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#1687949 - 11/04/19 12:16 PM Where do you place the blame for the Browns' woes?
ExclDawg Offline

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Just trying to get a pulse on what Browns fans feel the real problems are with the team. We obviously aren't living up to expectations, and the fingers are pointing everywhere. Who do you feel is responsible and what should we do about it?
Who takes the most blame for the Browns' issues?
Only one choice allowed


Votes accepted starting: 11/04/19 12:08 PM
View the results of this poll.
Who shares significant blame for the Browns issues (More than 25%)
4 choices allowed


Votes accepted starting: 11/04/19 12:11 PM
View the results of this poll.
If you could make one adjustment to the team tomorrow, what would you do?
Only one choice allowed


Votes accepted starting: 11/04/19 12:14 PM
View the results of this poll.

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#1687959 - 11/04/19 12:23 PM Re: Where do you place the blame for the Browns' woes? [Re: ExclDawg]
Dawgs4Life Offline

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Order of blame for me:

- Dorsey, because this is all his
- Kitchens, because heís an abhorrent coach. Perhaps the worst Iíve seen
- Baker, because heís regressed and not doing much to help this team
- The OL, because theyíre not good at the OT position and it affects the whole thing
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#1688049 - 11/04/19 01:48 PM Re: Where do you place the blame for the Browns' woes? [Re: Dawgs4Life]
ExclDawg Offline

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Order of blame for me probably goes something like:

~40% - Kitchens. He somehow parleyed 8 good games as OC, where he wasn't even designing the plays, into a Head Coaching gig with added OC play-calling duties. He must be an amazing salesman, because everything I've seen this year looks like he's way over his head in both capacities. The team culture, discipline and attitude all starts with him, and we've been miserable in all of those areas. He took a coaching staff that went 6-2 last year, and blew it up because "He knew better". He took an unorthodox approach to Training camp and preseason, because he knows better, and makes mind-boggling calls on offense because he knows better. Then when things don't work, he sticks to his guns.

~25% - Dorsey. Like you said, he built this team and he's the guy responsible for the Kitchens hire. I give him a huge pass, because for the most part, he's done an outstanding job in drafting talent and making trades that bring other talent in as well. But he also seems to neglect the "team culture" angle, by bringing in potential problem-children and hoping that our culture will correct them. That only works when you have a well established locker-room. Not when you're a team trying to find an identity. His biggest mistake by far though was thinking Kitchens was the next Sean McVeigh and giving him full control of the team and the offense, and letting him blow up the existing staff, based on a whole 8 games worth of resume.

~25% - Baker. He's had a terrible sophomore slump, and he's not looking like anything that he showed last year. He can't make reads, he can't diagnose defenses, and he can't make accurate throws. Yet, he was able to do all of that last year, so this leads me to believe he's at least capable of it, and something else is going on.

~10% - All other things

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#1688065 - 11/04/19 02:02 PM Re: Where do you place the blame for the Browns' woes? [Re: ExclDawg]
OldColdDawg Offline

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I think benching Mayfield for a few games is almost a no brainer at this point. He has lost confidence in himself and further beatings are not going to turn him around, he needs time to regroup.


Edited by OldColdDawg (11/04/19 02:02 PM)
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#1688072 - 11/04/19 02:10 PM Re: Where do you place the blame for the Browns' woes? [Re: ExclDawg]
DCDAWGFAN Offline

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Most of the blame - Freddie
Significant share of the blame - lack of team leaders, Baker is obviously a big part but not 100%
Change - give playcalling to Monken and see what happens, firing Freddie at this point without a replacement lined up doesn't seem to make much sense.
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#1688164 - 11/04/19 04:59 PM Re: Where do you place the blame for the Browns' woes? [Re: ExclDawg]
cfrs15 Offline

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Haslams

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#1688178 - 11/04/19 05:39 PM Re: Where do you place the blame for the Browns' woes? [Re: OldColdDawg]
Hammer Offline
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stupidest thing i heard yet.

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#1688184 - 11/04/19 06:01 PM Re: Where do you place the blame for the Browns' woes? [Re: OldColdDawg]
cfrs15 Offline

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Originally Posted By: OldColdDawg
I think benching Mayfield for a few games is almost a no brainer at this point. He has lost confidence in himself and further beatings are not going to turn him around, he needs time to regroup.


This last game was Bakerís second best of the season. The Broncos defense is really good. Benching him makes no sense.

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#1688185 - 11/04/19 06:21 PM Re: Where do you place the blame for the Browns' woes? [Re: ExclDawg]
SuperBrown Offline

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Fire, Fire, Fire!!!

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#1688201 - 11/04/19 07:40 PM Re: Where do you place the blame for the Browns' woes? [Re: cfrs15]
jaybird Online   content

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Originally Posted By: cfrs15
Originally Posted By: OldColdDawg
I think benching Mayfield for a few games is almost a no brainer at this point. He has lost confidence in himself and further beatings are not going to turn him around, he needs time to regroup.


This last game was Bakerís second best of the season. The Broncos defense is really good. Benching him makes no sense.


Besides red zone woes I agree... offense looked better this week between the 20s
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#1688259 - 11/04/19 09:53 PM Re: Where do you place the blame for the Browns' woes? [Re: cfrs15]
GraffZ06 Offline

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Originally Posted By: cfrs15
Haslams


Bingo!
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#1688269 - 11/04/19 11:18 PM Re: Where do you place the blame for the Browns' woes? [Re: GraffZ06]
ExclDawg Offline

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Originally Posted By: GraffZ06
Originally Posted By: cfrs15
Haslams


Bingo!


So are you saying the hiring of Dorsey was a mistake? What more should Haslam do?

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#1688274 - 11/04/19 11:42 PM Re: Where do you place the blame for the Browns' woes? [Re: ExclDawg]
cfrs15 Offline

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Originally Posted By: ExclDawg
Originally Posted By: GraffZ06
Originally Posted By: cfrs15
Haslams


Bingo!


So are you saying the hiring of Dorsey was a mistake? What more should Haslam do?


When there is a failure of this magnitude it goes to the top. The people in charge are Jimmy and Dee Haslam. Ever since they bought the team there has been a culture of incompetence. What we are seeing right now is incompetence.

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#1688295 - 11/05/19 06:53 AM Re: Where do you place the blame for the Browns' woes? [Re: ExclDawg]
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Freddy is the main problem, team leadership is next. Our team is not prepared, they don't feed off of each other very long after good plays/drives, and there's a serious lack of discipline on and off the field. There is no accountability on this team... and it came to a head with Freddy blaming the entire thing on execution, along with the Whitehead tweets. Freddy can't handle the dual role of HC/playcaller, and it's plainly obvious. Plays continue to come in late, the other team too often seems to have the exact defense needed to stop us at crucial times, and his clock/timeout management is putrid.
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#1688375 - 11/05/19 11:30 AM Re: Where do you place the blame for the Browns' woes? [Re: cfrs15]
ExclDawg Offline

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Originally Posted By: cfrs15
Originally Posted By: ExclDawg
Originally Posted By: GraffZ06
Originally Posted By: cfrs15
Haslams


Bingo!


So are you saying the hiring of Dorsey was a mistake? What more should Haslam do?


When there is a failure of this magnitude it goes to the top. The people in charge are Jimmy and Dee Haslam. Ever since they bought the team there has been a culture of incompetence. What we are seeing right now is incompetence.


So what do you propose they do? Fire Dorsey? Micro-manage? Meddle like Dan Snyder?

I get the whole "it goes to the top" mantra, but for the most part I feel like the Haslam's got it right by putting Dorsey in charge and kind of keeping out of it for the most part. That's why I put quite a bit of blame on Dorsey as he's the one that's brought in these players with character issues and made the Kitchens hire. I think the Kitchens hire was the biggest mistake, so if Dorsey can rectify that, then it will probably clear up a lot of the other issues. The buck sort of stops with Dorsey here, as I'd rather the owners themselves don't get involved. Unless you think Dorsey isn't the right guy, the owners should probably stay out of the rest of it.


Edited by ExclDawg (11/05/19 11:36 AM)

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#1688393 - 11/05/19 12:04 PM Re: Where do you place the blame for the Browns' woes? [Re: ExclDawg]
cfrs15 Offline

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With the level of incompetence going on I find it hard to believe that the Haslams arenít doing something shady behind the scenes.

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#1688427 - 11/05/19 02:06 PM Re: Where do you place the blame for the Browns' woes? [Re: ExclDawg]
Dave Offline

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For question #3 (adjustments), I answered "Other". More than just who is calling plays, I would like to see a fundamental change in our offensive philosophy.

Some changes I'd like to see:

* A 180 degree change in our run-to-pass ratio. Especially with Hunt coming onboard, I want to see us run 60% of the time. And mix it up; don't just do run-run-pass.

* I want Baker working under center most of the time to maximize play-action and to get our RB's receiving handoffs at full speed. Baker is really good at play-action; we need to use it to freeze oppo LBs and Safeties.

* More no-huddle offense, at least a couple drives per game.

* More horizontal, less vertical passing attack. Outs, slants, hooks, screens ... move the chains. Along with this line of thought, ask Baker to be more of a game manager first before he goes all "hero-ball". Maybe he can be Brett Favre someday, but for now, how about we just ask him to be Alex Smith?

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#1688450 - 11/05/19 02:47 PM Re: Where do you place the blame for the Browns' woes? [Re: Dave]
PortlandDawg Online   content

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Iíd add... Iíd like to see the team stop trying crazy crap on 2nd and 1. Just run the damn ball up the gut. Get the first down. Stop trying trick plays or 30 yard go routes. These inevitably lead to loss of yards, procedural, or holding penalties. Hence 3rd and 11. Weíre not good enough to be sly. Just get the first down. Run it again on 3rd and 1 if we get stuffed on the 2nd down run.
I know 2nd and 1 is when youíre supposed to be aggressive. It just never works in our favor. Knock it off.
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#1688476 - 11/05/19 04:53 PM Re: Where do you place the blame for the Browns' woes? [Re: PortlandDawg]
DCDAWGFAN Offline

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Originally Posted By: PortlandDawg
Iíd add... Iíd like to see the team stop trying crazy crap on 2nd and 1. Just run the damn ball up the gut. Get the first down. Stop trying trick plays or 30 yard go routes. These inevitably lead to loss of yards, procedural, or holding penalties. Hence 3rd and 11. Weíre not good enough to be sly. Just get the first down. Run it again on 3rd and 1 if we get stuffed on the 2nd down run.
I know 2nd and 1 is when youíre supposed to be aggressive. It just never works in our favor. Knock it off.

Generally I agree with this. I'm typically in favor of "taking a shot" on 2nd and 1 but right now we just need to move chains, try to get some rhythm, try to get the defense tired and on its heels a bit.. if you can do that, then maybe taking a shot makes sense...
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#1688484 - 11/05/19 05:17 PM Re: Where do you place the blame for the Browns' woes? [Re: DCDAWGFAN]
GMdawg Offline

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We don't take shots this year. notallthere
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#1688487 - 11/05/19 05:22 PM Re: Where do you place the blame for the Browns' woes? [Re: GMdawg]
DCDAWGFAN Offline

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I disagree. I couldn't get through a game without a few shots.
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#1688488 - 11/05/19 05:29 PM Re: Where do you place the blame for the Browns' woes? [Re: DCDAWGFAN]
Dave Offline

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Originally Posted By: DCDAWGFAN
I disagree. I couldn't get through a game without a few shots.


Being a Browns' fan turned me into a bourbon fan. One of these days I'd like to use it to toast a win.

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#1688530 - 11/05/19 08:34 PM Re: Where do you place the blame for the Browns' woes? [Re: ExclDawg]
THROW LONG Offline

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Take a Bobcat! you can't blame a bobcat for being a bobcat, (like Odell Beckham, I can't blame him for being him,

but, I bet, if you took a Bobcat and put it in Seigfreid and Roye's tiger show, there'd be major problems.

I think it's like putting Salt in the Cake Mix, you can't blame him for being him, but I think it messed everything up.

( Even I think ^ this was from the weirded out versions of my own crazy mind.)

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#1688798 - 11/06/19 10:18 PM Re: Where do you place the blame for the Browns' woes? [Re: cfrs15]
jaybird Online   content

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Originally Posted By: cfrs15
Originally Posted By: ExclDawg
Originally Posted By: GraffZ06
Originally Posted By: cfrs15
Haslams


Bingo!


So are you saying the hiring of Dorsey was a mistake? What more should Haslam do?


When there is a failure of this magnitude it goes to the top. The people in charge are Jimmy and Dee Haslam. Ever since they bought the team there has been a culture of incompetence. What we are seeing right now is incompetence.


Browns were incompetenant way before the haslams.... Jimmy finally made a good decision hiring a football guy and then stepped back.... Dorsey was a good choice by haslam.... not sure Dorsey made good choice at coach.... but that's not on jimmy....
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#1688799 - 11/06/19 10:19 PM Re: Where do you place the blame for the Browns' woes? [Re: Dave]
jaybird Online   content

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Originally Posted By: Dave
Originally Posted By: DCDAWGFAN
I disagree. I couldn't get through a game without a few shots.


Being a Browns' fan turned me into a bourbon fan. One of these days I'd like to use it to toast a win.


My man!! Whiskey is my favorite.... makes Browns games much more enjoyable....
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#1688865 - 11/07/19 02:44 PM Re: Where do you place the blame for the Browns' woes? [Re: GMdawg]
PitDAWG Offline

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Originally Posted By: GMdawg
We don't take shots this year. notallthere


Only with my beer.
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#1688948 - 11/07/19 11:56 PM Re: Where do you place the blame for the Browns' woes? [Re: ExclDawg]
GraffZ06 Offline

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Originally Posted By: ExclDawg
Originally Posted By: GraffZ06
Originally Posted By: cfrs15
Haslams


Bingo!


So are you saying the hiring of Dorsey was a mistake? What more should Haslam do?


Distinctly possible that Dorsey was a mistake. I've never been a huge fan of his even when he was crowned God of all Things last year. Not saying it with 100% certainty, but it's certainly looking that way.

What more should the Haslams do? I dunno - sell the team. Lock themselves in a shed with the mole people never to be seen again for the next 12 years? Can we start there?

The next decision Jimmy or Dee makes for the Browns will inevitably be bad - unless that decision is to completely disassociate themselves from the franchise.

I'm not even joking. I'm serious. Either sell the team or do something along the lines of "we are so completely incompetent that we don't even trust ourselves to hire the next person to run the org for us" and hire a consulting group or think tank to put together a board to hire the next person who will run the org for them - and then never touch it again.
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#1689226 - 11/09/19 11:49 AM Re: Where do you place the blame for the Browns' woes? [Re: ExclDawg]
1oldMutt Offline

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1. Players
2. Kitchens
3. Dorsey
4. Media

Players aren't focused. Kitchens can't get them focused. Dorsey is the ultimate in charge. Media overhyped the team then where over anxious to whack them.

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#1689386 - 11/09/19 10:09 PM Re: Where do you place the blame for the Browns' woes? [Re: ExclDawg]
EveDawg Offline

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The blame belongs on the coaches.

Dorsey has done great at acquiring talent.
We have all the talent in the world, but cant win.

If we had BB and his coaches, do you feel we would have this same problem?
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#1689387 - 11/09/19 10:44 PM Re: Where do you place the blame for the Browns' woes? [Re: EveDawg]
cfrs15 Offline

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Originally Posted By: EveDawg
If we had BB and his coaches, do you feel we would have this same problem?


The million dollar question.

(The answer is no.)

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#1689396 - 11/10/19 01:08 AM Re: Where do you place the blame for the Browns' woes? [Re: ExclDawg]
THROW LONG Offline

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Part of me wants to place blame on not keeping Duke Johnson on the team at least until Hunt came off suspension.

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#1694919 - 11/15/19 02:47 PM Re: Where do you place the blame for the Browns' woes? [Re: ExclDawg]
willitevachange Offline
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Other - Mason Rudolph. Change my mind.

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#1695014 - 11/15/19 07:26 PM Re: Where do you place the blame for the Browns' woes? [Re: willitevachange]
GMdawg Offline

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LMAO How about the Ref's and the NFL since they should have a logo on all of their posts saying "Screwing the Browns and their fans since 1999"
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#1703507 - 12/07/19 10:33 PM Re: Where do you place the blame for the Browns' woes? [Re: GMdawg]
Dawg Duty Offline

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Originally Posted By: GMdawg
LMAO How about the Ref's and the NFL since they should have a logo on all of their posts saying "Screwing the Browns and their fans since 1999"


Freddy, I like the guy. He's a country boy, but I THINK HE'S IN a little over his head

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#1703543 - 12/08/19 08:51 AM Re: Where do you place the blame for the Browns' woes? [Re: ExclDawg]
THROW LONG Offline

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Originally Posted By: ExclDawg
Originally Posted By: GraffZ06
Originally Posted By: cfrs15
Haslams


Bingo!


So are you saying the hiring of Dorsey was a mistake? What more should Haslam do?


Keep the team together,
Quit chasing fools gold in free agency,
Stuck with Mike Pettine for what would have been year 7 and 3 quartereth.
(develop a culture that makes players and postion groups get better, not slowly worse, over time;)


(I know, coulda, woulda, shoulda!)

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#1704993 - 12/09/19 11:57 AM Re: Where do you place the blame for the Browns' woes? [Re: ExclDawg]
BpG Offline

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Take the play calling from Freddie and give it to Monken? The air raid IS MONKEN's offense!


Last year in Tampa they led the league in turnovers and fired him.....this year....same?

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#1705555 - 12/11/19 09:46 AM Re: Where do you place the blame for the Browns' woes? [Re: cfrs15]
Haus Offline

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Originally Posted By: cfrs15
Originally Posted By: EveDawg
If we had BB and his coaches, do you feel we would have this same problem?


The million dollar question.

(The answer is no.)

The real million dollar question is more like,

So we know Belichick's teams are well-prepared, disciplined, and so on. Wait that's not a question.

The question is, how much of that is due to Belichick the GM, and how much of it is due to Belichick the coach?

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#1706176 - 12/14/19 03:37 PM Re: Where do you place the blame for the Browns' woes? [Re: ExclDawg]
Spergon FTWynn Offline

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I blame a lot on John Dorsey for not doing a full-blown coaching search.

We all wanted Freddie to be good, and I think he is a good coach, but he is not a good head coach, there's a difference. I think it's too much for him at this point. I love the idea from promoting within, but when it doesn't work, this is what you get.

I think Dorsey let his ego get in the way, and now he's in that real tough spot where you may have to fire a guy after a year, or make the mistake of wasting a year with a lame duck guy, only to do this all again next year.

Maybe there wasn't anyone out there that they really wanted, but the blame falls on you when things aren't working.

I get that this roster is talented, but nowhere near complete, or ready to compete for a super bowl. They should be better than their record though. They gave away 2 or 3 games minimum this year and you could argue more.

The Beckham trade has not worked out either. I don't think that is entirely on Dorsey, but he's the one who pulled the trigger. We're finding out that Beckham has been fighting injuries all year, which could explain the fact that he did not participate in any preaseason games. Now we're hearing rumors (and only rumors at this point) that he wants out. Either way, when you trade for big name players, you have to be real careful. Odell has been a good teammate all year, but the results have not been there at all.

Freddie and his staff get their share of the blame, as mentioned. I just think it's too much to handle. Being a good playcaller just doesn't guarantee you to be a good head coach. I don't even think it's really a trait of a great head coach.

The players deserve a bunch too. Baker has regressed from last year. I hope it's a sophomore slump. Either way, next year is a HUGE year for him.

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#1707528 - 12/16/19 11:15 AM Re: Where do you place the blame for the Browns' woes? [Re: Spergon FTWynn]
ExclDawg Offline

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I agree. I put most of the blame on Kitchens, as he is completely in over his head coaching this team. But my confidence in Dorsey is waning by the day as well, especially when I hear that he wants to stick with Kitchens for another year.

I'm not even sure why he wants to do it, as Kitchens is making his own drafting ability look questionable. Last year, he looked borderline genius, grabbing a QB that set the rookie TD record, a corner that made the Pro-Bowl, a lineman for the future, a stud RB, some decent DE depth, a starting WR and play-making pass rusher. This year with the biggest change being at the head coach position, half of those guys have been cut, and other than Chubb, the rest have regressed heavily. So either Dorsey doesn't know how to draft, or the guy leading them all is terrible ... and the solution is to stick with the guy leading them?

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#1707546 - 12/16/19 11:47 AM Re: Where do you place the blame for the Browns' woes? [Re: ExclDawg]
1oldMutt Offline

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Kitchens first. He's been given a roster good enough to win and he's like a little boy who just found his pee pee.

Staff second. They're either incompetent or biting their tongues.

Dorsey third. Needed some Oline depth. Although we have the leading rusher running behind them...

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