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Electric cars- everyone has an opinion- I have several- observation- Norway operators had few problems recharging their EVs- keys, preheat battery and don't let charge run down to far----Chicago idiots failed to adhere to requirements- ie - operator error. I hate the power and torque of the electric cars- operator errors causing crashes due to too much speed and quickly. Un-American idea- governors to control performance. All the "advancements" each company is claiming on battery recharging times, charge length, etc., etc., sure seems EVs are here to stay.

Plus- talks with tractor trailer drivers ALL love the quiet and performance of EV trucks--environmentally, trucks should be supplemented by government , JMHO.

REpTARDS don’t think anything through. They like unintended consequences because it gives them a reason to lose and blame dems. It doesn’t matter what the hell you do for GOPers, they’ll find a bone to pick somewhere. Biden could pump sunshine and wish granting unicorns into their homes and they would complain about the light, the heat, the horns, and the droppings. You could give Trump a hundred billion and he would be upset it wasn’t two hundred billion. There is no satisfying them because all they understand now is finding the grievance.

The party of “hell no” developed by “yes we can”

why don't electric cars have solar panel roofs, trunks, and hoods?

Because it's new... and you need Dawgs like me to bring you up to speed.
It's already happening. Baby steps, but its no joke.



Thin-Film Solar Car Cover Can Recharge Your Electric Car While It’s Parked

A French company has developed a thin-film solar cell that uses semi conductor compounds based on organic polymers printed on flexible films. The practical upshot of this is that it can be mounted on curved surfaces, something traditional solar panels cannot do.

Consequently, they have created a retractable car cover incorporating ultra-thin photovoltaic cells that can be unrolled and rolled back thousands of times with no damage or loss in performance that can be used to partly recharge a car’s battery. According to Nantes-based Armor, the new solar cell technology, called ASCA, weighs only about 450 grams per square meter, about six times that of a similar sized piece of paper.

“We worked with two other French companies – ACPV, which was the sponsor of the project and Gazelle Tech, which is a startup that developed an electric car made out composite – to develop a solar car cover to produce energy when the car is parked,” Moïra Asses, marketing and business development manager at Armor, told Forbes.


The first prototype was unveiled at the Mondial Paris Motor Show in April of this year. The thin-film solar panels cover an area of 4 square meters and the cover itself is integrated into the body of the car, so at the flick of a switch it can be rolled out, retracted and safely stored.

The cells provide supplementary power to the vehicle’s battery and increase its range up to 15 kilometers (9.3 miles) a day based on the car being exposed to the sun for eight hours. The company has set a target of gaining 30 miles of range (48 km) per day within 3 years

“The goal was to increase the battery life and therefore increase the distance the car could travel using solar energy. For the first prototype, we plan to add 8,000 kilometers to the car during one year and we expect to reach a 11,000 kilometers by 2023,” Asses said.

n the UK, electric vehicles are now on average £107 cheaper a year to own than petrol cars, an analysis of lifetime running costs recently revealed, based on purchase price and ownership costs over 14 years. And a 2018 study from the University of Michigan's Transportation Research Institute found that electric vehicles cost less than half as much to operate as gas-powered cars.

Armor is currently working in connection with three international car manufacturers to develop the project. The idea has always been about integrating the cover with the vehicle, since this eliminates potential issues with compatibility, different connections and even theft.

“The idea was to have something automatic, so it's easy as you close your car with your key, you can press simply a button and deploy this protection and avoid having to do it manually every time you park,” Asses said.

Fitting solar panels to an electric car is not a new idea, but Armor says it is the first to fit them to a cover for a car rather than to the car itself. However, its ASCA thin-film products can be incorporated directly into the body of a car as well.

In areas that receive a lot of sun, from California to Qatar, this could significantly benefit the electric vehicle market, especially if the cover was designed to help keep the car cool as as added bonus.

Asses believes the concept could be available as an additional feature to electric vehicles in the future, but as the efficiency of photovoltaic technology constantly improves, solar panel arrays that could simply be rolled out might be able to power water pumps, provide electricity to encampments or even be used on satellites or space craft.





https://www.forbes.com/sites/scotts...ic-car-while-its-parked/?sh=1687881b6227

Don't get me wrong, I am not advocating against electric. I got in to this over the question of road taxes.

Gasoline isn't what deteriorates roads and bridges. Vehicles are what do that. The road doesn't care if it is a gasoline or electric vehicle. Every EV on the road is helping to deteriorate the roadways without contributing to their maintenance.

The impact may not be great at this point, but it will. As it stands the more people drive, the more in tax they are charged. Makes sense and it has worked. Unless we find a way to put a tax on the electricity used to power these vehicles we will probably have to simply institute a flat tax to something everybody pays, or will pay regardless of if they drive a vehicle or not.

Thanks Clem. I was going to answer SBD that it didn't make sense where we currently are when looking at the technology available and most likely the current cost levels. Also weight that against the fact that the amount of charge the car would receive from that would be miniscule in comparison. For instance, I charge mine with a 50 amp plug out in the garage. I can't imagine any current solar technology that would fit on an EV getting anywhere close to that.

That is totally unfair to someone who does not drive. If you want to be more fair, it would be based on mileage and vehicle weight.

Make all roads toll roads. You pay for what you use

j/c...

Keep the gas tax and raise it in direct proportion to the percentage of electric vehicles on the road. In other words, by the time time we have 50% electric vehicles, taxes on gas will have risen 100% (doubled). Seems to me you wouldn't lose a penny.


My point (and Rish's point in the other thread) is, there should be nothing to the page of arguments when the consumer is weighing the option to 'go electric'.

Silly registration fees that seem to punish the buyer (the person we need most in this 'revolution') are basically penny-wise and dollar stupid.


Think about it... Our government has been offering a $7500 tax credit for EVs

They're already giving away 28.5 years worth of 'gas tax' at the point of sale.


Change the tax credit to $5000 and give them a $200 gift card at the BMV every year they register the vehicle.

I like that.

When Cars first came around the government didn't do everything to push car sales and discourage horse sales. Just how many companies quit making horses back then? Yep not a single one. Now go try to buy a new america CAR than runs on gas. What choices are there? You want people to have a choice don't you? or are you fine with the government pushing yet another thing down our throat?

J/C The gas tax will go away when autos go zero emission.

Uh, companies don't make horses. In 2009 the government had the Cash For Clunkers program to support getting rid of older less fuel efficient cars. This isn't some new precedent. And the demand for draft horses went down by 90% by 1920. So I'm pretty sure people stopped "making" near as many of them.


Maybe you should send your complaints to American auto makers. If you feel your choices are being restricted talk to the people restricting them.

j/c...

Although somewhat biased (less than I actually expected) towards Tesla, bottom line is they lead the field with the only real competition evolving in China.

A look under the hood of strategy with a TON of food for thought.

Ford just reported a massive loss on every electric vehicle it sold

New York
CNN
—
Ford’s electric vehicle unit reported that losses soared in the first quarter to $1.3 billion, or $132,000 for each of the 10,000 vehicles it sold in the first three months of the year, helping to drag down earnings for the company overall.

Ford, like most automakers, has announced plans to shift from traditional gas-powered vehicles to EVs in coming years. But it is the only traditional automaker to break out results of its retail EV sales. And the results it reported Wednesday show another sign of the profit pressures on the EV business at Ford and other automakers.

The EV unit, which Ford calls Model e, sold 10,000 vehicles in the quarter, down 20% from the number it sold a year earlier. And its revenue plunged 84% to about $100 million, which Ford attributed mostly to price cuts for EVs across the industry. That resulted in the $1.3 billion loss before interest and taxes (EBIT), and the massive per-vehicle loss in the Model e unit.

The losses go far beyond the cost of building and selling those 10,000 cars, according to Ford. Instead the losses include hundreds of millions being spent on research and development of the next generation of EVs for Ford. Those investments are years away from paying off.

And that means this is not the end of the losses in the unit - Ford said it expects Model e will have EBIT losses of $5 billion for the full year.

The company said it is its “intention” to be have EV pricing cover the actual costs of building each EV, rather than covering all the research and development costs, within the next 12 months. But a price war among EVs for about a year and a half has made even that measure of profitability very difficult said Ford CFO John Lawler. He said while Ford has removed about $5,000 in cost on each Mustang Mach-E, “revenue is dropping faster than we can take out the cost.”

In 2023, Ford Model e reported a full-year EBIT loss of $4.7 billion on sales of 116,000 EVs, or an average of $40,525 per vehicle, just more than a third of the first quarter loss.

Model e doesn’t handle all of the company’s electric vehicle sales. Some are also sold in its Ford Pro unit, which handles fleet sales to businesses and government buyers. And Ford said it had strong demands for electric vehicle sales in that unit, including an order for 9,250 E-Transit vans from the US Postal Service, which are to be delivered through the end of this year, and an order for more than 1,000 of its F-150 Lightning pickups and Mustang Mach-E SUVs from Ecolab, a global sustainability company.

Despite the EV losses, Ford CEO Jim Farley said in a call with investors the company is making changes in its EV business, and that the company’s planned next generation of EVs will allow it to be profitable on that business in the near future.

Ford Pro, which primarily sells traditional internal combustion vehicles, was the primary profit driver for Ford in the quarter, posting EBIT of $3 billion, or more than double what it made a year ago, as revenue from the unit rose 36% to $18 billion. The number of vehicles sold by Ford Pro was up 21% to 409,000.

But Ford Blue, which handles sales of gasoline-powered cars to consumers, reported that sales fell 11% to 626,000, and revenue dropped 13% to $21 billion. That resulted in EBIT in those traditional sales falling by nearly two-thirds to $905 million.

Together Ford Blue and Ford Pro produced roughly the same level of profits as a year earlier, but the increased losses at the Model e unit meant that Ford’s overall net income fell 20% to $1.3 billion, while its adjusted earnings per share fell to 49 cents, down 21% from a year earlier, but slightly better than analyst forecasts of 44 cents a share.

Ford rival General Motors reported earlier this week that it remains on track to have its North American EV business turn profitable in the second half of this year, while Stellantis, which makes cars and trucks in North America under the Jeep, Ram, Dodge and Chrysler brands, said its European EV business was already profitable last year.

On Tuesday Tesla, the world’s largest EV maker, reported that its adjusted earnings plunged 48% in the first quarter as revenue fell 9%, after it reported the first year-over-year drop in sales since the pandemic.

https://www.cnn.com/2024/04/24/business/ford-earnings-ev-losses/index.html

Hyundai is doing well, though.

I wish I had an explanation as to why Tesla is hurting right now. I honestly don't know. Not all EV manufacturers are doom-and-gloom, though. Hyundai/Genesis have been killing it (they are a little earlier in their EV journey).

I'm not saying your overall point (if I understand it correctly, please correct me if I'm wrong) is wrong, I just think there's a little more nuance to it. EV's are being pushed on us hard right now. As much as I usually hate govt telling me what to do, I do understand why we want to move away from consuming gas the way we are.

TLDR, there aren't enough good options out there just yet. I was looking at a car purchase, and the only real options that appealed to me were the Tesla Model Y, Hyundai Ioniq, and Genesis GV70. GV70 was out of my price range, even if I went used. Tesla was the front-runner, but the interior turned me off. Ioniq 5 was good but trunk/back wasn't quite the size I was looking for.

Ford is getting killed right now because their Mach-e is very meh. I honestly don't know why someone would buy that over either a Tesla Model Y or the Hyundai.

And that's kinda my point. I think there needs to be a little more time to let the bigger automakers get their act together. Tesla is doing a superb job of driving prices down (look at what Hyundai has been doing in response). Both are responding positively to the tumultuous roll-out of the tax rebate and both are starting to cross the threshold to providing an affordable EV that the masses can buy (eg. not a clown car).

For me, an EV would've made a ton of sense (I would have charging set up at home and wouldn't need to rely on public chargers, I have a longer but consistent commute/mileage, family already has a gas car that we would use for road trips regardless). I didn't pull the trigger but I think if I could've waited maybe another year I would have.

And I think what you pointed out is crucial. It's pretty much the same in every sector of the market. If you put out a crappy product you pay the price. Those who put out a better product reap the rewards.

I was mostly just posting the article hoping for a solid post like yours lol. Not really trying to make a point with it.

Now that the two of you have responded, there's room for some discussion.

First -- sales are way below expectations across the board -- so while the points of a quality/desirable product hold true, they're not really answering the decline in consumer demand. This amid prices being slashed across the industry, in some cases dramatically. The Hyundai Ioniq, for example, is being leased at an unheard of rate of $239 per month. I'm not saying that's bad, just peeling back layers.

I think the big boys made some badly (maybe greedy?) calculations of continued exponential growth and invested too much for organic growth... at least too much as far as protecting the bottom line goes. I just wonder how that translates into begging the government for more tax breaks. I, as a taxpayer, an not much interested in funding their greed. That's just one angle.

This is most certainly true. The demand hasn't increased at the projected rate.


This however, while I'm not sure of your intent certainly seems inaccurate at best. Consumer demand has not declined. It actually increased in 2023. As you mentioned the increase in the demand has not met expectations, however the U.S. set a record in EV sales in 2023....

New vehicle sales rise in 2023, EV retail numbers set record

https://wdet.org/2023/12/26/new-vehicle-sales-rise-in-2023-ev-retail-numbers-set-record/


I think greed is the overwhelming factor with all corporations. At least one could describe it that way if they so choose to. Profit is the driving force. The bottom line is king. Some describe that as the way capitalism is supposed to work and some call it greed. Then some call it everything between the two.

It seems to me that no matter whether they were trying to produce EV's or internal combustion vehicles, the objective, as always seems to be the case, is predicting the market flow and what the demand will be from its consumers. And I certainly agree they missed the mark on that. And yes, I don't doubt they will be begging the government for tax credits to help make up for their mistake.

As with all newer technology I think this is little more than a fly in the ointment. As the technology advances the range in mileage on these vehicles will increase. We're already seeing that trend now. As more quick charging stations are made available it will be easy and more convenient to recharge these vehicles. I look for charging times to decrease as well. As we've seen with home computers, 4k TV's and every other technological advances, as time goes on the cost of production comes down. I don't think this will be any different. With that being said I also look for prices of EV's to line up with gas powered cars in short order.

For now I agree they've put themselves in a bind. The technology needs to improve before the demand will increase to the level they thought it would. And then they have to overcome those people who are simply stomping their feet and yelling who claim they'll never buy an EV no matter what.

Good post. I was in a bit of a hurry and my wording wasn't as it should been. YES, demand has increased. I expect it to continue to increase. It's these corps banking on continued exponential growth that is the problem. I just want it to be their problem and not ours.

There are gonna be bumps in the road, pun intended. It sometimes bothers me that I'm JAG and it seems like I have more common sense than the powers-that-be. Another unexpected hurdle (we're not there yet, but nobody really talks about it), is how drastically this will change vehicle flow on the secondary market. Now that we have this HUGE spike in sales, we're 4-5 years from a glut of vehicles on the market that need new batteries. Fields of dead Everready Bunnies lol. Yes, I'm being dramatic, but let's be honest here... I'll compare cost of replacement... would you buy a vehicle today for any price if you were told the engine and tranny would be dead within two years? That's about the equivalent price of a new battery.

Besides that, there are the issues of mining, disposal, etc... These things are issues when there is organic growth, they can become catastrophes when things are accelerated way beyond normal growth. Alas, I'm sure these will seem like small ripples in the pond twenty-five years from now. I just get tired of our politicians, corp leaders, ignoring the obvious and turning to the taxpayer with a blank look on their faces when things go awry.

All that gibberish aside, this is an exciting time during a complete paradigm shift that is for the good. I'm sure tech will outpace dumb decisions and we'll all be better off in the end.

Speaking as a Tesla owner, I think one of my qualms with Tesla is that the stock price, product and business model all seem to reflect Musk's very own personal dichotomy. Everything about Tesla is really great, or it sucks. Not much in between.

I have the Y and it's a cool car. Don't get me wrong. It's fast. Drives great and it's comfortable.

Musk, for the longest time has been preaching self drive and the advances. His one great marketing advantage over a lot of the other EVs and automobile companies. But, here we all are, waiting over and over again for him to be able to cash the checks his mouth keeps writing. The interior is very innovative, but some of the parts seem really cheap when you look at them closely, like seat belt buckles. The way the AC works is cool, but it also doesn't function very well in a dual zone.

The headlines surrounding Tesla also seem to follow suit, and I think that can affect consumers. It's either "Another huge advantage in self-drive!" or "The cybertruck can be used as a boat!" vs "Tesla on self-drive kills entire small town!" or "When asked about whether cybertruck can be used as a boat, Tesla engineer says Musk is FOS!"

The pendulum swings wide, both ways, with Tesla.

From my understanding those batteries last somewhere between 6-10 years with 8 years being the average. And while I know you save on other maintenance that is required with fossil fuel vehicles, I would have to factor in those savings along with the savings on fuel cost in order to do a breakdown of the actual cost between the two over that period of time. It's odd that people such as ourselves think about this while they seemingly don't. But then ulike the government we can't simply print money whenever we choose to. lol

Those batteries are now being recycled and more will be as time goes on so I'm not seeing that as some catastrophic issue some have been trying to make it out to be. This article explains the average battery life, other uses for the batteries after it loses a certain percentage of its power and how they will be recycled.....

What happens to old electric car batteries?

https://www.nationalgrid.com/storie.../what-happens-old-electric-car-batteries