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#1849296 - 02/21/21 02:58 PM Linebackers
Steubenvillian Offline
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I am starting this thread because I keep hearing from many how the LB position is devalued today in the league. IMO, this is nonsense. Look at guys like Devin White, he is an impactful player. He is a threat to a running game, and is a threat to a QB dropping back.

These running QBs which are taking over the league have to be neutralized, and I believe a fast strong tackling LB is the right medicine. I understand about the need for coverage skills, but in my eyes, a fast linebacker is what is needed to stop these QBs from scrambling and coverting third downs. Teams like the Steelers, and yes I know a 3-4 LB is a different animal, have always had playmakers at LB, and their defenses are always rated high.

I know Woods likes the three safety lineup, but I still believe if you have that thumper with speed playing the middle, it is a game changer.

Any thoughts?

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#1849298 - 02/21/21 03:37 PM Re: Linebackers [Re: Steubenvillian]
Bull_Dawg Offline
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If Micah Parsons falls (close) to 26, sure. Otherwise I'd rather roll with the young guys we've got at LB. Maybe take a flier on a Browning or Hilliard type as a developmental prospect, but they'll probably go higher than I would take them.

The Devin White type talents at LB generally go top 10. If it's not one of those guys, I wouldn't draft them early. I'm pretty sure this FO wants as many round 1 and 2 picks as possible, so I don't see them trading up for a LB. Maybe if it's only moving up a little bit and they can do it with late day 2 or day 3 picks.

I want to see what Takitaki, Wilson, and Phillips can do with another year in the system, hopefully better health, and with a more normal ability to practice post-COVID.

I'm not saying don't add to the room. But, I'm not sure the value lines up with where we're picking this year. Expecting us to draft a new starting LB might be setting yourself up for disappointment.
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#1849299 - 02/21/21 03:41 PM Re: Linebackers [Re: Steubenvillian]
THROW LONG Offline

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It doesn't really matter, how you or I feel about the linebackers, they will play how they play and the team will use them how they use them,
But,
I feel there are 2 things the team can do, 2 ways they can approach the linebackers, as an organization, 2 philosophies, (maybe more, but I'm thinking of two)

1. They can get good linebackers, singularly starters, who they place a ton of investment into each individual in acquiring the best, and paying large contracts,
and in doing option 1, they can avoid continualy trying to replace bad options because they'll have quality players,
but they won't be able to rotate (yaknow), 8 or 9 guys in, because going after the quality players means they'll only have enough resources to get a couple, high profile guys, and because of their quality, the players will use up a bunch of the teams capital.

Then there is option #2, The team can try and get a bunch of marginaly experienced prospects who might develop, and hopefully high energy guys, with a lot to learn, and continually try and build on a pile of contributors, who can interchange into a game as often as the 3, or 4 lines on a hockey team, and none of them really takes hold of a position, because none of them really are top notch enough, or talented enough, to be a bigtime NFL Game factor, and their biggest hope is to have an impact through
simple fresh legs, and play that resembles wild abandon because of inexperience.

Now.
Depending on the year, or past years, if we want to look at the Browns,
You'all can make up your own minds of which way you think the Browns appear to be using one of these philosophies or the other,

The important thing, (I think), is, if they try to combine the two philosophies, It requires a Giant sucking vacuum of capital from the team, that instantly becomes a drain on, ( a needless drain on), the capital spent on other positions
and a major unnecessary Obstacle to team success, and a Self Inflicted Obstacle to the teams success,

At least until some time, the League Rules changed somehow to make a situation, where the importance of the linebacker position's play, were given much greater weight into the outcome of games, than currently exists.
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#1849300 - 02/21/21 03:43 PM Re: Linebackers [Re: Steubenvillian]
PastorMarc Offline

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I might trade up as high as 10 spots for Micah Parsons but I think some of the other LB's will fall to us ...
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#1849301 - 02/21/21 03:49 PM Re: Linebackers [Re: Bull_Dawg]
THROW LONG Offline

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I think Takitaki and Wilson may have shown their cards,

I want to see what Phillips can do with another year because I don't think there has been a large enough sample.
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#1849304 - 02/21/21 04:18 PM Re: Linebackers [Re: Steubenvillian]
cfrs15 Offline

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The position is devalued because there aren’t very many players like Devin White.

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#1849305 - 02/21/21 04:29 PM Re: Linebackers [Re: Steubenvillian]
Ballpeen Offline

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The problem is thumpers with speed are safeties.
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#1849309 - 02/21/21 05:33 PM Re: Linebackers [Re: Bull_Dawg]
Steubenvillian Offline
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I don't think there is a Devin White type of guy available, but a fast big hitter is what I mean. White is a special guy.

I think Phillips is going to rise to the top of our LB room. He was a tackling machine in college. I believe his injury slowed his development. Taki, I am up in the air about. He flashes, and it makes me wonder if he will get better, or if this is what he is.

Wilson showed promise, but this year he was bad. Poor tackling especially. Maybe his injury stunted his growth a little.

I could live with them, if they become a little more consistent. But if they see a guy and can get him, I would make the move. Not in the first round though.

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#1849310 - 02/21/21 05:35 PM Re: Linebackers [Re: Ballpeen]
Steubenvillian Offline
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Originally Posted By: Ballpeen
The problem is thumpers with speed are safeties.


Good point. Maybe that's why Woods likes three on the field.

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#1849317 - 02/21/21 06:57 PM Re: Linebackers [Re: Steubenvillian]
Dawgs4Life Online   content

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I like Zaven Collins ... a lot
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#1849404 - 02/22/21 01:05 PM Re: Linebackers [Re: Dawgs4Life]
waterdawg Offline

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He was my first pick .. Look at Jabril Cox ( LSU )

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#1849425 - 02/22/21 05:22 PM Re: Linebackers [Re: Dawgs4Life]
Ballpeen Offline

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Originally Posted By: Dawgs4Life
I like Zaven Collins ... a lot




I like him. I am just not sure a backer at 260 is going to cover all that much, but if we draft him, I won't be very upset.

I just don't think linebackers holds all that much priority with what this team wants.

But, that is just my opinion. I've been wrong before.
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#1849428 - 02/22/21 06:16 PM Re: Linebackers [Re: Ballpeen]
guard dawg Offline

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If the devaluing of the Linebacker position is accurate and, I say "if" although I'm inclined to believe it. We won't really know until we see what the team does this year as they focus on re-shaping the defense. If it's true then they must address the interior of the DL as well as the secondary. Putting opponents in third and long situations more routinely will necessitate run-stopping and getting off the field on third down is going to require pass pressure along with better coverage.
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#1849431 - 02/22/21 06:55 PM Re: Linebackers [Re: guard dawg]
Ballpeen Offline

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I agree. I think a top DT is more important to the team then a edge opposite Myles.
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#1849435 - 02/22/21 07:11 PM Re: Linebackers [Re: Ballpeen]
Dave Offline

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Agree that a penetrating, disruptive DT is instrumental to having a dominant pass rush. I was lucky enough to have seen Michael Dean Perry and before him, Jerry Sherk at their best, and they could be devastating to opposing offenses when they were loose in the backfield.

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#1849438 - 02/22/21 07:42 PM Re: Linebackers [Re: Steubenvillian]
PastorMarc Offline

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This kid would be my pick at #26 if we go DT ...

DAVIYON NIXON DT IOWA
Height: 6-3. Weight: 305.
Projected 40 Time: 5.2.
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#1849459 - 02/22/21 09:26 PM Re: Linebackers [Re: PastorMarc]
guard dawg Offline

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I like Nixon better than Barmore. My concern with him or Barmore is that they are mainly 1 gap penetrating linemen, thats fine for defending the pass but I think we need some stoutness that can anchor and stuff the middle of the line. I'm not looking for a pure nose but somebody who will at least demand a double team from time to time. I've said it in other threads, Jay Tufele is a 1 Tech with 3 Tech athletic traits. He'd be the guy I'd target.

If we did take Nixon I'd want guys like Tedarell Slaton or Naquon Jones maybe as UDFA.
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#1849483 - 02/23/21 07:39 AM Re: Linebackers [Re: Dawgs4Life]
bonefish Offline

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Collins 40 time is listed as 4.8. His weight is 260 lbs.

That will not cut it.

I don't think he is the type player the Browns want at linebacker.

Koramoah weight is listed at 216. He will probably play at a little more 225 lbs.
His 40 time will be around 4.5 or less.

Woods defense is based upon coverage. I don't think Collins fits.

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#1849498 - 02/23/21 09:22 AM Re: Linebackers [Re: bonefish]
Ballpeen Offline

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That sounds like the kind of backer Jim O'Neil would covet.
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#1849512 - 02/23/21 10:11 AM Re: Linebackers [Re: Dave]
waterdawg Offline

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Ah yes , Jerry and Walter .. What a dream.

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#1849515 - 02/23/21 10:18 AM Re: Linebackers [Re: Steubenvillian]
Hammer Offline
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Nick Bolton, JOK, or Moehrig with #26 for me.

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#1849522 - 02/23/21 10:47 AM Re: Linebackers [Re: Ballpeen]
dawglover05 Offline

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I was actually thinking of Mangini. He had some real plodders.
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#1849526 - 02/23/21 11:02 AM Re: Linebackers [Re: Steubenvillian]
RedBaron Offline

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Hahaha. Yes we did.

I bet Collins runs faster than David Veikune smile
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#1849528 - 02/23/21 11:09 AM Re: Linebackers [Re: Steubenvillian]
RedBaron Offline

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I'm not the biggest Nick Bolton fan. He plays fast and hits hard but he slides off a lot of tackles, too.

The only "LBer" I'd take in the 1st is probably JOK. Obviously Parsons will not be an option.

Heck, the only reason I like JOK is as a hybrid guy in this scheme. And even then we'd definitely have to get more versatile DB's in there to make it work. A moveable piece can't really move much if the other 10 guys are stuck doing "their job." All they end up doing is whatever the 11th job is.
Just an opinion, but I'm pretty sure that's why all these versatile, "'tweener" guys struggle early on. You can't just move one piece, you need at least two if you're going to shift around.
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#1849559 - 02/23/21 01:32 PM Re: Linebackers [Re: bonefish]
bonefish Offline

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Nothing official on his 40 time. I am reading now they expect him to run:
mid to late 4.7's.

If that is accurate I don't think we will draft him.

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#1849601 - 02/23/21 04:14 PM Re: Linebackers [Re: guard dawg]
clwb419 Offline

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Originally Posted By: guard dawg
I like Nixon better than Barmore. My concern with him or Barmore is that they are mainly 1 gap penetrating linemen, thats fine for defending the pass but I think we need some stoutness that can anchor and stuff the middle of the line. I'm not looking for a pure nose but somebody who will at least demand a double team from time to time. I've said it in other threads, Jay Tufele is a 1 Tech with 3 Tech athletic traits. He'd be the guy I'd target.

If we did take Nixon I'd want guys like Tedarell Slaton or Naquon Jones maybe as UDFA.


The McNeill kid from NC State is intriguing as heck to me. An excellent run stuffing DT with decent to good pass rush skills.

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#1849630 - 02/23/21 08:47 PM Re: Linebackers [Re: clwb419]
guard dawg Offline

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Thanks for bringing up Alim McNeil. I was aware of him but I became infatuated with Tufele. I looked at some clips of him again over the last day or two. He does line up as a 0 or 1 technique quite a bit. NC State plays 3 and 4 man fronts in the plays I saw. He is an explosive player. He has natural leverage at 6'2", 320 or so. He moves very suddenly for a guy his size. I don't know his arm length but he seems to get good extension and he can control linemen without allowing them to get into his body. He seems to make plays against the run and pass. I think he'll be available in round 2. He should be in consideration for the team depending on how the draft falls.
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