DawgTalkers.net Forums The Archives 2015 NFL Season The NFL Draft 2015 Player Evaluations

So I looked at the list of players the Browns have either talked with, went to their pro day, or have had visit. I'm going to look at every player I can and give a little synopsis, if anyone is interested.

Nelson Agholor, WR, USC (COM): Ultra fast. For a big guy, he has incredible speed. Excellent punt returner. His punt return against Arizona State was Ted Ginn like. I've seen some people say that his measurable are almost exactly like Maclin. I can tell, because he looks like him. Absolutely abused the secondary for Standford. He runs some fantastic routes and loses no speed in change of direction. Wears 15, our old friend Mr. Little, although Agholor has better hands, but does drop some. Most of them are short yardage that he starts to look up field. Can take a 5 yard curl and turn it into 50 in a flash. Wow this guy is good. He outran Washington State like they were standing still. Absolutely must improve his blocking if he wishes to go to the outside. He lined up everywhere for USC, including RB, Slot, TE. He may not be ready to be a starter year 1, but he can come in and electrify an offense. Exciting potential and someone I'd keep an eye on.

Mario Alford, WR, West Virginia (COM): Hawkins like size. Has decent speed, hard to tell because I don't see any prospect video's on him. Unfortunate, because he seems like a guy who I'd like in the later rounds. The Browns really like shorter, quicker prospects. Cannot comment on him any further.

Cameron Artis-Payne, RB, Auburn (PRO): Good runner. Solid, solid pass catcher. Needs to improve on his blocking a little bit as he can be overwhelmed at times. Good vision as a runner with decent speed. Runs really hard and more of a straight line runner. Isn't going to make you miss. The way he picks apart a defense reminds me of Crowell. He is really good on screens and draw plays. Runs through traffic really well, not easily taken down.

Blake Bell, TE, Oklahoma (EW%): Can be an effective blocker. Really has a huge frame that can stand to add more weight and lean. He is a former QB, so learning a new position all of a sudden he hasn't had time to get his body right. His hands are pretty good, could be a really effective redzone guy. Not the type of gamebreaker we need at TE, more of a Dray type TE.

Brett Boyko, OT, UNLV (EW): Uhhhh....yeah, he's uh...6'7"...301 pounds...and no tape. Seems like a lot of the different sites are saying he lacks athleticism, which looks obvious since he ran a blistering 5.6 40 yard dash. If a video ever pops up, I'll review it, otherwise, moving on...

j/c

I've become increasingly less enthused about the better known NT prospects. I don't think Shelton is a true 2-gap NT. I don't think Phillips plays with enough consistent effort. I like Jarrett but not sure he can play the 0-technique. Anyway, enter David Parry, Standford DT, 6'1", 308 Lbs. With the shortage of 0-technique players in this year's draft class he'll be off the board in round 4.

OVERVIEW
Selected honorable mention All-Pac-12 in 2014 and was semifinalist for Bulsworth Trophy, which is awarded to nation's top player who began career as walk-on. Did not play against Oregon State due to leg injury. Played in all 41 games from 2011-2013 with 12 starts. Played offensive and defensive tackle in high school. Was selected first-team All-State and team MVP as a senior.

PRO DAY RESULTS
20-yard short shuttle: 4.43 seconds
Three-cone drill: 7.5 seconds
ANALYSIS
STRENGTHS Stocky, powerful frame. Former walk-on who plays with a chip on his shoulder. Explodes out of stance and into linemen with force. Always the low man and has the pure power to withstand double teams. Power to two-gap with underrated short-area quickness to penetrate. Uses play strength and leverage to balance against and overwhelm redirect attempts when he gets on lineman's edge. Active hands and above average at unlocking and discarding when ready to tackle. Active pass rusher from interior. Understands how to run twist game up front. Collapses pockets with bull-rush when single blocked and has short-area movement and power to create as a rusher.
WEAKNESSES Needs more pure girth in order to hold up to NFL double teams. Questions about whether frame is maxed out. Short, stubby arms and legs. Can be disrupted by length of tall guards on down blocks. Loses juice when his pass rush gets fanned wide. Plays unfold just a shade out of his limited reach. Get-off just okay. Can be limited when he's not first to the punch. Played just 49 percent of the snaps this season.
NFL COMPARISON Stephen Paea
BOTTOM LINE Underrated former walk-on with a chip on his shoulder and a mean streak to go with it. Rotational defensive lineman with explosive power coming from relatively modest frame by nose tackle standards. Can play in an odd or even front and has strength and functional quickness to be a factor against the run while creating push and pocket disruption against the pass.

Didn't feel like starting a new thread for this but couldn't find a more appropriate thread to put it in so I am putting it here because this is a part of evaluating a player.


Report: Jameis Winston expected to face second rape-related accusation
By Sander Philipse  @Sanderrp on Apr 3, 2015, 4:19p 674


The biggest story in Jameis Winston's career so far hasn't been his on-field prowess, but the fact that he was accused of rape. That accusation has played out publicly and as a result has garnered a lot of attention, although Winston was never found guilty in any of the investigations he went through.

One overlooked part of those investigations is the mention of a second woman who was troubled by her sexual encounter with Winston. Jason Cole of Bleacher Report now says that "multiple sources" expect a second accuser to come forward, either as part of the first accuser's civil suit, or as part of her own lawsuit.

"Jameis Winston is going to be subject to a civil lawsuit going forward," Jason Cole said. "Currently, the alleged [first] victim has already filed a lawsuit against Florida State, is expected to include Jameis Winston either as part of that lawsuit, or as part of a separate civil lawsuit somewhere down the line.

"And finally, there's a second woman who claims to have had an encounter with Jameis Winston in 2013. There's some expectation out there among multiple sources that she may come forward as part of that civli suit, and either file her own civil action, or at least testify on behalf of the first alleged victim."

Cole also noted that neither the Bucs nor the NFL have spoken to Winston's accuser, nor reached out to their representation, legal or otherwise. That's not necessarily surprising: calling rape survivors to ask them to talk about their rapists' character is not something anyone does lightly, because that carries the strong risk of re-victimization. Would you trust an NFL team investigating someone they want to heavily invest in, to treat your feelings respectfully in an interview, and to respect your boundaries? On the other hand, Sharona of @SportsBySharona correctly points out that either entity could simply go through her lawyer.

This second accuser, if she's the same woman who was mentioned by the New York Times, did not initially call her encounter with Winston rape, but she was troubled enough by what happened to seek counseling. While this may seem like a strong indicator that nothing untoward happened, this is actually sadly common in rape cases -- it's why RAINN has an entire page devoted to the question "was I raped?" There's also the possibility that something happened that most wouldn't classify as rape, but still violated her consent. Of course, it may be nothing serious, either.

It's worth noting that at this point, none of that is the case: there is no second accusation, at least not publicly. But if there does turn out to be a second accusation of rape against Winston, that would be a major problem. We've all seen how people have turned a blind eye to rape accusations in the past -- most recently in the case of Bill Cosby, but also with Woody Allen, fashion photographer Terry Richardson, Darren Sharper's days as a serial rapist after being an NFL superstar, and of course Ben Roethlisberger -- who was accused of rape twice, and never charged or convicted.

It is, of course, important to remember that Winston was never found guilty. I don't know whether or not he's guilty. I don't think anyone outside of the two parties involved truly knows. But regardless of legal punishment, I still don't feel comfortable rooting for someone where there's even a little doubt about whether or not he raped someone.

Of course, I'm not the one who gets to make the choice of whether or not Winston becomes a Buccaneer. That's up to Jason Licht, Lovie Smith and the Glazers. And they're going to have to try their hardest to get to the bottom of all of this, if they can, and decide whether they want Winston representing their franchise -- potentially for the next 20 years.


http://www.bucsnation.com/2015/4/3/83412...ated-accusation

At the risk of sounding like a knuckle-dragger, second thoughts or "buyer's remorse" is not a license to accuse a soon-to-be-rich young man of rape. He may be a creep of epic proportions, but the 2nd woman mentioned in the article has damaged her credibility. No means no, but not retroactively.

j/c

Would it be crazy Browns drafting both Danny Shelton and Malcom Brown at #12 and #19? This draft favors interior OL in later rounds. I think edge rushers go quick too. If BPA is the strategy, is any OL a better option than these two DL? Browns OL and DL would certainly be set for a few years. I look to St. Louis and their four first round DL as an example.

If not DL and second option, I more see Farmer/Pettine drafting Trae Waynes, Landon Collins, or Marcus Peters. Pettine is big on secondary.

Third option drafting a receiver. Later rounds more options for offensive players.

I am not a fan of Winston, but something smells a bit fishy here. If it were true, why skip criminal court and only focus on civil court?

It reeks of someone looking for money. I am NOT saying that is the case, but to bypass criminal court and only go after Winston in civil court is a red flag to me.

There is less burden of proof required in civil cases. The DA/Prosecutor can choose not to pursue a criminal case because they know the quality of the cover up won't leave enough evidence to convict criminally.

Not sure , but I think a civil case is brought by an individual and the burden of proof is much less... the result can run a financial gambit form a small award to one quite substantial... .

The criminal case is brought by a prosecutor.. higher burden of proof and more black / white in the resolution... guilty or not guilty.

That said and not to marginalize the victim... you are correct Vers many times these civil suits are brought to garner money not seek justice... again NOT SAYING this is the case here... it may be as Grimm noted the prosecutor does feel he has a case so will not pursue at this time, (if more info arises then he can pursue)and this is the only justice the victim feels she can get.

its in civil court because the police didnt do their do diligence investigating the case in the beginning.

Tallahasee police also allowed both starting CBs for FSU to get away with a hit and run while being intoxicated and nothing happended. And that was this year.

+1

Regarding a second case of alleged sexual misconduct; where there's smoke, there's usually fire. I've said this before, I don't care how talented Winston is, I don't want him.

Thanks for all the replies, guys. Good information.

I don't know if anyone reads these or whatever, but I figure I'll throw in some more of my own person scouting takes on some more players that the Browns have shown some interest in.

Brian Blechen, OLB/SS, Utah (WOR): Literally can find 0 info about him. NFL Draft Scout says he's a UDFA. Big, 6-2 216lbs.

Bryce Callahan, CB, Rice (PRI): Again, can't find anything. Small, 5-9, but ran a 4.32 and had a 43.5 inch vert at his pro day.

Ibraheim Campbell, S, Northwestern: A heat seeking missile on defense, this guy like to hurt you. He can tackle with authority, and really give a good wallop. More ball-hawking than coverage maven in pass defense. Does keep the guys in front of him, but I'm afraid of what will happen in the NFL. Slow at diagnosing plays. Slow to pick up his man on pass coverage. Will start out as a special teamer, but can really bloom into an aggressive, run stopping safety.

Cameron Clear, TE, Texas A&M: Huge. Absolute monster. Inconsistent with his hands, inconsistent blocker. Appears to be slow. I don't like him at all. I heard he was advertised as a big guy with good hands and playmaking ability. I don't see it. Lucky to be drafted, IMO.

T.J. Clemmings, OT, Pittsburgh: Good run blocker. When he squares up and seals his man, he takes him totally out of the play. Inconsistent at getting to the 2nd level, and sometimes doesn't pick out the right man to block. Lots of power, although he is a little slow at getting off the line so he doesn't have the impact block. Really raw in technique. I don't know how he is going to fair in the Pros when it comes to pass blocking. There were times where he really got beat badly on the outside. Looks like a guard to me in pass protection, he cannot handle the speed. We would be better off not taking him and keep Schwartz, IMO. Not a fan before the third round as I think he is absolutely a OG, not a Tackle.

Sammie Coates, WR, Auburn (PRO): Having watched a lot of Coates, the guy can be at times one of the most impressive players on the field. Unfortunately, his hands are really, really inconsistent, his routes aren't consistent, and I'm not sure if I see it in the cards for him to be anything more than just a deep threat. His size, speed and power are all really impressive, and he can make the spectacular look easy, but he needs work. Not a bad choice for the late 2nd, or early 3rd, but I think he's a guy you are always going to wonder how good he could be.

Justin Coleman^, CB, Tennessee (EW, INT): Looks better in press man than anything else. His hips are as fluid as you like and he doesn't flip them quick enough to stay with NFL WR. Excellent in the running game and setting an edge. As I watch him play, I wonder if he would be more of a safety in the NFL? Plays with a lot of discipline in the running game, not worrying so much about chasing behind the play but instead making sure the runner doesn't flip the field. Solid tackler. Looks like he could be a hell of a gunner on special teams.

La'el Collins^, OT, LSU (SR, COM): Good run blocker, although at times he can get shed kind of easy. This guy is absolutely not an NFL tackle. If he plays tackle, he will get someone murdered, because he is just not quick enough to seal the edge rushers. His pass blocking, when the guy isn't trying to run past him is solid enough. For a guy so big, I'm not sure why he gets shed so easy. I don't know how else to say this: He doesn't know how to use his hands. Not like in a technique way, like...use them at all. He is often blocking with forearms and arms. I really don't like him for where he is being projected.

Ricky Collins, WR, Texas A&M-Commerce (PRI): There is one video of him on the internet that I can find, and it is more of a WR highlight package than anything else. He does have really good size, and impressive speed although I wonder if it's just because of the competition. His route tree is undeveloped. Fly pattern, or curl, that's about it. Will need some work, interesting late round guy.

Titus Davis, WR, Central Michigan (PRO): Not a huge fan. His hands are inconsistent, although that could be a result of his QB trying to almost literally kill him. Despite running a 4.51, he looks slower than that. Kind of slow and his jumping ability is unimpressive. Could turn into a decent slot guy or possession guy if hands turn out to be a plus. He is really good in the end zone, I will say that. While I'm not impressed with his jumping, he seems to use every inch he can get when fighting for the ball and is constantly open in the redzone.

Dillon Day, C, Mississippi State (EW): This weirdo has blonde hair with blue highlights. Do not draft. But seriously, no tape, average size, hard to say anything about him. One thing that did come up on a google search is apparently he was extremely dirty in college. Interesting note.

Phillip Dorsett, WR, Miami (SR): This guy has speed to burn. He outruns everyone put on him. His route running was good enough for college, give him an NFL coach and I'm sure he'll improve. Has good hands and made a lot of catches in traffic. Surprisingly good blocker. This guy can be a really special slot WR/deep threat type guy. Just isn't big enough to be a real threat in the redzone. He can absolutely become a real threat in the NFL.

Alvin Dupree, OLB/DE/3-4OLB, Kentucky (PRO): Bud and I have already gone round and round. Total "what if" guy in the mold of Mingo. If you can get a guy to develop him, he could become an all time great. Right now, he's just numbers on a page, when he's on the field he under produces a ton.

Ereck Flowers^, OT, Miami (PRO, PRI): Yeah, this guy is going to be a good NFL tackle. Once again, a guy I've already seen a lot of tape on but the guy is just an outstanding blocker in the running game. Still needs a little bit of refinement as a tackle but he'll get it sorted out. Has the ability to play tackle and the footwork necessary to succeed.

Also, a side note: Duke Johnson is an amazing runner. I really, really hope the Browns are interested in him because I desperately want to watch his tape. Between Walford, Dorsett and Flowers, I've seen this guy a ton. I hope the Browns have the same feelings I do.

Eddie Goldman, DT/3-4DE/NT, Florida State (PRI): This guy is absolutely NOT a NT, let's just get that out of the way now. He has all the size, but any time he was double teamed, he was taken totally out of the picture. That being said, the moves and athletic ability of a guy his size, (6-4, 336 LBS) is beyond impressive. I have a feeling if I popped in Phil Taylor's highlights, I'd see roughly the same guy. Goldman does give a more consistent effort, though.

I read them and I appreciate your insight.

bbd,

Thanks for the comments. I was watching some of Campbell because of a mock draft I'm' participating in. He is a huge hitter for sure. Very good technique and the ball carrier is stopped in his tracks when he lines him up. However, he is a big-time liability in man coverage. Completely unable to keep up with RBs and TEs alike, due to both reaction/technique and raw speed. If you want a good hitter who can also cover, I strongly recommend checking out Anthony Jefferson, SS from UCLA. He's also projected to go much later than Campbell in the draft.

Somewhat share your opinion of Clemmings. The guy just cannot kickslide, but he might be the best drive run blocker in the class, and does most everything else pretty well. Personally, I'd rather have Flowers because he can block against speed, but Clemings definitely has something to work with. It's a gamble, though. Gotta rely on your coaching for the kickslide.

Dillon Day is a baller and I'd be pumped if we drafted him. I mentioned before on here he purposefully stomped on two guys after the play in the LSU game, though. I work with a guy who went to Miss St. and he said Day is from Louisiana and still bitter about not getting a scholarship to LSU. He was suspended for the next game against Texam A&M and Ben Beckwith (their usual RG) started at center and played like crap. I still don't understand how Beckwith is rated by anyone above Day.

Honestly I don't see in Dorsett what everyone else does. there must be some sort of bias preventing me from seeing it because IIRC he was first-team All-ACC. I just am not that impressed with him. Completely agree about Duke Johnson, though. Love that guy. All-time leading rusher and all-time leading all-purpose yards at the U. That's saying something.

I don't like Goldman much, either. He doesn't make any plays laterally at all.

I hear that the Northwestern safety has been moving up draft boards and may go as high as the 2nd round. I haven't seen him play or watched any video on him.

Agree with you on Dupree. Great size and speed but nothing on the field.

Agree with you on Goldman except that I would add that he didn't seem to be that stout when solo blocked either. I kept reading how he was stout against the run but not much of a pass rusher. I saw the opposite. He seemed to good penetration in the passing game but couldn't hold his ground vs the run.


Coates - I agree that at time he looks like the most dominant player on the field. Actually at times he looks like the most dominant receiver in college football. Other times he seems to disappear. Not sure why. I haven't seen the inconsistent hands but that doesn't mean anything because I haven't watched that much of him.

I think his route running combined with his just...incredible speed makes him a very serious deep threat for any team. I think I mentioned it above, but I'm not entirely sure if he'll ever be an outside receiver based on two things 1) his blocking is adequate but not for an outside WR and 2) non threat in the redzone.

As a future Hawkins replacement and future deep threat, I love him. I do kinda feel they have the same type of guy in Gabriel, though.



I'd be really tempted if I'm the Browns. At this point, you may as well get the best running game you can. What I've seen from Johnson is not only that game breaking ability, but he fights for every last yard. He manages to sift through traffic with ease and find nearly 8-10 yards in situations where he shouldn't.

Hell of a player.

Duke Johnson is one guy I have watched. Tough kid. Love his style. However, I think he is an injury waiting to happen due to his running style. RB is a position that I am very in-tune with. That cat is going to get injured.

Really great thread. I really enjoy your guys insights. Like Vers, I haven't been doing my due diligence regarding this years draft to be an informed fan. Now I'm doing my best to catch up.

One spot I would like to see the Browns select would be a thumper ILB to double up with Dansby on dominant run situations and hopefully be groomed underneath him to step in a couple years from now. Who are some of the guys that might be BPA 3rd round or later that would have that short area quickness, strength, and good hands?

Alright, Alright if I was really going to do my best to catch up, I'd go look for the answers myself. Which I will... just not at this exact moment. Anyways, I respect all of your opinions and would like a little nudge in the right direction. Texas? I know you've been pushing for some help in the middle and you seem to have a solid thought process when it comes to the D.

I went ahead and did some shallow searching. Looked at Drafttek for a positional breakdown. Then, I selected a few guys who caught my eye and looked at a few scouting reports. The thoughts on each player are not my own; I’m just listing or paraphrasing what I read. The scouting report aspect has me a little nervous because I’m not too sure about what sites are credible. It seems like any fool can make a twitter handle with an @draftexpert after it nowadays. I tried to pick sites that seemed they had it goin’ on.

Drafttek Ranking: positional # (Overall #):
6(105) Taiwan Jones- 6’3” 245 Michigan St.
10(149) Trey Depriest- 6’0” 254 Alabama
11(152) Jeff Luc- 6’1” 251 Cincinatti
25(316) Edmond Robinson- 6’3” 245 Newberry *Drafttek lists this guy at ILB, he played OLB in college. Saw the small school and got that late round sparkle in my eye.

http://www.nationalfootballpost.com/nfp-prospect-focus-taiwan-jones-michigan-state/
Taiwan Jones- quick reaction, good strength, technically sound. Good against run and sure tackler.

http://profootballspot.com/topic/13300-spot-2015-nfl-draft-scouting-report-ilb-trey-depriest/
Trey Depriest- Coming off injury. Sure tackler. Good awareness at reading plays, but has lapses in concentration. Takes poor angles and has difficulty shedding blockers.

http://profootballspot.com/_/nfl-draft/s...-jeff-luc-r5896
Jeff Luc- Strength and hands to shed blocks. Sure tackler. Ability to diagnose plays. Bad angles. Lacks short area burst.

http://www.nfl.com/draft/2015/profiles/edmond-robinson?id=2552441
Edmond Robinson- Athletic. Good burst. Lacks upper body strength.

If I were going to bet on one ILB to be an impact player, a top tier defender by year three in his career that would be Paul Dawson, TCU he's only 6ft. 230 lbs. He has advanced instincts for the LB position. His ability to diagnose plays on the move is very good. He can play inside and out. He can take on blocks near the LOS as well as avoid blocks in space. He creates turnovers He's not especially fast but compensates for it with his football intelligence.

And i like Gil Brandt's - the great builder of the old cowboys -eval always

Here are his pro days takeaways:

Gil Brandt Pro days