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#1699209 - 11/27/19 11:25 AM Re: End of the Season Rookie QB Stats/Comparisons [Re: FATE]
bonefish Offline

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Posts: 6007
Loc: Back in Atl. Ga.
Not going to take anything away from Lamar. His improvement as a passer and quarterback is to his credit.

However, major credit goes to the Raven organization.They drafted him.

Then they committed to him by moving Flacco.

And last they built an offense to take full advantage of Lamar's skills. Not only did they build the offense but they have made it work.

They re-wrote the playbook. They designed blocking schemes to feature running the ball but based upon deception. They implemented RPO's to where Lamar has run/pass options that are hard cover because of the fear Lamar brings as a runner. Their offense is leading all the NFL.

That is hard to accomplish in a run first scheme.

When Lamar does throw it guys are open because of how it is set up. And Lamer has made it work because of his improvement as a passer.

If Lamar has gone to a different team and been forced into a WCO or spread offense and was forced to play that way. The outcome would most likely be different.

Right guy to the right team.

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#1699241 - 11/27/19 12:45 PM Re: End of the Season Rookie QB Stats/Comparisons [Re: edromeo]
Swish Offline

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Posts: 43574
Loc: The Land
i just love the nfl.

the best QB's in the game right now are black, and the best RB in football is white.

hollywood couldnt come up with a better feel good scenario.
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#1699248 - 11/27/19 12:57 PM Re: End of the Season Rookie QB Stats/Comparisons [Re: bonefish]
edromeo Offline
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Posts: 4034
Originally Posted By: bonefish
Not going to take anything away from Lamar. His improvement as a passer and quarterback is to his credit.
Here is the thing though. You overstate his level of improvement because you misjudged his ability as passer from the outset. People underestimated Lamar's ability as a passer because of a bogus media narrative that people bought into but that narrative simply wasn't true. You can go back and look at Lamar's stats as passer in college and he was just as good as Rosen IF not better and the stats bore that out.


Originally Posted By: bonefish
...However, major credit goes to the Raven organization.....They re-wrote the playbook. They designed blocking schemes to feature running the ball but based upon deception. They implemented RPO's to where Lamar has run/pass options that are hard cover because of the fear Lamar brings as a runner. Their offense is leading all the NFL.
To be clear the Browns use more RPOs then the Ravens. The Ravens use read-option and misdirection not RPOs.

Quote:
When Lamar does throw it guys are open because of how it is set up. And Lamer has made it work because of his improvement as a passer.
Not true. Lamar's receivers are less wide open then Baker...the receiver separations stats are available at NFL Next gen stats I posted them before. And again, you're overstating Lamar's improvement as passer because he was already just as good if not a better passer then the other QBs in the draft class (except for Baker who was better).

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#1699277 - 11/27/19 02:00 PM Re: End of the Season Rookie QB Stats/Comparisons [Re: edromeo]
bonefish Offline

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Registered: 04/03/07
Posts: 6007
Loc: Back in Atl. Ga.

I didn't misjudge his passing ability in college.

It was there for all to see.

If he was such a great passer he would have been drafted way higher than he was. That is a fact.

Read option is Run/Pass Option. It is the same thing.

Look at the completion % improvement for last year as a pro and this year.

Why do you think the narrative from people like Boogar McFarland (who I have great respect for) and many scouts was Lamar should change positions? Become a runner or receiver?

Because his throwing ability in college was not very good. Not just in completion %. Just in general. I saw him over throw guys by 5 yards and more. He was at best inconsistent.

I give Lamar major credit. It very hard to improve bad mechanics in such a short time.

I am in his court. But make no mistake what you are seeing now; was not what he was in college or even last year.

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#1699278 - 11/27/19 02:07 PM Re: End of the Season Rookie QB Stats/Comparisons [Re: bonefish]
DiamDawg Offline

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Posts: 13890
Originally Posted By: bonefish
Not going to take anything away from Lamar. His improvement as a passer and quarterback is to his credit.

However, major credit goes to the Raven organization.They drafted him.

Then they committed to him by moving Flacco.

And last they built an offense to take full advantage of Lamar's skills. Not only did they build the offense but they have made it work.

They re-wrote the playbook. They designed blocking schemes to feature running the ball but based upon deception. They implemented RPO's to where Lamar has run/pass options that are hard cover because of the fear Lamar brings as a runner. Their offense is leading all the NFL.

That is hard to accomplish in a run first scheme.

When Lamar does throw it guys are open because of how it is set up. And Lamer has made it work because of his improvement as a passer.

If Lamar has gone to a different team and been forced into a WCO or spread offense and was forced to play that way. The outcome would most likely be different.

Right guy to the right team.


Agree with everything u said .... he's throwing the ball much better now than he did ... well EVER .. still not sold that its good enough .... juryís still out for me ....

heís had a great run since our game .... not sure why others arenít emulating our game plan ...

I do love watching him play ... heíd be a great RB .... never thought thereíd be a better running QB than Steve Young .... this dude may be ... heís dynamic as heck .... lots of fun to watch ... if he keeps it up the only thing that will stink is the fact heís in our division ...

Still not sold ... but damm is on a great run and trending way way up ...
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#1699300 - 11/27/19 03:48 PM Re: End of the Season Rookie QB Stats/Comparisons [Re: DiamDawg]
bonefish Offline

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Registered: 04/03/07
Posts: 6007
Loc: Back in Atl. Ga.

Football media coverage is so reactionary.

Mahomes will be the greatest. Nobody can do what he is doing.

Oh wait. Baker should have won the ROY. Wait he sucks and is overrated. Wait he is getting better.

Lamar for MVP. The Ravens are unstoppable. They will win the Super Bowl. Lamar is the greatest thing since. Aaaa Patrick Mahomes.

The Ravens have been playing great. You can see the confidence. But I have seen and heard this all before.

Things can go sour in a hurry.

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#1699307 - 11/27/19 04:25 PM Re: End of the Season Rookie QB Stats/Comparisons [Re: Swish]
Swish Offline

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Posts: 43574
Loc: The Land
This is why itís so infuriating to talk about Lamar AND baker.

People just canít enjoy the ride. Always ďhe might get hurtĒ or whatever it is about baker.

Itís like yíall got personal bets on who will be better, like yíall put the house on the line without telling your wife.

Baker has a chance to be better over a longer period of time. But right now Lamar is that dude and is putting on a show unseen since Vick. Just enjoy it man damn.
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#1699312 - 11/27/19 04:50 PM Re: End of the Season Rookie QB Stats/Comparisons [Re: bonefish]
devicedawg Offline

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Posts: 4155
If I'm the Ravens I pay Roman an exorbitant amount of money to stay.

I'm not surprised by Lamar, and I still wouldn't take him over Baker. What the Ravens did we wouldn't have done.

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#1699327 - 11/27/19 06:04 PM Re: End of the Season Rookie QB Stats/Comparisons [Re: bonefish]
edromeo Offline
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Registered: 03/28/16
Posts: 4034
Originally Posted By: bonefish

I didn't misjudge his passing ability in college.





Originally Posted By: bonefish
If he was such a great passer he would have been drafted way higher than he was. That is a fact.
Not even close to a fact. This is the definition of spurious. This post is an example of circular reasoning at its finest.

Quote:
Read option is Run/Pass Option. It is the same thing.
C'mon I thought you knew football? A Read-Option and a Run-Pass Option are NOT the same thing. Ask your boy diam.

Quote:
Look at the completion % improvement for last year as a pro and this year.
And.....

Quote:
Why do you think the narrative from people like Boogar McFarland (who I have great respect for) and many scouts was Lamar should change positions? Become a runner or receiver?
Um because they were dead dog wrong and many have admitting to being wrong like your boy Booger.

Quote:
Because his throwing ability in college was not very good.
This is factually incorrect and it was posted at the time by myself and others prior to Lamar success. Do I need to drag up all the stats that proved that Lamar was just as good if not better as a passer then the other QBs in his draft class? (excluding Bake)

Quote:
I give Lamar major credit. It very hard to improve bad mechanics in such a short time.
No its not just very hard its impossible to improve from where YOU think Lamar was a passer (then) to where he is now. It's not something just tweaking mechanics can accomplish.

Quote:
But make no mistake what you are seeing now; was not what he was in college or even last year.
Its fun watching and reading the mental gymnastics some will go to just so they don't have to admit that their assessment of Lamar was dead ass wrong.


Edited by edromeo (11/27/19 06:09 PM)

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#1699335 - 11/27/19 06:40 PM Re: End of the Season Rookie QB Stats/Comparisons [Re: FATE]
Dawgs4Life Offline

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Registered: 09/11/06
Posts: 49603
Loc: Edinboro, PA
Originally Posted By: FATE
Those are some ridiculous numbers.

its truly impressive
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#1699364 - 11/27/19 07:56 PM Re: End of the Season Rookie QB Stats/Comparisons [Re: edromeo]
bonefish Offline

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Registered: 04/03/07
Posts: 6007
Loc: Back in Atl. Ga.

I stated I don't know how many times I was wrong about Lamar. When looking at what he doing now.

I don't care what college stat you show. I saw his tape.

The facts remains if he was so highly rated as a passer in college; he would have been drafted higher.

What is so difficult to understand about that?

I could care less what you posted before. That does not mean you were correct.

Anybody with knowledge about the position looking at Lamar in college would come to the same conclusion.

He has a long way to go to become a NFL passer. That assessment is not derogatory. He won a Heisman. It has to do with him throwing the ball.

Completion % improvement. You stated he didn't improve because he was already accurate. I know Boogar admitted it. He was wrong like many others including myself. He didn't just tweek his mechanics. If you want to discuss throwing a football. Anytime.

Read option and RPO are basically the same. Read option is still a double option. Zone blocking directional with the read option of where to run. Passer has an option. RPO is still a double option. Run it or pass it. Don't need to be told.

Go back and pretend you knew it all along. That he was the most accurate passer in college. And you know more than people like MacFarland.

I am not one to say I am right all the time. But I have broken down more quarterback play and been right way more than I have been wrong. Pull the archives around draft time for like the last ten years.

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#1699394 - 11/27/19 11:00 PM Re: End of the Season Rookie QB Stats/Comparisons [Re: bonefish]
edromeo Offline
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Registered: 03/28/16
Posts: 4034
Originally Posted By: bonefish

I stated I don't know how many times I was wrong about Lamar. When looking at what he doing now.
Lol, that's the whole point. You don't even need to look at what Lamar is doing now.....your assessment was wrong back then.

All you've ever had was empty rhetoric and "eye test" claims.
No film, no stats. My point all along has been to just look at the evidence and the evidence showed Lamar was a good passer. It always had. The narrative surrounding Lamar was WRONG! It was wrong then and it remains wrong now.

Quote:
I don't care what college stat you show.
No offense but this is a dumb way to argue, especially about modern day football.

Quote:
The facts remains if he was so highly rated as a passer in college; he would have been drafted higher.
No bonefish, that is hardly a fact. Its just circular reasoning.
It's nonsensical to judge Lamar's actual production based on his draft status. You understand that Lamar's production is real and his draft status literally has no impact on his production. That's just silly pseudo-logic. But, it easy to make these spurious statements because when the facts are shown you'll just say you don't care about them...lol.


Quote:

I could care less what you posted before. That does not mean you were correct.
Of course you care. If you didn't care then you wouldn't protest so much and we could just have a discussion about the thread topic.

Quote:
Anybody with knowledge about the position looking at Lamar in college would come to the same conclusion.
Not true at all. Different people have differing valuations and assessments on the same prospect all the time. Many draft media had ill-informed takes on Lamar that were easily disproven by either watching Louisville games or even a cursory look at the QB draft prospect stats.

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He has a long way to go to become a NFL passer. That assessment is not derogatory.
Its not derogatory its just wrong and defensive and clearly illustrates why you were wrong before and from the looks of this comment remain wrong now.


Quote:
You stated he didn't improve because he was already accurate.
Nope. That's not what I stated by why let that stop you?



Quote:
Read option and RPO are basically the same...
Lol, c'mon now. You made a statement that was wrong. Read-option and RPOs are not the same thing and the Ravens don't use many RPOs. The Browns use more RPOs then the Ravens that was your point and now you're trying to backpedal away from a simple mistake you made that's not a even a big deal its an honest mistake people make all the time. But point remains they are not the same thing like you said they were.




Quote:
Go back and pretend you knew it all along. That he was the most accurate passer in college.
I don't need to pretend because I posted it with STATs! And again don't make stuff up you can quote what I said and I didn't say he was the most accurate passer in college.

Quote:
And you know more than people like MacFarland.
Even media experts can be wrong and yes there were a bunch of them that had wrong takes and wrong narratives about Lamar Jackson.


Edited by edromeo (11/27/19 11:03 PM)

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#1699427 - 11/28/19 08:02 AM Re: End of the Season Rookie QB Stats/Comparisons [Re: bonefish]
DiamDawg Offline

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Posts: 13890
Donít bother with this dude .... he only understands stats and not the game of football ... its been evident since his first post proclaiming RG3 would be our savior and was extremely accurate .....

I disagreed and weíve been great friends ever since ... *L* ....

Seriously ... heís a stat dude who couldnít have been any more wrong about RG3 and now look how heís twisting your words .... waste of time bro ...
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#1699432 - 11/28/19 08:28 AM Re: End of the Season Rookie QB Stats/Comparisons [Re: DiamDawg]
edromeo Offline
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Registered: 03/28/16
Posts: 4034
Originally Posted By: DiamDawg
Donít bother with this dude .... he only understands stats and not the game of football ... its been evident since his first post proclaiming RG3 would be our savior and was extremely accurate .....

I disagreed and weíve been great friends ever since ... *L* ....

Seriously ... heís a stat dude who couldnít have been any more wrong about RG3 and now look how heís twisting your words .... waste of time bro ...
Some people actually breakdown football and like to discuss it. Others like to state their opinions as facts yet provide NO SUPPORT for their opinions just empty rhetoric.

Instead of discussing the information put forth you/they make personal attacks the and ignore the stats. You make claims about film but ignore the film that is ACTUALLY posted and you/posse NEVER post any film of your own.....despite making claims about film.

In short you ignore, attack whatever you donít agree with and you make up false claims. I never said Grifffin was your savior, But naturally you dislike the QB that actually brought you a win despite the team all around him actively tanking and the team went on to go winless without him but you think that makes your point, lol.

And you press on despite being wrong... go back to your ďevalsĒ Mitch over inaccurate Watson.
You guys are the only people in this forum Iíve had problems with OR more accurately you guys are the only ones that have had problems with me. You, bone, eotab etc...Other poster have told me itís becausr you guys are threatened by the information.

Oh well, cheers all the same.


Edited by edromeo (11/28/19 08:29 AM)

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#1699486 - 11/28/19 12:30 PM Re: End of the Season Rookie QB Stats/Comparisons [Re: edromeo]
bonefish Offline

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Registered: 04/03/07
Posts: 6007
Loc: Back in Atl. Ga.

College stats vs. NFL draft position.

How could where a player is drafted impact his college production? What?

No, what he does and how he does it in college impacts where he is drafted.

College stats vs. NFL production.

Lets see here. NFL teams dedicate massive resources to scout college players. People, time, money, work and careers are at stake on the selections.

And because you post how Louisville and Lamar does against Kent State you have all the data needed?

No variables in college games nothing to look at there the stats tell it all.

"Empty rhetoric and eye tests." Rhetoric and eye tests yes, that is exactly what I have. "Empty" oh, ouch, the pain.

Evidence? Read the scouting reports on Lamar in college. Pick the ones that you feel are legit. No wait. Open your eyes. That is what the NFL community does when they evaluate players.

But who needs to argue? You have all the answers.

Maybe Monday Night Football lost your number and just thought, "hey will call this Booger guy."

Since you know how college quarterbacks will perform in the NFL they must be beating a path to your doorstop Ed?

Maybe you should start a draft consulting business.
You might need to freshen up your resume with all the BS you spout.

I have serious doubts that you have any clue about the quarterback position and anything that has to do with throwing a football?

Tim Tebow had great college stats how did that work out?

Show me your breakdown on Tebow.

You want to call me out?

I watch games. Every once in awhile I comment on what I see. Never claimed to be an expert. Don't make a living in professional football.

But you are the expert. I will make sure that I follow all of what you write because I need the education.

Happy Thanksgiving Ed. I am thankful for all you post.

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#1699503 - 11/28/19 01:23 PM Re: End of the Season Rookie QB Stats/Comparisons [Re: Swish]
DiamDawg Offline

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Registered: 11/06/06
Posts: 13890
Quote:
But you are the expert.


And that right there is all u need to know about him ... thumbsup

Hes such a waste of time I didnít ever read his reply to me ... thumbsup
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#1699510 - 11/28/19 01:53 PM Re: End of the Season Rookie QB Stats/Comparisons [Re: edromeo]
bonefish Offline

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Registered: 04/03/07
Posts: 6007
Loc: Back in Atl. Ga.

Hey Ed, when did football become modern?

Did that happen during a specific year?

Maybe during a month or a game? Do you have the date football became modern?

I need to know that and I'm sure you have that answer.

I need the reference so I can better frame my posts.

Thanks in advance.

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#1699529 - 11/28/19 02:58 PM Re: End of the Season Rookie QB Stats/Comparisons [Re: DiamDawg]
PitDAWG Offline

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Posts: 37690
Loc: Smyrna, TN.
He never even broke the 60% completion in passes in a single season at Louisville.
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#1699589 - 11/28/19 09:25 PM Re: End of the Season Rookie QB Stats/Comparisons [Re: Swish]
edromeo Offline
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Registered: 03/28/16
Posts: 4034
You guys have made great contributions to the the thread!
Whenever you guys post, like in the past, itís always insightful. Thanks again for the great convo and contribution. Now that youíre done proclaiming that lol your evals of Lamar as a passer were correct maybe youíll let the rest of us get back to the thread topic?

Thanks again fellas, always a pleasure!


Edited by edromeo (11/28/19 09:26 PM)

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#1699592 - 11/28/19 09:54 PM Re: End of the Season Rookie QB Stats/Comparisons [Re: Swish]
EveDawg Offline

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Loc: Y'allywood
I feel the amount of Lamar humping on this thread is getting gross and sticky.

Dont root for a division rival.

Whats wrong with you people?
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#1699593 - 11/28/19 10:03 PM Re: End of the Season Rookie QB Stats/Comparisons [Re: EveDawg]
PortlandDawg Offline

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Registered: 09/11/06
Posts: 5428
Loc: Portland, OR
Originally Posted By: EveDawg
I feel the amount of Lamar humping on this thread is getting gross and sticky.

Dont root for a division rival.

Whats wrong with you people?


Agreed. I wish all opposing AFCN draft picks are busts. I wish short careers (I didnít say injuries.. smile ) for talented opposing players.
Even beloved Buckeyes become dead to me when they wear rival NFL colors.
I have no interest in fantasy football as I have no desire to root for non Browns.

May Lamar come back to earth. May his career end without championships or many playoff appearances. I see him no differently that I saw Mason Rudolph before our last game with them.
The enemy.

I agree Eve, itís gross.
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#1699598 - 11/28/19 11:24 PM Re: End of the Season Rookie QB Stats/Comparisons [Re: EveDawg]
lampdogg Offline

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Posts: 10872
Loc: east coast Canada
i hate Baltimore and donít like Pittsburgh much either.
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#1699620 - 11/29/19 10:11 AM Re: End of the Season Rookie QB Stats/Comparisons [Re: Swish]
edromeo Offline
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Registered: 03/28/16
Posts: 4034
End of the Season Rookie QB Stats/Comparisons-

This is a continuation thread from last year.
Where were all the gripes about QB comparisons last year and the beginning of this year?
But all of sudden, now that Lamar is in the running for NFL MVP this thread is drawing all this negativity.


Edited by edromeo (11/29/19 10:13 AM)

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