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Originally Posted By: bbrowns32
Originally Posted By: DevilDawg2847
1st and Goal from the 3... and we don't pound the rock with Crow?


I certainly don't pretend to know more than Hue, but this was a head-scratcher...


This is why I think he has this tendency to outsmart himself. Sometimes it makes sense to do the obvious. Plus, you can't create an identity just by telling people what you are. You have to earn it. You can't call yourself a run first team if your inclination is to pass first in a situation like that.

We'll see. I'm hoping this is just one of those scenarios where it appears the moving parts are disjointed, but then they suddenly snap together and it all makes sense.


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How much do any of you really know about play calling? Can you describe the route trees? The blocking schemes? Can you name the progressions? Do you know what defense the other team is in? Can you tell if teams are playing run first and daring you to pass? Do you know the personnel as well as Hue?

I think I know more about such things than you guys do and I don't have a clue about most of it while watching on TV.

I think it comes down to this w/most of you. If the plays work, the guy is a good play caller. If the plays don't work, he is not doing a good job.

Why was Hue so successful as a play caller w/the Bengals and why does he stink here? Do you have a link where he fell on his head and got dumber? LOL...........

It bothers me because I think people are laying the ground work that will eventually get Hue fired when the reality is that this team lacks experience and talent, especially on the offensive side of the ball!


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Originally Posted By: Mourgrym
Mine I get a shimmering light that starts covering part of my field of vision. It continues to grow, this is before any headache begins. Take meds quickly drink gatoriade and I can avoid most of the pain.

Problem is, it takes a few hours before I get through the nausea, eyes clean, and pain stops but even after that, the brain doesn't process like it normally does. Your brain works differently, its slower, you may pickup the tv remote and put it in your pocket instead of your cell phone.

The eyesight and decision making part is really bad for a QB. You gotta process all that's happening and with a migrane, you just aren't doing it. That slow brain process lasts for days afterwards.


That is what I thought. I didn't think they came and went in a half hour of so, as a general rule.

That disturbes me that his did after Hogan went in and put points on the board..


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Are you blaming Hue?

I thought they said Kize was cleared by the medical staff to return? I thought it was a medical decision and not a coaching decision?

I hate speaking on the migraine thing too much because I was not there and am don't have any expertise in the area. I do know that my wife gets migraines and she is out of it for hours and hours. I've never seen her w/a 30 minute migraine, nor have I ever talked to anyone else who said they had a 30 minute migraine.

I am not bashing Kizer here. I am just wondering if he had "migraine-like symptoms, rather than an actual migraine.

I get that it's becoming increasingly popular to blame Hue for everything, but I don't think Hue put Kize back into the game w/out him being cleared by the medical staff.


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I get migraines, and have for years. The flashes in my eyes when they come on make it almost impossible to have a full field of vision. Sometimes I can look at someone and only see half their face. I understand that the staff cleared him, but only Kizer can say if he was alright. Him being a young player and motivated, I can see where he would say he was alright to go. The thing with my migraines is that after the flashes disappear in my eyes, usually the headache worsens, although sometimes it goes away too. The problem then is just a sick feeling and not a very clear head. I've had them last anywhere from a half hour to several hours, but always the worn down feeling afterwords.

When I heard he had a migraine, it explained a lot as to why he was so off the mark in the first half. Knowing what happens and the symptoms afterwards, I questioned Hue putting him back in. If you never experienced one, it is hard to understand how one feels when suffering from them. I think Hue might be someone who doesn't understand the after effects, and that is not his fault. But I did get the feeling that he didn't want a controversy at the position, and I understand that. But, it isn't like, if Hogan finished the game Kizer was done as the starter.

Kizer, IMO, should have said he wasn't 100%, and I do believe that was the situation. Being full of pride some times makes you make bad decisions. I think Kizer made one here.

I just hope it doesn't happen to him again. I know mine come a couplke times a year, and the doctor has yet to tell me what triggers them. He may never have another on the field, but if he does, I hope he admits that he's not fully ready to play at the highest level he can.

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Originally Posted By: Versatile Dog
How much do any of you really know about play calling? Can you describe the route trees? The blocking schemes? Can you name the progressions? Do you know what defense the other team is in? Can you tell if teams are playing run first and daring you to pass? Do you know the personnel as well as Hue?

I think I know more about such things than you guys do and I don't have a clue about most of it while watching on TV.

I think it comes down to this w/most of you. If the plays work, the guy is a good play caller. If the plays don't work, he is not doing a good job.

Why was Hue so successful as a play caller w/the Bengals and why does he stink here? Do you have a link where he fell on his head and got dumber? LOL...........

It bothers me because I think people are laying the ground work that will eventually get Hue fired when the reality is that this team lacks experience and talent, especially on the offensive side of the ball!


No, I don't know a lot about schemes. I don't need to. But I am an intelligent enough monkey to know that what Hue claims we are as a team, isn't what he's showcasing as a team (at this point in time).

Coming in to this season he told us we are a team who is going to commit to the run game more. In two games we haven't shown we're making that commitment. Now I am also smart enough to understand that sometimes circumstances during a game can make your game plan one dimensional. Having said that, neither of these last 2 games was so far out of reach that early where we couldn't keep a commitment to run the ball through at least the first 3 quarters.

1st and Goal at the 3.. and the self proclaimed running team doesn't give it to the RB? And when it comes to the running game aspect, don't give me this nonsense about lack of talent. We have sufficient talent in the RB room, and our O-Line is experienced enough to handle a goal line running attempt.

So which is it?

a) Hue is not committing to the run game (or at the very least his definition of commitment is different than most)

or

b) it's as you say and we have a lack of talent. If that's the case, why is he saying we are built to run the ball when we clearly aren't?


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I'm saying that teams are putting an extra guy in the box because they respect our running game more than they do our passing game.

I am saying that Hue recognizes that is trying to exploit the weakness of the defense.

I am saying that our inexperience and lack of talent on offense has been a much bigger issue that Hue not being a good play caller.

I agree that you can pick a handful of plays to critique. However, the same can be said of every HC and coordinator in the league.

I still would like to know how Hue got dumber from his time w/the Bengals, Rats, and Raiders?


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But who's really saying he got dumber?

I guess to get a real comparison one would have to analyze a break down of his play calling prior to coming to Cleveland.

I guess I'm just left scratching my head a bit. We invested in the run game, one of the benefits of which is to take the pressure off of a rookie QB right? I would think knowing that and stating that, one would have to assume teams are going to stack the box and should have a plan to address that... bring in an extra tackle, get creative (heck I don't know, line Larry up as a FB on the goal line... something).

But to say we invested in a running game in order to take pressure off the young QB, but turn around and say the running game depends on the young QB.

Look, I'm not saying Hue's a bad play caller. I do believe he has a tendency to get too cute, and when he does, it just doesn't seem to have the big pay off I would expect. One area you haven't seen me criticize him for is the challenges because I can see why and why not he's made some of the calls he did and I don't blame him.


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I get that. It just kinda bugs me that some of you keep blaming Hue but ignore the fact that he has an inexperienced and not very talented roster to work with. No one is bashing the FO for that. But, Hue keeps getting grilled.

And I am not saying we should bash the FO. But the inexperience/talent factors far exceed the play calling issues.

The bottom line is that this team chose to completely tear down this team and start over. The owner said it would be a multi-year rebuild. Almost everyone on here was okay w/that. But, two games into the second season, people are already blaming the coach for not calling the right plays.

Relax and give all of them time to turn this thing around. Continually firing people is perhaps the biggest reason why we have sucked for so many years.


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No, not blaming Hue at all.

I might be blaming Kizer, but I don't want to do that either. It was just funny how he wasn't going to come back, until Hogan started to move the team.

You could be right. Maybe he didn't have a migraine, maybe just symptoms.

Who knows, but I am not blaming Hue for that. The QB tells him he can't play because of a headache, he pulls him from the game. The staff looks at him, says he doesn't have a consussion, and the QB says he is good, you put him back in.


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Its a combo ...

Vers is right that there is a lack of talent here ... no doubt ...

All those saying that Hue is not doing a good job as OC are also right ... U hit on one of the two big points, at least for me ... hes not doing what he said he'd do ... were not running the ball like he said we would ... and the game situations are ZERO EXCUSE this year ... Hue loves to get "tricky" with all the movement and shifts, especially late .. he also loves to pass the ball ... and that tendency has dominated him on game days ...

Vers keeps asking if Hue got dumber as a play caller ... well here's your answer Vers (at least the 2nd time I've answered it .. so don't say NO ONE has answered it anymore ... i have at least twice now .. *L*) ..

No Hue didn't get dumber he did however take on a BOATLOAD OF NEW RESPONSIBILITIES ... maybe this will ring a bell ...

Hues old formula was ... OC = 100% of his time .... that was it ... 100% of his time was given to being the OC ...

Hue's new formula is ... OC + HC = 100% of his time .... whats the split ... i don't know ... but what we do know is ..

He's not spending all his time with the O .. in the meeting rooms, on the field, during film sessions, etc etc etc ...

That has to affect his play calling an a negative manner ... IT SIMPLY HAS TOO ...

And Vers ... get over it ... this isn't me saying that I want Hue fired ... i'm not even saying he should give up OC duties at this point ... I'm still on the fence with that one .. just like i am with HUE AS A HC ... he's 18 games in ... he gets the rest of this year and next from me ... then I'll let u know where i stand on him as a HC ... my RIGHT NOW ASSESMENT ... theres been some good and some bad ... hes done a really good job in some areas and been pretty bad in a few (game clock mgmt, and handling of QB's has been HORRIBLE IMO so far .. and again .. it doesn't mean i want him fired .. FAR FROM IT ... ) ..


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I believe the O should be simplified. Less movement and shifting. When we get more experience as a team then you can implement more shifting and go deeper into the playbook. DK is still adjusting to NFL speed he doesn't need to have things more complicated. For now, simplify and play straight up.

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I don't see shifting being the part that needs to be simplified. Just certain 100 plays maybe let him execute what he has and add on. But no need to stop the shifting. If anything its not Kizer that isn't getting it he seems to know where and who should be there.
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Jackson is atrocious at decision making. He needs to be the OC (if we keep him), and we do need a new HC.

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Wow, tough crowd. How about you allow Hue to be human and make some mistakes and see if he learns from them? We aren't ever going to get someone who is perfect out of the box. Give him a chance to grow into the position as much as we do the players we hope will be shining stars one day.


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Originally Posted By: Tulsa
Wow, tough crowd. How about you allow Hue to be human and make some mistakes and see if he learns from them? We aren't ever going to get someone who is perfect out of the box. Give him a chance to grow into the position as much as we do the players we hope will be shining stars one day.




I am.


However, he is 1-17 as coach of the Browns. How many years do you think it will take him to get back to .500?

I don't know the answer, but he better get started


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Considering the talent he inherited I'm willing to give him a pass on the first 16.


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Originally Posted By: Ballpeen
Originally Posted By: Tulsa
Wow, tough crowd. How about you allow Hue to be human and make some mistakes and see if he learns from them? We aren't ever going to get someone who is perfect out of the box. Give him a chance to grow into the position as much as we do the players we hope will be shining stars one day.




I am.


However, he is 1-17 as coach of the Browns. How many years do you think it will take him to get back to .500?

I don't know the answer, but he better get started


How about we give him 3 full years to find out?

Firing coaches every 2.1 years hasn't seemed to work out all that well, has it?

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Originally Posted By: eotab
I don't see shifting being the part that needs to be simplified. Just certain 100 plays maybe let him execute what he has and add on. But no need to stop the shifting. If anything its not Kizer that isn't getting it he seems to know where and who should be there.
jmho


I think he does the late shifting in an effort to force the defense to expose their intentions, to make it easier for Kizer to interpret what he sees pre-snap.


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Thanks to a couple of you for pointing out that pre-snap shifting and motion has ZERO to do w/reading post-snap coverages.

People know just enough to be dangerous and repeat stupid crap that isn't even close to being true.


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Originally Posted By: archbolddawg
Originally Posted By: Ballpeen
Originally Posted By: Tulsa
Wow, tough crowd. How about you allow Hue to be human and make some mistakes and see if he learns from them? We aren't ever going to get someone who is perfect out of the box. Give him a chance to grow into the position as much as we do the players we hope will be shining stars one day.







However, he is 1-17 as coach of the Browns. How many years do you think it will take him to get back to .500?

I don't know the answer, but he better get started


How about we give him 3 full years to find out?

Firing coaches every 2.1 years hasn't seemed to work out all that well, has it?


I say at least 2.5. All I am saying is he and the team better get started. They have to break the losing streak. Sundays game is very important for the future of this team. One of the more important games we have played in some time.


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Originally Posted By: TONY
Originally Posted By: Versatile Dog
You are completely ignoring the lack of talent and experience on the offensive side of the ball. Blaming the coach is always easy.

I think our offense is more than adequate. It's the strategy that that is horrible. Out coached!
HAHAHHAHAHA

Dude, we don't even have a #2 receiver let alone a #1, meanwhile teams like Pitt have Bryant and Brown, then Bell etc.

Gimme a break.

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I think there’s some faulty logic in some of the above posts.

The Browns are not a bad team because of the high head coach turnover.

There’s a high head coach turnover because the Browns are a bad team.

If all these coaches were “good”, the NFL would be filled with head coaches who were former Browns head coaches.

Is there currently any former “new” Browns head coaches that are head coaches elsewhere?

They all obviously sucked. You shouldn’t keep a bad head coach just for the sake of lowering head coach turnover.

And I’m a big believer in it starts at the top.

It’s very possible Haslam is a very poor owner.

I should qualify that.

Haslam may not be highly committed to seeing the Browns win an NFL Championship (Super Bowl)

(Belichick doesn’t count. He wasn’t fired.)

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The losing coach of the Browns/Colts game may be packing his bags.

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Originally Posted By: Homewood Dog
I believe DK is still adjusting to NFL speed he doesn't need to have things more complicated. For now, simplify and play straight up.


we are not talented enough on O to go straight up against most teams. the shifts can hint what the other team is in pre snap.


The only reason people get lost in thought is because it's unfamiliar territory.

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j/c

think how bad it sucks to be 1-17 (.055) as a head coach for a franchise ... regardless of the talent level or what people think of your coaching ability, it has to be tough


"First down inside the 10. A score here likely puts us in the Super Bowl. Landry is far to the left as Hooper settles into the slot. OBJ is flanked out wide to the right. Chubb and Hunt are split in the backfield as Baker takes the snap ... Here we go."
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Originally Posted By: TONY
Originally Posted By: lampdogg
We need to be patient. The loss at baltimore was disappointing, but we are only two weeks into the season, 20 months into the new regime, 2 games into a season with a starting rookie QB, and many young starters. A loss in Baltimore, even one where we get beat badly, is not a big deal.
We have a lot of whiny fans, too. I suggest some of you snap out of your bitch-mode.
I want Hue to succeed, but so far it seems all the fired coaches did a much better job. Lets see what happens in the next month...
LOL


Exciting football will be back in Cleveland this fall!
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