DawgTalkers.net
Posted By: BuckDawg1946 Oil - 10/06/18 07:04 AM
Correct me if I’m wrong.

The south advocates for oil, the north renewable energy. Gay marriage, marijuana, these are ideologies that will come to the south last.

I take a shot across your bow, because it messes with biodiversity. We can fight amongst ourselves, humans. I have to speak for the species that can’t speak for themselves.

Republicans and the south have explaining to do, I want answers.
Posted By: gage Re: Oil - 10/06/18 07:38 AM
Confirmation bias.

Climate change skeptics/deniers don't want to admit it may be happening . Not one bit. Even if they say the Earth is warmer, it's not man's faults etc.

It's because the major driver of AGW is corporate and state based. The only way to reign that in would be regulations. Regulations dig into profits. In today's global world it is hard to compete in both regulated and unregulated countries.
Posted By: fishtheice Re: Oil - 10/06/18 09:42 AM
Originally Posted By: gage
Confirmation bias.

Even if they say the Earth is warmer, it's not man's faults etc.



This photo was taken Oct. 2, 2018, on Hiway 2 outside of Browning Mt. The winters are starting earlier and lasting longer...global cooling?


Posted By: Swish Re: Oil - 10/06/18 12:03 PM
this was about as bad as that one politician who brought in a snowball to prove that global warming isn't real.
Posted By: teedub Re: Oil - 10/06/18 12:54 PM
Is it global warming or is it climate change??? Really hard to keep up with the moving goal posts.
Posted By: 40YEARSWAITING Re: Oil - 10/06/18 03:46 PM
It is Global Warming and it has been going on since before the Bering Sea was a land bridge and Glaciers reached all the way to Virginia.
Posted By: CHSDawg Re: Oil - 10/06/18 03:54 PM
Originally Posted By: fishtheice
Originally Posted By: gage
Confirmation bias.

Even if they say the Earth is warmer, it's not man's faults etc.



This photo was taken Oct. 2, 2018, on Hiway 2 outside of Browning Mt. The winters are starting earlier and lasting longer...global cooling?





Extreme weather patterns? I wasn't aware that Browning, expanded the entire globe. It didn't seem THAT big when I was there. You do understand what 'global' means right.
Posted By: CHSDawg Re: Oil - 10/06/18 03:55 PM
Originally Posted By: teedub
Is it global warming or is it climate change??? Really hard to keep up with the moving goal posts.


If the globe is warming, wouldn't the be part of climate change? Inquiring minds would like to know.
Posted By: CHSDawg Re: Oil - 10/06/18 04:03 PM
For the cyclical people, if nature is cyclical and we go through warming and cooling periods, then shouldn't the rate of temp change be somewhat similar to other cycles?
Posted By: 40YEARSWAITING Re: Oil - 10/06/18 04:22 PM
Originally Posted By: CHSDawg
Originally Posted By: teedub
Is it global warming or is it climate change??? Really hard to keep up with the moving goal posts.


If the globe is warming, wouldn't the be part of climate change? Inquiring minds would like to know.


Cause and Effect.
Posted By: PitDAWG Re: Oil - 10/06/18 04:24 PM
Some wish to deny the fact that for each action there is an equal and opposite reaction.
Posted By: 40YEARSWAITING Re: Oil - 10/06/18 04:33 PM
Originally Posted By: gage
Confirmation bias.

Climate change skeptics/deniers don't want to admit it may be happening . Not one bit. Even if they say the Earth is warmer, it's not man's faults etc.

It's because the major driver of AGW is corporate and state based. The only way to reign that in would be regulations. Regulations dig into profits. In today's global world it is hard to compete in both regulated and unregulated countries.



Don't forget those who deny the fact that just like oil, profits drive the clean energy, carbon taxes, Paris Accord folks as well. It is mostly about controlling the money.

This is why so many Scientists were caught fudging their reports years ago. Much like the Scientists fudged in support of Tobacco years before that.

Money makes the world go round.
Posted By: PitDAWG Re: Oil - 10/06/18 04:43 PM
So we have a choice of investing the money in clean energy or dirty energy.
Posted By: northlima dawg Re: Oil - 10/06/18 05:00 PM

Trump administration sees a 7-degree rise in global temperatures by 2100



September 28
Last month, deep in a 500-page environmental impact statement, the Trump administration made a startling assumption: On its current course, the planet will warm a disastrous seven degrees by the end of this century.

A rise of seven degrees Fahrenheit, or about four degrees Celsius, compared with preindustrial levels would be catastrophic, according to scientists. Many coral reefs would dissolve in increasingly acidic oceans. Parts of Manhattan and Miami would be underwater without costly coastal defenses. Extreme heat waves would routinely smother large parts of the globe.

But the administration did not offer this dire forecast, premised on the idea that the world will fail to cut its greenhouse gas emissions, as part of an argument to combat climate change. Just the opposite: The analysis assumes the planet’s fate is already sealed.

The draft statement, issued by the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration (NHTSA), was written to justify President Trump’s decision to freeze federal fuel-efficiency standards for cars and light trucks built after 2020. While the proposal would increase greenhouse gas emissions, the impact statement says, that policy would add just a very small drop to a very big, hot bucket.


“The amazing thing they’re saying is human activities are going to lead to this rise of carbon dioxide that is disastrous for the environment and society. And then they’re saying they’re not going to do anything about it,” said Michael MacCracken, who served as a senior scientist at the U.S. Global Change Research Program from 1993 to 2002.

The document projects that global temperature will rise by nearly 3.5 degrees Celsius above the average temperature between 1986 and 2005 regardless of whether Obama-era tailpipe standards take effect or are frozen for six years, as the Trump administration has proposed. The global average temperature rose more than 0.5 degrees Celsius between 1880, the start of industrialization, and 1986, so the analysis assumes a roughly four degree Celsius or seven degree Fahrenheit increase from preindustrial levels.

The world would have to make deep cuts in carbon emissions to avoid this drastic warming, the analysis states. And that “would require substantial increases in technology innovation and adoption compared to today’s levels and would require the economy and the vehicle fleet to move away from the use of fossil fuels, which is not currently technologically feasible or economically feasible.”


The White House did not respond to requests for comment.

World leaders have pledged to keep the world from warming more than two degrees Celsius compared with preindustrial levels, and agreed to try to keep the temperature rise to 1.5 degrees Celsius. But the current greenhouse gas cuts pledged under the 2015 Paris climate agreement are not steep enough to meet either goal. Scientists predict a four degree Celsius rise by the century’s end if countries take no meaningful actions to curb their carbon output.

Trump has vowed to exit the Paris accord and called climate change a hoax. In the past two months, the White House has pushed to dismantle nearly half a dozen major rules aimed at reducing greenhouse gases, deregulatory moves intended to save companies hundreds of millions of dollars.

If enacted, the administration’s proposals would give new life to aging coal plants; allow oil and gas operations to release more methane into the atmosphere; and prevent new curbs on greenhouse gases used in refrigerators and air-conditioning units. The vehicle rule alone would put 8 billion additional tons of carbon dioxide in the atmosphere this century, more than a year’s worth of total U.S. emissions, according to the government’s own analysis.


Administration estimates acknowledge that the policies would release far more greenhouse gas emissions from America’s energy and transportation sectors than otherwise would have been allowed.

Florence from above: Aerial photos of flooding and damage from the hurricane View Graphic 

The statement is the latest evidence of deep contradictions in the Trump administration’s approach to climate change.

Despite Trump’s skepticism, federal agencies conducting scientific research have often reaffirmed that humans are causing climate change, including in a major 2017 report that found “no convincing alternative explanation.” In one internal White House memo, officials wondered whether it would be best to simply “ignore” such analyses.

In this context, the draft environmental impact statement from NHTSA — which simultaneously outlines a scenario for very extreme climate change, and yet offers it to support an environmental rollback — is simply the latest apparent inconsistency.

David Pettit, a senior attorney at the Natural Resources Defense Council who testified against Trump’s freeze of car mileage standards Monday in Fresno, Calif., said his organization is prepared to use the administration’s own numbers to challenge its regulatory rollbacks. He noted that NHTSA document projects that if the world takes no action to curb emissions, current atmospheric concentrations of carbon dioxide would rise from 410 parts per million to 789 ppm by 2100.


“I was shocked when I saw it,” Pettit said in a phone interview. “These are their numbers. They aren’t our numbers.”

Conservatives who condemned President Barack Obama’s climate initiatives as regulatory overreach have defended the Trump administration’s approach, calling it a more reasonable course.

Obama’s climate policies were costly to industry and yet “mostly symbolic,” because they would have made barely a dent in global carbon dioxide emissions, said Heritage Foundation research fellow Nick Loris, adding: “Frivolous is a good way to describe it.”

NHTSA commissioned ICF International Inc., a consulting firm based in Fairfax, Va., to help prepare the impact statement. An agency spokeswoman said the Environmental Protection Agency “and NHTSA welcome comments on all aspects of the environmental analysis” but declined to provide additional information about the agency’s long-term temperature forecast.

Federal agencies typically do not include century-long climate projections in their environmental impact statements. Instead, they tend to assess a regulation’s impact during the life of the program — the years a coal plant would run, for example, or the amount of time certain vehicles would be on the road.

Using the no-action scenario “is a textbook example of how to lie with statistics,” said MIT Sloan School of Management professor John Sterman. “First, the administration proposes vehicle efficiency policies that would do almost nothing [to fight climate change]. Then [the administration] makes their impact seem even smaller by comparing their proposals to what would happen if the entire world does nothing.”

This week, U.N. Secretary-General António Guterres warned leaders gathered in New York, “If we do not change course in the next two years, we risk runaway climate change . . . Our future is at stake.”


Yes, humans have made wildfires worse. Here?s how. View Graphic 

Federal and independent research — including projections included in last month’s analysis of the revised fuel-efficiency standards — echoes that theme. The environmental impact statement cites “evidence of climate-induced changes,” such as more frequent droughts, floods, severe storms and heat waves, and estimates that seas could rise nearly three feet globally by 2100 if the world does not decrease its carbon output.

Two articles published in the journal Science since late July — both co-authored by federal scientists — predicted that the global landscape could be transformed “without major reductions in greenhouse gas emissions” and declared that soaring temperatures worldwide bore humans’ “fingerprint.”

“With this administration, it’s almost as if this science is happening in another galaxy,” said Rachel Cleetus, policy director and lead economist for the Union of Concerned Scientists’ climate and energy program. “That feedback isn’t informing the policy.”

Administration officials say they take federal scientific findings into account when crafting energy policy — along with their interpretation of the law and Trump’s agenda. The EPA’s acting administrator, Andrew Wheeler, has been among the Trump officials who have noted that U.S. emissions of carbon dioxide and other pollutants have fallen over time.

But the debate comes after a troubling summer of devastating wildfires, record-breaking heat and a catastrophic hurricane — each of which, federal scientists say, signals a warming world.

Some Democratic elected officials, such as Washington Gov. Jay Inslee, said Americans are starting to recognize these events as evidence of climate change. On Feb. 25, Inslee met privately with several Cabinet officials, including then-EPA chief Scott Pruitt, and Western state governors. Inslee accused them of engaging in “morally reprehensible” behavior that threatened his children and grandchildren, according to four meeting participants, who spoke on the condition of anonymity to provide details of the private conversation.

In an interview, Inslee said that the ash from wildfires that covered Washington residents’ car hoods this summer, and the acrid smoke that filled their air, has made more voters of both parties grasp the real-world implications of climate change.

“There is anger in my state about the administration’s failure to protect us,” he said. “When you taste it on your tongue, it’s a reality.”



A woman looks at rising floodwaters from the garage of a home in Soddy-Daisy, Tenn., on Wednesday, Sept. 26, 2018. (Doug Strickland/Chattanooga Times Free Press/Associated Press)

https://www.washingtonpost.com/national/...m=.6f6bf3ae4a8b
Posted By: gage Re: Oil - 10/06/18 05:16 PM
Practically every reply in this thread so far does a good job showing the confirmation bias. Not worth having a discussion these days.

Arguing about AGW with forum posters would be like an average Joe telling a orthopedic surgeon how to do his job. It makes no sense yet here we are. We live in a world where people with no formal education on economics, sciences, and other deep topics feel just as educated because a talking head told them what's going on.
Posted By: 40YEARSWAITING Re: Oil - 10/06/18 05:46 PM
It must be frustrating when people you feel you are much smarter than question your beliefs and you have no answer except to say they are stupid.
Posted By: CHSDawg Re: Oil - 10/06/18 05:56 PM
Originally Posted By: 40YEARSWAITING
Originally Posted By: CHSDawg
Originally Posted By: teedub
Is it global warming or is it climate change??? Really hard to keep up with the moving goal posts.


If the globe is warming, wouldn't the be part of climate change? Inquiring minds would like to know.


Cause and Effect.


Exactly. They go hand and hand.
Posted By: teedub Re: Oil - 10/06/18 06:52 PM
Originally Posted By: gage
Practically every reply in this thread so far does a good job showing the confirmation bias. Not worth having a discussion these days.

Arguing about AGW with forum posters would be like an average Joe telling a orthopedic surgeon how to do his job. It makes no sense yet here we are. We live in a world where people with no formal education on economics, sciences, and other deep topics feel just as educated because a talking head told them what's going on.


Ok...these guys have the formal education you are looking for...

https://www.google.com/amp/s/phys.org/news/2016-08-solar-impact-earth-cloud.amp

I have always thought the big guy in the sky was pretty significant in the discussion for reasons ignored because TPTB would have a hard time blaming g the end of the world on something we can't control...thus not having the ability to control the masses.
Posted By: Tyler_Derden Re: Oil - 10/06/18 06:58 PM
I tend to think that its kind of asinine to think that Human activity has not/will not have any affect on the climate.

Humans have been dominating the earth for centuries. We bend nature to our will on a daily basis, and yet some folks seem to think that our actions couldn't possibly affect the climate.....that's just ludicrous.


We've consistently polluted the air, soil, and water around the world, There are places where radioactive materials have left land uninhabitable for humans for hundreds of years, we have detected pharmaceuticals in salt and fresh water, and we have caused rampant air pollution and smog around our major cities....but, by some kind of Dick Goddardian Magic there's no conceivable way the climate could be affected by us....We can affect everything else....just not that.....


Just seems ignorant...
Posted By: gage Re: Oil - 10/06/18 07:06 PM
Originally Posted By: 40YEARSWAITING
It must be frustrating when people you feel you are much smarter than question your beliefs and you have no answer except to say they are stupid.


Theres a great deal of ignorance that comes from assuming you know everything. That is your position, so you feel free to own and enjoy that. If you need surgery in the future you should self operate since you clearly know more than everyone!
Posted By: gage Re: Oil - 10/06/18 07:09 PM
If scientists find a smoking gun that AGW isn't happening , then I will for sure listen. My mind isn't made up. But what you just did is post about a paper on a small segment of the complex system known as climate , and extrapolated the meanings by your own biases and ignorance . Unless you are a climate scientist of course and have more details to provide, I can't think of anyone in this thread that isn't but a layman on the topic.

Should laymen fly planes? Should laymen develop vehicle structural frames? Then why are laymen considered knowledgeable on this.
Posted By: teedub Re: Oil - 10/06/18 07:20 PM
Originally Posted By: gage
If scientists find a smoking gun that AGW isn't happening , then I will for sure listen. My mind isn't made up. But what you just did is post about a paper on a small segment of the complex system known as climate , and extrapolated the meanings by your own biases and ignorance . Unless you are a climate scientist of course and have more details to provide, I can't think of anyone in this thread that isn't but a layman on the topic.

Should laymen fly planes? Should laymen develop vehicle structural frames? Then why are laymen considered knowledgeable on this.


See post #1523320
Posted By: 40YEARSWAITING Re: Oil - 10/06/18 07:28 PM
Originally Posted By: gage
Originally Posted By: 40YEARSWAITING
It must be frustrating when people you feel you are much smarter than question your beliefs and you have no answer except to say they are stupid.


I'm a computer scientist and engineer in the world of real-time 3D graphics and design. What do you do?

Theres a great deal of ignorance that comes from assuming you know everything. That is your position, so you feel free to own and enjoy that. If you need surgery in the future you should self operate since you clearly know more than everyone!


So you are not a Climatologist? Then you don't know what you are talking about.

I base what I know on Science. The mere fact you want to debate Climate change and Global warming suggests it is an unsettled subject.

You wouldn't ask to debate something proven like Gravity.

So as you have stated, people who disagree with your view are idiots?
Ok. rolleyes
Posted By: teedub Re: Oil - 10/06/18 07:28 PM
And for the sake of arguing with you....please show me evidence where at any time I said it was not getting warmer (or colder)...I take exception with the idea that man is the driving force behind the AGW theory...you are acting like the dems in the Kavanaugh hearing...you are accepting AWG as fact looking for it to be disproved....when in fact the scientific method says that the burden of proof lies in supporting the theory for it to become fact/law....Kinda of like the guilty before innocent movement we saw last week.
Posted By: gage Re: Oil - 10/06/18 07:29 PM
I did, and responded.

Look, at this point your argument has no scientific merit. You have no scientific method or paper here showing me that AGW isn't real. You have your opinion. Saying the Earth and clouds impact climate is like saying the heat lamps in mcdonalds is heating a burger. Maybe that's true. But is that the only variable? Of course not.

Ive been bored today coming back from Europe on a business trip, so I'll duck out of here shortly. It's also hard to discuss climate change with people who argue in bad faith. And posting a scientific news article and saying "there" is not only bad faith, but demonstrates profound ignorance on your part in how the scientific community proves or disproves theories. So hey, you do you.
Posted By: gage Re: Oil - 10/06/18 07:31 PM
I didn't post a view. I said the view of the community doing the most to understand something should be understood and respected.

Do you assume pilots don't know planes?
Do you assume auto mechanics don't know cars?

I don't go to climate scientists and ask them the best way to solve a rasterization performance problem. Why should they go to you and inquire about the study of climate ?

The idea that you think gravity is proven and climate change isn't shows your ignorance of science. But everyone here knows how much intelligence you have based on your posts.

Popping off to drive home. Good day !
Posted By: teedub Re: Oil - 10/06/18 07:34 PM
You were the one that came out and disparaged anyone from having an opinion or thought on a subject unless they had a certificate of approval from a division of higher education that pushes the agenda and the answers you seek.

But hey...you do you.
Posted By: teedub Re: Oil - 10/06/18 07:36 PM
Originally Posted By: gage
The idea that you think gravity is proven and MAN MADE climate change isn't shows your ignorance of science. But everyone here knows how much intelligence you have based on your posts.

Popping off to drive home. Good day !


Fixed it for ya...
Posted By: archbolddawg Re: Oil - 10/06/18 07:36 PM
Has the earth warmed and cooled since its existence?
Posted By: 40YEARSWAITING Re: Oil - 10/06/18 07:41 PM
Originally Posted By: gage
I didn't post a view. I said the view of the community doing the most to understand something should be understood and respected.

Do you assume pilots don't know planes?
Do you assume auto mechanics don't know cars?

I don't go to climate scientists and ask them the best way to solve a rasterization performance problem. Why should they go to you and inquire about the study of climate ?

The idea that you think gravity is proven and climate change isn't shows your ignorance of science. But everyone here knows how much intelligence you have based on your posts.

Popping off to drive home. Good day !


When we are scientifically discussing gravity, we can talk about the law of gravity that describes the attraction between two objects, and we can also talk about the theory of gravity that describes why the objects attract each other.
Posted By: Clemdawg Re: Oil - 10/06/18 07:51 PM
Originally Posted By: 40YEARSWAITING
It must be frustrating when people you feel you are much smarter than question your beliefs and you have no answer except to say they are stupid.



I'm sure it is. It also doesn't invalidate their claim. Some people really are stupid.

#factsstillmatter
#truthmeltsflakes
Posted By: 40YEARSWAITING Re: Oil - 10/06/18 08:09 PM
Originally Posted By: Clemdawg
Originally Posted By: 40YEARSWAITING
It must be frustrating when people you feel you are much smarter than question your beliefs and you have no answer except to say they are stupid.



I'm sure it is. It also doesn't invalidate their claim. Some people really are stupid.

#factsstillmatter
#truthmeltsflakes


Yes, I have noticed. It is usually those who disagree with you.
Posted By: Clemdawg Re: Oil - 10/06/18 08:17 PM
Take a lesson from that.
Oh, wait- lessons aren't really your thing, now are they?

I can only help you if you want to be helped.

Or you can just stay in your basket where it's warm and comfy.
Posted By: EveDawg Re: Oil - 10/06/18 11:57 PM
Originally Posted By: BuckDawg1946
Correct me if I’m wrong.

The south advocates for oil, the north renewable energy. Gay marriage, marijuana, these are ideologies that will come to the south last.

I take a shot across your bow, because it messes with biodiversity. We can fight amongst ourselves, humans. I have to speak for the species that can’t speak for themselves.

Republicans and the south have explaining to do, I want answers.


Medical Marijuana is already legal in the South for many conditions.

Same sex marriages are legal in Georgia.

So not sure where you get your info from.

Maybe you need to take the South out of your mouth.
Posted By: Swish Re: Oil - 10/07/18 12:01 AM
https://medicalmarijuana.procon.org/view.resource.php?resourceID=000881

if the south, you mean a whooping 4 states, then sure.
Posted By: Tulsa Re: Oil - 10/07/18 12:02 AM
Originally Posted By: EveDawg
Originally Posted By: BuckDawg1946
Correct me if I’m wrong.

The south advocates for oil, the north renewable energy. Gay marriage, marijuana, these are ideologies that will come to the south last.

I take a shot across your bow, because it messes with biodiversity. We can fight amongst ourselves, humans. I have to speak for the species that can’t speak for themselves.

Republicans and the south have explaining to do, I want answers.


Medical Marijuana is already legal in the South for many conditions.

Same sex marriages are legal in Georgia.

So not sure where you get your info from.

Maybe you need to take the South out of your mouth.


I live in the reddest of the red states, and we just voted in medical marijuana.
Posted By: EveDawg Re: Oil - 10/07/18 12:03 AM
That map is incorrect because its quite factual the MM is legal in Georgia for many conditions, and more being approved all the time.
Posted By: Swish Re: Oil - 10/07/18 12:07 AM
Originally Posted By: EveDawg
That map is incorrect because its quite factual the MM is legal in Georgia for many conditions, and more being approved all the time.


https://www.ajc.com/news/state--regional...q8OZ7rdffKUZPM/

so first, its only allowed for certain conditions as you stated , but overall medical weed is still not legal. also, this is very recent in GA.

and recreational is still illegal.

so again, by the south, you mean a whooping 4 1/2 states, then sure.
Posted By: EveDawg Re: Oil - 10/07/18 12:08 AM
Originally Posted By: Swish
Originally Posted By: EveDawg
That map is incorrect because its quite factual the MM is legal in Georgia for many conditions, and more being approved all the time.


https://www.ajc.com/news/state--regional...q8OZ7rdffKUZPM/

so first, its only allowed for certain conditions as you stated , but overall medical weed is still not legal. also, this is very recent in GA.

and recreational is still illegal.

so again, by the south, you mean a whooping 4 1/2 states, then sure.


Keep lying, with your incorrect map, its all good.

They are even considering allowing dispensaries here.
Posted By: 40YEARSWAITING Re: Oil - 10/07/18 12:09 AM
That old crap map only has 48 states on she.

We have MM here in Virginia too!
Posted By: Swish Re: Oil - 10/07/18 12:09 AM
Originally Posted By: EveDawg
Originally Posted By: Swish
Originally Posted By: EveDawg
That map is incorrect because its quite factual the MM is legal in Georgia for many conditions, and more being approved all the time.


https://www.ajc.com/news/state--regional...q8OZ7rdffKUZPM/

so first, its only allowed for certain conditions as you stated , but overall medical weed is still not legal. also, this is very recent in GA.

and recreational is still illegal.

so again, by the south, you mean a whooping 4 1/2 states, then sure.


Keep lying, with your incorrect map, its all good.

They are even considering allowing dispensaries here.


considering does not equal legal.

this is about to turn into that time i had to school you on the demographics of your own state.

also, while georgia is in the south, it is not the entire south, as you implied.
Posted By: EveDawg Re: Oil - 10/07/18 12:12 AM
Originally Posted By: Swish
Originally Posted By: EveDawg
Originally Posted By: Swish
Originally Posted By: EveDawg
That map is incorrect because its quite factual the MM is legal in Georgia for many conditions, and more being approved all the time.


https://www.ajc.com/news/state--regional...q8OZ7rdffKUZPM/

so first, its only allowed for certain conditions as you stated , but overall medical weed is still not legal. also, this is very recent in GA.

and recreational is still illegal.

so again, by the south, you mean a whooping 4 1/2 states, then sure.


Keep lying, with your incorrect map, its all good.

They are even considering allowing dispensaries here.


considering does not equal legal.

this is about to turn into that time i had to school you on the demographics of your own state.

also, while georgia is in the south, it is not the entire south, as you implied.


Well so far we have established that your map is wrong.
And the OP is wrong,

But, by all means, please go research all of the Southern states, and realize how wrong your are lol
Posted By: BuckDawg1946 Re: Oil - 10/07/18 12:15 AM
Not to paint with a broad brushstroke, but there are certain tendencies, you can actually map these. If you don’t believe humans significantly affect the climate, there is a good chance you are one of these people.

1 You vote republican
2 You live in the south
3 You are older than 40

That being said, I assume these people have a fundamental understanding of earth systems. They say this is a natural process. If so, I assume they know the sun goes through 11 year cycles of hot, and less hot. If these are the driving forces of earth temperature, why does it consistently go up for the past 3 decades?

When does the period of cooling come? I’ve been been consistently asking this question since 2007. Maybe next decade
Posted By: 40YEARSWAITING Re: Oil - 10/07/18 12:18 AM
Dang! Whats that got to do with Medical Marijuana?
Posted By: Swish Re: Oil - 10/07/18 12:20 AM
oh, i have.

the fact that medical weed is only approved for certain conditions, and no recreational whatsoever in the state of georgia - medicinal not legal.

also:

https://www.thrillist.com/travel/nation/states-that-legalized-weed-marijuana-laws

see all those southern states grey as all hell? cause its still illegal in all/most aspects.

here's another map:

https://www.vox.com/cards/marijuana-legalization/what-is-marijuana-decriminalization

and other one:

https://marijuana.procon.org/view.resource.php?resourceID=006868

aaaand another one:

https://www.businessinsider.com/legal-marijuana-states-2018-1

you're wrong, you will remain wrong, and you will always be wrong, that is of course until those states finally pass AND implement their weed laws.
Posted By: EveDawg Re: Oil - 10/07/18 12:22 AM
Originally Posted By: BuckDawg1946
Not to paint with a broad brushstroke, but there are certain tendencies, you can actually map these. If you don’t believe humans significantly affect the climate, there is a good chance you are one of these people.

1 You vote republican
2 You live in the south
3 You are older than 40

That being said, I assume these people have a fundamental understanding of earth systems. They say this is a natural process. If so, I assume they know the sun goes through 11 year cycles of hot, and less hot. If these are the driving forces of earth temperature, why does it consistently go up for the past 3 decades?

When does the period of cooling come? I’ve been been consistently asking this question since 2007. Maybe next decade


Yes. Clearly old Southern Republicans MUST be the problem.
Because clearly they dictate policy for the rest of the country.
[/purple]
Posted By: Swish Re: Oil - 10/07/18 12:22 AM
i mean damn eve, i'm trying to help you other here, but when i just looked, only certain counties in Georgia even have it decriminalized. the entire state isn't even at that part yet.

sad.
Posted By: EveDawg Re: Oil - 10/07/18 12:27 AM
Originally Posted By: Swish
oh, i have.

the fact that medical weed is only approved for certain conditions, and no recreational whatsoever in the state of georgia - medicinal not legal.

also:

https://www.thrillist.com/travel/nation/states-that-legalized-weed-marijuana-laws

see all those southern states grey as all hell? cause its still illegal in all/most aspects.

here's another map:

https://www.vox.com/cards/marijuana-legalization/what-is-marijuana-decriminalization

and other one:

https://marijuana.procon.org/view.resource.php?resourceID=006868

aaaand another one:

https://www.businessinsider.com/legal-marijuana-states-2018-1

you're wrong, you will remain wrong, and you will always be wrong, that is of course until those states finally pass AND implement their weed laws.


Ok, first of all, Ohio doesnt have recreational M. Secondly, Ohio only allows MM for certain conditions, So hypocrite much? People in glass houses should not throw stones.

Third if you want to fail to acknowledge that MM is legal for many conditions in the South and we are adding more all the time, and being increasingly progressive, thats YOUR PROBLEM.

Not mine. I dont live in denial. But seems you do. Have fun with being WRONG.
Posted By: Swish Re: Oil - 10/07/18 12:30 AM
in ohio, not only do we have medicinal, but the state is decriminalized.

so you took an L there.

also, most of the south, its illegal for both legal and medical.

the facts say you're wrong. too bad, so sad.

and i lol'd when you brought up gay marriage, as if those states in the south had a choice lmfao. cause if they did, we all know it still be illegal in most of them.
Posted By: EveDawg Re: Oil - 10/07/18 12:34 AM

No. Apparently Ohio is run by idiots who dont know how to set up MM.

https://www.cincinnati.com/story/news/po...eek/1142666002/
Posted By: Swish Re: Oil - 10/07/18 12:36 AM
oh, i agree we got idiots running the show, no doubt about that.

but atleast i dont have to worry about catching a record just cause i want to do gravity bongs.
Posted By: EveDawg Re: Oil - 10/07/18 12:39 AM
Yeah, but until its actually legalized, dont complain about other states.
Because other states are way ahead of you.
Posted By: Swish Re: Oil - 10/07/18 12:39 AM
and my state is way ahead of Georgia.

but we aren't ahead of this:

LAX airport to allow marijuana in carry-ons

https://www.cnn.com/travel/article/lax-los-angeles-airport-marijuana/index.html
Posted By: EveDawg Re: Oil - 10/07/18 12:44 AM
I read that article. Thats pretty cool.

If Georgia was doing NOTHING about M, then I would say you could complain, but we are making progress.

It isnt as fast, but its steady.

The South isnt as backwards as you Yankees want it to be to fit your narratives.


For one thing, we are massively more racially integrated (and happily so) than the North ever will be. EVER
Posted By: teedub Re: Oil - 10/07/18 12:59 AM
Curious....if we did a n honest and truthful poll of all the opioid addicts in the current crisis...I wonder how many of them were previously or currently MJ users???

I can attest that every opioid addict or OD victim I know personally was or is a pot smoker.
Posted By: gage Re: Oil - 10/07/18 01:44 AM
Originally Posted By: teedub
You were the one that came out and disparaged anyone from having an opinion or thought on a subject unless they had a certificate of approval from a division of higher education that pushes the agenda and the answers you seek.

But hey...you do you.


I never said anyone needed a certificate from higher education. Can you elaborate?

Evolution, AGW, and vaccines linked to autism are only controversial to laymen outside of the scientific community. It is useful for some politicians to join in this controversy if they have lobby groups or constituents that benefit from adding their own biases to the equation. The truth is it's simple to debunk science. Very, very simple. Just come up with an experiment debunking it. Debunk Einstein's theory of relatively. Debunk Evolution. All it takes is an experiment that challenges the consensus.

If anyone tells you a scientific theory is false, you should ask, nay demand, their experimental papers on it. If they can't provide them, then they are fooling you. Don't fall for it.
Posted By: gage Re: Oil - 10/07/18 01:47 AM
Originally Posted By: 40YEARSWAITING

When we are scientifically discussing gravity, we can talk about the law of gravity that describes the attraction between two objects, and we can also talk about the theory of gravity that describes why the objects attract each other.


What are you suggesting here? That there must be a law proving AGW?
Posted By: teedub Re: Oil - 10/07/18 03:45 AM
You lost me when you brought up the anti-vaxxer issue as possibly being legit (implied because of the way you presented it as controversial to the layman) because a handful of scientists have proposed it yet when a handful of scientists speak against AWG then their view is not serious because it is not a popular view...

You have said in multiple posts in this thread that only people with a formal education in a field (ie need a certificate) to have a seat at the table
Posted By: Day of the Dawg Re: Oil - 10/07/18 03:59 AM
I for one cannot wait for global warning. I hate the cold, snow, and ice. If I never see that kind of weather again I will not miss it. Bring it on!
Posted By: PortlandDawg Re: Oil - 10/07/18 04:12 AM
Or you could just move.
Posted By: Day of the Dawg Re: Oil - 10/07/18 04:17 AM
Originally Posted By: PortlandDawg
Or you could just move.


I would like to. I just cannot talk the wife into it.
Posted By: archbolddawg Re: Oil - 10/07/18 04:17 AM
Originally Posted By: archbolddawg
Has the earth warmed and cooled since its existence?


So, I haven't seen a response to this from the so called 'uber intelligent'.
Posted By: Swish Re: Oil - 10/07/18 04:21 AM
Originally Posted By: archbolddawg
Originally Posted By: archbolddawg
Has the earth warmed and cooled since its existence?


So, I haven't seen a response to this from the so called 'uber intelligent'.


nelson posted in this thread?
Posted By: BuckDawg1946 Re: Oil - 10/07/18 05:00 AM
If we are talking climate, I believe interglacial periods are 12-14,000 years apart. Tree rings, ice cores, mud cores. We have an avalanche of data in front us.

With great power comes great responsibility
Posted By: Razorthorns Re: Oil - 10/07/18 05:12 AM
The earth has been going through cycles of hot and cold since it was born. It's why we have ice ages and swamp ages. The earth will survive just fine.

That doesn't mean we shouldn't do everything we can to fix the things that are harming the planet. From what I have seen China is the one working the hardest to improve the world's climate by planting billions upon billions of trees yearly. Imagine if we took 1 million of the homeless population and gave them food, and shelter and paid them minimum wage to just plant trees full time. That is about 14 billion dollars a year to eliminate huge sections of desert and reverse desertification.

It's completely possible to turn desert into land with green grass, trees, and even rivers. The only thing stopping us is laziness. We already spend 455 billion on welfare. For just a bit more we can absolutely change the planet of the better.
Posted By: CHSDawg Re: Oil - 10/07/18 05:31 AM
Originally Posted By: archbolddawg
Originally Posted By: archbolddawg
Has the earth warmed and cooled since its existence?


So, I haven't seen a response to this from the so called 'uber intelligent'.
Originally Posted By: CHSDawg
For the cyclical people, if nature is cyclical and we go through warming and cooling periods, then shouldn't the rate of temp change be somewhat similar to other cycles?


Probably because you got pre-empted. But I get it, I've never once seen a con answer my question.
Posted By: FloridaFan Re: Oil - 10/07/18 10:56 AM
I do not believe man caused global climate change.

Now before you vilify me for my opinion, let we explain the semantics of my statement.

"Man caused" insinuates man is the only or primary cause. This I cannot stand behind, being that the same scientists that study global climate change have also studied the warming and cooling cycles of the earth, and proves those cycles true.

I do however, believe man "contributes" to the rate at which the climate changes.

Anything we can do to make for a cleaner environment should be considered.
Posted By: OldColdDawg Re: Oil - 10/07/18 11:40 AM
Until the past year or two, I was in the man made climate change camp on global warming. But after seeing so many studies point to cyclic global temperature change and patterns over thousands/millions of years, I think that just maybe both sides are right to an extent.

Obviously overpopulation and the gluttonous use of natural resources have led to pollution, deforestation, and resource depletion. Nobody denies that the oceans are overfished, the rainforests are being destroyed, species extinction has accelerated, ice caps are melting, sea level is rising, our air and water is contaminated, or a plethora of other bad things seem to be happening.

It doesn't take a scientist to notice the more extreme weather patterns we are experiencing. However our science is our best tool to try to understand exactly what is going on and if we can do anything about it.

Some science points to potential polar shifts, changes in the wobble of the earth, natural cyclic global weather/temperature changes, and man made contributors to these changes. We may never fully understand all of the variables but denying the changes are real, putting our faith in some higher power to fix the problems, or thinking we as a species are not in trouble... well that's lunacy.

The changes are real. Humanity must strive to understand and adapt to survive these changes. We can only hope that this realization and our future actions to deal with the issues don't come too late.

As far as the planet goes, earth will survive with little to no issues. Life on earth will not have it so easy. On our current trajectory, our species is doomed. Period.
Posted By: teedub Re: Oil - 10/07/18 12:20 PM
Originally Posted By: Razorthorns
The earth has been going through cycles of hot and cold since it was born. It's why we have ice ages and swamp ages. The earth will survive just fine.

That doesn't mean we shouldn't do everything we can to fix the things that are harming the planet. From what I have seen China is the one working the hardest to improve the world's climate by planting billions upon billions of trees yearly. Imagine if we took 1 million of the homeless population and gave them food, and shelter and paid them minimum wage to just plant trees full time. That is about 14 billion dollars a year to eliminate huge sections of desert and reverse desertification.

It's completely possible to turn desert into land with green grass, trees, and even rivers. The only thing stopping us is laziness. We already spend 455 billion on welfare. For just a bit more we can absolutely change the planet of the better.


I dont disagree to do somethings.....but your statement of do "everything" is unattainable, unrealistic and economic suicide. I work in an environmental industry (I have the certificate gage....multiple in fact)....the clients I serve spend millions cleaning up their water and waste....that water we discharge to local rivers are 1000s of times cleaner the the actual local water ways...yet the local waterways have issues...so we are being required to polish our already super clean water even more at a steep cost....you see removing 98% of the pollution is easy and can be do e cost effectively...the next 2 percent is crazy hard and expensive...yet that is the goal we are being forced into.....all the while other non point source discharges are blowing billions of tons of the same pollutants out and never even looked at to reduce their contributions.

I could theorize that doing everything in our power should include a limit on the number of internal combustion vehicles you own that gets a minimum 30 mpg to 1 per family of 4 and a limit to the number of gallons of gas you are able to buy per month. then one additional engine but just one for riding mower, push mower,weedeater,snowblower,leaf blower etc..thermostat control no warmer the 65 while heating..no cooler the 78 when cooling... cremation For everyone as cemeteries would better serve our mother earth if planted with trees and not needing crews constantly running mowers over the pretty grass ...all of these things will reduce your CO2 foot print and fall in the category of " doing everything we can...I can come up with more to illustrate if needed.....that's the fallacy of the emotional statement EVERYTHING.
Posted By: teedub Re: Oil - 10/07/18 02:37 PM
Originally Posted By: Razorthorns
Imagine if we took 1 million of the homeless population and gave them food, and shelter and paid them minimum wage to just plant trees full time.


"That sounds like slavery with extra steps"......Morty Smith

Posted By: PitDAWG Re: Oil - 10/07/18 03:58 PM
Let's boil this down to what some seem to be saying.

"We can trash the earth, allow farmers to pour chemicals into the ground, pollute the air and trash our oceans and there are no consequences. God will save us from ourselves and never punish us for trashing the world he gave us to protect."

Mmmmmm, hmmmmmm.....
Posted By: Swish Re: Oil - 10/07/18 04:01 PM
prosperity gospel.
Posted By: PortlandDawg Re: Oil - 10/07/18 04:01 PM
Originally Posted By: PitDAWG
Let's boil this down to what some seem to be saying.

"We can trash the earth, allow farmers to pour chemicals into the ground, pollute the air and trash our oceans and there are no consequences. God will save us from ourselves and never punish us for trashing the world he gave us to protect."

Mmmmmm, hmmmmmm.....


Well it’s all in God’s plan. I think they see it as carrying out said plan.
Posted By: teedub Re: Oil - 10/07/18 04:01 PM
Originally Posted By: PitDAWG
Let's boil this down to what some seem to be saying.

"We can trash the earth, allow farmers to pour chemicals into the ground, pollute the air and trash our oceans and there are no consequences. God will save us from ourselves and never punish us for trashing the world he gave us to protect."

Mmmmmm, hmmmmmm.....


Can't attack farmers....they are a class way above minority and disenfrahnchised status.
Posted By: teedub Re: Oil - 10/07/18 04:06 PM
Imagine the positive impact the earth would see if each country had to produce their own food....the Co2 foot print from the us would drastically go down as we are no longer belching pollution to feed the rest of the world...and then there is the pending population crash associated with starvation from countries not able to feed themselves...thus curbing global appetite for limited resources....that is a win win win situation!
Posted By: PitDAWG Re: Oil - 10/07/18 04:18 PM
Originally Posted By: teedub
[quote

Can't attack farmers....they are a class way above minority and disenfrahnchised status.


It's more on Monsanto than farmers.
Posted By: Razorthorns Re: Oil - 10/07/18 10:00 PM
Originally Posted By: OldColdDawg
Until the past year or two, I was in the man made climate change camp on global warming. But after seeing so many studies point to cyclic global temperature change and patterns over thousands/millions of years, I think that just maybe both sides are right to an extent.

Obviously overpopulation and the gluttonous use of natural resources have led to pollution, deforestation, and resource depletion. Nobody denies that the oceans are overfished, the rainforests are being destroyed, species extinction has accelerated, ice caps are melting, sea level is rising, our air and water is contaminated, or a plethora of other bad things seem to be happening.

It doesn't take a scientist to notice the more extreme weather patterns we are experiencing. However our science is our best tool to try to understand exactly what is going on and if we can do anything about it.

Some science points to potential polar shifts, changes in the wobble of the earth, natural cyclic global weather/temperature changes, and man made contributors to these changes. We may never fully understand all of the variables but denying the changes are real, putting our faith in some higher power to fix the problems, or thinking we as a species are not in trouble... well that's lunacy.

The changes are real. Humanity must strive to understand and adapt to survive these changes. We can only hope that this realization and our future actions to deal with the issues don't come too late.

As far as the planet goes, earth will survive with little to no issues. Life on earth will not have it so easy. On our current trajectory, our species is doomed. Period.



That is possibly the best post you have ever written. I don't think life is doomed outside of nuclear war though. Many countries are already taking big steps to improving things and the largest one China is doing the most to get rid of earth's biggest desert. I love what china is doing for the environment.
Posted By: Razorthorns Re: Oil - 10/07/18 10:09 PM
Originally Posted By: teedub
Originally Posted By: Razorthorns
Imagine if we took 1 million of the homeless population and gave them food, and shelter and paid them minimum wage to just plant trees full time.


"That sounds like slavery with extra steps"......Morty Smith



So giving people food, shelter, and a way to earn income translates as slavery to you? It's not like I am talking about forcing them. I am just saying that hey instead of being homeless would you like a job that feeds you, houses you, and lets you earn money by saving the planet.

That is not slavery. It's called on opportunity to get your life back and doing something good and decent.

Now if we did that with people in prison then that would be slavery. I would support it though for the nonviolent criminal on a voluntary basis.

The real question is would the homeless people take up the chance to work or would they rather stay homeless. Many o four homeless suffer from depression and find it hard to motivate themselves beyond just survival. They really need encouragement and help IMHO.
Posted By: Razorthorns Re: Oil - 10/07/18 10:20 PM
Originally Posted By: teedub
Originally Posted By: Razorthorns
The earth has been going through cycles of hot and cold since it was born. It's why we have ice ages and swamp ages. The earth will survive just fine.

That doesn't mean we shouldn't do everything we can to fix the things that are harming the planet. From what I have seen China is the one working the hardest to improve the world's climate by planting billions upon billions of trees yearly. Imagine if we took 1 million of the homeless population and gave them food, and shelter and paid them minimum wage to just plant trees full time. That is about 14 billion dollars a year to eliminate huge sections of desert and reverse desertification.

It's completely possible to turn desert into land with green grass, trees, and even rivers. The only thing stopping us is laziness. We already spend 455 billion on welfare. For just a bit more we can absolutely change the planet of the better.


I dont disagree to do somethings.....but your statement of do "everything" is unattainable, unrealistic and economic suicide. I work in an environmental industry (I have the certificate gage....multiple in fact)....the clients I serve spend millions cleaning up their water and waste....that water we discharge to local rivers are 1000s of times cleaner the the actual local water ways...yet the local waterways have issues...so we are being required to polish our already super clean water even more at a steep cost....you see removing 98% of the pollution is easy and can be do e cost effectively...the next 2 percent is crazy hard and expensive...yet that is the goal we are being forced into.....all the while other non point source discharges are blowing billions of tons of the same pollutants out and never even looked at to reduce their contributions.

I could theorize that doing everything in our power should include a limit on the number of internal combustion vehicles you own that gets a minimum 30 mpg to 1 per family of 4 and a limit to the number of gallons of gas you are able to buy per month. then one additional engine but just one for riding mower, push mower,weedeater,snowblower,leaf blower etc..thermostat control no warmer the 65 while heating..no cooler the 78 when cooling... cremation For everyone as cemeteries would better serve our mother earth if planted with trees and not needing crews constantly running mowers over the pretty grass ...all of these things will reduce your CO2 foot print and fall in the category of " doing everything we can...I can come up with more to illustrate if needed.....that's the fallacy of the emotional statement EVERYTHING.


Look I don't pretend to be an environmental expert. I do know that some things are easier to clean up and deal with than others. I also know that some toxic substances cause severe and long term damage. I don't expect pure clean water to come out but I do expect us to stop companies from putting toxic chemicals into our water supply. If you can't run your business without poisoning the water then your business should be shut down because clean fresh water is the most important need of all human beings. We CAN'T live without clean water.

I will grant that there is probably too much regulation but if that 2% contains truly toxic material then of course it has to be fixed. I mean I'm sorry just because your company wants to make money doesn't give them the right to poison the water. IF that 2% is fairly harmless then I agree with you that it should be loosed up a bit.

I don't agree with any argument though that says since "A" doesn't do it then "B" shouldn't have to do it either. Instead we should make "A" do it too so that everyone is doing what they need to do not move towards having it so no one does what they need to do.
Posted By: Razorthorns Re: Oil - 10/07/18 10:44 PM
Originally Posted By: CHSDawg
Originally Posted By: archbolddawg
Originally Posted By: archbolddawg
Has the earth warmed and cooled since its existence?


So, I haven't seen a response to this from the so called 'uber intelligent'.
Originally Posted By: CHSDawg
For the cyclical people, if nature is cyclical and we go through warming and cooling periods, then shouldn't the rate of temp change be somewhat similar to other cycles?


Probably because you got pre-empted. But I get it, I've never once seen a con answer my question.


I thought I did but I guess it didn't satisfy you. There is definite proof aplenty that the earth heats and cools in 20,000 year and 100,000 year cycles. The end of the last ice age is proof of that alone. Do you think humans caused the end of the last ice age?

Here is a good article to read by the University of Utah:

https://geology.utah.gov/map-pub/survey-...at-causes-them/

Geology easily proves the earth has been heating up and cooling down since the earth got tectonic plates. Volcanoes just on the pacific rim can pump out so much gas that they can warm the earth overnight if they go off often enough which tends to happen as ice builds up on a place like Antartica or Greenland because those ice sheets put direct weight on landmasses. Ice sheets at the North Pole that are floating on water don't effect things much because their mass is distributed over large areas of water that dissipates the pressure quite a bit.

That doesn't mean that mankind doesn't have an effect. It certainly does. Still the most effect way to stop global warming is to work on reversing desert areas back into at least grasslands and preferably forests.

Here are some videos of it being done to great effect.













God charged us with taking care of this planet. I say we start getting to it and get it done. Enough with the excuses.
Posted By: gage Re: Oil - 10/08/18 01:19 AM
What? What scientists have said vaccines cause autism? The only real name is Andrew Wakefield, and he's lost his medical license as a result of spreading the FUD around vaccines.

I also said nothing about any scientist proposing a paper sowing doubt about AGW to not be a serious view. Consensus is not unanimous. It means that it's generally agreed upon. If a scientist discovers that CO2 is rising non correlative to man made sources then it would be enough to challenge the consensus.

I again need you to elaborate on my saying only formal educated people need a seat at the table. Can you quote me on this?
Posted By: teedub Re: Oil - 10/08/18 10:54 AM
Originally Posted By: Razorthorns
Originally Posted By: teedub
Originally Posted By: Razorthorns
The earth has been going through cycles of hot and cold since it was born. It's why we have ice ages and swamp ages. The earth will survive just fine.

That doesn't mean we shouldn't do everything we can to fix the things that are harming the planet. From what I have seen China is the one working the hardest to improve the world's climate by planting billions upon billions of trees yearly. Imagine if we took 1 million of the homeless population and gave them food, and shelter and paid them minimum wage to just plant trees full time. That is about 14 billion dollars a year to eliminate huge sections of desert and reverse desertification.

It's completely possible to turn desert into land with green grass, trees, and even rivers. The only thing stopping us is laziness. We already spend 455 billion on welfare. For just a bit more we can absolutely change the planet of the better.


I dont disagree to do somethings.....but your statement of do "everything" is unattainable, unrealistic and economic suicide. I work in an environmental industry (I have the certificate gage....multiple in fact)....the clients I serve spend millions cleaning up their water and waste....that water we discharge to local rivers are 1000s of times cleaner the the actual local water ways...yet the local waterways have issues...so we are being required to polish our already super clean water even more at a steep cost....you see removing 98% of the pollution is easy and can be do e cost effectively...the next 2 percent is crazy hard and expensive...yet that is the goal we are being forced into.....all the while other non point source discharges are blowing billions of tons of the same pollutants out and never even looked at to reduce their contributions.

I could theorize that doing everything in our power should include a limit on the number of internal combustion vehicles you own that gets a minimum 30 mpg to 1 per family of 4 and a limit to the number of gallons of gas you are able to buy per month. then one additional engine but just one for riding mower, push mower,weedeater,snowblower,leaf blower etc..thermostat control no warmer the 65 while heating..no cooler the 78 when cooling... cremation For everyone as cemeteries would better serve our mother earth if planted with trees and not needing crews constantly running mowers over the pretty grass ...all of these things will reduce your CO2 foot print and fall in the category of " doing everything we can...I can come up with more to illustrate if needed.....that's the fallacy of the emotional statement EVERYTHING.


Look I don't pretend to be an environmental expert. I do know that some things are easier to clean up and deal with than others. I also know that some toxic substances cause severe and long term damage. I don't expect pure clean water to come out but I do expect us to stop companies from putting toxic chemicals into our water supply. If you can't run your business without poisoning the water then your business should be shut down because clean fresh water is the most important need of all human beings. We CAN'T live without clean water.

I will grant that there is probably too much regulation but if that 2% contains truly toxic material then of course it has to be fixed. I mean I'm sorry just because your company wants to make money doesn't give them the right to poison the water. IF that 2% is fairly harmless then I agree with you that it should be loosed up a bit.

I don't agree with any argument though that says since "A" doesn't do it then "B" shouldn't have to do it either. Instead we should make "A" do it too so that everyone is doing what they need to do not move towards having it so no one does what they need to do.


Ok let me be more specific...muni wastewater plants put out very clean effluent...the sewage sludge is highly regulated and treated and very environmental friendly when it comes to beneficial reuse via pathogen reduction, vector attraction and nutrient recovery. It also has a variety of use and setback restrictions that must be followed as added precautions. The current issue of the day in environmental circles is phosphorus removal. Most waste water plants are very effective and getting phos out of their flow to levels under 2 mg/L...getting it down to 1 mg/l or lower is expensive....yet the phos bank that is building in farm fields from fertilizer application and the spreading of untreated manure with little regard to set backs which allows runoff from farm fields and animal lots to far exceed water quality standards that point source dischargers are held to....and we wonder why the rivers and streams are not getting better. If you buy an abandoned house that was trashed and you need to clean it up to sell it you dont just start off by dusting which is where we are at in the US dealing with phosphorus in our rivers.
Posted By: teedub Re: Oil - 10/08/18 11:08 AM
Originally Posted By: gage
What? What scientists have said vaccines cause autism? The only real name is Andrew Wakefield, and he's lost his medical license as a result of spreading the FUD around vaccines.

I also said nothing about any scientist proposing a paper sowing doubt about AGW to not be a serious view. Consensus is not unanimous. It means that it's generally agreed upon. If a scientist discovers that CO2 is rising non correlative to man made sources then it would be enough to challenge the consensus.

I again need you to elaborate on my saying only formal educated people need a seat at the table. Can you quote me on this?


You have stated implied several times in this thread that layman views are just talking points regurgitated from news sources and that any layman that discusses the issue in a way that goes against what some scientists say is kinda pointless...you used a surgeon example in a response to 40..you also had a pilot example...surgeons do surgery, pilots fly plans, scientists do science...layman??? well you implied they need to take a back seat and let the professionals handle it.

As far as vaccines....you said layman find vaccine/autism links controversial...as they should because there is no real science behind it besides a guy that has been debunked and a few celebrities...but then you lump the vaccine issue in with evolution and AGW as if the "controversy to layman issue" is apples to apples...i can put evolution and AGW in a similar category....but vaccines causing autism?? I get it...new parents have irrationale fears of every boogie man that gets mentioned...I see it with my brother who has a kid under two.
Posted By: Razorthorns Re: Oil - 10/08/18 01:08 PM
Originally Posted By: teedub
Originally Posted By: Razorthorns
Originally Posted By: teedub
Originally Posted By: Razorthorns
The earth has been going through cycles of hot and cold since it was born. It's why we have ice ages and swamp ages. The earth will survive just fine.

That doesn't mean we shouldn't do everything we can to fix the things that are harming the planet. From what I have seen China is the one working the hardest to improve the world's climate by planting billions upon billions of trees yearly. Imagine if we took 1 million of the homeless population and gave them food, and shelter and paid them minimum wage to just plant trees full time. That is about 14 billion dollars a year to eliminate huge sections of desert and reverse desertification.

It's completely possible to turn desert into land with green grass, trees, and even rivers. The only thing stopping us is laziness. We already spend 455 billion on welfare. For just a bit more we can absolutely change the planet of the better.


I dont disagree to do somethings.....but your statement of do "everything" is unattainable, unrealistic and economic suicide. I work in an environmental industry (I have the certificate gage....multiple in fact)....the clients I serve spend millions cleaning up their water and waste....that water we discharge to local rivers are 1000s of times cleaner the the actual local water ways...yet the local waterways have issues...so we are being required to polish our already super clean water even more at a steep cost....you see removing 98% of the pollution is easy and can be do e cost effectively...the next 2 percent is crazy hard and expensive...yet that is the goal we are being forced into.....all the while other non point source discharges are blowing billions of tons of the same pollutants out and never even looked at to reduce their contributions.

I could theorize that doing everything in our power should include a limit on the number of internal combustion vehicles you own that gets a minimum 30 mpg to 1 per family of 4 and a limit to the number of gallons of gas you are able to buy per month. then one additional engine but just one for riding mower, push mower,weedeater,snowblower,leaf blower etc..thermostat control no warmer the 65 while heating..no cooler the 78 when cooling... cremation For everyone as cemeteries would better serve our mother earth if planted with trees and not needing crews constantly running mowers over the pretty grass ...all of these things will reduce your CO2 foot print and fall in the category of " doing everything we can...I can come up with more to illustrate if needed.....that's the fallacy of the emotional statement EVERYTHING.


Look I don't pretend to be an environmental expert. I do know that some things are easier to clean up and deal with than others. I also know that some toxic substances cause severe and long term damage. I don't expect pure clean water to come out but I do expect us to stop companies from putting toxic chemicals into our water supply. If you can't run your business without poisoning the water then your business should be shut down because clean fresh water is the most important need of all human beings. We CAN'T live without clean water.

I will grant that there is probably too much regulation but if that 2% contains truly toxic material then of course it has to be fixed. I mean I'm sorry just because your company wants to make money doesn't give them the right to poison the water. IF that 2% is fairly harmless then I agree with you that it should be loosed up a bit.

I don't agree with any argument though that says since "A" doesn't do it then "B" shouldn't have to do it either. Instead we should make "A" do it too so that everyone is doing what they need to do not move towards having it so no one does what they need to do.


Ok let me be more specific...muni wastewater plants put out very clean effluent...the sewage sludge is highly regulated and treated and very environmental friendly when it comes to beneficial reuse via pathogen reduction, vector attraction and nutrient recovery. It also has a variety of use and setback restrictions that must be followed as added precautions. The current issue of the day in environmental circles is phosphorus removal. Most waste water plants are very effective and getting phos out of their flow to levels under 2 mg/L...getting it down to 1 mg/l or lower is expensive....yet the phos bank that is building in farm fields from fertilizer application and the spreading of untreated manure with little regard to set backs which allows runoff from farm fields and animal lots to far exceed water quality standards that point source dischargers are held to....and we wonder why the rivers and streams are not getting better. If you buy an abandoned house that was trashed and you need to clean it up to sell it you don't just start off by dusting which is where we are at in the US dealing with phosphorus in our rivers.


I understand you. I agree that everyone needs to do their part. It's one of the reason I prefer more modern aquaponics farming to traditional farming because it uses zero fertilizers, completely organic, uses zero pesticides, and produces a far superior tasting product with zero pollution. Not to mention it yields thousands of pounds of fish that have zero contaminants and 100 percent healthy to eat.

I'm also against raising livestock that doesn't get to graze naturally and isn't moved from one pasture to another. Herds of livestock that are moved around from large grazing area to another is actually beneficial to the environment. The big problem is when they coral them and force feed them in small areas that then get destroyed from overgrazing or no grazing at all. I actually think there should be a livestock treatment act passed that forces commercial farmers to treat animals with some decency. I personally hate seeing animals kept in a tiny metal pen their entire lives.
Posted By: Razorthorns Re: Oil - 10/08/18 01:16 PM
When it comes to vaccines things have improved quite a bit. Doctors have started to stagger them so they are not giving 5 vaccines at once and if you request it they will even have the 3 in one vaccines done one at a time. They also don't use such high mercury content preservers anymore for most vaccines which was the big issue for many worried about vaccines causing autism.

I do think it was a real issue and I am glad it was fought over. I also think it has been addressed and corrected for the most part and there is zero reason not to get immunized. If you have a doctor that refuses to stagger the immunization shots then get a new doctor.
Posted By: teedub Re: Oil - 10/08/18 03:55 PM
I assume the lack of staggering vaccines was in large part due to the high probability that people would not return their child in a timely manner to get the vaccines as needed.

as far as vaccines and autism go...I kinda question the use of the varicella vaccine...that vaccine was in use during the 60/70/80/early 90s. The rate of autism diagnosis is said to been on the rise since 2000 (actually on the rise or just better diagnosis of patients then in years past...legit question)...If it is on the rise one wonders what is different between now and the 70's....yea lots...but an obvious one is the chicken pox vaccine..talk about a vaccine for convenience sake. But could its increased use be correlated with the autism rise...I don't know...but I do know there is not much use for the vaccine.
Posted By: gage Re: Oil - 10/08/18 08:59 PM
Originally Posted By: teedub
You have stated implied several times in this thread that layman views are just talking points regurgitated from news sources and that any layman that discusses the issue in a way that goes against what some scientists say is kinda pointless...you used a surgeon example in a response to 40..you also had a pilot example...surgeons do surgery, pilots fly plans, scientists do science...layman??? well you implied they need to take a back seat and let the professionals handle it.


I don't think you need to have a degree to be considered a professional in a field. Experience trumps education for me most of the time because education is mean to prepare you for what you see in the field. I only have 2 years education (practically uneducated) and manage people with bachelors and masters degrees. Yet I am their resource and mentor because my experience beats theirs by 10+ years.

It appears you are in effect asserting that if a layman proffers a viewpoint that is in contrast to the professional community consensus, that it must be given equal consideration. I disagree because that's a waste of time.

Example: If a layman tells me that writing my code in C++ is wrong and I should be using C# or Go, and their "evidence" is that C++ is an old language, I'm going to shake my head and laugh. I won't spend time trying to debate and argue why they are wrong. I will not talk about stuff that goes over their head like garbage collection, portability, application binary compatibility, or runtime performance for my applications. They won't get it. The same thing would happen explaining AGW to laymen. Understanding the whole picture and why certain decisions are made take alot of data, time, and analysis. Saying "clouds mean AGW doesn't exist" would be like me telling someone to make a computer program faster by "just threading the whole thing" and then waiting for their resignations because their boss (me) is an idiot.

Quote:
As far as vaccines....you said layman find vaccine/autism links controversial...as they should because there is no real science behind it besides a guy that has been debunked and a few celebrities...but then you lump the vaccine issue in with evolution and AGW as if the "controversy to layman issue" is apples to apples...i can put evolution and AGW in a similar category....but vaccines causing autism?? I get it...new parents have irrationale fears of every boogie man that gets mentioned...I see it with my brother who has a kid under two.


I'm not sure I get this here so I'll just further clarify: There is absolutely no link found between vaccinations and autism. Even if there WAS a link, in the numbers typically cited, it's still better to vaccinate. Your kids chances of getting autism would be much lower than your kids chances of getting polio/measles/mumps/etc in a non vaccinated world. So yes, it is apples to apples. The only people wondering about the link between vaccines and autism are people who have no professional background in the fields of medicine required to make an educated statement. The only reason people in the medical field even put forward papers debunking it was because Wakefield had at one time an air of authenticity, and due to the overall outrage from people who aren't doctors.
Posted By: OldColdDawg Re: Oil - 10/08/18 09:16 PM
Has anybody else noticed gas is $3 a gallon again? It always seems to skyrocket when a republican is in office. Trump might want to do something about that for working folks.
Posted By: BuckDawg1946 Re: Oil - 10/13/18 07:35 AM
Too much renewable energy in the United States,

Shot across the bow to republicans and south. Slaves, tobacco, oil, these are generational landmarks. We are losing the one thing we can’t replace, biodiversity.

Planet Earth is an extremely diverse place, don’t lose that.
Posted By: BuckDawg1946 Re: Oil - 10/28/18 04:12 AM
I’m still waiting for republicans and the south to give counter evidence. You don’t believe humans significantly impact our climate.

Amongst college educated humans on planet earth, you represent 2% of authorities on the matter. You should all be ashamed. You rallied for the 1%, big oil, while kicking biodiversity to the wasteside.

You are a puppet, of the darkest points in United States history, congratulations. You know it, yet you stand behind your elephant and confederate flag. I weep for your children.
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