So this turned out to be a hoax. I commend the leftist on this board for not jumping all over this very obvious hoax.

I will never be able to look at the Mighty Ducks movie in the same light ever again.

You listen to Nazis, you're going to played as a fool. Last time you were quoting Infowars people. Not a good look.

But there is also this:

BpG is turning into the new Vambo.

His feelings don't care about facts.

If I am not mistaken, it was WGN that initially started reporting on it's findings last night about how the Chicago Police were picking up two people of interest from O'Hare. It ended with this tweet that starting the ripple down affect of people responding.

There are many people reporting about what is going on. Because this person references "one" person, it doesn't discredit the investigation and what people are turning over.

C'mon. Practice what you preach. I have no clue what the end result will be but you are being just as bad as the people you try and call out.

Here is some lengthy updates on the timeline re: Chicago Police and this case.

Pointing out that the major journalist behind the hoax story is also a CP5 truther is practicing what I preach. If I ever post wacky conspiracy theorist, I hope you guys call me out in it as well.

I'm waiting for a poster by the name of "The Ghost of PDF's Ghost" to chime in on this.

This is absurd. Shame on you.

Agreed. He's always been like Vambo, just with better writing.

Poor form.

He's posted stuff from Infowars on here before. Even 40 and Vambo realize that's a no go.

J/C

So does it look like this guy made it up, or what?

Too many reports contrary of the original claim at this point. This whole thing is a mess.

We'll probably never know. Chicago PD is in the top 5 least trust police departments in the nation. Even if they say "Nothing happened.", how many people will believe them?

This seems like laying the groundwork if a "hoax" is the end result.

Hank Voight disagree's with you.

Ok, but if that was the case - Chicago is a very democrat area - wouldn't it make more sense that it wouldn't be believed if it was the other way around?

I haven't paid but about 30 seconds attention to this, so I am not making any claims either way what so ever. just talking generality right now, Chicago is heavily left of center.

J/C

Personal opinion, I find it odd you that if this did indeed happen, it would have been plastered all over the news 24/7 on msnbc, nbc, abc, etc. i remember hearing about it at first, then basically nothing. seems like a HUGE story if this was true,

It's not the ground work, it's reality. The PD has, rightfully, had a horrible reputation with the city. No one believes them about anything. Look at Officer Van Dyke's trial.

Hank Voight type cops are the exact reason why people don't trust the CPD. That said, the actor was freaking amazing on Californication. Although I've seen his mangina more times than I can count. It certainly makes watching CPD a weird experience.

Chicago is actually very in the center politically. They might vote Democrat at a higher rate, but the Democrats and Republicans are the same with historically a differing on 5 or so subjects.

Chicago PD is one of the least trusted due to the amount of force its policemen use, how often they're involved in misconduct, how many cops they employ (I believe it's still the most cops per citizen per capita), and recently they got a multimillion dollar academy instead of focusing on local issues.

I gotta say, I def hate interacting with Chicago cops the most. Compared to NYC, Ohio, LA, Miami and Austin. I know when I visit Chicago, I'm always walking across the street if I see one.

j/c:

PICTURED - Two Nigerian actor brothers detained over Jussie Smollett attack, as it’s revealed they are FRIENDS with the Empire star amid claims the assault was staged to save his career

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article...t.html#comments

J/C

If they staged this....

I mean, you have to be some kind of sick, disgusting, whack job to make something like this up. Disgusting.

If it was staged it's a criminal act and should be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law.

agreed, but I doubt it would be more than a slap on the wrist.

j/c:

Agreed.

I have seen nothing except this thread about this story. Completely missed it somehow, glad I did at the moment.

It's probably a domestic dispute gone awry and this is a really stupid cover story.

Your first couple of posts in this thread aren't looking too hot.

If it turns out to be a hoax, what should he be prosecuted "to the fullest extent of the law" for?

Oh, because the guy registers fairly high on the intersectional chart that so many people were willing to believe his story to the fullest extent from the get go and now they look foolish for it? Let's be honest, that's the biggest thing people find upsetting about the likelihood it's a hoax.

It's not like anyone here cares about MAGA being wrongfully portrayed or Trump's reputation by extension being smeared lol

The only people out anything in that scenario are the cops. Filing a false police report is a misdemeanor. Does this dude deserve to go to jail for 60 days or more?

He'll get a pass. Largely because there's no real value in spending the resources to prosecute him.

https://www.cnn.com/2019/02/16/entertainment/jussie-smollett-attack/index.html

Hoax. What a disgusting scumbag.

https://www.nationalreview.com/corner/ju...by-his-friends/

And for laughs, he's now hired a criminal defense lawyer who was Trump's lawyer's lawyer. Hey scummy, put on your MAGA hat lol.

Thats second site may or may not be reputable. I am not familiar with it.

Meh, reminds me of the libs running around here, caught painting Nazi slogans on churches and such.

Nothing new for the left as they will do anything to promote their agenda.

No honor. No morals.

You should sell fertilizer with all your BS.

https://www.amren.com/tag/hate-crimes-and-hoaxes/

Here you go.

Jussie Smollet:Democrats::James O’Keefe:Republicans

Not even remotely the same other than they are both liars.

I have no idea how James O’Keefe has avoided jail for the stunts he has pulled.

Cory Booker 'withholding' judgment on Smollett case after calling it 'attempted modern-day lynching'

A Chicago police spokesperson on Saturday said "Empire" actor Jussie Smollett is no longer considered a victim in the case that allegedly involved an attack by two masked men who shouted racial and anti-gay slurs at the actor and, "This is MAGA country!"

No Honor, No Morals. Only the agenda.

Because he's done nothing illegal, with the exception of one misdemeanor.

I’ll wait to hear direct testimony or hear all the evidence from both accuser and accused before I make my judgement on this.

It’s not surprising tho, that the real issue is all but a lost cause here for people of color and other minorities. For one bad apple spoils the bunch, unless you are a white spoiled American that is.

Yep. That's the lesson to be learned in all of this.

"White spoiled American"-- what a stupid, stupid thing to say.

X-Actly.

No Honor, No Morals, No Ethics.

#Unhinged

I see you've finally decided to speak out against Trump.

j/c

I wonder when he's going to take a car and run over a bunch of conservatives, killing one of them?

If the Left came out and said, "We see Jussie is a liar but still stand against hate crimes in this Nation, there would be no problem. Coming out to blame everyone else for this instead of the guilty party is Unhinged, unethical, lacks morals or honor.

I have to admit, it feels good seeing an American scam Nigerian princes for once.

Not funny! I recognize one of those Nigerians and he is a Prince who owes me Lottery Winnings!

This one made me laugh.

But I agree with Karmala Harris, Its a Lynching!

Its a Lynching of the Right by the Left!
Its a Lynching of Whites by Blacks and Gays!
Its a Lynching of MAGA and Trump supporters by the Democrats!


It is a Political Hate Crime as the Left proves they are more Racist than what they would like the world to believe the rest of us are!

No Honor
No Morals
No Ethics
Only The Agenda!

U, sir, have lost da plot.

Looks like this a hoax....and the beat goes on, and the beat goes on

Is it White spoiled America or Trump's fault that Tawana Braley's son might be a liar and phoney?

I guess when fake news isn't enough then fake assault is the next logical step. Sad, so so sad!

j/c:

I'm waiting for the "EMPIRE" to strike back.

It's sad.

The world is filled with too many twerps.

Serious question here Spiral. Not trying to be a smartass. Why is it OK to call minorities people of color but if you call them color people you are a Racist Ahole?

I'll take a stab at it, even though another poster was asked.

It has primarily to do with the origins of both terms. "Colored People" was a term coined by Euro-Americans to describe those 'other americans' who descended from slavery. The terminology was their way of describing me and My Forebears to themselves/for themselves.

It's a feature of the days of American apartheid- and why you see those grainy, 40's/50's-era b&w photographs of public places in the South where the refrigerated, metal-housed drinking fountains are labeled with signs reading: "Whites Only"... while the raw city-feed porcelain fountains just 6 ft. away were labeled: "Colored."



"Person of Color" was a term coined (in the last 2 decades of the 20th c.) by people who fit that description in a Euro-dominated social culture. It was a label they adopted for themselves to depict any American/resident who was not European (ie: 'White'... and I'm no fan of that term, either. It's not accurate at all. I don't know anyone outside of Edgar Winter whose skin is the same color as typing paper...)


_____________________


It's why Clemdawg sees that being called 'Black' is generally preferable to being called 'Colored.' I stopped being "That little colored boy" around 1965-66.

Before my generation, 'Negro' was the other designation slapped on us by the group in power. There was no equivalent for 'Negro' in the languages of any captured/enslaved African people, despite their nation/region of origin.

Both were preferable to "The N-Bomb," (which was/is still used freely by the lowest-class americans among us) but neither term allowed for our own sense of identity or humanity, until we stood up and insisted that those names no longer be used in correct, polite society.

And most of American Society came along, because it was the respectable/considerate thing to do for a fellow American citizen.

So... the language of race/ethnicity is in a constant state of evolution, which requires a commitment to staying current. I make that effort for the same reason I call one of my friends Dave and another David: they each have a preference, and it's polite and proper for me to acknowledge that preference. It takes a little bit of effort, but really, it's just a little bit. Extra. But then again, I was raised by educators, clergy, scientists, artists and social pioneers who raised me to aim higher, dig deeper, and expect/require a li'l bit more of myself in issues of Humanity

("I don't care what the neighbor kids are allowed to settle for- we expect more from you and our family....")


This s# is second nature for me, because I was trained for it since I was a toddler. It took me many decades to finally realize/accept/acknowledge that not every kid in America was raised like me.

_______________


Dawg Duty: if you are truly sincere in your desire to know the difference, I've done my best to give you an introduction to the mindset at work that's caused you to ask the question. I hope you chase down some follow-up for yourself. Your question is a scratch on the top of the tip of the iceberg that is race relations in America.

Start digging in, bro.
This is as deep and wide as an ocean.
Commit to something like this, and you will be a changed Human Being.

Ask a question only if you are ready to receive an answer.
Most times, the first answer you get will only lead to more questions.


Glad I visited this thread tonight. Because you asked a serious question. And you weren't trying to be a smartass.

I still try, every now and then.

Dropping pearls.

I don't think calling a person "colored" makes you a "racist ahole." However, I think that people should be sensitive to the feelings of others.

Do we still refer to people as "retarded?" Do we call others a "Cripple?" Most of us do not because we realize those terms are not very sensitive.

Likewise, we have to consider the origins of when people were called "colored people." That term was the "polite" term for African Americans during a time when they were mostly called "Niggers" by many white Americans. It was an era when the entire race was looked down upon.

Furthermore, no one is actually "white." We're all "colored." The point is that the term "colored people" was used to identify a group of people in a negative light because it separated them from the rest of society.

We realize that term "retarded" is wrong even though we know that the word retard means "slow." We realize that it's also wrong to use the word "cripple" even though that person is physically handicapped. Perhaps it is time to realize thta calling someone a "colored person" is inappropriate, as well.

Yet clearly tiny minds come in all colors.

Thanks Clem. That works.

J/C,

I didn't realize 'ol Jussie is facing a Felony over this LOL

As he should. What a moron.

It's only a misdemeanor in my neck of the woods.

Smollett charged with filing false police report

Associated Press•February 20, 2019


CHICAGO (AP) — The Latest on the attack reported by Jussie Smollett (all times local):

6:55 p.m.

Chicago police say 'Empire' actor Jussie Smollett has been charged with felony disorderly conduct for allegedly filing a false police report when he reported that he was attacked by two masked men.

Department spokesman Anthony Guglielmi says the Cook County State's Attorney's office approved the felony charge on Wednesday afternoon. The charge is a Class 4 felony that carries a possible prison sentence of 1-3 years, but he could also receive probation.

Smollett reported to police that on Jan. 29 two masked men shouted racial and homophobic slurs at him, beat him, threw a chemical substance at him and looped a rope tied like a noose around his neck.

The charges against Smollett were filed after two men who allegedly took part in the scheme testified before a grand jury.

___

6:45 p.m.

An attorney representing two brothers implicated in the alleged scheme by 'Empire' actor Jussie Smollett to file a false police report in what he's said was an attack by masked men in Chicago last month says the two testified before a grand jury for a total of 2 ½ hours and that they did take money from Smollett.

Gloria Schmidt told reporters at the Chicago courthouse after Abimbola "Abel" and Olabinjo "Ola" Osundairo appeared before the grand jury on Wednesday that the two did not testify as part of any plea deal with prosecutors and said that the two were not granted any immunity from prosecution.

She said there was a point where the account of the men needed to be told and that they "manned up and said, 'We're gonna correct this.'"

The testimony came after the brothers were released from custody by police who said they were no longer suspects. Their testimony came the same day that police department said that Smollett is now considered a suspect for "filing a false police report" and that the case has been referred to a grand jury

___

4:55 p.m.

A spokeswoman says Chicago's top prosecutor recused herself from the Jussie Smollett investigation because she had had conversations with one of the "Empire" actor's family members and "facilitated a connection" with the police department.

Tandra Simonton said Wednesday that Cook County State's Attorney Kim Foxx recused herself from the case last week "out of an abundance of caution." The move was announced Tuesday.

Foxx's first assistant, Joe Magats, is overseeing the case.

A police official says Smollett is suspected of lying about the attack and that detectives were presenting evidence to a grand jury Wednesday afternoon.

Smollett has repeated stood by his account. The black and gay actor told police that two masked men attacked him early on Jan. 29 and hurled racist and homophobic slurs at him.

Smollett's lawyers didn't respond to repeated requests for comment on Wednesday.

___

4:30 p.m.

A police official says "Empire" actor Jussie Smollett is now considered a suspect "for filing a false police report" and that detectives are presenting the case against him to a grand jury.

Police spokesman Anthony Guglielmi tweeted the news on Wednesday after Smollett's attorneys met with prosecutors and detectives.

Smollett told police he was attacked by two masked men while walking home from a Subway sandwich shop at around 2 a.m. on Jan. 29. He says they beat him, hurled racist and homophobic insults at him and looped a rope around his neck before fleeing.

Police couldn't find surveillance video of the attack but questioned two men who were initially deemed as suspects but who were released Friday. On Saturday, Guglielmi said information from the men had "shifted" the investigation and that police want to speak to Smollett again.

___

3:10 p.m.

A police official says lawyers for Jussie Smollett are meeting with prosecutors and police investigators about the reported attack on the "Empire" actor late last month.

Police spokesman Anthony Guglielmi says the meeting was taking place Wednesday afternoon. He declined to confirm reports that subpoenas had been issued for Smollett's phone and bank records.

Smollett told police he was attacked by two masked men while walking home from a Subway sandwich shop at around 2 a.m. on Jan. 29. He says they beat him, hurled racist and homophobic insults at him and looped a rope around his neck before fleeing.

Police couldn't find surveillance video of the attack but questioned two men who were initially deemed as suspects but who were released Friday. On Saturday, Guglielmi said information from the men had "shifted" the investigation and that police want to speak to Smollett again.

___

11:45 a.m.

Fox Television says "Empire" actor Jussie Smollett "continues to be a consummate professional on set" and it has reiterated that he's not being written out of the show.

The statement issued Wednesday by 20th Century Fox Television and Fox Entertainment follows reports that Smollett's role on the show was being slashed amid police investigations into the actor's report that he was attacked in Chicago last month.

The 36-year old told Chicago police that two masked men beat him, yelled homophobic and racial slurs and looped a rope around his neck. Smollett is black and gay.

Police spokesman Anthony Guglielmi said last week that media reports about the attack being a hoax were unconfirmed by case detectives. Police said Saturday that their investigation had "shifted" after they interviewed two brothers who were arrested and later released.

___

6:40 a.m.

Chicago police say they've dismissed a tip that on the night "Empire" actor Jussie Smollett reported being attacked by two masked men, he was in an elevator at his apartment building with two brothers later arrested and released from custody.

Police spokesman Anthony Guglielmi said Tuesday that a person in the building reported seeing the three together the night in question last month. But he says video evidence shows the report isn't credible.

Guglielmi says the two brothers meet with investigators Tuesday. There was no immediate word on what they discussed.

Smollett has said two masked men hurled racial and homophobic slurs at him, beat him and looped a rope around his neck. Smollett is black and gay.

On Saturday, police announced that the "investigation had shifted" following interviews with the brothers. Police have requested another interview with Smollett.

Link

This is the last thing this inflamed society needed. What an a-hole.

If it’s true he set it up, yep.

If found innocent he’ll still be considered an a-hole by many, so he’s tainted for life.

Jussie Smollett is under arrest, in custody of Chicago police


“Empire” actor Jussie Smollett is under arrest and in the "custody of detectives" Thursday morning, Chicago police Chief Communications Officer Anthony Guglielmi said.

https://www.foxnews.com/entertainment/jussie-smollett-is-under-arrest-in-custody-of-chicago-police

I find it odd that they released the two brothers without charging them. Aren’t they just as guilty of staging this attack for money if their story is true? They didn’t turn themselves in and offer their side of the story until they were arrested at Ohare airport, probably trying to escape capture.

It doesn't concern me with what Jussie did, what concerns me is how the Left was already jumping on it, to use against fellow Americans in pushing their false agenda.

Lie upon Lie upon Lie.

White= Nazi
Trump Supporters= Racists
MAGA= Nazi slogan
Left= Victims

That's not a very big "if" at this point.

If he's found innocent, and the evidence seems contrary to that, then he deserves justice. But from appearance at this point, he's just an a-hole. Perhaps an a-hole that needs help. If he did set this up, why? Why the need for that type of attention? Why the need to further a divide which is harmful and unjust? I don't understand. Also, what a blow to his fans, family, and support staff if he did do this.

Probably cut a deal in exchange for testimony.

They absolutely rolled on him. $3,500 isn't worth going to prison.

All of it is a confirmed hoax, even the letter he sent to himself.

No doubt they nabbed them coming back in to ohare from Nigeria. Why would they come back if they were guilty of a hate crime? Still wondering why the fbi didn’t stop them from leaving the country in the first place.

But yeah JS is an a-hole.

anybody watched the press conference with the police chief?

Jussie smollet is an absolute scumbag, and i hope he loses his job on empire over this.

Yep. Jussie got sum splain’n

The old pendulum never stops dead middle. In my relatively short 64 years on this earth I've witnessed the extreme abuse and belittlement of the black population in America, only to see the pendulum swing to the extreme embrace of said population in affirmative action policies that no other people of color enjoy, and totally disadvantage Caucasians.

And I have seen the trend enough to know the pendulum will swing back. But that's the story of humanity.


Having said that, Jussie is a moron.

No one in this country is ever "found innocent". You are presumed innocent. This, of course, excludes conservatives in the eyes of the press.

Aside from testifying against Jessie's Mullett, there's not much illegal in their participation if all Mr. Mullett wanted to do was make a claim, get his fame, and move along. They probably didn't know that he would have taken it to the lengths he did and got the police involved as heavily as he did.

As for them being allowed on the plane, I think they left before the police were able to ID them.

Perhaps I should've phrased it "found to be", but that's picking at nits since most will know what I meant. Interesting that was your one takeaway. The bigger question is, is the man a narcissistic sociopath or a disturbed individual who is crying for help. If he started all of this as a negotiating ploy to increase his salary, I hope he does jail time. If he's sick, I hope he gets help.

I don't think he's either. 40 actually hit the nail on the head. This guy was simply trying to take advantage of a climate that starts off with the base premise that all Trump supporters are racists and homophobes, and that everyone has a right to be believed without evidence or verification.

We saw this to be true in the media and on the boards.

His biggest mistake was pushing the issue too far. Had Mr. Mullett simply made his story public, excused his refusal to cooperate with Chicago PD because they are a bunch of racist POS's that he doesn't feel comfortable will take him seriously (or let him walk out of a precint alive) he'd be hailed as a literal Martyr to this day.

smh.

most of us didn't believe the story from the jump. stop pushing fake news.

All Trump supporters hate black people (any POC really), gays, trans, are nazis and white supremacists is literally the Democratic platform right now. He was just echoing via hoax what he thought would gain him the most followers.

I wouldn't even call myself a "Trump Supporter" and just having an opposing opinion gets me lumped in. Honestly it's hard to blame the Dem lemmings. This is their leadership. When you're a hammer, everything is a nail.

Don't hate the player, hate the game.

You called BpG Vambo for starting this thread.....

yes, because BpG has been posting nonsense lately just like vambo. i'm not sure how you correlate that to what i just said but...i'm not surprised you don't get it.

I'm denying the fact you thought the original story was deemed a fake from the beginning. That's all. No biggie.

i didnt say anything that remotely implied i believe or didn't believe. i simply waited.

keep reaching, please. this is getting good. keep going.

No, that's it really....nothing more to add. I just don't believe you.

Fin.

thats fine.

That's his biggest mistake? Heh-heh, good one.

Just ignore him.

awww, look at the mini vambo. encouraging others to stay in their safe spaces. so cute.

My first and last post on this ....

There are idiots and scammers and extremists on all sides. Smollet - who I never heard of before this news item started - doesn't represent the "Left" or Dems any more than Christopher Hasson represents the Right or the GOP.

Smollet deserves everything coming his way as does Christopher Hasson ...

Maybe the story behind the story is how people reacted to it? But it doesn't bother me that politicians or people in the public eye took Smollet's story at face value ... Smollet faking the attack for publicity is such a messed up, screwed up dumb and sick thing to do that why would anyone assume it was fake? The saddest thing is the impact this may have on other real victims of abuse in the future.

As for Christopher Hasson - the story behind the story would be whether or not the POTUS is actively encouraging and enabling the loonies by his continued divisive and corrosive words .... is it coincidence that we now have 2 loonies who are targeting and looking to 'take out' the left politicians and the media that keeps reporting on Trump (factually) and highlighting all the issues surrounding him. Or is this more likely a reaction to Trumps ramped up rhetoric.

Welcome aboard Trooper

OCD and CHS liked your statement.

Did you guys apologize to BpG for this yet?

Thought not.

apologize for what? telling the truth?

Victim status, it's the social media gold card these days. Don't leave home without it.

The Liberal Progressive Democrat Agenda is to drive a wedge between people while portraying themselves as victims.

It's all about new ways to Hate your neighbors.

It worked well for the Democrats for 100 years with Jim Crow laws and such, so they are trying it again.

Shame!

How dumb do you have to be to write a check as payment to the 2 brothers for this hoax?

This Jussie Smollet needs mental help.

Just saw this one.

j/c:

I think the Chicago PD did a level headed job of breaking this case without getting sucked into the Liberal/Progressive Lies or the Propaganda Media bias.

Kudos to Chicago PD.

Well it looks like you just bought a crap load with this breaking News.

I agree. While what he did was stupid, divisive, etc... the real lesson here that we may never really learn is how quickly we jump on those things we really want to be true because they support our personal view of things...

If something comes out that supports the left, they jump on it while the right says, "Let's wait for all of the facts."

and

If something comes out that supports the right, they jump on it while the left says, "Let's wait for all of the facts."

The only real difference is that the left, because of age and demographics, is far more active on all social media except FB so things that support the left spread faster and broader...

If something comes out that supports the Right, I have to wait till I tune into FOX to hear about it.

If something comes out that supports the Left, It is plastered all over Main Stream Media for 24 hours or better. Then it also seems they all had a meeting about it as they tend to use the exact same wording in their reporting.

Maybe its just me. Not.

Well, it has been proven many times that 99.9% of the media is in the pocket of the democrat party. That's not a rumor wither, it is a fact.

Hey, Swish... the two Nigerians who assisted in Jussie Smolett's hoax have finally been identified:

So this story has taken a sad turn... As I understand it, even with all of the facts out, Fox has announced that Smollet has been the "consummate professional" on the set and will not be written out of the script for future episodes of "Empire"...

As a point of reference, Roseanne Barr, who I have no affection for at all, tweeted something racist and she was fired, her show was cancelled and her agent dropped her all in the course of 11 hours after the tweet.

Damn.

Life is unfair.

Nope...The investigator said they had them id’d and they knew they purchased round trip tickets, so they waited until they returned to nab them and question them two weeks later. How did they know for sure they’d return? They couldn’t be certain on that but they still let them out of the country. They could have ended the investigation two weeks earlier saving their valuable resources.

Rosanne admitted her mistake. Jussie maintains his innocence. Even a-holes like Jussie deserve due process. Not that anyone will believe him now but he is presumed innocent until proven guilty in a court of law right? Not once have I heard “Jussie allegedly committed this crime.” March 14th is his next day in court. Let’s see what else turns up before then.

Kinda like people on here with Judge Kavanaugh, right?

Sure hope the hang Smollett out to dry for this. he's an idiot

Gen-Z is looking promising. They tend to think for themselves a bit more and not be lemmings to either side.

Gen Z is Turning out to be more progressive than my generation

http://www.pewsocialtrends.org/2019/01/1...litical-issues/

Lol.

Whatabout?

The FBI spent as much or more time and money investigating Jussie and this incident than they did on investigating Kavanaugh on the attempted rape allegations. Notice the word allegations and the word allegedly aren’t being used with Jussie?

j/c

I'm not sure that's the figure of speech you want to use in this situation.

There was a very lovely piece by Charles Barkley on NBA TNT. I've been watching it for a few days. Its one of the funniest things I've seen in quite a while!

The guy deserves to be ripped. Wrong is wrong.

I love Charles Barkley. He is always hilarious, and he doesnt follow a crowd. He says what he wants to and doesnt give a crap if people like it or not.

He is my favorite sports commentator guy.

j/c:

I’ve been saying (not as eloquently) this for years, we have gotten so bad with what he is saying here that when white people even suggest what he is saying, it’s racist. Only when a black man comes to the same conclusion that it becomes compelling, which only speaks further to what he is saying.

Interesting times.

Well thought out and well said. The acting oppressed versus being oppressed issue is a very interesting phenomenon. You see it quite often concerning women - like the "Dream Crazier" commercial (who exactly is preventing these women from doing what they love?) - and in the dumbing and vilifying of men in the media and in particular the entertainment and advertising industries (anyone see the commercial for the new Budweiser?) . Practically every man in sitcoms is a moron, clown, or completely helpless without a woman.

Am I aware that there are still inequalities (particularly concerning pay)? Yes. Do I believe women still get harassed and sexually assaulted? Of course. But there is this tidal wave of culture that is "man hating", particularly "white man hating" within mainstream media and entertainment.

Frankly, I find it somewhat hurtful and extremely insulting, and at times it causes me to utter a silent and intolerant GFYS. And in the end, I'm not really sure what it is that the creators of this misguided tripe are trying to accomplish. The philosophy of tearing others down to build oneself up is stupidly unhelpful, as we've seen with Smollett.

Do I feel this is one of the most important issues facing society today? No, I don't. Not yet anyway. But it's there.

JMHO

I'm a white man and I say if you can't take the "white man hating" being used to point out the unbalanced and unfair things in our society that "white men" often take for granted, then you are not much of a man at all. Anyone who dislikes it can go cuddle up with your blanky and have a good cry.

That's cool. If you've read any of my posts you may know I don't really care what you say, but you're certainly entitled to enjoy your self-loathing. I just happen to believe there doesn't need to be any type of hating going on. If this type of approach is supposed to perpetuate some kind of rebalancing because life has been unfair, then it's a ridiculous notion. As I stated, putting one class down to uplift another doesn't work. (Kind of like you thinking your post makes you seem somehow enlightened, but doesn't really. See, I may think your heart is in the right place, but I'll likely dismiss your message as shallow and meaningless.) I'll tell you what does work though, good parenting, education, and tolerance.

Self-loathing? It's not self loathing to realize something you might be doing is hurting another. It's not self loathing to want to know what that thing might be and do something to change. It's not self loathing to care about others even when they are not 100% like us.

I don't think the perceived "white man hating" is hating at all. It's a way to get a point across by making you uncomfortable with facts. SCARY STUFF.

BUT I 100% AGREE WITH:

You are blind and self loathing, uncle Jussie.

I'm not doing anything to hurt anyone. And my simply being born a white man doesn't hurt anyone either. If you are hurting others for some reason (its doubtful it's happening simply because you are a white man, you should reflect on that), perhaps the messaging is good for you. And if that is the case, I hope your despicable behavior changes radically. And it's too bad it took that type of messaging for you to realize it. Just so you know, I'm never uncomfortable with facts. I'm am however uncomfortable with stupidity as this type of messaging perpetuates.

You seem to be upset. I'm not attacking you and did not mean to in my previous posts. I'm only stating how I feel about this line of thought.

You might not personally be doing anything wrong, and that's cool if you are not. But most of the 'white man hating' I've seen is not directed at any individual but at our society as a whole and is used to point out injustices like black men being jailed at a much higher rate than whites.

Until people speak up about these things we can't change them for the better. So yes, I don't see it as negative speech. I don't think 40 showing support for Trump is negative either, I don't have to like it, but it's his right to feel that way if he chooses. I don't even mind you saying that you think I'm stupid, despicable, radical, etc. I listen to reasonable feedback and try filter the ridiculous. From time to time I do change, nobody is perfect we all make mistakes and do things we later regret.

Hello.

Now this is what targeted hate looks like Cal.

Eve- The funny thing is that I barely know who Jussie is other than what little I saw in the news. So if that was meant to be hurtful in some way, you missed the target Eve. Your unwavering petty attacks since I said Kitchens first interview made him sound like he was either playing country dumb or a big dumb hick have been amusing. Even when I'm not talking to you, you pipe in with an attack like it's your job. Same thing Vambo used to do.

But even Perfect spirals out of control from time to time.

Which is it? This:



Or this:





Most of the hating I was talking about is perpetuated by the media for advertising or entertainment purposes. Cultural outrage over injustices is an entirely different thing. One that deserves attention, contemplation, discussion and resolution. The two shouldn't be confused but clearly are.



Again, we are not talking about the same thing. Discussion about injustice is good. Disparaging any class is not good. See the difference?



The you're not seeing it clearly.



I never said I think you're any of those things. I don't know you well enough to know. Perhaps read what I wrote again.



What's the saying? Evolve or die?



I absolutely agree.

According to leftists.

You can't recognize that both black men being jailed at a higher rate exists and white men being demeaned on a regular basis exists. It's one or the other and the latter makes you a racist.

Very interesting article Swish, thanks.



I did chuckle though at "Generation Z – diverse and on track to be the most well-educated generation yet." with all posts on here about our educational system being so poor.

But on the article itself. I have said for years and posted many times about this...
"When it comes to views on race, the two younger generations are more likely than older generations to say that blacks are treated less fairly than whites in the United States today. And they are much more likely than their elders to approve of NFL players kneeling during the national anthem as a sign of protest."

That the only REAL fix for racism and prejudice is time. Each Generation become more accepting of others and less dividing. But yet, here we all fight about our differences, perpetuating hate and discontent.

J/C


Are we all going to negate the fact that dude literally wrote a check for a fake crime?

It's actually a little endearing, before the check I just thought of him as a despicable human being, now, at least, there is a lot more "stupid idiot" in the mix.

And a true RACIST

You are so lost on this issue.

https://www.freep.com/story/news/local/michigan/2019/02/25/jackson-hate-crime-arson-joly/2978003002/

OCD is just mad, he cant do this anymore without looking like Jussie Smollet

Hate group count hits 20-year high amid rise in white supremacy, report says

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nati...ter/2918416002/

We really need to stop acting like it's not on the rise and doesn't exist.

But that's just the left wing media using facts and reports .... pffft.

It's going to get worse. This is just the beginning.

I certainly agree. When your leader uses division as key talking point, things only get worse.

Justify your paranoia.

The rest of us live in the real world.

What the hell are you talking about? I'm white. What would I have ti be paranoid about?

Are you trying to deny that the number of hate groups are at a 20 year high and on the rise?

It's not paranoia, there is a "one sided" element to it though. It's on the rise because both sides are doing it.

In just this one article, you can see why it's on the rise. One woman gets unhinged by a hat.... a plow driver covers anti-trumpers is slush.....Merica

How many white supremacists have you all met?

Legit ones. Burning crosses and wearing hoods.

Not the imaginary boogeyman kind in your head.

I have certainly been called plenty of hateful names in these threads and it ain't conservatives or whites always doing it.

Plenty of hate going on these days, no wonder the globe is warming.

Serious questions:

- Do you think Trump is divisive?
- Does Trump try to appeal across the full spectrum of the population of the USA or does he pander to his base?
- Does his base include some white supremacists and nationalists? (they don't support anyone else - let's be real)
- Do you think that Trump calling himself a Nationalist means he loves his country or do you think it's a way to appease and appeal to the White Supremacists?
- Do you think Trump attacks the media constantly when they report negatively on him? (I'll grant that there is too much negative spin from the left - but Obama dealt with the same schtick and didn't demean himself and the office like Trump does)

Given all that and assuming that you agree that he's divisive, appeals to his base that includes some WS .... do you really think his attitude and the culture he projects doesn't enable and encourage the racists ?

I don't know if that makes a dozen people more proactively racist - or if it's 100, a thousand or or a hundred thousand ... but there is going to be a direct correlation.

Feds: Coast Guard lieutenant compiled hit list of lawmakers

https://www.apnews.com/e919eb94af514cfc9a43982fc7e2e617

Florida Trump supporter charged in chilling mail-bomb plot

https://www.apnews.com/46514c3eb6fb474c9ac1df2c24b0acf5

I have a news flash for you you, Trump isnt doing a damn thing to you.

But you and your fellow paranoid alt left spend way more time spreading your hate around the internet than Trump ever could.

I have never even seen one in real life. I have never even heard of one as someone who "knows a guy". The biggest Trump fan I know is a first generation Chinese.

But just because I haven't seen a space station in person doesn't mean it doesn't exist.

So you are denying these 1000 groups exist and hate groups or on the rise or not?

I actually went to school with a few that grew up to be exactly as you descried. They do exist. The groups are increasing and their membership is growing. I guess you missed all of the film footage from Charlottesville?

The black nationalist movement is a reaction to centuries of institutionalized white supremacy in America. Black nationalists believe the answer to white racism is to form separate institutions — or even a separate nation — for black people. Most forms of black nationalism are strongly anti-white and anti-Semitic. Some religious versions assert that black people are the biblical "chosen people" of God.

https://www.splcenter.org/fighting-hate/extremist-files/ideology/black-nationalist

Yeah, that's the same thing as a Trump supporter sending pipe bombs. The same as a white supremacist running over a group of people with a car in Charlottesville and the same as an Ex- Coast Guard member having a huge hit list of democrats and journalists.

You go girl!

But how can it be???

According to the alt left, White Supremacists are everywhere, behind every corner, stalking black people to beat them up and lynch them. Waiting to do um, I have no idea, to illegals.

Hide your babies! The White Supremacists are coming!

But the rise in anti-immigrant sentiment had also created “an equal yet opposite reaction,” the Southern Poverty Law Center said. As the number of white supremacist groups rose, so did the number of radical black nationalist groups that espoused anti-white, anti-Semitic or anti-gay and anti-transgender views.

The center said the number of those groups had risen to 264 in 2018 from 233 in 2017, but it noted that the influence of black nationalism in mainstream politics was highly limited.

It did, however, point specifically to comments by the Nation of Islam leader Louis Farrakhan, who the center said echoed white supremacist myths of a looming white genocide in his rhetoric about President Trump, whom he has accused of “planning genocide” against African-Americans.

Mr. Farrakhan and the Nation of Islam have been connected to a continuing controversy surrounding the anti-Trump Women’s March organization, two of whose national leaders have been accused of sympathizing with Mr. Farrakhan and privately expressing anti-Semitic opinions.

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/02/20/us/hate-groups-rise.html

Yeah, the shooter at the synagogue in Pittsburgh was black. Oh no, wait, he wasn't. Hitler wasn't black either.

Pittsburgh synagogue gunman said he wanted all Jews to die, criminal complaint says

https://www.cnn.com/2018/10/28/us/pittsburgh-synagogue-shooting/index.html

Since nobody actually ever said that you're starting to sound a lot like trump.

"Eve said something I dont like. She must be Trump."

NEW BLACK PANTHER PARTY
The New Black Panther Party is a virulently racist and antisemitic organization whose leaders have encouraged violence against whites, Jews and law enforcement officers.

https://www.splcenter.org/fighting-hate/extremist-files/group/new-black-panther-party

It was the lie you told that made you sound like trump.

I didn't say he was doing something to me.

I said he was encouraging and enabling hate groups across America.

You might not think it's a big deal if it doesn't affect you personally. I disagree and think it is bad for the Nation.

Except he really isnt. He is just a blabbering idiot.

The vile behavior of left is what drives the alt right.

You're just too blind to see it.

So what's your point? Or don't you have one.

I'd hate to spend time countering your post for you to come back with your classic from yesterday of "I didn't express anything - I posted a link" .... I bet that's won you lots of debates!

My point is what Pit says all the time about everything...

BOTH SIDES DO IT

On that I disagree.

I think extremism on either side is bad. As I have posted on many occasions, there are idiots on both sides and using one, whether it's the guy from Empire or the Coast Guard who was just arrested, to try and paint the other side as tarnished like a "gotcha" is moronic.

I think the actions, speech, tweeting and enabling of the most powerful man on the planet - the POTUS - has a direct and significant impact on the hate groups in the USA. Whether he's a babbling buffoon or not.

You are right. Both sides do it.

So we shouldn't talk about it when it happens? We shouldn't discuss how the POTUS is impacting hate in the USA? Is THAT what you are saying?

HATE IS AN EQUAL OPPORTUNITY RACIST!

I'm beginning to think I am. I'm talking about injustices and everyone else is talking about Jussie. I don't really know who he is at all other than a clip I saw on the news about him faking an attack for attention by paying some guys off to jump him. Had pretty much ignored this thread until yesterday.

I agree with that. What can't be disputed is the extreme to which it's done.

I've given several examples.

The synagogue bombing in Pittsburgh. The former coast guard arrest who was plotting to kill several democrats and journalist. The Trump supporter sending all of those pipe bombs to Democrats. The man who ran over a crowd in Charlottesville.

You can surely talk about the rhetoric and hatred that runs in both directions. But when you start counting body bags you're going to fall short in making your point.

AS A NEW NARRATIVE TO DEFLECT ATTENTION AWAY FROM THE WAY TRUMP ENABLES THE HATE GROUPS AND WHITE SUPREMACISTS - YOUR NEW LITTLE MANTRA FAILS

Youre wonderîng why people are talking about Jussie Smollet on a thread about Jussie Smollet?

best post i have seen for some time. that was funny, glad i didn't have a mouthful of coffee

Yes, the left deflects attention away from their hatred all day every day by crying about Trump.

I see you just keep spouting more crap rather than address things like the synagogue bombing in Pittsburgh. The former coast guard arrest who was plotting to kill several democrats and journalist. The Trump supporter sending all of those pipe bombs to Democrats. The man who ran over a crowd in Charlottesville.

Yeah those things never happened and white supremacists don't exist.

Is it crying? Hating? or maybe even Derangement? Or a little bit of everything mixed together? . . . . Maybe they just care a lot and see a babbling buffoon of a criminal in office and don't want people to be so apathetic about it? Or maybe the right wing media has got you to pay so much attention to the extreme 2% on the fringe that you're telling yourself something that isn't reflective of the norm? OCD and others do NOT reflect the norm.

So a handful of people are evil. So what?

To make an analogy, that would be like blaming all muslims because some terrorists exist.

I dont read/watch any right wing media. I see the way you all spread hate everywhere on the internet and then try to annoint Trump as the antichrist.

You dont take into account how tired people get of the left's hateful BS. All it does is make people align against you. People who never cared before.

Thought the topic got derailed like many others. That's what I get for posting while I feel like crap. Fighting a head cold must have my thinker glitching.

I'm no Trump supporter, but I have seen no evidence of this. I do believe his presidency has resulted in divisiveness, but I have not seen Trump encourage or enable hate groups. If you have direct evidence of this, I would like to see it.

I do believe certain people and organizations have used this presidency to justify bad behavior and use it as de facto permissiveness to vilify groups or peoples they don't "like" or agree with. I don't know why, though I believe it's likely his stance on issues concerning immigration.

I also believe the underlying hate directed at various groups, by various groups and individuals has been seething for quite a while. The anonymity of the internet has helped embolden groups and individuals to spew and even act on their hate, as there is little or no consequence.

To a degree, we've all likely been guilty of it in some form or another. I know I have. And it's something I work on. There comes a point, at times, when trying to make a point, or argue an issue, the ego comes into play and passion for a belief causes us to lash out. Ironically, when this happens, the message is rarely, if ever heard. It is only through kindness and willingness to at least hear other points of view that we are able to effectively communicate. Often, when the time is taken to do that, logic is allowed to prevail.

As a nation, instead of growing more tolerant we've become less tolerant. It's also happening elsewhere around the world. Europe specifically. So it becomes the obligation of each individual to examine beliefs and reasonings to see where feelings of hatred and discord come from. Much of it is learned behavior, taught to us through example. I personally find extremism in any form to be harmful, but believe social, political, racial, sexual, or religious differences themselves are not justifiable reasons for hatred, mistrust, exclusion, or vilifying. Reasonableness must be applied whenever possible.

On a base level, we all know this. It's time we start practicing it as well, speaking out when we see behavior that is unacceptable. Not in a mean, hateful or destructive way, but in a loving, questioning, guiding way.

We're fortunate in our forums here in that most of us have had the pleasure of interacting with each other for many years. We have our beloved football team to bind us, finding common ground where we all gather as one. We also have our differences, but for the most part, mutual respect is the norm, and we're not afraid to call each other out on our bull$#!%. Sometimes kindly. Sometimes not.

Do I believe in a Utopian society where everyone gets along, and its all champagne and roses? Not yet. There are times when we must fight. When individuals, groups, organizations, or countries demand more than is their right, and revert to force to get it. Then, we must fight. But never over a difference of opinion, race, or life choice.

Bottom line, I have no answer for the hate, but I know the most effective weapons against it are love, education, and compassion. That can start with a single individual. What we must ask ourselves is, am I a perpetuator or a peacemaker?

JMHO

Well without even thinking about it for a second:

Trump would not denounce David Duke's endorsement of him for President. Trump - despite a mountain of evidence to show otherwise - claimed he did not know who David Duke is.

https://www.thedailybeast.com/david-duke-i-think-trump-knows-who-i-am

https://www.factcheck.org/2016/03/trumps-david-duke-amnesia/

And then at a Charlottesville Nationalist rally where someone drive into a crowd of protesters and killed one of them - Trump said there was good people on both sides and tried to appease the WS / Nationalists.

https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/arc...h-sides/537012/

I am certain there are others who can recall other issues. . . I also remember a Trump story about black employees at his casinos ... a quick google found this:

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2018...career-and-life

From that article:

Trump branched out from residential real estate into the casino business in the 1980s. Employees revealed a pattern of racism. In a tell-all book, former president of the Trump Plaza Casino John O’Donnell said Trump once told him: “Black guys counting my money! I hate it. The only kind of people I want counting my money are short guys that wear yarmulkes every day.”

Another former Trump employee told the New Yorker that black staff were hidden from Trump when he visited the casino with his wife. “When Donald and Ivana came to the casino, the bosses would order all the black people off the floor,” said Kip Brown.

I've always said I don't know if the guy is a racist or not ... what I do know is that he panders to the racists because they are part of his base. And that without doubt encourages them and enables them..... Does it affect me personally? No. But that doesn't mean I can't comment that I think it's bad for the country.

Pretty damning on the surface. I don't have time to dig into the articles right now, but I will later. Thanks for sharing!



My comment to you wasn't an indictment, I was sincerely looking for proof. And, I wasn't doubting your statement, just that I couldn't think of any examples I had seen.

No problem ... it was more in response to Eve saying earlier that the increase in hate shouldn't worry me if it doesn't affect me personally.

That's not what I said at all, but thanks for putting imaginary words in my mouth.

Well I was writing quickly ... apologies if I didn't relay the spirit of your early responses.

I really enjoyed reading this.

No, it's really not. Unless you feel that an increase in hate groups and their numbers is the same as saying this is the way all republicans are. Which isn't what anyone has said or implied.

When true evil is gaining momentum, it should be something all Americans consider a problem. When this is happening and your president doesn't or hasn't spoken out against it, it should be something all Americans consider a problem.

Everyone knows we have unstable people on both sides. When you have a have a man in power who calls the press "the enemy of the people", who calls the opposing party "radicals", you're helping push the buttons of the unstable. At some point people need to admit that words have consequences and realize that using rhetoric that spurs the unstable into action is a part of what we're seeing here.

Cal - as Clem pointed out and I didn't mention, that was a very good post and I agree with your sentiments. I only responded to the one item about whether there is any evidence to suggest Trump is enabling the rise of these hate groups.

I appreciate that, mgh. I do want to dig into your links. While I feel Trump's presidency has enabled and propagated divisiveness, the US isn't the only country with these types of problems, there are neo-Nazi, anti-LGBT, anti-immigrant, and anti-Muslim groups, even extremist men's rights groups throughout Europe and Russia. I don't think blame can be laid at the feet of Tump, (I personally think he's a bafoonish, self-serving clown whose only agenda is increasing his wealth and furthering his influence) though again, I believe his presidency has allowed this type of hate to flourish here in the US. But the problem has been growing for a while here at home and on a global scale, probably since the 70's.

Side note: I applaud law enforcement for keeping violent damage somewhat in check.

You can't blame Trump for them. You can blame him for the rhetoric he uses that emboldens them.

Honestly, Pit, I don't pay any attention to him, so I'm not educated at all in his rhetoric. But I do see the divisiveness his presidency has propagated. I keep thinking he'll be hauled out of the Whitehouse in handcuffs at any minute. My only question is, what's taking so long? I do however believe he hate problem we face reaches far beyond his influence.

First, it’s an unwritten rule to not indict a sitting president.

Second, the investigations are still ongoing.

Third, like anybody else should be held to the same standard, you’re innocent until proven guilty. So we’ll see what the investigations yield.

You are right - there are similar issues across Europe as well. To me there is a stark juxta-position of Brexit and Trump being elected on the back of disgruntled and disenfranchised voters feeling angst and frustration at a political system that doesn't seem to work for them. That is there and I don't know who is to "blame" if anyone .... in some ways I blame the voters themselves and believe you get the government you deserve - because most of the populace is ignorant and apathetic to politics and holding public officials accountable. . . . but I digress: Yes - Trump is not responsible for the hate. But his deeds and words have (imo) enabled and exasperated the issue in the USA.

Swish pretty much nailed it. It's protocol that a sitting president not be indicted. The right uses it as proof that Trump isn't guilty of anything. The fact is, just wait until after he's left office. That's when the crap will hit the fan.

The right will never call for him to leave. They've watched him lie, call for violence against the press and elected a man who is morally bankrupt. They're in too deep to stop now.

j/c:

Unwritten rules aren't rules. I realize the investigation is ongoing. I understand the standards of our justice system. What I'm not clear on is your point.

Shortly after he was elected, I was at a family gathering. I said at the time he may be the first president we see hauled from the Whitehouse in handcuffs. There is a laundry list of criminal behavior associated with him. Whether he will ever actually be indicted and arrested during his presidency, I have no idea. But I wouldn't shocked to see it happen. Impeachment is the more likely course of action, but there is a lot of foot dragging, so criminal investigation and arrest may be the only course of action. Protocol be damned.

Even Nixon wasn't indicted.

You stated you expect him to be hauled off in handcuffs, but wonder why it’s taking so long.

I answered that directly. That’s the point.

He was given a full, unconditional pardon. The reason he wasn't indicted.

I didn't say I expected him to be hauled off in handcuffs. I said I keep thinking he'll be hauled out of the Whitehouse in handcuffs at any minute. It's a subtle difference, I know, but a difference none the less. Frankly, I have no expectation of anything concerning the justice system, politics, or people in general.

Yet he wasn't indicted while he was in office. That's what you were asking, right? Why Trump hasn't been indicted while he's in office. Nixon wasn't pardoned until after he resigned.

Yes, that's correct, Nixon wasn't indicted while in office. And to be clear I'm not asking why Trump hasn't been. I'm saying anything is possible. Take this scenario: What if say, evidence was discovered that Trump is complicit in espionage, voter fraud, or pedophilia? Should he be arrested while in office? I think we both know the answer to that. Would he be? Who knows? I'm not sure what you guys are trying to say here.

Also, I forgot to point out, as we all know, innocent until prove guilty doesn't apply to arrests.

I most certainly think he should be under any of the circumstances you mentioned.

I'm saying every Republican under the sun claims a sitting president can not be indicted. I'm not an attorney so I don't know the answer. I'm saying there is much debate about whether it can be done or not. I'm saying that it was known that Nixon was involved in criminal activity as a sitting president and was not indicted while he was president.

I think it will depend on 2 things:

1. How egregious is the provable offense? - Hush money payments to mistresses probably won't get him impeached regardless of how cast iron the evidence. Proof that Trump is compromising the USA while either looking to profit or being compromised himself to a foreign power .... that would change the landscape regardless of precedent.

2. How iron clad and incontrovertible is the evidence? . . . if there is ANY wiggle room for Trump to deflect and confuse and I don't think it will matter.

Yeah, who knows? I think it would depend on the extent of the crimes, the evidence involved, and the amount of time left in office. If Federal prosecutors had enough evidence to take him to trial today on espionage charges, then I think they would march his ass out in handcuffs. However, if the extent of Muller's investigation only reveals evidence of paying off Stormy to keep quiet about their sexual relationship, then I doubt it would happen.

lol, I was basically just writing the same thing.

There are things within these articles that I don't like, and yes, it's possible he may be a racist. It's also highly likely groups like the Alt Right feel empowered under his presidency. But frankly, I don't see direct evidence of him "encouraging and enabling hate groups across America." If anything, he has spoken out against racism, the KKK and Neo-Nazis. Is it possible this stance is strictly political? Sure, but it's his official stance none-the-less.

As much as we (as a people) love to hate, taking fragments of information to form erroneous conclusions makes it all that much easier. You wrote about the ignorance and apathy of the populace. Part of that has to be laid at the feet of our soundbite society, and our own willingness to only hear what we want to hear, or bend what we think we see, hear, or read to fit a narrative we feel strongly about. Scroll up a few posts and you'll see that very thing occurred on a relatively minor issue. Far too often we rush to be heard with the unhealthy need to appear to be "right" regardless of the issue.

I agree people need to become better educated and more well informed. Particularly the later as you don't need a college degree to do a deep dive into both sides of any particular issue. However many people are too lazy or don't want to be inconvenienced in that way. I believe we ended up where we are through that type of knee-jerk, soundbite politics. The very thing that allowed us to end up with candidates like Hillary Clinton and Donald Trump in the first place.

JMHO

I think the apathy of the public is directly proven by the fact only 58% of eligible voters voted in 2016. When 42% of eligible voters refuse to vote, I think that speaks volumes of apathy. Whether that apathy comes from simply not caring or the lack of what they see as candidates fit for office I won't speculate on.

So what you wrote is correct in as much as Trump seems to eventually say the 'right' thing - or close to it.

But - to me that initial appeasement and refusing to reject and speak out against the people who have close ties to well known hate groups is what counts most. That sound bite - that news story reaches the ears of those groups and does the enabling. Disavowing them later is too late - the damage is done and in my view it is deliberate. It's far from the worst I see in Trump - but when discussing this topic it's how I see it.

I am certainly not going to argue or attempt to dissuade you from your opinion on the matter, especially in light of the fact that I think it's likely he's a racist. I also think it's possible he's a narcissist, a misogynist, a homophobe, a rapist, and a pedophile. But those are just my thoughts on the matter based on what I've read and seen concerning the man, I have no proof. Would it surprise me to find out he has strong affiliations with white supremacists groups, or is a Russian asset. Nope.

There's been a continual dumbing of, and manipulation of, the populace in general since the advent of television, further propagated by the lessening of educational standards. News is merely infotainment (most of it irrelevant to our daily lives), and entertainment is pablum for the intellect. The result of which is that we idolize those who attain "entertainment" status. That's how a movie star and a reality TV drone get elected president, in my view. At least Regan governed a state. Trump has absolutely no qualifications other than being a failed businessman and a prime time face. If Karl Marx were alive today, he might be quoted as saying, "Entertainment and technology are the opiates of the masses."

You forgot to mention over 2 years experience as President of the United States of America and 2 years experience as Commander in Chief of the Armed Forces of the United States of America.

Your name comes up in the dictionary when you look up the word obtuse.

Ha! Good one. Were you leaning on that when you voted for him?

Maybe we can turn congress and the White House into a reality show and vote people out on a weekly basis.

lol, I love that idea. With a live action popularity meter.

You need to watch the "Majority Rule" episode, season 1 of The Orville.

That was a good episode, even as twisted as it was.

Well, we do have an actual reality star leading the cast and at the current turnover rate in the White House, that weekly basis doesn't have much further to go to reach that pace.

And since he has sucked at both continuously and not learned a damn thing, he still basically has ZERO EXPERIENCE.

The problem with most of you claiming the rise in hate groups is a result of Trump being president is that you completely leave out the responsibility that Obama had as well.

When you claim that you are a uniter, then you spend 8 years calling half the country uneducated racists through thinly veiled comments and not denouncing people that do the same, that is dividing.

When good people are sick and tired of being called uneducated racists, that is how you end up Trump as president.

I didn't vote for Trump as president, as I don't think he morally lives up the standard of a president. I'm just saying why he won.

Fact is though, if Obama actually did a good job as president, we wouldn't have Trump. That is why Obama is also a failed president, in my eyes.

Until Democrats learn that calling everyone racist is not the way combat the true hate out there (and trust me, there is), this is going to be a problem.

the only responsibility obama had in hate crimes is that he was the first black president in our country.

you're blaming obama for him being born black as the reason hate crimes went up. remember all the white people marching in the streets claiming that obama was a foreign born kenyan muslim?

yea, somehow thats obama's fault, ya know, cause he was born a minority. and yet you don't say a word to the guy currently sitting in the oval who launched his campaign based on the fact that obama is a foreign born muslim.

pathetic.

I see you didn't read my post, as this part is factually incorrect. So, I will not be responding to your self-contradicting post.

Oh I read your post. You just didn’t say anything worth much. Just vague comments like everyone else, with little substance.

Obama wasn't born black. He is a hybrid.

i agree. but he was certainly treated as all black by the tea party cult.

they certainly wasn't marching in the streets yelling for him to go back to europe, thats for sure.

And the tea party is actually a faction of Republicans. Not all Republicans, no democrats and no Independent voters. Whitey not all bad.

yea, except it wasn't close to just being the tea party.

Yeah, well that's your accusation. Just like with you, sometimes the squeaky wheel is the one that gets heard. The other three wheels don't get that kind of press because they aren't making all that noise.

Probably because they’re flat and just as worthless. The other 3 wheels on the conservative clown car certainly didn’t do much to defend the president against those racist remarks. That’s for damn sure. They just let it happen, allowing it to completely take over their ideology/party.

And now we have the ring leader of the birther movement sitting in the oval.

Yea, the other 3 wheels are just as useles.

I notice you never give credit to the millions of white people it took to get Obama elected or the millions of white people who stood up for ending slavery and the approximately 360,000 Union soldiers who died to accomplish that.

I guess their wheels didn't squeak loud enough for you either.

I’ve been on record multiple times giving them credit. You’re fake news now.

Pit = trump.

Swish=40

WOW! Somebody actually pays a compliment to a fellow poster for a change!

Pit = vambo

Another compliment for Pit!!

In an alternate universe? Sure.

Just because I'm not some angry man who goes around threatening to throw a tantrum like a teen age white girl at the mall isn't a bad thing.

The lack of acting out the whole, " I do what I want!" and "I get what I want!" isn't a negative thing. Then we have the infamous....



.... for all of those that think they can act the fool in public displays with no consequences.

Odd cause she’s now worth more than any of us on this board.

Quite the example you chose.

Sometimes being worth something means more than money.

Not in America it doesn’t.

Where it helps is to not lump everyone who feels differently than me as the same. It helps me not jump to conclusion about everyone's motives.

Yes, there are those that fall into the category of being extremists. But that's a road that travels both ways. I don't feel everyone who disagrees with me is my enemy. I don't see politics as an all or nothing game.

It keeps me grounded to the point I understand that asking for some extreme swing to the left will only help Trump get re-elected and not lead to the change that some seem to use the prime example of, "I want it all and I want it now!" That's not a winning strategy and will only backfire.

It helps me to understand that most Americans are moderate and Independent voters that aren't going to support uber radical ideas and policies. I think Obama understood all of that. I'm not so sure that this newer crop of liberals do.

maybe they don't.

another possibility: maybe they don't have to.

We're going to find out. And I'd be willing to make a wager it doesn't end well.

worked for conservatives. they didn't care about independents and got everything they wanted. can't blame liberals for believing the same thing can happen. worked in the midterms.

If liberals start believing the same thing Trump does, then we're all going to hell.

Apathy got Trump elected. No candidate worth a damn was running. Running on hard left wing policies will cause more people to vote for Trump, not less.

Like I said, it looks like we will find out. And like I said, if the candidate they nominate are far left enough, I'm willing to put my money where my mouth is.

Alienating middle America cost the Dems the last election. At some point you would think they would learn from experience.

no offense but we heard that same useless rhetoric during the election, and the far right got their guy and the complete control of government. one of the biggest problems with hillary is that she didn't go left enough.

we have completely different perspectives on this. the difference is that i have a 2016 and 2018 election as evidence to back up what i believe.

I think you're denying the evidence from 2016. The Dems lost states like Ohio, Pennsylvania, Michigan, Wisconsin and Iowa. Congressional seats are won by district, not by state. A far left platform will only further alienate the mid west and cost the presidency in 2018.

The Dems didn't lose the mid west because they "weren't liberal enough".

While you point out 2018, you seem to neglect the fact that the GOP actually increased their numbers in the senate.

j/c

It's going to be interesting to see where the country is at.

I agree that I don't think the country wants far left policies - and I think the reason Trump won without caring about the independents had more to do with Hilary than anything else. . . In my opinion politics is broken because of the division and alienation - and extreme left or xtreme right won't fix that. Someone centerist that can reach across the aisle and get things accomplished even if it means compromise (especially if it means compromise) is what is needed.

I do think there is a wave of young voters who are more idealist and much further left ... but i don't think it's their time yet. They are important and they are the future, but let's mend the broken system see more bipartisan effort not less.

I agree with a lot of this, however I do not see a "centrist" winning the presidency. Not that I would mind a centrist, but today's political environment will not allow it. Especially on the Democrat side. It seems there is no room for a centrist to be included in their platform. Check out the front runners for their 2020 nomination. The Republicans have a little leeway, but not much, but more so than Dems.

the dems lost the generals because hillary wasn't liberal enough. part of the many reasons as to why.

everyone knew the GOP was gonna have the house and senate in 2016. but the far right got trump elected, and the far right have the GOP by the balls.

the far right IGNORE you, the independent, and still got everything they wanted.

ill repeat that again.

the far right IGNORE you, the independent, and still got everything they wanted.

the GOP lost a ton of elections in 2018, in part because some werent Trumpish enough.

2018 saw a wave of progressive liberals winning house elections. and now that movement has only continued, to the point where if it were sanders vs Trump right now, sanders would win.

i've even come around to the thought that sanders would've probably won in 2016, although im still very much skeptical of that.

again, i have evidence, you have feelings.

Pit = Newt Gingrich

No way ever Sanders wins the presidency. Independents will never vote for him. Actually what American would vote for him?

He would get slaughtered in a presidential election.

same thing was said about Trump. yall really need to learn to stop talking about future elections in absolutes.

Here's what you're advocating even though you aren't even aware of it. You're advocating winning states like California, New York and Washington by even greater margins is going to hand you a presidential election. Well it's not. Winning the states you already win will accomplish nothing.

The left uses polling numbers that say the majority of Americans support X, Y and Z. What they fail to address is that the majority has already lost two presidential elections in the last two decades. What's actually important is where do these majorities live.

You're going to ignore the mid west just like you did last time because you, "want everything you want and you want it now!". It's the product of your generation. And the results will be the same as last time.

The sad part is we'll all pay for such a shallow and ill conceived plan.

The right and the left ignore me. You can quit trying to pretend that it only works one way.

a dem just won a state like kansas.

just stop. i have evidence, you have feelings.

So the fact you lost 2016 in all those mid western states isn't evidence? Alrighty then.

And was the candidate in Kansas calling for reparations as a part of their platform? I bet not.

she wasn't a presidential candidate

Pit = alex jones

And that's yet another place where you fail. I'm more likely to vote in your direction. I'm someone who agrees with you more often than I disagree with you.

But you seem to try your best to turn someone who usually agrees with you into your enemy by comparing them to conservatives and those who are extreme on the other side. It's what happens when "you want it all and want it now" and refuse to have an honest debate with someone who disagrees with you.

You're well on your way to giving the next election away so you go on with your bad self.

its easy not to fail when you spend all day fence riding. something i have no experience in.

you can just whine about elections, not bother showing up, then whine about the people who made the decision for you.

if i give the election away, at least it will be to people who actually vote. cant give something to someone who doesn't show up when it matters most.

Pit = let down

See, you are too busy trying to attack those who usually agree with you. That's not how to win anything. Don't blame me the best you could do was Hillary. If you voted for her, don't blame me for that either.

I don't take voting lightly. I don't support people that aren't worthy of the office of president. If you do it's not my fault. Keep running off the people who could help you win the election. That's winning strategy.



swish= shooting self in foot as usual

help win what? you already proved you're unreliable. you didnt help win anything in 2016, didnt help in 2018, and wont help in 2020.

stay in the basement with the women and children while real men go solve issues.

Oh I voted in 2016. Just not for either of the fools running for president.

If by unreliable you mean I refuse to sell my soul to a political party, you're right. If you mean I'm unreliable in standing for what I believe in, you're wrong. I'm not some blind follower that's for sure.

i dont mean anything of that. i just mean unreliable overall.

if you dont show up to vote, thats fine. just stop being a snowflake and acting like some random poster will keep you from voting. that crap is weak, and reminds me of those losers who hate women cause they dont want to date them.

The dems could put up Mr. Potato Head and I'd vote for him to be rid of Trump and company. I think about 65% of the country feels the same. At this point the election is a higher priority than impeachment IMHO.

The whole thing is quite odd isn't it? People think selling their soul to a political party is some kind of attribute. Some think supporting a candidate unworthy of the office is admirable.

I think that's why we usually have a pretty good back and forth. We don't always agree on the issues but at some point, if someone is willing to have a healthy debate, that's what you have, a healthy debate. Not attack everyone that doesn't see it your way 100% of the time.

With some people you can accomplish that. With others not so much. But the lack of it is what's wrong with this country and we can see the obvious signs of it from both sides.

Well, Bernie is running again.

Oh you won't keep me from voting. I'm not the snowflake that attacks the same people that agree with me at least 80% of the time because they refuse to walk lockstep in line with everything I believe in some social media tantrum.

I voted in 2016. Just not for the lame candidates both parties nominated for president. And what people remind me of? When someone turns into a blind sheep that will sell his soul for anyone that a party nominates, they're letting other people tell them what they believe and not standing for what they believe.

Oh, and I'm married. So there's that.......

Funny. Anybody who can find time to disparage Bernie while condoning Trump's BS is the bigger joke all day every day.

It's full on cult behavior. There is no other way to explain "Agree with everything I say or you're out".

Excellent!
More votes for Trump.

I don't condone much of what Trump does, and I'm on record here calling him an arrogant pompous ass or something to that effect. He's a liar and a cheat. I don't constantly spew the pure hatred that you do, and I didn't for Bernie and Obama, either. I'm not thrilled with the alternatives, and they're just as easy to make fun of. I'm not going to support frick to spite frack.

Very telling of you. Thanks.

I'm 1000% cool with that. I will never have to live with the shame of knowing I supported Trump.

Good to know, or maybe I already knew and forgot that. Been fighting a rough cold and my thinker is hit and miss. But you still made a joke at Bernies/my expense about my anti trump feelings, so in that tiny instance... You were Trumpian.

I often disagree with and make fun of both sides and I wouldn't vote for Trump if someone tried to pay me.

I bet if there was an NDA, worth enough, you would.

No. I have things I'm willing to sell but my vote isn't one of them.

you heard it here first.

Pit is willing to sell some ass but not his vote

Pit = stormy daniels.

Only I never said that Donald.

Would you sell some ass for $72 million?

Whose ass would I be selling?

Yours I guess based on what Swish was saying? It might not be worth that ... but would you?

I just redid the math ... it'd be $360 million...

No. I have no use for millions of dollars. I'm past the point in my life that I think things equal happiness.

swish seems to be the one so impressed with fancy cars and property. Maybe you should ask him?

72 mill? sold.

Swish= Stormy Daniels

swish = melania trump

You need to make a quick check. You sir are no Melania Trump.

He does resemble Michelle tho.

Your eyesight must be so bad I'm not sure how you have the ability to type.

Well .... the comments about selling arse made me think of a famous story about Churchill being at a socialite diner event and sitting next to an attractive lady and asking her if she would sleep with him for 5 million pounds (I thought it was 1 million).

That would have been around 1940. A million pounds from 1940 would be worth about 55 million today. Exchange it at about 1.3 US$ to the GBP and you get $72M ... multiply that by 5 and you get to $360M. Hence the line of questioning. Maybe I shoulda qualified the question with selling arse to a member of the opposite sex .... The story is pretty funny given the times. Wouldn't work in today's society one would think.

https://www.goodreads.com/quotes/300099-churchill-madam-would-you-sleep-with-me-for-five-million

yea but you dont have standards anyway so i can be whatever i want.

You can wear whatever you want but you're still no Melania Trump. Clothes can't hide that.

i agree. im not a mail order bride.

And that's just the beginning.

and yet youll still cough up the dough

Well you make the worst bread I've ever eaten!

but you ate it though

You need to make up your mind whether I ate the bread or coughed it up. You're traveling in circles now.

who knows. maybe you did both.

Nah. You used two different grains. I don't eat hybrid bread.

thats breadist.

I gotta hand it to you. that was pretty good right there.

Cheap date? Call Swish BR549

Beer goggles. I wonder how many times he left the bar with a 2? He left 2016 with a dog.

j/c:

'Empire' actor Jussie Smollett hit with 16 count felony indictment by grand jury

https://www.yahoo.com/gma/empire-actor-j...topstories.html

Unlike Manafort, being black and gay on top of stupid, he'll get 10-20.

Suspended maybe. I'd be surprised if he serves a year. The black and gay is going to help rather than hurt.

Shouldn't matter- in a sane world.
An American citizen did this dishonest thing.

Whatever the consequence, he should be held to account. I'm unqualified to judge what proper punishment should be, but suspended sentence is insufficient, afaic.

I agree, it shouldn't matter....but I have a hunch that he's going to get off light.

You may be right.

No doubt, the verdict will spawn opinion and outrage from a buttload of different angles, no matter the decision. That's how we live, nowadays.

Personally, I think he should bear exactly what the law prescribes for something like this. Straight-up, by-the-book would be clean and appropriate.

'IDPol' is the only reason this case could be muddied, and I hope that it doesn't get decided as such.

What this stupid young man did wasn't just foolish and ill-advised. It was totally wrong-headed and potentially dangerous/incendiary. That in itself shouldn't be weighted to increase his penalty, but it most certainly should be taken into account if any measure of 'lenience' is being considered.

This dude deserves exactly what The Book says he should get.

Remember this: http://hrld.us/2FJOnvj

Amen sir, amen.