The Good:

--Taylor Gabriel played good for most of the game. Good acceleration coming out of cuts.

--Benji really has progressed. He's fast.

--JM looked better than last year.

--Dansby made one real nice stick.

--Hartline's catch, even though I don't think he was the intended receiver. LOL

--Gipson played well accept for getting sucked too far outside on one play.

--Pass blocking was good.

--The kicker did okay.

--Robertson made a few good plays.

The Bad:

--McCown is McDumb. I love his guts, but he takes way too many big hits. He even did this in preseason and I remember Pet pointing to his head, as in---be smart. He was lucky he wasn't killed on his first scramble. He took a huge hit. That was before the fumble.

--JM has to protect the ball.

--Run blocking was putrid.

--No challenge on Marshall's catch.

--Run defense sucked.

--The great, revamped DL was terrible. Almost ugly. Meder looked fat and slow.

--Did Cooper or Orchard even play?

--Outside contain sucked again. Kirskey doesn't have a clue on that part of the game.

--Zero pass rush from that great DL and even our LBers.

--Our TE's dropped 4 passes. Glad we cut Winn for that.

--Gabriel dropped a huge pass.

--Hawkins is a one-trick pony.

--Haden got torched.

--Gipson getting stripped. But, at least he covered someone. I read somewhere where a poster blamed him for the loss......turning point of the game. LMAO

--Poyer sucks in coverage. Glad he is playing lights out.

--Did the other preseason wonder play? Desir?
--Glad Pet ran such a soft camp.

--Duke Johnson was dynamic. Not.

The Ugly:

--We had double digit penalties and 5 turnovers. Undisciplined team led by a weak coaching staff.

--Those were the ugliest uniforms I have ever seen. Too much orange. GAG!!!!

--We got killed by the freaking Jets, who are one of the worst teams in football.

--Thinking about listening to all the excuses from all the homers and argue that I am only critical because I "hate Farmer."

About time.. I was waiting for this... just waiting to see what you and others say.. I'm to pissed for this

Seems about right.

Cooper and Orchard were inactive.

I wonder how many other players drafted as high as Cooper and Orchard were healthy scratches.

Great. I guess that means I should move them to "The Ugly" category.

Sorry.......I have a splitting headache. Even though I get on the Browns on this board, I still root really hard for them on game day. It was a frustrating day.

The ugly: people talking crap to me at the bar about the browns and justifying it "because I'm used to it...ie because the browns always suck"

I would have thrown my drink on them, but my drink was tastey.

LOL........next time, gulp down your drink and go upside their head w/your empty glass.

Lmao...

we played Solomon and Meder over our two top draft picks ... thats a huge statement

Good: The catch by Hartline when he was on the ground and Benji's TD.

Bad and ugly: Everything else that happened in this game.

Where the hell was Desmand bryant all day?

Getting gashed alongside the rest of the defense.

Just like Gilbert and our veteran WR Bowe...both inactive. SMH.

Not making tackles and or sacks, just like the rest of the DL.

Not really sure why you only brought up his name?

I feel your pain.

I hate these Sunday afternoon fall days after a loss.

Gonna be a real stress test for Farmer. You know he'd like to send a hate text to the coaches for not playing "his guys".

Just because I thought he would show something. The whole team tackling wise was putrid. They were doubling Shelton, and the other guys did not take advantage of it. I thought Kruger was terrible today.

Just overall dominated by the Oline and Dline o the Jets, with little to no support from the LBs and DBs.

Des Bryant, Starks, Shelton, Hughes, etc ... absolute atrocity. Just by accident you'd think they'd get pressure ONE TIME all game

Whitner looks SLOOOOOW and old

Haden had an awful game obviously

Gipson's fumble was THE biggest play IMO

LOL...........but, let's try not to lose The Good, The Bad, and The Ugly concept.

Did Meder really play over Shelton? Didn't pay much attention, but the DL looked worse with every snap

I remember Fitzpatrick getting drilled on one play. Other than that we didn't do much.

Whitner whiffed on the TD run (and many other plays).

Hmmmm...........I thought that all of the DL was bad, but Meder, Hughes, and Shelton stood out to me. Blockers were using their momentum to drive them out of the hole and/or seal them.

I thought Robertson was okay on defense. Oh, but I did forget one Ugly. His dance after making the tackle on the punt return was butt ugly. LOL

I thought the DBs, especially Gipson, did a nice job of coming up and helping vs the run. They had a lot of pressure on them to make tackles because our DL was so awful.

I saw Meder at one point and thought to myself, "That guy is an NFL player?"

Good points. Poor technique?

No, I think the dude meant Orchard and Cooper. Shelton started. He made one really outstanding stop, but he was ineffective on many plays. He would choose a gap and their line would just use his momentum to keep him moving in that direction and the back would cut off of that block. Reminded me of G. Warren.

Where is Winn when you really need him ..lol

I think I know the moment and it wasn't during action. He looked completely clueless like "what do I do?" at one point in the game while looking at the sideline.

LOL...I'm chuckling about it right now.

Probably.

It's so hard to freaking tell on tv anymore. They cut away from the pile so fast and do those stupid zoom in shots to a guy's face. I had to rewind one play 3 times just to see who got burned and I am still not positive. Pretty sure it was Poyer. He let a guy run by him on 3rd and long. Very stupid.

Has Kitchen signed? I would like to bring him back to replace Meder.

Shelton struggled, but he is very strong. He needs to learn the NFL game. He should come around. He will at least draw double teams at times. That's a plus.

I think his belly was even sticking out.

God we suck.

I remember that............and his freaking belly was almost touching his knees when he exhaled.

This was pretty much my take on Shelton out of the draft. Most fans and experts loved the pick, but I just didn't see a consistent, depandable DL on tape. And for me, those traits are THE most important one's for any player, but even more so for trench players.

The combination of trading Winn and keeping Cooper off the field as a healthy inactive is mind boggling. Those two were the two best interior pass rushers. Think we could have used at least one of them to collapse the pocket and force some Fitz into some mistakes?

I was constantly asking myself "What are they thinking??"

I agree. It is hard for me to watch the Dline during the game, I tend to follow the ball. the only lineman I remember making a play was Starks, and that was just one. I never knew who was in at any given time.

Whitner was the one I noticed the most as far as blowing his assignments. And Gipson on the TD was out of position.

I sometimes wonder if the coaching staff is blowing too much smoke up these guys behinds. They seem to play as if they EXPECT to be good, instead of showing they can be, if that makes any sense.

oh and another thing, how many FREAKING TIMES are we going to let the opposing team drive the length of the field RIGHT before the end of the half?

that's a big difference between a below average team and an above average team. and we're never on the right side of it.

I kept thinking about Winn during the game. He is the one guy who does get penetration. Well, D. Bryant usually does, but he did not today.

Cooper did in preseason. You're right. The only thing is that he--like Meder--didn't play against the first string OL's. Gotta be careful when evaluating guys in preseason.

I'm actually more critical of defensive back-ups instead of skill guys like qbs and rbs, because it is much easier to come in and play defense than it is offense.

When you say the kicker did okay I take it you mean Coons. If that is the case you need to include punter in the good.

Also, I haven't seen anyone mention the penalties in this thread. What the hell was going on with that?

Good point. I thought that drive by the Jets right before the half was HUGE!

They flashed a stat about how bad our defense was last year on the final drive of each half. Were we last?

I think people on this board seriously overrate this defense.

That was the Jets offense led by Fitz! Seriously?

They definately were not going our way. I hate when holding calls negate a long run. Today it happened with frequency.

I know it. I knew it was over when they scored the TD to Marshall in the back corner. It was a huge hit to our momentum

They were not going our way because we were committing penalties.

That's what I meant about the smoke up the butts. I think these guys eat up the hype, and expect things to be easy. They are definately not as good as people think. I kind of wonder about the scheme also. Playing prevent, and still allowing big gains, it is maddening.

The pass defense was very good last season. It was probably going to regress this year. We just had to hope the run defense would improve to the point where it wouldn't matter.

By the way did anyone else think the hit on Josh was Helmet to helmet ?

He got hit in the head by another player's head, but it was not a penalty.

I am usually an optimist but after today I got nuthin. Maybe I will watch Draft Day again and enjoy Seattle trading with us for Bo Callahan.

I am depressed.

The player led with his Helmet , yes ? .. I thought it was a penalty when I saw it ..

Cooper was our only pass rush all preseason and he was inactive. Brilliant.

the Good
What happened before the flags.

The bad
The result of the momentum loss the flag created

The Ugly
No passion on the d side of the ball.

Nothing is more depressing than the horrible Draft Day movie.

I too was shocked that Cooper was inactive

McCown was a runner, not considered a defenseless player. Hard to flag a player for hitting a guy in the head when he is flying head first right at you.

The good: It's football season

The bad: It's football season

The ugly: I golfed like a Brown this morning.

Ok , so isn't flying illegal in Football , lol .. You have to agree with me about somptin .

Good...

Benji

Lee and Coons.

Bad

The Browns still cannot stop the run. It's not like they did not know that the Jets would run the ball. That really was the game.

Manziel looked better, but I am not sure I wanted to know that. We may be on the third QB soon.

Ugly

I am pretty upset about Cooper and Biggs not being active. Orchard has a back issue. Bowe is a 4 four letter word.

LOL.. but isn't it a good thing to have a low score in golf ?

Cleveland Browns Postgame Scribbles about Johnny Manziel, no running game, dumb penalties: Terry Pluto




EAST RUTHERFORD, N.J. -- Scribbles in my Cleveland Browns notebook after their 31-10 loss to the New York Jets:

1. What if they can't run the ball this season? It's too early to write that in ink. But the thought crossed my mind a few times as Isaiah Crowell gained only 20 yards in 12 carries. It was a Ben Tate-like performance, how Tate performed in his final five games with the Browns when he couldn't average 2.0 yards per carry.

2. In the preseason, the Browns didn't run the ball well. They averaged 3.1 yards as a team, and that was enhanced by quarterbacks Johnny Manziel, Josh McCown and Thad Lewis running for 65 yards in 12 carries. Crowell gained a mere 47 yards in 17 rushing attempts. Terrance West was not much better, gaining 113 yards in 31 carries.

3. It didn't look like there were many holes for the backs in the preseason, and that was true in Sunday's loss to the Jets. Browns quarterbacks Manziel and McCown carried the ball eight times for 58 yards and one McCown concussion. The running backs had 46 yards in 20 attempts. The Jets ranked No. 3 against the run last season, and their defense looks superb once again. But is that an excuse for the Browns running game to look utterly hopeless?
It didn't look like there were many holes for the backs in the preseason, and that was true in Sunday's loss to the Jets.

4. The Browns have to establish some type of running game, or their quarterbacks will have no chance. Yes, the Jets were programmed to stop the run. Most teams will approach the Browns that way. A good offensive line should open some holes. They haven't done it in the preseason or Sunday. That bothers me. The Browns longest run by a back was 8 yards.

5. The offensive line was flagged for six penalties. Alex Mack (personal foul, holding) and Mitchell Schwartz (false start, illegal formation) had two each. John Greco (false start) and Joel Bitonio (holding) also were flagged. That tells you the Browns offensive line was having a hard time blocking the Jets. Being anxious can lead to false starts. Being overwhelmed physically can lead to holding. Joe Thomas was the only starter on the line not penalized.

6. The most encouraging thing about the first half for the Browns was how it was clear Manziel was mentally into the game -- and prepared to come in. Hard to imagine that he ever thought it would be in the second quarter of the opener, but Manziel looked prepared and poised in the first half.

7. His 54-yard pass to Travis Benjamin was a bit underthrown. But Benjamin had sprinted so far past the Jets defense that he could wait a step, make the grab -- and score the touchdown. A big part of the play was that Manziel knew Benjamin was the open man. Just as he did on his first pass, a 13-yard completion to tight end Jim Dray.

8. Manziel was 4-of-6 passing for 94 yards in the first half. He wasn't sacked, no turnovers. In the second half, the Browns kept giving up points. The running game was four flat tires. The Jets just unloaded on Manziel. He made a poor throw to Brian Hartline, leading to an interception. He was sacked three times, fumbled twice. He looked like so many other quarterbacks over the years, frazzled and trying to play from too far behind. That's not a harsh criticism of Manziel, it's just a fact of what happened in the second half when the Browns coaches seemed to make no adjustments to the Jets defense.
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Browns' Joe Thomas on the loss of Josh McCown to concussion Cleveland Browns left tackle Joe Thomas talks about the loss of quarterback Josh McCown to a concussion on the first drive of the season opening 31-10 loss to the New York Jets at MetLife Stadium Sunday, Sept. 13, 2015. Dave Andersen, Northeast Ohio Media Group

9. It was so discouraging to watch McCown take a risky run trying to score a touchdown. Over and over, the Browns had been telling him not to take those chances. He took three big hits in a preseason game against Tampa Bay. If he throws the ball away, the Browns would have been in great shape to kick a field goal on their opening drive. Or if he slides, he still is in the game and the Browns get a field goal.

10. As I mentioned in my column about the game, Coach Mike Pettine defended McCown's dive for the end zone that led a fumble and his concussion. Thomas thought McCown needed to think about self preservation. Thomas praised Manziel for being ready to come in, but he also talked about how discouraging it is to lose your starting quarterback on the first drive of the regular season.

11. That first drive is what the Browns want this year. It covered 90 yards in 17 plays, chewing up more than nine minutes on the clock. It appears John DeFilippo's offense contains a lot of throws to tight ends. Nine of the 32 passes went to the three tight ends. Two more went to fullback Malcolm Johnson. Travis Benjamin caught all three passes thrown in his direction, totally 89 yards. He returned a punt for 10 yards. He played as he did in training camp, very impressive.

12. That Andy Lee can sure punt, averaging 60 yards in two attempts. So along with Benjamin, there's a positive on this very bleak day for Browns fans.

13. Not only was the Browns defense run over for 154 yards on the ground, they had no sacks and only one quarterback hit. Yes, three of New York's touchdowns came off turnovers. But the Browns defense could have kept them out of the end zone and forced field goals. I expected more from the secondary, and the defense in general.

14. Only once last season did Browns have 12 penalties in a game. They had 12 Sunday. Their next highest was 10. So we'll see if the Browns do correct some of these costly mistakes. Linky dinky

The Good:
Our Kickers and due to the fact I'm laid off...I don't have to go in tomorrow and get trash from the Bungle Fans.

Bad/Ugly: Pretty much the last 3 quarters.

The Good: We will get the first pick in the 2016 draft.

The Bad: Another regime change in 2016.

The Ugly: Our uniforms.

Good: Benji, Hartline, Lee, Gipson's INT, McCown's drive, JM's improvement, pass protection on occasion, Duke Johnson showing promise.

Bad: Drops by Dray, Housler, Hawk & Gabriel, coaching & lack of preparation, run blocking, run game.

Ugly: Tiurnovers, penalties, pass rush, Haden, Run D, secondary, injuries to McCown & Soloman, McCown's complete lack of sense, Manziel's ball security, my mood, Pettine's lack of fire, team's lack of will, the score, the future of this team, orange pants.

How many more games do we have?

The good...
- Kickers
- QB play (outside of Manziels fumbles)

The bad...
- Nothing I can think of

The ugly...
- Everything else
-- Run blocking
-- Pass rush
-- Penalties
-- Turnovers
-- Dropped passes
-- Run defense
-- Heart


It's honestly hard to even break down most individuals when pretty much every unit looked that bad.

The good : There were no season ending injuries. Lee avg 60.5 yds

The bad : We have a Pro Bowl left tackle and the run plays went mostly to the right side.

The ugly : 4 lost fumbles.. we were up 7-0 then it got ugly..

The Good: I can't even really feel bad about it anymore. I used to take the pain and frustration into Tuesday or Wednesday. Now I'm just numb and apathetic.

The Bad: The Cleveland Browns

The Ugly: The Cleveland Browns

I think I'm actually shaking my Brownoholism.

There is no point in my repeating all the valid points in the previous posts.

What I will say is, if we don't win one of the next two games we might not win one the entire season!

No... you can't do that... at this point what makes this team worth anything is the fans... DAMN GREAT FANS !!! be pissed.. be angry... Be disgusted.. be a fan !

I'm pissed I'm angry I'm disgusted... and I'm going to the game Sunday against doctors orders.

Be a Brownoholic that's who you are... that's what makes being a Browns fan special... No matter how bad the team is... being with other Brown fans and tailgating is why the Browns are the best damn fans in the land..

Okay Brownoholic .. lets have a drink now..

Good point about Winn.

Your post about says it all so..... Peace

I've been a Browns fan since I was 5 years old. I actually saw Leroy Kelly play. THAT was a running back. I've been through Phipps, RR88, the drive, the fumble, the move, the return.... and frankly I'm numb. I continue to watch... but I don't ever expect a championship. Hell I don't think we're likely to even see a good team for a long long time. We draft too poorly and hire to stupidly.....

That sure was the good old days.. and being at Municiple Stadium.. That's what made me a fan.. I'm 54 and I would say honestly I don't know what age I was like you maybe 5 6 or 7... when I understood and loved the game... but I was young..

Thats cool you have been a fan that long

The good:

- Big Play Barnidge continues to catch everything thrown his way. Most underrated TE in the league.

- Malcolm Johnson FB made quite a few nice blitz pickups allowing completions.

- The uniforms. I love them. I'm biased cuz orange is my favorite color, but I just feel like we finally look like a team out there and not just all white.

The bad:

-Team preparedness: this is Mike Pettine's one most important job and he's not doing it, yet.

The ugly:

-The abuse this team puts us through. It's like they're sadistic. They do the dubmest stuff any fans sees they shouldn't and it always costs the game. It's like watching the Twighlight Zone every week.

Good

-Johnny's TD throw to Benji
-a few other Johnny throws
-Andy Lee
-Mingo actually made a few plays
-Malcom Johnson made a few catches and then we didn't see him the rest of the game
-Congrats to Travis Coons on making his first field goal, and also having to kick 3 straight XP's because this team loves penalties

Bad

-Our run defense. 4.3 Per rush is not good enough.
-Josh McCown's decision making
-Gipson allowing Marshall to make a key play by ripping the ball from his hands
-Our running backs. I won't put them in the ugly section, because the people that are supposed to be blocking didn't do a very good job.
-Johnny fumbling the ball. I'm not going to bury him for that because he was trying to make something happen, because the team was falling apart. But secure the ball. He will learn. I thought the mistakes he made today were correctable for the most part

Ugly

-Run blocking. Whatever scheme we're trying to shoe-horn in looked awful. Jets defendersw were in the backfield almost as soon as the ball was being handed off.
-Penalties. Probably cost us the game. How many 3rd and 10-15+ plays did we have today? You had 2 awful red zone penalties that basically screwed you.
-Joe Haden. He got abused. Anyone else notice a trend of him not having a good start every year. Everyone rails on him. He comes out and plays pro bowl level. Then he seems to get too comfortable again and has an awful game. I've noticed it over the last 3 years or so. Does he have a problem getting motivated? I don't buy the whole Marshall just being too big and physical, because we've seen him have great games against big receivers like AJ Green and Calvin Johnson. He wasn't good.
-

Joe Haden is the most infuriating player in the history of the Browns.

The Good.... The game is over
The Bad.... The game started
The Ugly.... everything in between the good and the bad.

Good:

-McCown before getting injured. I think he managed a 17 play drive pretty well actually.

-JM I thought looked pretty good for the most part. I thought in the 3rd when things were getting rough his discipline was starting to break down, but he mentally recovered. Having said that, I still don't think he's quite ready for the starting job just yet.

-Dansby laid the friggin wood on that awesome goal line hit!

-Early on the defense I thought did well keeping the Jets from 3rd down conversions

-One thing that hasn't been mentioned yet, but Flip's game plan. I actually thought the play calling was pretty solid. Again, a 17 play drive and at least for the 1st half our 3rd down percentage was pretty dang good.

Bad:

-I hope this game was a real gut check for the O-Line. The pass blocking I think was overrated and was greatly helped out by McCown and Manziel's mobility. Maybe our Vets got too much time off this preseason.

Ugly:

-O-Line was absolutely horrid in run blocking. It looked disjointed at best. They couldn't get any push, allowed the Jets to get too much penetration too often. They didn't look like a veteran line in the least bit.

-D-Line... no presuure... no sacks...

-LB's.. no outside contain

-DB's.. again, maybe too much time off for the vets? they looked slow, rusty.

-Whitner.... after he wussed out and tried to bump I think it was Ivory on the 1yrd line instead of making the tackle.. as far as I'm concerned he can STFU about who should be on this roster. Not a very good game by him. I'd almost rather of had T.J. Ward back there.. and he's suspended!


My hope is that this game was a gut check, not only for the O-Line, but for everyone all around. I do think Flip called a fairly good game. I do agree with others that the team let Manziel down vs. the other way around. Hindsight says McCown running for the TD was a dumb decision, but considering no one else was giving them a spark, I cant say as I blame him for trying.

No sacks...that is embarrassing !

defense played like they had no sacks yesterday.

Truth.

No sacks = No sacks

GOOD: Andy Lee is a darn good punter. Consistently drove the Jets back.

BAD: Both lines were terrible. I'm tired of hearing about Joe Thomas and Alex Mack. Both are terribly over-rated.

UGLY: The lack of playmakers on this team. Ray Farmer sure looks like a moron for not investing in WR's, TE's and RB's.

Good: We have a team in Cleveland still
Bad: Its the same crappy team weve had since 99
Ugly: our uniforms

Tashaun Gipson

On the forced fumble and recovery by WR Brandon Marshall…

He made a good play. At the end of the day, the only thing that was on my mind was to put the offense in good field position. He made a veteran move. I can’t tip my hat enough to him. I think that play changed the game. An interception in the red zone, we could have had the ball back up 7-0, but instead they score. That was a huge turning point. I can’t let that happen. That was poor ball security on my part. But at the end of the day, that’s football. They are going to make plays, and we are going to make some too.

Ohhh, nobody get me wrong, I'll still watch. And still follow every move in the on and off-seasons for the rest of my life. Will actually still get a little excited for the draft.

But there is NO amount of ugliness that will ever take me by surprise with this team.

And there is no way in HELL this franchise gets a cent of my money. They will have gotten it right and KEPT it right for a good while before that ever happens again.

A number of things stood out.

They let a very average quarterback have his way. There was no pass rush on any downs. Specifically on passing downs.

When you have below average quarterback play you need to able to run the ball. Crowell does not look for daylight he just into people. The supposed strength of the team the OL looked very average.

In a passing league it only stands to reason that good receivers help the passing game. Our tight ends have zero pass catching skills and lack speed in a big way. As a group our receivers lack talent.

Playmakers make plays. Brandon Marshall is an example of a play maker. Do the Browns have playmakers?

Do we have anybody who can get after the quarterback?

Penalties. There are no excuses for the number of penalties.

Turnovers are obvious negatives. Manziel showed some improvement but the issues that he had coming from college do not appear to be going away. Not much you can do about size and the ability to take hits and hold on to the ball.

The roster in my opinion is the result of poor decisions. What is and what could have been are vastly different. The results reflect the choices made.

Haden should go in the ugly category. He got worked over by Marshall all game long, it wasn't even close. That might have been the worst game I've seen from Haden since his rookie season. It pains me to say that, too.

I definitely think Haden lost the battle to Marshall but I didn't see Marshall doing anything until the second half. Maybe I'm mistaken.

That mentality is exactly what I'm talking about.

A turning point in the game in the first quarter (or early second)?

Buck up and get the ball back. Make them kick a FG. Show some damn heart and competitive fire.

It's so disheartening watching a team lay down just because they caught some bad breaks. That is a complete loser's mentality.

Other than thinking that the pass blocking was adequate, I agree with your comments. I thought McCown did a fine job while he was in, showed himself to be a real leader, and played with passion...

Good
Special teams. Punting Lee, excellent and coverage excellent. Coons I think he just set a record the first 42 yard Extra Point...that whole scenario belongs in a "SILLY" bracket.

McCown had a beautiful long drive.
Manziel some of what he did...but the more the game was getting away the more he tried to do things himself.

I thought our Pass blocking was good.

Benjamin, I think he might end up our best WR.
Hartline - Good routes, dependable hands.
that pass was not for Hartline, great catch pulling it in and securing it.

I thought Mingo was good in coverage long arms able to tip a ball. Had another good coverage...wish we blitzed him more!

Joe Thomas as usual good, Johnson our FB I thought was good and sure handed in passes.

I'm sure more good but just cracking the 24 hours rule.

Bad...
Shelton, although I keyed on him one play and sure enough he took on 2 blockers (run Play) bad for me was he was constantly lined up a yard off the LOS I thought it put him at a disadvantage.

Execution on the D - I knew the O would have some tough execution but was shocked at the D. As mentioned Shelton would take on two blockers. It wasn't the DL for me...it was the LBs.

Again the Edge was not in control the oppenent RB would come to the middle with the ball then break it outside with our containment guys committed too far inside and trying to chase the RB at a bad angle only to not catch him.

I thought our run support from our DB was non existant except a few Haden stops. But the Jets when we bounced outside and beat the containment their DBs would be shooting in like from a cannon to cut down our man.

Coverage...the TD in the Middle - around the 20 so that there is no Vertical Stretch. We rush 3 which I hated. So had 8 in coverage. How the heck is our 2 Back Zone Safeties are both up by the front of the Goal line as our CB has the outside (Fade one on one covered) expected inside help on a Post/Seam Only to have our safety flat footed by the Goal line and couldn't get back in time. What bothered me most is Both safeties where parallel with each other!!!

LOS...we didn't control it at all.
Interior was bad and that included Mack.
Joe Thomas was as always good. To lazy to go put him in the good and well everyone should know that by now.

UGLY...
PENALTIES...terrible and were back breakers on almost every one. 3rd and long and we would make it...and I mean really good 3rd and longs (twice with Manziel making excellent runs) Penalties to bring us back.

Each one was breaking our spirit...little by little.

Our RBs have to learn the concept of a CUT BACK LANE, Not circle back and try to go outside which will not get over in the NFL.

Maybe Bad but I didn't like Dray's play at all. Hopefully we will see the kid Bibbs next time.
Manziel trust you back side...don't run right where Joe T is riding his man to. Take off left JThomas is so consistent.

UGLY BAD mostly I thought our coaches had a bad game again especially on the D. We thought RUN D that Fitz would have no chance at a pass game. That is why we put Cooper inactive as if our objective was to stop the pass. get him in.

Wish there was an OK bracket with the Silly bracket I wanted....lol I thought Haden was OK...just didn't have the hops he normally does, remember he to had Hamstring issues.

btw ORCHARD was a Inactive due to injuries.
Bowe, Orchard, Gilbert, Forget who else...I know the only not to be injured were Bibbs and Cooper. I like them both. Would have Dray and Meder sit.

Well enough for now. Oh one more ugly...16 out of 17 Season openers since 1999...losses. The only Win - the last game I attended in 2004. Us vs Baltimore! I'd give up that experience for the other 16 to be wins!

We better circle the wagons, Got a feeling McCown will not get excused in the Concussion protocol till after Wed. So that he will be Inactive...oh Austin Davis healthy Inactive but needed to learn the plays Davis in and McCown out for a week.

The kid will have to just do what he has to. Not try to carry the team. Just be patient the OL was blocking till he started taking off and mistakes came into play.

I might do what I saw later - but no way I would do it although this wasn't too bad. I think most of the EMOTIONAL Posters are afraid of you Vers...lol
thanks for the thread.

Nah we're just waiting for the what I saw thread to really have a good rant.

This morning, I brought it up, that the Jets DLmen and LBs were screaming to the outside to stop the off tackle run.

The coaches are going to see the video and realize that the Jets were vulnerable to the cut back, but we never even tried it.

That was a missed opportunity that DeFillippo and Montgomery, the RB coach need figure out how to take advantage of.

Again, our best playmaker seems to be the kicker.

Do you think an overall lack of experience in our coaching staff could have anything to do with this?

Considering we have 25 coaches and 15 more up in the booth, plus the guys on the field experiencing it... don't you think that's something that could be pointed out... oh, after the second or third time it happened and an adjustment made? Do we really need to wait until Monday to see the film? Isn't that what coaches are supposed to do during the game? Make adjustments...

I think our OL coach going nuts probably had a lot to do with the doubledidgit penalties and total crapfest by the OL.

why?

Good:
Our FG kicker nailing all those kicks left and right after each penalty... great job!

Bad:
Run defense. No pressure on the QB. Turnovers. McCown with the nine minute drive that was already bound to get points and then the turnover there/concussion. Pass protection and ability to run.

Ugly:
All the flags, they wiped away a lot of good plays, many of those were big chunk plays and again, many of those were on 3rd down. Joe Haden on Marshall. Just pretty much the entire second half and a lot of the second quarter.

The OL coach keeps these guys in check, holds them accountable. Its the one group where everyone has to be on the same page and there was just to many silly mistakes by this group.

I have three comments for now:

--I think it's nuts to think the game was lost because Gipson fumbled the ball. It was early in the game. We had a 7 point lead. Gipson was just being accountable w/his comments, but no way in the world did we lose the game because of that play! We got beat 31 to 10. There were bigger issues, such as 12 penalties, 5 turnovers, no pressure by the front seven, poor run blocking and run defense. One play did NOT lose this game. That is absurd. If there was a turning point, and I really don't think there was, it would have been when the Jets drove the length of the field for a TD right before the half. That was a painful. But, I still think we got our butts handed to us and blaming Gipson is pretty freaking lame.

--tab, I agree w/much of what you said. I am not sure about your comment about the DBs in run support, though. I thought that they were having to make too many tackles when guys got through almost untouched. They made a lot of them, but you aren't going to stop a guy like Ivory when he isn't touched and has a full head of steam. He is a guy you gotta get contact on early!

--I think most of you know that I will rip the coaches and FO when I feel it is warranted, but I am not going to blame our coaches for our RBs not cutting back. I know a bit about the position and it's all about vision. That isn't on the coaches, it's on the RB. That is why I used to argue w/you all about TRich...he had terrible vision. With that said, I really didn't see many cut-back lanes yesterday. The Jets were w/out one of their best d-lineman, but they completely dominated our o-line on running plays. There were not holes there. I will add that because we don't have WRs and/or TEs that can stretch the field vertically and because our qbs are way below average and because everyone knows we want to run the ball.......that it makes it harder to run block. This is the identity and personnnel we chose.............now we gotta live w/it.

the cleveland browns web page, the cleveland browns facebook account, and gipson himself have all called that the "turning point" in the game. Gipson said it afected him the rest of the game if you want to listed to his full interview on the Browns' web site. Matt Wilhelm, a former player, called it a turning point in the game. Everyone else acknowledges that was a major mistake that seriously affected the direction of the game.

Nobody is saying it's the only reason they lost. The penalties were huge. The drive right before half was huge, giving up the TD on the first drive of the 2nd half was huge (which, by the way, was a TD thrown where Gipson was supposed to be,) and getting the starting QB knocked out the first drive (thus zapping almost the whole practiced gameplan) which also huge. Not recovering that fumble over fitzpatrick's head was big.


I agree that the overall failure of the running game was on the OL. We had feew holes open up. the sad part was the few times they did open, the RBs weren't ready to hit them.

I think it's sad that it affected Gipson the remainder of the game and speaks to the mental make up of him as a player and the rest of the team, if they felt the same way.

Sad, just sad. We were up 7-0 when that happened.

How about this............let's disagree about a freaking turning point. We got our butts handed to us. We regained the lead AFTER that play.

What gives w/you? It's like you are trying to argue. List your Good, Bad, and Ugly and quit trying to be an ass.

Gipson was one of the very few guys who actually made plays yesterday.

Daggone guys........y'all amaze me w/what you see sometimes.

If Gipson said that play affected him the rest of the game, don't you think that speaks to his mental make up?

You and I are in agreement that it wasn't a turning point or at a minimum is sad if it was a turning point in the game. Based on what steve posted, it sounds like Gipson believes it was.

I think that demonstrates low mental toughness.

your reply that someone's opinion was that it was a turning point gave a condescending "LMAO" at the end of it, referring to the person who made the statement as "some guy." I don't like posters' opinions being belittled or that their opinion is invalid, which that sounds like. I was pointing out that it was not just "some guy" and that most people who have commented on it, including the principals involved, saw it as a turning point. If people feel like their opinion is ridiculed they might be less likely to post in the future.

Could have said you just disagreed with him without the equivalent of laughing in his face at everyone. That's what bothered me about it.

I saw that at least 3 times, and on two fumbles. Thomas had run the DE 5-7 yards behind JFF, and he'd run right into the DEs path. He would have been better off twice if he'd just moved into the area Thomas just vacated to throw (if someone was open, that is).

Got it, so rather than contributing to the thread, you chose to act like the guy you just described not liking.

Classy move!

There were a lot of good posts on this thread, and then you had to come in w/your garbage.

Take a hike.

Is it only me who finds this....., interesting???

No. I am sure many people do.

Let's stop talking about the good, the bad, and the ugly and make it another hate fest.

Vers, calm down man. You are going at some good, even keeled posters. I know they can defend themselves, and they don't need me to, but take a deep breath man. Some people think it was a turning point, some don't.

I think it's a real shame that some of our players thought it was.

steve deliberately sabotaged the thread. Fine. Then lame jumps in w/his usual productive self. Fine.

I didn't steve correct posters on all those threads in the Pure Football forum when NUMEROUS posters were ridiculing posters who questioned Farmer.

It only works sometimes. Aaargggghhhh.........Whatever, another thread ruined by BS. I seriously wonder why I even bother........

Take a look in the mirror. You are the problem.

Saying something is the reason you lost, and calling something a turning point aren't exactly the same.

Yeah because you have never done that right? Pfffff

This is an example of the difference between a good team and a bad team. When this play occurred it was clearly a potential turning point in the game. A good team either man's up on defense and stops the other team or if not the offense drives down and puts points on the board. Somebody makes a play to shift the momentum back to zero

A bad team doesn't do any of that. They basically fall apart and lets thing snowball, like we did.

Exactly. Tramon commented on it. Team was hanging their head on the sidelines.

A team of professionals. Over one play. In the first half. With the lead. Grown men. Who are supposed to be competitive.

This infuriates me like you wouldn't believe.

A lot of people have questioned leadership on this team. People assume Joe Thomas is a leader because he's an elite player, and he's been here the longest, but that's just not how it always works. I think if you have a great QB, he's obviously going to be the leader or a big part of a shared leadership. When you don't, or when you have a guy like Russell Wilson who won a SB quite young, the leadership comes from other places.

I think it's also hard for guys like Whitner or Dansby to just be the leader. They weren't brought up and raised through this program. It probably would help if it came from within. But who really knows? We have no idea what goes on behind closed locker room doors. But I cannot agree any more with you that it's beyond unacceptable to have players hanging their head and feeling sorry for themselves or feeling like "here we go again".

I just don't get that. College football isn't that much different from pro football. I get that it's the best of the best, and these are paid professionals, but doing your job, and making a difference are both ya know, what's expected of you at either level?

I wasn't even that mad about the play when it happened. It was a bad play on Gipson's part, but it was the first half. A freaking Browns fan did't see it as the end of the world, so why would a paid professional? We're the kings and queens of knowing this stuff!

The Good
1st half run defense, especially the interior. Held the Jets to 42 yards on 12 carries in the 1st half.
Gipson pick
D Bryant, especially the 1st half. He did pressure the QB a couple of times as well as getting push in the run game.
Johnny Manziel showed improvement. His best throw was the one to Benji from just inside the 25.
Our punter Lee
Hartline's hands

The Bad
Joe Haden
Manziel's ball security
Tackling
2nd half interior run D

The Ugly
Outside containment
Defeatist attitude of the players
Leadership

Then I guess we'll see what this coaching staff is made of in the following days. They had better find effective ways of dealing with this, or the season is lost before it really begins.

They are grown-ass men, for sure... but they are also performing in a structure/hierarchy that's built on teamwork and leadership. This is when your leaders earn their rank. And those leaders must be the coaches. 'Seasoned vets' can help, but the team culture is set by the guys who run the classrooms and give the marching orders. This responsibility will be on them... as it should be.

If this team comes out fired up, and bounces back from in-game mishaps, I'll know that Pettine & co. worked on character issues as well as playbooks. If they come out and give up for a second game in a row.... I seriously won't want to watch them in Game 3.

Coaches need to fix this fast.
Crap like this can kill more than just a single football game... it can kill a football season.

Man, are we ever on the same page with this one. I chalked that one play up to 'typical Browns luck,' but fully expected to see more effort like that as the game progressed. It galled me to see them lay down after that.

I don't ever get upset at bad luck on a football play. THE ONLY THING that upsets me is watching guys not trying to do their best.

OK. It's been 24 hours. I think I can do this now.

GOOD
1. Andy Lee
2.
3.

BAD
1. Penalties/mental errors. A whole football field's worth. Drive killers and wind-suckers.
2. Lack of contain defensing running backs who bounce their routs outside.
3. No pressure on the QB all day.

UGLY

1. The way this team just gave up when the score was 21-10. Inexcusable.

[quote=Versatile Dog]steve deliberately sabotaged the thread. Fine. Then lamejumps in w/his usual productive self. Fine.

[/quote\]

Lol, nice! And to think I was starting to warm up to ya. My bad.

They gave up when the score was 7 - 0, in the Browns favor!

The Good The rich Heritage of the Pre 99 Browns

The Bad The Ownership and organization since 99

The Ugly The Product on the field since 99

IN A NUT SHELL !

--tab, I agree w/much of what you said. I am not sure about your comment about the DBs in run support, though. I thought that they were having to make too many tackles when guys got through almost untouched. They made a lot of them, but you aren't going to stop a guy like Ivory when he isn't touched and has a full head of steam. He is a guy you gotta get contact on early!

Possibly I didn't communicate what was being visioned in my mind when I wrote that. I was specifically talking about the OUTSIDE runs...taking off outside when the Point of attack (middle) was clogged up...the RB is running laterally "BEFORE" turning the corner. When we were in that same Offensive position their CBs flew in and knocked our RBs legs out for a loss or no/little gain. That was my observation that I didn't see that from our corners.

Cut Back...yes when I wrote that I didn't even consider that to be on our Coaching...ZBS is designed for that and its the vision of the RB to make that split second decision and cut back. As noted I saw them circle back to go outside instead of cut back.

Just no time for What I saw. Pretty much would be redundant as I chose to put it here. Next week after we win and I put it up Early

The good: As bad a score as this was, the team didn't look quite that bad. With competent quarterback play we sustained drives and the defense wasn't horrible for most of the game. (I know not being horrible IS good these last few years.)

The bad: Our quarterback play was terrible from McNown's run to pretty much everything Manziel did, he did have a couple of decent throws when they were short passes and hot reads (so in other words, one read and throw, or run around and toss up duck and hope his receivers can come down with it, just like in college). The referee's. I know we're not supposed to use them as an excuse and I won't but there's a number of those penalties that were awfully ticky tack.

The ugly: Our coaching staff didn't seem to adjust at all, on any level that I could see...