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#1523217 10/06/18 03:04 AM
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Correct me if I’m wrong.

The south advocates for oil, the north renewable energy. Gay marriage, marijuana, these are ideologies that will come to the south last.

I take a shot across your bow, because it messes with biodiversity. We can fight amongst ourselves, humans. I have to speak for the species that can’t speak for themselves.

Republicans and the south have explaining to do, I want answers.


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BuckDawg1946 #1523221 10/06/18 03:38 AM
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Confirmation bias.

Climate change skeptics/deniers don't want to admit it may be happening . Not one bit. Even if they say the Earth is warmer, it's not man's faults etc.

It's because the major driver of AGW is corporate and state based. The only way to reign that in would be regulations. Regulations dig into profits. In today's global world it is hard to compete in both regulated and unregulated countries.


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gage #1523227 10/06/18 05:42 AM
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Originally Posted By: gage
Confirmation bias.

Even if they say the Earth is warmer, it's not man's faults etc.



This photo was taken Oct. 2, 2018, on Hiway 2 outside of Browning Mt. The winters are starting earlier and lasting longer...global cooling?



fishtheice #1523235 10/06/18 08:03 AM
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this was about as bad as that one politician who brought in a snowball to prove that global warming isn't real.


“To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public.”

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BuckDawg1946 #1523241 10/06/18 08:54 AM
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Is it global warming or is it climate change??? Really hard to keep up with the moving goal posts.

teedub #1523282 10/06/18 11:46 AM
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It is Global Warming and it has been going on since before the Bering Sea was a land bridge and Glaciers reached all the way to Virginia.

Last edited by 40YEARSWAITING; 10/06/18 11:49 AM.
fishtheice #1523286 10/06/18 11:54 AM
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Originally Posted By: fishtheice
Originally Posted By: gage
Confirmation bias.

Even if they say the Earth is warmer, it's not man's faults etc.



This photo was taken Oct. 2, 2018, on Hiway 2 outside of Browning Mt. The winters are starting earlier and lasting longer...global cooling?





Extreme weather patterns? I wasn't aware that Browning, expanded the entire globe. It didn't seem THAT big when I was there. You do understand what 'global' means right.

teedub #1523288 10/06/18 11:55 AM
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Originally Posted By: teedub
Is it global warming or is it climate change??? Really hard to keep up with the moving goal posts.


If the globe is warming, wouldn't the be part of climate change? Inquiring minds would like to know.

BuckDawg1946 #1523291 10/06/18 12:03 PM
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For the cyclical people, if nature is cyclical and we go through warming and cooling periods, then shouldn't the rate of temp change be somewhat similar to other cycles?

CHSDawg #1523301 10/06/18 12:22 PM
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Originally Posted By: CHSDawg
Originally Posted By: teedub
Is it global warming or is it climate change??? Really hard to keep up with the moving goal posts.


If the globe is warming, wouldn't the be part of climate change? Inquiring minds would like to know.


Cause and Effect.

BuckDawg1946 #1523303 10/06/18 12:24 PM
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Some wish to deny the fact that for each action there is an equal and opposite reaction.


Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.

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gage #1523307 10/06/18 12:33 PM
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Originally Posted By: gage
Confirmation bias.

Climate change skeptics/deniers don't want to admit it may be happening . Not one bit. Even if they say the Earth is warmer, it's not man's faults etc.

It's because the major driver of AGW is corporate and state based. The only way to reign that in would be regulations. Regulations dig into profits. In today's global world it is hard to compete in both regulated and unregulated countries.



Don't forget those who deny the fact that just like oil, profits drive the clean energy, carbon taxes, Paris Accord folks as well. It is mostly about controlling the money.

This is why so many Scientists were caught fudging their reports years ago. Much like the Scientists fudged in support of Tobacco years before that.

Money makes the world go round.

40YEARSWAITING #1523309 10/06/18 12:43 PM
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So we have a choice of investing the money in clean energy or dirty energy.


Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.

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PitDAWG #1523312 10/06/18 01:00 PM
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Trump administration sees a 7-degree rise in global temperatures by 2100



September 28
Last month, deep in a 500-page environmental impact statement, the Trump administration made a startling assumption: On its current course, the planet will warm a disastrous seven degrees by the end of this century.

A rise of seven degrees Fahrenheit, or about four degrees Celsius, compared with preindustrial levels would be catastrophic, according to scientists. Many coral reefs would dissolve in increasingly acidic oceans. Parts of Manhattan and Miami would be underwater without costly coastal defenses. Extreme heat waves would routinely smother large parts of the globe.

But the administration did not offer this dire forecast, premised on the idea that the world will fail to cut its greenhouse gas emissions, as part of an argument to combat climate change. Just the opposite: The analysis assumes the planet’s fate is already sealed.

The draft statement, issued by the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration (NHTSA), was written to justify President Trump’s decision to freeze federal fuel-efficiency standards for cars and light trucks built after 2020. While the proposal would increase greenhouse gas emissions, the impact statement says, that policy would add just a very small drop to a very big, hot bucket.


“The amazing thing they’re saying is human activities are going to lead to this rise of carbon dioxide that is disastrous for the environment and society. And then they’re saying they’re not going to do anything about it,” said Michael MacCracken, who served as a senior scientist at the U.S. Global Change Research Program from 1993 to 2002.

The document projects that global temperature will rise by nearly 3.5 degrees Celsius above the average temperature between 1986 and 2005 regardless of whether Obama-era tailpipe standards take effect or are frozen for six years, as the Trump administration has proposed. The global average temperature rose more than 0.5 degrees Celsius between 1880, the start of industrialization, and 1986, so the analysis assumes a roughly four degree Celsius or seven degree Fahrenheit increase from preindustrial levels.

The world would have to make deep cuts in carbon emissions to avoid this drastic warming, the analysis states. And that “would require substantial increases in technology innovation and adoption compared to today’s levels and would require the economy and the vehicle fleet to move away from the use of fossil fuels, which is not currently technologically feasible or economically feasible.”


The White House did not respond to requests for comment.

World leaders have pledged to keep the world from warming more than two degrees Celsius compared with preindustrial levels, and agreed to try to keep the temperature rise to 1.5 degrees Celsius. But the current greenhouse gas cuts pledged under the 2015 Paris climate agreement are not steep enough to meet either goal. Scientists predict a four degree Celsius rise by the century’s end if countries take no meaningful actions to curb their carbon output.

Trump has vowed to exit the Paris accord and called climate change a hoax. In the past two months, the White House has pushed to dismantle nearly half a dozen major rules aimed at reducing greenhouse gases, deregulatory moves intended to save companies hundreds of millions of dollars.

If enacted, the administration’s proposals would give new life to aging coal plants; allow oil and gas operations to release more methane into the atmosphere; and prevent new curbs on greenhouse gases used in refrigerators and air-conditioning units. The vehicle rule alone would put 8 billion additional tons of carbon dioxide in the atmosphere this century, more than a year’s worth of total U.S. emissions, according to the government’s own analysis.


Administration estimates acknowledge that the policies would release far more greenhouse gas emissions from America’s energy and transportation sectors than otherwise would have been allowed.

Florence from above: Aerial photos of flooding and damage from the hurricane View Graphic 

The statement is the latest evidence of deep contradictions in the Trump administration’s approach to climate change.

Despite Trump’s skepticism, federal agencies conducting scientific research have often reaffirmed that humans are causing climate change, including in a major 2017 report that found “no convincing alternative explanation.” In one internal White House memo, officials wondered whether it would be best to simply “ignore” such analyses.

In this context, the draft environmental impact statement from NHTSA — which simultaneously outlines a scenario for very extreme climate change, and yet offers it to support an environmental rollback — is simply the latest apparent inconsistency.

David Pettit, a senior attorney at the Natural Resources Defense Council who testified against Trump’s freeze of car mileage standards Monday in Fresno, Calif., said his organization is prepared to use the administration’s own numbers to challenge its regulatory rollbacks. He noted that NHTSA document projects that if the world takes no action to curb emissions, current atmospheric concentrations of carbon dioxide would rise from 410 parts per million to 789 ppm by 2100.


“I was shocked when I saw it,” Pettit said in a phone interview. “These are their numbers. They aren’t our numbers.”

Conservatives who condemned President Barack Obama’s climate initiatives as regulatory overreach have defended the Trump administration’s approach, calling it a more reasonable course.

Obama’s climate policies were costly to industry and yet “mostly symbolic,” because they would have made barely a dent in global carbon dioxide emissions, said Heritage Foundation research fellow Nick Loris, adding: “Frivolous is a good way to describe it.”

NHTSA commissioned ICF International Inc., a consulting firm based in Fairfax, Va., to help prepare the impact statement. An agency spokeswoman said the Environmental Protection Agency “and NHTSA welcome comments on all aspects of the environmental analysis” but declined to provide additional information about the agency’s long-term temperature forecast.

Federal agencies typically do not include century-long climate projections in their environmental impact statements. Instead, they tend to assess a regulation’s impact during the life of the program — the years a coal plant would run, for example, or the amount of time certain vehicles would be on the road.

Using the no-action scenario “is a textbook example of how to lie with statistics,” said MIT Sloan School of Management professor John Sterman. “First, the administration proposes vehicle efficiency policies that would do almost nothing [to fight climate change]. Then [the administration] makes their impact seem even smaller by comparing their proposals to what would happen if the entire world does nothing.”

This week, U.N. Secretary-General António Guterres warned leaders gathered in New York, “If we do not change course in the next two years, we risk runaway climate change . . . Our future is at stake.”


Yes, humans have made wildfires worse. Here?s how. View Graphic 

Federal and independent research — including projections included in last month’s analysis of the revised fuel-efficiency standards — echoes that theme. The environmental impact statement cites “evidence of climate-induced changes,” such as more frequent droughts, floods, severe storms and heat waves, and estimates that seas could rise nearly three feet globally by 2100 if the world does not decrease its carbon output.

Two articles published in the journal Science since late July — both co-authored by federal scientists — predicted that the global landscape could be transformed “without major reductions in greenhouse gas emissions” and declared that soaring temperatures worldwide bore humans’ “fingerprint.”

“With this administration, it’s almost as if this science is happening in another galaxy,” said Rachel Cleetus, policy director and lead economist for the Union of Concerned Scientists’ climate and energy program. “That feedback isn’t informing the policy.”

Administration officials say they take federal scientific findings into account when crafting energy policy — along with their interpretation of the law and Trump’s agenda. The EPA’s acting administrator, Andrew Wheeler, has been among the Trump officials who have noted that U.S. emissions of carbon dioxide and other pollutants have fallen over time.

But the debate comes after a troubling summer of devastating wildfires, record-breaking heat and a catastrophic hurricane — each of which, federal scientists say, signals a warming world.

Some Democratic elected officials, such as Washington Gov. Jay Inslee, said Americans are starting to recognize these events as evidence of climate change. On Feb. 25, Inslee met privately with several Cabinet officials, including then-EPA chief Scott Pruitt, and Western state governors. Inslee accused them of engaging in “morally reprehensible” behavior that threatened his children and grandchildren, according to four meeting participants, who spoke on the condition of anonymity to provide details of the private conversation.

In an interview, Inslee said that the ash from wildfires that covered Washington residents’ car hoods this summer, and the acrid smoke that filled their air, has made more voters of both parties grasp the real-world implications of climate change.

“There is anger in my state about the administration’s failure to protect us,” he said. “When you taste it on your tongue, it’s a reality.”



A woman looks at rising floodwaters from the garage of a home in Soddy-Daisy, Tenn., on Wednesday, Sept. 26, 2018. (Doug Strickland/Chattanooga Times Free Press/Associated Press)

https://www.washingtonpost.com/national/...m=.6f6bf3ae4a8b

BuckDawg1946 #1523315 10/06/18 01:16 PM
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Practically every reply in this thread so far does a good job showing the confirmation bias. Not worth having a discussion these days.

Arguing about AGW with forum posters would be like an average Joe telling a orthopedic surgeon how to do his job. It makes no sense yet here we are. We live in a world where people with no formal education on economics, sciences, and other deep topics feel just as educated because a talking head told them what's going on.


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gage #1523320 10/06/18 01:46 PM
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It must be frustrating when people you feel you are much smarter than question your beliefs and you have no answer except to say they are stupid.

40YEARSWAITING #1523322 10/06/18 01:56 PM
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Originally Posted By: 40YEARSWAITING
Originally Posted By: CHSDawg
Originally Posted By: teedub
Is it global warming or is it climate change??? Really hard to keep up with the moving goal posts.


If the globe is warming, wouldn't the be part of climate change? Inquiring minds would like to know.


Cause and Effect.


Exactly. They go hand and hand.

gage #1523336 10/06/18 02:52 PM
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Originally Posted By: gage
Practically every reply in this thread so far does a good job showing the confirmation bias. Not worth having a discussion these days.

Arguing about AGW with forum posters would be like an average Joe telling a orthopedic surgeon how to do his job. It makes no sense yet here we are. We live in a world where people with no formal education on economics, sciences, and other deep topics feel just as educated because a talking head told them what's going on.


Ok...these guys have the formal education you are looking for...

https://www.google.com/amp/s/phys.org/news/2016-08-solar-impact-earth-cloud.amp

I have always thought the big guy in the sky was pretty significant in the discussion for reasons ignored because TPTB would have a hard time blaming g the end of the world on something we can't control...thus not having the ability to control the masses.

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I tend to think that its kind of asinine to think that Human activity has not/will not have any affect on the climate.

Humans have been dominating the earth for centuries. We bend nature to our will on a daily basis, and yet some folks seem to think that our actions couldn't possibly affect the climate.....that's just ludicrous.


We've consistently polluted the air, soil, and water around the world, There are places where radioactive materials have left land uninhabitable for humans for hundreds of years, we have detected pharmaceuticals in salt and fresh water, and we have caused rampant air pollution and smog around our major cities....but, by some kind of Dick Goddardian Magic there's no conceivable way the climate could be affected by us....We can affect everything else....just not that.....


Just seems ignorant...


I wish to wash my Irish wristwatch......
40YEARSWAITING #1523344 10/06/18 03:06 PM
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Originally Posted By: 40YEARSWAITING
It must be frustrating when people you feel you are much smarter than question your beliefs and you have no answer except to say they are stupid.


Theres a great deal of ignorance that comes from assuming you know everything. That is your position, so you feel free to own and enjoy that. If you need surgery in the future you should self operate since you clearly know more than everyone!

Last edited by gage; 10/06/18 03:21 PM.

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teedub #1523345 10/06/18 03:09 PM
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If scientists find a smoking gun that AGW isn't happening , then I will for sure listen. My mind isn't made up. But what you just did is post about a paper on a small segment of the complex system known as climate , and extrapolated the meanings by your own biases and ignorance . Unless you are a climate scientist of course and have more details to provide, I can't think of anyone in this thread that isn't but a layman on the topic.

Should laymen fly planes? Should laymen develop vehicle structural frames? Then why are laymen considered knowledgeable on this.


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gage #1523350 10/06/18 03:20 PM
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Originally Posted By: gage
If scientists find a smoking gun that AGW isn't happening , then I will for sure listen. My mind isn't made up. But what you just did is post about a paper on a small segment of the complex system known as climate , and extrapolated the meanings by your own biases and ignorance . Unless you are a climate scientist of course and have more details to provide, I can't think of anyone in this thread that isn't but a layman on the topic.

Should laymen fly planes? Should laymen develop vehicle structural frames? Then why are laymen considered knowledgeable on this.


See post #1523320

gage #1523352 10/06/18 03:28 PM
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Originally Posted By: gage
Originally Posted By: 40YEARSWAITING
It must be frustrating when people you feel you are much smarter than question your beliefs and you have no answer except to say they are stupid.


I'm a computer scientist and engineer in the world of real-time 3D graphics and design. What do you do?

Theres a great deal of ignorance that comes from assuming you know everything. That is your position, so you feel free to own and enjoy that. If you need surgery in the future you should self operate since you clearly know more than everyone!


So you are not a Climatologist? Then you don't know what you are talking about.

I base what I know on Science. The mere fact you want to debate Climate change and Global warming suggests it is an unsettled subject.

You wouldn't ask to debate something proven like Gravity.

So as you have stated, people who disagree with your view are idiots?
Ok. rolleyes

BuckDawg1946 #1523353 10/06/18 03:28 PM
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And for the sake of arguing with you....please show me evidence where at any time I said it was not getting warmer (or colder)...I take exception with the idea that man is the driving force behind the AGW theory...you are acting like the dems in the Kavanaugh hearing...you are accepting AWG as fact looking for it to be disproved....when in fact the scientific method says that the burden of proof lies in supporting the theory for it to become fact/law....Kinda of like the guilty before innocent movement we saw last week.

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I did, and responded.

Look, at this point your argument has no scientific merit. You have no scientific method or paper here showing me that AGW isn't real. You have your opinion. Saying the Earth and clouds impact climate is like saying the heat lamps in mcdonalds is heating a burger. Maybe that's true. But is that the only variable? Of course not.

Ive been bored today coming back from Europe on a business trip, so I'll duck out of here shortly. It's also hard to discuss climate change with people who argue in bad faith. And posting a scientific news article and saying "there" is not only bad faith, but demonstrates profound ignorance on your part in how the scientific community proves or disproves theories. So hey, you do you.


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40YEARSWAITING #1523355 10/06/18 03:31 PM
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I didn't post a view. I said the view of the community doing the most to understand something should be understood and respected.

Do you assume pilots don't know planes?
Do you assume auto mechanics don't know cars?

I don't go to climate scientists and ask them the best way to solve a rasterization performance problem. Why should they go to you and inquire about the study of climate ?

The idea that you think gravity is proven and climate change isn't shows your ignorance of science. But everyone here knows how much intelligence you have based on your posts.

Popping off to drive home. Good day !


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BuckDawg1946 #1523358 10/06/18 03:34 PM
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You were the one that came out and disparaged anyone from having an opinion or thought on a subject unless they had a certificate of approval from a division of higher education that pushes the agenda and the answers you seek.

But hey...you do you.

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Originally Posted By: gage
The idea that you think gravity is proven and MAN MADE climate change isn't shows your ignorance of science. But everyone here knows how much intelligence you have based on your posts.

Popping off to drive home. Good day !


Fixed it for ya...

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Has the earth warmed and cooled since its existence?

gage #1523362 10/06/18 03:41 PM
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Originally Posted By: gage
I didn't post a view. I said the view of the community doing the most to understand something should be understood and respected.

Do you assume pilots don't know planes?
Do you assume auto mechanics don't know cars?

I don't go to climate scientists and ask them the best way to solve a rasterization performance problem. Why should they go to you and inquire about the study of climate ?

The idea that you think gravity is proven and climate change isn't shows your ignorance of science. But everyone here knows how much intelligence you have based on your posts.

Popping off to drive home. Good day !


When we are scientifically discussing gravity, we can talk about the law of gravity that describes the attraction between two objects, and we can also talk about the theory of gravity that describes why the objects attract each other.

40YEARSWAITING #1523365 10/06/18 03:51 PM
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Originally Posted By: 40YEARSWAITING
It must be frustrating when people you feel you are much smarter than question your beliefs and you have no answer except to say they are stupid.



I'm sure it is. It also doesn't invalidate their claim. Some people really are stupid.

#factsstillmatter
#truthmeltsflakes


"too many notes, not enough music-"
Clemdawg #1523373 10/06/18 04:09 PM
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Originally Posted By: Clemdawg
Originally Posted By: 40YEARSWAITING
It must be frustrating when people you feel you are much smarter than question your beliefs and you have no answer except to say they are stupid.



I'm sure it is. It also doesn't invalidate their claim. Some people really are stupid.

#factsstillmatter
#truthmeltsflakes


Yes, I have noticed. It is usually those who disagree with you.

40YEARSWAITING #1523377 10/06/18 04:17 PM
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Take a lesson from that.
Oh, wait- lessons aren't really your thing, now are they?

I can only help you if you want to be helped.

Or you can just stay in your basket where it's warm and comfy.


"too many notes, not enough music-"
BuckDawg1946 #1523493 10/06/18 07:57 PM
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Originally Posted By: BuckDawg1946
Correct me if I’m wrong.

The south advocates for oil, the north renewable energy. Gay marriage, marijuana, these are ideologies that will come to the south last.

I take a shot across your bow, because it messes with biodiversity. We can fight amongst ourselves, humans. I have to speak for the species that can’t speak for themselves.

Republicans and the south have explaining to do, I want answers.


Medical Marijuana is already legal in the South for many conditions.

Same sex marriages are legal in Georgia.

So not sure where you get your info from.

Maybe you need to take the South out of your mouth.


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https://medicalmarijuana.procon.org/view.resource.php?resourceID=000881

if the south, you mean a whooping 4 states, then sure.


“To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public.”

- Theodore Roosevelt
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Originally Posted By: EveDawg
Originally Posted By: BuckDawg1946
Correct me if I’m wrong.

The south advocates for oil, the north renewable energy. Gay marriage, marijuana, these are ideologies that will come to the south last.

I take a shot across your bow, because it messes with biodiversity. We can fight amongst ourselves, humans. I have to speak for the species that can’t speak for themselves.

Republicans and the south have explaining to do, I want answers.


Medical Marijuana is already legal in the South for many conditions.

Same sex marriages are legal in Georgia.

So not sure where you get your info from.

Maybe you need to take the South out of your mouth.


I live in the reddest of the red states, and we just voted in medical marijuana.


#GMSTRONG
Swish #1523499 10/06/18 08:03 PM
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That map is incorrect because its quite factual the MM is legal in Georgia for many conditions, and more being approved all the time.


No Craps Given
EveDawg #1523505 10/06/18 08:07 PM
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Originally Posted By: EveDawg
That map is incorrect because its quite factual the MM is legal in Georgia for many conditions, and more being approved all the time.


https://www.ajc.com/news/state--regional...q8OZ7rdffKUZPM/

so first, its only allowed for certain conditions as you stated , but overall medical weed is still not legal. also, this is very recent in GA.

and recreational is still illegal.

so again, by the south, you mean a whooping 4 1/2 states, then sure.


“To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public.”

- Theodore Roosevelt
Swish #1523508 10/06/18 08:08 PM
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Originally Posted By: Swish
Originally Posted By: EveDawg
That map is incorrect because its quite factual the MM is legal in Georgia for many conditions, and more being approved all the time.


https://www.ajc.com/news/state--regional...q8OZ7rdffKUZPM/

so first, its only allowed for certain conditions as you stated , but overall medical weed is still not legal. also, this is very recent in GA.

and recreational is still illegal.

so again, by the south, you mean a whooping 4 1/2 states, then sure.


Keep lying, with your incorrect map, its all good.

They are even considering allowing dispensaries here.


No Craps Given
Swish #1523509 10/06/18 08:09 PM
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That old crap map only has 48 states on she.

We have MM here in Virginia too!

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