x

Page 7 of 10 < 1 2 ... 5 6 7 8 9 10 >
Topic Options
#1702298 - 12/03/19 04:49 PM Re: Kitchen's not worried about job security. [Re: Knight_Of_Brown]
MemphisBrownie Offline

Legend

Registered: 03/01/13
Posts: 10892
Loc: Southern Shores of Lake Erie
j/c:



Dang.
_________________________
"We'll see how much Brat...errr..........Baker improves w/out Hue in his way."

Top
#1702303 - 12/03/19 05:01 PM Re: Kitchen's not worried about job security. [Re: BarkinMad]
Iluvmyxstripper Offline
Dawg Talker

Registered: 01/01/15
Posts: 1663
Freddie acts some southern frat boy from
Ozark State College
Wearing that shirt was a reflection of his inability to be a focused mature HC.
There's a reason why hes never been a HC ever
Before in his football career
Does Tomlin or Shanahan wear shirts like that ?

Top
#1702305 - 12/03/19 05:07 PM Re: Kitchen's not worried about job security. [Re: BarkinMad]
BpG Offline

Hall of Famer

Registered: 09/10/06
Posts: 9359
Loc: Columbus, Ohio
This team is extremely young and learning how to win. All this panic is unwarranted. Blowing it up is asinine.

I saw a team beat up the Steelers, Blow out the best team int he AFC (Ravens), Beat the 9-3 Bills, dismantle the Dolphins and lose an ugly one on the road.....by 7 points to the Steelers.


Yeah, they are up and down, it's a rookie HC and a bunch of players under 26, that's what you get. Blowing it all up isn't the answer.

Top
#1702310 - 12/03/19 05:16 PM Re: Kitchen's not worried about job security. [Re: Iluvmyxstripper]
PitDAWG Offline

Legend

Registered: 09/10/06
Posts: 37701
Loc: Smyrna, TN.
Originally Posted By: Iluvmyxstripper
Does Tomlin or Shanahan wear shirts like that ?


Well they lack a sense of fashion. So there's that.
_________________________
Sashi Brown was so bad at his job in Cleveland, no other NFL team would even offer him a job. He has been relegated to being in charge of "the culture" of an NBA team. Oh how the mighty have fallen.

#gmstrong

Top
#1702314 - 12/03/19 05:39 PM Re: Kitchen's not worried about job security. [Re: Iluvmyxstripper]
Hammer Offline
Dawg Talker

Registered: 01/19/17
Posts: 1184
Loc: Scituate, RI
Tomlin only trips players on kickoffs, so no, he would not have worn that shirt.

Top
#1702325 - 12/03/19 06:19 PM Re: Kitchen's not worried about job security. [Re: BarkinMad]
HotBYoungTurk Offline

Legend

Registered: 10/01/06
Posts: 11549
Loc: Atlanta, GA
IMO, Ravens game will be the tell tale of Kitchens future with the organization.
_________________________

Top
#1702330 - 12/03/19 06:31 PM Re: Kitchen's not worried about job security. [Re: BarkinMad]
boofers20 Offline
1st String

Registered: 10/26/15
Posts: 412
Tony Dungy for 2020 and beyond!!

Top
#1702352 - 12/03/19 08:14 PM Re: Kitchen's not worried about job security. [Re: BarkinMad]
lampdogg Offline

Legend

Registered: 09/11/06
Posts: 10872
Loc: east coast Canada
Kitchens and Dorsey will be here in 2020.

When we were winning three in a row, the anti-kitchens chatter died down. Lose in Pitt, it heats up again. I wanted to keep GW and have said it many times, but that didn’t happen and now I believe he deserves at least another year.

Coaches CAN improve.
_________________________


gmstrong

-----------------

2020: The Browns take the North.

Top
#1702356 - 12/03/19 08:35 PM Re: Kitchen's not worried about job security. [Re: BarkinMad]
chirp30 Offline
Practice Squad

Registered: 02/28/15
Posts: 174
When the Browns lose to the Bengals that will seal Kitchens fate. He’ll be gone 2 hours after the last game.

Top
#1702365 - 12/03/19 08:51 PM Re: Kitchen's not worried about job security. [Re: Milk Man]
superbowldogg Offline

Hall of Famer

Registered: 09/14/06
Posts: 5726
Loc: Ctown
Originally Posted By: Milk Man
As Dorsey privately told an associate: "I flexed my muscles and got what I wanted."[/i]



this was in reference to Freddie reporting to Dorsey so Dorsey could keep him on a short leash and fire him when a better hc comes available or take the credit if Freddie did well.

Unlike baby Hue who reporting to Jimmy Dean.
_________________________
Waiting for the day my name will mean something

Top
#1702389 - 12/03/19 11:19 PM Re: Kitchen's not worried about job security. [Re: lampdogg]
DevilDawg2847 Offline

Hall of Famer

Registered: 07/01/14
Posts: 3374
Loc: NC
Originally Posted By: lampdogg
Kitchens and Dorsey will be here in 2020.

When we were winning three in a row, the anti-kitchens chatter died down. Lose in Pitt, it heats up again. I wanted to keep GW and have said it many times, but that didn’t happen and now I believe he deserves at least another year.

Coaches CAN improve.





And rightfully so. The reason the chatter picked back up is because there is zero excuse for that performance. We grind out a tough win against Buffalo, push the Steelers around, perform exactly how we were expected to against the Dolphins... then we rewind the whole daggone thing 4+ weeks. We should have been past every single issue we saw last weekend by now. It’s like Freddie and this team have a set goal, they reach it, but then think they’ve made it and try to go on autopilot.

If Freddie’s issue was technical in nature, like trying to install a complicated offense, ok, I see the argument for suffering through his learning curve. But his learning curve includes his own maturation. Any improvement we may see there has come after he’s been dragged kicking and screaming like a 4 yr old who doesn’t want to take a bath.

Freddie doesn’t know how to lead. Plain and simple. Instead of defining a team identity and demanding his players be held to that, he went the route of “you be you, I’ll be me”. I wouldn’t be surprised if he had a “only God can judge me” tattoo.


Edited by DevilDawg2847 (12/03/19 11:20 PM)
_________________________
"Hey, I'm a reasonable guy. But I've just experienced some very unreasonable things."
-Jack Burton

Top
#1702400 - 12/04/19 06:24 AM Re: Kitchen's not worried about job security. [Re: lampdogg]
rastanplan Offline

Dawg Talker

Registered: 03/08/13
Posts: 2178
Originally Posted By: lampdogg
Kitchens and Dorsey will be here in 2020.

When we were winning three in a row, the anti-kitchens chatter died down. Lose in Pitt, it heats up again. I wanted to keep GW and have said it many times, but that didn’t happen and now I believe he deserves at least another year.

Coaches CAN improve.





No it didn't and it wouldn't die even if we won...This team can only win easy games.

Once the magic is broken its never going to come back.

Both kitchens and Baker will have a hard time getting people back on their side of the fence, and they only have themselves to blame for that.


Edited by rastanplan (12/04/19 06:24 AM)

Top
#1702413 - 12/04/19 08:14 AM Re: Kitchen's not worried about job security. [Re: BarkinMad]
Knight_Of_Brown Offline

Dawg Talker

Registered: 09/26/06
Posts: 2772
The only way I could swallow keeping Kitchens for another year is if:

"He is forced to give up play calling and actually hire an OC Not named Todd Monken"

Its obvious Kitchens is completely overwhelmed calling plays. We need an experienced guy calling plays.

If Kitchens agrees to hiring an experienced OC and hands over play calling duties. I'd be ok with giving him another year.

Norv Turner will probably be available this offseason, and he knows how to run the ball and take advantage of top tier talent like Hunt, Chubb, Landry, and OBJ. He is respected around the league, guys will buy in. He could also be a very good mentor to Kitchens. Make it happen or fire Freddie and hire Ron Rivera.
_________________________
The liberties of a people never were, nor ever will be, secure, when the transactions of their rulers may be concealed from them. - Patrick Henry

Top
#1702426 - 12/04/19 09:21 AM Re: Kitchen's not worried about job security. [Re: Knight_Of_Brown]
WSU Willie Offline

Hall of Famer

Registered: 09/23/06
Posts: 5425
j/c

I've concluded that Freddie just isn't the guy. It was a gamble that didn't pay off. His stubbornness will lead to his firing.

When you have Chubb and Hunt in the backfield and run the ball only six times in the second half...against a blitz-crazy defense...with an OL that has 3 out of 5 of guys who are average-only-on-a-good-day...you won't fix that stubbornness with continuity.

When your best receiver essentially runs the wrong route at the end of the biggest game of the year...in GAME #12 no less...leading to a game-ending int...you won't fix that with continuity.

When your super star receiver can't line up properly...or run the route properly...or catch the ball with more than one hand...you won't fix that with continuity.

When the play-caller insists on running empty backfield sets...with Chubb and Hunt on the roster...against a blitz-crazy defense...with a crap O Line...you won't fix that stubbornness with continuity.

The only reasonable way to keep Freddie is to essentially neuter him. If you have to neuter your head coach, you won't fix that with continuity.

Next man up.

Top
#1702428 - 12/04/19 09:25 AM Re: Kitchen's not worried about job security. [Re: BpG]
willitevachange Offline
Hall of Famer

Registered: 09/07/17
Posts: 8559
Originally Posted By: BpG
This team is extremely young and learning how to win. All this panic is unwarranted. Blowing it up is asinine.

I saw a team beat up the Steelers, Blow out the best team int he AFC (Ravens), Beat the 9-3 Bills, dismantle the Dolphins and lose an ugly one on the road.....by 7 points to the Steelers.


Yeah, they are up and down, it's a rookie HC and a bunch of players under 26, that's what you get. Blowing it all up isn't the answer.
I see a team making the same exact mistakes week in and week out. I see a stubborn HC that refuses to admit the mistakes they are making, or take accountability for them. I see a HC who says one thing, and does another. I see a HC who is not utilizing the best players on his team in an effective way. I see a team that has lost to MULTIPLE rookie undrafted FA QBs. I see a team that has literally BLOWN several games. I see a team that doesn't have the mental compacity to overcome any type of obstacles or hurdles. I see a weak, ineffective HC, a weak ineffective structure, and a weak ineffective organization.

Top
#1702429 - 12/04/19 09:27 AM Re: Kitchen's not worried about job security. [Re: lampdogg]
willitevachange Offline
Hall of Famer

Registered: 09/07/17
Posts: 8559
Originally Posted By: lampdogg
Kitchens and Dorsey will be here in 2020.

When we were winning three in a row, the anti-kitchens chatter died down. Lose in Pitt, it heats up again. I wanted to keep GW and have said it many times, but that didn’t happen and now I believe he deserves at least another year.

Coaches CAN improve.



Coaches can improve, you are absolutely right. But they have to be willing that they need to improve. Freddie, for as good a guy he is - is stubborn as a mule. How many times has he said they need to run Chubb in certain instances only to the throw the very next week in the same circumstance? How many times does Freddie have to call the same stupid looking plays that don't work? How many times does he have to try to fit a square peg in a round hole?

Coaches can improve, but they have to be willing to change.

Top
#1702430 - 12/04/19 09:29 AM Re: Kitchen's not worried about job security. [Re: Knight_Of_Brown]
oobernoober Online   content

Hall of Famer

Registered: 11/24/08
Posts: 4984
Loc: San Diego, CA
Originally Posted By: Knight_Of_Brown
The only way I could swallow keeping Kitchens for another year is if:

"He is forced to give up play calling and actually hire an OC Not named Todd Monken"

Its obvious Kitchens is completely overwhelmed calling plays. We need an experienced guy calling plays.

If Kitchens agrees to hiring an experienced OC and hands over play calling duties. I'd be ok with giving him another year.

Norv Turner will probably be available this offseason, and he knows how to run the ball and take advantage of top tier talent like Hunt, Chubb, Landry, and OBJ. He is respected around the league, guys will buy in. He could also be a very good mentor to Kitchens. Make it happen or fire Freddie and hire Ron Rivera.


Compared to some of the other stuff you've posted, I can see how your Norv comment flew under the radar...

Norv is probably one of the few good vet coaches that we DON'T want here. He's shown he's not HC material in San Diego, and he's exactly what this offense does NOT need (pass happy, hanging his Oline out to dry).
_________________________
Somebody think of something
-ThrowLong

Top
#1702454 - 12/04/19 11:02 AM Re: Kitchen's not worried about job security. [Re: oobernoober]
bonefish Online   content

Hall of Famer

Registered: 04/03/07
Posts: 6009
Loc: Back in Atl. Ga.

The big question is can Freddie develop into a great head coach?

He was promoted to the position having never been a head coach. There has to be a learning curve there.

However, he was hired because of the performance of the offense in the second half under him. That and his relationship with Baker.

With all the talent added and what should have been growth.
The offense has actually regressed.

The defense under Wilks has improved statistically but has wilted when in pressure moments.

Special teams play has improved overall.

New staff and many new players have not seemed to be able to figure it out. Instead of consistency the team has been very inconsistent.

Let's assume we win 2 or 3 more games. So we end up with pretty much the same record as last year.

Will Dorsey see that as failure?

Will Haslam put himself into the equation?

If Dorsey decides to fire Freddie. He knows it will reflect poorly on himself. Not many guys are willing to do that.

In many respects I can understand keeping Freddie.
But that is based more upon continuity than performance.

At the same time I can understand going in another direction.

Top
#1702456 - 12/04/19 11:16 AM Re: Kitchen's not worried about job security. [Re: BarkinMad]
YTownBrownsFan Offline

Legend

Registered: 09/11/06
Posts: 46203
Loc: YTown, Ohio
Just one comment:

Success is almost never linear. There are almost always fits and starts .... ups and downs. Even Bill Belichick had his struggles when he was here.

At some point we have to be willing to grow with a coach. No team in the NFL has been better at blowing things up. During that time, it's about the only thing we've been good at. It's time to actually grow a coach, instead of starting over once more.
_________________________
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.

Top
#1702457 - 12/04/19 11:17 AM Re: Kitchen's not worried about job security. [Re: bonefish]
mgh888 Offline

Hall of Famer

Registered: 03/15/13
Posts: 5148
Originally Posted By: bonefish



In many respects I can understand keeping Freddie.
But that is based more upon continuity than performance.


This is the heart of it. I was all for keeping a winless Hue because of this concept and the lack of talent on the roster. With Freddie it's the same but different - performance of the more talented team doesn't warrant a vote for continuity, but the fact that he is learning and changing roles and responsibility (drastically) the *hope* is he improves.

I've said for several weeks now that i need to see improvement week to week from Freddie the Head Coach and play caller - at this point it is really tough to see much if any. For me to want Freddie back next year we need to improve on offense - consistency and balance between run/pass ... and better game management, prep and discipline/leadership. I hope it happens - I'm worried like many, that we'll continue to play 'well' against the bad teams and then struggle against average/good teams. imo Freddies future very much depends on the performances in these last games. Seasons over but a ton to play for.


Edited by mgh888 (12/04/19 11:18 AM)

Top
#1702495 - 12/04/19 12:24 PM Re: Kitchen's not worried about job security. [Re: BarkinMad]
Riley01 Offline

Dawg Talker

Registered: 03/16/13
Posts: 1269
Get G.williams back or try to get Urban Myer and please get rid of the buffoon Freddie please. Hey J.D. admit your mistake and move on its that simple. j\c


Edited by Riley01 (12/04/19 12:26 PM)

Top
#1702497 - 12/04/19 12:28 PM Re: Kitchen's not worried about job security. [Re: YTownBrownsFan]
Brownoholic Offline

Hall of Famer

Registered: 03/24/07
Posts: 7105
Loc: Columbus, OH, U.S.A.
Originally Posted By: YTownBrownsFan
At some point we have to be willing to grow with a coach.


That could be quite the commitment. Freddy might be able to become as mature as my 10 year old daughters in 4 or 5 years if he really works at it.

Top
#1702509 - 12/04/19 12:44 PM Re: Kitchen's not worried about job security. [Re: Brownoholic]
Milk Man Online   content

Hall of Famer

Registered: 11/01/08
Posts: 6030
j/c...

Well put in this snippet from The Athletic...

A 5-7 record with the losses this team has taken (Denver, the Steelers with a quarterback named Duck and some other backups playing) indicate a lack of a winning culture in the building.

Culture doesn’t come from the coach who is hired, or the GM who is brought in, or the analytics guy or the media approach or the uniforms (which are about to change, again).

Culture comes from within, and it starts with ownership setting a tone and standard for what the team wants, expects and will tolerate. Ultimately, the owners are responsible for everything that takes place. It’s their team. The GM and coach and players who join the team join the culture established by ownership. With the Browns, the culture and commitment and standards change every time the coach or GM changes.

Baltimore and Pittsburgh have culture and commitment established over years. When Mike Tomlin became coach, he adjusted to the Rooneys’ approach; the Rooneys did not adjust to him. Through different GMs in Baltimore, the Ravens’ approach has stayed rock-solid. Those teams choose players who fit what they want, expect and demand. They make concessions for greatness — Antonio Brown comes to mind — but even the Steelers reach their limit.

The Browns lack no clear, apparent direction or culture fostered from within that involves a commitment to how to win, the players needed to win and the kind of people the organization wants to win.

It’s not enough to say the team wants talent. It needs players who fit a culture and mesh into a team.

Top
#1702510 - 12/04/19 12:44 PM Re: Kitchen's not worried about job security. [Re: BarkinMad]
Haus Offline

Hall of Famer

Registered: 04/16/07
Posts: 6411
Hopefully we didn't get ourselves into a "damned if you do, damned if you don't" situation.

I'm not thrilled with Kitchens going forward. I'm also not thrilled with moving on and having Baker and the young guys on their fourth head coach and offensive staff in three seasons.

Guess we'll see what happens the rest of the season and go from there.

Top
#1702518 - 12/04/19 01:04 PM Re: Kitchen's not worried about job security. [Re: Milk Man]
Haus Offline

Hall of Famer

Registered: 04/16/07
Posts: 6411
Originally Posted By: Milk Man
j/c...

Well put in this snippet from The Athletic...

A 5-7 record with the losses this team has taken (Denver, the Steelers with a quarterback named Duck and some other backups playing) indicate a lack of a winning culture in the building.

Culture doesn’t come from the coach who is hired, or the GM who is brought in, or the analytics guy or the media approach or the uniforms (which are about to change, again).

Culture comes from within, and it starts with ownership setting a tone and standard for what the team wants, expects and will tolerate. Ultimately, the owners are responsible for everything that takes place. It’s their team. The GM and coach and players who join the team join the culture established by ownership. With the Browns, the culture and commitment and standards change every time the coach or GM changes.

Baltimore and Pittsburgh have culture and commitment established over years. When Mike Tomlin became coach, he adjusted to the Rooneys’ approach; the Rooneys did not adjust to him. Through different GMs in Baltimore, the Ravens’ approach has stayed rock-solid. Those teams choose players who fit what they want, expect and demand. They make concessions for greatness — Antonio Brown comes to mind — but even the Steelers reach their limit.

The Browns lack no clear, apparent direction or culture fostered from within that involves a commitment to how to win, the players needed to win and the kind of people the organization wants to win.

It’s not enough to say the team wants talent. It needs players who fit a culture and mesh into a team.

I think there are more tangible reasons we can point to than just 'culture'. Note that I'm not completely discounting that. I actually do think the Steelers have a much better culture (from ownership, to front office, to head coach, etc.) and there players just seem to 'get it' more.

However.

I challenge somebody to dig up the tape from an old Browns vs Steelers matchup. Any game from the last twenty years ought to do. What I want you to do is just look at the players. Don't even worry about who the coach or the QB is, or the big names on the rosters. Just look at the players.

What I see twice a year, every year, is one team that looks like a professional football team (that is the Steelers, in case you aren't following.) Their arms tend to be bigger and more shredded, they are more physically imposing, and their body language and demeanor reflect this. They play rough and physical, sometimes crossing the line into dirty.

Meanwhile the Browns look more like a rag tag bunch. They're small and lean, or big and fat, but almost never big and lean. They don't seem to play with much fire, or take up for each other much. There are exceptions.

I don't know exactly why this is the case, I just know it's true. Maybe it's player acquisition (targeting players with certain body types or habits), or diet/nutrition/supplements/"super supplements", or strength and conditioning, or what have you.

What I do know is that the Browns are never going to consistently beat the Steelers until they can match this. Doesn't matter how much more talent they supposedly have because the Browns never even come close to maximizing the talent they do have.

(By the way, the Ravens are much closer to the Steelers in this regard and the Bengals are much closer to the Browns.)

Add in actual leadership in the organization and how can anybody expect different results? Rooney, Colbert, and Tomlin make a great trifecta, probably second only to Kraft, Caserio, and Belichick up in New England. On the other hand, we have the Haslams, Dorsey, and Kitchens. Are you really confident the Haslams and Freddie Kitchens are the answer? Even Dorsey is burning through his football cred very fast.

Top
#1702542 - 12/04/19 01:47 PM Re: Kitchen's not worried about job security. [Re: willitevachange]
Ballpeen Offline

Legend

Registered: 09/11/06
Posts: 28271
Originally Posted By: willitevachange
Originally Posted By: Ballpeen
Originally Posted By: DevilDawg2847
All good points. But how involved do you want your owner to be in the mid to ground level operations? It’s one thing to establish the “mission statement” but it’s another to actively influence it.

So what is it exactly we want Jimmy to do? We all agree we don’t want him picking the roster. I think most see the sense in letting his GM pick the coaches l, if nothing else that to avoid establishing that weird GM and HC don’t answer to each other.

Should Jimmy step in when he doesn’t see his HC or GM making more of an effort to get OBJ to attend workouts? What about the inconsistency with play calling? Or Freddie not running a disciplined team for at least the first half of the year? If he sits back and trusts the people in place to work it out, he’s accused of being derelict in his duties. If he hangs Dorsey and/or Freddie’s jobs over their head or fires people outright, then he’s accused of running an unstable organization. I think there’s legit pros and cons to both sides.

But I think before we can assign blame or responsibility for what the culture IS (which may not reflect what it’s supposed to be) we need to define the role of each person within.




You get it.

The same people saying Haslam has to set the culture are the same people who were saying that once we hired Dorsey the Haslams needed to step aside and shut-up. Let the football people do their job.
The "football people" are not doing their job though. That's the problem, Peen. All that talent Dorsey accumulated means jack squat if they play for themselves. All that talent, and Dorsey forgot one thing - the willingness to run through a brickwall for the guy next to you. We got guys that want numbers and not wins. We got guys that want commercials and brands over TDs and victories.

Its not a coincidence, that the two best things we have on offense right now are Hunt and Chubb, and they are playing the most unselfish football you can.

The rest of the team, Baker included - are more worried about SI covers and followers on Twitter are having the worst seasons in their careers. Coincidence? Culture. Team. Hard work. Three things the team has sorely missed this year.

I would rather have 3 Edelmans over 3 OBJs any day of the week. OBJ is above and beyond more talented that Edelman - yet Edelman puts in the work, and his team knows he will be there each and every day 110% to the max.

Does that mean OBJ isn't a hard worker. He is. He trains hard, he works on his craft. Problem is, he only trains for himself, he only trains on HIS CRAFT. He doesn't train for the betterment of the team - he trains to make HIS 1 handed catches, while easy balls are bouncing off his facemask.

Give me 3 guys with heart and drive, over 3 OBJs and AB's any day of the week.

Want another example - Ju Ju Smith. The kid last year was humble, worked hard, loved in the locker room in Pitts. He then became a fan favorite. Know, he spent all offseason building a "brand" on social media, always has a camera crew around when hes doing something, and is absolutely turning into a ME guy. You can see that with his on the field performance as well.


You are wanting it both ways. I, nor you know what is going on inside the office in Berea. I am pretty sure the Haslams meet with Dorsey on a regular basis. They probably talk with Freddie.

Dorsey is over football operations. The Haslams aren't going to walk in and fire Freddy. They are going to talk with Dorsey and find out if he thinks this is going to work or ask why it isn't.

They aren't going to fire Dorsey today.

I don't know that Freddie is calling bad plays other than he like to pass too much...ironic sine he was a running backs coach. All I remember was Freddie and Monken were going to meld their systems and for a new one. I think that is what doesn't work.

I think when the season ends Freddie is going to see the light one way of the other he needs to give up playcalling. As head coach he can always influence it. I am not sure if we retain Monken or look elsewhere. Probably retain him with him calling plays.
_________________________
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn.

GM Strong





Top
#1702620 - 12/04/19 03:57 PM Re: Kitchen's not worried about job security. [Re: Ballpeen]
bonefish Online   content

Hall of Famer

Registered: 04/03/07
Posts: 6009
Loc: Back in Atl. Ga.

Monken at the end of last year was considered a valid head coach candidate.

Freddie is the head coach. Monken reports to Freddie. He can make recommendations. Have input. But in the end Freddie is in charge of this offense.

Dorsey could take power away from Freddie and force him to let Monken have the offense and call the plays.

However, Freddie got the job based upon the results of last year. A forced move like that just signals; a I don't trust
you atmosphere.

Firing Monken and bringing in a guy to run the offense would signal the same.

Ron Rivera is a winning head coach. Well respected inside the game. Both as a man and head coach.

He will get a job as head coach.

This is a tough call. A decision I am sure Dorsey will struggle to make.

I am of the mindset that an offensive head coach who has a vision for how to use Mayfield and the pieces in place into a cohesive offense makes some sense.

Apart from what some may think. I believe that Dorsey is fully committed to Baker.

So that becomes key. Who can get the most production from Baker and the players in place?

I don't have an answer.

Top
#1702624 - 12/04/19 04:10 PM Re: Kitchen's not worried about job security. [Re: bonefish]
Haus Offline

Hall of Famer

Registered: 04/16/07
Posts: 6411
I think we almost have to roll with Kitchens for another year. This is just an old philosophy of mine, a coach should always get at least two years, barring some major scandal or something along those lines.

Quote:
I am of the mindset that an offensive head coach who has a vision for how to use Mayfield and the pieces in place into a cohesive offense makes some sense.

This makes a lot of sense and I agree. I hate to bring this up, and I know I'm going to get blasted for it, but I'm going to say it anyway.

Bringing back Hue for that third season-- Baker's rookie season-- looks to be one of the most boneheaded and catastrophically inept front office decisions ever.

It's hard to overstate how incredibly bad of an idea that was, to saddle our rookie #1 overall pick with that nonsense. Baker is already on his THIRD head coach and offensive coordinator in his second season. Move on from Kitchens and he'll be on his fourth.

Ugh, makes me sick just thinking about it. It reminds me of Alex Smith having seven offensive coordinators in seven years or whatever it was. That's so stupid. QBs need to learn and perfect the system they are in over a period of years, or in some cases even decades (New England).

We always hear about the importance of getting the QB right, but rarely hear about the importance of getting the coach right.. at least not on the timescale we're talking here.

Top
#1702633 - 12/04/19 04:29 PM Re: Kitchen's not worried about job security. [Re: Haus]
bonefish Online   content

Hall of Famer

Registered: 04/03/07
Posts: 6009
Loc: Back in Atl. Ga.

These last four games will come to play.

Loses to the Bengals would doom Freddie.

However, that is not likely to happen.

Dorsey will have his ear to the ground. He will know if the players are questioning Freddie. He will know if there is in-fighting and conflict amount the coaching staff.

Anything along those lines would doom Freddie.

The mostly scenario is we end winning 7 or 8 games.
Freddie keeps his job. We continue to build. Address the OL and a try to score in the draft.

Freddie and Monken remain and get another year to swim or sink.

Top
#1702652 - 12/04/19 06:46 PM Re: Kitchen's not worried about job security. [Re: BarkinMad]
Knight_Of_Brown Offline

Dawg Talker

Registered: 09/26/06
Posts: 2772
With our ravaged DL with no depth and no Myles Garret I won’t be one bit suprised if the Bengals don’t beat us atleast once

Andy Dalton stinks only because he sucks when pressured. Since the Browns have no pass rush now Dalton will probably have a big game. Any QB in this league can beat you when you can’t pressure them.

There are a lot of bad teams in the NFL this year and the Browns are one of those teams. We couldn’t even beat a Steelers team playing mostly backups and practice squad guys on offense.

Both Dorsey and Kitchens need to go but it will take another 18 or so months from Jimmah to figure this out
_________________________
The liberties of a people never were, nor ever will be, secure, when the transactions of their rulers may be concealed from them. - Patrick Henry

Top
#1702659 - 12/04/19 07:23 PM Re: Kitchen's not worried about job security. [Re: BarkinMad]
oobernoober Online   content

Hall of Famer

Registered: 11/24/08
Posts: 4984
Loc: San Diego, CA
The Bengals oline is pretty abysmal, especially for passing.
_________________________
Somebody think of something
-ThrowLong

Top
#1702662 - 12/04/19 07:34 PM Re: Kitchen's not worried about job security. [Re: BarkinMad]
oobernoober Online   content

Hall of Famer

Registered: 11/24/08
Posts: 4984
Loc: San Diego, CA
I don't know about canning Freddie, but I wouldn't mind a little coaching shakeup.

https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/2820...ach-josh-mccown

It won't happen, but I'd love to see McCown always in the ear of our young FQB.
_________________________
Somebody think of something
-ThrowLong

Top
#1702665 - 12/04/19 07:54 PM Re: Kitchen's not worried about job security. [Re: oobernoober]
Rishuz Offline

Legend

Registered: 10/08/06
Posts: 12626
Loc: Las Vegas
Here's something everyone should realize by now. This team will never be good under the Haslams. They are the worst of the worst. And if that's not enough when they decide to hang them up, they're going to turn it over to their idiot son-in-law.

Go Browns!

Top
#1702674 - 12/04/19 09:52 PM Re: Kitchen's not worried about job security. [Re: Rishuz]
bonefish Online   content

Hall of Famer

Registered: 04/03/07
Posts: 6009
Loc: Back in Atl. Ga.

Haslam has to a large degree turned over the Browns to Dorsey.

His title is Head of Football Operations.

Of course as the owner he can do as he pleases. But as long as Dorsey is in place; this is his show.

Dorsey makes all personnel decisions. So he makes the roster and then turns it over to the head coach he hired.

If or when Haslem feels he needs to make a change then he can do that.

Haslem had no prior experience as an NFL owner. His incentive is to win as it is with all owners.

Now he has some experience. He seems to be moving away from direct involvement as opposed to trying to run the football side.

Top
#1702675 - 12/04/19 10:20 PM Re: Kitchen's not worried about job security. [Re: bonefish]
Milk Man Online   content

Hall of Famer

Registered: 11/01/08
Posts: 6030
Originally Posted By: bonefish
Haslam has to a large degree turned over the Browns to Dorsey.
His title is Head of Football Operations.


Minor correction, Bone. Dorsey's official title is General Manager, not Head of Football Operations.

https://www.clevelandbrowns.com/team/front-office-roster/

Top
#1702712 - 12/05/19 08:25 AM Re: Kitchen's not worried about job security. [Re: bonefish]
willitevachange Offline
Hall of Famer

Registered: 09/07/17
Posts: 8559
Quote:
So that becomes key. Who can get the most production from Baker and the players in place?

I don't have an answer.
I agree with all of this, and everything else you stated.

Question to you would be, do you think Freddie is the guy to do put the players and Baker in that place to get the most from them?

I don't.

Top
#1702751 - 12/05/19 10:22 AM Re: Kitchen's not worried about job security. [Re: Milk Man]
bonefish Online   content

Hall of Famer

Registered: 04/03/07
Posts: 6009
Loc: Back in Atl. Ga.
I know that is from the team site but I thought I also read somewhere that his title was Head of Football Operations.

In any event he is.

Top
#1702753 - 12/05/19 10:37 AM Re: Kitchen's not worried about job security. [Re: willitevachange]
bonefish Online   content

Hall of Famer

Registered: 04/03/07
Posts: 6009
Loc: Back in Atl. Ga.

Honestly, I am struggling with that question.

When I look at the the end results. I am ready to make the change.

Play calling. In the time I have watched football (which is long) every play caller is questioned.

That includes Bruce Arians to Lindy Infante on down the line.

What has to be looked at IMO is: did the players and team perform to their potential?

This is where the problem lies. I can not see justification for the way this team has performed. We lost too many games to teams we had more talent than.

Can Freddie get better? That is unknown. No doubt that having no prior experience as a head coach. There has to be a learning curve there.

However, unless you are behind the scenes everyday and are witness to how the team is prepared and how they respond to the coaches? You can not know.

The thought of going to find another head coach and staff and all that goes with that is drastic.

It is a very difficult decision.

Who is out there that would be the right person?

That also comes into play. I know some but not all that would be considered.

So, for right now let's see what happens with the last 4 games. Then reassess.

Top
#1702770 - 12/05/19 12:19 PM Re: Kitchen's not worried about job security. [Re: Rishuz]
DCDAWGFAN Offline

Legend

Registered: 09/12/06
Posts: 38213
Originally Posted By: Rishuz
Here's something everyone should realize by now. This team will never be good under the Haslams. They are the worst of the worst. And if that's not enough when they decide to hang them up, they're going to turn it over to their idiot son-in-law.

Go Browns!

Unless you consider hiring Dorsey as the reason we struggled this year, I'm not sure what the Haslam's have to do with it.

As far as I know, they stayed out of it and let him go get the players he wanted, make the trades he wanted, and just wrote checks... if you know otherwise, I'd be glad to listen.

As for it always being this way... the Rooney's made the playoffs 1 time in the first 40 years that the Rooney's owned the team, they were pretty much perennial laughingstock in the NFL.. then one day that miraculously changed and now they are viewed as the model of stable, consistent, and successful ownership... The Haslams are in what, year 7?

Now I'm not saying I'm anxious to wait another 30 years for success or that I think it should take that long.. but I still believe we are a piece away from being great right now and that piece is the coach.. either Freddie maturing quickly into the position or being replaced.. and as far as I know, that decision, lies almost exclusively with Dorsey.
_________________________
#freemyles
#suspendrudolph

Top
#1702787 - 12/05/19 01:20 PM Re: Kitchen's not worried about job security. [Re: oobernoober]
Iluvmyxstripper Offline
Dawg Talker

Registered: 01/01/15
Posts: 1663
Some how the Bengals passing game looked decent
Vs a Gregg Williams defense last week

Top
Page 7 of 10 < 1 2 ... 5 6 7 8 9 10 >