Never a doubt! This team is resilient. Playoffs will be fun!

Joe Flacco killed us and saved us.

We gotta do something about that OL. Cant run, no time to throw.

Its win, thank God! I feel so relieved.

Game Ball to Njoku

That was rough, but here we are at 9-5.

How the back-ups are producing, is amazing. That is great coaching

Great win !!

The Defense played very good

The Offense did what they had to

I give the Offense a big that a boy

The offensive line was what you saw in pre-season

Never gave up even if it didn't look that way !

9-5 !!!!!

9-5 with a patchwork offensive line. 4th QB.

And one hell of a kicker!!!!!!!!!

Go Browns!!!!!!!!!

What a win!!

And wow, a winning season! And we’re still in the thick of things for the division crown and great playoff seeding!

Is this real?

Resilient.

This was a hard game to watch.

Hope Z is okay. Terrible FOX game coverage.👎

Flacco came through when it mattered with a gunslinger mentality, that throw to cooper i'm not sure we have another QB that would have had that result, and then the side arm fling ffalling down to njoku was a back breaker, thats the kind of play we always saw against us. One thing is evident, is Njoku is thriving with a QB that looks for him, hopefully that translates into next year. We are now 92% Lock to make playoffs.

hopefully Z and Bitonio are ok for next game.. we might do the unthinkable and have a team of Practice squad in the playoffs

What a weird year we’re having. We keep losing key players and we somehow keep winning. I mean, that ball was in that bear’s arms and it just bounced out? There’s just no predicting WTH is going to happen any given week. Maybe the only confident prediction to make is that it’s gonna be ugly. I don’t think we have any pretty games left in us. I’ll take all the ugly wins we can muster thank you very much.

Gonna have to see if Z Smith ends up on the injury sheet this week. What would a 2023 Cleveland Browns football game be without a key injury?

Our D only gave up 220+ yards and their 2 TDs were the result of a total of 1 offensive yard.

Guts by Flacco.

THis coaching staff keeps making adjustment to even more injuries. If KS isn't COY, the award means nothing.

What was wrong with the coverage? I like the 2 announcers we have had the last 2 weeks.

Milk started things off with never a doubt. LOL...I was starting to have some.

Nice win.

Still a great, albeit heart stopping, win!!! We saw the good Joe Flacco today and the bad one. Thank God the good one won out!!!!

Honestly, I just got disgusted at the end of 3, put on traditional Christmas music and took a snooze. Woke up to check on the score and saw the final at 20-17 for the good guys. That's 2 games this year I stopped watching due to irritation with the team's "meh" performance, and 2 games the Browns won. Ravens and Bears. Maybe I should stop watching sooner in the game, or just not at all so they win?

In unrelated news, my Cardiologist says I need to watch my heart rate...

My pacemaker has been working overtime this year Lol.

This is 1980!

I was wondering if they would use Goodwin on a long ball. I think we will see that again

That should have been a TD at the very end. The ball went right in his lap. Thank God it wasn't.

What a game! 9 & 5!!! Go Browns!!!

My postgame thought is y’all in game day chat should never watch competitive sports. You cannot handle the ebb and flow. And the Browns defense held another NFL team to 17 points. I never want to read about how bad Jim Schwartz is again.

Today is my birthday and I feel I've just been handed a gift.....lol

You could live 100 more years and never see a game like that.

GREAT GAME/GREAT WIN!!!!!

And 14 of their points were handed to them by ints. The D played oustanding today!

A few whiny ass bawl babies that ruin the experience for everyone. They're there because nobody can stand to watch a game with them in person.

Happy Birthday!

That's why I mentioned 1980. All those last second wins that year just like this season and that Hail Mary then and today. Difference is today we won and in 1980 we didn't have all these injuries. Kardiac Kids have returned!!!!

- Hats off to this coaching staff. Just an incredible job to have this team at 9-5 with all of the key injuries.

- Stefanski with another great game calling plays.

- Flacco with his second straight game over 300+ yards. Overcame the early INTs to lead the team to victory when the game was on the line.

- The defense was excellent today. JOK, Newsome, Tomlinson, Wright all made plays. Garrett ripped down by his facemask and no call was made.

- 19 total punts between both teams.

- Browns special teams continues to be a bright spot.

- Browns had two 100+ yard receivers today, which is a rarity.

- The procedural penalties need cleaned up.

- Jerome Ford may need Eric Dickerson goggles so he see the running lanes.

- Deep pass to Goodwin finally paid off.

- Hopkins to the Pro Bowl.

- Mo Hurst led the defensive huddle pregame after being ruled out the remainder of the season.

Game balls: David Njoku and Greg Newsome

This team believes in themselves and each other. Looking forward to next week's win in Houston.

We need to get healthy . Not pretty but a win is a win. The D did their job. 14 of their points were gifts so the D held them to 3. Need the Jags to thump the Rats tonight.

Happy birthday!

It wasn't pretty but a win is a win. That hail Mary at the end was too darn close to being completed! Flacco had us all on an emotional roller-coaster.

First Winning since? 202I, 2020? Either way,
at Nine Wins guaranteed a winning season.

With all the injuries the Browns have had making, the playoffs would be huge accomplishment! Nice win today!

Happy Birthday browns32 ... mine is tomorrow. We'll share this gift

Jerome certainly does not have the vision that makes Nicky so dangerous.

Seeing the cutback is what chubby does better than anyone. And Jerome does not have that. He’s a baller and I love him, but obviously he’s no Chubb.

At any rate, I think this is one of the top 10 wins of the expansion era. We are so banged up that post season advancement is unlikely but this team has something. And they ball OUT.

Proud to be a browns fan today. That was a freaking great win.

True insanity.

Again I had to take shower after the game because of stink under my arms.

I thought we had hit the tipping point of injuries when Bitonio and Harris went out. The protection was horrific.

Still in shock that we actually won the game.

We are winning because of our defense and the offense just doing enough. Yes, I am Captain Obvious.

I'd like to see someone besides Harris at Center. We missed Pocic. We need him back

Harris is useful, but no way can he hold up against a big tackle on the nose. We should know this by now.

It was also the first real time that I've seen Christian being a liability

I agree.

If you watch the game then you woukd know that they couldn't get their down and distance correctly ... and they failed to show replays at times when it was warranted. Players got hurt and they never told us of the extent of their injury ect....

With all the injuries.. mad credit goes to David NJoku for stepping up in a huge way this season. Dude's turning into an offensive weapon. Even with the drops... he's coming through huge.

I haven't gone back and watched the replay that was after the end of the game, but I swear I saw their WR push our DB out of the way with both hands.

I hate it when penalties aren't called because of the game circumstances".

Penalties, turnovers. They kill you. Throw in some 8-9-10 starters being out? I'm old enough to remember the Kardiac Kids.

It was tough on me back then, and tough now, but it's a W! The end.

Somehow, Someway we are winning games (closely) with practice squad guys and preseason scrubs. hard to imagine how deadly we would be if he had our full strength of players

Best Quote of the Day!!.. And no one in the national media will bring up that point!!

just watching the highlights ... how about Cam Mitchell's shoestring tackle of Fields on 4th and 1? Game saver

AND, my mother in law stopped by, late in the game. I was in the garage, of course. When that last pass finally fell incomplete, out I went - air horn, then a few shotgun blasts.

Wife told me later her mom said "What did he shoot for? They (browns) didn't score." Wife said "Mom, he's shooting because they won."

He’s been good since he came back. I remember him playing well in preseason too. Just another note on Flacco . 4th quarter 10-13 212 yards with 4 completions over 30 yards. If we are within striking distance in the 4th Flacco’s performance first 3 quarters goes out the window he never stops believing he can make the next play. Not sure we win this game with any other qb we have on the roster. We have to find a way to run though . As bad as ford has been, I really thought we’d see strong with some touches. Ford doesn’t trust where the holes are, chubb could see the cutback better than anyone but he would also barrel into the line knowing by the time he got there it would have a hole for him. That’s what we are missing. With Chubb all season we probably are sitting at atleast 2 more wins. Can’t wait for him to get back but we need to make sure we got a viable backup. Probably draft this year

Strong has his issues in blocking, but he has much more burst than Ford

The Bears WR did drop a sure , easily catchable, TD pass as well.

Weird game. Thought that they would lose but the D played very well especially at crunch time.

Now…

Enough of the B.S. that the refs or the NFL is rigging games or deliberately making calls against the Browns. While the league may want so-called glamor teams in the Super Bowl they get what the get. KC was crap until they weren’t. The Rams, who suck now, won. A winning organization takes time to build. I am not yet convinced the Haslams are the owners to do it especially more than one time. The FO, scouting, talent evaluation and development and coaching in all phases needs to be capable. Bitching about refs (yes, they suck in the aggregate) or the league is a whiny excuse for failure by players or coaches on game day.

That play was perhaps the most important of the entire game.
It went down, and I said: "that's the game-changer."

After witnessing Flacco beat up on us for years (even as Jets QB), I am so happy to be on the right side of him. The absolute dime to Goodwin followed by the percision pass to Cooper for the TD and the Amazing 3rd and 15 pass to Njoku all when the game was on the line, were passes none of our current active or inactive QBs could make at this point. Flacco, at 38 yrs old, is the best QB we have had in a long, long time. Along with Hopkins and Cooper, he has been the best Browns acquisition.

O-Line is what it is at this point but there HAS to be someone, anyone, out there better than James Hudson. He is just BAD. Rarely engages the defender, is SLOW and is always backpedding, sometimes even running into the QB.

Pass defense has been pretty amazing with all the injuries. I absolutely hated the prevent defense the last Bears drive. Almost cost us the game.

A win is a win. 9-5 with this ragtag bunch is amazing. Onto Houston.

Wasnt there a play on the last drive where we only rushed 2 guys? wtf lol

Happy Birthday bbrowns32!

This team does not give up. It’s impressive, and I give a lot of credit to Stefanski and Schwartz.

I still don’t love Stefanski calling the offensive plays, but he did a good job given how hindered we were with injuries, he did well.

This could have easily been the Browns year given how weak the AFC teams have been. I’m sad about that, but proud of the Browns for fighting through a ridiculous amount of injuries.

Nice catch. That play was huge, as things turned out.

I did watch the game and had no problem with the coverage. The coverage team has no clue as to injury extent unless one of the teams communicates that information.

Stefanski has every player that walks on to the field believing they can make plays to help win games, even if every other metric says they should just give up. EVERYONE is playing hard for KS. Looking forward to extending that man.

Did anyone catch Sanchez calling Denzel "TJ Ward"?

I think we are getting a little picky here.

j/c...

That makes sense .. and getting ahead of the Bears makes sense too. You could see that Fields relies on the defense being on their heels

That was a huge play.

Cameron Mitchell gets Justin Fields by a foot on 4th down, starting Browns rally by Bears
Chris Easterling
Akron Beacon Journal
Published 9:01 p.m. EST Dec. 17th, 2023

CLEVELAND — Chicago Bears quarterback Justin Fields had the corner. The first down was mere feet away,

That is, until Browns cornerback Cameron Mitchell got his hands on one of Fields' feet. That foot left the Bears about a foot shy of picking up a first down on the first play of the fourth quarter.

When Dustin Hopkins' foot connected on a go-ahead 34-yard field goal with 32 seconds remaining, the importance of that foot could not have resonated louder. Instead of adding to what was a 10-point lead, that foot grab and stumble helped turned the momentum that led to a 20-17 comeback win for the Browns.

“I’m not going to say I felt the momentum switch,” Mitchell said. “But when I got to the sideline everyone was like that’s game changing. After the game, everyone was like that was one of those plays that changed the game for us. That’s my job, just doing my job so we can win.”

That's even if Mitchell acknowledged that he may not have even been in the right place, at least when the play first developed. When it ended, though, he was right where he needed to be to get to Fields.

The Bears came out with a tight bunch to the right side of the formation out of the break between the third and fourth quarter to try and pick up the fourth-and-1 from the Browns 33 while holding a 17-7 lead. Mitchell was lined up head up on Darnell Mooney at the middle of the bunch, and stayed there as the outside receiver went in motion left.

On the snap, Mitchell gets sucked into the action of the play, which was going to the left. Fields, though, reversed to the right on the bootleg and rand toward the first-down marker.

Mitchell was pushed backwards by Mooney, who was thinking he was getting the Browns rookie out of the play. Instead, it put Mitchell in position to at least recover enough to get near Fields, which was what he was able to do.

“Honestly I was doing the wrong thing it was just feeling that moment and being a football player,” Mitchell said. “My guy blocked down, I got a block from the outside, Greg’s guy. Then it was just we had nobody in the area and Justin Fields is an elite runner, so I just wanted to go make a play. It was improvising. In that moment you have to be a football player.”

That played turned into a major momentum shift in the span of about 15 seconds. That how long it took the Browns to flip the field when Joe Flacco hit Marquise Goodwin on a 57-yard pass to the Bears 15, setting up a Hopkins 33-yard field goal to pull the Browns within 17-10 with 12:27 remaining.



The Browns would score on three of their final four possessions, all after Mitchell's stop. The Bears, meanwhile, would net 48 yards on their final 17 plays, 30 of those on Tyler Scott's catch that put them at the Browns 45 with 15 seconds remaining.

"I mean, Cam is a hell of a young talent and those guys in the secondary, I want to say unsung heroes today," All-Pro defensive end Myles Garrett said. "They didn't make as many plays as last week, but they still balled out. And Cam has been taking step by step each week, getting better and listening to the vets in the room and just doing what he needs to make plays for the football team and we can't be any prouder."

https://www.beaconjournal.com/story.../71945665007/?utm_campaign=snd-autopilot

thanks for that article ... it was a play that, even at the time, you thought could be monumental. The Bears coaching staff had little confidence in their kicker for all of the afternoon, and it probably cost them the game

Happy birthday!

thanks buddy

I like it. I think many times teams just defer, but in a place like Cleveland I like the wind to be in my favor in the 4th rather than fighting the wind. It can help you flip a field in the punting game or help you make that longer FG attempt.

What a game. Always felt we were in it because of the D - but there was a drive or two in the second half when I felt that pit in my stomach and thought it was over!

Just hard to stress how impressive it is to keep winning with the amount of key injuries and what we are having to play with on the OL. Mad props to the team and to KS. Chicago's D is very good - I think we'll have an easier road with most other teams on the schedule. Got to hope Z and Bitonio get healthy quick.

As usual it seems like MG was getting held frequently and then the Refs blow for ticky tacky holds by our OL - not a lot of consistency. MG's stats were'nt amazing if you look at the box score - but he was disruptive and was forcing Fields to react on a lot of plays.

Baltimore have the 49ers and Miami left on their schedule. Too bad the 49ers may have wrapped up their division and #1 seed by the time they play. Miami should want to win if the Bills keep winning.

If we're really really lucky we might be playing week 18 hoping Pit beats Baltimore for a chance to win the division.... Who would have thunk it.

After another heart attack moment I have had some time to reflect.

The defense was really good. D'A Bell and Hickman stepped in and played well. The DT's Harris and Tomlinson played great. Myles brought it all game with double teams on him. JOK has been off the rails good. He is the player I saw in the draft. The corners played great but it started with constant pressure.

Flacco 11 for 13 and 212 yards when we had to have it. The iceman cometh. We gonna ride with Joe. David Njoku and Cooper were huge. Tillman starting to make some plays.

We have to get Bitonio and Pocic back so we can run the ball at least some. Hudson and Christian are really bad. Hudson got destroyed by Montez Sweat.

Cannot say enough about the coaching staff. KS has held this team together. Schwartz regrouped after the two losses. Lit the fire and the defense responded.

I don't know where we are going with this team but I am on board and loving it.

As a fan you gotta love this team for the fight in the dawg.

I didn't see anyone mention him yet (could have missed it) but what about JOK? He was everywhere on the field yesterday.

It's a possibility. It would be great to get a home playoff game.

I got a notification from the Browns about playoff tickets. In the past if you even had a possibility of the playoffs you had to send in your money which could be refunded or applied to next years season tickets. I guess the positive of digital tickets is you now pay as you play. A much better way. In the past I would just take the credit to my account. I am now at the age where I don't want to pay for things too far in advance..LOL

Not that we would get the home field, but tickets for the AFC championship are set at $546 per seat, for my club seats. Prices are set by the NFL. I guess they just take the teams ticket price for each seat and mark if up X percentage.

So if any of you start looking for playoff tickets and get ticked by the prices and mad at people for charging so much, just understand the starting price is a lot higher.

Look at the post before yours.

I just posted that he has been off the charts good for most of this season. One of the top true linebackers ( not rush LB's). He has been the player I saw in college. Three down linebacker playing the pass and the run. The most TFL's of any linebacker in the NFL.

Key guy for the Schwartz defense.

Hope you get to go.

The fans went bonkers in the 4th quarter.

You gotta love rooting for this team. What a crazy season. No matter what this year's team will hold a special place for me.

You can't measure heart. It is not a PFF grade. But this team is loaded with heart.

getting Pocic back and Bitonio healthy-ish is really important. Our OL is literally on the fumes of fumes

Not for nothing, but they held them to 10 points. 7 came off a pick six. Hell, even the other 7 was due to the Bears starting at 1st and Goal.

A great win and sign of the resiliency this team has faced with all of the injuries up to this point, and even, into yesterday's game. Players are really stepping up and having a veteran QB who can remain stoic and focused even after the number of interceptions is an important asset down the stretch.

- Really thought the OL played poorly but because Teller is the only starter left and some positions (C and RT) are down to third stringers. Hopefully guys can get healthy. However, we need to do something about replacing Hudson. I don't know the solution, but it ain't him.
- Njoku continues to play like a stud TE, but we can let people argue about his contract and value.
- JOK was huge yesterday. I don't think Andrew Berry values the LB unit high compared to the DL and secondary, but I'm sure he is making them consider an extension sometime soon.
- Didn't understand the 4th down call using DTR. I think it was a bad call that ended up working out.
- Nice to see effort plays from Mitchell, Hickman and Bell in the secondary. We're going to need that hustle as we close out the season.
- Hopefully guys can continue to get healthier and are able to play these final three games.

Week 16: Houston -2.5; Over/Under 42

j/c

Going through the playoff simulator thing ... we aren't as "sure" to make the playoffs as the surface says. The Houston game is HUGE for both teams. If we lose, we have to win the next two games, unless we want some pretty big help from others.

My doctor says my heart will get back to normal in a few days... Geez, what a freaking win.

What a win! They truly never quit or stopped believing they could win. That's huge in terms of culture. Seemingly trading places with the Steelers...finally...

Harris is better as a roving lineman like he had been used. Didn't help us much on those short yardage situations. Whoever came in for him after he was injured didn't seem terrible. Any reports on that guy, whoever he was?

JOK was an absolute monster.

What happened to Hunt? Did he hit the wall? He used to run like a Tasmanian Devil and now he just seems to have lost the burst. Back in 2020, he could have started for probably most of the rosters. We need another legit RB. Ford ain't it.

We had 2 100 yard receivers.

My thought at the end of the half was that Flacco turned back into a pumpkin, and he did. Then he turned back into a stagecoach in the fourth quarter. My heart can't handle that.

Hope Bitonio is okay. The amount of injuries we have is beyond ridiculous at this point.

DL did a good job of making sure that Fields was always throwing with poor motion.

Garrett once again got royally screwed by the refs.

Can't believe Mooney dropped that ball, but hell if I care.

Njoku is really starting to come into his own. Tillman is also getting some targets, which is encouraging.

I was bagging on Flores' defense against the Bengals, and rightfully so. He showed blitz and dropped back into coverage. It kept failing. He kept doing it. Schwartz truly mixed things up. It was such a juxtaposition watching both of those defenses perform.

Denzel Ward may be our most valuable player on defense. Perhaps even more so than Garrett.

Forgot one thing: Hudson is the "fish" on our OL. He is the worst by far, even with all of the other guys being off the streets, besides Teller.

now we know why Cleveland Clinic is the #1 heart hospital ... tons of practice

Side note of something I've repeated on here.....I'd like to start seeing more Pierre Strong carries and less Kareem Hunt carries.

bingo. Strong has some BURST to him ... just don't trust his blocking or hands as much

To your point and Memphis - yes, JOK had a career day. Not sure if that stats say it was his best game ever for the Browns - but from an impact perspective he was outstanding.

On the Hunt/Strong discsussion - 2 things.

1. Agree I'd like to see more Strong. Whether he takes Ford carries or Hunt carries or a bit of both. 2. I'd like to see Hunt used less in terms of banging it up the middle for 2 yards - we seem to be using him specifially on short yardage runs ... wasn't there a comment the other day by one of the game commentators saying they knew exactly where we were going to run it with Hunt in the backfield?? Seems like it might be a bit too predictable.

Also props to Njoku - made some grabs that were MUCH harder than the drops he mad last week. a little redemption for him. I'd love to see him be that guy for the rest of the season - Capt. Obvious I know.

Yes, but 9 times out of 10 he gets the two yards and a first down. Nothing wrong with that

The Ravens have a hard three games ahead of them. I’m stil for winning the AFCN. Let’s go Browns. Win out baby

My take on the run game.

Conklin has always been a great run blocker. Hit one when he was lost for the year. Wills was ok in the run game but having Bitonio next to him helped because Joel is so good. Pocic is 6'6' 320 lbs. Harris is 6'1" 293 lbs. The center of the OL anchors the line. Having Teller and Bitonio at guard provides the three to open the middle. Plus both guards can pull in zone.

When Dawand Jones took over at RT. He was brilliant in pass blocking while learning how to run block.

Enter Geron Christian and James Hudson. Both are terrible. Hudson is particularly poor. He has a weak base and poor feet. Montez Sweat was going through him, and around him in every way possible.

Kareem is a single purpose back. Limited to short yardage gains. He needs the interior three starters.

Ford has some tools. He has some speed. He is not a tackle breaker. His biggest issue is his vision and decisiveness. He needs a good OL to open clear holes. Right now we do not have a good OL. That is why Flacco is throwing 40 passes. Flacco will rip it and do so quickly. He is not so much of a guy trying to buy time with movement.

We have to at least have Pocic, Bitonio and Teller. If Leatherwood can get up to at least be better than Hudson perhaps we can run somewhat efficiently.

I remember one drive in the game where Flacco was almost picked off twice in consecutive plays. I told myself, damn Joe they’re jumping your routes. Gota get out of the pocket and throw over the top of coverage when they do that. that’s what he did. I’m so glad we picked this guy up.

No doubt. I guess there is a trust factor with Hunt that he doesn't fumble, but I have been saying most of the year the guy is nothing more than a plunger at this point. Good for 2-3 yards and that is about it.

I have long felt that the middle 3 are more important than the tackles. Tackles are just harder to find.

As long as a tackle doesn't get beat inside the QB has a wall to step towards and ruin the rush angle. All are important, but I want that wall in front of a QB. If a QB gets bum rushed right up the middle, it's over.

our OTs were really bad yesterday. There was a stretch during the 2/3 quarters where it was basically just a free rush to Flacco

That's one area where he really needed to sync with the wide receivers. He likes to throw before they hit their breaks so that the ball makes it through the tight window. Problem is sometimes they don't break the way he thinks they will and then it goes for the INT. Like you said, start throwing more of it over top, which he thankfully did. Bears were selling out to jump on the "friendly" (as Eli Manning calls them) breaks and started leaving the long plays open.

I'll be honest, some of the Bears coverage schemes really had me scratching my head. I think they had a DE covering Njoku at one point. I get that you have that kind of stuff when you disguise your coverages and even more so with blitzes, but the mismatches there didn't make a whole lot of sense to me.

Sanchez actually mentioned on scramble plays ( which there were many ) He noticed Flacco waiting for the receiver to turn and look at him before he threw the ball.

If you need a yard, he'll get you 3. If you need five yards, he'll get you 3.

The bad from yesterday -

--I thought the offensive game plan was poor. I get it's hard to run with backup OL everywhere. But Stefanski doesn't play the long game. He's too anxious and antsy. I think it was Chris Simms commenting this morning that he doesn't understand Stefanski's play calls with our defense. Run more than once in a row. Be comfortable going three and out. I don't think Flacco passing 40+ times a game is sustainable. I put way more blame on Stefanski yesterday than Flacco through those first three quarters.

--Myles has to get home. 4 games in a row no sacks. Without looking it up that's probably the longest he's gone without a sack. He needs to finish. He finishes the sack in the first quarter on Fields and Fields doesn't get the TD to Kmet. Stats and attention are important to Myles and he's pressing. Just finish.

--The PI call on Emerson in the first quarter was baffling. That same side judge took her eyes off of Tillman for a split second late as he got thrown out of bounds. How convenient.

--Why is Strong not getting more carries?

--Why has it taken so long to get Njoku involved. Every season this happens.

--Turnovers.

--No defense in the history of the NFL has been given more short fields to defend due to turnovers. And no defense let's up TDs on those short fields like this Browns defense. This is the craziest thing I think I've witnessed with the Browns in twenty years. Teams literally only score on the defense because we always turn the ball over deep in own territory.

--Two games in a row and a ton of empty seats in the stadium. I don't get it.

--I do not like conceding the hail mary. I think that's a terrible decision. Too much can happen. Play your base D, rush 4 or 5, and drop the back end guys back. Why even let a team get the pass off. Ugh. Could have been really bad.

--Flacco through the first three quarters.

--Sanchez's hair.

The good -

--I was lukewarm on Stefanski coming into the season. No coach in recent history had done less with more. Now he's doing the opposite. He's doing more with less. The coaching job this season has been phenomenal. We need to see a few more years in a row of it, but maybe, just maybe the culture is being set from Berry on down and it's all coming to fruition. Play tough, play together (no agendas), play tough within the division, be a place players want to play at, reward your own. You have to extend Stefanski and Berry at this point no matter what happens the rest of the season.

--Although Myles didn't get home he was disruptive. The refs did retaliate for his criticism and would just not call any holds on Myles. It was pretty sickening to watch. If I can see them from my couch...I mean come on.

--I said weeks ago Njoku was one of the only true leaders on the team. Watch the locker room celebration. I think Stefanski feels the same. He's also playing lights out.

--Shelby Harris doing his best Maurice Hurst impression. No drop off. The team is deep and the players believe at all levels...first string, second string, on down. It's pretty fun to watch. Most Browns teams in years past would have packed it in. I think it's a real testament to how Stefanski refuses to acknowledge or hang his head about injuries. Filters down to the rest of the team. Schwartz as well. They expect the backups to play like starters with no drop off.

--Tillman is starting to come on. I had concerns. Since his dad coaches at the high school he played at here in Vegas, his parents come to the local Browns Backers bar here to watch the games. I know the president of this Backers club and she said his parents are awesome and have become big Browns fans. It's got to be exciting watching him start to have some success. Will have high hopes for him next year.

--Alex Wright sighting. That was a nice play. Still undecided on him, but that was a big play at the time.

--JOK. JOK. JOK.

--Flacco in the fourth quarter. It's fun listening to Joe in interviews and pressers. What a great guy. Of course, we thought he was a jerk for ten plus years, but what a great guy now.

I also could not handle the "ebb and flow" of that game. Go ahead and throw me into that group. :-p

One other thing that's irritating to me: Tillman has hurt us quite a few times with his lack of awareness/experience. You can tell he has some physical skills, but he's cost us too

I've got friends hat like the Pats, Giants, Packers etc. and they all sound like me when talking about their teams. Just the way it is when you're a big sports fan.

Happy Birthday!

thanks OCD

I'd like to think that winning this game is huge (mentally) for the D. They were out playing lights out and were able to hang in there until the O got in gear. It's got to be a huge mental charge for all that gritty play to pay off in the end.

I just hope we can keep this group almost completely intact going into next year. I know there is always some roster churn, but now would be a good time to trade away draft picks that we really don’t need to use. Only take premium players if you get the opportunity, or trade those picks for better future picks this off season. Just my opinion, but FA to fill the holes would be smarter going into another uear where you expect to make a run for the SB.

In the first quarter Bitonio went out. Harris went out.

Ford left the game and then returned. Ford hurt his wrist last week and didn't practice. When he got up early in the game he was hurting.

Dunn got two holding calls.

Hudson was getting abused by Montez Sweat. Christian is below average.

We were down ten points and the run game was not happening. Of course Stefanski would have loved to run the ball more.

Except for all of the above reasons. It was illogical to run the ball.

Stefanski never loves to run the ball more unless we are in the lead.

Njoku has always been the super talented TE everyone thought he was. It just took a competent QB to show everyone those skills.

TLDR: I'm used to being negative with the Browns and I still don't trust Stefanski, but I need to enjoy the ride.

So a day later and some introspect, I might qualify as one who has a negative view of the Browns overall. I think a lot of that is the Lucy/Charlie Brown thing - I've been following the Browns probably since 1965/66 when I can say football interested me. I saw the Kardiac Kids, The Drive, The Fumble and idiotic possession calls that determined playoff pictures. Like many here, I suffered through The Betrayal Move and then watched my former Browns win a Super Bowl under some bogus crap that the very city that stole them bemoaned about when the Colts moved to Indy. I've seen a hated coach divest the team of one of the best QBs to play the game, then move on to win 6 Super Bowls. I've seen every year since 99 and as it seems like you get close to kicking the ball, Lucy yanks it away. I'm conditioned to be skeptical; to believe that the team is cursed and will never deliver the sweet satisfaction of making it back to the Championship level. Kvetching is what it means to be a fan in my world.

And then I thought, how is it possible that this team has lost 22% (or more) of it's #1 Players (if you count 11 O & 11 D), that works out to 3 key personnel per side, and then losing the backups is crazier? How can this team be 9-5 with 4 different QBs, and now while he's got some mileage, they have a 38 year old QB playing like he's mid-20's again. How is it they can look so bad, but eek out key wins?

I still don't like Stefanski's play calling and his sometimes questionable clock management, but I do have to give him credit for taking a team that has more walking wounded than the M*A*S*H 4077 and keeping incredulous hope alive for both the team, and the fanbase.

Maybe I just need to accept that the team may not survive all that's befallen, but I need to enjoy the ride knowing that everyone else in NFL-Land can see the Browns have done something magical.

Yeah, I remember him talking about that as well. I think that happened after he got burned on a couple INTs where he spot threw and the receiver went the other way.

Four starting QB's and the Browns are 9-5. On one hand you whine about Stefanski while you compliment him on the other hand. I don't think your harping about him would end even if he coached this team to the SB.

Happy Birthday Buddy!

I would grant him at least a two day moratorium for sure.

thanks my guy!

I do not think that is accurate.

Check the numbers.

You do what is best in the moment to win. All based upon knowledge of the team and the matchups in play.

It is never a simple formula. When you think the run will work because of information. You run it.

When we had Nick and Hunt with Baker and Jacoby. We ran the ball. We used under center play action with 12 personnel.

We don't have that right now.

Another Hunt based observation:

When he was in KC, he was frequently used out of the backfield to catch passes, etc. Seems like the Browns only ever use him as a "hammer" and whenever he's in, D's might be ripe for a play-action to him.

Then again - we don't see practice, maybe he Medusa'd his hands or got the Dropsies...who knows?

Kareem has good hands. They have tried him on some screens. He is a decent blocker.

What is noticeable about Kareem is he no longer has burst. He still goes all out throwing his body determined to get that yard.

But he does not have that burst through a hole and is not a home run threat.

I doubt that he will be on the team next year.

We have to draft a couple backs or sign a guy and draft one.

I was just listening to JOK in a presser.

Impressive guy. Thoughtful, intelligent, articulate, and humble. I think he will be a Brown for at least another contract.

He is having a great season.

j/c...

It started last year, and IIRC it coincides with him being a regular fixture on the injury list (this year it's groin, I think it was hammy last year (?)). I think his body is beginning to let him down.

I love watching JOK play. He plays a different game than most at linebacker.

His quickness separates him. That play with two OLmen. You just don't see guys read the move of the back like that.

He didn't try to blow up the blocking with a sacrifice to the blockers. He anticipated how the back would read the block.

He cut to the hole and made the play.

In his presser he gave credit to the DL and Schwartz. But he is something else.

What is also notable (different word than you used) is he wasn't on ANY team anywhere until Chub got hurt. He's done what he can do for the Browns, and that's admirable. He lays it out on every play.

Yes, he has lost his burst, but he’s still a damn good back at level 2 or 3 IMO and I think he now knows it’s not in the cards for him to get that big payday. I hope he’s on the team next year because next to Myles, IMO, he’s our number one locker-room guy and by all accounts a great teammate. I’d take him over strong all day long. When we have our starting line, he still gets good long runs. And hre’s still good for the short yardage and over the top jump runs.

BUT his blocking might need work, unless you missed him getting knocked on his butt against the Bears. That was one he’d like to do over.

If you want to see the concepts of the offense, this is a great review

Burns does a really good job there. It makes sense

Maybe. On broken plays, the receivers route is over, so there isn't a set spot for the qb to throw. He has to wait to make sure the receiver is looking.

In theory the receiver is taught to work towards and back to the QB but once eye contact is made the qb may make some motion for the receiver to start deep.

The major takeaway is Joe can adapt very quickly and defenses just hate that. Especially the LB’s

Yes he puts it out there on every play, he has gotten us a lot of short yardage conversions and scored the most touchdowns (7) rushing since he was with the Chiefs in 18.

That was awesome Milk Man.

Luckily, even though he threw three INTs, he led us to a victory. Just pointing out facts.

Hey it’s December, and we are wot wondering about why the Draft Forum is not up for choices that we do not have.

It’s been an interesting season that did not end with Chubb going down.

KS has become much more comfortable and vocal as he's matured as a head coach. He's here for the long haul IMO

He was the first Browns QB to throw for over 200 yards in the 4th quarter since Brian Sipe. While doing so he led the O to three scoring drives in the 4th quarter. You may call that luck if you wish but I call that coming through in the clutch. When the chips were down and the game was on the line, he came through when it mattered the most. I'll take it.

I'll absolutely take it, too, but I'm still going to keep asking that he take better care of the ball in Qtrs 1 through 3.

While that's true I think one has to consider what we're dealing with here. He's a QB that came off the couch less than a month ago that nobody else wanted. Considering that context I'm pretty happy with the results. It's not like they paid 230 million and 3 1st round draft picks for him.

He was an afterthought. A shot in the dark. I think when we ask something of someone we need to consider context and circumstances. IMO He and Brissett are by far the best return on investment I've seen in decades at the QB position for the Browns.

That doesn't mean I think they should go into next season with Flacco as the starter. I think that kind of talk is crazy. But considering where the Browns were at the QB position when they signed Flacco and the meager price they paid Flacco I'm more than happy. I mean you can't expect a Chevy to keep pace with a Ferrari.

I didn't say I'm unhappy with him or the results, and I fully recognize who and what he is, but I'm still going to keep asking that he take better care of the ball in Qtrs 1 through 3.

It's absolutely wonderful that he can sling it like that in the 4th Qtr and bail us out. On the flip side, if he doesn't basically hand them 14 points early on, he wouldn't have had to.

I don't disagree with you in theory. that's what everyone would hope to see from a complete QB. I'm just fully aware that if Flacco were capable of putting four quality quarters of football together he wouldn't have been sitting in his couch and be wearing a Browns uniform right now. I realize he has limitations that will most likely not permit us to see what it is you're asking for. He is what he is. Hopefully that will be just enough to keep winning games when you combine that with the Browns defense.

To be completely fair, the one interception was a good throw but a phenomenal play by the DB. Thinking of the one on the goal line that was right after we'd hit a turnover ourselves...

I think on another one Tillman either gave up on the route or didn't cut where he was supposed to.

I agree. In baseball a player can whiff 3X in a row, then in the 9th can hit that homer or 3 run scoring double deep in to the gap for a walk off and nobody is thinking about the strikeouts. They are talking about the player being solid in the clutch.

We have to take the good and bad with Joe. That is just the way of it.

Joe takes chances. He will make mistakes.

At the same time he can make great plays.

I think if we can get him a two score lead. Things will calm down. We can run more. We can move the chains and not take risks on chunk plays.

What Joe does best is execute play action from under center. He is really good at play fakes and ball handling. When he fakes the hand off on play action he is silky smooth. He throws darts in rhythm.

As these last three games go by. He should settle in with this offense. If we get him leads. We will kick ass.

A big part of Joes success the next three games will be getting the big three back playing together: Bitonio, Pocic, and Teller. Joe left some big time plays on the field last game that wasn’t his fault. The patchwork line did alright within reason. It’s understandable. However, there were quite a few pass plays he had to release the ball early to avoid a sack.

As for the running game, watching the play breakdowns I posted earlier the run game had no chance. Between the Bears line and backers doing a great job and also our line either not turning their man or the lineman not getting to their spots in time for the play to develop.

saying an INT is not the @uarterbacks fault at all is a lot like blaming a holder for a missed FG or PAT.

Go Browns

We want Moore.