DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Wiil the Browns make a Bold Move?

A couple of hot items around the NFL makes me wonder if the Browns will try to make a super bold move.

Diggs being traded for a 1st round pick and the Redskins losing out on the Cooper sweepstakes even though they offered more money.

Could the Browns be bold and pull the trigger?

Imagine if you will:

The Browns offer Washington: WR OBJ, LB Vernon, 2020 3rd round pick, 2021 2nd round pick and 2021 6th round pick.

Washington sends: 2020 1st round pick (#2 overall), LT Trent Williams, and a 2020 7th round pick.

This is actually a better deal than the MIN-BUF trade involving Diggs.

With the adding of Hooper, the Browns WR/TE's have a lot of mouths to feed and I don't believe OBJ will be a team player with that set-up. In fact, I believe he'll make 2019 look like a skip in the park compared to the shenanigans he'll pull next year. I also don't believe he's been the type of leader this team needs in the locker room. In any case, the Browns use the number 2 pick overall to draft Young from Ohio State to anchor the side opposite Garrett. This would be a huge upgrade over Vernon and much cheaper. At #10, the Browns don't have to draft that LT but still could and not be forced to play him right away. Or they could wait until a later pick and have their choice of WR's to replace OBJ at # 10 with CeeDee Lamb or Jerry Jeudy being available. That makes getting a LT in the 2nd round with Ezra Cleveland available for the taking to eventually replace Trent Williams.

The Browns still need another WR and I'd sure like to see them resign Perriman who I think was a mistake to let go in the first place. Trading OBJ and Vernon for Williams, Young, and a rookie WR will be an upgrade to both sides of the ball.

Will the Browns pull the trigger? Probably not but it's a deal that could be had if they wanted.

I think we already made two bold moves: filling two huge holes with two good players ... we “won” the day yesterday.

I’m content until we draft an OT and then fill in defensive gaps.

The only things I can see happening before the draft: SIgning a mid-level safety and re-signing Schobert

I agree the Browns made some good moves yesterday. However, I don't believe it's rumor that the browns are silently shopping OBJ. I'm sure they are thinking of cutting ties with Vernon. If both are actually true then you have to consider what they get in return and from who. My thought was Washington is the most likely partner but I wouldn't count out the Raiders.

I think there's a 50/50 shot the Browns move OBJ and a 90% chance Vernon gets traded or cut. I just think it's forward thinking to think about what we can get for the guys in question.

As far as signing Schobert, I think the longer they wait the less chance he'll resign. I think he's already pissed the Browns have shown no commitment to him. Waiting him out for a lower contract is throwing gas on the fire. Whether anyone likes it or not, for the owners its a business. For the players it gets personnel and with each passing day Schobert is getting a little more pissed. Remember, the same thing happened with Schwartz where he took less money just to get away from the Browns.

I think Vernon will be cut, or restructured, or whatever ... to me that wouldn’t be very bold.

I’d consider trading OBJ, trading Baker, Landry, etc as bold

To be fair, we have more than defensive gaps to fill. We have entire rooms to fill. We cannot sit on our laurels right now (if we have any to begin with). We simply are not able to rely on 2nd and 3rd round picks to man our LB and Safety corps. We need vets there.

They ain't shopping OBJ, Vernon is wanted and they are trying to work out a deal, Schobert has got offers yet.
The three moves they made are good ones. Excellent backup QB who knows the system and has won many games in it. Conklin is a beast and fairly young. Hooper was the best TE in the class. The roster is coming together as far as offense is concerned, the defense is another story.

The defense is currently downright atrocious.

I can't believe I hear people saying they'd trade Vernon. The defense has a stud DE and maybe, and I stress maybe, some up and coming corners.

That's it folks. It is downright putrid. And now Joe is gone.

I don't think people are taking a realistic stock of how bad this D currently is.

I wouldn't trade/release Vernon. He's a very good player.

I don't get the move to let Joe walk, but we have some other pieces besides the ones you mentioned. Richardson is a very good DT. Ogunjobi can penetrate and make plays. Mitchell is another very good corner. Wilson has a lot of potential. I think he will develop.

I say keep Vernon. That will leave us having to get 2 safeties and another LBer.

We might want to add a run-stuffing DT to be part of the rotation.

I hope we keep Vernon also, a healthy Vernon is worth the money ...

I agree. I think the Browns need to add to the DT rotation and fix the safety and linebacker positions. Keep Vernon and maybe look to draft his replacement next year.

that being said. The original posters trade scenario, while I don't think all of those moving parts would come together, would be an interesting one. i just don't remember trades such as this actually happening.

I do not want to even contemplate trading OBJ, and I want no part of Trent Williams, at all. So, for me, that trade is utterly TERRIBLE.

That said, I would not be surprised in the least if this FO made a big move... but they won't make one just for the sake of making one. It has to make eminent sense from the complete perspective of building the team.

Why would Washington do this trade?

Just announced that Schobert will sign with the Jags so he is gone. The part about not seeing a trade like I proposed better take a good look at the Buffalo/Minnesota deal yesterday. Also, you miss the whole purpose of the trade and that's to move up and get Young from Ohio State. Getting Trent Williams is a bonus and there's no need to keep Vernon and his high salary if we could get Young.

Browns need to go get S Malcolm Jenkins. He was just released by the Eagles. Still a pretty darn good player. Playoffs experience and a Super Bowl ring. Would provide leadership for the defense, which we do not have now, nor we have had in years...

Washington will do this trade for aa couple of reasons. 1st, they went all in to get Cooper from Dallas. Even though they offered more money, Cooper resigned with Dallas. If they were willing to pay 100 plus million for Cooper - they must feel they have a big need or marque player so OBJ could fill that need for them. Also, if Diggs is worth the number of picks the Bills gave to Minnesota for him - OBJ should pull at least that much value. The Skins are asking for a 2nd for Trent Williams but most likely won't get more than a 3rd. Throwing him into the deal to solve our LT woes for a year or two maybe is a smart move for Washington since he's not going to play IMHO. Adding Vernon to the mix helps keep the other draft picks floated in the deal much lower. Bottom line, the Skins get 2 proven starters of need plus picks. The Browns get the other DE that would give them the best duo in football at a discount rookie deal while unloading two major cap contracts to free up more money to look at other FA's.

I think you are overvaluing Olivier Vernon and undervaluing the #2 pick (from Washington's perspective).

We just saw Calais Campbell get traded for a fifth round pick. He is a much better player than Vernon.

To move from pick #8 to pick #2 in 2016 the Eagles gave up their first round pick that year, a third round pick, a fourth round pick, a first round pick in the 2017 draft, and a second round pick in the 2018 draft. Washington would be getting substantially less than that.

You may be right. However, Washington is also getting OBJ. If Diggs is worth a 1st round pick than OBJ is worthy of a higher 1st round pick. Add in the other picks and Vernon then it's actually a better deal than what BUF/MIN made and their trade is being talked about as "A" for each team.

OBJ
Olivier Vernon
3rd Round Pick
2nd Round Pick
6th Round Pick

2nd Overall Pick
Trent Williams
7th Round pick

You are basically saying that OBJ and Oliver Vernon are worth about three first round picks.

Well, I hope that we find some LB and S pretty quick, or our defense is going to really suck.

Math is hard.

Trade OBJ and our number 10 for Washington’s number two and second round pick and Trent

Trading OBJ would be asinine.

Probably so. We are moving to a 2 WR set, and we have 2 good ones. It would be hard to replace him.

Lets just stick with our 2 LSU Tigers and see how that goes.

We just fixed one slot on the OL with Conklin, maybe two. Hubbard played pretty well at guard for the Steelers. I think we slide him to guard. Now, four out of five slots fixed.

We might have the dynamic O we thought we were going to get last year.

Now we just need to play the games and hope our guys aren't gaining another year of age sitting at home riding out the storm.

If the Browns do indeed move to a 2 WR set and run 60% of the time then I predict a 6-10 record for 2020. For the life of me, I cannot understand why an organization would draft a QB from a college spread offense or run and shoot and then try to change that player into a standard NFL QB.

You would think that watching film from 2018 compared to 2019 might give you a clue. You would think that watching KCC and what they've done with Mahomes might give you a clue. You would think that playing BAL twice a year and watching how they put the league MVP into familiar situations would give you a clue. Instead, the Browns hire a coach that's run oriented who loves playing 2 TE's and looking at 2 WR sets. Especially concerning is the best of those 2 WR's (at least according to last years stats) is a slot WR. So not only are you changing your QB's skill set, you are changing your best WR's comfort zone.

Keep in mind that Hooper excelled in Atlanta working out of 3-WR sets. He will be far less productive working out of a 2-WR set. Of course, I know the comment will be that we will play some 3-WR sets. I'm sure we will and as usual, the Browns will be advertising their plays. Wait, every 3rd down we'll run out the 3rd WR much like we did with Duke Johnson - HEY DEFENSE - IT'S A PASS! Wait, 3rd and 2 and in comes both TE's and our new FB - HEY DEFENSE IT'S A RUN.

Bottom line, if they try to change Baker's skill set by making him a pocket passer with less weapons - HE WILL HAVE A HORRIBLE YEAR!

Actually Atlanta used a lot of two and even three TE groupings.

Both of our TEs' can line up wide, moving Juice to the slot.

I think that you are speculating way too much here.

It's that time of year. Let him speculate and get it out of his system.

It could go well. It could go poorly. It will definitely land somewhere between those two. We will see (hopefully as scheduled).

I think it is way too early to speculate on the Browns only running 2 WR sets most of the time.

I tried pointing this out before, but the Vikings were pretty much forced into running 2 WR sets a lot because their receivers outside of the top two were freaking awful. Additionally, Theilan missed multiple games and I think Diggs missed some time, too. Not sure about the latter part of that.

They also had two guys at TE who were high draft choices in Rudloph and Irv Smith. You don't let those guys sit on the bench.

Furthermore, Rudolph's catches decreased significantly.

I am not making ANY predictions on what sets we will run the most, but it's pure speculation that we are mainly going to run one or the other.

It reminds me of a few years ago when a poster claimed the Browns would barely use 3 LBers because Gregg Williams was coming over and that is what he did w/the Rams. Well, I won't embarrass the poster and mention his name or provide a link, but the Browns led the league in using 3 LBers the next year.

Gotta wait and see....

Good stuff there.



Aaaaaaannd then...complete BS again...aka no one cares.