Bombshell: Pfizer Exec admits COVID vaccine never tested on preventing transmissions October 11, 2022 Mario Lotmore
BRUSSELS—During a hearing today on the European Union’s COVID-19 response, Pfizer’s president of international developed markets, Janine Small, admitted that its vaccine had never been tested before its release to the general public on its ability to prevent the transmission of COVID when asked by Dutch politician and a current Member of the European Parliament (MEP) Robert “Rob” Roos.
“Regarding the question around did we know about stopping immunization before it entered the market…No.,” Small replied with a smirk when asked by Roos if the Pfizer’ COVID vaccine was ever tested to stop the transmission of the virus before it entered the market.
She continued, “We have to really move at the speed of science to really understand what is taking place in the market.”
It was not clear from the questioning of Ms. Small if she were referring to the Pfizer BioNTech (BNT162b2) vaccine which is authorized under Emergency Use Authorization or Comirnaty which is the FDA-approved vaccine. Under an Emergency Use Authorization, vaccines cannot be mandated.
According to the August 2022 article, The Pfizer BioNTech (BNT162b2) COVID-19 vaccine: What you need to know, it states that there “is modest vaccine impact on transmission” to prevent COVID infection.
In response to the COVID-19 pandemic, the EU implemented a wide range of health policies with its EU Vaccines Strategy and initiatives, one being EU Digital COVID Certificates which exempted persons from “free movement” restrictions. The EU implemented “free movement” restrictions to slow down the spread of coronavirus and protect the health and well-being of all Europeans.
EU Parliamentarian Roos, exposed an alleged misinformation campaign by Pfizer with the release of his video tweet today. In it he called the actions “criminal”, “scandalous” and “a cheap lie.”
Below is a transcript of Roos’ Twitter post:
“If you don’t get vaccinated, you’re antisocial. This is what the Dutch prime minister and health minister told us. You don’t get vaccinated just for yourself, but also for others. You do it for all of society, that’s what they said. Today, this turned out to be complete nonsense.
“In a COVID hearing in the European Parliament, one of the Pfizer directors just admitted to me at the time of introduction, the vaccine had never been tested on stopping the transmission of the virus.
“This removes the entire legal basis for the COVID Passport. The COVID passport that led to massive institutional discrimination as people lost access to essential parts of society. I find this to be shocking, even criminal.”
“This is scandalous. Millions of people worldwide felt forced to get vaccinated because of the myth that ‘you do it for others.’ Now this turned out to be a cheap lie.
People feeling forced to get vaccinated because of a myth that you're doing it for others... and shamed if you didn't for the same reason.
Fauci: "The vaccine will stop COVID in it's tracks."
Biden: "You're not going to get COVID if you have these vaccinations."
Not only were these statements "not provable"... the possibility of them being fact was never even examined beforehand!
Discrimination. People losing livelihoods. Vaccine passports. Cancel culture running rampant. People being branded as conspiracy theorists, having their social media accounts suspended or cancelled -- for even uttering a word of caution? For asking questions? Any question whatsoever had you branded as a "science denier".
What a sham.
My favorite part...
"Was the COVID Pfizer vaccine tested on stopping the transmission of the virus before it entered the market?"
"No (laughs) We had to really move at the speed of science to really understand what was taking place in the market."...
The guy got picked because he enthusiastically pushed DeSatis' nutjob ideas and his handling of covid. He's state-level, Ronny Jackson. And his comments, ideas, and study go against the grain of mainstream nedicine. In other words, he's one of those.
Yet they had millions of vaccines administered soon after it was released to base findings on.
Cool story, but one that only serves to endorse my statements.
Why did they state as FACT something that had no way of yet being a FACT, under the guise of #science? And then, when the "millions of vaccines administered" offered no evidence that it stopped the spread; why were lies still being perpetuated as FACT?
Millions who were cancelled, suspended, blacklisted, fired, denied access, and blamed for a pandemic would love to know.
You do realize that the less people who contract Covid the less people there are to spread Covid, correct? So by the very fact that Covid helps prevent people from getting Covid, which means there are less people spreading Covid, the cases of Covid will be less.
Then sell that TRUTH instead of perpetuating an endless web of lies.
I also like your little Freudian slip... "So by the very fact that Covid helps prevent people from getting Covid" was also ignored, shelved, and cancelled; as natural immunity was written off as, get this, "denying science". Those FACTS were being reported all over the globe. They were swept under the rug, and the info sequestered by big tech and mainstream media in our country.
I'll tell you what seems legit. Not trying to use every source you can find to undermine the vaccines when even you admit that having less people with Covid actually accomplishes its intended purpose. You deniers never stop with trying to promote conduct that kill people.
Justin Bieber postpones the remainder of his Justice World Tour until 2023... after cancelling shows to prioritize his health after battling facial paralysis
So, to tell the whole story, it also said it was not peer reviewed and some asserted major statistical flaws. It also narrowed it to a 28 day window after receiving the jab, and per the article, "One of the main problems is that it does not weed out people who tested positive for Covid — which itself can cause heart inflammation and other issues."
Also:
Dr Monica Gandhi, an expert in medicine at the University of California, San Francisco, told DailyMail.com today that the analysis had several 'flaws'.
'I do not think this study should be used to set policy on the mRNA vaccines in younger males,' she said.
'It has some methodological flaws including a small sample size, no described change in overall mortality and a failure to account for Covid-related mortality, a control group that was biased and a failure to look at the long-term benefits of the vaccine to younger males.'
I'd like to participate more in this thread, FATE, because I think an intelligent conversation maybe originally could have taken place, but now I think it's fallen victim to the Alex Jones crowd.
I don't recall them claiming the vaccine would stop transmission, only that it would reduce the effects if one were to test positive. I recall them saying it won't even stop you from contracting the virus.
I don't recall them claiming the vaccine would stop transmission, only that it would reduce the effects if one were to test positive. I recall them saying it won't even stop you from contracting the virus.
SSSHH they are on a roll wanting to kill us old sick folks.
Rachel Schraer @rachelschraer A viral tweet is claiming to give bombshell news (🚨) that Pfizer is "admitting" they never tested whether the vaccine prevented transmission and therefore the concept of "get vaccinated for others" was a lie - this is wrong on basically every count. So, some facts. 11:58 AM · Oct 12, 2022
Rachel Schraer @rachelschraer · Oct 12 Replying to @rachelschraer 1. The vaccines were tested for whether they reduced people's chances of catching Covid - they seemed to, giving less chance of the virus being passed on. But they didn't look specifically at whether they stopped already infected people passing the virus on (transmission)
Rachel Schraer @rachelschraer
Oct 12 By the way, neither Pfizer nor health agencies claimed they had. This Nature article gives a good flavour of the discussions around the time https://nature.com/articles/d41586-021-00450-z… So...
Rachel Schraer @rachelschraer · Oct 12 2. When the vaccines first became available, public health messaging was clear - we don't know whether they stop transmission, & people should continue keeping preventative measures. Here's the FDA - https://fda.gov/news-events/press-announcements/fda-takes-key-action-fight-against-covid-19-issuing-emergency-use-authorization-first-covid-19… here's the UK's DHSC - https://nhsbsa.nhs.uk/sites/default/files/2021-06/3%20CLINICAL%20SOP%20LFD%20PHARMACY%20COLLECT%20_%20Final%20%281%29.docx…
Rachel Schraer @rachelschraer · Oct 12 3. Over time, stronger evidence *did* emerge they reduced transmission - of the variant at the time (this was before Delta). I wrote in March 2021 about how authorities were in fact being very cautious about confirming this visiting grandparents through window bbc.co.uk Covid jab probably does protect those around you Out-of-date information may be deterring people from being vaccinated.
Rachel Schraer @rachelschraer · Oct 12 4. Then, new variants began to change the equation. The vaccines were less good at preventing transmission of Delta and even less good at preventing Omicron. This saw spikes in infections around the world
Rachel Schraer @rachelschraer · Oct 12 side-note: That *doesn't* mean they don't reduce transmission from Omicron at all - this is really tricky to disentangle from waning immunity and rising contacts. Some more info here ukhsa.blog.gov.uk How well do vaccines protect against Omicron? What the data shows *Data presented in this blog is accurate as of Thursday, February 10, but is subject to change over time. For the latest data on vaccine effectiveness, read the UKHSA’s Vaccine Surveillance Reports,...
Rachel Schraer @rachelschraer · Oct 12 5. In the UK at least, soon after it became clear vaccinated people could now pass on the virus at similar rates to unvaccinated people, vaccine passports were quickly all but dropped. That's not to say there aren't valid discussions about...
Rachel Schraer @rachelschraer · Oct 12 ... whether they were the right policy in the first place (I wrote about some of the concerns here https://bbc.co.uk/news/health-56125142… ) - but let's get the basic facts straight. Was the idea your vaccine protects others based on a lie?
I don't recall them claiming the vaccine would stop transmission, only that it would reduce the effects if one were to test positive. I recall them saying it won't even stop you from contracting the virus.
SSSHH they are on a roll wanting to kill us old sick folks.
The only old sick people left after Trump's covid disinformation campaign are too smart to fall for this crap. Well, most anyway. I'm surprised Dems haven't been blamed for all the conservative souls who didn't make it. With all the lies over there, we thought that one was coming for sure.
ICAN Wins Lawsuit Forcing CDC to Turn Over V-SAFE Covid Vaccine Injury Data – Shows 7.7% Seek Medical Care After Vaccination and 25% Have Serious Side Effects
Wow. Even considering the minuscule number of deaths in these right-wing fear-mongering bias-confirming articles, you are still better off being fully vaccinated than not period.
After seeing these links, will you and other GOPers warn people not to wipe their asses? Will you continue wiping yours? Will you protest ass-wiping? Will GOPers legislate against forced wiping?
If you think that's ridiculous, now you get it. This is how stupid anti-vaxxers sound to me.
Nice investigating 3rd, unlike the rest of those in this forum.
What I find interesting is these drug companies can't even get the flu vaccine right half the time........yet, with a brand new virus, they "are able" to figure it out in months? Only until the next variant comes out, then a month later they have a new vaccine, repeat ad nauseum.
I DID get a flu shot today, by the way. But we are all being told, daily, that the new strains of covid are more deadly, and you need more vaccines that "we've come out with in the last few weeks'
And the death count from covid? Stupid. Why is the u.s. so, so much higher than about any other country in the world? Oh.....money. Put fear in people, prop up the death numbers..........bingo. You win the lottery.
Reality denier????? Really? Even at the health department today - no masks. No nothing. covid deaths have been over reported. Who wins by creating pandemics? Oh, pharm.
How can pharm companies come up with vaccines for all the new variants, every couple of months? Oh, they can't.
Sure, the pandemic was all fake. I bet the families of over a million dead might disagree. I can't believe we are even having this conversation.
Now, I will agree that the elite took and are still taking advantage of the pandemic to make huge profits, but that doesn't mean the risks of covid were not real or that it wasn't that bad. And sure, Big Pharma made profits and might even be trying to make the risk bigger than they are... But with real deaths as the best system of measuring truthfulness during the pandemic, I'll stick to believing the science on this one. It's Russian roulette to ignore it, plain and simple. I just got the new vaccine this week. Shot 5, all free to me! And here I am, me and my bad heart and other comorbidities, still kicking. Meanwhile, I personally know of at least half a dozen deaths that would never have happened if this had not been politicized. So, I find it shameful to see anyone engaging in yet more conspiracy theories about bad shots. And that is exactly what this discussion was before I commented.
Here's the problem: the "science" changes weekly. Wear masks......oh, terrible new variant coming....oh, terrible new variant here..........wear masks, get the vaccine............oh, damn, the vaccine doesn't work, but it helps..........all the deaths (you know, like the 94 year old that was driving, had an accident that killed him? But, tests showed his almost decapitated body tested positive for covid, so, 'covid death'. Kinda like the last time I had covid. And my daughter had covid. No signs or symptoms - just "covid".
Trust the brand new 'science'. Those people are counting on it for their existence.
A brand new threat killing folks by the scores and a virus that is constantly mutating. The science is what it is, the scientists are just trying to keep/catch up. But if we had started out with decades of research on covid-19, it would never have reached pandemic status now, would it? At the end of the day there are really only two choices, either believe all the crap idiots put online, or trust the folks who have dedicated their lives to the science. I'll go with the intelligent, educated, dedicated, and literate option.
Is the "brand new threat" killing people by the scores? Or is it sick people dying?
Are the numbers inflated, or does covid just hate the USA?
Science is ever changing - so what is there to make me feel different about covid? It's flu. You know, flu that has been around since forever, and will continue to be around forever. I've had covid twice - that I know of. So has my daughter. Wife - get this - lives with me, and because of covid, she's lived with not only me having it, but our daughter having it - twice. Wife has never had it.
Trust science. Science has told us the earth has warmed and cooled over the millenia. But...............even before we started burning fossil fuels, the earth warmed and cooled, but now it's the fault of the U.S.A.?
Remember 10 years ago or so, or even 2 years ago, we were told we just had months to change things? Uh, yeah, the u.s. is some 330 million out of 7 plus billion on this planet. But, WE need to change, so the rest of the world doesn't?
I know you are a violent person, what with your time spent in a mexican prison, your posts on here, etc........but what are you trying to say with this post?
We fail to communicate, nothing more arch. But hey, thanks for the effort to paint me in that light. You must be doing research and keeping notes. Get a life. Stalker.
You're trying to explain facts to a group who refuse to listen to them. They search for conspiracies at every corner and listen to people who further them and espouse them. Stop wasting your time. They look for what they want to hear and believe it when they find it.
Yep you would have gone with the intelligent educated people every time, and you would have been wrong time after time. I get the feeling you have not realized it yet.
That's a shame! Those people don't deserve those jobs.
It is sad how much you hate the working man.
He hates a lot. Gun owners, unless some one he likes gets shot............then he'll go shoot the shooter. According to him. He also hates republicans, and everything they stand for....unless he likes it. Hatred filled bigots don't matter to me.
That danged constitution gets in your way every time doesn’t it. Btw, do you know how many people who had declined the vaccine had already had the virus and had a much more effective natural immunity. No you do not. And yet even tho you are speaking in complete ignorance you are eager to deprive these people of their livelihoods.
It was you and people like you who kept telling everyone to get the vaccine. Remember, you must get the vaccine ( really more akin to a flu shot for Covid than a vaccine) so you won’t get the virus. It will protect you from the virus. Fauci said it, the CDC said and the news networks parroted it hour after hour and day after day. And of course you and all the followers lapped it up because, after all, these are intelligent and educated people.
Then a funny thing happened. Docs and researchers started going public with the fact that their data was not supporting the position that the vaccine prevented one from getting the virus. Remember what happened. They were branded deniers and disinformation spreaders by people like you. They were kicked off twitter and Facebook for spreading disinformation. Then slowly the data began to be recognized as showing the vaccine did not keep you from getting the virus. Horror of horrors!! The “experts”, the news media and people like you had been wrong!
So plan B was enacted. Well sure it does not keep you from getting the virus but it does keep you from spreading the virus. So America, you must get the vaccine so you don’t give it to Granny or little Johnny. So Fauci and the CDC went with that for a while. But then those pesky researchers, the ones who actually follow the data, began saying that their data did not support that either. Of course they still were not on twitter or Facebook, so they could not be banned again, but the same cast of characters cast doubt on their work until eventually the intelligent and educated people had to agree. So now we know the vaccine neither prevents one from catching the virus nor from spreading the virus.
So it was on to plan C, or was it D. I forget. Anyway now you have to get the Covid shot because it will keep you from getting so sick with the virus. Hmm. Now these are the same folks who fed us that other bogus information so maybe a touch of skepticism is in order. Who knows , maybe the intelligent and educated ones will be right this time. After all, even a blind squirrel finds an acorn now and then. But as far as I know there are no controlled studies that prove that to be true. BTW, I know lots of unvaccinated folks who got a very mild form back in 20, so mild cases may have more to do with the specific virus and the individual’s immune system than the vaccine.
So , to summarize, people who refuse to take the vaccine that has been shown not to prevent you from getting the virus, has been shown not to prevent you from spreading the virus,and has been shown to be less effective than natural immunity should be fired from their jobs, lose their homes etc all because you think they should submit themselves to the authority of experts who have been wrong so many times. Hmmm, maybe we should let them decide. Their bodies their choice. Right??
In the absence of a vaccination program, there would have been approximately 1.1 million additional COVID-19 deaths and more than 10.3 million additional COVID-19 hospitalizations in the U.S. by November 2021.
Without the U.S. vaccination program, COVID-19 deaths would have been approximately 3.2 times higher and COVID-19 hospitalizations approximately 4.9 times higher than the actual toll during 2021.
If no one had been vaccinated, daily deaths from COVID-19 could have jumped to as high as 21,000 per day — nearly 5.2 times the level of the record peak of more than 4,000 deaths per day recorded in January 2021.
‘Operation Warp Speed”. No time for a few residual tests. Trump’s only successful policy. One that saved lives. Mad MAGA GOPers eating themselves again.
I know a clinical nurse who worked on the covid floor in a nursing home. Refused to get the vac’s. Quit her job and did independent home care for the elderly. Caught covid 3 times in two years. I asked her if any of her patient’s passed away from covid. She told me that 3 had. I was liked mmm. Wow.
That's a shame! Those people don't deserve those jobs.
It is sad how much you hate the working man.
So it’s sad that some of us don’t want a non-vaccinated cook, Uber driver, bus driver, doctor, or server around us? So what! What’s really sad is, we now have to live with a continuously changing and spreading disease because of these people.
That's a shame! Those people don't deserve those jobs.
It is sad how much you hate the working man.
So it’s sad that some of us don’t want a non-vaccinated cook, Uber driver, bus driver, doctor, or server around us? So what! What’s really sad is, we now have to live with a continuously changing and spreading disease because of these people.
Are you vaccinated? The vaccine protects you. It keeps you from getting sick, or as severely sick. The only way it stops transmission is if you aren't sick you can't transmit. It does not reduce the viral shed of someone that is sick.
Do you need to see everyone's flu vaccine card too?
Covid is no longer mainly a pandemic of the unvaccinated. Here’s why:
For the first time, a majority of Americans dying from the coronavirus received at least the primary series of the vaccine. Fifty-eight percent of coronavirus deaths in August were people who were vaccinated or boosted, according to an analysis conducted for The Health 202 by Cynthia Cox, vice president at the Kaiser Family Foundation.
Operation warp speed was trump’s only win during his 4 year administration, saving millions of lives and it’s still saving lives.….you MAGA GOPers crack me up.
The Trump administration appointed last week Dr. Moncef Slaoui and U.S. Army General Gustave F. Perna to lead the advancement of Operation Warp Speed, a program to accelerate the development, manufacturing, and distribution of COVID-19 medical countermeasures.
Slaoui, a former Chairman of both Global Research and Development and Global Vaccines at GlaxoSmithKline, will serve as the program’s chief advisor. Perna, a four-star general in charge of the U.S. Army Materiel Command, will act as its chief operating officer.
Operation Warp Speed aims to have substantial quantities of a safe and effective vaccine available by January 2021.
“Dr. Slaoui and General Perna are ideal leaders for this unprecedented effort to get vaccines, therapeutics, and diagnostics to American patients much faster than ever before,” Health and Human Services (HHS) Secretary Alex Azar said. “Since January, America’s scientists and innovators have been working day and night on this national effort. President Trump has refused to accept business-as-usual timelines for vaccines and other essential tools, and instead has insisted that America, and the world, needs answers faster.”
As the program’s new leadership demonstrates, Operation Warp Speed is a public-private partnership. It will coordinate existing efforts with new ones, and career HHS scientists will oversee each countermeasure area — vaccines, diagnostics, and therapeutics. Department of Defense (DoD) subject matter experts will support these efforts in areas including diagnostics, therapeutics, vaccines, production and distribution, and security and assistance. Further, the program has highlighted three areas of focus for its efforts: development, manufacturing, and distribution.
Almost $10 billion in supplemental funding previously allocated by Congress will be used to get Operation Warp Speed moving, including more than $6.5 meant for countermeasure development at the Biomedical Advanced Research and Development Authority and another $3 billion for research at the National Institutes of Health.
It states the purpose of wearing masks is mainly to PREVENT YOU FROM SPREADING COVID ... this was the SAME MESSAGE that was broadcast to anyone with a brain who listened at the time. There was even a meme going around about the odds decreasing with two people wearing a mask, one wearing a mask and neither wearing a mask. The biggest reduction in risk was if the COVID carrier wore the mask.
But oh well - I guess people need to pay attention to realize these things. Instead this is the sort of fake news perpetuated on soc media and all the non-believers who think Fauci invented covid in order to put trackers in the vaccine and control the population while also getting Trump out of office will see the headline and say "I KNEW IT, I KNEW IT - FUACI IS THE DEVIL INCARNATE"
My never ending frustration since all this started, or at least once manufacturing of PPE was geared up, was that Faucci or others didn’t come out and tell people to obtain kn95 masks. You can get a box of 50 for less than $50. If people had just gotten better masks so much illness could have been prevented. Instead people squabbled over cloth masks. It made/makes no sense to me. I’ve been wearing, and continue to wear, a KN95 in indoor public settings.
It states the purpose of wearing masks is mainly to PREVENT YOU FROM SPREADING COVID ... this was the SAME MESSAGE that was broadcast to anyone with a brain who listened at the time. There was even a meme going around about the odds decreasing with two people wearing a mask, one wearing a mask and neither wearing a mask. The biggest reduction in risk was if the COVID carrier wore the mask.
But oh well - I guess people need to pay attention to realize these things. Instead this is the sort of fake news perpetuated on soc media and all the non-believers who think Fauci invented covid in order to put trackers in the vaccine and control the population while also getting Trump out of office will see the headline and say "I KNEW IT, I KNEW IT - FUACI IS THE DEVIL INCARNATE"
You don't get it mgh888; they are sMaRt and have decoded the truth. The doctor is a whacked-out far-right extremist nutjob. Did you see her Twitter feed? She describes herself as: Doctor • Lawyer • Warrior 🇺🇸 Founder & President of America’s Frontline Doctors... no red flags at all there... AND her location: Florida, USA... Her "professional website" reads like a radical manifesto, check this out: https://americasfrontlinedoctors.org/index/about-us/civil-liberties/ OMG, you can't make this crap up. These people are here and breeding.
My never ending frustration since all this started, or at least once manufacturing of PPE was geared up, was that Faucci or others didn’t come out and tell people to obtain kn95 masks. You can get a box of 50 for less than $50. If people had just gotten better masks so much illness could have been prevented. Instead people squabbled over cloth masks. It made/makes no sense to me. I’ve been wearing, and continue to wear, a KN95 in indoor public settings.
Problem is that in 2020, they wanted to conserve all the KN95/N95 masks for hospital use where they were really needed and in short supply.
That point could not have been stated publicly or privately, as the reaction would be a run on masks.
It is bit revisionist history. But I remember my wife and I making some homemade masks.
So, masks work for those infected, but not for those not infected? The virus is too small that masks won't work for those not infected because the virus will go through the mask, but somehow a mask will stop the virus from going through from the infected?
This was from Feb 2022. Nearly 3 years ago. We’ve learned a few things since then. But keep up that wasted enthusiasm on mask effectiveness that aren’t required anymore.
If you are breathing out, directly into a mask, how much of your breath passes through the mask and prevents what would have been airborne from being airborne? .... It doesn't say it's 100%. It says it reduces risk.... if there is less contaminated particles in the atmosphere because most is caught in the wearer's mask, the risk must be less. That seems to me logical. I don't know if that's the be all and end all - but it's how I always rationalized.
My never ending frustration since all this started, or at least once manufacturing of PPE was geared up, was that Faucci or others didn’t come out and tell people to obtain kn95 masks. You can get a box of 50 for less than $50. If people had just gotten better masks so much illness could have been prevented. Instead people squabbled over cloth masks. It made/makes no sense to me. I’ve been wearing, and continue to wear, a KN95 in indoor public settings.
Problem is that in 2020, they wanted to conserve all the KN95/N95 masks for hospital use where they were really needed and in short supply.
That point could not have been stated publicly or privately, as the reaction would be a run on masks.
It is bit revisionist history. But I remember my wife and I making some homemade masks.
Categorize it under lessons learned.
That’s why I added “after PPE manufacturing was geared up”. Even then I purchased my first box of 50 KN95s relatively early in all this. To this day I still see cloth masks or surgical/procedure masks being worn. Why those people haven’t just bought KN95s I don’t understand. If you’re going to still mask, wear one that’ll do the best/better job.
If you are breathing out, directly into a mask, how much of your breath passes through the mask and prevents what would have been airborne from being airborne? .... It doesn't say it's 100%. It says it reduces risk.... if there is less contaminated particles in the atmosphere because most is caught in the wearer's mask, the risk must be less. That seems to me logical. I don't know if that's the be all and end all - but it's how I always rationalized.
Yes, that is logical. But mask mandates were for everyone, not just the sick. Enlighten me. What does a healthy person wearing a mask accomplish? There were many covid policies in place that made zero sense. Questioning these policies got people labeled as anti-science murderers that wanted people to die.
1, covid can be passed from someone who is pre-symptomatic or minimally symptomatic. So people may be contagious before they became aware that they were sick
2, as we all know, sick people won't always wear their masks. Even with the flu, people know they are sick but go into work anyway because they don't want to waste a sick day when they are actually sick. They want to use them when they are healthy and treat their sick days as additional vacation days
3, masking the healthy with a surgical mask does decrease transmission, just not as much as masking the sick individual. N95 masks on a non sick individual does do a great job at keeping that person from catching covid
3, masking the healthy with a surgical mask does decrease transmission, just not as much as masking the sick individual. N95 masks on a non sick individual does do a great job at keeping that person from catching covid
Maybe 5% of the people I saw when I was out and about wore surgical/N95 masks. Most people complained they couldn't breathe in them and basically wore t-shirts on their faces for a year.
Interesting perspective of things and how they have changed over time.
Some people are asymptomatic - some don't care if they spread it or not - some didn't and don't believe in CV-19 - some said it's just like regular flu.
Some people are asymptomatic - some don't care if they spread it or not - some didn't and don't believe in CV-19 - some said it's just like regular flu.
Whole lot of reasons for mask mandates.
And probably for not. My point being are we really back to all of this again?
As an older guy I go to the Dr. fairly often. I went today(yesterday) as a matter of fact. I even got a covid boost when offered. Why not, right? She bumped my BP medication a bit to try to knock a few points off the blood pressure. Let's try it and see.
I guess where I am going with this is I am a team player and usually pretty agreeable to things, but not so much when I am mandated. I go with the flow, but only so long.
It states the purpose of wearing masks is mainly to PREVENT YOU FROM SPREADING COVID ... this was the SAME MESSAGE that was broadcast to anyone with a brain who listened at the time. There was even a meme going around about the odds decreasing with two people wearing a mask, one wearing a mask and neither wearing a mask. The biggest reduction in risk was if the COVID carrier wore the mask.
But oh well - I guess people need to pay attention to realize these things. Instead this is the sort of fake news perpetuated on soc media and all the non-believers who think Fauci invented covid in order to put trackers in the vaccine and control the population while also getting Trump out of office will see the headline and say "I KNEW IT, I KNEW IT - FUACI IS THE DEVIL INCARNATE"
You don't get it mgh888; they are sMaRt and have decoded the truth. The doctor is a whacked-out far-right extremist nutjob. Did you see her Twitter feed? She describes herself as: Doctor • Lawyer • Warrior 🇺🇸 Founder & President of America’s Frontline Doctors... no red flags at all there... AND her location: Florida, USA... Her "professional website" reads like a radical manifesto, check this out: https://americasfrontlinedoctors.org/index/about-us/civil-liberties/ OMG, you can't make this crap up. These people are here and breeding.
For the majority of her life, Gold was not involved in politics.[11] In 2011, she donated to the campaign of Raul Ruiz, a California Democrat, and in 2019 donated $1,000 to the campaign of Susan Collins, a Maine Republican.[11] According to Gold, "I'd fall in the middle of any partisan test. I don't believe in the right–left distinction... That's the trouble with being in the middle of the road. Sometimes you get run over."[11]
Far right extremist. Would have agreed with grifter.
Amid a ‘Tripledemic,’ It’s Time to Mask Up Again, Experts Say Story by Dana G. Smith • 5h ago 426 Comments
Masks are back, and, this time, they’re not just for Covid-19. A “tripledemic” of the coronavirus, influenza and respiratory syncytial virus, known as R.S.V., sweeping through the United States has prompted several cities and counties, including New York City and Los Angeles County, to encourage people to wear a mask in indoor public spaces once again.
Nationwide, Covid-19 case rates and hospitalizations have spiked by 56 percent and 24 percent, respectively, over the past two weeks. The Centers for Disease Control and Prevention estimates that there have already been 13 million illnesses and 7,300 deaths from flu this season, and those numbers are expected to rise in the coming months. (Over the past decade, annual flu deaths have ranged from 12,000 to 52,000 people, with the peak in January and February.) And while R.S.V. finally appears to be on the decline, infection rates are still high across much of the country.
The C.D.C. officially advises wearing a mask on a county-by-county basis depending on community Covid-19 levels, which take into account virus-related hospital admissions, bed capacity and case rates. However, in an interview with NPR last week, Dr. Rochelle Walensky, the C.D.C. director, said, “You don’t need to wait for C.D.C.’s recommendation, certainly, to wear a mask.”
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Rates of Covid-19, flu and R.S.V. “may be more intense or a little bit less intense in some parts of the country, but really, the entire country is being affected,” said Dr. William Schaffner, a professor of preventive medicine at the Vanderbilt University School of Medicine. As a result, he urged anyone who lives in a high-risk household to “put your mask back on” when in public spaces. High-risk households would include those with adults over the age of 65, pregnant women, people with a pre-existing condition such as heart disease, diabetes or lung disease and anyone who is immune-compromised.
There is strong evidence that masks help to reduce the transmission of several respiratory viruses. One paper published in 2020 by researchers in Hong Kong showed that people sick with either Covid-19 or the flu breathed out fewer viral particles when they were wearing a surgical mask. (Masks were found not to be as effective for the rhinovirus, though, which causes the common cold.) A study of Covid-19 policies in Boston-area schools found that removing a mask mandate in 2022 was tied to nearly 12,000 additional cases among students and staff.
Rates of influenza and other respiratory viruses essentially flattened during the 2020 and 2021 winter seasons, which was largely attributed to the protections the country took to prevent the spread of Covid-19. “What Covid has shown us, because we’ve been social distancing and mask wearing, is that influenza, the common cold viruses, R.S.V. are suppressed remarkably” by these small individual behaviors, Dr. Schaffner said.
Masks work by filtering out both the tiny aerosol particles through which the coronavirus is primarily spread and the larger droplets that are thought to be responsible for most influenza and R.S.V. transmission. They also stop you from touching your face in case you picked up virus particles on your hands from a doorknob or subway pole. And while masks are most effective at stopping the spread of these viruses when the infected person is wearing one, masking to protect yourself from disease is still beneficial, particularly if you’re using a high-quality version like N95, KN95 or KF94.
“The basic truth is that masks work,” said Syra Madad, senior director of the systemwide special pathogens program at New York City Health + Hospitals. “Whether you’re talking about Covid-19 or other respiratory viruses like R.S.V. and flu, wearing a mask will help protect you against all these respiratory viral illnesses.”
Other public health measures, such as hand washing, surface wiping and air filtration, are also important to limit the spread of respiratory viruses. Special emphasis has been placed on vaccination, especially by the White House and C.D.C., and you should absolutely get a flu shot and the latest Covid-19 booster if you haven’t already. But vaccines are best thought of as protection against severe illness if you do get infected with a virus. Masks are the first line of defense against transmission.
“Frankly, to prevent transmission, neither antivirals nor vaccines have done a great job,” said Dr. Abraar Karan, an infectious disease fellow and postdoctoral researcher at Stanford Medicine. “What prevents transmission is actually masking and likely air filtration.”
When weighing when and where to mask, Dr. Madad recommended paying attention to the “Three Cs”: close contact, crowded spaces and confined places with poor ventilation. The experts urged wearing masks while traveling on planes and public transportation, and they strongly suggested doing it while out shopping for groceries and gifts. For smaller holiday parties with people you know, it’s fine to forgo masks if guests test beforehand and stay home if they’re feeling rundown.
Realistically, not everyone in the United States — or a certain city — will wear a mask. In fact, you might find yourself the only person in a store or on a plane who’s wearing one. Don’t let that discourage you. For one thing, remember that no one is thinking about you as much as you think they are. In social psychology, this is called the spotlight illusion, said Gretchen Chapman, a professor of social and decision sciences at Carnegie Mellon University. “I may feel that everyone’s staring at me because I’m wearing a mask, but chances are that’s like the 11th thing on their list to worry about,” she said.
What’s more, Dr. Chapman said, “There are lots of situations in life where we do something that makes us feel awkward, but if we think it’s important enough, we do it anyway.”
"First responders may also consider taking precautions to protect themselves from COVID when responding to traffic crashes, the authors added, as it’s more likely that a driver is unvaccinated than vaccinated."
the authors theorize that people who resist public health recommendations might also “neglect basic road safety guidelines.”
They are trying too hard to be nice. More auto accidents by the unvaccinated are no surprise to me. These people have their hair on fire over a life-saving vaccine; I can't imagine they fully stop at stop signs. Their heads probably look like bobbleheads as they drive with all the shiny distractions along the roadways. They should have just said they aren't as smart or aware.
"First responders may also consider taking precautions to protect themselves from COVID when responding to traffic crashes, the authors added, as it’s more likely that a driver is unvaccinated than vaccinated."
It's funny now, but I felt like wearing a full-body prophylactic barrier at the height of the lockdowns Trump imposed. Going to the grocery store was life and death for people like me, and these morons didn't give a damn.
"First responders may also consider taking precautions to protect themselves from COVID when responding to traffic crashes, the authors added, as it’s more likely that a driver is unvaccinated than vaccinated."
It's funny now, but I felt like wearing a full-body prophylactic barrier at the height of the lockdowns Trump imposed. Going to the grocery store was life and death for people like me, and these morons didn't give a damn.
1. Build a gallows 2. Get the necessary permits to hold a public gathering at a public space 3. Rent a truck to haul that gallows to a public space 4. Erect gallows at that public location 5. Find, subdue, and abduct Anthony Fauci/transport him to the permitted public space 6. Personally drag him up the stairs to the gallows platform, place the noose around his neck, and toss him off. In front of cameras and cellphones... because it's a public event, after all-
If you care enough to troll the board in ALL CAPS, you should possess sack enough to actually make it happen. Put your money where your halitosis lives.
I'm posting this at 12:22 AM. You have 11 hours and 38 minutes to make it happen.
Florida pastor and his son are arrested in alleged $8 million Covid scam
An NBC News report in July raised questions about why they hadn’t been charged in the alleged scam, which prosecutors outlined in court papers in late 2020.
A Florida pastor and his son were arrested Wednesday on charges of fraudulently obtaining more than $8 million in federal Covid relief funds and attempting to use some of the money to buy a luxury home near Walt Disney World.
Evan Edwards and his son, Josh, 30, were taken into custody five months after an NBC News report raised questions over why they hadn’t been charged in the alleged scam, which federal prosecutors first identified in court papers in December 2020.
It wasn’t immediately clear if the family had hired an attorney.
A source familiar with the investigation said NBC News' previous reporting led law enforcement to prioritize the case.
The case dates back to April 2020 when Josh Edwards applied for a $6 million Paycheck Protection Program (PPP) loan to cover payroll, rent and utilities for his family’s ministry. In the loan application, he claimed that the organization, ASLAN International Ministry, had 486 employees and a monthly payroll of $2.7 million, according to a federal forfeiture complaint.
ASLAN International was ultimately approved for an $8.4 million loan.
But when federal investigators showed up at the ministry's office in Orlando, the door was locked and workers at the neighboring businesses told them nobody was ever seen inside, the complaint says. A review of the ministry’s website found that the donation links were inactive and sections of text were apparently lifted from other religious sites, according to the complaint.
There were other red flags. The man who was listed on the loan application as the ministry’s accountant suffered from dementia and hadn’t done any work for the organization since 2017, federal prosecutors said in court papers, citing an interview with the man’s son.
Federal agents descended on the family's home in New Smyrna Beach about 7 a.m. Wednesday.
Evan Edwards was wheeled out of the house in a wheelchair. Agents escorted Josh Edwards out of the home and into a law enforcement vehicle, his hands cuffed behind his back.
A six-count indictment unsealed Wednesday accuses them of making a series of false claims in their PPP loan application, including that ASLAN International had 486 employees and average monthly payroll expenses of $2.7 million.
Evan and Josh Edwards knew that ASLAN's actual number of employees and actual monthly payroll expenses was "significantly lower, or entirely nonexistent," the says the indictment filed by prosecutors in the Middle District of Florida.
The two men, who are originally from Canada, were hit with a total of six charges, including conspiracy to commit bank fraud and visa fraud. They were expected to appear in a federal court in Orlando Wednesday afternoon.
"I'm glad they got arrested," one neighbor, who requested anonymity due to the sensitivity of the case, told NBC News. "It's a long time coming."
The Edwards family did missionary work in Turkey for many years before moving to Florida in 2019. They settled in a newly-built community located about an hour’s drive from Orlando. In September 2020, federal agents showed up at the home to execute a search warrant but no one was there and the place had been “cleared out,” according to the civil forfeiture complaint.
Florida police officers pulled over the family’s Mercedes SUV later that evening. They were speeding on I-75 north of Gainesville, according to a police report.
Federal agents arrived on the scene and found bags of shredded documents in the vehicle, as well as suitcases full of financial records and their electronic devices stuffed into so-called Faraday bags, which block radio frequencies to keep them from being tracked, according to the civil forfeiture complaint.
The family was taken into custody on an unrelated immigration charge but released the next day when the case was dismissed, according to court records.
Six months later, in April 2021, a federal judge in Florida ordered the forfeiture of the $8.4 million the Edwards family had received after the government claimed that it was the proceeds from bank fraud and money laundering offenses. The Edwards family did not challenge the seizure.
They had tried to use a portion of the money to purchase a $3.7 million home in a new Disney World development called Golden Oaks, according to the complaint.
But the deal never went through. The authorities seized the $868,000 that was set aside for the down payment on the 4,700-square-foot home, the complaint says.
From Canada taking US tax payers money we’ll never see again. And now we’ll pay for their prosecution as well. They should just be dropped off without food in the Canadian wilderness. Funny how the right only focuses in on the bad hombre’s from our southern border.
What lives did that jackass save?!? He told the public to wear masks when he told his friends they were useless... and he fund gain of function research that likely lead to this friggin pandemic...
Fauci is an ass.... glad he's finally retiring... wish he was fired...
What lives did that jackass save?!? He told the public to wear masks when he told his friends they were useless... and he fund gain of function research that likely lead to this friggin pandemic...
Fauci is an ass.... glad he's finally retiring... wish he was fired...
He also told people NOT TO DRINK bleach. The man's a damn hero. If it weren't for him, Trump would have shoved a UV light up your ass! You should send him a thank you note and an apology for being misled.
Well, it took him 78 years to amass a net worth of 5 million, he more than doubled that during the pandemic. Not that it had anything to do with COVID.
What lives did that jackass save?!? He told the public to wear masks when he told his friends they were useless... and he fund gain of function research that likely lead to this friggin pandemic...
Fauci is an ass.... glad he's finally retiring... wish he was fired...
He also told people NOT TO DRINK bleach. The man's a damn hero. If it weren't for him, Trump would have shoved a UV light up your ass! You should send him a thank you note and an apology for being misled.
Fauci is a fraud.... glad we should be done with him soon
COVID spreading faster than ever in China. 800 million could be infected this winter
China is now facing what is likely the world's largest COVID surge of the pandemic. China's public health officials say that possibly 800 million people could be infected with the coronavirus over the next few months. And several models predict that a half million people could die, possibly more.
"Recently, the deputy director of China CDC, Xiaofeng Liang, who' s a good friend of mine, was announcing through the public media that the first COVID wave may, in fact, infect around 60% of the population," says Xi Chen, who's a global health researcher at Yale University and an expert on China's health-care system.
That means about 10% of the planet's population may become infected over the course of the next 90 days.
Epidemiologist Ben Cowling agrees with this prediction. "This surge is going to come very fast, unfortunately. That's the worst thing," says Cowling, who's at the University of Hong Kong. "If it was slower, China would have time to prepare. But this is so fast. In Beijing, there's already a load of cases and [in] other major cities because it's spreading so fast.
The fastest spread of COVID yet
Cowling says the virus is spreading faster in China than it's spread ever before anywhere during the pandemic. It also looks to be especially contagious in the Chinese population.
To estimate a virus's transmissibility, scientists often use a parameter called the reproductive number, or R number. Basically, the R number tells you on average how many people one sick person infects. So for instance, at the beginning of the COVID pandemic, in early 2020, the R number was about 2 or 3, Cowling says. At that time, each person spread the virus to 2 to 3 people on average. During the omicron surge here in the U.S. last winter, the R number had jumped up to about 10 or 11, studies have found.
Scientists at the China National Health Commission estimate the R number is currently a whopping 16 in China durng this surge. "This is a really high level of transmissibility," Cowling says. "That's why China couldn't keep their zero-COVID policy going. The virus is just too transmissible even for them."
On top of that, the virus appears to be spreading faster in China than omicron spread in surges elsewhere, Cowling adds. Last winter, cases doubled in the U.S. every three days or so. "Now in China, the doubling time is like hours," Cowling says. "Even if you manage to slow it down a bit, it's still going to be doubling very, very quickly. And so the hospitals are going to come under pressure possibly by the end of this month."
So why is the virus spreading so explosively there?
The reason is that the population has very little immunity to the virus because the vast majority of people have never been infected. Until recently, China has focused on massive quarantines, testing and travel restrictions to keep the virus mostly out of the country. So China prevented most people from getting infected with variants that came before omicron. But that means now nearly all 1.4 billion people are susceptible to an infection.
China currently has a few highly transmissible variants of omicron spreading across the country, including one called BF.7. But these variants in China aren't particularly unique, and the U.S. currently has the same ones or similar ones, including BF.7. In the U.S., however, none of the variants appear to be spreading as quickly as they are in China.
And what about vaccines? Will they stem the surge?
About 90% of the population over age 18 have been vaccinated with two shots of a Chinese vaccine. This course offers good protection against severe disease, Cowling says, but it doesn't protect against an infection. Furthermore, adults over age 60 need three shots of the vaccine to protect against severe disease, Cowling's research has found. Only about 50% of older people have received that third shot, NPR has reported. And that leaves about 11 million people still at high risk for hospitalization and death.
"There is great uncertainty about how many severe cases there will be," says Chen at Yale University. "Right now in Beijing we don't see many severe cases." However, the outbreak could look quite different outside major coastal cities like Beijing because rural areas have much poorer health-care systems.
"In China, there's such a large geographic disparity in terms of health-care infrastructure, ICU beds and medical professionals. Most of the hospitals with advanced treatment technologies are located in Beijing, Shanghai, Guangzhou, and all the big metropolitan areas."
Despite a recent effort by the government to increase ICU capacity, Chen still thinks there are way too few ICU beds in many parts of the country. "I don't quite believe the new estimate of 10 ICU beds per 100,000 people because this new number includes something they call a 'convertible.' So these are beds that are used for other treatments, such as chemotherapy and dialysis, that they are converting to an ICU bed."
Predictions about the death toll Several models have predicted a large death toll for this initial surge, with at least a half million deaths, perhaps up to a million.
But that number, Chen says, depends a lot on two factors.
First off, people's behavior. If people at high risk continue to quarantine voluntarily, the death toll could be lower.
Second, how well the health-care system holds up under this pressure. "This is going to be a major test – and it's unprecedented," he says. "In my memory, I have never seen such a challenge to the Chinese health-care system."
No one knows for sure what's going to happen in China. But you can make some predictions based on what's happened in neighboring places faced with a similar surge. Take Hong Kong, for instance. Like China, the city had kept COVID at bay for years. But then last winter, they suffered a massive omicron surge. Over the course of only two to three months, about 3 to 4 million — or 50% of the population — caught COVID, Cowling says.
But Cowling thinks that ultimately China will still fare much better against COVID than America has.
"China has done really well to hold back the virus for three years, and ultimately, I think, the mortality rate will still be much lower than elsewhere in the world," he says, because the country has vaccinated such a high percentage of its population overall. In other words, the death toll will likely be high, given the sheer number of people infected, but it could have been much worse without the vaccinations, he explains.
"The mortality rate in China isn't going to surpass America's mortality rate [0.3%] at this point," he says. "But China has a really tough winter ahead."
Man who threatened to kill CDC chief Rochelle Walensky pleads guilty
A man who threatened to kill CDC director Rochelle Walensky has pleaded guilty to "making threats in interstate commerce," federal prosecutors said Monday.
Details: Robert Wiser Bates told FBI agents he called the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention in Atlanta, Georgia, to leave threatening voicemails for Walensky in July 2021 that stated "he would kill Dr. Anthony Fauci as well," per a statement from the U.S. Attorney's Office for the Southern District of Mississippi.
What's next: Bates, 39, of Ridgeland, Mississippi, is scheduled to be sentenced in March and faces a maximum penalty of five years in prison and a $250,000 fine, according to prosecutors.
The big picture: The American Medical Association warned in February that a rise in intimidation, threats and attacks on medical professionals over the past decade had become "even more of an alarming phenomenon since the beginning of the COVID-19 pandemic."
Fauci, who's stepping down as National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases director this month, had his security stepped up in 2020 due to threats. In August, a West Virginia man who threatened to kill to the 81-year-old Fauci was sentenced to over three years in prison.
Covid sucks, just home from Disney for 50th wedding anniversary, daughter from Washington exposed before coming, gave it to Mom and Dad....BUT, vacced and not real bad even if we're in 70s +...7 yr old granddaughter has it for second time....new normal, everyone has it multiple times, never ending.....ain't life great. JMHO, I'd hate being teacher, imagine having all those kids getting variants all the time and infecting you......runny nose, tired, and coughing permanently.....GREAT.
What lives did that jackass save?!? He told the public to wear masks when he told his friends they were useless... and he fund gain of function research that likely lead to this friggin pandemic...
Fauci is an ass.... glad he's finally retiring... wish he was fired...
The next time you or your loved one has surgery tell the surgeon not to bother with a mask.
Sometimes it's not even worth the bother. It's obvious as the nose on their faces but they refuse to see it. You can be a carrier of Covid for days before you have any symptoms. Wearing a mask helped prevent the spread of Covid. It helped save lives.
Of course not much seems to be getting out and they stopped reporting numbers-but China seems to be in the beginning stages of a massive Covid wave- If they have as many as 800 million cases in the next year-that would really tax ppe supplies, oxygen supplies and medicines-as well if the numbers get to this level, they would have to start shutting down their economy again-and we all know how much stuff they provide for us. looks like another year of supply chain issues
Of course not much seems to be getting out and they stopped reporting numbers-but China seems to be in the beginning stages of a massive Covid wave- If they have as many as 800 million cases in the next year-that would really tax ppe supplies, oxygen supplies and medicines-as well if the numbers get to this level, they would have to start shutting down their economy again-and we all know how much stuff they provide for us. looks like another year of supply chain issues
Maybe the Chinese government should make a call to Pfizer, Moderna, or J&J soon, otherwise they’re going to need all of those medicines PPE supplies and oxygen tanks to stay right there in China.
So you're trying to compare China now with a huge outbreak to lumping in a bunch of Muslim nations into one when the Covid risk wasn't as bad in those nations as many other countries that weren't banned? I expect no less.
Yes, that's exactly what trump was accused of so you brought it up. You even said that was a few years ago. Don't try to backtrack now. It's out there for everyone to see.
Yes, that's exactly what trump was accused of so you brought it up. You even said that was a few years ago. Don't try to backtrack now. It's out there for everyone to see.
Trump banned travel from China and he was called a xenophobe. But your selective blind devotion won't let you remember that.
Not by me on that count. Here's the funny part in all of this. Who is it you think I'm "devoted" to? Biden isn't banning people from China as I would like him to. I haven't seen any democrat come out and say he should. So it would seem I'm disagreeing with what they are proposing. But then had you have been paying attention you would know that. NEXT!
Hopefully effects are fairly mild and deaths stay at a minimum. Meanwhile, this year's flu strain is hell-on-wheels. I spent two days in bed and had four family members at urgent care in the span of a week. Both bouts with Covid were a walk-in-the-park by comparison.
WHO sounds the alarm: New COVID variant is most transmissible yet XBB.1.5 currently makes up 75% of new COVID-19 cases in the Northeast.
Yes, that's exactly what trump was accused of so you brought it up. You even said that was a few years ago. Don't try to backtrack now. It's out there for everyone to see.
Trump banned travel from China and he was called a xenophobe. But your selective blind devotion won't let you remember that.
Jump to conclusions much? Biden said he would set some guidelines for folks coming from China. He did not say he'd ban them altogether.
To be fair, when Trump did that, Covid was running rampant. This is a different time and circumstances.
He was called a xenophobe do to his including so many Muslim and Latino nations in his travel bans that didn't have any higher Covid rates then most countries. Were there a select few who included China in that? Possibly. But that isn't what the uproar was about at the time. He did take a lot of guff for calling it "The China Virus" and if anything was accused of xenophobia on that count but those are two different things. Of course even the conservative media is trying to rewrite this history so it shouldn't surprise anyone it turned up on Dawgtalkers.
That travel ban was all just Trump's racist BS manifesting in the ugliest ways. The best part of Trump ran down his momma's leg when the afterbirth was removed.
Well, that's graphic! Thanks for painting such an eloquent picture.
Quote
The ban applies to “foreign nationals, other than immediate family of U.S. citizens and permanent residents, who have traveled in China within the last 14 days,” Azar said. It will take effect at 5 p.m. Sunday Eastern Time.
Yep, seems pretty racist to me. Isn't is misogynistic as well? I mean, some of those foreign nationals may be chicks!
We need to learn to respond to pandemics in a more sympathetic way...
Weekly Covid cases have increased by about 16% to 470,699 over the past week, according to CDC data. Average daily hospital admissions have increased 16% to more than 6,500 over the past week, according to the data. Weekly deaths have also increased 8% over the week prior to more than 2,700.
Weekly Covid cases have increased by about 16% to 470,699 over the past week, according to CDC data. Average daily hospital admissions have increased 16% to more than 6,500 over the past week, according to the data. Weekly deaths have also increased 8% over the week prior to more than 2,700.
Daily... that's about 67,000 cases.
When are the indoor mask requirements returning?
If you know these numbers are true. You’re an idiot if you’re not fully vaccinated and not wearing a mask indoors. Die! I’m tired of people spreading BS to fit an agenda of cutting government spending by taking away free vaccines that help prevent more spread. Because that’s what it’s leading to.
Weekly Covid cases have increased by about 16% to 470,699 over the past week, according to CDC data. Average daily hospital admissions have increased 16% to more than 6,500 over the past week, according to the data. Weekly deaths have also increased 8% over the week prior to more than 2,700.
Daily... that's about 67,000 cases.
When are the indoor mask requirements returning?
If you know these numbers are true. You’re an idiot if you’re not fully vaccinated and not wearing a mask indoors. Die! I’m tired of people spreading BS to fit an agenda of cutting government spending by taking away free vaccines that help prevent more spread. Because that’s what it’s leading to.
You want people to die? You got your fifth booster yet??
My wife lost an uncle to Covid and her brother just went into the hospital yesterday for Covid. He isn't doing well. Both anti vaxxers. Over 1.1 million Americans have died from Covid. Your risk of hospitalization or death are decreased by getting vaccinated.
My wife said she couldn't believe that the death of their uncle didn't teach her brother anything. But then some people never learn.
I, however, don't want him to die. Nor do I think wishing death on people is, by any stretch, a very good method of virtue signaling. To each his own, I guess.
Weekly Covid cases have increased by about 16% to 470,699 over the past week, according to CDC data. Average daily hospital admissions have increased 16% to more than 6,500 over the past week, according to the data. Weekly deaths have also increased 8% over the week prior to more than 2,700.
Daily... that's about 67,000 cases.
When are the indoor mask requirements returning?
If you know these numbers are true. You’re an idiot if you’re not fully vaccinated and not wearing a mask indoors. Die! I’m tired of people spreading BS to fit an agenda of cutting government spending by taking away free vaccines that help prevent more spread. Because that’s what it’s leading to.
I asked a legitimate question because the numbers are going up and... those are the actual numbers.
Wtf... someone doesnt agree with all of your opinons and you want them to die?
Weekly Covid cases have increased by about 16% to 470,699 over the past week, according to CDC data. Average daily hospital admissions have increased 16% to more than 6,500 over the past week, according to the data. Weekly deaths have also increased 8% over the week prior to more than 2,700.
Daily... that's about 67,000 cases.
When are the indoor mask requirements returning?
If you know these numbers are true. You’re an idiot if you’re not fully vaccinated and not wearing a mask indoors. Die! I’m tired of people spreading BS to fit an agenda of cutting government spending by taking away free vaccines that help prevent more spread. Because that’s what it’s leading to.
I asked a legitimate question because the numbers are going up and... those are the actual numbers.
Wtf... someone doesnt agree with all of your opinons and you want them to die?
What's next concentration camps and gas chambers?
You are something else.
And you’re a joke. And everyone that isn’t fully vaccinated, going around unmasked indoors are idiots. Why do we need a mask requirement when we’re in the mist of natural selection killing those idiot s off? Mmmm?
I, however, don't want him to die. Nor do I think wishing death on people is, by any stretch, a very good method of virtue signaling. To each his own, I guess.
I’m sorry to hear that as well. You do reap what you sow. Not getting vaccinated while going around unmasked indoors. Then contracting and spreading Covid to others…..your virtue signaling isn’t any better bro.
I, however, don't want him to die. Nor do I think wishing death on people is, by any stretch, a very good method of virtue signaling. To each his own, I guess.
I’m sorry to hear that as well. You do reap what you sow. Not getting vaccinated while going around unmasked indoors. Then contracting and spreading Covid to others…..your virtue signaling isn’t any better bro.
I know you've been hiding under a rock with your fingers in your ears for two years, but vaccination has nothing to do with spreading covid.
You should stop, you sound... well, we'll just say "uneducated".
I, however, don't want him to die. Nor do I think wishing death on people is, by any stretch, a very good method of virtue signaling. To each his own, I guess.
I’m sorry to hear that as well. You do reap what you sow. Not getting vaccinated while going around unmasked indoors. Then contracting and spreading Covid to others…..your virtue signaling isn’t any better bro.
I know you've been hiding under a rock with your fingers in your ears for two years, but vaccination has nothing to do with spreading covid.
You should stop, you sound... well, we'll just say "uneducated".
The vaccine also seems to make you less likely to contract covid, in my experience. I've been exposed multiple times now, and unless I had it right before they knew what it was here, then so far, I haven't had it. But I get what you are saying, I just don't like the downplaying of a very important vaccine over cheap political stunts.
This divide over how to handle living with covid all stems from Trump not being man enough to admit his mistakes. Millions worldwide died, but this is definitely just an attack on American personal freedoms and our inalienable right to be complete and total dumbasses. And all this pseudoscience from the right on safety and efficacy creating a sea of misinformation doesn't help either. But I will say this much, and neither side gets to take a victory lap for being 100% vaccinated or having their fringe anti-covid-vaccine elements under control.
I doubt we see any mask mandates. At this point, those that are vaccinated should be relatively OK barring existing health conditions or a very rare occurrence. Covid is going to be here for a long time, and they aren't going to do much about it unless it grows in epic proportions.
Pretty sure anybody that is unvaccinated and unmasked indoors these days are less educated. And I’m educated enough to know we don’t need a mask mandate to fix stupid.
I doubt we see any mask mandates. At this point, those that are vaccinated should be relatively OK barring existing health conditions or a very rare occurrence. Covid is going to be here for a long time, and they aren't going to do much about it unless it grows in epic proportions.
We damn sure won't see them in Florida, and DeWine was a little in the hot seat here over them too, so he won't rush to do it either.
Pretty sure anybody that is unvaccinated and unmasked indoors these days are less educated. And I’m educated enough to know we don’t need a mask mandate to fix stupid.
Cool, then call me stupid. I've had Covid twice. Once before the vax was available, once after. The second time was omicron... which gave no #$% whether you were vaccinated or not. Both cases were mild.
Please explain why I would now choose to be vaccinated.
Pretty sure anybody that is unvaccinated and unmasked indoors these days are less educated. And I’m educated enough to know we don’t need a mask mandate to fix stupid.
Cool, then call me stupid. I've had Covid twice. Once before the vax was available, once after. The second time was omicron... which gave no #$% whether you were vaccinated or not. Both cases were mild.
Please explain why I would now choose to be vaccinated.
I wouldn’t call you stupid or an idiot unless you’re going around unmasked indoors. You know not being vaccinated and all. Maybe if you get vaccinated you won’t get it a third time with a new variant and spread it around to love ones and others, again.
Pretty sure anybody that is unvaccinated and unmasked indoors these days are less educated. And I’m educated enough to know we don’t need a mask mandate to fix stupid.
Cool, then call me stupid. I've had Covid twice. Once before the vax was available, once after. The second time was omicron... which gave no #$% whether you were vaccinated or not. Both cases were mild.
Please explain why I would now choose to be vaccinated.
I wouldn’t call you stupid or an idiot unless you’re going around unmasked indoors. You know not being vaccinated and all. Maybe if you get vaccinated you won’t get it a third time with a new variant and spread it around to love ones and others, again.
Being vaxxed does not stop you from spreading covid. That's been the "science" for a couple years now.
Which part of that, the most simplistic of statements, do you not understand??
And again, have you had your fifthsixthseventh eighth booster?? The boosters wane after 90 days... that's been the science for years now. Anybody taking some holier-than-thou position without standing in line for a booster every 90 days is a fraud.
Relax bro. geez. I don’t care if people get vaccinated or not. I consider this disease the science of natural selection taking out the weak and weak minded. BTW not wearing a mask indoors helps the spread of COVID especially if that person has COVID, doesn’t know it, or is not vaccinated to help prevent them from contracting it.
Relax bro. geez. I don’t care if people get vaccinated or not. I consider this disease the science of natural selection taking out the weak and weak minded. BTW not wearing a mask indoors helps the spread of COVID especially if that person has COVID, doesn’t know it, and is not vaccinated to help prevent them from contracting it.
Especially if they're wearing brown shoes on a Tuesday.
Just responding to more of your nonsensical jibberish...
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BTW not wearing a mask indoors helps the spread of COVID especially if that person has COVID, doesn’t know it, and is not vaccinated to help prevent them from contracting it.
Do you realize a third-grader can decipher the idiocy of that post?
Try and follow along... it will be difficult.
If a person has covid, but doesn't know it...
A mask will not be more effective if a person is vaccinated. The mask doesn't know or care if the person is vaccinated.
Please. just. stop.
I didn't kill anyone, j/a.
I isolated with my wife. I had to pump gas on the way home. I wore a disposable glove pumping gas and wiped the pump handle when I was done.
You and your ilk have this never-ending quest to paint certain people as evil. It does nothing but show your true colors.
BTW... my whole family is vaccinated. They got me sick. Explain that.
I mask with a KN95 indoors because others’ don’t. Let COVID sort it out. I likely got the Alpha or Delta variant in February of 2020. I’ve never been so sick. I have no desire to repeat it. I’ve worn an N95 at work, and a KN95 in public since. Proper masks do work. I’ve been exposed to COVID very regularly since this all started. I’ve avoided getting it thus far. As I stated, I mask in public because others’ don’t.
BTW... my whole family is vaccinated. They got me sick. Explain that.
How in the world can you be so sure you didn’t spread it to others before testing positive? And you probably weren’t wearing a mask indoors could explain how your family spread it to you. Doesn’t it even occur to you how irresponsible you’ve been. With your attitude you’re on your way to a 3rd round of COVID to spread about. Good luck.
A K-95 mask certainly helps prevent you from spreading Covid if you have Covid. It certainly helps to protect those around you. Some people seem to think that's irrelevant. Being vaccinated certainly helps the odds of preventing you from being hospitalized or dying of Covid. You can have Covid and be a carrier for days before you see symptoms of Covid. The only reason I can see that people wouldn't wear a mask around others to help protect against a larger risk of spreading the disease is that they're only thinking of themselves and have no regard about spreading it to others.
Hell, my brother in laws wife had just taken him to the hospital for Covid. She had been around him for a week with him having symptoms which got so severe he had to be hospitalized. She had not been tested. What did she decide to do right after she got home from taking him to the hospital? Go to Church, unmasked. There are idiots among us.
Mother Blames Covid Vaccine and Government After Son Develops Blood Clots in His Brain 9 Days Following Vaccine – Son Now Has More Clots and a Damaged Heart
``````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````` 21-Year-Old US Army Fire Control Specialist Dies Suddenly While in the Shower at Her Fiancés Home
``````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````` Air Force Academy Offensive Lineman and Cadet Hunter Brown Dies Suddenly While Walking to Class
`````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````` 17-Year-Old High School Student in Ohio Dies Suddenly From “Cardiac Arrest” While at School
The Gateway Pundit Website thegatewaypundit.com The Gateway Pundit is an American far-right fake news website. The website is known for publishing falsehoods, hoaxes, and conspiracy theories. Founded by Jim Hoft in 2004, The Gateway Pundit expanded from a one-person enterprise into a multi-employee operation that is supported primarily by advertising revenue. Wikipedia Date launched: 2004 Created by: Jim Hoft
I have no reason to believe anything this rag prints......
The Gateway Pundit Website thegatewaypundit.com The Gateway Pundit is an American far-right fake news website. The website is known for publishing falsehoods, hoaxes, and conspiracy theories. Founded by Jim Hoft in 2004, The Gateway Pundit expanded from a one-person enterprise into a multi-employee operation that is supported primarily by advertising revenue. Wikipedia Date launched: 2004 Created by: Jim Hoft
I have no reason to believe anything this rag prints......
Nobody should believe everything they read. But they do.
What's disturbing? I mean, the best way to make sure you have the right vaccine is to create the virus first... that way you know you have the cure. It's basic science!
Can't just bury this one under "I saw it on the internet".
The person in the interview, Jordan Walker works as Pfizer Director, Research & Development Strategic Operations... He is two people removed from the CEO, Albert Bourla.
Unless this deep-fake is a robot and million-dollar Hollywood production, Pfizer is considering their own 'gain-of-function' research. "mutate it ourselves, so we could focus on, create, preemptively develop new vaccines"
The interviewer asks: "Okay. So, Pfizer ultimately is thinking about mutating COVID?" The interviewee replies: "Well that is not what we say to the public, no. That's why it was, it was a thought that came up in a meeting and we were like: 'Why do we not?'
The interviewer asks: "So, I mean, when Is Pfizer going to implement the mutation of all these viruses?" The interviewee responds: "I don't know, it depends on how the experiments work out because this is just like, something we're trying, right?"
The interviewer asks: "So, tell me more, what's developing with the whole, you know, virus mutation process?" The interviewee says: "Well, they're still kinds of conducting the experiments on it but it seems like from what I've heard, they're kind of optimizing it, but they're going slow cause everyone's very cautious, like, you know, obviously they don't want to accelerate it too much. But I think they're also just trying to do it as an exploratory thing because you obviously don't want to advertise that you are figuring out future mutations."
No big deal right? I mean, we should trust these companies to act in the best interest of the public. 🤢
I certainly don't trust these companies. Pfizer has faced several lawsuits concerning other drugs they have on the market. And I do think context means a lot. What was posted looks damning when isolated without any context. But viruses do mutate. There have been several mutations of Covid already with the different strains. It's quite possible there is a pattern to those mutations.
So there are two trains of thought that could be taken here. One is some conspiratorial context that Pfizer is creating new strains of the virus to perpetrate on society in order to to push the sale of a new version of the vaccine. Or that Phizer could be making mutations in the lab in order to find vaccines that would be effective against them based on the mutations they have seen up to this point. So could it be a big deal? Possibly.
Or it could simply be R&D to develop new vaccines by studying mutations based on the trend they have seen thus far in the virus and trying to predict the next mutations to develop vaccines for them before they happen. For one to believe the former one would have to conclude that the third ranking person at Pfizer decided to out some nefarious plot. I don't find that as being a logical conclusion.
Not on this matter, no. I think you need a mirror for your birthday.
Unless of course you think butting into the middle of a discussion to deliver personal shots at others is an attribute. Oh that's right that's what you were making your comment about while doing the exact same thing. You do understand what the word hypocrisy means, right?
That's fine. But your first thought was that people are stupid and gullible and believe everything they see on the internet, right?
I think you painted both extremes; I'll paint between the stripes... You have a corporation, whose real concern is only one thing (profit), trying to manipulate a virus under the guise of "common good". Seems like it would be a better idea to react to mutations as they emerge, not try to create them in advance, right? You'd have to be blind to see this should be much more of a screen play and much less real life.
Virus - likely created in a lab during gain of function research, infects 3.8 billion people. Drug company - puts virus back in a lab, to do gain of function research - to protect the people!
Dark Comedy or Horror... either script will suffice.
Unless of course you think butting into the middle of a discussion to deliver personal shots at others is an attribute. Oh that's right that's what you were making your comment about while doing the exact same thing. You do understand what the word hypocrisy means, right?
Like I said, some people buy into conspiracy theories as their first go to. You see, if Pfizer has the leg up in having a vaccine already prepared and ready for market when a new strain gains hold, that does give them a huge advantage in the vaccine market. That covers your profit angle. I don't see how thinking they might be using mutations to help them develop potential vaccines for future mutations of Covid is extreme.
Wow. A logical conclusion seems to be something you're allergic to. That's when you know things are getting bad. When the conspiracy theory makes more sense to people than a logical explanation against it does.
Any logical example that isn't some drawn out and long winded explanation is what you refer to as a trope. I've lost count of the times you've used the trope, trope.
That would have worked for you had you been commenting on the conversation. But you weren't. You're trying too hard to make this about me and it shows.
I won’t get into a back and forth, I’ll just add that labs grow all kinds of nasty, contagious, deadly things such as viruses, bacteria, molds, etc all the time for research purposes. To try to create better, more effective means of stopping said pathogens. Not to unleash the seal of pestilence upon mankind.
Any logical example that isn't some drawn out and long winded explanation is what you refer to as a trope. I've lost count of the times you've used the trope, trope.
And right on que, the I know you are but what am I trope.
I won’t get into a back and forth, I’ll just add that labs grow all kinds of nasty, contagious, deadly things such as viruses, bacteria, molds, etc all the time for research purposes. To try to create better, more effective means of stopping said pathogens. Not to unleash the seal of pestilence upon mankind.
Now back to your regularly schedule squabbling.
Don't throw facts into the equation to muddy the waters. I mean how are they going to be able to claim that's an extreme view now?
And you never fail to attack anyone saying things you don't like to hear. You have no idea you resemble your own remarks do you?
You really do bring out the worst in people. But you can't, for even a moment, reflect on your own part in people "attacking" you. It is always someone else's fault. It is always people attacking you without any sort of provocation from you. You are just a sweet innocent little pumpkin that just gets tread upon.
Funny how it is always you at the center of the toxic culture here and you aren't the problem. It is an easy calculus to see where the real problem lies, but your vision can't see inside the perimeter of your own nose.
I won’t get into a back and forth, I’ll just add that labs grow all kinds of nasty, contagious, deadly things such as viruses, bacteria, molds, etc all the time for research purposes. To try to create better, more effective means of stopping said pathogens. Not to unleash the seal of pestilence upon mankind.
Now back to your regularly schedule squabbling.
Don't throw facts into the equation to muddy the waters. I mean how are they going to be able to claim that's an extreme view now?
Who is "they"? You two are the only posters to bring an extreme view or conspiracy theory.
But you're right, Port. Labs do grow all kinds of nasty, contagious, deadly things such as viruses, bacteria, molds, etc all the time for research purposes. Just not SARS or MERS. The White House outlawed that in 2014.
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Gain-of-function is a term that could describe any type of virology research that results in the gain of a certain function. But the type that’s controversial, including among scientists, is research that causes a pathogen to be more infectious, particularly to humans.
In 2014, the U.S. government put a pause on new funding of gain-of-function research, which it defined this way: “With an ultimate goal of better understanding disease pathways, gain-of-function studies aim to increase the ability of infectious agents to cause disease by enhancing its pathogenicity or by increasing its transmissibility.” A 2016 paper on the ethics of gain-of-function research said: “The ultimate objective of such research is to better inform public health and preparedness efforts and/or development of medical countermeasures.”
The pause — intended to provide time to address concerns about the risks and benefits of these studies — applied to certain research on influenza, MERS and SARS.
“Specifically, the funding pause will apply to gain-of-function research projects that may be reasonably anticipated to confer attributes to influenza, MERS, or SARS viruses such that the virus would have enhanced pathogenicity and/or transmissibility in mammals via the respiratory route,” the White House said in an Oct. 17, 2014, announcement.
As a Nature article at the time explained, there had been fierce debate among scientists on exactly what research should be deemed too risky. And some confusion on where the line would be drawn for this pause.
“Viruses are always mutating,” the article said, “and [Arturo] Casadevall [then a microbiologist at the Albert Einstein College of Medicine in New York City], says that it is difficult to determine how much mutation deliberately created by scientists might be ‘reasonably anticipated’ to make a virus more dangerous — the point at which the White House states research must stop.”
Remember? GOF research was waaay to dangerous, we would never allow or fund that... Fauci said so in front of congress. But not before the entire nightmare scenario came to pass.
So now it's okay for drug companies to create new strains?
Since they couldn't solve the Omicron puzzle, let's just move forward to creating new strains they can control. I'm sure they can fast-track it since our government...
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This “Future Framework” now allows reformulation to be pushed through where COVID is concerned, regardless of new molecular entity. Formal regulatory review and trials are now out the window.
From the June 28 meeting: "The manufacturers (Moderna, Pfizer, and Novavax) were asked what their production timelines are… and they said out loud, ‘So long as we don’t have to provide any clinical data, we’ll have them ready by fall.’ No one had a problem with that …"
Next stop: "The vaccine that protects against all strains, even future strains!"
And THAT sounds like a fast-track to routine childhood immunization.
Wait, no way those conversations are taking place in these board rooms.
"You see", I'm just pointing out the obvious. I didn't say Pfizer was planning to infect the world. I don't fantasize about some rogue scientist sneaking it out of that lab. I'm just pointing out the fact that drug companies have been given carte blanche to handle this entire pandemic any way they see fit. Now, possibly, even to the point of predicting the future... by securing it as a fact. The only benefit to creating a new mutation is to profit on preventing it.
Seems like a great idea. We should trust these cats to do whatever is in the best interest of humanity. I'll just make my own antibiotics, these people have much bigger fish to fry!
Prevent the next COVID strain by creating it first... I'm the crazy one. 🤣
You really do bring out the worst in people. But you can't, for even a moment, reflect on your own part in people "attacking" you.
You are no less responsible for your own actions as I am mine. I have admitted that I am snarky and sarcastic in my posts. I own that. The problem starts when people blame me because they act the exact same way. I don't really care if you do, but stop blaming me for it and own it.
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Funny how it is always you at the center of the toxic culture here and you aren't the problem. It is an easy calculus to see where the real problem lies, but your vision can't see inside the perimeter of your own nose.
Yet here you are. Acting and posting the very same way you accuse me of. Sounding the same. Then failing to take accountability for it and blaming me for your actions. You see, I'm not the type that goes along to get along. I'm also not the one who calls squabbling on a message board a "toxic culture" like some drama queen.
You are no less responsible for your own actions as I am mine. I have admitted that I am snarky and sarcastic in my posts. I own that. The problem starts when people blame me because they act the exact same way. I don't really care if you do, but stop blaming me for it and own it.
You did admit it, but that's just part of the admission isn't it? You said you treat people like that because they deserve it. THAT is how abusers think. You are a toxic person that needs help.
Now do your PitTrope and tell me to look in the mirror or "I know you are but what am I" nonsense.
Ah, the one no less guilty points the finger. And once again, your hyperbole is hilarious. You compare squabbling on a message board to abuse. Only someone trying to twist the truth would resort to such silliness.
Ah, the one no less guilty points the finger. And once again, your hyperbole is hilarious. You compare squabbling on a message board to abuse. Only someone trying to twist the truth would resort to such silliness.
I said you think how abusers think. But you will spin it with sophic arguments to make it seem like I said something else.
Typical. So I can assume you cosign on letting a drug company create new COVID strains?
New York, N.Y., January 27, 2023 – Allegations have recently been made related to gain of function and directed evolution research at Pfizer and the company would like to set the record straight.
In the ongoing development of the Pfizer-BioNTech COVID-19 vaccine, Pfizer has not conducted gain of function or directed evolution research. Working with collaborators, we have conducted research where the original SARS-CoV-2 virus has been used to express the spike protein from new variants of concern. This work is undertaken once a new variant of concern has been identified by public health authorities. This research provides a way for us to rapidly assess the ability of an existing vaccine to induce antibodies that neutralize a newly identified variant of concern. We then make this data available through peer reviewed scientific journals and use it as one of the steps to determine whether a vaccine update is required.
In addition, to meet U.S. and global regulatory requirements for our oral treatment, PAXLOVID™, Pfizer undertakes in vitro work (e.g., in a laboratory culture dish) to identify potential resistance mutations to nirmatrelvir, one of PAXLOVID’s two components. With a naturally evolving virus, it is important to routinely assess the activity of an antiviral. Most of this work is conducted using computer simulations or mutations of the main protease–a non-infectious part of the virus. In a limited number of cases when a full virus does not contain any known gain of function mutations, such virus may be engineered to enable the assessment of antiviral activity in cells. In addition, in vitro resistance selection experiments are undertaken in cells incubated with SARS-CoV-2 and nirmatrelvir in our secure Biosafety level 3 (BSL3) laboratory to assess whether the main protease can mutate to yield resistant strains of the virus. It is important to note that these studies are required by U.S. and global regulators for all antiviral products and are carried out by many companies and academic institutions in the U.S. and around the world.
Fact-based information rooted in sound science is vitally important to overcoming the COVID-19 pandemic and Pfizer remains committed to transparency and helping alleviate the devastating burden of this disease.
So if you want to believe conspiracy theories and ignore science, be my guest. Excuse me tho, that IMO is being misinformed and a bit gullible. I could be wrong but I’ll stick with sound science.
So far you have compared squabbling on a message board to an abusive thought process and creating a toxic culture. I understand and it's plain to see you wish to make a huge deal out of something trivial by using exaggeration and hyperbole. But I'm a little disappointed by your lack of imagination. Why only reach for the moon in your zeal to create a huge deal about nothing? Why not reach for the stars instead? Like, I don't know, maybe by calling it domestic internet terrorism. If you're going to reach, at least go big.
So far you have compared squabbling on a message board to an abusive thought process and creating a toxic culture. I understand and it's plain to see you wish to make a huge deal out of something trivial by using exaggeration and hyperbole. But I'm a little disappointed by your lack of imagination. Why only reach for the moon in your zeal to create a huge deal about nothing? Why not reach for the stars instead? Like, I don't know, maybe by calling it domestic internet terrorism. If you're going to reach, at least go big.
And I see you minimalize your actions while trying to claim you own it, which you clearly do not.
Thinking people deserve your derision because they disagree with you is how abusers think. Own it or not, that doesn't change you think like an abuser and need help.
Ok doctor Fronz. You obviously have the credentials to diagnosis this. Or do you?
No he doesn't. He's a wannabe doctor and lawyer now. Being the embodiment and self fulfilling the very traits he describes in others. A classic case of deflection.
Ok doctor Fronz. You obviously have the credentials to diagnosis this. Or do you?
No he doesn't. He's a wannabe doctor and lawyer now. Being the embodiment and self fulfilling the very traits he describes in others. A classic case of deflection.
Not surprised you return to the fallacy of credentials combined with the ever popular fallacy of "you too."
That's deflection and shows a complete lack of ownership.
At first I thought you might do well to start your own psychic website. But then it dawned on me that self-fulfilling prophecies probably wouldn't qualify you in that category.
You mean the fact that a dangerous virus emerged from the same location as a lab that was studying the dangerous viruses? To be more specific, a lab that was studying the exact lineage.
The one that Biden finally ordered an investigation of; and your golden child Fauci said he is "no longer confident" it didn't come from?
The lab two miles from the outbreak? The one in which the US State Department expressed concerns over biosecurity for two years before?
. Just because you and 30% of all the Goper’s in the USA hate a renowned and worldwide respected scientist doesn’t make him a golden child. But I understand your mindset considering who’s your golden child. But please continue with the nonsense and unsubstantiated rumors.
At first I thought you might do well to start your own psychic website. But then it dawned on me that self-fulfilling prophecies probably wouldn't qualify you in that category.
. Just because you and 30% of all the Goper’s in the USA hate a renowned and worldwide respected scientist doesn’t make him a golden child. But I understand your mindset considering who’s your golden child. But please continue with the nonsense and unsubstantiated rumors.
Cue the lame meme.
First sentence makes no sense. Second is a lie. Third is a lie.
I didn't start any rumors -- a high ranking employee of Pfizer did. Did you miss that part?
I merely responded to the fact that his rumors were disturbing. Then I was told that those practices were acceptable and normal; when, in fact, they are illegal and dangerous. That's been the bulk of the conversation, besides your childish interjections.
Pfizer issued a statement saying they are not doing that. Now you say that because they refuted the claims, it must mean I am ignoring science.
Pfizer issued a statement saying they are not doing that. Now you say that because they refuted the claims, it must mean I am ignoring science.
Not ignoring it. You just don’t trust sound science. I understand your stance, there are lots of ya. I don’t trust the lot of you. I don’t think the lot of you know jack of what you’re talking about. I’ll trust the facts, the science and scientists and not buy into all these conspiracy theories thank you.
What in the world does "sound science" have to do with a Pfizer employee spewing rumors about his own company??
Trust all the facts and scientists you want. The fact is, a scientist from Pfizer said the company has considered doing gain-of-function research. Some other scientists from Pfizer basically said he was full of malarkey. Pick and choose as you see fit.
I guess this is just another episode that proves we should have more trust in science, especially given all the big words in Pfizer's statement. They did a great job of basically not confirming or denying most of what their employee said, and didn't even address the issue that an employee said it. I'm sold.
Isn't grasping at straws a trope? Asking for a friend. Everyone can see you.
Now it is the fallacy of "everyone". What's next in the sequence?
Nothing is next. My job is done here. I have already given you more time and attention than you deserve.
I kinda guessed it would be the "don't you understand English" one, then you'd be onto the last word one. But at least you seem to recognize you have a trope progression.
Not sure I know what you mean by "rumor and nothing more".
Is it true? I don't know, do you?
Are we supposed to take a press release from Pfizer, that doesn't even address what the employee said, as a fact? You do you.
But for the record, from the beginning I've said it was disturbing if it's true. That's when I was met with responses that there was nothing wrong with it.
Just based on his body language, gestures, eye rolling, and general giddyness, I don't see how he can be the director of anything, he acts like a crackpot.
Yet he has been the director under 7 different presidents and was appointed director in 1984 when Reagan was president. Nobody seemed to question his qualifications, abilities or demeanor until covid came along.
Yet he has been the director under 7 different presidents and was appointed director in 1984 when Reagan was president. Nobody seemed to question his qualifications, abilities or demeanor until covid came along.
Who are you talking about, I'm talking about the guy in the video, supposedly Director of Research or something at Phizer.
Just based on his body language, gestures, eye rolling, and general giddyness, I don't see how he can be the director of anything, he acts like a crackpot.
Which makes it even more strange that they haven't confirmed or denied his actual statements. If he's lying, wouldn't you just fire him? I would.
The article overstated the findings a little, but seems to be close enough, at least against the study summary. I've not dug into the actual data or the full study, and I'm not likely to.
That’s a mature response. Typical how the radical right has grasped our society. Where violence has replaced peaceful protesting and actually is promoted.
I said it was a very minor criminal offense? What is incorrect about that? Are you saying we shouldn't be thankful he wasn't shot? You're reaching again. And only seem to be able to use a stupid meme as a means to do it.
It's Time for the Scientific Community to Admit We Were Wrong About COVID and It Cost Lives
KEVIN BASS , MS MD/PHD STUDENT, MEDICAL SCHOOL ON 1/30/23 AT 8:00 AM EST
As a medical student and researcher, I staunchly supported the efforts of the public health authorities when it came to COVID-19. I believed that the authorities responded to the largest public health crisis of our lives with compassion, diligence, and scientific expertise. I was with them when they called for lockdowns, vaccines, and boosters.
I was wrong. We in the scientific community were wrong. And it cost lives.
I can see now that the scientific community from the CDC to the WHO to the FDA and their representatives, repeatedly overstated the evidence and misled the public about its own views and policies, including on natural vs. artificial immunity, school closures and disease transmission, aerosol spread, mask mandates, and vaccine effectiveness and safety, especially among the young. All of these were scientific mistakes at the time, not in hindsight. Amazingly, some of these obfuscations continue to the present day.
But perhaps more important than any individual error was how inherently flawed the overall approach of the scientific community was, and continues to be. It was flawed in a way that undermined its efficacy and resulted in thousands if not millions of preventable deaths.
What we did not properly appreciate is that preferences determine how scientific expertise is used, and that our preferences might be—indeed, our preferences were—very different from many of the people that we serve. We created policy based on our preferences, then justified it using data. And then we portrayed those opposing our efforts as misguided, ignorant, selfish, and evil.
We made science a team sport, and in so doing, we made it no longer science. It became us versus them, and "they" responded the only way anyone might expect them to: by resisting.
We excluded important parts of the population from policy development and castigated critics, which meant that we deployed a monolithic response across an exceptionally diverse nation, forged a society more fractured than ever, and exacerbated longstanding heath and economic disparities.
Our emotional response and ingrained partisanship prevented us from seeing the full impact of our actions on the people we are supposed to serve. We systematically minimized the downsides of the interventions we imposed—imposed without the input, consent, and recognition of those forced to live with them. In so doing, we violated the autonomy of those who would be most negatively impacted by our policies: the poor, the working class, small business owners, Blacks and Latinos, and children. These populations were overlooked because they were made invisible to us by their systematic exclusion from the dominant, corporatized media machine that presumed omniscience.
Most of us did not speak up in support of alternative views, and many of us tried to suppress them. When strong scientific voices like world-renowned Stanford professors John Ioannidis, Jay Bhattacharya, and Scott Atlas, or University of California San Francisco professors Vinay Prasad and Monica Gandhi, sounded the alarm on behalf of vulnerable communities, they faced severe censure by relentless mobs of critics and detractors in the scientific community—often not on the basis of fact but solely on the basis of differences in scientific opinion.
When former President Trump pointed out the downsides of intervention, he was dismissed publicly as a buffoon. And when Dr. Antony Fauci opposed Trump and became the hero of the public health community, we gave him our support to do and say what he wanted, even when he was wrong.
Trump was not remotely perfect, nor were the academic critics of consensus policy. But the scorn that we laid on them was a disaster for public trust in the pandemic response. Our approach alienated large segments of the population from what should have been a national, collaborative project.
And we paid the price. The rage of the those marginalized by the expert class exploded onto and dominated social media. Lacking the scientific lexicon to express their disagreement, many dissidents turned to conspiracy theories and a cottage industry of scientific contortionists to make their case against the expert class consensus that dominated the pandemic mainstream. Labeling this speech "misinformation" and blaming it on "scientific illiteracy" and "ignorance," the government conspired with Big Tech to aggressively suppress it, erasing the valid political concerns of the government's opponents.
And this despite the fact that pandemic policy was created by a razor-thin sliver of American society who anointed themselves to preside over the working class—members of academia, government, medicine, journalism, tech, and public health, who are highly educated and privileged. From the comfort of their privilege, this elite prizes paternalism, as opposed to average Americans who laud self-reliance and whose daily lives routinely demand that they reckon with risk. That many of our leaders neglected to consider the lived experience of those across the class divide is unconscionable.
Incomprehensible to us due to this class divide, we severely judged lockdown critics as lazy, backwards, even evil. We dismissed as "grifters" those who represented their interests. We believed "misinformation" energized the ignorant, and we refused to accept that such people simply had a different, valid point of view.
We crafted policy for the people without consulting them. If our public health officials had led with less hubris, the course of the pandemic in the United States might have had a very different outcome, with far fewer lost lives.
Instead, we have witnessed a massive and ongoing loss of life in America due to distrust of vaccines and the healthcare system; a massive concentration in wealth by already wealthy elites; a rise in suicides and gun violence especially among the poor; a near-doubling of the rate of depression and anxiety disorders especially among the young; a catastrophic loss of educational attainment among already disadvantaged children; and among those most vulnerable, a massive loss of trust in healthcare, science, scientific authorities, and political leaders more broadly.
My motivation for writing this is simple: It's clear to me that for public trust to be restored in science, scientists should publicly discuss what went right and what went wrong during the pandemic, and where we could have done better.
It's OK to be wrong and admit where one was wrong and what one learned. That's a central part of the way science works. Yet I fear that many are too entrenched in groupthink—and too afraid to publicly take responsibility—to do this.
Solving these problems in the long term requires a greater commitment to pluralism and tolerance in our institutions, including the inclusion of critical if unpopular voices.
Intellectual elitism, credentialism, and classism must end. Restoring trust in public health—and our democracy—depends on it.
Kevin Bass is an MD/PhD student at a medical school in Texas. He is in his 7th year.
The views expressed in this article are the writer's own.
So we should be inclusive in our covid debates with Trump in office acting a fool, lying his ass off, and every die-hard Trump supporter being systemically turned against science? Watching all that unfold resembled the unclean masses of superstitious, uneducated peasants during medieval times protesting bathing. Why the hell would they apologize for calling out the ridiculousness and insulting anti-logic oozing from the darkest regions of the far right while we were trying to save lives and the country? Snowflakes who brought zero value to the table and easily cost more lives than science ever could with their idiocy. These people made a political thing out of their personal health! I had two extended family members pass just like this, and because they loved them some Trump right up to the day they died of covid unvaxxed... This is who they apologized to for not taking them seriously or pandering to their idiocy? This country is a wreck.
A take a med student in Texas opinions seriously over the entire collective medical and scientific world? Really?…… Oh yeah his opinions fit your own false narrative, nevermind.
No, they allowed a college student to act as if he's qualified to question the entire scientific community. You managed to dig it up, seem surprised it was even published and act as though that's a legitimate claim that should somehow be taken seriously.
I know it doesn't fit the narrative, so I can understand the faux outrage from your clan.
If you don't think "the community" turned science into a team sport and shunned and blacklisted all who opposed... well, you must have slept through COVID.
If you don't think that did damage to the public's perception and trust in 'science', you're either not that smart or in denial. I know denial is easy when you can just blame a certain group (your bogeymen), if that's how you wish to live life -- more power to you.
See, you were trying to say it should be taken seriously. The damage to the public's perception and trust in 'science' was manufactured and perpetrated on society by disseminating misinformation just as you did. It's not a boogeyman. So keep up the good work.
It's Time for the Scientific Community to Admit We Were Wrong About COVID and It Cost Lives
KEVIN BASS , MS MD/PHD STUDENT, MEDICAL SCHOOL ON 1/30/23 AT 8:00 AM EST
As a medical student and researcher, I staunchly supported the efforts of the public health authorities when it came to COVID-19. I believed that the authorities responded to the largest public health crisis of our lives with compassion, diligence, and scientific expertise. I was with them when they called for lockdowns, vaccines, and boosters.
I was wrong. We in the scientific community were wrong. And it cost lives.
I can see now that the scientific community from the CDC to the WHO to the FDA and their representatives, repeatedly overstated the evidence and misled the public about its own views and policies, including on natural vs. artificial immunity, school closures and disease transmission, aerosol spread, mask mandates, and vaccine effectiveness and safety, especially among the young. All of these were scientific mistakes at the time, not in hindsight. Amazingly, some of these obfuscations continue to the present day.
But perhaps more important than any individual error was how inherently flawed the overall approach of the scientific community was, and continues to be. It was flawed in a way that undermined its efficacy and resulted in thousands if not millions of preventable deaths.
What we did not properly appreciate is that preferences determine how scientific expertise is used, and that our preferences might be—indeed, our preferences were—very different from many of the people that we serve. We created policy based on our preferences, then justified it using data. And then we portrayed those opposing our efforts as misguided, ignorant, selfish, and evil.
We made science a team sport, and in so doing, we made it no longer science. It became us versus them, and "they" responded the only way anyone might expect them to: by resisting.
We excluded important parts of the population from policy development and castigated critics, which meant that we deployed a monolithic response across an exceptionally diverse nation, forged a society more fractured than ever, and exacerbated longstanding heath and economic disparities.
Our emotional response and ingrained partisanship prevented us from seeing the full impact of our actions on the people we are supposed to serve. We systematically minimized the downsides of the interventions we imposed—imposed without the input, consent, and recognition of those forced to live with them. In so doing, we violated the autonomy of those who would be most negatively impacted by our policies: the poor, the working class, small business owners, Blacks and Latinos, and children. These populations were overlooked because they were made invisible to us by their systematic exclusion from the dominant, corporatized media machine that presumed omniscience.
Most of us did not speak up in support of alternative views, and many of us tried to suppress them. When strong scientific voices like world-renowned Stanford professors John Ioannidis, Jay Bhattacharya, and Scott Atlas, or University of California San Francisco professors Vinay Prasad and Monica Gandhi, sounded the alarm on behalf of vulnerable communities, they faced severe censure by relentless mobs of critics and detractors in the scientific community—often not on the basis of fact but solely on the basis of differences in scientific opinion.
When former President Trump pointed out the downsides of intervention, he was dismissed publicly as a buffoon. And when Dr. Antony Fauci opposed Trump and became the hero of the public health community, we gave him our support to do and say what he wanted, even when he was wrong.
Trump was not remotely perfect, nor were the academic critics of consensus policy. But the scorn that we laid on them was a disaster for public trust in the pandemic response. Our approach alienated large segments of the population from what should have been a national, collaborative project.
And we paid the price. The rage of the those marginalized by the expert class exploded onto and dominated social media. Lacking the scientific lexicon to express their disagreement, many dissidents turned to conspiracy theories and a cottage industry of scientific contortionists to make their case against the expert class consensus that dominated the pandemic mainstream. Labeling this speech "misinformation" and blaming it on "scientific illiteracy" and "ignorance," the government conspired with Big Tech to aggressively suppress it, erasing the valid political concerns of the government's opponents.
And this despite the fact that pandemic policy was created by a razor-thin sliver of American society who anointed themselves to preside over the working class—members of academia, government, medicine, journalism, tech, and public health, who are highly educated and privileged. From the comfort of their privilege, this elite prizes paternalism, as opposed to average Americans who laud self-reliance and whose daily lives routinely demand that they reckon with risk. That many of our leaders neglected to consider the lived experience of those across the class divide is unconscionable.
Incomprehensible to us due to this class divide, we severely judged lockdown critics as lazy, backwards, even evil. We dismissed as "grifters" those who represented their interests. We believed "misinformation" energized the ignorant, and we refused to accept that such people simply had a different, valid point of view.
We crafted policy for the people without consulting them. If our public health officials had led with less hubris, the course of the pandemic in the United States might have had a very different outcome, with far fewer lost lives.
Instead, we have witnessed a massive and ongoing loss of life in America due to distrust of vaccines and the healthcare system; a massive concentration in wealth by already wealthy elites; a rise in suicides and gun violence especially among the poor; a near-doubling of the rate of depression and anxiety disorders especially among the young; a catastrophic loss of educational attainment among already disadvantaged children; and among those most vulnerable, a massive loss of trust in healthcare, science, scientific authorities, and political leaders more broadly.
My motivation for writing this is simple: It's clear to me that for public trust to be restored in science, scientists should publicly discuss what went right and what went wrong during the pandemic, and where we could have done better.
It's OK to be wrong and admit where one was wrong and what one learned. That's a central part of the way science works. Yet I fear that many are too entrenched in groupthink—and too afraid to publicly take responsibility—to do this.
Solving these problems in the long term requires a greater commitment to pluralism and tolerance in our institutions, including the inclusion of critical if unpopular voices.
Intellectual elitism, credentialism, and classism must end. Restoring trust in public health—and our democracy—depends on it.
Kevin Bass is an MD/PhD student at a medical school in Texas. He is in his 7th year.
The views expressed in this article are the writer's own.
I too am surprised it was allowed to be published.
Consider the sources credentials.
"Kevin Bass is an MD/PhD student at a medical school in Texas. He is in his 7th year."
No professional who chooses to voice an opinion obscures their background.
He made up word salad and offered no clarity on the consequences of alternative actions.
In simple terms, he is a blithering buffoon.
Everyone will second guess and postulate alternative responses to the pandemic. Those such inclined will be able to model outcomes of alternative scenarios.
That wont change the fact that over a million people in the US died because of COVID.
We did some things right, such as getting the vaccine into production. That saved lives.
We did many things wrong, and it was an open tussle that became a conflict between science and politics.
If we are smart we will learn from this and be in a better position next time.
If we are not so smart, we will continue to complain about the failings of the past and offer no concrete alternatives.
All you have to know is that if we consider Scott Atlas as an alternative voice, you are indeed an idiot.
I am going to try and provide a bit more detail about the underlying issue with herd immunity and the concept of targeted herd immunity.
There are a couple of items that I think have merit on the surface, but when you look at the consequential impacts, they just don't pan out, meaning that the total loss of life would have been far greater.
Herd immunity means that you let the virus spread through the community, everyone gets it, some die, most do not. Those who do survive, has natural resistance that will protect them into the future. That is fine, but you will expose everyone. And even though you get immunity, there will be reinfection. With reinfection there is a lower probability of dying, but ultimately everyone has to get the disease.
Targeted herd immunity, means that you let those who are most unlikely to die (young), get the virus, and you develop their own immunity.
The problem is you can't really isolate a unlikely to die population (young) from a more likely to die population (old). There will be co-mingling between young and old and transmission is inevitable.
So what do you do to make targeted herd immunity work. You have to keep the young away from the old.
But in that scenario everyone eventually gets it.
Now what actually happened is that because of the vaccine those who were most at risk (old) were given immunity as if they had the disease.
What we did not do well was recognize that those who got the disease were far less at risk after they recovered. The whole vaccine card issue did not make much sense if you had recovered from the disease. It made a lot of sense if you had not had the disease.
What we did not do well was address masks and transmission of the disease.
If you recall even our efforts to slow the spread still had hospitals overrun with patients. So under a targeted herd immunity scenario, the challenges faced by hospitals would have been worse, leading to a greater loss of life across for everyone infected.
We have sort of reached a level of herd immunity now. Either by getting the disease or getting the vaccine.
There are people that never had COVID and others who have had it 3 or 4 times. It really is a matter of surviving the first go around with the disease or getting the vaccine that makes the difference. If you did not get the vaccine, and got the disease you it was going to be a long recovery.
And then the internet's underbelly started to produce false doubts about covid vaccines and modern medicine... The whole damn republican party is under the sway of Russian puppets, fascist wannabes, and brainless buffoons. Can you imagine any GOPer falling for the truth in 23? Nope. Because they are so far gone, they couldn't recognize the truth if it drove a semi up their asses. Twenty-five years ago, no republican would have fallen for all the crap today's Rs have fallen for. You damn sure would never have heard praise for Putin and Russia back then. I'm at the point of telling ordinary republicans they are traitors for continuing to support a party so notorious as to have attempted a fascist coup d'etat, trying to install a dystopian autocracy under a very real Manchurian Candidate, and attacking the core institutions that formed the backbone of American greatness/success over the last two hundred and forty-six years. Or to become Russian-praising, Putin-loving, and far-right American politicians so unfit for office that your party becomes a laughing stock, so choc-full-of-nuts that nobody takes them remotely serious, and expounding complete and utter BS at every turn, running their mouths just to be sure to keep the water muddy.
Ahhh the dream that COVID is over… as I lay here in bed about to get up to face my day where I’ll be going to see two COVID patients this morning. One who’s at home with their entire family suffering from it. The other in a care facility that at last count had at least 12 other residents doing battle, along with a bunch of the staff. I’ll also be texting my buddy in a couple hours to check in on him as he and his entire household have it. He’s been off of work for the past week because of it. He’s a maintenance guy for an assisted living facility. They have a massive outbreak in that building right now.
I went to that link. As soon as there was ‘herd immunity’ talk I stopped. There is no herd immunity with COVID. Period. So anything after that is not worth being discussed.
Twitter has the right to sensor anyone they want. They use cdc guidelines. Tough luck. If these Doctors think they can get free speech for $8 a mo., well then they’re a bunch of quacks.
Yep. My vaccinated son just caught it from a coworker (vax status unknown) who came to work with the sniffles. This is his fourth time having it in two and a half years. And did I mention he's vaxxed? His dumbass only got the first two though, because he figures he has natural immunity now. I asked him how that worked out for him; he wasn't amused.
What I do know is that I am highly compromised with my comorbidities. Yet, unless they misdiagnosed influenza 'A' that almost killed me (doctors talking vent) just a few weeks before the covid threat was known to be in America, the complete vax regiment has protected me and kept me from getting covid. Or if I did have it at any point, I didn't know because I never became ill.
Well, herd immunity was first mentioned about 3/4 of the way into the article, so at least you got that far.
No comment on Dr's, and professors opinions? Or, is it a political thing for you?
Not political. I agree that some aspects of the lockdowns were not great for society or business. That said, proclaiming that letting all the younglings and healthy folk run free to catch COVID and build herd immunity should have been the plan, is asinine as herd immunity isn’t a thing as it pertains to COVID. In turn it makes the rest of what’s said appear to come from a ‘political’ place and not one of actual public health.
Well perfect, that short little post generated three thoughts for me. First, all freedom loving Americans should be grateful that you are not in charge of who can speak and what they can say. Actually I think most Americans are grateful that no one is in charge of who can speak and what they can say. Thank you founding fathers for that great first amendment!!!
Second, what is the charge for being able to exercise free speech?? It isn’t $8 obviously but what is it??
Third, you are being deliberately deceptive when you say a private company can do what they want because as you know that is not what happened. “They use cdc guidelines” sounds so innocent and innocuous. What really happened was reps from the cdc, and other alphabet agencies met with twitter execs on a regular basis. They would bring a list at accounts that the feds did not like. They wanted twitter to minimize their exposure to people, block them, make sure those accounts did not see the light of day. Soon thereafter the cdc would receive the email, “dealt with”. Hmm. When a company does it at the behest of the feds sounds like censorship to me.
Picture this. It is 50 years ago, early 70’s. Neil Sheehan is preparing a series of articles based upon Ellsburg’s pentagon papers for the New York Times. Gonna be a huge story ! The White House gets wind of it so they dispatch H.R Halderman to the publisher of the Times. H.R tells them how dangerous these papers are, how they will jeopardize national interest, and that these articles need to be stopped, never see the light of day. By the time H.R got back to the White House an “email” was waiting…”dealt with”…….lol. Right!!!! Not really. Actually Halderman would have gotten his answer immediately. Not dealt with , but “you can stick that request where the Sun don’t shine. Because back then liberals valued free speech. Now the looney lefties only value it for themselves . Sad!
You know fate, some folk’s life philosophy is I’ve already made up my mind don’t confuse me with the facts.
What is really ironic is the number of times the cdc had twitter sensor people who down the road turned out to be 100% correct. I remember the Stanford doc whose twitter account was blocked at the behest of the cdc. Why? Because he argued that closing schools would have little/no effect on the virus but would set kids education back terribly, maybe irreparably. He was right.
The researchers who were referencing studies showing that natural immunity is far stronger and and longer lasting than vaccine acquired immunity. They were censored and they were right.
They just released a compilation of data suggesting that mask wearing had minimal effect on the virus. Preliminary results to be sure but if that came out a year ago it would have been censored.
Twitter is a private company and has the right to serve or not to serve anyone they want. Don’t like it, sue ‘em. It’s not my policy pal. They are the ones charging people for what they say is a freedom of speech not me. I have no idea why anyone would use that platform anyways. Regular doctors and scientists reached the masses by other means all the time before twitter. And throwing out that twitter has censored doctors, scientists and others that turned out to be 100% correct without naming 1 is how misinformation starts.
Exactly. why real doctors and scientists shy away from all that moronic twitter nonsense.
Not a user. but as I understand it…Twitter charges $8 a mo for verification. Accounts verified by twitter are usually celebrities, politicians, and other professionals that the common unverified free twitter users follow.
I never implied that at all, sorry if that’s the way you understood it. Verification costs $8 a mo. for what twitter calls free speech. That’s what I said earlier.
Quote
They are the ones charging people for what they say is a freedom of speech not me.
They love to skirt around the fact that freedom of speech only applies to Congress shall make no law...abridging freedom of speech. It's so convenient for them to ignore that to make an argument that doesn't exists.
Last time I checked congress passed no law to infringe on free speech and neither the CDC nor any social media company is the congress.
The 1st Amendment "Freedom of Speech" only says the Government can't arrest you for what you say. It doesn't protect you from consequences of what you say, such as getting kicked off twitter. A private company can manage however they see fit. But they also have to face the consequences of that. They silenced voices on the right, so now their reputation is in the trash.
You know fate, some folk’s life philosophy is I’ve already made up my mind don’t confuse me with the facts.
What is really ironic is the number of times the cdc had twitter sensor people who down the road turned out to be 100% correct. I remember the Stanford doc whose twitter account was blocked at the behest of the cdc. Why? Because he argued that closing schools would have little/no effect on the virus but would set kids education back terribly, maybe irreparably. He was right.
The researchers who were referencing studies showing that natural immunity is far stronger and and longer lasting than vaccine acquired immunity. They were censored and they were right.
They just released a compilation of data suggesting that mask wearing had minimal effect on the virus. Preliminary results to be sure but if that came out a year ago it would have been censored.
I hear ya. I see what you are saying. I just can't get over Republicans politicizing medical life-saving measures during a pandemic with a disease no one knew anything about that was dropping people like flies at the time. And now seeing grown-ass men cry months or years later about being treated poorly, like the children having an endless tantrum and screaming unfair for being corrected when they were blatantly wrong. Where I come from, you'd be told to grow a set, man up, and shut up. I guess that's where you think your rights are being infringed upon. Yeah, screw my right to not die because you want to be a tantrum-throwing Trumpian during a pandemic. Pfft, you can't make this crap up.
The 1st Amendment "Freedom of Speech" only says the Government can't arrest you for what you say. It doesn't protect you from consequences of what you say, such as getting kicked off twitter. A private company can manage however they see fit. But they also have to face the consequences of that. They silenced voices on the right, so now their reputation is in the trash.
If my reputation was in the trash because all of the Trumpians in the world were mad at me... I would consider that a job WELL DONE. And whoever handled that work while Trump was trying to overthrow the government should be given a congressional medal of honor.
But this was only 65 studies from 19 different countries, from a trusted global health journal. Suggesting that natural immunity, as has been demonstrated since the beginning of mankind, is better than a man-made vaccine... is ludicrous. Anyone believing that -- before, during or after it becoming fact -- should be stoned.
But this was only 65 studies from 19 different countries, from a trusted global health journal. Suggesting that natural immunity, as has been demonstrated since the beginning of mankind, is better than a man-made vaccine... is ludicrous. Anyone believing that -- before, during or after it becoming fact -- should be stoned.
Ok, so how many millions would have had to die to get there? To get to herd immunity? You armchair scientists astound thinking people.
‘Natural (temporary) immunity’ means your dumb ass caught it. Who wants to get sick so that they can’t get sick for a little while?!
Wear a knz95 mask. Problem solved. No sickness. No need for getting sick to get a couple month reprieve from getting sick. No need for a vaccine either, really.
But this was only 65 studies from 19 different countries, from a trusted global health journal. Suggesting that natural immunity, as has been demonstrated since the beginning of mankind, is better than a man-made vaccine... is ludicrous. Anyone believing that -- before, during or after it becoming fact -- should be stoned.
Ok, so how many millions would have had to die to get there? To get to herd immunity? You armchair scientists astound thinking people.
Nobody said anything about herd immunity. Nobody said we could reach herd immunity by ignoring vaccines.
Two years ago, any scientist that made any reference to the virtues of natural immunity was doxed and canceled. Now it's an acceptable fact. Not because it's some incredible breakthrough, because you can no longer fit all of the facts under the rug.
You're playing armchair FG kicker, moving the goalposts, and still missing the kick.
Maybe you could at least give us your definition of "doxed and canceled"? And usually when someone makes such an accusation, it's up to them to prove their point. Not tell someone else to prove it for them. Just sayin'.
Do your own homework or join hands in your circle jerk and call me crazy. Either is fine. You guys still have your fingers in your ears as nearly every COVID "conspiracy theory" has come true. No more energy for amateur hour.
Here are roughly 10 after a 5 minute search. This isn't hard to do, there are PLENTY of other situations, and you all know it. You aren't fooling anyone. All of these people were discredited, cancelled, shunned in their professional community and in the public because they didn't follow the designed narrative during the " "Trust The Science" virtual signaling.
I'm not so sure some of these things mean what you think they mean. If a company or university sets a requirement for employment how is firing someone who refuses to follow that policy wrong? And as far as "choosing natural immunity" goes, what about the risk that places other people in? We all know certain age groups and those who are immune compromised have far higher risks for death. So how is it that when your choice endangers those around you it should be accepted? And why do you think a business should be required to allow anyone to use their service when they have the right to refuse anyone service if it's not based on race or religion?
I mean it's not as though I don't understand the point you're trying to make because I do. I'm just not sure why so many object to trying to keep the number of deaths from Covid to a minimum. I just don't think that keeping everyone on the same page when fighting against what was an extremely deadly virus at that point in time was nefarious. Sending mixed signals to society would have only served to add confusion. As we also saw, some of the crazy conspiracy theories that surrounded the virus and vaccine did enough damage.
You asked for examples of doxxed and cancelled. I quickly, and easily, gave you a list after a few minutes' search. Now you want to redefine what you asked for and what those terms really mean? Haha, that is, as you well know, moving the goalposts.
"Choosing natural immunity" keeps entering every COVID conversation. I've never, ever, ever (and I've said this many times on here) said people should choose natural immunity. If you were one of the 100 million+ who already had COVID before the vaccine, you didn't choose anything; the virus made the choice for you.
From that point forward, studies from all over the globe were pointing to the validity of natural immunity (compared to vaccine) as a means of protection for those that have already been infected. From the very beginning, before any studies were even done, the EU vaccine 'passport' allowed travel for those who had recovered... because it was grounded in science.
In the US we gave no thought to allowing such behavior and claimed it was ignoring science.
One point of view was influenced by hundreds of years of science. The other had no scientific basis was based solely on politics.
Those who 'disobeyed' or used their own choice based on their own individual considerations were: sequestered longer, fired, not allowed admission, kicked-out, blacklisted and here at DT, actually blamed for the virus itself.
I think the problem with at least some of what you posted is that many of those people that were " fired, not allowed admission, kicked-out" wasn't about already having had Covid for the most part. Most of the time was simply by refusing to be vaccinated at all. Any time you work for an employer there are terms, requirements and conditions for your employment. I don't doubt that there were cases that you are correct about in terms of having already contracting Covid. But by and large I think that's incorrect.
We heard every conspiracy theory in the books about the vaccine itself and many of the people here that you are referencing were simply refusing to be vaccinated, period. For the most part it had nothing to do with whether they had previously had Covid or not.
"Choosing natural immunity" keeps entering every COVID conversation. I've never, ever, ever (and I've said this many times on here) said people should choose natural immunity. If you were one of the 100 million+ who already had COVID before the vaccine, you didn't choose anything; the virus made the choice for you.
From that point forward, studies from all over the globe were pointing to the validity of natural immunity (compared to vaccine) as a means of protection for those that have already been infected. From the very beginning, before any studies were even done, the EU vaccine 'passport' allowed travel for those who had recovered... because it was grounded in science.
In the US we gave no thought to allowing such behavior and claimed it was ignoring science.
One point of view was influenced by hundreds of years of science. The other had no scientific basis was based solely on politics.
Those who 'disobeyed' or used their own choice based on their own individual considerations were: sequestered longer, fired, not allowed admission, kicked-out, blacklisted and here at DT, actually blamed for the virus itself.
Here are roughly 10 after a 5 minute search. This isn't hard to do, there are PLENTY of other situations, and you all know it. You aren't fooling anyone. All of these people were discredited, cancelled, shunned in their professional community and in the public because they didn't follow the designed narrative during the " "Trust The Science" virtual signaling.
And still not a single scientist named here. Now who’s moving the goalpost again?
unlike the rest of those in this forum.![[Linked Image from i.pinimg.com]](https://i.pinimg.com/originals/6e/9a/6a/6e9a6a673710b0d8411db4c81937e2a3.jpg)
![[Linked Image from i.ibb.co]](https://i.ibb.co/b34sB4D/67608-AF0-9-FE8-4-F4-C-98-D1-4-F4-F849-A3-AC5.jpg)
![[Linked Image from miro.medium.com]](https://miro.medium.com/max/1400/1*TEi7cuPtnnIRKdKZKlwxXg.gif)
![[Linked Image from i.imgflip.com]](https://i.imgflip.com/790hni.jpg)
But please continue with the nonsense and unsubstantiated rumors.![[Linked Image from media.tenor.com]](https://media.tenor.com/YZ4qE-wYyuAAAAAM/confused-so.gif)
![[Linked Image from lawliberty.org]](https://lawliberty.org/app/uploads/2022/07/shutterstock_1745189954-scaled.jpg)
![[Linked Image from media.giphy.com]](https://media.giphy.com/media/yr7n0u3qzO9nG/giphy.gif)