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#1705829 - 12/12/19 05:33 PM Re: MLB "Hot Stove League" thread [Re: Dave]
GratefulDawg Offline

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Report: Indians have discussed trading Mike Clevinger in potential Francisco Lindor deal

According to David Vassegh of SportsNet LA, the Cleveland Indians have also discussed trading Mike Clevinger in a potential deal involving Francisco Lindor.
Author: Ben Axelrod
https://www.wkyc.com/article/sports/mlb/...c5-da88927a244b
On Wednesday, Bob Nightengale of USA Today reported that trade talks between the Cleveland Indians and Los Angeles Dodgers have gotten serious.

And according to a new report, Lindor may not be the only star player the Tribe sends to Southern California.

Appearing on the MLB Network on Thursday afternoon, David Vassegh of SportsNetLA and AM 570 LA Sports confirmed the Indians' discussions with the Dodgers and interest in Los Angeles' top prospect, Gavin Lux. But in doing so, Vassegh also revealed that an even bigger deal between the two teams could be in play, with Cleveland having also discussed the possibility of sending pitcher Mike Clevinger to L.A.


“The Dodgers have a lot of prospect capital and not just guys, but guys that can make a difference. Gavin Lux, from what I’ve been told, is a guy that the Indians would want in any deal for Francisco Lindor," Vassegh said. "And from what I’ve found out the last 24 hours, there have been different versions of the trade discussed that would involve Lindor and not Corey Kluber, but Lindor and possibly Mike Clevinger.”

While any trade involving Lindor would be considered a blockbuster, adding Clevinger to such package could make it seismic. Given Corey Kluber's recent injury history -- and availability on the trade market -- Clevinger projects as arguably the Indians' top pitcher entering 2020 after posting a 2.71 ERA, 13-4 record and 169 strikeouts in 21 starts last season.

Cleveland, however, has never been afraid to deal from a position of strength and could feel comfortable doing just that given the current state of its pitching staff. Aside from Kluber and Clevinger, the Indians lay claim to a trio of promising young arms in Shane Bieber, Zach Plesac and Aaron Civale and have also had reported interest in acquiring the Dodgers' No. 2 prospect, pitcher Dustin May, in a prospective trade.

In addition to Lux and May, Cleveland could also inquire about outfielder Alex Verdugo, who hit for a .294 average (.817 OPS), 12 home runs and 44 RBIs in 106 games at the big league level last season. The Dodgers likely wouldn't part with three promising players unless they were getting back proven star players in return and a package including Lindor and Clevinger would certainly qualify as just that.
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#1705830 - 12/12/19 05:35 PM Re: MLB "Hot Stove League" thread [Re: Dave]
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On the other hand ...


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#1705835 - 12/12/19 06:03 PM Re: MLB "Hot Stove League" thread [Re: Milk Man]
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Originally Posted By: Milk Man
j/c...

My seats are going to be behind the net now. Groan.

It was only a matter of time, however.



I'm glad they're doing this.
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#1705836 - 12/12/19 06:05 PM Re: MLB "Hot Stove League" thread [Re: Dave]
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Originally Posted By: Dave
On the other hand ...



I think the Indians are going into this talk knowing they cannot afford Lindor once he becomes a FA (duh), but don't necessarily want to trade him with the playoff aspirations that still exist. However, if a team meets their extremely high demands now, I think they might pull the trigger.

These talks remind me of the Kluber trade rumors last season. Ask for the world and see who takes the bait.
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#1705837 - 12/12/19 06:07 PM Re: MLB "Hot Stove League" thread [Re: GratefulDawg]
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I would consider trading Kluber, even though I hate trading pitching, because its anybody's guess whether he can regain his C.Y. form. But I don't want to trade Clevinger.

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#1705838 - 12/12/19 06:18 PM Re: MLB "Hot Stove League" thread [Re: MemphisBrownie]
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Agreed, their leverage with regards to trading Lindor will never be higher. Rather than accepting a "good" deal, they should hold out for a great deal.

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#1705853 - 12/12/19 07:47 PM Re: MLB "Hot Stove League" thread [Re: Dave]
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Originally Posted By: Dave
Agreed, their leverage with regards to trading Lindor will never be higher. Rather than accepting a "good" deal, they should hold out for a great deal.



No doubt it has to be a really good deal. But, we are never going to be able to sign him. I offer him my best deal now.

If that doesn't fly, I trade him to the highest bidder.


You have to. You just offered the most money you could.....you have to move on while you still have the leverage of time.

Like I said before, a city like Cleveland needs to win with young players and a few decent vets mingled in the mix. We can't out and out buy a world series.
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#1705857 - 12/12/19 08:29 PM Re: MLB "Hot Stove League" thread [Re: Ballpeen]
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I think the Indians probably feel like they have already made their best offer to extend Lindor. I know they already offered $100M/7-8years to him 2 years ago when they still held 4 years control and he was making a lot less than the $16M he'll make this year, and he declined the offer. They really can't pay one guy the $35M kind of money that Machado and Harper got and still maintain a major league roster, and that's the kind of money he'll command.

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#1705866 - 12/12/19 09:36 PM Re: MLB "Hot Stove League" thread [Re: Dave]
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Originally Posted By: Dave
Agreed, their leverage with regards to trading Lindor will never be higher. Rather than accepting a "good" deal, they should hold out for a great deal.


I'll be extremely surprised if Lindor is traded this season. I doubt any team will give up the haul required to make it an offer they cannot refuse. Next year, yes, he's likely gone, unfortunately.

Trading Clevinger would really irk me.

I'm ok trading Kluber. Lots of young pitching talent. Get something for him while you can and the wheels come off him. He's trending down, not up, imo.

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#1705965 - 12/13/19 12:21 PM Re: MLB "Hot Stove League" thread [Re: Dave]
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MLB removes marijuana from 'drugs of abuse,' to test major league players for opioids

https://www.yahoo.com/sports/mlb-removes-marijuana-drugs-abuse-170126518.html

Also breaking: Josh Gordon quits football, signs with MLB team for 5 years, 120 million.
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#1706267 - 12/15/19 12:24 PM Re: MLB "Hot Stove League" thread [Re: Dave]
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Per Jon Heyman of MLB.com, Corey Kluber traded to the Texas Rangers:

https://twitter.com/JonHeyman

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#1706269 - 12/15/19 12:33 PM Re: MLB "Hot Stove League" thread [Re: Dave]
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#1706278 - 12/15/19 12:49 PM Re: MLB "Hot Stove League" thread [Re: Dawgs4Life]
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#1706279 - 12/15/19 12:49 PM Re: MLB "Hot Stove League" thread [Re: Dave]
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#1706284 - 12/15/19 12:54 PM Re: MLB "Hot Stove League" thread [Re: Dave]
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Wonder if you guys posting Twitter post would mind including a brief summary of its contents? For some reason, I'm not seeing Twitter posts for about the last week. Thanks.

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#1706286 - 12/15/19 12:57 PM Re: MLB "Hot Stove League" thread [Re: Dave]
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Twitter text: OF Delino DeShields Jr. and RHP Emmanuel Clase heading to #Indians for Kluber, source tells The Athletic.
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#1706290 - 12/15/19 01:06 PM Re: MLB "Hot Stove League" thread [Re: Dave]
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Emmanuel Clase with your standard 100mph Cutter.
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#1706291 - 12/15/19 01:07 PM Re: MLB "Hot Stove League" thread [Re: Dave]
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Clase last season in the minors had 50 Ks in 44 2/3 innings, then was promoted to the majors and recorded 21 Ks in 23 1/3 innings. Has a cutter that reaches triple digits that he pairs with a slider.

https://twitter.com/ByRyanLewis/status/1206272083082305537
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#1706296 - 12/15/19 01:13 PM Re: MLB "Hot Stove League" thread [Re: Dave]
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Feels like Tito banged the table for Deshields after learning he twice lead the league in Sac Bunts

https://twitter.com/jeffMLBdraft/status/1206275073616883718
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#1706298 - 12/15/19 01:18 PM Re: MLB "Hot Stove League" thread [Re: GratefulDawg]
Day of the Dawg Offline

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Originally Posted By: GratefulDawg
Clase last season in the minors had 50 Ks in 44 2/3 innings, then was promoted to the majors and recorded 21 Ks in 23 1/3 innings. Has a cutter that reaches triple digits that he pairs with a slider.

https://twitter.com/ByRyanLewis/status/1206272083082305537


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#1706308 - 12/15/19 01:46 PM Re: MLB "Hot Stove League" thread [Re: Dave]
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Originally Posted By: Dave
Per Jon Heyman of MLB.com, Corey Kluber traded to the Texas Rangers:

https://twitter.com/JonHeyman


I wish him all the best. I totally understand this trade for the Indians. Especially if Lindor is dealt, which that sounds like it is possible.

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#1706309 - 12/15/19 01:46 PM Re: MLB "Hot Stove League" thread [Re: Dave]
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It doesn't seem like enough for a two time CYA winner, unless maybe the Indians think Kluber's tank is getting low. Indians better spend at least some of that $17.5M they're saving on this year's payroll, or its gonna be a crapstorm of negativity from fans here.

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#1706321 - 12/15/19 02:07 PM Re: MLB "Hot Stove League" thread [Re: Dave]
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Hopefully those prospects pan out
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#1706324 - 12/15/19 02:17 PM Re: MLB "Hot Stove League" thread [Re: GratefulDawg]
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I don't know much about the pitching prospect but the return, on the surface, feels a little light. I get age, contract, injury issues....still seems thin.

#InAntonettiITrust
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#1706329 - 12/15/19 02:28 PM Re: MLB "Hot Stove League" thread [Re: Dave]
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I thought we'd get more in return for Kluber. Dumped a lot of salary on this trade.

Intrigued by Clase. May have our closer for the foreseeable future. Fastball and slider guy.


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#1706345 - 12/15/19 03:03 PM Re: MLB "Hot Stove League" thread [Re: Milk Man]
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Originally Posted By: Milk Man
I thought we'd get more in return for Kluber. Dumped a lot of salary on this trade.


Agreed. I'm a little underwhelmed by this trade

Originally Posted By: Milk Man
Intrigued by Clase. May have our closer for the foreseeable future. Fastball and slider guy.


Between Clase and James Karinchak we are clearly moving to a power arm bullpen
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#1706365 - 12/15/19 03:39 PM Re: MLB "Hot Stove League" thread [Re: Dave]
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I think we got a decent return for Kluber.

I am sure we'll try to get a huge return on Lindor, since he seems unlikely (at best) to re-sign here. I would be extremely ticked off if we trade Clevinger.
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#1706371 - 12/15/19 03:49 PM Re: MLB "Hot Stove League" thread [Re: Dave]
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Chris Antonetti was asked if the Kluber trade will influence what they may/may not do with Lindor this offseason:

"No. As I’ve said before, I have every expectation that Francisco Lindor will be our starting shortstop Opening Day next year."

https://twitter.com/MandyBell02/status/1206314364422230016
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#1707091 - 12/15/19 06:31 PM Re: MLB "Hot Stove League" thread [Re: Milk Man]
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Kinda underwhelmed by that trade. A career .246 hitter and the Rangers' 30th ranked prospect.
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#1708495 - 12/18/19 05:25 PM Re: MLB "Hot Stove League" thread [Re: YTownBrownsFan]
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Originally Posted By: YTownBrownsFan
I think we got a decent return for Kluber.


The only way this is a decent return for Kluber is if his arm is falling off.

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#1708534 - 12/18/19 07:28 PM Re: MLB "Hot Stove League" thread [Re: cfrs15]
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The Plain Dealer's Indians beat writer, Paul Hoynes, is usually pretty friendly to the front office, and even he says its a salary dump.

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#1708911 - 12/20/19 09:07 AM Re: MLB "Hot Stove League" thread [Re: Dave]
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I want someone to ask this Dolan guy why he thinks fans should show up to the ball park. To me he's an embarrassment and one of the worst owners in the majors. Guy is a joke. Are we keeping anybody? Getting a discount LaPorta back in return again? Prospects? Psssshhhhh.
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#1708914 - 12/20/19 09:38 AM Re: MLB "Hot Stove League" thread [Re: Dave]
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REDS interested in Lindor.



By Mark Feinsand @feinsand
December 19, 2019

A new entrant has emerged as a potential suitor for Francisco Lindor.

The Reds have been engaged with the Indians in talks about the superstar shortstop, according to a source, thrusting Cincinnati into a mix that reportedly includes the Dodgers and Padres, among other clubs. The clubs have not confirmed the talks.

• Six not-so-crazy Lindor trade proposals

It’s unclear whether the talks have gained any traction, though the fact that the Reds are showing interest is yet another sign that the club is serious about contending in a wide-open National League Central.

Cincinnati has been aggressive on the trade front during the past year, acquiring Yasiel Puig and Trevor Bauer in a pair of notable deals. The Reds have already made one big move this winter, signing Mike Moustakas to a four-year, $64 million deal to play second base. Wade Miley was signed on Wednesday to fill out the rotation, but a big bat remains on the Reds’ offseason shopping list. Lindor would certainly fit that category.

Reds general manager Nick Krall, speaking Wednesday as the club introduced Miley, was asked about the pursuit of a bat.

“Whether it’s the trade market or the free-agent market, we’ll do whatever we can to keep improving this club,” Krall said.

“You’ve got to have teams that are willing to trade players. I think it’s up to those teams. We’ve had talks in the trade market, and we’ve also had them in the free-agent market.”

Krall also said that even after signing Moustakas and Miley for a combined $79 million, the Reds have enough payroll flexibility to make more moves.

The Reds have a number of appealing young players who could be included in a trade package (Nick Senzel, Jonathan India, Hunter Greene and Nick Lodolo), and they have a recent history of dealing with Cleveland, having completed the three-way deal last July that landed Bauer in Cincinnati.

Cleveland traded Corey Kluber to Texas last week, clearing about $17 million from the 2020 payroll. Cots’ Baseball Contracts estimates that Lindor will earn $17 million next season, his second of three arbitration-eligible years. He’s under club control through 2021, after which he’s expected to command a mammoth deal that could easily surpass the $300 million mark.

To move their franchise player, the Indians will surely need to be overwhelmed by an offer for Lindor. Whether the Reds are prepared to make such an offer remains to be seen.

Mark Feinsand, an executive reporter, originally joined MLB.com as a reporter in 2001. Mark Sheldon contributed to this report.

https://www.mlb.com/reds/news/francisco-lindor-eyed-by-reds-in-trade-talks
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#1708930 - 12/20/19 10:32 AM Re: MLB "Hot Stove League" thread [Re: Dave]
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Quote:
I want someone to ask this Dolan guy why he thinks fans should show up to the ball park.


Maybe they should show up because the team has been contenders for 15 out of the last 25 seasons, won 10 AL Central titles, made 11 playoff appearances, won 90+ games 10 times, won 100 or more games twice, won 3 ALCS's, and made 3 WS appearances. As opposed to certain other Cleveland teams who never fail to fail.

I get the bitterness about watching our top players leave, whether through free agency or trades, but the owners can only be faulted so much for trying to maintain a responsible business model in a sport that doesn't have a salary cap to level the playing field. Fans who wish the Dolans would sell should be careful what they wish for, because if some mega-billions individual buys the Indians and sees 2-3 years of attendance in the bottom 1/3 of the league, we might see the team moved to Vegas, Charlotte, Nashville, or elsewhere.

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#1708934 - 12/20/19 10:51 AM Re: MLB "Hot Stove League" thread [Re: Dave]
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Is attendance really in the bottom 1/3 ?

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#1708937 - 12/20/19 10:59 AM Re: MLB "Hot Stove League" thread [Re: waterdawg]
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Last year we won 93 games, and attendance was 1.7 million, good (or bad) for 21st in MLB.
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#1708938 - 12/20/19 11:00 AM Re: MLB "Hot Stove League" thread [Re: waterdawg]
Dave Online   content

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Originally Posted By: waterdawg
Is attendance really in the bottom 1/3 ?


#21 out of 30 teams.

http://www.espn.com/mlb/attendance

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#1708997 - 12/20/19 01:36 PM Re: MLB "Hot Stove League" thread [Re: Dave]
tastybrownies Offline

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Originally Posted By: Dave
Quote:
I want someone to ask this Dolan guy why he thinks fans should show up to the ball park.


Maybe they should show up because the team has been contenders for 15 out of the last 25 seasons, won 10 AL Central titles, made 11 playoff appearances, won 90+ games 10 times, won 100 or more games twice, won 3 ALCS's, and made 3 WS appearances. As opposed to certain other Cleveland teams who never fail to fail.

I get the bitterness about watching our top players leave, whether through free agency or trades, but the owners can only be faulted so much for trying to maintain a responsible business model in a sport that doesn't have a salary cap to level the playing field. Fans who wish the Dolans would sell should be careful what they wish for, because if some mega-billions individual buys the Indians and sees 2-3 years of attendance in the bottom 1/3 of the league, we might see the team moved to Vegas, Charlotte, Nashville, or elsewhere.


Everything you just said is nice but where's our world series? That's the ultimate goal. We can't settle for just good enough, don't have time for that.

When you trade away proven players that is just about the dumbest thing you can do. It puts you further away from winning or even getting to the series.


Edited by tastybrownies (12/20/19 01:45 PM)
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#1709047 - 12/20/19 04:30 PM Re: MLB "Hot Stove League" thread [Re: Dave]
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Thanks guys ! 21 out of 30 ain't great .. Use to go all the time when I live in Cleveland .. But then again I grew up playing ball and a way different America.

I have been amazed at how the Tribe turns out Young dynamite pitchers either trough draft or trade .. No Cap has always hurt the game ..

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#1709057 - 12/20/19 05:17 PM Re: MLB "Hot Stove League" thread [Re: waterdawg]
Dave Online   content

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Use to go all the time when I lived in Cleveland .. But then again I grew up playing ball and a way different America.


Same here. My wife and I used to go to 25 or so games per year back at the old stadium in the 80's and early 90's. Section 22, Upper Reserved, tip the beer guy so he comes back, LOL.

I also grew up playing baseball all summer. Mornings we'd bike up to Navy Park on Ridge Rd for our league games. Off days we'd take off looking for pickup games at either Brookside Park next to the Zoo, Edgewater Park down by the lake, Gunning Park on the far west side, or one of the many school playgrounds on the west side of Cleveland. Nowadays, I drive by beautifully manicured ball fields in the west suburb I live in, and they are usually either empty or they're using the outfields for soccer practice. A different America for sure.

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