Hey guys............I need some help. I have not studied this draft very much and am very ignorant about the quality of most players.

I absolutely despise all the Mock Draft threads. I won't even read them.

What I am looking for is knowledge. I am asking for guys w/knowledge of this draft [and there are plenty of you] help educate guys like myself.

You can use your own scouting report, borrow one from one of the online sites, or combine several reports to make your case. I just want the posts to be educational.

Sound cool?

I will provide one myself as an example. I was intrigued by this guy because I watch a lot of Big 10 football. I also looked at some of his scouting reports. Here is what I came up with:

Randy Gregory---DE/OLB---Nebraska

Strengths:

--amazing burst out of his stance
--has a ton of moves. Not a one-dimensional pass rusher.
--ability to bull rush, especially after he gets guys on their heels because of quick moves.
--versatile in that he can play in both schemes.
--great speed off of the edge.
--good combo of quick feet and combative hands.
--great slasher and runs plays down from behind.
--excellent motor

Concerns:

--light weight
--had quite a few minor inguries
--some question about his interviews during Combine. I read this one and found it a bit surprising. But apparently, he didn't do too well in the interviews.
--needs to gain strength.

Summary:

I think Gregory is a pretty awesome edge rusher and that is something the Browns need. He has an array of moves and is very explosive.

I believe he is better suited as an OLBer in a 3-4 than a 4-3 DE, and in fact, would have to switch to an OLBer in that system, too. I don't think he would excel there. The guy needs to rush the passer. We need a pass rusher.

I think there are some legitimate concerns w/him. His character issues surprised me, but apparently they were there. He is light I doubt he is an every-down player.

Overall, I would seriously consider him at #19 if he is still on the board.

[Alright guys, what do you think? Can you give me stuff like that about your guys? --------I hope so, because I am counting on you guys to educate me.}

Most mocks and sites had him as a top ten pick before the combine.

After the combine, he probably dropped. The weight is a major concern..

Cameron Erving: Here's a guy that I liked as a versatile Olineman with significant potential. Many expect him to go in the first round; I'd like him with our 19th pick, but admittedly, that may be a touch high...

6'5"
HEIGHT
34 1/8"
ARM LENGTH
313LBS.
WEIGHT
10 3/8"
HANDS
OVERVIEW
Came to Florida State as an unheralded defensive tackle from Colquitt County (Ga.) and redshirted in 2010 after a back injury. In 2011, had 20 tackles and a sack as a backup defensive tackle. Switched to the offensive side of the ball to help shore up Seminoles' pass protection in 2012 and started all 14 games at left tackle, protecting future first-round QB EJ Manuel's blind side. In 2013, started all 13 games at left tackle and was named first-team All-ACC for the national champion Seminoles. Two-time winner of the Jacobs Blocking Trophy given to the ACC's top blocker. Named first-team All-ACC tackle and third-team All-ACC center after making switch inside toward the end of the 2014 season. Was very close with grandmother (Lillie Lewis), who passed away in the spring of 2014 after one-year battle with pancreatic cancer.
ANALYSIS
STRENGTHS Keeps busy and works to secure blocks in run game. Good foot quickness into pass set. Consistently in ready position with good hand readiness in pass sets. Uses good hand placement and has natural timing with hands. Converted defensive tackle who will continue to improve in the NFL with more experience at center. Displays good snap-to-step quickness. Uses quickness to attack defender and begin his grind much earlier than when he played tackle. Competes and is a willing learner. Can get to second level and make cut-off blocks. Has athleticism to pull and offers versatility along the line.
WEAKNESSES High-cut with tapered lower body, lacking power in legs. Pops straight up in pass rush. Susceptible to bull rush. Had issues handling the edge speed of Clemson's Vic Beasley in 2014 and his days of playing tackle are likely over. Relies on lean rather than hip thrust to generate power. Taught to absorb and control as a pass protector and needs to establish more pop in punch.
SOURCES TELL US "He plays tough, but I wouldn't call him an intimidator out there. He's a work in progress, but he's going to keep getting better as he learns how to play center." -- ACC defensive line coach
NFL COMPARISON Eric Wood
BOTTOM LINE Former defensive lineman who is still learning the nuances of offensive-line play after just two seasons as a starter. Has the length and foot quickness to play tackle, but film work shows that he will have a much more successful career at center. Possesses skill set and temperament to show rapid development. Could be a Day 1 starter, but a year of seasoning would help

For those who are stat lovers, here is a matrix for Olinemen that may be usefull - (I know it is difficult to read when formatted like this)


Player School Height Weight Arm Hand 10 Yard 40 Bench Vertical Broad 3-Cone Short Shuttle
Al Bond Memphis 6'4 303 33 3/8 10 1/4 1.94 5.57 22 23.5" 7'6" 7.90 4.65
Brett Boyko UNLV 6'7 301 32 9 1.96 5.60 25" 8'7" 7.91 4.75
Jamon Brown Louisville 6'4 323 34 3/8 9 3/4
Trenton Brown Florida 6'8 355 36 10 7/8 1.87 5.29 20 23.5" 8'1" 8.23 4.78
A.J. Cann South Carolina 6'3 313 32 5/8 10 1/4 26
T.J. Clemmings Pittsburgh 6'5 309 35 1/8 10 3/8 1.84 5.14 22 32.5" 9'3" 7.68 4.54
Takoby Cofield Duke 6'4 310 34 10 1.78 5.19 23 30" 8'5" 8.09 4.79
La'el Collins LSU 6'4 305 33 1/4 10 3/8 1.86 5.12 21 27" 9' 7.70 4.63
Rob Crisp North Carolina St. 6'7 301 34 1/2 10 1.91 5.26 26 32.5" 8'11" 8.07 4.60
Reese Dismukes Auburn 6'3 296 32 1/4 8 7/8 1.81 5.31 23 27.5" 8'11" 8.14 4.70
Andrew Donnal Iowa 6'6 313 33 1/2 10 1.78 5.31 17 32" 8'5" 7.84 4.77
Jamil Douglas Arizona State 6'4 304 33 3/8 10 3/4 1.75 5.25 28 29" 8'3" 7.99 4.75
Cameron Erving Florida State 6'5 313 34 1/8 10 3/8 1.86 5.15 30 30.5" 9'4" 7.48 4.63
Tayo Fabuluje TCU 6'6 353 34 9 7/8 1.99 5.55 29.5" 4.77
Jon Feliciano Miami (FL) 6'4 323 32 3/8 9 3/4 1.86 5.33 26.5" 8'1" 4.74
B.J. Finney Kansas State 6'4 318 32 10 1.84 5.25 20 24" 8'3" 4.76
Jake Fisher Oregon 6'6 306 33 3/4 10 3/8 1.75 5.01 25 32.5" 7.25 4.33
Ereck Flowers Miami (FL) 6'6 329 34 1/2 9 7/8 1.90 5.31 37
Andy Gallik Boston College 6'2 306 32 3/4 10 1/4 1.90 5.50 29 27" 8'0" 7.66 4.58
Max Garcia Florida 6'4 309 33 1/8 10 1/4
Laurence Gibson Virginia Tech 6'6 305 35 1/8 10 3/8 1.81 5.04 24 33.5" 9'5" 7.72 4.56
Mark Glowinski West Virginia 6'4 307 33 1/8 9 3/4 1.83 5.20 31 29.5" 9'5" 7.56 4.58
Hroniss Grasu Oregon 6'3 297 32 1/8 10 1/4
Chaz Green Florida 6'5 314 33 3/8 10 7/8 1.75 5.16 21 29.5" 8'10" 8.00 4.70
Chad Hamilton Coastal Carolina 6'2 292 34 9 3/8
Jarvis Harrison Texas A&M 6'4 330 33 1/2 9 3/4 1.83 5.19 26 29.5" 8'6" 7.51 4.62
Bobby Hart Florida State 6'5 329 33 10 1/8
Rob Havenstein Wisconsin 6'7 321 33 3/4 9 7/8 1.86 5.46 16 28.5" 8'0" 8.28 4.87
Sean Hickey Syracuse 6'5 309 32 3/4 10 1/2 35
D.J. Humphries Florida 6'5 307 33 5/8 10 1.81 5.12 26 31" 8'8" 7.87 4.64
Tre Jackson Florida State 6'4 330 32 5/8 10 7/8 1.92 5.52 25" 8'0"
Arie Kouandijo Alabama 6'5 310 34 1/8 10 7/8
Greg Mancz Toledo 6'4 301 10
Ali Marpet Hobart College 6'4 307 33 3/8 10 1.81 4.98 30 30.5" 9'0" 7.33 4.47
Josue Matias Florida State 6'5 309 33 1/8 10 5.52 17.5" 7'0" 8.19 5.12
Darrian Miller Kentucky 6'5 307 33 9 3/4 1.97 5.51 25" 8'1" 7.91 4.87
John Miller Louisville 6'2 303 33 1/4 10 1/4 1.87 5.33 29 27" 8'8" 8.20 4.75
Mitch Morse Missouri 6'5 305 32 1/4 9 1/4 1.81 5.14 36 31" 9'4" 7.60 4.50
Robert Myers Tennessee State 6'5 326 33 3/4 9 1/2 1.78 5.44 27.5" 7'10" 8.10 4.91
Cedric Ogbuehi Texas A&M 6'5 306 35 7/8 10 23
Andrus Peat Stanford 6'7 313 34 3/8 10 5/8 1.82 5.18 31" 8'9" 8.01 4.62
Terry Poole San Diego State 6'5 307 33 1/4 9 1/2 1.79 5.09 25 31" 9'5" 7.90 4.66
Jeremiah Poutasi Utah 6'5 335 33 7/8 9 1/2 1.86 5.32 26 26.5" 7'11" 8/09 4.89
Corey Robinson South Carolina 6'7 324 35 5/8 10 3/4 28
Ty Sambrailo Colorado State 6'6 311 33 10 1.84 5.36 23 29" 8'1" 7.54 4.58
Brandon Scherff Iowa 6'5 319 33 3/8 11 1.78 5.05 23
Adam Shead Oklahoma 6'4 338 33 3/4 10 3/8 1.97 5.74 26
Austin Shepherd Alabama 6'4 315 32 7/8 10 1.94 5.39 17 29" 7'10" 8.04 4.70
Donovan Smith Penn State 6'6 338 34 3/8 10 5/8 1.86 5.27 26 32" 9'1" 7.95 4.79
Tyrus Thompson Oklahoma 6'5 324 34 7/8 10 1/4 29 29" 8'1" 4.92
Laken Tomlinson Duke 6'3 323 33 5/8 10 1/8 1.89 5.33 25 31.5" 8'7" 8.17 4.87
Daryl Williams Oklahoma 6'5 327 35 9 3/4 1.86 5.34 27 26" 8'1" 5.15

Great thread topic. I need the education as well.

Those two concerns above regarding Gregory don't concern me unless he was an ass at the interviews. Not everyone interviews well. And the strength thing, the team will take care of that in a year or so.

If he can contribute immediately then with strength training and experience he'll only get stronger and better.

The replies so far have been excellent. I hope they keep coming.

Davis Tull was my sleeper before he blew up the combine and pro day workout. I was hoping we could steal him in round 5. It now looks like round 3 is where we will have to grab him, and I think he will still be a steal there.


Three-time Southern Conference Defensive Player of the Year (2012, 2013, 2014). First-Team FCS All-American as a senior with 10.5 sacks and 18 tackles for loss. As a junior, was named First-Team FCS All-American with 9 sacks and 15 tackles for loss while posting a 4.0 GPA during the fall. In 2012, became first SoCon sophomore to be selected as SoCon Defensive Player of the Year since Dallas Cowboys 1997 third-round pick Dexter Coakley. Set single-season UTC sack record with 12.5 and was fourth in the nation with 19 tackles for loss. Made the SoCon All-Freshman team, starting all 11 games at defensive end. Former walk-on. Colleges stopped recruiting Tull after he broke his femur in the second game of his senior season and missed the rest of the year. Was an Honor Society member at Bearden High School in Knoxville, Tennessee.


PRO DAY RESULTS
40-yard dash: 4.57 seconds

ANALYSIS
STRENGTHS Four-year starter. Outstanding production and works as hard from snap to snap as any defensive lineman in this draft. Plays stronger than his listed weight. Stays square against the run and leverages his run gaps. Plus hand-eye coordination. Has what scouts call "snap-winning" hand usage against run or pass. Relentless in pursuit. Frenetic off snap, giving tackles darting movement inside and out. Has power and toughness to set the edge and turn plays back inside. Leverage rusher who can dip shoulder and turn corner as well as bull-rush weaker tackles. Has lightning-quick spin move but needs to sharpen technique when using it. Held his own against Tennessee this year with a sack and two tackles for loss.
WEAKNESSES Marginal upfield burst by NFL standards. Needs to instill more fear around the edge to open up room for his inside moves. Short arms. Long tackles can get to his chest and divert his rush track. Racked up gaudy stats against inferior competition. Average athlete with average size. Won with great hands and effort, but athletic NFL tackles could stymie those traits. Too small to play defensive end and has limited experience standing up.

NFL COMPARISON Dan Skuta

BOTTOM LINE Tull uses smarts, skill and toughness to dominate his level of competition. Tull has the athleticism to play outside linebacker in an odd front and his relentless nature and ability to outplay expectations could make him an NFL surprise.

Sorry Vers, I know this really doesn't go with your thread topic. But I guess it does follow in terms of not being educated about this draft.

This is the first time that I can remember that I have had zero interest in scouting talent in the draft. The first time I can remember not having any interest in a draft. I've simply become apathetic to it all.

I won't get into trashing the FO or anything else because it would only serve to disrupt your thread. It's actually a pattern that goes well beyond any single regime. But needless to say the way I feel about it has severely impacted a time of year I'm normally very active and anticipatory. It really sucks.

Thanks for the information, guys..........and Pit, I do understand.

I hope we get more responses. I know there are a lot of guys that really study the draft. Educate us.

Vers - Someone (Django?) suggested that we start threads for individual player evaluations. If you look back through this forum you should be able to find quite a few that have already been done. I would guess a good 15 maybe 20.

Yes, I remember that. I also thought it was a great idea.

However, those threads did NOT get a lot of attention and that disappointed me because I thought Dj had a great idea.

I've been thinking about it and I was wondering if they didn't get a lot of attention because they were spread out. Thus, I took his idea and tried to put it into one thread.

Dj was right and it was a great idea. I would just like to see more info put out than all these stupid-ass mock draft threads.

I am hoping that Dj lends his thoughts here. We don't get along, but I know he studies the draft. steve is excellent at this stuff. There are many others who have expertise. I just want a knowledge based thread about prospects rather than all the Mock Draft threads. Not saying to not do them, because people love getting their name out there. I am just saying this could be a real football thread.

Even more importantly, there are guys like me that want to learn. What's so bad about that?

Yet, I can see this is not a popular subject. I did try and take Dj's idea and adjust to promote more intelligent conversation, but it does not seem to be a popular topic.

I tried............... [shrug]

A big part of the problem is that it takes a lot of time to find and review film then summarize.

To help spur things along consider picking a prospect and asking a question about him.Whether very general like "what do you think about Vic Beasley", middle of the road like "who would you pick between Kevin White and DaVante Parker if both are available at 12?" or very specific like "how good are Sammie Coates' hands?".

Alternatively you could ask something like "which DT is the beset vs the run?".


I think this topic is so broad that once you give some direction the information will start to flow.

j/c

A question that would help myself and possibly others for this thread:

What site or sites do you use when you are doing your research and evaluations of a player? (basically same question) Which one or ones do you think give the best detailed evaluation of a player?

http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/draft

Its the one i use most often. Rob knows his stuff and although I often disagree with him, I do have a lot of respect for him. Pete Prisco generally is pretty good on getting a feel for what teams are sniffing around what positions imho better than anyone out there.

cbs basically bought out draftscout a couple years ago, which i felt was the best out there for reports on players.

NFL Draft is powered by the sports exchange website.

http://www.nfldraftscout.com/members/index.php

I also use draft countdown

http://www.draftcountdown.com/

ourlads (which has a good FA tracker

http://www.ourlads.com/

New Era scouting

http://www.newerascouting.com/?c=17

You can also find the espn stuff at espn

http://insider.espn.go.com/nfl/draft/mock/?season=2015

Anything from Mayock at NFL.com is always good. I tend to agree with him more than not, but you wont find very many detailed analyses.. and he generally does not go deeper than the top 5 players at any position.

Some of the sites above are require membership for more detailed information.

I like http://draftbreakdown.com/rankings/ to watch players and make my own judgements. They have cutups of players with the player pointed out (usually) so you can easily find and track him. You can watch all of a guys plays in 7-15 minutes. It allows you to search by player name. What I like to do is pick the game vs the best team.

Downside is that they don't have games for all the players yet and of the ones they do some only have one game from the 2015 season.

In addition to some of ChargerDawgs sites, I like http://gbnreport.com

Make sure to look at the tab for Pigskin's Paul Page
They also have a huge links page to give you other sites to checkout.

awesome, thanks guys

CBS has a draft site that includes a "player compares to" part. I realize these might not be accurate but it is fun to think about the guys that we do know when trying to decide whom to draft. It might be fun to assume these guys will end up the way they were compared and see what we would like to do in the draft. Anyway, here it is:

Leonard Williams = Gerald McCoy
Jameis Winston = Ben Rothlisberger
Dante Fowler = Terrell Suggs
Amari Cooper = Marquise Lee
Vic Beasley = Von Miller
Kevin White = Darrius Heywood Bey
Marcus Mariota = Colin Kaepernick
Randy Gregory = Aldon Smith
Shane Ray = Bruce Irvin
Brandon Scherff = Zach Martin
Danny Shelton = Vince Wilfork
Davante Parker = AJ Green
Trae Waynes = Kyle Fuller
La'el Collins = James Carpenter
Alvin Dupree = Kam Wimbley
Malcom Brown = Arthur Jones
Landon Collins = TJ Ward
Todd Gurley = Marshawn Lynch
Andrus Peat = D'Brickshaw Ferguson
Jaelen Strong = Dwayne Bowe
Ereck Flowers = Andrew Whitworth
Melvin Gordon = Reggie Bush
Dorial Green Beckham = Julio Jones
Maxx Williams = Jason Witten
Brett Hundley = Randal Cunningham

Someone on here, can't remember if it was cfrs or ThatGuy, said something that I liked... "Nobody is anybody else."

This is my second first round selection for the Browns. He can give us something in both run defense and pass rush. I think he's good enough to take a 19 but I could understand trading down to about 23 and taking him there. I think he can be a 3-4 OLB.

DraftBrowns.com Editor: Brendan Leister

Mississippi State defensive end Preston Smith is one of the most talented defensive linemen I have come across while studying prospects for the 2015 NFL Draft class. At 6’5″, 271 lbs. with 10 5/8″ hands, 34″ arms, and a broad physique, Smith has good size for the position with room to add weight. He will turn 23 during his rookie season.

The first things that stand out when watching Preston Smith are his active, violent hand usage and athleticism for his size. Smith regularly uses his long arms to keep linemen from getting their hands on him. In the run game, he shows the ability to lock out his arms to hold at the point while reading the backfield. Once the ball carrier nears Smith, he shows the ability to quickly disengage from the block and converge to make the tackle. He is a sure tackler who does not miss often. He plays the game with a chip on his shoulder and looks like he takes it personally when he does not win his individual matchup. The level of aggressiveness and enthusiasm that he plays with are impressive.

Smith is a fluid athlete who is impressive in confined areas and in space. He has experience playing everywhere on the defensive line from the zero and one-technqiues in sub-packages to the three, five, seven, and nine-technqiues along with standing up on the edge. He even has experience dropping in coverage from multiple spots.

On the inside, Smith shows violent Swim, Rip, and Push-Pull moves, which allow him to defeat blockers and make plays in the backfield. His first step is good and he does a very good job of anticipating the snap count. On the edge, Smith lacks the natural flexibility to bend and win consistently, but he makes up for it at times with his hand usage, ability to convert speed to power, and a quick inside move. He also does a good job of reading the backfield and getting his hands up to bat down the pass when he knows he cannot get to the quarterback. Smith shows a very high motor when rushing the passer and working to stop the run. He plays with a good pad level and does a very good job of using his length to defeat cut block attempts.

Overall, Preston Smith is exactly what I would want if I were a team in need of a five-technique with versatility to play the seven and also slide inside to rush the passer in sub-packages. He is stout at the point of attack and shows the ability to set the edge consistently in the run game. As a pass rusher, Smith is a mismatch on the inside due to his length, explosiveness, and array of moves. He has a talent for rushing from the interior and should be highly productive against centers and guards on passing downs. When we look back, I expect Preston Smith to be one of the better players from this draft class.

I think this player will be available for us at 43. In my opinion his has the best instincts of any LB prospect available in this draft. Consistently he is in the right place to make plays...and he makes them. He has an innate ability to slip blockers when penetrating the LOS. He has adequate short area pass coverage skills. He creates turn overs. His timed speed may keep him on the board long enough for the Browns to draft him.

Scout's Dave-Te Thomas breaks down TCU linebacker Paul Dawson.

Paul Dawson has a developing frame with good overall muscle development. He displays toned arms, tight waist, broad shoulders, thick chest, thick thighs, good bubble and knotted calves. He added fifteen pounds of bulk to his frame the last two seasons, but has just adequate timed speed and will also need to add more weight to compete in the NFL.
Dawson compensates for a lack of good speed with quick recognition skills and the agility needed to recover when beaten. He is effective taking on ball carriers and dropping back in pass coverage, adding a new “wrinkle” to his game as a developing pass rusher during his senior season. He’s a solid playmaker, evident by his 227 tackles the last two seasons for the Horned Frog, based on twenty starting assignments combined at two different positions.
Dawson is a good athlete with just fluid hip snap, and shows he has a good short area burst, agility, and a physical demeanor. He plays at a low pad level and has the wrap-up skills to stop the forward progress of a runner and enough slippery moves to get past blockers when blitzing or coming off the edge. He has just adequate strength, but is active using his hands to gain leverage and shed. He also is quite effective at using his wing span to reach out and drag down ball carriers from behind or just wrap and secure them.
The Horned Frog plays with good focus on plays in front of him though and knows what to do once he locates the ball near the line. He is a decent student and needs only normal reps to retain. He plays with good alertness in the box, doing a nice job of picking up blocking schemes.
The thing you notice on film is that Dawson does not have great strength to escape when he gets attacked in traffic. Still, despite giving up considerable bulk, he will not hesitate to combat vs. the larger offensive linemen. He just does not fit and fold well and can stone-walled by bigger blockers when playing a nine-tech. He is not the type that will maul a ball carrier, but does generate a good thud on contact. He is an efficient leverage player, tough and is not only combative, he uses his hands with force to play off blocks (has above average rip and club moves).
Dawson has a valid hand jolt to reroute tight ends and receivers, doing a nice job of directing the opponent’s release. He is the type that plays bigger than his size indicates, using good wrap-up technique to compensate for a lack of “blow ‘em up” type of power, but he will shock and opponent with an effective hand punch.
The senior uses his hands more effectively to keep blockers off his feet. He demonstrates the natural hands needed to be efficient as a pass thief, stealing four tosses while breaking up five other throws in 2014. He gets most of his success vs. the pass because he knows how to use his reach and leaping ability to high point the ball. He is also agile enough to escape blockers to work around the ball carrier in attempts to dislodge the ball from the runner.
With six sacks and twenty stops behind the line of scrimmage last season, Dawson demonstrated why he is regarded as an above average wrap-up tackler, as he is equally productive working in space and behind the line. He likes playing over the tight end and is a physical striker who brings a good thump upon impact and will jar the ball loose when he attacks the ball carrier’s body (three forced fumbles, recovering two in 2014). It is rare to see him try to take a side or get his hands outside his frame when zeroing in on a runner in the open field.
While Dawson is a quick reactor who hits with a thud, he is much more effective using his vision to locate the free lane needed in order to make plays in-line (knows that if he tries to overpower the offensive lineman too much, it will result in him failing to shed quickly). He shows good leverage on the move and when given a clear lane and can run down hill to fill.
At 4.93 speed, some teams might be concerned about his range to make the tackle on outside running plays. Even at that timed speed, his fluid hips gives him lots of chances to generate a sudden burst needed to head off the ball carriers near the sidelines. In the last two years, he has gotten much smarter and plays under control. He is a good trailer type than can not only run down plays from the back side, but he also showed that he has valid straight-line quickness to combine with his lateral agility to negate anything the stopwatch says about his speed.
Dawson seems to have good vision and timing to anticipate the flight of the ball in pass coverage. He might not have the speed to cover past the short-to-intermediate areas, but he does come out of his backpedal without having to gather in order to accelerate. He gets good depth in his pass drops and his success as a ball thief was the senior doing a nice job of keeping his head on a swivel.
Dawson also has zone awareness, building off of the receivers’ switches and getting depth in his drops. He does not eyeball the quarterback too long and has a good understanding for zone concepts, as he quickly anticipates and shows good urgency to react to the thrown ball.
Dawson gets a good push off the blocker when he uses his hands, but on the times when he just short arms, it results in him getting absorbed inside. He gives total effort coming off the edge and shows explosion when left uncontested. He seems to generate a better burst with his hand on the ground than when in a normal linebacker’s stance, thanks to his straight-ahead speed.
Paul Dawson NFL Scouting Combine measurables

6-0/235 (4.93 forty)
31 1/2-inch arm length
9 1/2-inch hands
21-reps
28-inch vertical jump
109-inch broad jump
4.49 20 yard shuttle

Liked what I read about Preston Smith so I went and watched somefilm on him.

I liked what I saw. If he puts on 10-15# he could be a very good (potentially impact) 3-4 DE. I don't see any way he could move to 3-4 OLB. He has good in-line speed but isn't agile and athletic enough for OLB.

Yeah I see where you're coming from on the OLB position change, I felt the same way initially. This is why I'm giving it consideration.

He ran a 4.74 at the combine, his 3 Cone was 7.07 and his 60 yard shuttle was 11.70. Those are three solid indicators of movement skills. I may have overstated his projection as an OLB but at multiple positions Smith can help this team.

Also there are these reports from Tony Pauline that can be found on Walterfootball...

Mississippi State
I'm learning more from the Mississippi State pro-day.

Teams came away very impressed with the versatility Preston Smith displayed. He was quick and fast off the edge in defensive line drills and also fluid in linebacker drills.

Mississippi State
Earlier I mentioned Benardrick McKinney meeting with the New York Jets. I also learned defensive lineman Preston Smith is meeting with the Cleveland Browns and four additional teams. Kaleb Eulls, who was one of the bigger combine snubs, will also be meeting with a host of teams.
Read more at http://walterfootball.com/proday.php#lfx5a7DfgvmRrbDo.99

Steve wrote the following in the "12th & 19th Pick" thread. That was closed before I could ask my question...

"For the life of me I can't figure out what to do with our 3rd round pick. I think I'm good with a combination of either Malcom Brown and Nelson Agholor or Davante Parker and Carl Davis for the first round. I think I'd even take Brown and Davis. Second round I'm pretty locked in on Clive Walford. Third round, there's no pass rusher to take there unless I'm completely forgetting someone, no corner. Maybe Mitch Morse as a swing tackle? Matias or Miller at guard? A running back like Duke Johnson or Tevin Coleman? Anthony, Kendricks, and McKinney will likely all be gone by now but if one were left I'd take him there. If we lose a draft pick I hope it would be this one or later. Fourth round I like either Gallik or Garcia at center, then probably just look for the best value of any player in the fourth. Fifth... Why the heck not, take Fowler. Sixth I'm thinking a Pirate, take Terry Williams unless I took two DL in the first then take Cam Worthy. For the other pick take a pass rusher... Tull if he's there or Rasco or Wagenmann or Emanuel. There will be options at that positon late, I think. Seventh I take Gunter if he's still around... Bad 40 time and all. He's a good player."

You mention several intriguing players in this post. Specifically about Carl Davis, I've read in more than one place, that he seems to disappear in terms of production for long stretches of games. Given his obvious talent this is both puzzling and a real concern to some personnel evaluators. Then I also read that he seems to be a very mercurial personality where you don't know what you're getting with this guy emotionally or mentally. In some pre-draft interview he supposedly stated his preference to come off the field at certain times. I can't be the only one who has read about these issues. Steve, others what are your thoughts?

I think he is a lot like Phil Taylor, in his ability to completely dominate any play that he wants to, but doesn't have the psyche or physical skillset or endurance or whatever it is to maintain it over a long period of time, or even for half the snaps in a game. He's extremely strong, has over 34" arms, and when he explodes off the ball he can drop a RB 4 yards in the backfield. Iowa played him in a LOT of snaps, but I think we have the horses to maximize his play with limited snaps.

For years I remember the 3rd round to be the one we should just trade...lol

Who ever was on our 3-4 player list of 2nd round targets that is still there is who we will take.

If we take a Mannion I wouldn't mind taking it here.

OK, thanks. I'm not necessarily one of those who thinks a first round draft pick has to be on the field every play and dominate every snap to avoid the bust label. So given our team needs, his talent and his temperament I understand your reasoning.

Next question, different player/position. I'm fixated on Flip's conception of the "F" player. I'm not sure its what he's talking about related to replacing Cameron who is more of a flex-TE. We'll still need that too. If Marcel Reece is the archetype of the "F" then what draft prospects could do those things? I have some candidates:

Jalston Fowler
MyCole Pruitt
Gerald Christian
Dominique Brown

Thought? Other options?

At TE I really like Clive Walford. I think he is a real complete TE. I think we might be wasting some of his talent if we line him up in the slot, though, as he is a good blocker.

Honestly, with ten picks I wouldn't be upset if we took two TEs if they were both good players. If O'Leary makes it to the 4th like some of the projections are showing now I'd definitely pull the trigger on that. He reminds me a lot of Dallas Clark with how he catches the ball.

As an alternative, there are a couple potential UDFA prospects that I think are good candidates for that F role in Utah's Westlee Tonga and Chattanooga's Faysal Shafaat. Tonga I would want us to draft starting in the fifth were it not for his age... He's LDS and 27 when the season starts. Shafaat runs really good routes and can extend to make some really nice catches from the videos I've seen online.

I share your opinion on Walford.

Coming in I wanted O'Leary. pretty solid all around. But mostly cause Jack Nicklaus would be at all our games and a Browns fan. He's one of my favorite sports heroes that I have had. So I would have two at our games. Jack and Jim Brown! Impossible to get Roberto Clemente there and I don't know how to convince Oscar Robertson...lol

jmho

j/c

Had some free time today so, I'll add some stuff that I posted on another board to here:

QB:
Bryce Petty: Sometimes he looks absolutely incredible with some of his throws, but I see a pattern develop. His ball placement isn't very good with his accuracy and his deep throws are always over shot just a little bit. He's always calm on the field and he really knows how to relax and not play in a panic. I like him, but he needs some work with some stuff that I'm not sure you can ever teach, he'll probably never be that franchise guy.

Garrett Grayson: The guy is a mechanical mess. Throwing off his back foot, his arm motion is weird and he takes a little too long to get rid of the ball, longer than I'd like. All that being said, he has power, accuracy, ball placement...all of it is really good. He's doesn't like it when getting chased, and likes to go down before getting hit. He needs some work on mechanics and pocket presence, but overall when throwing the ball, he's not far behind Winston, IMO.

Brandon Bridge: I am in love with this man. He played weak opponents and was hardly ever really rushed to throw, but this guy man...he's a sleeper. He has Joe Flacco type arm strength and is very mobile. He's huge and can grow into his body. He ran a 4.67 at his pro day. He has that typical strong arm QB syndrome where he fits the ball into tight windows and can get picked off. He doesn't scan the field yet, very very raw at reading a defense. Give this guy 2 or 3 years and he could become an absolute stud, has everything working for him.

I only watched one Tackle cuz...I don't want the Browns to select one early.

Erick Flowers looks good. He's strong, mobile, moves to the second level with ease. He is a lot like Schwartz, but more mobile. His a good pass protector but thrives when going man on man in the run game. He'd...be a good fit.

DT:
Danny Shelton: My favorite prospect I watched. The guy moves, maybe, 3 yards every play, but when a team tries to stupidly run up the middle, this guy takes on two at once and just owns everyone. I don't know how a guy that big can squeeze into such a tight spaces. He is Vince Wilfork, I'm telling you that right now. He has poor mobility and won't ever get more than a few sacks a year. But this man is a block eater to the max, and would keep our MLB as clean as they have ever been. He makes Phil Taylor look like a little kid. I'd take him at 12 and never look back.

Malcolm Brown: Good player, reminds me a lot of John Hughes. Absolutely not a NT unless you want to go back to the days of Rubin at NT. Good speed, good agility for a guy his size. Decent pass rusher, with surprisingly good moves. Good against the run but can be outmuscled. I'm not sure if he is strong or just a big guy to takes up space. Doesn't really move anyone or stand his ground that great. I wasn't impressed since I was looking at him as more of a NT instead of a 5-tech. If they would draft him as an end, I'd feel he would be ok.

OLB:
Bud Dupree: I really don't like him. He is listed as kind of a bigger OLB, but he sure doesn't play like it. I'm totally and wholly unimpressed with his pass rush skills. He got absolutely stonewalled by Florida for most of the game. His pass coverage wasn't as good either. His run defense is pretty good, played a really disciplined game. As a pure pass rusher, I just did not see him as a threat. Where he is likely to get picked, I'd have to pass on him in the scheme the Browns run.

Nate Orchard: Reminds me a lot of Jabaal Sheard. He's a more natural 3-4 OLB and has pass rushing skills that are more raw than Sheard had. If he develops, he could become a really good pass rusher, because of how he plays. He does have a pretty darn good swim move right now, though. He plays really tough and with a lot of energy, although he's not a show off on the field and he does lack the ultra aggressiveness that Fowler has in spades. He shines in the run defense game. He is disciplined and holds his ground. When rushing the passer, he doesn't try to assault you with moves. More than likely, he'll try a move and if it doesn't work, he is neutralized. Still raw in that area. All the tools are there, though.

While you're looking at edge rushers, look at Odighizua. I read he had hip surgery and dropped it without looking at video. Then I read some others on the board raving about him, so I went back and watched. I am impressed. j/c since you've taken the time, what you might think.

I appreciate the information, guys.

Thanks.

Thoughts:

-Looks like Tarzan, plays like Tarzan. Holy crap is this guy built. 6'3", 270 LB wrecking ball of destruction sometimes.

-There are times where he has everything clicking and it is just beautiful to watch. He put a prison beating on USC. He dominated, at times, Virginia tackle.

-Then there are times where he is just kinda there. He doesn't move laterally well, and his pursuit isn't as good as someone who should be an elite run stopper.

-I love the way he plays when standing up. He can put his hand in the dirt, but I think he's more explosive when he stands up to start.

-Pass rushing moves were functional in college but needs to get more fluid and develop more. His spin move could become lethal if he tightens it up more.

-Incredibly strong at the point of attack. Does a really good job at sealing the edge. He can become an elite run stopper in the NFL at the word go.

-I like him a lot. It seems, though, that he isn't as fluid as he should be. Could be problems with his hip/knee? I don't know, but he looks like a guy who should be a top ten player but does not perform consistently enough. His effort level is extremely high, though.

Seemed to me as I watched him through the season that his play declined. Not as quick off the snap, not getting in the backfield... I think the injuries were carching up with him. I'm worried it's something thats always going to bother him.

I would agree with that. He doesn't seem like an every down player, because as the game wore on he got a little more sloppy.

Good player, would be a good rotational player, but not the every down stud that he should be looking at him.

Worth a 2nd round pick as a pass rushing specialist who could transition into a starting LOLB after Kruger?

Common sense would say limited snaps would negate his wearing down and a professional staff of coaching and health specialists could turn him into a true terror to take over for Kruger in 2018? Similar to Hughes' development now.

Playing with the Draft simulator I wanted DL at 19 and Malcom Brown was gone. So I took a real hard look at Carl Davis. Went back and looked at his cut-ups and it confirmed what you and draft profiles say. He's extremely talented and could line up at any DL position in our defense. I don't see much difference between his ability and that of Brown but with his reputation I went OLB at 19 but did draft him at 43.

I'd like to think that the presences of Chris Kirksey to lead him (both Iowa alumns) and the lockeroom culture in general would coax the best from him. If so he could be a DL stud.

I think his injury history slowed his play during the season, but he was a force in the bowl game against Kansas State.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S8AdCCOD4iw

I found this on Randy Gregory on another sight.

Thanks Demo...excellent football learning tool as well as evaluating Gregory.

So I looked at the list of players the Browns have either talked with, went to their pro day, or have had visit. I'm going to look at every player I can and give a little synopsis, if anyone is interested.

Nelson Agholor, WR, USC (COM): Ultra fast. For a big guy, he has incredible speed. Excellent punt returner. His punt return against Arizona State was Ted Ginn like. I've seen some people say that his measurable are almost exactly like Maclin. I can tell, because he looks like him. Absolutely abused the secondary for Standford. He runs some fantastic routes and loses no speed in change of direction. Wears 15, our old friend Mr. Little, although Agholor has better hands, but does drop some. Most of them are short yardage that he starts to look up field. Can take a 5 yard curl and turn it into 50 in a flash. Wow this guy is good. He outran Washington State like they were standing still. Absolutely must improve his blocking if he wishes to go to the outside. He lined up everywhere for USC, including RB, Slot, TE. He may not be ready to be a starter year 1, but he can come in and electrify an offense. Exciting potential and someone I'd keep an eye on.

Mario Alford, WR, West Virginia (COM): Hawkins like size. Has decent speed, hard to tell because I don't see any prospect video's on him. Unfortunate, because he seems like a guy who I'd like in the later rounds. The Browns really like shorter, quicker prospects. Cannot comment on him any further.

Cameron Artis-Payne, RB, Auburn (PRO): Good runner. Solid, solid pass catcher. Needs to improve on his blocking a little bit as he can be overwhelmed at times. Good vision as a runner with decent speed. Runs really hard and more of a straight line runner. Isn't going to make you miss. The way he picks apart a defense reminds me of Crowell. He is really good on screens and draw plays. Runs through traffic really well, not easily taken down.

Blake Bell, TE, Oklahoma (EW%): Can be an effective blocker. Really has a huge frame that can stand to add more weight and lean. He is a former QB, so learning a new position all of a sudden he hasn't had time to get his body right. His hands are pretty good, could be a really effective redzone guy. Not the type of gamebreaker we need at TE, more of a Dray type TE.

Brett Boyko, OT, UNLV (EW): Uhhhh....yeah, he's uh...6'7"...301 pounds...and no tape. Seems like a lot of the different sites are saying he lacks athleticism, which looks obvious since he ran a blistering 5.6 40 yard dash. If a video ever pops up, I'll review it, otherwise, moving on...

j/c

I've become increasingly less enthused about the better known NT prospects. I don't think Shelton is a true 2-gap NT. I don't think Phillips plays with enough consistent effort. I like Jarrett but not sure he can play the 0-technique. Anyway, enter David Parry, Standford DT, 6'1", 308 Lbs. With the shortage of 0-technique players in this year's draft class he'll be off the board in round 4.

OVERVIEW
Selected honorable mention All-Pac-12 in 2014 and was semifinalist for Bulsworth Trophy, which is awarded to nation's top player who began career as walk-on. Did not play against Oregon State due to leg injury. Played in all 41 games from 2011-2013 with 12 starts. Played offensive and defensive tackle in high school. Was selected first-team All-State and team MVP as a senior.

PRO DAY RESULTS
20-yard short shuttle: 4.43 seconds
Three-cone drill: 7.5 seconds
ANALYSIS
STRENGTHS Stocky, powerful frame. Former walk-on who plays with a chip on his shoulder. Explodes out of stance and into linemen with force. Always the low man and has the pure power to withstand double teams. Power to two-gap with underrated short-area quickness to penetrate. Uses play strength and leverage to balance against and overwhelm redirect attempts when he gets on lineman's edge. Active hands and above average at unlocking and discarding when ready to tackle. Active pass rusher from interior. Understands how to run twist game up front. Collapses pockets with bull-rush when single blocked and has short-area movement and power to create as a rusher.
WEAKNESSES Needs more pure girth in order to hold up to NFL double teams. Questions about whether frame is maxed out. Short, stubby arms and legs. Can be disrupted by length of tall guards on down blocks. Loses juice when his pass rush gets fanned wide. Plays unfold just a shade out of his limited reach. Get-off just okay. Can be limited when he's not first to the punch. Played just 49 percent of the snaps this season.
NFL COMPARISON Stephen Paea
BOTTOM LINE Underrated former walk-on with a chip on his shoulder and a mean streak to go with it. Rotational defensive lineman with explosive power coming from relatively modest frame by nose tackle standards. Can play in an odd or even front and has strength and functional quickness to be a factor against the run while creating push and pocket disruption against the pass.

Didn't feel like starting a new thread for this but couldn't find a more appropriate thread to put it in so I am putting it here because this is a part of evaluating a player.


Report: Jameis Winston expected to face second rape-related accusation
By Sander Philipse  @Sanderrp on Apr 3, 2015, 4:19p 674


The biggest story in Jameis Winston's career so far hasn't been his on-field prowess, but the fact that he was accused of rape. That accusation has played out publicly and as a result has garnered a lot of attention, although Winston was never found guilty in any of the investigations he went through.

One overlooked part of those investigations is the mention of a second woman who was troubled by her sexual encounter with Winston. Jason Cole of Bleacher Report now says that "multiple sources" expect a second accuser to come forward, either as part of the first accuser's civil suit, or as part of her own lawsuit.

"Jameis Winston is going to be subject to a civil lawsuit going forward," Jason Cole said. "Currently, the alleged [first] victim has already filed a lawsuit against Florida State, is expected to include Jameis Winston either as part of that lawsuit, or as part of a separate civil lawsuit somewhere down the line.

"And finally, there's a second woman who claims to have had an encounter with Jameis Winston in 2013. There's some expectation out there among multiple sources that she may come forward as part of that civli suit, and either file her own civil action, or at least testify on behalf of the first alleged victim."

Cole also noted that neither the Bucs nor the NFL have spoken to Winston's accuser, nor reached out to their representation, legal or otherwise. That's not necessarily surprising: calling rape survivors to ask them to talk about their rapists' character is not something anyone does lightly, because that carries the strong risk of re-victimization. Would you trust an NFL team investigating someone they want to heavily invest in, to treat your feelings respectfully in an interview, and to respect your boundaries? On the other hand, Sharona of @SportsBySharona correctly points out that either entity could simply go through her lawyer.

This second accuser, if she's the same woman who was mentioned by the New York Times, did not initially call her encounter with Winston rape, but she was troubled enough by what happened to seek counseling. While this may seem like a strong indicator that nothing untoward happened, this is actually sadly common in rape cases -- it's why RAINN has an entire page devoted to the question "was I raped?" There's also the possibility that something happened that most wouldn't classify as rape, but still violated her consent. Of course, it may be nothing serious, either.

It's worth noting that at this point, none of that is the case: there is no second accusation, at least not publicly. But if there does turn out to be a second accusation of rape against Winston, that would be a major problem. We've all seen how people have turned a blind eye to rape accusations in the past -- most recently in the case of Bill Cosby, but also with Woody Allen, fashion photographer Terry Richardson, Darren Sharper's days as a serial rapist after being an NFL superstar, and of course Ben Roethlisberger -- who was accused of rape twice, and never charged or convicted.

It is, of course, important to remember that Winston was never found guilty. I don't know whether or not he's guilty. I don't think anyone outside of the two parties involved truly knows. But regardless of legal punishment, I still don't feel comfortable rooting for someone where there's even a little doubt about whether or not he raped someone.

Of course, I'm not the one who gets to make the choice of whether or not Winston becomes a Buccaneer. That's up to Jason Licht, Lovie Smith and the Glazers. And they're going to have to try their hardest to get to the bottom of all of this, if they can, and decide whether they want Winston representing their franchise -- potentially for the next 20 years.


http://www.bucsnation.com/2015/4/3/83412...ated-accusation

At the risk of sounding like a knuckle-dragger, second thoughts or "buyer's remorse" is not a license to accuse a soon-to-be-rich young man of rape. He may be a creep of epic proportions, but the 2nd woman mentioned in the article has damaged her credibility. No means no, but not retroactively.

j/c

Would it be crazy Browns drafting both Danny Shelton and Malcom Brown at #12 and #19? This draft favors interior OL in later rounds. I think edge rushers go quick too. If BPA is the strategy, is any OL a better option than these two DL? Browns OL and DL would certainly be set for a few years. I look to St. Louis and their four first round DL as an example.

If not DL and second option, I more see Farmer/Pettine drafting Trae Waynes, Landon Collins, or Marcus Peters. Pettine is big on secondary.

Third option drafting a receiver. Later rounds more options for offensive players.

Its a shame there are few morals left. What I don't like is in some cases its just extortion. But my fear is that there will be real rape victims not believed because of what is going on. Hey, there are many drunken parties going on in college...maybe I'm dating myself? so now its Pot? Point is a lot of sex I can assume still goes on (I'm from the mid 70's era known as the sex and drug era - but drinking age was 18). So now all this OH no what did I do are going to come up as charges.

Who is going to filter out the real rape from the fake one...in the end the real rape will get lost in the shuffle...terrible.

Meanwhile does this mean Winston drops down to 12? Or all this was a known thing considering it was 2 years ago.

jmho

Just a pre-draft smokescreen put out by some GM.

I was actually able to read that dark purple usually impossible.

Actually it was one of my first thoughts...2015 version of Dan Marino...now not injury too easy to prove wrong. Throw that Drug or Social dysfunction out there...dug up by the Titans some old news - he can't get away from that Freshman year...away from home and well no need to explain. I just wish there was some way to know what is real and what isn't. I'd like to see 2014 or 2015 to show he has a problem (well I don't really wish to see that) I mean to keep going back to 2013 and what is real and what isn't. I don't wish to be insensitive to the females and I don't wish for a guy with a bright future have it torn down by False accusations.

Talent wise...in a heart beat I would go get him...but now is he up there with Gregory and DG-B in this Draft.

Jmhdon't have a clue what to think on this.

I am not a fan of Winston, but something smells a bit fishy here. If it were true, why skip criminal court and only focus on civil court?

It reeks of someone looking for money. I am NOT saying that is the case, but to bypass criminal court and only go after Winston in civil court is a red flag to me.

There is less burden of proof required in civil cases. The DA/Prosecutor can choose not to pursue a criminal case because they know the quality of the cover up won't leave enough evidence to convict criminally.

Not sure , but I think a civil case is brought by an individual and the burden of proof is much less... the result can run a financial gambit form a small award to one quite substantial... .

The criminal case is brought by a prosecutor.. higher burden of proof and more black / white in the resolution... guilty or not guilty.

That said and not to marginalize the victim... you are correct Vers many times these civil suits are brought to garner money not seek justice... again NOT SAYING this is the case here... it may be as Grimm noted the prosecutor does feel he has a case so will not pursue at this time, (if more info arises then he can pursue)and this is the only justice the victim feels she can get.

its in civil court because the police didnt do their do diligence investigating the case in the beginning.

Tallahasee police also allowed both starting CBs for FSU to get away with a hit and run while being intoxicated and nothing happended. And that was this year.

+1

Regarding a second case of alleged sexual misconduct; where there's smoke, there's usually fire. I've said this before, I don't care how talented Winston is, I don't want him.

Thanks for all the replies, guys. Good information.

I don't know if anyone reads these or whatever, but I figure I'll throw in some more of my own person scouting takes on some more players that the Browns have shown some interest in.

Brian Blechen, OLB/SS, Utah (WOR): Literally can find 0 info about him. NFL Draft Scout says he's a UDFA. Big, 6-2 216lbs.

Bryce Callahan, CB, Rice (PRI): Again, can't find anything. Small, 5-9, but ran a 4.32 and had a 43.5 inch vert at his pro day.

Ibraheim Campbell, S, Northwestern: A heat seeking missile on defense, this guy like to hurt you. He can tackle with authority, and really give a good wallop. More ball-hawking than coverage maven in pass defense. Does keep the guys in front of him, but I'm afraid of what will happen in the NFL. Slow at diagnosing plays. Slow to pick up his man on pass coverage. Will start out as a special teamer, but can really bloom into an aggressive, run stopping safety.

Cameron Clear, TE, Texas A&M: Huge. Absolute monster. Inconsistent with his hands, inconsistent blocker. Appears to be slow. I don't like him at all. I heard he was advertised as a big guy with good hands and playmaking ability. I don't see it. Lucky to be drafted, IMO.

T.J. Clemmings, OT, Pittsburgh: Good run blocker. When he squares up and seals his man, he takes him totally out of the play. Inconsistent at getting to the 2nd level, and sometimes doesn't pick out the right man to block. Lots of power, although he is a little slow at getting off the line so he doesn't have the impact block. Really raw in technique. I don't know how he is going to fair in the Pros when it comes to pass blocking. There were times where he really got beat badly on the outside. Looks like a guard to me in pass protection, he cannot handle the speed. We would be better off not taking him and keep Schwartz, IMO. Not a fan before the third round as I think he is absolutely a OG, not a Tackle.

Sammie Coates, WR, Auburn (PRO): Having watched a lot of Coates, the guy can be at times one of the most impressive players on the field. Unfortunately, his hands are really, really inconsistent, his routes aren't consistent, and I'm not sure if I see it in the cards for him to be anything more than just a deep threat. His size, speed and power are all really impressive, and he can make the spectacular look easy, but he needs work. Not a bad choice for the late 2nd, or early 3rd, but I think he's a guy you are always going to wonder how good he could be.

Justin Coleman^, CB, Tennessee (EW, INT): Looks better in press man than anything else. His hips are as fluid as you like and he doesn't flip them quick enough to stay with NFL WR. Excellent in the running game and setting an edge. As I watch him play, I wonder if he would be more of a safety in the NFL? Plays with a lot of discipline in the running game, not worrying so much about chasing behind the play but instead making sure the runner doesn't flip the field. Solid tackler. Looks like he could be a hell of a gunner on special teams.

La'el Collins^, OT, LSU (SR, COM): Good run blocker, although at times he can get shed kind of easy. This guy is absolutely not an NFL tackle. If he plays tackle, he will get someone murdered, because he is just not quick enough to seal the edge rushers. His pass blocking, when the guy isn't trying to run past him is solid enough. For a guy so big, I'm not sure why he gets shed so easy. I don't know how else to say this: He doesn't know how to use his hands. Not like in a technique way, like...use them at all. He is often blocking with forearms and arms. I really don't like him for where he is being projected.

Ricky Collins, WR, Texas A&M-Commerce (PRI): There is one video of him on the internet that I can find, and it is more of a WR highlight package than anything else. He does have really good size, and impressive speed although I wonder if it's just because of the competition. His route tree is undeveloped. Fly pattern, or curl, that's about it. Will need some work, interesting late round guy.

Titus Davis, WR, Central Michigan (PRO): Not a huge fan. His hands are inconsistent, although that could be a result of his QB trying to almost literally kill him. Despite running a 4.51, he looks slower than that. Kind of slow and his jumping ability is unimpressive. Could turn into a decent slot guy or possession guy if hands turn out to be a plus. He is really good in the end zone, I will say that. While I'm not impressed with his jumping, he seems to use every inch he can get when fighting for the ball and is constantly open in the redzone.

Dillon Day, C, Mississippi State (EW): This weirdo has blonde hair with blue highlights. Do not draft. But seriously, no tape, average size, hard to say anything about him. One thing that did come up on a google search is apparently he was extremely dirty in college. Interesting note.

Phillip Dorsett, WR, Miami (SR): This guy has speed to burn. He outruns everyone put on him. His route running was good enough for college, give him an NFL coach and I'm sure he'll improve. Has good hands and made a lot of catches in traffic. Surprisingly good blocker. This guy can be a really special slot WR/deep threat type guy. Just isn't big enough to be a real threat in the redzone. He can absolutely become a real threat in the NFL.

Alvin Dupree, OLB/DE/3-4OLB, Kentucky (PRO): Bud and I have already gone round and round. Total "what if" guy in the mold of Mingo. If you can get a guy to develop him, he could become an all time great. Right now, he's just numbers on a page, when he's on the field he under produces a ton.

Ereck Flowers^, OT, Miami (PRO, PRI): Yeah, this guy is going to be a good NFL tackle. Once again, a guy I've already seen a lot of tape on but the guy is just an outstanding blocker in the running game. Still needs a little bit of refinement as a tackle but he'll get it sorted out. Has the ability to play tackle and the footwork necessary to succeed.

Also, a side note: Duke Johnson is an amazing runner. I really, really hope the Browns are interested in him because I desperately want to watch his tape. Between Walford, Dorsett and Flowers, I've seen this guy a ton. I hope the Browns have the same feelings I do.

Eddie Goldman, DT/3-4DE/NT, Florida State (PRI): This guy is absolutely NOT a NT, let's just get that out of the way now. He has all the size, but any time he was double teamed, he was taken totally out of the picture. That being said, the moves and athletic ability of a guy his size, (6-4, 336 LBS) is beyond impressive. I have a feeling if I popped in Phil Taylor's highlights, I'd see roughly the same guy. Goldman does give a more consistent effort, though.

I read them and I appreciate your insight.

bbd,

Thanks for the comments. I was watching some of Campbell because of a mock draft I'm' participating in. He is a huge hitter for sure. Very good technique and the ball carrier is stopped in his tracks when he lines him up. However, he is a big-time liability in man coverage. Completely unable to keep up with RBs and TEs alike, due to both reaction/technique and raw speed. If you want a good hitter who can also cover, I strongly recommend checking out Anthony Jefferson, SS from UCLA. He's also projected to go much later than Campbell in the draft.

Somewhat share your opinion of Clemmings. The guy just cannot kickslide, but he might be the best drive run blocker in the class, and does most everything else pretty well. Personally, I'd rather have Flowers because he can block against speed, but Clemings definitely has something to work with. It's a gamble, though. Gotta rely on your coaching for the kickslide.

Dillon Day is a baller and I'd be pumped if we drafted him. I mentioned before on here he purposefully stomped on two guys after the play in the LSU game, though. I work with a guy who went to Miss St. and he said Day is from Louisiana and still bitter about not getting a scholarship to LSU. He was suspended for the next game against Texam A&M and Ben Beckwith (their usual RG) started at center and played like crap. I still don't understand how Beckwith is rated by anyone above Day.

Honestly I don't see in Dorsett what everyone else does. there must be some sort of bias preventing me from seeing it because IIRC he was first-team All-ACC. I just am not that impressed with him. Completely agree about Duke Johnson, though. Love that guy. All-time leading rusher and all-time leading all-purpose yards at the U. That's saying something.

I don't like Goldman much, either. He doesn't make any plays laterally at all.

I hear that the Northwestern safety has been moving up draft boards and may go as high as the 2nd round. I haven't seen him play or watched any video on him.

Agree with you on Dupree. Great size and speed but nothing on the field.

Agree with you on Goldman except that I would add that he didn't seem to be that stout when solo blocked either. I kept reading how he was stout against the run but not much of a pass rusher. I saw the opposite. He seemed to good penetration in the passing game but couldn't hold his ground vs the run.


Coates - I agree that at time he looks like the most dominant player on the field. Actually at times he looks like the most dominant receiver in college football. Other times he seems to disappear. Not sure why. I haven't seen the inconsistent hands but that doesn't mean anything because I haven't watched that much of him.

I think his route running combined with his just...incredible speed makes him a very serious deep threat for any team. I think I mentioned it above, but I'm not entirely sure if he'll ever be an outside receiver based on two things 1) his blocking is adequate but not for an outside WR and 2) non threat in the redzone.

As a future Hawkins replacement and future deep threat, I love him. I do kinda feel they have the same type of guy in Gabriel, though.



I'd be really tempted if I'm the Browns. At this point, you may as well get the best running game you can. What I've seen from Johnson is not only that game breaking ability, but he fights for every last yard. He manages to sift through traffic with ease and find nearly 8-10 yards in situations where he shouldn't.

Hell of a player.

Duke Johnson is one guy I have watched. Tough kid. Love his style. However, I think he is an injury waiting to happen due to his running style. RB is a position that I am very in-tune with. That cat is going to get injured.

Really great thread. I really enjoy your guys insights. Like Vers, I haven't been doing my due diligence regarding this years draft to be an informed fan. Now I'm doing my best to catch up.

One spot I would like to see the Browns select would be a thumper ILB to double up with Dansby on dominant run situations and hopefully be groomed underneath him to step in a couple years from now. Who are some of the guys that might be BPA 3rd round or later that would have that short area quickness, strength, and good hands?

Alright, Alright if I was really going to do my best to catch up, I'd go look for the answers myself. Which I will... just not at this exact moment. Anyways, I respect all of your opinions and would like a little nudge in the right direction. Texas? I know you've been pushing for some help in the middle and you seem to have a solid thought process when it comes to the D.

I went ahead and did some shallow searching. Looked at Drafttek for a positional breakdown. Then, I selected a few guys who caught my eye and looked at a few scouting reports. The thoughts on each player are not my own; I’m just listing or paraphrasing what I read. The scouting report aspect has me a little nervous because I’m not too sure about what sites are credible. It seems like any fool can make a twitter handle with an @draftexpert after it nowadays. I tried to pick sites that seemed they had it goin’ on.

Drafttek Ranking: positional # (Overall #):
6(105) Taiwan Jones- 6’3” 245 Michigan St.
10(149) Trey Depriest- 6’0” 254 Alabama
11(152) Jeff Luc- 6’1” 251 Cincinatti
25(316) Edmond Robinson- 6’3” 245 Newberry *Drafttek lists this guy at ILB, he played OLB in college. Saw the small school and got that late round sparkle in my eye.

http://www.nationalfootballpost.com/nfp-prospect-focus-taiwan-jones-michigan-state/
Taiwan Jones- quick reaction, good strength, technically sound. Good against run and sure tackler.

http://profootballspot.com/topic/13300-spot-2015-nfl-draft-scouting-report-ilb-trey-depriest/
Trey Depriest- Coming off injury. Sure tackler. Good awareness at reading plays, but has lapses in concentration. Takes poor angles and has difficulty shedding blockers.

http://profootballspot.com/_/nfl-draft/s...-jeff-luc-r5896
Jeff Luc- Strength and hands to shed blocks. Sure tackler. Ability to diagnose plays. Bad angles. Lacks short area burst.

http://www.nfl.com/draft/2015/profiles/edmond-robinson?id=2552441
Edmond Robinson- Athletic. Good burst. Lacks upper body strength.

If I were going to bet on one ILB to be an impact player, a top tier defender by year three in his career that would be Paul Dawson, TCU he's only 6ft. 230 lbs. He has advanced instincts for the LB position. His ability to diagnose plays on the move is very good. He can play inside and out. He can take on blocks near the LOS as well as avoid blocks in space. He creates turnovers He's not especially fast but compensates for it with his football intelligence.

And i like Gil Brandt's - the great builder of the old cowboys -eval always

Here are his pro days takeaways:

Gil Brandt Pro days