DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Palus Politicus What If?

Trump is doing and saying everything he can think of to discredit the Mueller Report.

What if, when the report comes out, that it clears him of all wrong doing?

Is it still a witch hunt? or is it Fake News?

If Trump did something illegal he should be impeached. If nothing comes of the report it would lend some credence to it being a witch hunt. If he gets impeached he is going to the grave calling it fake news. It what he does, he is an adult male who has never been held accountable for anything in his life. This is how they act.


Reading the tea leaves though, I can see that the left is very worried that nothing is going to come of this report, because the level of confidence was sky high when it started and now I already hear backpedaling. I personally don't care either way, lock him up if he's guilty. I never did understand the personal relationship some people have with a president. The way this is trending, the recent articles I've seen already distancing themselves from the report.

If it clears him of all wrongdoing I will be surprised but accept it. However I think there is plenty that we already know about trump from the other investigations to know he's a crooked scumbag.

What I expect is a report that does not fully explain all the Russian connections with Trump and his family members and does not charge them with crimes. And if that happens will it mean they are innocent or that there was not enough evidence to charge or indict them?

Mueller's orders to investigate Russian interference with the 2016 election has yielded indictments and implicated Top aides and Russians. His orders to investigate any other crimes discovered has yielded indictments and convictions.

The spin off investigations, which I consider part of the Mueller investigation are really just getting started, who knows how many indictments they will produce.

So with all of this taken into consideration, I find it unfathomable that trump is 'clear' regardless of what Barr let's us hear about. I think the real report will be coming from the house investigations and any secret indictments sitting on the shelf until Trump leaves office.

I'd say the left is more worried about how it will be handled and what options are available to deal with that information. With the Senate GOP acting like trump's lap dogs, impeachment is useless. So even if Mueller proves Trump shot somebody on 5th ave, he will probably get away with it for now.

Meanwhile, a failed or ongoing attempt to impeach Trump in the run up to 2020 will just be used to resolidify the GOP base to circle the wagons. But proving Trump is crooked and sketchy, while not trying to impeach due to GOP Senate acting like an extension of the oval office will certainly open the eyes of those toward the middle that see it for what it is. So the best strategy may be getting out the facts and letting America decide at the ballot box.

I think the left is tempering their rhetoric a bit,, Not sure why. This Mueller team has already resulted in a bunch of Indictments and guilty pleas. It's already shown what kind of people Trump thinks "are the best"!

For me, it's already been a success but the question is, he's beating the hell out of it everyday and in every way, what if it clears him... He's said it's not real, it's fake.... So if it clears him, is it still fake? That's the question

If it clears him?... That possibility is infinitesimally small, but if it absolutely clears him of all suspicion and guilt, then yes he would have a hard time explaining how it's not fake at that point.

if trump is cleared then my fellow liberals need to move the hell on. admit that we had serious concerns, but then ultimately side with mueller.

the last thing people need to do is support mueller then turn around and trash him because they didn't get the results they wanted. don't be like the MAGA hatters with hillary when the GOP and FBI didn't deliver the results they wanted.

i will say this: trump's comments on the mueller report lately implies a guy who thinks the report isn't gonna clear him whatsoever.

So Far on "the Russia thing"-This was from end of Jan this year

Trump-Russia Investigation

15 months

34 Indictments/Charges (Individuals) (and counting)

3 Indictments/Charges (Companies)
5 GUILTY pleas (and counting)
4 CONVICTIONS (and counting)

Indicted: Roger Stone
Indicted: Paul Manafort
Indicted: Rick Gates
Indicted: George Papadopoulos
Indicted: Michael Flynn
Indicted: Michael Cohen
Indicted: Richard Pinedo
Indicted: Alex van der Zwaan
Indicted: Konstantin Kilimnik
Indicted: 12 Russian GRU officers
Indicted: Yevgeny Prigozhin
Indicted: Mikhail Burchik
Indicted: Aleksandra Krylova
Indicted: Anna Bogacheva
Indicted: Sergey Polozov
Indicted: Maria Bovda
Indicted: Dzheykhun Aslanov
Indicted: Vadim Podkopaev
Indicted: Irina Kaverzina
Indicted: Gleb Vasilchenko
Indicted: Internet Research Agency
Indicted: Concord Management

Guilty Plea: Michael Flynn
Guilty Plea: Michael Cohen
Guilty Plea: George Papadopolous
Guilty Plea: Richard Pinedo
Guilty Plea: Alex van der Zwaan
Guilty Plea: Rick Gates

Over 191 Criminal Charges (and counting):

Conspiracy against the USA (2 counts)
Conspiracy to launder money (2 counts)
Bank fraud (8 counts)
Bank fraud conspiracy (10 counts)
Subscribing to false tax returns (10 counts)
Making false statements (6 counts)
Failure to file reports of foreign bank accounts (14 counts)
Unregistered agent of a foreign principal (2 counts)
False FARA statements (2 counts)
Subscribing to false tax returns (10 counts)

Assisting in preparation of false tax documents (5 counts)
Conspiracy to defraud the United States (13 counts)
Conspiracy to commit wire fraud and bank fraud (2 counts)
Aggravated identity theft (24 counts)

All the Mueller report can do is clear him of collusion if none was found.

It won't address a myriad of other ethical and legal questions that surround Trump. And if you notice, that's all that Trump even claims he's not guilty of.

But here's the catch in all of this. He has his supporters believing that collusion is all that matters. That any crimes he's committed before being elected don't even matter. But they do.

I've actually seen some of his supporters claim that looking at anything other than collusion is nothing more than a witch hunt.

They seem to believe that if law enforcement is looking at a suspect for dealing drugs, that if you find reason to suspect him in a different crime you shouldn't investigate it or bring any charges for any other crimes they have committed. We all know law enforcement doesn't work that way nor should it.

And Mueller could only look at Russia and potential collusion during the 2016 presidency-that is the total limit of his scope.

The rest of the investigations that have opened up can look at everything from the foundation to his business practices to campaign finance to tax fraud/wire fraud-there is no limit on what the SDNY and the house committees can investigate if they have cooperating witnesses and evidence.
And it seems funny that Trump has nothing to hide but now doesn't want to turn over the documents that he has been asked to submit to the feds-and there is no way in hell that he will ever go to a deposition or sit down with Mueller or the investigative committees-he wouldn't get through 10 minutes without lying.

And it seems like more and more people are flipping on him-the only ones that are going to stick by him are his kids and Kush. Anyone else that sticks to Trumps side-their career in Washington will be over and they will probably end up in prison.

Trump will get a short reprieve on Fox news and with his dimwitted 30% if nothing else is found by Mueller-but at some point the other show will drop.

The feds don't give immunity for nothing

I'm still not sure what the Russian investigation part is?

Are they saying Russians hacked our election? Or that they posted propaganda on social media trying to influence the election?

If I understand you correctly, you think that's the limit?

No Sir.. They are also allowed to look at collusion during the campaign... So basically, June 2015 to present and on and on and on.

Not a lawyer, but I was also under the impression that whatever they found in the course of the investigation is also something they could follow through on. Like Manafort, Gates etc.

How can anyone not know what it is about?

It's about whether those in the Trump campaign colluded with Russia to help influence the election and if so how far up the chain of command it went.

I understand the basic premise, but not the details.

What influence are we talking about? That's what I am not clear on.
And why is it talking years to say "Yes he colluded" or "No, he didn't".

Because as much as the media and people try to make it "about him", that actually has nothing to do with it. That's just a bell cow from both sides. It was actually about anyone involved with the Trump campaign that had ties with Russia trying to sway the results of the election and how far up the chain of command it may have gone.

You have many people that this involves and a lot of moving parts that had to be investigated. It's a much more complicated process than most make it out to be.

First, it involves anyone and everyone who may have been involved. Sessions, Manifort, Kushner and many others lied on their disclosure forms about contacts with Russians. While not all of the mistakes made on Kushners disclosure forms were about Russians, he did such a poor job disclosing the truth that he had to amend those forms over 40 times. That's why he couldn't get a top security clearance without Trump forcing them to give him one. So that makes you look extremely suspect from the very beginning and that's why Sessions felt the need to recuse himself from the investigation. He did the right thing there even though Trump has lambasted him for it ever since.

So there were a lot of people and connections that had to be investigated in all of this. That's why it has taken so much time.

Daman,
As I understand it, Mueller was to investigate any Russia-Trump Campaign collusion during the 2016 presidential election and up to now. That is a fairly narrow scope.

And if there are other possible criminal acts that they uncover during their (Mueller) investigation not related to Russia, they are supposed to hand off to appropriate investigative authority

Actually that's not the precedent set.

Kenneth Starr began investigating Bill Clinton over the Whitewater scandal. It ended up being testifying about Monica Lewinski. I know Republicans love this but cry foul when it's Trump.

And my understanding is he's got 7 years.. So so far, he's at roughly 5 counting the campaign.

BREAKING

Report is done, already delivered to AG

It’s Mueller time! Enjoy.

The champagne of special prosecutors?

Don’t have any expectations.

Whatever the report says, just accept it.

We won't know anything for weeks I bet.

AG told congress could be as soon as this weekend.

If it's favorable to Trump. lol

I don't get it, but someone said, someone explained to me this way.

None of the convicitons were for things that occurred before the investigation began. also.

They didn't have a crime, they came up with a person and investigated until they could find a crime.

and.

They can ask you about things so many times, in so many different ways and continue until when they find something that doesn't agree with a previous statement, Then they have you for lying, and these are the convictions they've gotten.

And. These things ^ won't be explained on the popular news sources.

It makes me feel all warm and fuzzy inside that you disagree with me here.



Maybe you should look at it this way......

If you're investigating a person for committing a robbery and in the process find out they committed fraud, should you not charge them with fraud?

Because that's what's happened so far in this case. When evidence is found you committed a crime, it's the duty of a prosecutor to go after a prosecution for the crime he has evidence you committed.

Everything else is just excuses why a "fine upstanding man" like Trump decided to surround himself with criminals.

Thats because they are half truths and misdirection.

This is why Special Counsel handed over any investigative fruit not pertinent/germane to the Russian Interference to DC District and SDNY. Those (alleged) crimes will be investigated separate from any federal inquiry... and prosecuted under state statutes if warranted.

HBO comic/talk show host Bill Maher is convinced that Individual One will try to set himself up as 'President for Life' because he knows that his immunity from prosecution ends at the same moment as his term in office- and he'll be hauled in front of state benches for crimes he's been committing for the past 30-40 years.

I find that preposterous. If he tried something like that, the Courts would stop him. If he tried to barricade himself in the Oval Office, Federal Marshals will haul him off the grounds. He'd be Citizen Trump at that moment, and guilty of criminal trespass. That would be a new federal crime, probably prosecuted after the numerous state level charges Citizen Trump would face.

This dumbass' own hubris will be his downfall. He should have stayed in the private sector, where he could skirt laws, act like a 3rd level Mafia don and never get the level of scrutiny assigned to a President of the United States of America. In the fullness of time, it's all going to come out now.

Pulling back to a wide-angle lens, it's already too late for this d00d. He may make it through his presidential term without an impeachment, but his legal trouble will more than likely follow him until his body reaches room temperature.

After an entire adult life of sketchy behavior, it is to be expected.
Never should have run for office.

.02

I don't think Maher said he would actually be able to pull it off. Only that he would try it.

Let's face it both Trump and Steven Miller are helping fan the flames of this.

Steven miller tweeted this... "One side has about 8 trillion bullets while the other side doesn't know which bathroom to use.”

Then there was Trump working up the Breitbart crowd with this.... " “So here’s the thing—it’s so terrible what’s happening,” Trump said when asked by Breitbart News Washington Political Editor Matthew Boyle about how the left is fighting hard. “You know, the left plays a tougher game, it’s very funny. I actually think that the people on the right are tougher, but they don’t play it tougher. Okay? I can tell you I have the support of the police, the support of the military, the support of the Bikers for Trump – I have the tough people, but they don’t play it tough — until they go to a certain point, and then it would be very bad, very bad. "

They're starting to beat the drums for civil unrest if he loses. It's only going to get worse.