DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Everything Else... European New Years Eve coordinated attacks

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2016-01-09...s-boiling-point

Why is there so little dialogue about this topic?

I guess there's little dialogue about it if you're living under a rock.

It's been on international headlines for a while now.

Guess I meant as dawgtalkers, we haven't discussed it and I wonder why? Think it's time.

Curious to see what ya'll are thinking. Did I miss something? I have been on hit and miss lately. Didn't see a thread.

I'd more like to know why the German government tried to cover up the attacks. I think Germany might be getting a little tired of leaving out their welcome mat.

The Germans are trying to keep it on the low because Markel is a screw up in every sense of the word.

She declares that the door is open for refugees.

Then bails out Greece for the third time, against the wishes of pretty much the entire country.

If you ever been to Germany, one thing you'll notice is that they try very hard to be completely different from their nazi history. They want no part of it, and they still find, capture, and try former SS officers on a regular basis.

So that's why they welcomed hem with open arms, because their past is still relevant, at least with regards to other European countries who still view them as nazis.

And when I mean other European countries, I mean all of them.

Right now they are trying to find a balance between being a country that welcomes everybody, and a country that still wants to keep their culture.

It's also why the country is effective split. My wife says they should still welcome the refugees in, as it's only a minority of them doing the attacks.

I told her that's the wrong thinking.

She then responded with "oh right, because America is the gold standard of treating blacks with respect"

Didn't have a response for that.

I think they stuff going on in Koln could've been avoided if the Germans weren't so welcoming.

But listening to my wife, I can't really argue so much with the reasoning.

The fact that these attacks were coordinated throughout several cities is a concern for me. Is there a clash of culture possibility within countries that open their borders to mass entry of migrants who have little to no intent of assimilation into the culture of that country.

Appears to be a lack of respect for women in a host of various worldly cultures.

Swish, would your wife have those same thoughts if one of your daughters fell victim to this type of attack? It only takes a one of the bad apples in the "minority" to ruin a person's life forever.

Well my wife was sexually assaulted by one of her own German family members when she was a child.

By your logic, she should feel like all the Germans should be out of the country.

Who do you think she should have more contempt for?

The lack of respect for women isn't a culture thing, it's a world wide problem no matter what country they come from.

We have thousands of rapes happen right here in American, by American men.

Now, you need to understand that I'm in agreement with you that Muslims have made the problem worse than it is. You're not gonna get an argument from me with that, C.

But where I think the disconnect come from is that you guys see my to have this idea that this problem never happened until all of a sudden the Muslims showed up, which is false.

Europe has a nasty track record of human trafficking and disrespecting women, and that has nothing to do with Muslims, but their own people doing it.

I don't justify disgusting acts like this, as I hope every person who is caught is put down like dogs. But what I am saying is that lets not act like Europe didn't have a disrespecting women problem prior to this.

So....... would/could we call this mass coordinated attack terrorism?

In your wife's case, no. It was one individual who she knew. I would agree, the logic does not apply.

However, this case was not isolated, it was not one individual, it was simultaneously coordinated and it was perpetrated by individuals with different cultural backgrounds, as reported, it ocurred in several different areas at the same time. According to witnesses, perpetrators were given specific directives regarding locations to carry out the attacks.

I disagree that much of the disresepct for the female gender is culturally driven and a worldwide issue that must be addressed. The point is, we will have a cultural clash when some expect their women to: submit to them at any time of their choosing, walk behind them, have several male witnesses to rape and cover their bodies according to their culture values and mores.

Nobody suggested there was no problem prior to this. I am, however, suggesting we need to look seriously at it and begin a dialogue about how we might address these issues in the future.

By your logic of "let's not act like Europe didn't have a disrespecting women problem prior to this", there would be no need to discuss race, abuse, abortion and an entire host of other societal issues that we have discussed over and over on this forum.

I'd be behind all of this reasoning more if they weren't coordinated attacks.
That alone negates any argument that attempts to deflect with suggestions of "but, we had the problem anyway".

THIS problem is not the same as the other existing problem you describe. The act is the same, perhaps, but the problem is very, very, very different. Completely different.

I consider this a terrorist attack. Let's make that clear.

The reason I brought my idea up is because we've discussed over and over again these sort of issues.

all its going to develop into is yet another Muslim bashing thread.

You can disagree with me all you want, but the reality is that disrespecting women is a world wide problem, and isn't isolated into one culture.

If you disagree, then can you explain to me and the board why you never bring up the white eorpeans that human traffick women and children?

What about the yakuza and triads that human traffick Asian women?

How about the way women are treated right here in America by American men?

What about the genital multalation they do to African women in Africa?

You think it's a culture problem. I think it's a world wide problem. There can't possibly be any dialogue on the future if we can't even agree on that base point.

That is a response to both you and purp.

The worst part of this, IMO, is the stubbornness of the German government in their kumbaya attitude on this issue.

The gov't response? Suggesting "education" for the refugees about "European sexual mores."

Seriously? You think they just don't know any better?

I find it quite disconcerting that because we do not agree on the "basic premise" we can't talk about it. Actually, that is when the most productive and educational dialogue might occur.

I'm game!

The other issues you mentioned are a concern of mine and have been for decades. we have discussed many of them. I find it best to keep a thread topic narrow and to the point, even though we all tend to stray.

My most passionate interests are children, education and the safety of this country. I prefer/choose to discuss issues or topic when I feel, repeat, I FEEL, that I have something productive to offer the conversation.

I have a feeling we can and will have dialogue, my friend.

Yes, but to Swish's point, until it got out, it was not totally contrary to the norm. When it got out to the remainder of the world, it then became a national issue that required them to address it. And the German people are demanding it be addressed.

Aight C. I'm game, as well. Let's do it.

So what makes you think this isn't a worldwide problem, but a cultural one?

I've laid out multiple examples showing that no matter what region of the world, Inhumane and/or substandard treatment of women isn't tunneled into one specific culture.

And the culture we are talking about, so we can stop beating around the bush, is Islam.

Why can it not be both cultural and worldwide? That happens to be how I see it. It may be Islamic in nature in this circumstance, however, I am not willing to limit it at that.

In many cultures around the world, women are viewed as nothing more than a vehicle by which to perpetuate the species.

My concern in this circumstance is:

-it was against women
-it was coordinated
-it was carried out by migrants
-it was, at least in the early stages, ignored and covered up
-it may be ocurring right here in this country
-it may be a systematic terror plan to gradually desensitize otherwise law abiding, steeped in culture logical thinking people
-it may be a sick way of jump starting Sharia through desensitization

We are not really as polar opposite on this subject as you are suggesting.

You never answered my question about how your wife would feel about a similar attack on your daughter carried out by migrants. Perhaps she would continue to say bring them on. That would certainly be OK if that is her mindset. I have a sneaking suspicion, however, her love would trump (no pun) logic and she would have a change of heart. Next time you talk, ask her. I would be curious to know.

For your reading pleasure and education

http://www.fnsa.org/v1n3/brennan1.html

well i think it's both, but you're the one who tried to narrow it down to a culture problem. all i did was simply refute that point.

in many cultures? try pretty much any country, women are viewed as what you described.

you see it all the time here in the states, it's just wwaaaaayyyy more subtle. you can name a ton of athletes, musicians, probably politicians as well, regardless of race, and come to the conclusion that they are married to nothing more than Trophy wives here in the states.

remember, C, we live in a planet where no matter what part of the world you live, you can more or less buy a chick from the internet, pay for her papers, and bam! she's your wife.

oh, and by the way, one of the biggest markets for buying women is ukrainian and russian women.

those ain't muslims. those are whites. not a culture problem. worldwide problem.


hell, 4 migrant women decided to do a job american women wouldn't, and that's have sex with trump.

that's why i say it's a world wide problem. because when you start looking at the examples, it's less to do with culture, and more to do with....well, men being primitive men.

as far as this crapfest going on in Germany-which by the way, wasn't just in Germany, it happened in other countries as well during the same time span of new years- you gotta ask the people that are from there.

so i decided to ask my wife, like you asked. i didn't like the response, as i already told you how i felt about the muslims in europe.

the problem with asking my wife is that since she's already experienced that from a german person, which happened to be a family member, if it happened to my daughters, she would be pissed, but then chalk it up to a typical man wanting to be dominate over a female. she doesn't see race/religion like we do here in america. that's my wife's response.

so my wife is the wrong candidate, you're gonna have to ask somebody else who didn't go through something like that, that's from germany.

but that boils down to another point. the mindset we have as americans is generally different than the mindset of europeans.

the only two people i can think that have actually extensively lived in a different country besides myself is FBH and Victor.

just visiting a country isn't gonna give you insight to anything.

the idea that it's a systematic terror plan to desensitize the people, once again doesn't take into account the mindset.

as un american as this sounds, the fact is that the terrorist have already won here. we're scared. we view life differently, we act differently with people that even look muslim. hell, we're so scared that we beat up on hindu's here in america because we can't even tell the difference.

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/hindu-beaten-because-hes-muslim/

there's also a number of other situations i can link, whether it's being beaten or being harassed.

Clevesteve mentioned a few post ago he doesn't understand the kumbya mentality of the germans.

My wife said the same thing the French minister said:

the moment we give into terrorism is the moment they win. we can't allow them to change who we are as people, as germans who care about taking care of people less fortunate than us, or else we will be just as barbaric. fighting violence with violence is exactly why the situation has yet to be solved.

now, my wife is a bit of a hippy, and while i don't agree completely, i understand that mentality.

you kick out the people that break the laws. it's as simple as that. they break the laws, deport them and never allow them back in. execute them if it's sever enough.

honestly i'm just numb to this kind of stuff anymore, so long as, it doesn't happen in the USA. I view the world war that is brewing as inevitable.

I totally respect what your wife had to say as well and what you say. Please thank her for the input. It is invaluable. Oh, there is not a candidate" here. This is not a contest to get ideas that align or support an opinion. Just seeking a variety of thoughts from a board that is vastly different in thought and opinion. I would also suggest that, just because there is dialogue about something does not necessarily mean there is fright.

I feel MLK would strongly disagree with that notion.

I am concerned and feel that we, as Americans, need to be prudent in the manner in which we go about our lives.....whatever that means for each of us.

Some of your statements could be construed as things that have been ongoing in this country for decades. They are not necessarily new.

we're so scared that we beat up on hindu's here in america because we can't even tell the difference.

we act differently with people that even look muslim

I could add that some act differently toward people who are not black, yellow, orange, brown etc..

For some, this is a way of life. Unfortunately, this is not going to change in the near term. But, dialogue will enhance the possibilities just as it enhances our understanding on this board.

Razor's comment above is concerning to me. I know this is how many feel. However, if we wait until it comes here, if it hasn't already, it is too late.

This opinion may be the stem of what is desensitizing Americans. IMO, desensitization is occuring right now in this country. Your reference to athletes, musicians and politicians is accurate. It does occur in this country. So, why would we invite more from cultures who we know go against the fabric of this nation? I'm referencing freedom as teh fabric of the nation. When women are demeaned, disrespected and repeatedly assaulted, the are not living freely.

Sorry it took me so long to reply. Our son had a concert last evening and I worked today.