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#1645617 - 08/03/19 08:26 PM Re: Film Room: Browns Defense [Re: Versatile Dog]
cfrs15 Offline

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Originally Posted By: Versatile Dog
I am okay w/the rest of your post, but I really have no idea how your answer is connected to what I said in this part.

Quote:
Originally Posted By: Versatile Dog
That isn't really accurate. Williams played a lot of only two linebacker sets when he was w/the Rams. I think he played 3 LBers here because our strong safeties sucked so bad in coverage. Peppers was bad in coverage and the other dude...what was his name...Kindred....was even worse.


Gregg Williams played three linebackers less in 2018 than he did in 2017 but he still played a base defense way more than the league average despite having Damarious Randall and Jabrill Peppers. In 2018 we played base 31% of the time (7th in the league). I'd be it'd be a bit higher if Kirksey and Schobert didn't get hurt. In 2017 we were in base 66% of the time.

Compare that to Wilks' Cardinals defense which was only in base 10% of the time last year. With the Panthers Wilks was in base 50% of the time but the metrics lie a little bit because they count Shaq Thompson as a linebacker when he is really more of a hybrid Jabrill Peppers type player.


And I am not sure I even want you to answer because I am getting a funny feeling that you may be trying to represent what I said incorrectly. I clearly brought up that Williams played w/2 LBers in LA. I believe he played 3 here because our safeties were terrible in coverage his first year and only Randall could cover the second year.


I was just trying to point out that despite playing much less base defense in 2018 we still played base way more than other teams (especially the Cardinals).

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#1645618 - 08/03/19 08:26 PM Re: Film Room: Browns Defense [Re: cfrs15]
Versatile Dog Offline

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Wait.............there is something else.

You quoted this:

Quote:
My guess is this will be exploited by getting athletic TEs and slot WRs on the safety who is not named Randall.


However, you did not quote what I was responding to. I was responding to the safeties being interchangeable. I think this is a mistake and that Randall should be the FS and whoever the other guy is should be playing SS. That was my point. You don't want a guy like Burnett playing the deep safety..............in my opinion.

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#1645619 - 08/03/19 08:29 PM Re: Film Room: Browns Defense [Re: Versatile Dog]
cfrs15 Offline

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Originally Posted By: Versatile Dog
Wait.............there is something else.

You quoted this:

Quote:
My guess is this will be exploited by getting athletic TEs and slot WRs on the safety who is not named Randall.


However, you did not quote what I was responding to. I was responding to the safeties being interchangeable. I think this is a mistake and that Randall should be the FS and whoever the other guy is should be playing SS. That was my point. You don't want a guy like Burnett playing the deep safety..............in my opinion.


Got it. I didn't quote what you were responding to because the post was getting really messy format wise.

My guess is that we won't really see Morgan Burnett very often and if/when Randall is playing closer to the line of scrimmage than the other safety will be Whitehead or Burris or Redwine or Harris.

(Side note: I wouldn't be shocked if Burnett didn't make the team.)

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#1645620 - 08/03/19 08:32 PM Re: Film Room: Browns Defense [Re: cfrs15]
Versatile Dog Offline

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So which other safety do you think will play a lot of FS? And are you disagreeing w/me that we might be better served to keep Randall at FS instead of interchanging them?

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#1645635 - 08/03/19 08:52 PM Re: Film Room: Browns Defense [Re: GratefulDawg]
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I could have sworn that Freddie Kitchens said just this week that they had no depth chart as of yet.
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#1645636 - 08/03/19 08:52 PM Re: Film Room: Browns Defense [Re: FL_Dawg]
cfrs15 Offline

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Originally Posted By: FL_Dawg
I could have sworn that Freddie Kitchens said just this week that they had no depth chart as of yet.


Freddie Kitchens lied.

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#1645719 - 08/04/19 05:18 AM Re: Film Room: Browns Defense [Re: cfrs15]
Ballpeen Offline

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Originally Posted By: cfrs15
Originally Posted By: FL_Dawg
I could have sworn that Freddie Kitchens said just this week that they had no depth chart as of yet.


Freddie Kitchens lied.


I wouldn't call it a lie. Lets just say they haven't released one at this point. There may be a few positions that are unsettled, but the coaches have a pretty good idea most of the way through the starting line-up.
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#1645756 - 08/04/19 10:20 AM Re: Film Room: Browns Defense [Re: Versatile Dog]
guard dawg Offline

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Originally Posted By: Versatile Dog
So which other safety do you think will play a lot of FS? And are you disagreeing w/me that we might be better served to keep Randall at FS instead of interchanging them?


I'm going to split hairs on this one. I agree that Randall is the best option at FS and should play the majority of snaps at that position. There is going to be somebody listed as the #2 FS, we can be sure of that. But your question says "a lot". I think Redwine and Burris, maybe Carrie, Murry or Dean could take limited reps at that spot if a particular down and distance situation moves Randall. Although I can't come up with a good reason for moving him out of position.

This is all hypothetical, of course.
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#1645763 - 08/04/19 10:33 AM Re: Film Room: Browns Defense [Re: cfrs15]
eotab Offline

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Originally Posted By: cfrs15
Originally Posted By: eotab
Just who is "TAYLOR" SAM???

I always thought it would be Avery or King playing SAM



Avery is strictly an edge rusher. I don’t know who King is.

Don’t worry about the third linebacker, we won’t be using him much. Wilks’ defense in Arizona played sets with less than three linebackers 86% of the time last year.


Dont' know why King pops up in my head for Mack Wilson...lol laugh

Avery is more than an edge rusher he has size and quickness and improved with each game last year. I expect to see him a lot at SAM...

Now if this kid Taylor happens to be a TE Coverage guy extraordinaire then I can understand. We will see Maybe its just him cause the other at SAM is Avery.

Avery I see as "GREAT" in the long run. Taylor (without seeing him for a year) I can assume he is smart and get himself in good position to make plays - He better be quick/fast for a LB and excellent in coverage. Can't tell me he can blitz better than Avery in a 2 point stance. Avery is a WEAPON We will see.
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#1645855 - 08/04/19 03:16 PM Re: Film Room: Browns Defense [Re: eotab]
cfrs15 Offline

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Originally Posted By: eotab
Avery is more than an edge rusher he has size and quickness and improved with each game last year. I expect to see him a lot at SAM...


Avery has not practiced at linebacker at all this off-season.

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#1645869 - 08/04/19 04:19 PM Re: Film Room: Browns Defense [Re: cfrs15]
Dawgs4Life Offline

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Yeah, it really seems they want him as a pass rusher and that’s it
Originally Posted By: cfrs15
Originally Posted By: eotab
Avery is more than an edge rusher he has size and quickness and improved with each game last year. I expect to see him a lot at SAM...


Avery has not practiced at linebacker at all this off-season.
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#1656389 - 09/02/19 10:51 AM Re: Film Room: Browns Defense [Re: Haus]
GratefulDawg Online   content

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Olivier Vernon: Browns brewing up ‘something special’

https://www.cantonrep.com/sports/20190901/olivier-vernon-browns-brewing-up-something-special

Larry Ogunjobi says advice from Olivier Vernon and Sheldon Richardson has been huge as the Browns’ D-line aims to dominate out of the 2019 gate.


BEREA The NFL is forever unleashing nobodies who wind up mattering.

Two bolts out of the blue hope to strike Sunday for teams aiming to rule the AFC North. The Browns boast Devaroe Lawrence, who spent the preseason in quarterbacks’ faces (four sacks) after spending most of 2018 on the practice squad. The only NFL player with as many as five preseason sacks was Pittsburgh’s Tuzar Skipper, an undrafted rookie out of Toledo.

It remains to be seen whether the August buzz they built can last into mid-November, when the Browns and Steelers collide in the first of their two meetings.

For now, Pittsburgh must worry about a Sunday night opener at New England. Tennessee will play at Cleveland earlier in the day.

The Browns seem loaded on the defensive line. Lawrence and others offer intriguing depth behind a potentially lights-out starting foursome with 21 pro seasons of experience.

Two of the starters hung out after the preseason finale, sharing laughs and entertaining questions.

There was Olivier Vernon, who barely played in August, but sacked Jameis Winston twice when he did. There was Larry Ogunjobi, a third-year pro aiming to make a jump.

Vernon said he is “enjoying every second” on a team intent on brewing up “something special.” He was an injured New York Giant last September, but in the first game he played, he sacked Carson Wentz.

In Sheldon Richardson’s 2018 opener, with Minnesota, he sacked Jimmy Garoppolo.

Returnees who played in the Browns’ 21-21 tie with Pittsburgh last Sept. 9 include Myles Garrett (two sacks of Ben Roethlisberger in that opener), Ogunjobi (sack plus a tackle for loss) and Genard Avery (sack). Mix Lawrence and 2018 Round 3 pick Chad Thomas (sack in the preseason finale) and ...

“Shoot,” said Vernon, “we’re very young and very talented. We’ve just got to put everything together. This organization is very hungry. Very, VERY hungry. And I see that.”

Vernon and Richardson both will turn 29 during the season. No 2018 Browns D-lineman had anything approaching their experience.

Ogunjobi was a backup as a rookie Round 3 pick in 2017. He started all 16 games last year. He was listening nearby when someone asked Vernon what advice he might offer.

Ogunjobi butted in with the answer: “Have patience.”

Vernon smiled and said, “Exactly, man. It doesn’t happen overnight.”

“Larry’s got all the tools he needs,” Vernon said. “I’ve been in the game a little while. Sheldon and I are the oldest when it comes to years on the defensive line. Part of why we’re here is spreading knowledge.

“I appreciate that the young guys are willing to listen. If I was in their position, I’d want to know the same things.”

In Pittsburgh, the 3-4-based Steelers have kept 10 linebackers, including Tuzar Skipper. The 4-3-based Browns initially kept 10 defensive linemen, if you count “linebacker” Genard Avery, whose biggest asset, the coaches say, is pass rushing.

Garrett, the D-line’s biggest name, remains the youngest man in the group, at 23. Ogunjobi turned 25 in June, but he didn’t take up football until well into his high school days.

“I want to be the best at what I do,” Ogunjobi said, “and that requires asking a lot of questions. I’m a sponge around Olivier and Sheldon, because really this game is from the neck up when you get to this level.

“That’s who I go to ... Olivier and Sheldon. It’s a blessing to have older guys. For sure.”

Steve Wilks is getting older. The Browns’ new defensive coordinator turned 50 the day of the preseason opener, a 30-10 win over Washington.

“New” has worked out wonderfully for him more than once. He was the new defensive backs coach in Chicago the season the Bears ripped New Orleans 39-14 in the NFC title game. He was promoted to assistant head coach in Carolina in 2015, when the Panthers smoked Arizona 49-15 in the NFC finals.

It was early August when Wilks said of the defensive line, “You can see right now it is going to be the strength of our team.”

The starters didn’t play much in the preseason.

“Once you get close to the season,” Ogunjobi said, “they want to save your legs and make sure everything is straight.

“Now it’s time to play. I’m really excited. I can’t wait. It should be really fun.”

Vernon has been waiting a long time to have any real NFL fun. Ogunjobi hadn’t yet taken up football when Vernon was rushing Ohio State quarterback Terrelle Pryor on a September Saturday in 2010. As a pro, Vernon’s record in playoff games (four seasons in Miami, three with the Giants) is 0-1.

It’s opening week. His new team is undefeated.

“In camp, in the games,” he said with a glint in his eye, “the young guys have been ballin’.”
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#1656395 - 09/02/19 10:55 AM Re: Film Room: Browns Defense [Re: Haus]
Dawgs4Life Offline

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Vernon was maybe the biggest positive this preseason ... he really showed me a great ability to disrupt and affect our team
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"First down as we threaten again. A score here puts us in the Super Bowl. Odell is far to the left as Landry settles into the slot. Njoku is flanked out wide to the right. Chubb and Hunt are split in the backfield as Baker takes the snap ... Here we go."

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#1692103 - 11/14/19 10:00 AM Re: Film Room: Browns Defense [Re: Haus]
cfrs15 Offline

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Blitz more they said!


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#1692107 - 11/14/19 10:03 AM Re: Film Room: Browns Defense [Re: cfrs15]
oobernoober Online   content

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If this metric was posted up earlier (after week 3 or 4) I would wholeheartedly agree. I thought our Dline was doing an excellent job harassing QBs. We were going against more mobile QBs, so the pressure didn't really translate into sacks, but the hurries were there.

I feel like this has kinda fallen off the last couple games.
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#1692113 - 11/14/19 10:17 AM Re: Film Room: Browns Defense [Re: oobernoober]
willitevachange Offline
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Originally Posted By: oobernoober
If this metric was posted up earlier (after week 3 or 4) I would wholeheartedly agree. I thought our Dline was doing an excellent job harassing QBs. We were going against more mobile QBs, so the pressure didn't really translate into sacks, but the hurries were there.

I feel like this has kinda fallen off the last couple games.
We gave Den and Buff allllll day to throw. We cant do that with Mason. He is king dump off, and we struggle tackling.

he will take dump off after dump off, and they will get 5,6,7 yards each time because we cant tackle.

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#1692266 - 11/14/19 03:34 PM Re: Film Room: Browns Defense [Re: willitevachange]
Bard Dawg Offline

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This idea that our LB can hang with a slot or RB out to the sidelines is horribly wrong. Our zone is a spectator sport back there. May as well send an extra guy, because we aren't getting there. Not like we have seen our D work well back there. Not often enough.
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#1694800 - 11/15/19 12:39 PM Re: Film Room: Browns Defense [Re: Haus]
Swish Offline

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jc

so, how's everyone liking greedy williams play?

overall, he's doing fine as a rookie. still dunno why he got the start over mitchell but whatever.

I think him and Ward are gonna turn out to be quite the tandem.
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#1694808 - 11/15/19 12:43 PM Re: Film Room: Browns Defense [Re: Swish]
WSU Willie Offline

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Originally Posted By: Swish
jc

so, how's everyone liking greedy williams play?

overall, he's doing fine as a rookie. still dunno why he got the start over mitchell but whatever.

I think him and Ward are gonna turn out to be quite the tandem.


I'm liking him just fine...perplexed by the lack of Mitchell tho.

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#1694916 - 11/15/19 02:32 PM Re: Film Room: Browns Defense [Re: Haus]
oobernoober Online   content

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Anyone know when we get Vernon and Murray back?
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#1694982 - 11/15/19 05:56 PM Re: Film Room: Browns Defense [Re: oobernoober]
PortlandDawg Online   content

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Originally Posted By: oobernoober
Anyone know when we get Vernon and Murray back?


No doubt we need Vernon back badly now. Any chance we can swap that pick back for Avery?

There were some speculating he’d practice this past week. He didn’t. My hope is Vernon will be back by our next meeting with the black and yellow. My hope is he continues the beatdown on Rudolph... in a totally legal, penalty free way... but a beatdown none the less. I hope we ‘ruin’ Rudolph’s career by making him hear footsteps with every drop back. throwinh a bunch more picks along the way. Much like the Steelers helped to do to so many of our PTSD riddled young QBs over the past 20 years. May they find themselves mired in another decades long run of Kordells, Bristers, Malones, O’Donnells, Tomzacks.... hopefully Rudolph is added to that scrap pile. Not for last knight’s ordeals either. I’ve wished this for every AFCN rival, but especially the black and yellow, from the day we came back and watched Couch, and others, get destroyed.
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