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#1702791 - 12/05/19 01:24 PM Re: Odell [Re: DiamDawg]
rastanplan Offline

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Registered: 03/08/13
Posts: 2178
Originally Posted By: DiamDawg
What would have been your highest priority? ,... not looking for a debate, just curious as to what u would have considered our biggest weakness ....


Head Coach and Backup QB.

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#1702792 - 12/05/19 01:24 PM Re: Odell [Re: willitevachange]
PitDAWG Offline

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Originally Posted By: willitevachange

For someone who I think if fairly intelligent, I don't see why you think last year has anything to consider about this year. What does their performance about last mean? Nothing. It has no bearing on this year or what they are doing now, or the fact that even though they played decently at times last year, that the GMs job is to do one thing - improve every position he can. I give you that the way he handled Robinson was the right way - give him a 1 year prove it again deal. No problems with that. But to completely negate the fact that Hubbard stinks, and not try to improve that spot - was criminal. Especially when you got rid of any TE that would have helped him a little.


Who would you have signed or drafted to improve the Positions? What price would you have paid for a modest upgrade?

And it seems that you are missing something here. You ALWAYS review the season to see what your needs are. You look at the performance of your current roster. That's what determines your needs to address during the off season.

That's what a player did last year has to do with going into next year.
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#1702793 - 12/05/19 01:31 PM Re: Odell [Re: rastanplan]
DCDAWGFAN Offline

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Quote:
Players should be judge for their production first. Our Tackles gave 8 sacks, which is not a bad number, so pointing at them for the main reason of our lack of production is not fair.

We also have the 10th best run offense in the league, which I tend to associate with line quality.

Our tackles have showed some indiscipline ( 8 penalties for Hubbard, and 6 for Robinson) which they must improve, but even so considering the team numbers its not that bad.

QB play and capacity to read D's play a vital role on the OL play, so does the huddle command and making sure everybody is lined up properly.

IMHO, OL has played much better than our QB, and I think that is indisputable.

Very few things are indisputable.. sacks are only one metric in determining how an OL is performing... and some OLs are much better at run blocking than pass blocking so saying being good at one is a sign of "quality" at the other isn't always true.

Getting people into the right position is THEIR job, not the QBs... Baker spends time on damn near every snap getting people to move around to the right position.

Frequently this year our playcalling has looked erratic and had no rhythm to it.... to start the season we were getting to the LOS extremely late due to slow play calling.. at times the blocking has been extremely suspect... Baker has looked confused at times and had some obvious mis-communications with receivers...

I do not agree that it's indisputable that the OL has outperformed Baker, both have had issues at times that, coupled with some bizarre playcalling, has led to this offense never really finding a sustainable rhythm.
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#1702799 - 12/05/19 01:41 PM Re: Odell [Re: rastanplan]
willitevachange Offline
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Quote:
Players should be judge for their production first. Our Tackles gave 8 sacks, which is not a bad number, so pointing at them for the main reason of our lack of production is not fair.
How many pressures and missed blocks have they given up?

Quote:
We also have the 10th best run offense in the league, which I tend to associate with line quality.
How many yards does Chubb and Hunt have after contact? You realize he gets hit ALOT behind the LOS and still gets 2-3 yards right? Chubb and Hunt will make the line look better than they are as far as rush offense goes.

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#1702800 - 12/05/19 01:41 PM Re: Odell [Re: DCDAWGFAN]
PitDAWG Offline

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Actually you can look at pressures and hits on a QB as well in regards to how well your pass blocking is. It's not a tell all by any means as Baker seems to move around in the pocket well to minimize those things.

I think learning an entirely new system going into the season created some confusion and contributed getting to the line late.

And I understand what people say about creating an identity on O. But at the same time being predictable is never a good thing either.
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#1702810 - 12/05/19 02:01 PM Re: Odell [Re: PitDAWG]
oobernoober Offline

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Originally Posted By: PitDAWG
Actually you can look at pressures and hits on a QB as well in regards to how well your pass blocking is. It's not a tell all by any means as Baker seems to move around in the pocket well to minimize those things.

I think learning an entirely new system going into the season created some confusion and contributed getting to the line late.

And I understand what people say about creating an identity on O. But at the same time being predictable is never a good thing either.


And when said new O involves leaving your Oline out to dry while running your receivers downfield, that's an additional strain on the line.


As I've said before. I don't think the Oline is bad. They are all at least NFL backup quality. They belong on NFL rosters, and they'd be at least competing for a starting spot and most NFL rosters.
But they're not good enough for what we're doing here. We need the line to be dominant in order to execute the pass-happy O that Kitchens wants to run, and they need to be dominant while we continue to go along Baker's path of development.
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#1702811 - 12/05/19 02:04 PM Re: Odell [Re: oobernoober]
MemphisBrownie Offline

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wut?
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#1702813 - 12/05/19 02:06 PM Re: Odell [Re: rastanplan]
mac Offline

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Originally Posted By: rastanplan
Last year we were better because we played rubbish teams and bad defenses,and Baker didn't have to take risks and win games.

I think that is quite evident now.



Really...?...rubbish teams?
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#1702829 - 12/05/19 02:27 PM Re: Odell [Re: oobernoober]
PitDAWG Offline

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Our OL certainly isn't the caliber to execute the long passing game. But still, you have to make some of those attempts to keep the opposing teams D honest.

But I think fans saying that's the O we're trying to run base that more on emotion than reality. Would I like to see us run more? Yes I would. But there are D's we don't match up so well against in the run game either.

I guess what I'm saying is we are smack dab in the middle of the league in rushing attempts. To me that doesn't indicate some pass happy team that the fans seem to think they see.

Sometimes perception is everything even when it's actually not.
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#1702832 - 12/05/19 02:35 PM Re: Odell [Re: PitDAWG]
willitevachange Offline
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Quote:
I guess what I'm saying is we are smack dab in the middle of the league in rushing attempts. To me that doesn't indicate some pass happy team that the fans seem to think they see.
I talked about this with Vers once and he agreed. Its not HOW much we are running with this offense, its WHEN that is the problem.

We will run 15 times by half time, then run 6 times in a 1 score game in the second half. that give the illusion we ran the ball effectively and we were somewhat balanced, but we were not in reality. I am seeing a team that gets away from the run when we should be utilizing it in key moments

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#1702842 - 12/05/19 02:46 PM Re: Odell [Re: MemphisBrownie]
superbowldogg Offline

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Originally Posted By: MemphisBrownie


wut?


terrible quote by the media
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#1702845 - 12/05/19 02:49 PM Re: Odell [Re: superbowldogg]
Milk Man Online   content

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j/c...


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#1702846 - 12/05/19 02:49 PM Re: Odell [Re: Milk Man]
Milk Man Online   content

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#1702849 - 12/05/19 02:52 PM Re: Odell [Re: Milk Man]
Milk Man Online   content

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#1702908 - 12/05/19 04:31 PM Re: Odell [Re: willitevachange]
oobernoober Offline

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Originally Posted By: willitevachange
Quote:
I guess what I'm saying is we are smack dab in the middle of the league in rushing attempts. To me that doesn't indicate some pass happy team that the fans seem to think they see.
I talked about this with Vers once and he agreed. Its not HOW much we are running with this offense, its WHEN that is the problem.

We will run 15 times by half time, then run 6 times in a 1 score game in the second half. that give the illusion we ran the ball effectively and we were somewhat balanced, but we were not in reality. I am seeing a team that gets away from the run when we should be utilizing it in key moments



This. There are several oft-repeated gripes this season (passing 2-3 consecutive times in short yardage situations, apparently not knowing you can run it twice in a row, emptying the backfield on 3rd down, etc).
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#1702929 - 12/05/19 06:07 PM Re: Odell [Re: Milk Man]
SuperBrown Offline

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What's with the goofy hat and a hoodie? rofl

Bill Bellichick should try that look.

It could only improve his fashion skills.

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#1702951 - 12/05/19 09:55 PM Re: Odell [Re: PitDAWG]
Dawg Duty Offline

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Originally Posted By: PitDAWG
Originally Posted By: PDXBrownsFan
our Oline was a known weakness, yet he didn't address it in the offseason and it has plagued us all year.


Yet it's the two OT's that seem to be the problem. The exact same OT's we had during the last half of last season. You remember, when we were winning?


Did you watch Hubbard last week/ The guy was a joke. He didn't slow up little Watt even a little bit.

Problem gotta be Freddy and the O-line.

Odell has been a big dissapointment to me. Baker has bounced several off Odell's hands. A couple for INTs. I think he tries to hard to get on Sportcenter with one handed catches which he usually drops. I would trade him in a minute for a couple of good O-linemen.

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#1702968 - 12/06/19 05:39 AM Re: Odell [Re: Dawg Duty]
rastanplan Offline

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Registered: 03/08/13
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Originally Posted By: Dawg Duty
Originally Posted By: PitDAWG
Originally Posted By: PDXBrownsFan
our Oline was a known weakness, yet he didn't address it in the offseason and it has plagued us all year.


Yet it's the two OT's that seem to be the problem. The exact same OT's we had during the last half of last season. You remember, when we were winning?


Did you watch Hubbard last week/ The guy was a joke. He didn't slow up little Watt even a little bit.

Problem gotta be Freddy and the O-line.

Odell has been a big dissapointment to me. Baker has bounced several off Odell's hands. A couple for INTs. I think he tries to hard to get on Sportcenter with one handed catches which he usually drops. I would trade him in a minute for a couple of good O-linemen.


How can OBJ be a disappointment when we have such a bad QB?

And how many sacks has Hubbard allowed?

Stop using other players to make excuses for Baker.


Edited by rastanplan (12/06/19 05:40 AM)

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#1702987 - 12/06/19 07:59 AM Re: Odell [Re: rastanplan]
devicedawg Offline

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Or, perhaps you should stop using Baker to make excuses for other players.

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#1702992 - 12/06/19 08:29 AM Re: Odell [Re: devicedawg]
BADdog Offline

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I have a thought...( dont ask it hurts ) maybe Freddie Is drawing up such strange plays and routes that it makes it really difficult for receiver and QB to be on the same page. On top of QB being a rookie and Oline play. Baker has the tools to be a great QB. I think he is in a very bad coaching situation.
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#1702997 - 12/06/19 09:01 AM Re: Odell [Re: devicedawg]
rastanplan Offline

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Originally Posted By: devicedawg
Or, perhaps you should stop using Baker to make excuses for other players.


OBJ is doing fine, what are you talking about. He is a great Wr just like Jarvis.

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#1703012 - 12/06/19 09:24 AM Re: Odell [Re: rastanplan]
devicedawg Offline

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If you say so...

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#1703017 - 12/06/19 09:30 AM Re: Odell [Re: MemphisBrownie]
oobernoober Offline

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Originally Posted By: MemphisBrownie


wut?


I know we use a different scale, but this is super-well-behaved-OBJ, considering the situation. The season is far worse than any could have predicted both team-wise and for him individually and so I would've expected more along the lines of a revival of the OBJ vs kicking net rivalry.
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#1703020 - 12/06/19 09:37 AM Re: Odell [Re: bonefish]
GratefulDawg Offline

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#1703032 - 12/06/19 09:54 AM Re: Odell [Re: GratefulDawg]
WSU Willie Offline

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j/c

I don't care if Odell stays or goes...unfortunately I cannot unwind the trade that brought him here.

However, what I WOULD do is sit down with him and explain to him what his offseason SHOULD look like (expectations) and I'd tell him DIRECTLY and in great detail what his OTAs and TC will look like (demands).

This part of our circus needs to end or move on.

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#1703037 - 12/06/19 09:56 AM Re: Odell [Re: WSU Willie]
oobernoober Offline

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Originally Posted By: WSU Willie
j/c

I don't care if Odell stays or goes...unfortunately I cannot unwind the trade that brought him here.

However, what I WOULD do is sit down with him and explain to him what his offseason SHOULD look like (expectations) and I'd tell him DIRECTLY and in great detail what his OTAs and TC will look like (demands).

This part of our circus needs to end or move on.


This offseason should (MUST) be completely opposite of last year's.
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#1703039 - 12/06/19 09:58 AM Re: Odell [Re: SuperBrown]
Haus Offline

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Originally Posted By: SuperBrown
What's with the goofy hat and a hoodie? rofl

Bill Bellichick should try that look.

It could only improve his fashion skills.

You can't improve on perfection.

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#1703043 - 12/06/19 10:02 AM Re: Odell [Re: oobernoober]
Haus Offline

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Originally Posted By: oobernoober
Originally Posted By: WSU Willie
j/c

I don't care if Odell stays or goes...unfortunately I cannot unwind the trade that brought him here.

However, what I WOULD do is sit down with him and explain to him what his offseason SHOULD look like (expectations) and I'd tell him DIRECTLY and in great detail what his OTAs and TC will look like (demands).

This part of our circus needs to end or move on.


This offseason should (MUST) be completely opposite of last year's.

Agreed. We need more substance, and not as much style.

Build up the O-line, maybe get a good all-around tight end in there, and most of all-- stress the importance of practice, teamwork, camaraderie, etc. This team plays too much as individuals and not enough as a team.

You cannot expect to just do your own thing all off-season, show up, and dominate at this level. It does not happen.

"We just go, if youíre here, you get better. If youíre not, you donít." - Andy Reid

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#1703050 - 12/06/19 10:26 AM Re: Odell [Re: WSU Willie]
YTownBrownsFan Online   confused

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Originally Posted By: WSU Willie
j/c

I don't care if Odell stays or goes...unfortunately I cannot unwind the trade that brought him here.

However, what I WOULD do is sit down with him and explain to him what his offseason SHOULD look like (expectations) and I'd tell him DIRECTLY and in great detail what his OTAs and TC will look like (demands).

This part of our circus needs to end or move on.


You cannot "demand" that a player attends OTAs. They are 100% voluntary in the CBA.
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#1703056 - 12/06/19 10:41 AM Re: Odell [Re: YTownBrownsFan]
WSU Willie Offline

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Registered: 09/23/06
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Originally Posted By: YTownBrownsFan
Originally Posted By: WSU Willie
j/c

I don't care if Odell stays or goes...unfortunately I cannot unwind the trade that brought him here.

However, what I WOULD do is sit down with him and explain to him what his offseason SHOULD look like (expectations) and I'd tell him DIRECTLY and in great detail what his OTAs and TC will look like (demands).

This part of our circus needs to end or move on.


You cannot "demand" that a player attends OTAs. They are 100% voluntary in the CBA.


Correct...and the speed limit on the highways around me is never greater than 70. thumbsup

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#1703064 - 12/06/19 11:10 AM Re: Odell [Re: rastanplan]
Dawg Duty Offline

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Originally Posted By: rastanplan
Originally Posted By: devicedawg
Or, perhaps you should stop using Baker to make excuses for other players.


OBJ is doing fine, what are you talking about. He is a great Wr just like Jarvis.


Agree on Jarvis but Odell notso much. Rumors out of Berea is Odell is not running good routes and not always where he should be.

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#1703067 - 12/06/19 11:14 AM Re: Odell [Re: Dawg Duty]
PitDAWG Offline

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And spreading unsubstantiated rumors is a favorite pass time of many on Dawgtalkers.
_________________________
Sashi Brown was so bad at his job in Cleveland, no other NFL team would even offer him a job. He has been relegated to being in charge of "the culture" of an NBA team. Oh how the mighty have fallen.

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#1703070 - 12/06/19 11:25 AM Re: Odell [Re: PitDAWG]
WSU Willie Offline

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Originally Posted By: PitDAWG
And spreading unsubstantiated rumors is a favorite pass time of many on Dawgtalkers.


The comments and opinions about Odell's lack of attention-to-detail and discipline are much greater in number outside the confines of this particular website than they are inside this website.

Look up Jake Burns articles...OBJ's route running is absolutely an issue.

Landry hasn't been perfect either - but better than Odell by a long shot. He ran the wrong end-of-route Sunday that resulted in the game-ending INT. The coaching of this team is woeful at best.

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#1703085 - 12/06/19 11:47 AM Re: Odell [Re: WSU Willie]
Rishuz Offline

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Originally Posted By: WSU Willie
j/c

I don't care if Odell stays or goes...unfortunately I cannot unwind the trade that brought him here.

However, what I WOULD do is sit down with him and explain to him what his offseason SHOULD look like (expectations) and I'd tell him DIRECTLY and in great detail what his OTAs and TC will look like (demands).

This part of our circus needs to end or move on.


If you have to sit down with him and tell him, it's already a lost cause.

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#1703093 - 12/06/19 11:56 AM Re: Odell [Re: WSU Willie]
PitDAWG Offline

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Registered: 09/10/06
Posts: 37683
Loc: Smyrna, TN.
So now it's Jake Burns opinion you decide to bring up?
_________________________
Sashi Brown was so bad at his job in Cleveland, no other NFL team would even offer him a job. He has been relegated to being in charge of "the culture" of an NBA team. Oh how the mighty have fallen.

#gmstrong

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#1703129 - 12/06/19 01:16 PM Re: Odell [Re: bonefish]
eotab Offline

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Quick synopsis of what I see:
Last year at this time, this was Baker's team he had this enthusiasm that spread to all.

What I have seen is that Landry and OBJ have taken over the team on O that is. It is no longer Baker's team. They talk to Baker to tell Kitchens this and that during games.

If you note Higgins is not catching any passes, Baker and him had this connection and it has been withdrawn...not by Baker.

If you notice when Landry or OBJ score a TD Baker comes running in to join the fun and last year his celebrations were electric...now he comes running up to the TWO and joins in and I've noticed the two totally ignore Baker...like what are you doing here this is our Party not yours.

If any of you are wondering what happened from last year to this how come its so different...It no longer is Bakers team where he would play naturally and produce. Now he must play Landry OBJ game and sorry the O sucks compared with last years. Well that is my story and I'm sticking too it.

jmho back to work...
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#1703137 - 12/06/19 01:30 PM Re: Odell [Re: eotab]
Dawgs4Life Offline

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Well said ... Iíve said it a few places, but the addition of OBJ has led to the subtraction of Bakerís swag
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#1703138 - 12/06/19 01:32 PM Re: Odell [Re: Dawgs4Life]
PitDAWG Offline

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Really? Blaming Baker's woes on the addition of a great talent is something that would only be created on Dawgtalkers.
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#1703147 - 12/06/19 01:53 PM Re: Odell [Re: PitDAWG]
WSU Willie Offline

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Registered: 09/23/06
Posts: 5425
Originally Posted By: PitDAWG
Really? Blaming Baker's woes on the addition of a great talent is something that would only be created on Dawgtalkers.


Well...you are moving the goal posts again.

#1 - No one on this board is absolving Baker of his own issues...he's got them for sure. A few loons on this board think he should be replaced by a backup QB.

#1a - The operative word above is talent. He has all the talent of any WR - maybe ever. But his play this year has come no where near expectations. That's not just a rumor on this website.

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#1703149 - 12/06/19 01:57 PM Re: Odell [Re: WSU Willie]
PitDAWG Offline

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Posts: 37683
Loc: Smyrna, TN.
Maybe you should double check what I was responding to.

Quote:
the addition of OBJ has led to the subtraction of Bakerís swag
_________________________
Sashi Brown was so bad at his job in Cleveland, no other NFL team would even offer him a job. He has been relegated to being in charge of "the culture" of an NBA team. Oh how the mighty have fallen.

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