1.) Our defense stops them and Baltimore makes a stupid decision to try a 58 yard field goal. They miss, we profit and get a decent drive going... 40 seconds left we get past midfield and the clock is ticking. We have 2 timeouts to use. I'm screaming "CALL A TIMEOUT" over and over. - You would think, with a young inexperienced quarterback who didn't start, who is playing well, shouldn't be rushed when he's in field goal range. He should be able to call a freaking timeout, discuss a strategy with his coach, calm his nerves, etc. Instead this idiot of a coach has this young team hurry to the line, it's no surprise that one of these young players jumps offsides with the clock running down to 29 seconds, and there we were... Instead of 40 seconds on the clock with the ball around their 40 yard line and 1 timeout we went to 29 seconds on the clock with the ball on their 45 yard line and one timeout. The young qb is now frustrated, not focused and of course throws a pick. -- Now Baltimore is certain to get their field goal that they missed less than 30 seconds earlier and even worse, given time and downs to score a touchdown. - Which they of course do. Hugh Jackson has demonstrated that he knows a thing or two about offense, but at this point he is hurting our team.
2.) He hugged one of their players in the middle of the game as we were losing 14-0. I MEAN FOR REAL! ??! What kind of garbage example is this man setting to our players. COULD ANY OF YOU IMAGINE John Harbaugh or Mike Tomlin hugging one of our players while losing 14-0. I mean seriously!

I didn't like the hug, but Hue should be given a lot more time.

Changing coaches is not the answer.

We just need an OC.

Calm down and have another beer. It's Week 2. The coach isn't going anywhere. The QB and his migraine are young. It's the first road game for these guys. SMH

You can't fix stupid!!! We have fired coach after coach. GM after GM. How has that worked out for us?

We are the youngest team in the NFL, you can see a change in the talent level, but this will take a little time, firing the coach after 2 years just puts us farther behind ... JMHO

I can live with Hue for another year or two , BUT I want an OC !

No.

.

Furthermore, why didn't Hue throw the challenge flag on the Duke Johnson touchdown? I guess he figured our rookie qb would have no problem punching it in... I mean, the guy threw a challenge flag last week on a far riskier replay and cost us 2 crucial timeouts in the process - he might be the worst hc we've had here since Pat Shurmur Honestly.

Also, How nice must it be to be a steelers or ravens fan, knowing that year in and year out you get to play the biggest laughingstock in football. I mean the stupidity that goes along with this team is never-ending. We're 0-2 and the best we can hope for this year is 2-3 wins. Have a nice season watching this joke. This is the last game I'll watch this year.

Not throwing the challenge flag on Dukes run after all the other stuff he challenges is pretty egregious.

He's growing like the rest of the team. Gotta live with those mistakes.

Stay the course. Keep evaluating your QB'S determining if you need to draft one.

If anything an O coordinator could be considered.

" considered "

Demanded !

Agreed

Hasn't even been two years yet.

We have a great O coordinator. We need a head coach. The constant delay of games, the garbage discipline, hugging Lee Suggs. - Dude needs to go.

Lee Suggs played today? Lord mercy, talk about a comeback!

I think that is the problem. Hue has to focus so much on play calling that he can't pay attention to the big picture. I am sure that there is a coach assigned to looking at that and suggesting things but either that guy needs to be replaced, the communication process needs to be fixed or this guy doesn't exist and Hue is trying to do too much on his own.

j/c:

That took long.

See my sig.

I'm not for any changes in the future. Just let Hue do it. Let Kizer keep learning. Today was a ROUGH day. But we've had those before. Let's hope it gets better.

Worst. Post. Ever.

I am getting close, this guy keeps making stupid decisions.

Add in we need a new offensive coordinator, and we need to questions Hues love afair with Kizer? Hogan was moving the team and scoring points after the "Kiz" left with a headache.


A headache, are you kidding me???


The "Kiz" only came back after he saw Hogan moving the team.


A headache??? Are you kidding me?? LOL


Coach....I have a headache.....seriously, is that a wimp or what? A friggen headache....


Bench him....he sucks

Even Worse. Post. Ever.

Definitely don't fire him but get him an OC. And buy some stickum!

"When the fans booed me, it really hurt my psyche."

Ask Terrelle Davis, who went into a game with a migraine, even though he couldn't see anything about "headaches"

Sorry man, that doesn't even make sense. What are you trying to say? Give it a second try.

Keep this coach. Cut Britt. Hogan.

Kizer is a turnover factory.

Oh great one, you who elevates yourself and has a much higher intellect than those you choose to judge. Please enlighten us oh great one. Why are mine and 'Peen's post not keeping in your standards of high quality posts?

Hue could have stayed with Hogan and saved face as a migraine would be a viable excuse to use to keep the kid on the bench.

Kizer sure looks like an inaccurate and overrated starter.

I keep wondering if Kizer equals Kessler the Inactive V. 2. Overrated, underprepared IMO.
I expect reasonable mistakes while learning. Worse this week by far. Now we argue who is the worst. QB controversy of the worst kind.

Get an OC. This cluster of mistakes is beyond learning curve. Kizer sits.

Because it's Week friggin' 2 of the season, to comment any further would simply be a waste of key strokes.

And then for a grown man to mock any kind of pain someone else is dealing with is even worse - hence, "Even worse" post ever.

And please, cool it with the snarky name calling.

And if Hue had stayed w/Hogan [after it was already announced that Kize was cleared to return] and we got our butts handed to us...............people would be screaming about how could Hue ruin his rookie QBs confidence and how he was ruining the kid.

I wanted Hogan to stay in because the team moved the ball better w/him. He doesn't hold the ball forever like Kize does. However, no way could Hue do that. He had to return to Kize.

Some of us [guys like Deputy and me] recognized the dangers of naming Kize the starter during preseason. They pretty much have to roll w/him now.

Bard, you are very cool............but this loss had ZERO to do w/not having an OC. ZERO!

I saw it as well. The guy isn't ready, Hogan is.

Bad choice by the coach.

I agree with you that it's only week 2 however, we were lucky to win ONE game last year and lost a couple on account of bad coaching. With a better head coach, we could be 2-0 right now, certainly 1-1. Based on the idiocy I saw today, my patience is gone. If we're 4-2 in about a month, you have my permission to recall this post and shove it in my face. Now don't go calling this the "3rd worst post ever".

I said it in preseason too, let DK sit awhile he's too young. Let him sit until mid-season or so and learn then ease him in for the 2nd half. I still believe he can be our QB of the future it will just take time. Also, there is no need to fire Hue. He's got growing pains too and is learning along with his players. Patience.

Well in fairness, it's just one guy Vers, the thread creator. The overwhelming amount of posts that followed are in favour of Hue continuity.

In any demographic of people, you are gonna get muppet behaviour. I'm only surprised i didn't see this thread last season

People probably said this last year too and we all know how that turned out.

No benefit to firing a coach two games into the season..... At least let him play it out.


I have been thinking about how I'd like us to get an offensive coordinator though. Not necessarily one calling plays, but at least someone in charge of the offense. I was thinking that when I saw the Bengals O-Coordinator get fired. Hue's gotta know someone though.



As for Kizer. It's one bad game. And you couldn't just keep playing Hogan. Kizer said he could play, then he has to play. Better or worse. Hue committed to him at the beginning of the season, and you don't want to wreck Kizer's confidence by taking away his job after a few series. He said that we were sticking with Kizer. Hasn't changed course.

Let's see how things look next week........

I can't think of anything the Browns should do less. If they ever want to have a winning season any time soon that is. That strategy has been tried about 12 times over already. It is a surefire recipe for failure.

Not even close to compareable.

This thread is stupid

Week 2.. is this a record?

no, i said fire pat shurmur at his opening press conference

Why ask him? I don't care about him. I couldn't care less to be honest.

I care about the fact our QB took himself out of the game. Hue didn't look at him and say. "Hey Bro, I can tell you have a headache".

Kizer's a wimp. I don't need to see any more.

I try to forget about Mr. 'We Battled.'

For reference....

Percy Harvin: On August 19, 2010, he passed out during practice due to a migraine attack and was taken to a local hospital in an ambulance.

Link

Reports: Ohio State QB Cardale Jones taken to hospital with migraine

Link

‘You Can’t Put Ice Over a Migraine,’ a Lurking Malady in the N.F.L.

Article

Kubiak, 55, was taken to a hospital by ambulance Sunday because of flu symptoms after the Broncos’ 23-16 loss to the Atlanta Falcons at Sports Authority Field at Mile High. He was hospitalized overnight and was diagnosed with “a complex migraine condition that caused extreme fatigue and body weakness,”

Article

No concussion, but DeShone Kizer has migraine history

Article

Coach said he took him out

On Johnson's run, the Ravens called a timeout. There was plenty of time to review replay and throw the flag but none of the views showed his outside foot, so the call would have stood.

In the end, sure, the coach takes him out.

I didn't know Kizer had a history of migrains.....great.

I thought migrains lasted a long time? Maybe someone who suffers from them can fill me in. He was out maybe 2 series, the 2 series where we actually scored points.

LOL, OCD! I am just remembering the stickum scene in the movie The Replacements. That was funny. Thanks for the grins; you get an assist.

I really want to know: Have we run analytics on Coach J? His game handling stinks fairly regularly. I see a lot of learning mentioned, but I don't see learning. We looked worse this week, and the Rats aren't vastly superior.

Just aggravated I am.

Migraines are pretty awful. I get blurred vision, nausea, and it's hard to concentrate at all. Physical exertion makes them much worse for me. Luckily I don't get them often.

Kizer was out a while given that he missed at least most of the 2nd and part of the third. I'm guessing they have him some IV fluids and pain killers. That may be why he came back.

I suffer from cluster headaches, which are not exactly what Kizer claimed to have, but the same symptoms.

Anyways, they can last for as little as 30-90 minutes ... so there is a chance Kizer's symptoms did subside, especially with the aid of medication (I'm sure they have access to the best/fastest working).

When I get a severe headache it pretty much knocks you down ... wanting to throw up, sleep, or even die. IF that's what he was feeling, then by no means can he play effectively or at all.

My sis in law gets them 3 - 5 times a month. They usually last 8 - 24 hours ... she lays down in complete quiet with her eyes closed ...

Sometimes she can feel them coming on and takes pills and stays still and quiet for 30 mins she's fine ...

Maybe thats what happend ... who really knows, the human body is so complex and were all just slightly different ... who knows ...

I feel bad for the kid ...

I'd like to add...I've had migraines as well. Bad ones. Completely debilitating. I used to get a few with aura, which essentially created a huge blind spot in one of my eyes. It was really weird. I started reading something and then all of a sudden, I couldn't read the words on the page. After that, worst headache ever came.

They can be legit.

I know they are legit. I just thought they lasted a long time. Not 30 minutes.

I guess I am lucky. I would get a headache now and then as a kid, but it's probably been 50 years since I have had one.

Don't knock DK for taking himself out. If he had a migraine, and I believe he did, he could not have played. My father got them and they are awful to deal with. Debilitating is the word.

I'm not advocating firing him, but maybe it's time to bring in an OC and let him extend his focus to the entire team and to the game on all sides when the offense is, or isn't playing.

We're so bad right now.

Let's be real... Hogan gave us a chance and was stripped away by it.

This is the type of knee jerk reaction I expected.

These types of games are going to happen with a rookie quarterback and a young team.

What is important is to see how they react.

Once this team was handed over to Kizer to lead; you have to accept that games like this will happen.

This team should improve as weeks goes by.

If you don't see that then we have a problem. This year is part of a process.

Mine I get a shimmering light that starts covering part of my field of vision. It continues to grow, this is before any headache begins. Take meds quickly drink gatoriade and I can avoid most of the pain.

Problem is, it takes a few hours before I get through the nausea, eyes clean, and pain stops but even after that, the brain doesn't process like it normally does. Your brain works differently, its slower, you may pickup the tv remote and put it in your pocket instead of your cell phone.

The eyesight and decision making part is really bad for a QB. You gotta process all that's happening and with a migrane, you just aren't doing it. That slow brain process lasts for days afterwards.

Hue has left me scratching my head sometimes.

Young inexperience players, and all the shifts and formations etc. why is Britt still playing and getting time? Where has Kasen Williams been? His play calling and time management is questionable to say the least at times.

HOWEVER - I do not think we can deny that the players seem to love playing for him, and that we are moving in a positive direction under him. I think he BADLY needs to hire an OC to take some of that off his plate.

Completely agree with this. Kizer came back in the game because he is the STARTING QB. Musical QBs never works, you would think we as fans of this team would understand that by now, but I guess not.

We are def going to have games like this, and probably worse. We just need to stick with Kizer and FOR THE LOVE OF PETE get him some HELP THIS OFFSEASON!

To early for such talk....

I have had them last a day or two, and I have then last 30 min to an hour. It just depends. But I can say, there have been times I have missed work they were so bad, and all I do is sit at a desk. Trust me, you cant play football with one.

One time I had one so bad, I was literally hitting my head against a wall. You cant even move other times.

I haven’t had a painful headache since I was drinking maybe ~ 9 years ago. (hangover- which was curable by drinking again and not stopping)

But more recently - the last couple years - I’ve had some severe head pains.

1) A very tough ear ache that radiated to my jaw.
2) A sore throat that sucked wicked all night long. Every swallow was pain (of saliva - maybe every 30 seconds).
3) Dental pain. Not a regular tooth ache. But back molar pain brought on by drinking warm fluids and I drink a potfull of coffee everyday. This was debilitating. For maybe 60 seconds after a swallow of coffee, I could not do anything except wince in intense pain.

And of course thinking about the state of my beloved Browns.

I agree with Muni:

We should contact Tressel, Meyer, Nick Saban, and all of the other superior coaches. All of their squads could beat the Cleveland Browns.

I'm sure even Bernie Kosar could coach Kessler into a HOF QB!

I have seen nothing, I mean nothing to indicate that Hue is head coach material. He was just a QB coach a few years ago. He shows me absolutely nothing. It was a very dark day when I heard them name him head coach. To me he is just an imposter loving the celebrity status and is way over his head with too much on his plate. Out coached in many games. 1-17 isn't a lie. This guy will never be a winning coach. Just sayin! I'd fire him if we lose to Indy!!!!

j/c

Some people have overestimated what a team with so much young talent will accomplish. It's an annual ailment around here that the fans have predicted the outcome based on their hearts and not their heads. As such we end up with emotional threads based not on critical thinking but raw feelings.

Vers called this one and I expected no less.

I agree these games are going to happen because of our youth and inexperience. Team and coaches need to hang in there and keep fighting and we need to support them. NO one should get fired. We may need to give some players a little more playing time and a couple less IMO.

j/c:

Lot's of blame being directed at Hue for the team's performance, but I haven't seen anyone question the FO and ownership for the team's performance.

That seems odd...

Look.......losing should have been expected. We blew up the roster. A complete tear-down. The vast majority of posters were okay w/that mindset. Not sure how you can expect better play this soon?

But, people didn't want to hear it when a few of us questioned the plan and how the continuous losing can wear on everyone associated w/the team, including the fan base.

We decided to blow it up. I wouldn't have gone about it that way, but it's in the past. I think the best thing we can do now is give the FO and coaching staff a minimum of 3 full years before even considering their job security. I'd like to see them all get 4-5, but we should at least give them 3.

It's much too early for all of this negative talk.

It is foolish to think we will ever be good as long as hue is the head coach. He is worse than Mangini, shumer, petine, Davis and Palmer. Don't even think about playoffs with this coach. Sorry to burst your bubbles. Can we beat Indy?

Agreed. +1

You realize he has coached before as a HC right? He was 8-8 with a pretty bad OAK team

It was fairly obvious to me that Kizer suffered a concussion and should not have come back in. A migraine is NOT a headache. A migraine can put you on your knees with the pain and even temporarily make you blind or lose bodily functions. It can humble even the strongest men.

You can tell he was suffering a concussion though because he was scared and jittery after he came back. There was also a VERY noticeable decline in his processing speed which was already slow to begin with. He also was very clearly suffering a loss of depth perception with how bad his throws became.

The fault lies in the Docs not taking his arse out of the game.

The FO passed on Tribiky, Wentz, Watson, prescott and Goff. Got rid of key players that could have contributed. The D has potential and can be really good but we are screwed on offense! Kizer is not our guy. Play Hogan or Kessler and draft a QB. Fire Hue! I don't want to fire anybody either but if you will never win with this guy, why torture the fans for 3 more years. I see nothing from hue! Nothing!

willi above:



And they got worse.

If he had been a good coach, he'd still at Oakland.

yep... 1-17 isn't going to keep you a job very long, rebuild or not NFL

I realize that but that doesn't mean he knows what he is doing. He is not even mediocre. Maybe a good Dad and nice guy but not a head coach by any stretch of the imagination. What have you seen that tells you he is the guy? I see nothing whatsoever!!!!!

BTW

Howdy willi and TONY.

Fasten your seatbelts. Keep your arms in the vehicle at all times and exit to the left once the ride has come to a complete stop.

If it was "fairly obvious" to you that he suffered a concussion, wouldn't it have been fairly obvious to the doc's, AND the independent specialists on the field?

I don't think they are telling us everything!

I can guarantee you there are 53 guys and some practice player personal that disagree with you. As well as a lot of others in the league. take a Xanax and calm the heck down.

If you wanna talk about lack of talent....lets
if you wanna talk about lack of player execution...lets

Hue didnt sign the FA, Hue isn't the one who has not addressed the offense to date, Hue is not the one that cut players or let players walk.

You are simply rambling at this point, Tony. We the youngest football team in the league. That's not Hue's doing. We have more rookies and second year guys playing than any other team, that's not Hues doing. You can only coach what you are given. Look at the Defense. We have seemed to really turn it around, by investing in the draft solely on it. We will start investing on the offense this year. You cant fill every hole in two drafts that we had. Sheesh!

You've seen "no one" blame the team for their performance? Wow, you really do have selective reading.

I think it's pretty apparent that both the team and the coaching are getting critiqued. Nothing wrong with that.

They went from being the worst team in the league to 8-8, then they fired Hue and were bottom dwellers again.

My main point was not to argue but to point out that the previous poster had 0 facts with what he was saying.

They may not be. But, if they aren't telling us everything, expect the nfl to get involved real quick and expect to see people lose jobs.

A more than fair question. It should have been but I am willing to bet Kizer lied to them somewhat to make sure he got back out there and didn't lose his job. Also, players can be coached to answer the questions in a certain way too. It's also possible the symptoms got worse AFTER the exam and things had time swell up and hemorrhage more. It's not always so black and white. Still they should have known after the first series he was out there and yanked him again for his own safety.

According to Mayo Clinic the signs of a Concussion:

Signs and symptoms of a concussion may include:

Headache or a feeling of pressure in the head
Temporary loss of consciousness
Confusion or feeling as if in a fog
Amnesia surrounding the traumatic event
Dizziness or "seeing stars"
Ringing in the ears
Nausea
Vomiting
Slurred speech
Delayed response to questions
Appearing dazed
Fatigue

The dude went out for a migraine sign 1, and he obviously was playing a bit dazed. His reaction time was definately delayed too.

Also, Mayo Clinic writes, "You may have some symptoms of concussions immediately. Others may be delayed for hours or days after injury..." I am not a doctor and don't claim to be but to me the signs were pretty obvious by the change in his play. The team certainly should have known better.

I don't think the concussion or migraine has anything to do with Hue's coaching or the subject. JMO. Hue or any other head coach is not a doctor, and if the doctor clears a player to play, and that player is your starting QB, you put him in the game. Any other coach in the NFL would have done the same thing.

Here are the most consistent knocks on Hue:

- he tries to get too cute with his shifts/formations
*anyone think that might be because we have such a lack of talent on the offensive side of the ball he has to try to confuse defenses? Given, it has not worked, and he should rethink this, but just a thought.

- He can manage a clock
*I agree with this, and have stated that he needs to hire an OC to help with this aspect so he can focus more on the overall game.

- Our offense is horrible
*We have spent heavily in the draft with this regime on the def side of the ball. Just this last year, we started on the offense with the line. I believe you will see us invest heavily going forward on the offense. We had a lot of holes to full, and not much time to do it. There is a lack of talent on the field, plain and simple. You cant coach a turd into filet. I don't care who the coach is, we would not be that much better record wise.

Look, I don't want to talk to you. You follow me around and try to start fights. You are now resorting to misquoting me.

I said:



Please stop w/your nonsense.

I thought you had put him on "ignore"?

He doesn't have anyone on ignore. He just publicly says stuff like that thinking people equate it to being actually relevant and that it means something to other posters. It's rather narcissistic, to be honest.

And yes, people are blaming this teams' performance too. Not just Hue. Vers needs to stop trying to turn this into a coach vs FO battle like every other time. That's all and you can see right through it.

well, he has ME on ignore. And that's fine.

I'm not so sure that making it coach vs FO is what he's trying to do. I do however believe that blame is not as simple as one or the other. Does Hue make some mistakes? Sure he does. I won't try to mitigate those either. I do however believe that the plan by the FO is part of what we're seeing. You can't make the decision to re-build a team from the ground up and expect to not see games play out the way we saw this past Sunday.

What I will agree with you about is this thread is not for that discussion. As Vers often points out, it seems he may be deviating from the thread topic. I really don't see an outcry from much of the fan base about Hue. There are a couple of emotional fans who are still licking their wounds from yesterdays loss.

On the flip side, Vers did predict this would happen. I do believe if these losses continue to pile up, you'll see the cries for Hue's head increase.

Let's face it, building up to this game some fans were saying we were a better team than the Ravens, many fans predicting a win. Sometimes our fans set themselves up for their own disappointment.

I hope that was even handed enough to please the masses.

Hiring an OC would change nothing.. Hue will NOT give up his play calling. For those bickering, just accept it.

No offensive playcaller is perfect.. I have friends in NO calling for Sean Payton to be fired.

Execution is everything.

I really dont even think Hue called a bad game. I've seen worse last season.

I had a headache last night. It sucked and I wouldnt want to play a sport with one. Every time you move it hurts worse.

You have to wonder how much the migraine affected DK even before he took himself out. It certainly had to affect him after he came in. The symptoms probably started long before he took himself out even if they weren't that bad. I'm not using it as an excuse but it had to have some effect on his play.

quote above by willi - talking about Oakland:



Why do you suppose Oakland would fire who you believe was a good head coach?

I guess they're not as smart as you.

I think Hue has gotten the short end of the stick when it comes to offensive players on this team. That being said he needs to simplify his offense till he has more homegrown players on offense who have had a few years of being in the basics of it.

ce and prep to start out with a 3 and out. WOW. This was against the Steelers at home!!!!! Am I missing something here? If we don't go 3 and out, we don't get a blocked punt for a TD. Hue didn't have our guys re Wait a minute here. Before the Steelers game you have 4 preseason games to prepare. You play to win the game right? Well our 1st possession was a 3 and out. WTH! You cannot be serious. Last year we had so many 3 and outs it would be embarrassing to let the public know! It is like a turn over but Hue doesn't know this, otherwise he would figure out how to move a ball 10 yards in 3 plays. It's a friggin joke! All that practiady for that at all. Tomlin knew he could do this to a stupid coach. Here the kicker in the a$$. After all the 3 and outs last year and then the 1st series of the season, he does it again against the Ravens. Hue is to blame!!!!! Hue is horrible and trying to learn on the job. Somebody please tell this guy that a 3 and out is like a turn over!!!! Drove me nuts last year. This guy can't win crap. The San Diego game was won by a stupid missed field goal. Don't tell me Hue is not to blame. It is a joke!!!!

3 and outs are a part of the game. Calm down. and enjoy..

Link

"Fire the coach"...

What a stupid comment...

Suggest everyone take a look at the average age of the Browns roster...

..then take a look at the average years of NFL experience of the Browns roster...

Hue Jackson is coaching the youngest, least experienced team in the NFL. Hue Jackson does not pick the roster...

The Browns front office provides the players..Hue Jackson coaches that talent.

This only the second game of the season and in most cases, it takes an offensive unit longer to gel. Given the age and experience level of the roster, all of you might want to check your emotions and try thinking with your brain.

FIRE THIS COACH...dumbest thread ever!

I agree Hue has not coached well so far this year, however, he's been up against 2 strong defenses with rookie (and backup) QBs on our side.

That plus the refs looking to hurt us at every turn and I'd be pretty flustered too.

We need to give him 3 full years to grow into a proper head coach with this newly formed and grown roster.

I will say if he goes less than 8-8 (or 7-9 but with 3 div wins) next year though, then I'd be worried if I were him.

I have not seen one thing to make me believe Hue is a good coach. Not one! We are 0-18 if the San Diego guy makes that field goal last year. A 3 and out to start each game this year tells me this guy has no clue!!! I have seen nothing from this guy, have any of you? What is it?

It would have been nice to keep Chud but he lost those last 10 or 11 games of the season. You just can't do that. Bummer!

A good coach would be able to wins games with this roster. You don't know what you are talking about. Hue can't coach. We started the last 2 games with 3 and outs. What a joke! The Steelers and the Ravens just out coached hue. As simple as that.

We need more threads like this instead of giving Hue a pass all the time!!!!

a 3 AND OUT IS A TURN OVER!!

Classless example of the Browns current culture.

“When you get in the endzone, act like you've been there before.”

-Bear Bryant

Wasn't that his first NFL TD?

So, technically speaking... he hadn't been there before... right?

TDs are rare in Cle. Ok with me if they want to celebrate and keep morale up.

Damn Mac the voice of reason, besides everything else wrong with my health i now have too worry about one of my 2 anuriziums rupturing.

I agree with all of this. Seeing this thread makes this mb look like all the other whiny team boards that I try to avoid.

More insults and BS from you.

Here is a quote from the post I made that you were attacking:



Memphis.............making crap up again!

to get back to the topic at hand.

Hue gets 3 to prove he can make it or not. He has built a solid staff one of the best we have had period. You don't build a team in 1 year from bare bones but we should see competitive and that we are seeing.

Last year we tore it down. Lets give Hue and this FO a chance to build something. We see guys making huge leaps because of this staff. gotta let them sort through the sinkers and the swimmers.

j/c...

Anyone who said that we should give the FO and coaching staff 4-5 years but even if not then 3 at a minimum...IS SPOT ON!

We've been through this dance before. I would bet my house that we will not be a 1 win team. Now if we are 0-4 then I would have to retract and actually get scared about this season. More than likely we will have a darn good chance to be 2-2...but we cannot turn the ball over 5 times...pure and simple.
jmho

Expecting to win 1 game is overestimating? If 0-16 is all we can realistically look forward to, then we've hit a new low.

tHEY'VE been saying that in Cinci for 15 years. LOL

Hue is not 1/8 the coach that Belichick is. Mediocre at best. Same with Kizer!

You sure are a bundle of joy.

Thank you! I was right about Petine, Chud,Shurmer, Mangini, Davis and palmer. Do you think I lost my touch. Davis might have lasted longer if Northcutt doesn't drop that 3rd down pass in Pittsburgh. I would have worked with Chud but you just can't lose your last 10 games. He was humble enough to work with but Jimmy jumped the gun on him.

This thread is just stupid venting.... We haven't had real bad football yet this year. We are actually competitive. We've had nothing but a steaming pile a crap in recent years.

This is the youngest team in the NFL with an average of 2 years out of college football. The difference between college and pro's is a huge gap (even greater now days that in the past). This is a learning year where we have to take some lumps, but we can compete and wins some games.

Some of the newer people to the board may not understand, but we used to have some terrible games that were unbearable. On the old board... those were legitimate complaints. This is nothing. If we have to take some lumps to be better in the future, then so be it. But firing a Head coach just because things aren't going your way is not the way to build a winner. We've tried that before and it led to 20 years of garbage. We have to build the team the right way, or we will continue to be the laughing stock of the league.

We need to be patient. The loss at baltimore was disappointing, but we are only two weeks into the season, 20 months into the new regime, 2 games into a season with a starting rookie QB, and many young starters. A loss in Baltimore, even one where we get beat badly, is not a big deal.
We have a lot of whiny fans, too. I suggest some of you snap out of your bitch-mode.

You have 15 posts under your belt... sure anything you say is gospel.

I love Hue to death but he really does need to improve his play calling and play clock management.

"Ice up Rook!"


Silly thread is silly. I'm encouraged to see whilst some are holding Hue to account for his mistakes, the vast majority of posers are savvy enough to stay the course. As it should be.

The rest of you.....well......go root for Buffalo

Two weeks of your trolling...don't know if I can take it. Now your thread makes sense.

Like I said before, they are staying the course in Cinci

Hey, TONY, you know that messages on a fan board probably aren't going to affect anything in Berea, right?

You'll get more traction sending Jimmy Haslam an e-mail.

I'm not sure if it will get anything changed, but, you can give it a whirl.

Best of luck.

Oh I know that. I just love seeing the opinion and reaction to my comments. Like if we lose 2 out of the next 3 games, CRAP will hit the fan in Cleveland. Just sayin!

The only constant with the Browns has been lack of talent from poor drafting and overall personnel decisions.

When the cupboard is bare no head coach is going to look good.

NFL teams have tried many business models. The one thing that all agree on is build through the draft.

Because of that the most important person in any NFL organization is the person who evaluates the talent.

When a head coach has good talent he has a decent chance. If not he has none.

You can think whatever you want about Hue Jackson. But you don't win many games turning the ball over. Hue didn't throw any int's or fumble the ball. He doesn't comment penalties.

This team is going to have games like this against good defenses. Hopefully they will learn and get better.

The Browns don't need to fire the head coach. They do need to play better to win.

I think you just admitted that you're a troll.

+1 jfanent

Maybe in the TONY-district, but those of us that had our expectations set below Superbowl won't be too disappointed with a super young team, with a very young, rookie quarterback and a lot of ?'s stumbling here and there.

It kinda sounds like you are hoping the crap will hit he fan.

See: Smack Shack. Nothing delightful in losing to any fan. That would be at least trollish.

Since we've only played two games don't you think you're jumping the shark just a bit? lol

No. Expecting to beat Baltimore was overestimating. Talking about this game in particular.

It's not about a game to game assessment, more of a general outlook.

There's a reason we're consistently a touchdown plus underdog in vegas every week...

Everyone knows we have to be near perfect just to have a shot late in the game. Shouldn't be that way, but that's what it is when you can't move the ball. We're not good enough anywhere on the field.

But... It doesn't help, and fans have every right to be emotional, when this team constantly shots itself in the foot.

You can sit here, and be that guy that wants to say "I TOLD YOU SO" and not be mad when we lose, but that doesn't mean fans can't be irate because we rack up gobs and gobs of penalty yards, drop balls, loaf on plays, and make errors at the worst possible time. Yes, some of that is the product of an extremely young team (i believe the team in the nfl with the most 1-2 year starters), but the other has been on poor coaching.

I know I seem like I'm flip flopping, but I am trying to see all sides. Hue Jackson needs way more time before the topic of coaching changes should even be brought up. He's on the hook for RG3 and Kessler, and he will be on the hook for Kizer, but he's had almost no playmakers, his top pick hasn't played since the preseason, and he got scheduled baltimore and pittsburgh in the first two opening weeks (thanks nfl).

I don't know why people think some miracle worker is going to go in there and just wave his magic wand and make everything better. We have to build it, and things will probably be a little ugly on the way.

The entire organization has room to grow. I think people gotta be patient, and I know how much that sucks to tell Browns fans because the fan base has been more patient than any franchise in sports history.

Are you crazy? I want to win so bad it hurts but when you wait all summer for the Steelers game and then go 3 and out on the 1st drive, you have to question what the heck is going on. Then you do it again the next week against the Ravens. We had to deal with this several times last year also. At some point you have to hold the OC accountable or do we just sit back and have patience. It kills the defense. It is a good way to lose games. Hue might be over his head with too much on his plate. This next month will give us a better picture. If we continue the regression again this week, the head coach will come under some nasty fire!

You are completely ignoring the lack of talent and experience on the offensive side of the ball. Blaming the coach is always easy.

Yeah but I don't think like that. I think we could have beat the Steelers with this young team. I would have went into the hurry up offense on the 1st drive running high percentage quick hitting plays. Hue tries to establish a predictable running game which is foolish and feeds right in to the hands of Steelers. Crowell was 17 for 33 yards. Hue made him look bad. What a joke! You have to get creative on offense. Move the chains at any cost. TEs over the middle. Take some shots over the top. Don't brainwash Kizer into not running when needed. The D looks really good until they let Ben sit back and pick us apart. I think we should have won that game and I don't care what anybody thinks. No excuse for Taylors 41 yard penalty. That's why I'm glad Hadens gone. We should have beat the Steelers and then we regress the next week because Hue dosen't simplify the offense for Deshone. I've seen absolutely nothing from this coach. We will learn more the next 3 games. I was disappointed that Flacco simply outsmarted Greg Williams!

I think our offense is more than adequate. It's the strategy that that is horrible. Out coached!

I don't agree Cap ... depending on what your definition of "expecting" is ... I thought this was a coin flip game ... i thought we had as good a chance to win as Balt ... i didn't "expect" to win but i sure as all hell thought we could ... and i didn't see anythng that told me we can't win the re-match!

Instead we decided to beat ourselves ... the difference in this game was the turnovers ... they didn't beat up on us, they didn't out physical or out play us .... we actually moved the ball on them better than i thought we could ...

It stinks we lost but i don't believe that thinking we could win was to high of an expectation for this game ... anyone "expecting" a win in any game this year is a wee bit delusional in my book ... we can win 4 - 6 games this year but were not good enough yet to go into any game "expecting" to win ...

Julesdawg said the same thing 10 years ago..LOL

Yeah, when you admit you just love seeing the reactions to your comments, well, that's pretty much the definition of a troll.

So, you've been a troll for 10 years, huh?

Not true at all. No troll here. Just voicing my view and opinion just like everyone else, including you.

I think Hue does deserve some criticism, although maybe not as much as some are putting on him and I think his pass for lack of talent is getting a little thinner week to week. Here's why I say this:

The playcalling seems to be a mystery. Still. I think it was the series before Kizer went out, it was 1st down and we had started to get the run game moving a bit. We come out throwing on all downs and end up punting. Why? 1st and Goal from the 3... and we don't pound the rock with Crow? To me it just seems like what we are seeing on Sundays doesn't quite match up with what Hue is telling us we should be doing. Yes the WR group is a hot mess and the TE's are so-so... but the run game? Shon Coleman is our least experienced guy on the line... and while not all pro super stars, I don't think anyone believes we are short on talent between Crow, Duke, and Dayes. I think Hue has a propensity to make things a little more complicated than needs to be sometimes, to the point where I'm starting to slide toward the idea of needing an OC.

But who knows, maybe this is just Hue's way of coaching and implementing his system? Similar to our last DC, maybe Hue just puts it all out there and let's the players develop into it instead of scaling it down and increasing in a progression?

I won't blame him at this stage for the challenges/lack of challenges so far this year. I do believe Duke scored the TD BUT I don't think there was an angle that conclusively would have shown he didn't step out of bounds.

Amen brother! He should have called a timeout before the half in the ravens game. Snuffed out any chance to win when he hurried Hogan into an interception. Then he takes him out in the second half. WTH!

I get what you're saying, Dawg. And my response was not thought out well. Here is how my addled brain took this:

Someone said something about how winning this game was "high expectations" or something along those lines.

Someone else interpreted that as winning *any* game (meaning finishing 1-15 at the worst) was the "high expectations".

I responded that the high expectations was over winning THIS game, not just ANY game. I do not think the first poster was talking about 1-15 as being expecting too much.

I honestly thought we had a chance in this game, based on the first week. We needed to see growth, and we did not. These next opponents might be coming along at a good time.

One thing I will criticize Hue for is the run game so far.

We go out and build this monster line... and then run a pass-happy offense out of the shotgun? The lack of attempt to establish a run game is what has me miffed at Hue. We play out of the gun because Kizer can't take snaps from under center... well that's just more reason why he should've sat for a year to learn, but that's a different discussion. Long story short, run the damn ball. Let these highly paid linemen do what we said we would do before the season started.

Tony (or should I say... TONY),
You said you would've run a quick-hitter offense, with some hurry-up? You wanna run that type of offense with a QB that is slow with his reads, and his accuracy inconsistency? Ok...

Fire the coach? Sure, why not. It's worked out so well for us for the past 18 years. If we keep starting over every 2 years, we're bound to hit that miracle season once.

j/c:

So........Hue runs it too much. Hue doesn't run it enough. Hue is too predictable. Hue tries to get too cute and has too many formations. The talent and lack of experience are not really the problems. It's the play calling that is the problem.

Makes a lot of sense. LOL

So a day after the Sunday loss by the Bengals.
and we are closing in on the Bengal/Browns game in about 10 days...TONY appears and has made 26 posts.

Ummm this ain't Rocket Science stuff

I certainly don't pretend to know more than Hue, but this was a head-scratcher...

For me it's been a head-scratcher for 18 games in a row.

I want Hue to succeed, but so far it seems all the fired coaches did a much better job. Lets see what happens in the next month...

Your bengals, and marvin, aren't doing much.

Plus, he's now threatening the next job losses?

https://wdef.com/2017/09/20/lewis-to-winless-bengals-next-job-lost-will-be-yours/

There is noway they beat the angry Packers. 0-3

This is why I think he has this tendency to outsmart himself. Sometimes it makes sense to do the obvious. Plus, you can't create an identity just by telling people what you are. You have to earn it. You can't call yourself a run first team if your inclination is to pass first in a situation like that.

We'll see. I'm hoping this is just one of those scenarios where it appears the moving parts are disjointed, but then they suddenly snap together and it all makes sense.

How much do any of you really know about play calling? Can you describe the route trees? The blocking schemes? Can you name the progressions? Do you know what defense the other team is in? Can you tell if teams are playing run first and daring you to pass? Do you know the personnel as well as Hue?

I think I know more about such things than you guys do and I don't have a clue about most of it while watching on TV.

I think it comes down to this w/most of you. If the plays work, the guy is a good play caller. If the plays don't work, he is not doing a good job.

Why was Hue so successful as a play caller w/the Bengals and why does he stink here? Do you have a link where he fell on his head and got dumber? LOL...........

It bothers me because I think people are laying the ground work that will eventually get Hue fired when the reality is that this team lacks experience and talent, especially on the offensive side of the ball!

That is what I thought. I didn't think they came and went in a half hour of so, as a general rule.

That disturbes me that his did after Hogan went in and put points on the board..

Are you blaming Hue?

I thought they said Kize was cleared by the medical staff to return? I thought it was a medical decision and not a coaching decision?

I hate speaking on the migraine thing too much because I was not there and am don't have any expertise in the area. I do know that my wife gets migraines and she is out of it for hours and hours. I've never seen her w/a 30 minute migraine, nor have I ever talked to anyone else who said they had a 30 minute migraine.

I am not bashing Kizer here. I am just wondering if he had "migraine-like symptoms, rather than an actual migraine.

I get that it's becoming increasingly popular to blame Hue for everything, but I don't think Hue put Kize back into the game w/out him being cleared by the medical staff.

I get migraines, and have for years. The flashes in my eyes when they come on make it almost impossible to have a full field of vision. Sometimes I can look at someone and only see half their face. I understand that the staff cleared him, but only Kizer can say if he was alright. Him being a young player and motivated, I can see where he would say he was alright to go. The thing with my migraines is that after the flashes disappear in my eyes, usually the headache worsens, although sometimes it goes away too. The problem then is just a sick feeling and not a very clear head. I've had them last anywhere from a half hour to several hours, but always the worn down feeling afterwords.

When I heard he had a migraine, it explained a lot as to why he was so off the mark in the first half. Knowing what happens and the symptoms afterwards, I questioned Hue putting him back in. If you never experienced one, it is hard to understand how one feels when suffering from them. I think Hue might be someone who doesn't understand the after effects, and that is not his fault. But I did get the feeling that he didn't want a controversy at the position, and I understand that. But, it isn't like, if Hogan finished the game Kizer was done as the starter.

Kizer, IMO, should have said he wasn't 100%, and I do believe that was the situation. Being full of pride some times makes you make bad decisions. I think Kizer made one here.

I just hope it doesn't happen to him again. I know mine come a couplke times a year, and the doctor has yet to tell me what triggers them. He may never have another on the field, but if he does, I hope he admits that he's not fully ready to play at the highest level he can.

No, I don't know a lot about schemes. I don't need to. But I am an intelligent enough monkey to know that what Hue claims we are as a team, isn't what he's showcasing as a team (at this point in time).

Coming in to this season he told us we are a team who is going to commit to the run game more. In two games we haven't shown we're making that commitment. Now I am also smart enough to understand that sometimes circumstances during a game can make your game plan one dimensional. Having said that, neither of these last 2 games was so far out of reach that early where we couldn't keep a commitment to run the ball through at least the first 3 quarters.

1st and Goal at the 3.. and the self proclaimed running team doesn't give it to the RB? And when it comes to the running game aspect, don't give me this nonsense about lack of talent. We have sufficient talent in the RB room, and our O-Line is experienced enough to handle a goal line running attempt.

So which is it?

a) Hue is not committing to the run game (or at the very least his definition of commitment is different than most)

or

b) it's as you say and we have a lack of talent. If that's the case, why is he saying we are built to run the ball when we clearly aren't?

I'm saying that teams are putting an extra guy in the box because they respect our running game more than they do our passing game.

I am saying that Hue recognizes that is trying to exploit the weakness of the defense.

I am saying that our inexperience and lack of talent on offense has been a much bigger issue that Hue not being a good play caller.

I agree that you can pick a handful of plays to critique. However, the same can be said of every HC and coordinator in the league.

I still would like to know how Hue got dumber from his time w/the Bengals, Rats, and Raiders?

But who's really saying he got dumber?

I guess to get a real comparison one would have to analyze a break down of his play calling prior to coming to Cleveland.

I guess I'm just left scratching my head a bit. We invested in the run game, one of the benefits of which is to take the pressure off of a rookie QB right? I would think knowing that and stating that, one would have to assume teams are going to stack the box and should have a plan to address that... bring in an extra tackle, get creative (heck I don't know, line Larry up as a FB on the goal line... something).

But to say we invested in a running game in order to take pressure off the young QB, but turn around and say the running game depends on the young QB.

Look, I'm not saying Hue's a bad play caller. I do believe he has a tendency to get too cute, and when he does, it just doesn't seem to have the big pay off I would expect. One area you haven't seen me criticize him for is the challenges because I can see why and why not he's made some of the calls he did and I don't blame him.

I get that. It just kinda bugs me that some of you keep blaming Hue but ignore the fact that he has an inexperienced and not very talented roster to work with. No one is bashing the FO for that. But, Hue keeps getting grilled.

And I am not saying we should bash the FO. But the inexperience/talent factors far exceed the play calling issues.

The bottom line is that this team chose to completely tear down this team and start over. The owner said it would be a multi-year rebuild. Almost everyone on here was okay w/that. But, two games into the second season, people are already blaming the coach for not calling the right plays.

Relax and give all of them time to turn this thing around. Continually firing people is perhaps the biggest reason why we have sucked for so many years.

No, not blaming Hue at all.

I might be blaming Kizer, but I don't want to do that either. It was just funny how he wasn't going to come back, until Hogan started to move the team.

You could be right. Maybe he didn't have a migraine, maybe just symptoms.

Who knows, but I am not blaming Hue for that. The QB tells him he can't play because of a headache, he pulls him from the game. The staff looks at him, says he doesn't have a consussion, and the QB says he is good, you put him back in.

Its a combo ...

Vers is right that there is a lack of talent here ... no doubt ...

All those saying that Hue is not doing a good job as OC are also right ... U hit on one of the two big points, at least for me ... hes not doing what he said he'd do ... were not running the ball like he said we would ... and the game situations are ZERO EXCUSE this year ... Hue loves to get "tricky" with all the movement and shifts, especially late .. he also loves to pass the ball ... and that tendency has dominated him on game days ...

Vers keeps asking if Hue got dumber as a play caller ... well here's your answer Vers (at least the 2nd time I've answered it .. so don't say NO ONE has answered it anymore ... i have at least twice now .. *L*) ..

No Hue didn't get dumber he did however take on a BOATLOAD OF NEW RESPONSIBILITIES ... maybe this will ring a bell ...

Hues old formula was ... OC = 100% of his time .... that was it ... 100% of his time was given to being the OC ...

Hue's new formula is ... OC + HC = 100% of his time .... whats the split ... i don't know ... but what we do know is ..

He's not spending all his time with the O .. in the meeting rooms, on the field, during film sessions, etc etc etc ...

That has to affect his play calling an a negative manner ... IT SIMPLY HAS TOO ...

And Vers ... get over it ... this isn't me saying that I want Hue fired ... i'm not even saying he should give up OC duties at this point ... I'm still on the fence with that one .. just like i am with HUE AS A HC ... he's 18 games in ... he gets the rest of this year and next from me ... then I'll let u know where i stand on him as a HC ... my RIGHT NOW ASSESMENT ... theres been some good and some bad ... hes done a really good job in some areas and been pretty bad in a few (game clock mgmt, and handling of QB's has been HORRIBLE IMO so far .. and again .. it doesn't mean i want him fired .. FAR FROM IT ... ) ..

I believe the O should be simplified. Less movement and shifting. When we get more experience as a team then you can implement more shifting and go deeper into the playbook. DK is still adjusting to NFL speed he doesn't need to have things more complicated. For now, simplify and play straight up.

I don't see shifting being the part that needs to be simplified. Just certain 100 plays maybe let him execute what he has and add on. But no need to stop the shifting. If anything its not Kizer that isn't getting it he seems to know where and who should be there.
jmho

Jackson is atrocious at decision making. He needs to be the OC (if we keep him), and we do need a new HC.

Wow, tough crowd. How about you allow Hue to be human and make some mistakes and see if he learns from them? We aren't ever going to get someone who is perfect out of the box. Give him a chance to grow into the position as much as we do the players we hope will be shining stars one day.

I am.


However, he is 1-17 as coach of the Browns. How many years do you think it will take him to get back to .500?

I don't know the answer, but he better get started

Considering the talent he inherited I'm willing to give him a pass on the first 16.

How about we give him 3 full years to find out?

Firing coaches every 2.1 years hasn't seemed to work out all that well, has it?

I think he does the late shifting in an effort to force the defense to expose their intentions, to make it easier for Kizer to interpret what he sees pre-snap.

Thanks to a couple of you for pointing out that pre-snap shifting and motion has ZERO to do w/reading post-snap coverages.

People know just enough to be dangerous and repeat stupid crap that isn't even close to being true.

I say at least 2.5. All I am saying is he and the team better get started. They have to break the losing streak. Sundays game is very important for the future of this team. One of the more important games we have played in some time.

HAHAHHAHAHA

Dude, we don't even have a #2 receiver let alone a #1, meanwhile teams like Pitt have Bryant and Brown, then Bell etc.

Gimme a break.

I think there’s some faulty logic in some of the above posts.

The Browns are not a bad team because of the high head coach turnover.

There’s a high head coach turnover because the Browns are a bad team.

If all these coaches were “good”, the NFL would be filled with head coaches who were former Browns head coaches.

Is there currently any former “new” Browns head coaches that are head coaches elsewhere?

They all obviously sucked. You shouldn’t keep a bad head coach just for the sake of lowering head coach turnover.

And I’m a big believer in it starts at the top.

It’s very possible Haslam is a very poor owner.

I should qualify that.

Haslam may not be highly committed to seeing the Browns win an NFL Championship (Super Bowl)

(Belichick doesn’t count. He wasn’t fired.)

The losing coach of the Browns/Colts game may be packing his bags.

we are not talented enough on O to go straight up against most teams. the shifts can hint what the other team is in pre snap.

j/c

think how bad it sucks to be 1-17 (.055) as a head coach for a franchise ... regardless of the talent level or what people think of your coaching ability, it has to be tough

LOL