight home games before a bye to gain some momentum.
The talent is flashing like crazy. Now it’s just him working back to sustaining great play throughout the game.
It’s only week 2, and we’re 1-1. We gotta remember that sometimes nfl defenses just have their night.
Let me know when Baker gets a 230 million dollar guaranteed contract and three first round draft choices paid to acquire him. And pretend his supporting cast was as good as this. You're trying to compare apples to oranges and you know it.
Baker will never be anything but average at best. watson was supposed to be MUCH more than that. Right now I would have been happy with average from watson. And that would still be paying one helluva price tag for average.
A car that costs 30k isn't supposed to be the same as a car that costs 100k. At least not in the real world.
I know it's early in the season but I may be jumping onto your bandwagon... last night was pathetic... especially considering the price tag... if Watson would have been average, decent, safe last night we win...
Watson is definitely part of our struggles right now, but I can’t help but look at Ski for the consistent losing. BB would love to have this team, and would probably go straight to the SB this season. Ski looked like a deer in the headlights after Chubb went down last night.
There’s two trains of thought, one is this is the most talented team since the return and stefanski is holding them back, or two stefanski still don’t have the players on offense he needs. To me, it’s def the first one. What I don’t understand is how he still has playcalling duties . At minimum try something different there
Watson is definitely part of our struggles right now, but I can’t help but look at Ski for the consistent losing. BB would love to have this team, and would probably go straight to the SB this season. Ski looked like a deer in the headlights after Chubb went down last night.
Stefanski has had an embarrassment of riches the last 4 seasons, and he just doesn't win.
He. Doesn't. Win. He doesn't produce results.
Have we ever looked at a game and walked away saying 'man, our coach out coached their coach'? He was in his basement for the Browns biggest win of his tenure. I would say last week was probably the second biggest win of his tenure and all the credit for that one goes to Schwartz. He seems to have Cincy's number, but he really has no signature wins if he isn't playing Cincy. What are his signature wins? Has he gotten better every year? Or worse?
The fact that the public is hammering the Titans is a true reflection of the reputation of the Browns and their culture and their coach and their QB. The Browns were clearly the more talented team than Pitt last night by a mile. Pitt has one good player, Watt, and a bunch of jags. It will be even more one-sided on paper against the Titans, but the general public is saying I don't trust the Browns organization.
If we lose against the Titans, that will be as damning of Stefanski as it can get.
No one has ever done less with more in the history of the NFL. Coaches would kill for his rosters. Two years in a row he should have started the season 2-0 and his teams snatch defeat from the jaws of victory in week 2. I don't think I've ever gotten over last year's week 2 defeat. Never seen anything like it.
What we are seeing is that Stefanski is not a head coach. If you listen to his presser, he does not know how to motivate this team. Hell, he cannot even motivate the offense!! You can not look at our defense and not see how motivated they are! Schwartz has the D playing hard and flying around. Can you look at our offense and see any of fire in the offense. Stefanski is buried in his play sheet and does not see how the team might need some pick up, might need to attack( on offense).
Kevin can call plays, but can he call a good, flowing game?
The fact that the public is hammering the Titans is a true reflection of the reputation of the Browns and their culture and their coach and their QB. The Browns were clearly the more talented team than Pitt last night by a mile. Pitt has one good player, Watt, and a bunch of jags. It will be even more one-sided on paper against the Titans, but the general public is saying I don't trust the Browns organization.
If we lose against the Titans, that will be as damning of Stefanski as it can get.
No one has ever done less with more in the history of the NFL. Coaches would kill for his rosters. Two years in a row he should have started the season 2-0 and his teams snatch defeat from the jaws of victory in week 2. I don't think I've ever gotten over last year's week 2 defeat. Never seen anything like it.
If the offense can not find consistency and control games we should win by multiple scores, Stefanski will probably be let go by game 8. Through 2 games he looks as if he continues to slide in the wrong direction.
I believe most of us would love to see improvement from him as a leader HC and as a play caller OC. But after 3+ years I do not think he makes the proper adjustments to lead us to the Championship.
I will say his seat definitely heated up Monday night. This Sunday is a huge game for KS. At this point with this roster squeaking out wins does not cut it. Stop finding/ creating ways to lose and start dominating.
I don’t expect us to go 16-1. But I do expect us to win games like Monday that we gave away. Those losses can not happen if KS wants to stick around.
As a beaten Browns fan, it is hard to give Stefanski the benefit of the doubt after watching the past 36 games.
I have supported Stefanski more than most, but even I'm at the end of my rope. As Rish said, we simply don't win (and we have talent, have spent money, hired new dudes, etc). There is literally zero excuse for the performance we saw on Monday. This team should be a playoff team/contender.
There’s two trains of thought, one is this is the most talented team since the return and stefanski is holding them back, or two stefanski still don’t have the players on offense he needs. To me, it’s def the first one. What I don’t understand is how he still has playcalling duties . At minimum try something different there
In the end, I don't think play calling is a big issue. For the most part, I don't think plays fail because of the play called. That said I think he should give it up because it consumes too much of his thought focus.Some coaches have made it work, but they are for the most part experienced coaches. I feel the coach needs to have a overall grasp of what is happening in the game.
That doesn't mean he can't say lets run this or it's time for a deep shot, or it's time to send a few more to create some pressure on the QB. I just think the coach needs to be somewhat neutral and spend some time with the units as necessary. The best time to go in with the DC and talk to the D is when you have the ball.
The head coach is the CEO on game day. The CEO has to have an overall grasp of the company. They can't be tied down running the sales or marketing division on a daily basis. Their involvement may be needed in engineering, finance, shareholder issues, etc.
It isn't an easy job and Stefanski isn't watching over the house as closely as he could or should.
I am not saying he should be fired. I am saying he doesn't need to be a glorified offensive coordinator just like a CEO isn't the VP running some division of a company. You let the XVP run that.
The fact that the public is hammering the Titans is a true reflection of the reputation of the Browns and their culture and their coach and their QB. The Browns were clearly the more talented team than Pitt last night by a mile. Pitt has one good player, Watt, and a bunch of jags. It will be even more one-sided on paper against the Titans, but the general public is saying I don't trust the Browns organization.
If we lose against the Titans, that will be as damning of Stefanski as it can get.
No one has ever done less with more in the history of the NFL. Coaches would kill for his rosters. Two years in a row he should have started the season 2-0 and his teams snatch defeat from the jaws of victory in week 2. I don't think I've ever gotten over last year's week 2 defeat. Never seen anything like it.
What we are seeing is that Stefanski is not a head coach. If you listen to his presser, he does not know how to motivate this team. Hell, he cannot even motivate the offense!! You can not look at our defense and not see how motivated they are! Schwartz has the D playing hard and flying around. Can you look at our offense and see any of fire in the offense. Stefanski is buried in his play sheet and does not see how the team might need some pick up, might need to attack( on offense).
Kevin can call plays, but can he call a good, flowing game?
KS gets all this heat for his playcalling, and I don't get it. Granted, I'm not the most knowledgeable, but watching last game I saw only a couple weird playcalls and a whole bunch of bad execution. But KS will continue to take heat for this.
What he's not taking as much heat for (at least not as much as he should, IMO) is the lack of discipline and composure on his side of the ball. For a while it looked like nobody could hold onto a ball. The QB is not only playing poorly, but also being an idiot. The offense got scored on more than the D. All together, those are strong indicators of a leadership issue, but we instead like to pick him apart for a 4th down call.
I can't remember a time when a play caller be it the head coach or the OC who was not second guessed.
From Bruce Arians to Freddy Kitchens it makes no difference. People are going to disagree with plays that are called.
My issue at his time is not the plays called. It is the plays.
I have been paying attention to the offense of Mike McDaniel of the Dolphins. Tua is a limited passer. He struggles with certain type throws like deep outs. He does not have a strong arm. However, he is accurate. He is really good underneath. He is accurate on cross routes, and seam throws. Throws that require anticipation and timing.
McDaniel's offense is all about timing. Routes times to qb steps. Throw the ball before open. Anticipate open.
This off season reports were that the offense was going to be DW offense. Throws he likes. DW was going to have a say. He and KS were developing plays based upon his skills. The throws I see now are open throws where the receiver is in a zone soft spot. I don't see timing throws in rhythm.
DW is breaking from the pocket and looking to find guys that are open. I do not see how that is an offense.
Now Nick Chubb is gone. Ford is ok. He is not Nick Chubb. The offense will have to depend more on passing.
The OL gets in stress mode trying to block while DW is holding the ball. That is going to be an issue. The scheme will need to be notched up in speed. Three and five step drops timed to route trees. Get the ball out in rhythm and on time.
If we do not start seeing this the offense will continue to struggle.
My opinion is the play calling wasn’t the issue. If anything it was minimal issue. All coaches tend to make a few questionable calls during the game. I would love to see the full field view to get a better understanding of the spacing the receivers had during the plays.
I have one gripe over the play calling. Some games Ski tends to forget what has worked for him in the past that can be beneficial to DW. The screen passes to the RBs, TE,and WRs. The Steelers were coming in fast and DW was having trouble believing what he was seeing out there (him patting the ball so much). Slow down that rush and build some confidence in your QB (and receivers) by giving him some high percentage and quick react throws. DW looks like he’s overthinking and not confident in his decisions.
What I thought were offensive issues for the game:
I think it was Memphis that brought it up and I saw it too. DW definitely doesn’t have a feel for the game right now. DW gets pressure and he puts his head down and takes off. I am not seeing much of him looking down field while scrambling.That is something he wouldn’t do in the past. That is usually what a rookie does when they’re overwhelmed with the speed of the game.
This is why I had minimal issues with the play call: - Penalties, penalties, penalties. I felt our drives consisted of either a turnover by a player not securing the ball. Or the big thing we would have a decent drive going then there would be a holding, then a false start. We would be on their side of the field 1st and 10 to pushing ourselves back to our side of the field with 3rd and forever then having to punt. It’s hard to get any momentum when you are shooting yourself in the foot over and over.
The starting of our field position wasn’t great, but that’s part of the game. However, DPJ HAS to catch that punt. Letting that punt bounce all the way inside the 5 was unacceptable. It changed the upcoming drive dramatically. My only thing I can come up with is either the wind was blowing it all around or he lost it in the lights and didn’t want to take a chance on dropping it. Either way he still needs to catch that.
The fact that the public is hammering the Titans is a true reflection of the reputation of the Browns and their culture and their coach and their QB. The Browns were clearly the more talented team than Pitt last night by a mile. Pitt has one good player, Watt, and a bunch of jags. It will be even more one-sided on paper against the Titans, but the general public is saying I don't trust the Browns organization.
If we lose against the Titans, that will be as damning of Stefanski as it can get.
No one has ever done less with more in the history of the NFL. Coaches would kill for his rosters. Two years in a row he should have started the season 2-0 and his teams snatch defeat from the jaws of victory in week 2. I don't think I've ever gotten over last year's week 2 defeat. Never seen anything like it.
I think we get too cute at times ... short yardage, goal line stuff we are going to east/west. I also think we kill our own momentum sometimes with wacky play calling.
That 4th down option run wasn’t an issue. DW had the first down. The issue is the player securing the damn ball. He secures the ball, that play isn’t even talked about after the game.
2nd and 10. Bengals 13. No TOs. 17 seconds before the half.
Stefanski calls a Watson run, Watson scores.
Across the gameday forum, Twitter and every barstool... "Great play call!!"
If Watson doesn't score (even if he gains a 1st down)... we're racing to the line to down the ball and sending in the kicker, and then we would have heard...
"That's the dumbest play call I've ever seen." "You can't run the ball there with no TOs." "Now we have to settle for 3 because Stefanski doesn't know how to read a clock."
And then one of my favorites, with the ironic hindsight built in... "If you're just going to settle for 3 anyway, at least don't flush a play down the toilet... Stupid!!"
Every play ever called is the best and worst of all time -- depending on the result.
The fact that the public is hammering the Titans is a true reflection of the reputation of the Browns and their culture and their coach and their QB. The Browns were clearly the more talented team than Pitt last night by a mile. Pitt has one good player, Watt, and a bunch of jags. It will be even more one-sided on paper against the Titans, but the general public is saying I don't trust the Browns organization.
If we lose against the Titans, that will be as damning of Stefanski as it can get.
No one has ever done less with more in the history of the NFL. Coaches would kill for his rosters. Two years in a row he should have started the season 2-0 and his teams snatch defeat from the jaws of victory in week 2. I don't think I've ever gotten over last year's week 2 defeat. Never seen anything like it.
The fact that the public is hammering the Titans is a true reflection of the reputation of the Browns and their culture and their coach and their QB. The Browns were clearly the more talented team than Pitt last night by a mile. Pitt has one good player, Watt, and a bunch of jags. It will be even more one-sided on paper against the Titans, but the general public is saying I don't trust the Browns organization.
If we lose against the Titans, that will be as damning of Stefanski as it can get.
No one has ever done less with more in the history of the NFL. Coaches would kill for his rosters. Two years in a row he should have started the season 2-0 and his teams snatch defeat from the jaws of victory in week 2. I don't think I've ever gotten over last year's week 2 defeat. Never seen anything like it.
Just. Win. Games.
Last week it was the other way around.
Fade the public!
The public doesn't have a vested interest in this team. They have no reason to be anything other than objective. Especially when they're putting their money on the line. They witnessed how watson played and they know our O runs through Chubb. They now know that as it stands they certainly know there is no Chubb and they aren't going to put their money on watson. I'd love to know who could blame them?
The only hope is the Browns D holds them to like 12 point as they did against Pittsburgh and the O doesn't gift them 14 points.
"Worst trade in Browns history" Also in our first weeks with DW we were told how amazing he was in reading the D and adapting to our play book. Ergo Stefanski RUINS QBs or we were flat out lied to. Probably both. I said Stefanski sucks for orchestrating the "Worst Trade" Berry went out and did what he was told to...get DW at all cost.
Honestly my issues with DW was with character issues I didn't expect him to be that fundementallly bad. I did say what bothered me was the fact in that great 2020 season he was 4-12 something was wrong with that.
Baker as I said needed to heal it was Stefanski trying to force Baker and probably Watson to play the way he wants and not having the playbook geared for their positives.
First round picks sorely missed. That first one would have been Jordan Davis DT don't know about the others. Yeah Berry did a hell of a job with FAs but without that DW contract we would have have even more money for Berry to do his thing plus the draft picks.
Stefanski I knew sucked the surprise in my claim is how bad DW is never in my wildest dreams. Dont wish to say I told you so...but I TOLD YOU SO.
Hey there is time to turn this around. Chubb best in the business but honestly RBs can be gotten anywhere - do our work and steal from somebodies practice squad. We can get around the loss of Chubb but not the ineptitue of Watson and Stefanski!
We can get around the loss of Chubb but not the ineptitude of Watson and Stefanski!
Sorry EO but Stefanski isn't going magically turn into someone who knows what to do on game day. His initial plan may be successful but once the opponent adjusts, he has ZERO answers. He has ZERO feel for what is going on in front of him. Compounded by the fact that he is not a leader, the Browns aren't going anywhere with him in charge. Schwartz is the man. The sooner, the better. JMO
I should have been drunk Monday night. Even if we’d won I’d have been down about our team. And it’s not just because we lost our best player, it felt like losing a family member or something. Class act, great player. But he’ll be back, if anyone can do it, Nick can. If effing sucks though.
Let’s go Ford and Hunt!! Browns Nation need you to carry the rock with passion and grit. It’s time this freaking offence did some badassedry of its own.
General Thought They win over seventy percent of the time when TJ Watt even suits up, stop saying how much the Pittsburgh offense sucks and start saying how you plan to neutralize TJ Watt Ya have about Five weeks to figure out how to avoid the same fate.
Even with all Pitt had going for it, Monday night, at home, TJ suited up, all those things, even after Chubb went out,
The Browns still had the lead for much of the game even late in the game.
Way late to this discussion; but agree with all the Stinkfanski analysis as well as Watson's.
The only thing I'll add about Watson is that as a QB, he's got this vacant 10,000 yard stare on the field. There is no display of competitive fire or leadership. People who are really great at whatever they choose to do have that "it" factor. Montana, Elway, Bernie, Marino and Brady are just football examples. Look at Tom Cruise, nutty as a fruit cake, but absolutely the best action actor today. Alan Rickman was simply amazing in all his roles (my favorite was Hans Gruber).
Watson inspires zero confidence on the team. I wouldn't follow him out of a burning building.
We can get around the loss of Chubb but not the ineptitue of Watson and Stefanski!
Wow. because if eotab says it... ... I take it with weight.
... well it's early in the year maybe the season is partly salvageable.
What if it's not that Watson can't play or that Baker couldn't play, , relax b/c Phlly will bring Baker down a bit this week on MNF probably.
or that Weeden couldn't or that... but maybe, what if, that even when Buffalo played Pitt in week I or 2 last year, they lost b/c of their offense and that with Josh Allen What if, KC could only play ok against Pitt b/c coach KC coach is really good and not Pat mahomes that the Browns are a bad place for a @uarterback to have to face Baltimore and Pitt, defenses, and we would have seen similar results if the Falcon @uarterback, matt Ryan were in Cle or , the .. Drew Brees, or a bunch of good @uarterbacks
Maybe the hope is a fast acting @uick delivering @uick passing game that knows how to play together, <good luck getting that, Maybe play Pitt like Thaddeus Lewis played them.
