I am starting this thread because I keep hearing from many how the LB position is devalued today in the league. IMO, this is nonsense. Look at guys like Devin White, he is an impactful player. He is a threat to a running game, and is a threat to a QB dropping back.
These running QBs which are taking over the league have to be neutralized, and I believe a fast strong tackling LB is the right medicine. I understand about the need for coverage skills, but in my eyes, a fast linebacker is what is needed to stop these QBs from scrambling and coverting third downs. Teams like the Steelers, and yes I know a 3-4 LB is a different animal, have always had playmakers at LB, and their defenses are always rated high.
I know Woods likes the three safety lineup, but I still believe if you have that thumper with speed playing the middle, it is a game changer.
If Micah Parsons falls (close) to 26, sure. Otherwise I'd rather roll with the young guys we've got at LB. Maybe take a flier on a Browning or Hilliard type as a developmental prospect, but they'll probably go higher than I would take them.
The Devin White type talents at LB generally go top 10. If it's not one of those guys, I wouldn't draft them early. I'm pretty sure this FO wants as many round 1 and 2 picks as possible, so I don't see them trading up for a LB. Maybe if it's only moving up a little bit and they can do it with late day 2 or day 3 picks.
I want to see what Takitaki, Wilson, and Phillips can do with another year in the system, hopefully better health, and with a more normal ability to practice post-COVID.
I'm not saying don't add to the room. But, I'm not sure the value lines up with where we're picking this year. Expecting us to draft a new starting LB might be setting yourself up for disappointment.
You mess with the "Bull," you get the horns. Fiercely Independent.
It doesn't really matter, how you or I feel about the linebackers, they will play how they play and the team will use them how they use them, But, I feel there are 2 things the team can do, 2 ways they can approach the linebackers, as an organization, 2 philosophies, (maybe more, but I'm thinking of two)
1. They can get good linebackers, singularly starters, who they place a ton of investment into each individual in acquiring the best, and paying large contracts, and in doing option 1, they can avoid continualy trying to replace bad options because they'll have quality players, but they won't be able to rotate (yaknow), 8 or 9 guys in, because going after the quality players means they'll only have enough resources to get a couple, high profile guys, and because of their quality, the players will use up a bunch of the teams capital.
Then there is option #2, The team can try and get a bunch of marginaly experienced prospects who might develop, and hopefully high energy guys, with a lot to learn, and continually try and build on a pile of contributors, who can interchange into a game as often as the 3, or 4 lines on a hockey team, and none of them really takes hold of a position, because none of them really are top notch enough, or talented enough, to be a bigtime NFL Game factor, and their biggest hope is to have an impact through simple fresh legs, and play that resembles wild abandon because of inexperience.
Now. Depending on the year, or past years, if we want to look at the Browns, You'all can make up your own minds of which way you think the Browns appear to be using one of these philosophies or the other,
The important thing, (I think), is, if they try to combine the two philosophies, It requires a Giant sucking vacuum of capital from the team, that instantly becomes a drain on, ( a needless drain on), the capital spent on other positions and a major unnecessary Obstacle to team success, and a Self Inflicted Obstacle to the teams success,
At least until some time, the League Rules changed somehow to make a situation, where the importance of the linebacker position's play, were given much greater weight into the outcome of games, than currently exists.
Can Deshaun Watson play better for the Browns, than Baker Mayfield would have? ... Now the Games count.
I might trade up as high as 10 spots for Micah Parsons but I think some of the other LB's will fall to us ...
John 3:16 Jesus said "For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life."
I don't think there is a Devin White type of guy available, but a fast big hitter is what I mean. White is a special guy.
I think Phillips is going to rise to the top of our LB room. He was a tackling machine in college. I believe his injury slowed his development. Taki, I am up in the air about. He flashes, and it makes me wonder if he will get better, or if this is what he is.
Wilson showed promise, but this year he was bad. Poor tackling especially. Maybe his injury stunted his growth a little.
I could live with them, if they become a little more consistent. But if they see a guy and can get him, I would make the move. Not in the first round though.
"First down inside the 10. A score here will put us in the Super Bowl. Cooper is far to the left as Njoku settles into the slot. Moore is flanked out wide to the right. Chubb and Ford are split in the backfield as Watson takes the snap ... Here we go."
If the devaluing of the Linebacker position is accurate and, I say "if" although I'm inclined to believe it. We won't really know until we see what the team does this year as they focus on re-shaping the defense. If it's true then they must address the interior of the DL as well as the secondary. Putting opponents in third and long situations more routinely will necessitate run-stopping and getting off the field on third down is going to require pass pressure along with better coverage.
Agree that a penetrating, disruptive DT is instrumental to having a dominant pass rush. I was lucky enough to have seen Michael Dean Perry and before him, Jerry Sherk at their best, and they could be devastating to opposing offenses when they were loose in the backfield.
John 3:16 Jesus said "For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life."
I like Nixon better than Barmore. My concern with him or Barmore is that they are mainly 1 gap penetrating linemen, thats fine for defending the pass but I think we need some stoutness that can anchor and stuff the middle of the line. I'm not looking for a pure nose but somebody who will at least demand a double team from time to time. I've said it in other threads, Jay Tufele is a 1 Tech with 3 Tech athletic traits. He'd be the guy I'd target.
If we did take Nixon I'd want guys like Tedarell Slaton or Naquon Jones maybe as UDFA.
I'm not the biggest Nick Bolton fan. He plays fast and hits hard but he slides off a lot of tackles, too.
The only "LBer" I'd take in the 1st is probably JOK. Obviously Parsons will not be an option.
Heck, the only reason I like JOK is as a hybrid guy in this scheme. And even then we'd definitely have to get more versatile DB's in there to make it work. A moveable piece can't really move much if the other 10 guys are stuck doing "their job." All they end up doing is whatever the 11th job is. Just an opinion, but I'm pretty sure that's why all these versatile, "'tweener" guys struggle early on. You can't just move one piece, you need at least two if you're going to shift around.
People ask me what I do in spring when there's no football. I'll tell you what I do. I stare out the window and wait for fall
I like Nixon better than Barmore. My concern with him or Barmore is that they are mainly 1 gap penetrating linemen, thats fine for defending the pass but I think we need some stoutness that can anchor and stuff the middle of the line. I'm not looking for a pure nose but somebody who will at least demand a double team from time to time. I've said it in other threads, Jay Tufele is a 1 Tech with 3 Tech athletic traits. He'd be the guy I'd target.
If we did take Nixon I'd want guys like Tedarell Slaton or Naquon Jones maybe as UDFA.
The McNeill kid from NC State is intriguing as heck to me. An excellent run stuffing DT with decent to good pass rush skills.
Thanks for bringing up Alim McNeil. I was aware of him but I became infatuated with Tufele. I looked at some clips of him again over the last day or two. He does line up as a 0 or 1 technique quite a bit. NC State plays 3 and 4 man fronts in the plays I saw. He is an explosive player. He has natural leverage at 6'2", 320 or so. He moves very suddenly for a guy his size. I don't know his arm length but he seems to get good extension and he can control linemen without allowing them to get into his body. He seems to make plays against the run and pass. I think he'll be available in round 2. He should be in consideration for the team depending on how the draft falls.
Thanks for bringing up Alim McNeil. I was aware of him but I became infatuated with Tufele. I looked at some clips of him again over the last day or two. He does line up as a 0 or 1 technique quite a bit. NC State plays 3 and 4 man fronts in the plays I saw. He is an explosive player. He has natural leverage at 6'2", 320 or so. He moves very suddenly for a guy his size. I don't know his arm length but he seems to get good extension and he can control linemen without allowing them to get into his body. He seems to make plays against the run and pass. I think he'll be available in round 2. He should be in consideration for the team depending on how the draft falls.
Hope he is. I was one of the first on the board to mention Zaven Collins, but have kind of moved away from the thought of us drafting LB in round 1. If we sign Watt or another DE (Okwara is intriguing to me) in FA, I think Collins, Bolton, or Owusu-Koramoah are options at 26. Though if we don't, I imagine we go DL in round 1 and 2 - I can see us taking Oweh, Tryon, or maybe Phillips at 26.
I know we need DBs, but I just don't see us taking either S or CB in round one (maybe, if Moehrig falls). Delpit and Harrison are presumably starters with Redwine as a backup FS. Unless there's a clear upgrade, I'd be surprised. At CB, unless Greedy is expected to be out longer, I'd be surprised if we go CB in 1.
Plus we need a starting caliber DE and with Ogunjobi likely hitting the market, we'll need a starting caliber DT.
Great athlete, great playmaking... but he's little. His size is more of a box safety in the NFL.
I know nothing about any of these players. I just read a big bird article and this guy was ranked 7th. I think it’s safe to say we have no shot at him.