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Cliff Asness, whose firm manages some $20 billion of assets, has written an open letter blasting President Obama for his attack on the hedge fund industry in the wake of the Chrysler bankruptcy.
As you'll recall, hedge funds, which hold approximately $1 billion in Chrysler bonds, refused the government's offer to take approximately thirty cents on the dollar. Obama accused hedge funds of holding out "for the prospect of an unjustified taxpayer-funded bailout."
These comments have enraged many in the industry but few have spoken out publicly. Asness, whose firm doesn't hold Chrysler bonds, says the industry is genuinely afraid in the face of Obama's power. Stating that he himself is "fearful writing this," Asness still pulls no punches:
"Let’s be clear, it is the job and obligation of all investment managers, including hedge fund managers, to get their clients the most return they can. They are allowed to be charitable with their own money, and many are spectacularly so, but if they give away their clients’ money to share in the “sacrifice”, they are stealing."
"The President screaming that the hedge funds are looking for an unjustified taxpayer-funded bailout is the big lie writ large. Find me a hedge fund that has been bailed out. Find me a hedge fund, even a failed one, that has asked for one. In fact, it was only because hedge funds have not taken government funds that they could stand up to this bullying. The TARP recipients had no choice but to go along."
"The President's attempted diktat takes money from bondholders and gives it to a labor union that delivers money and votes for him. Why is he not calling on his party to "sacrifice" some campaign contributions, and votes, for the greater good? Shaking down lenders for the benefit of political donors is recycled corruption and abuse of power."
[url=http://finance.yahoo.com/tech-ticker/article/241837/Hedge-Fund-Leader-Blasts-Obama-for-"Bullying"-and-"Abuse-of-Power"?tickers=%5Edji,%5Egspc,GM,ARM,DAN,GT,XLF?sec=topStories&pos=9&asset=&ccode=]web page[/url]
Thomas - The Tank Engine
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Quote:
The President's attempted diktat
That sounds like it hurt. 
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lol, I was going to say, what's that got to do with anything? 
I am unfamiliar with this feeling of optimism
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I like this one better because he's very good at posting links.
I am unfamiliar with this feeling of optimism
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Yeesh. Here's your link. You better use it!!  [url=http://finance.yahoo.com/tech-ticker/article/241837/Hedge-Fund-Leader-Blasts-Obama-for-"Bullying"-and-"Abuse-of-Power"?tickers=%5Edji,%5Egspc,GM,ARM,DAN,GT,XLF?sec=topStories&pos=9&asset=&ccode=]Link that will never be used[/url] WTF!! It previews and then I get this crap! Nevermind. Just take my word for it. 
Last edited by Divot; 05/06/09 10:31 AM.
Thomas - The Tank Engine
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Quote:
"Let’s be clear, it is the job and obligation of all investment managers, including hedge fund managers, to get their clients the most return they can. They are allowed to be charitable with their own money, and many are spectacularly so, but if they give away their clients’ money to share in the “sacrifice”, they are stealing."
I get what this guy is saying and I understand the anger. However, I think he'll come to regret the above statement when hedge fund managers that DO hold Chrysler bonds end up getting LESS than $0.30 on the dollar as the car company tries to emerge from Chapter 11. I wonder what the clients of said hedge fund managers will call it when they COULD have cut their losses at $0.30 on the dollar and they end up with $0.15 on the dollar. The words "poor judgement" come to mind. 
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These guys are paid to make that call. If they think they'll get more than $.30, then it's their call. If they get less, they'll be called on it.
It's not their job to say "we'll take this much for the good of the country. I'm not working in the best interest of our investors."
Thomas - The Tank Engine
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I keep wondering what the hedge funds that invested in Chrysler feel they will get from the Courts in this instance.. perhaps they feel they will get more with Chrysler in Bankruptcy then they were offered last week.
If that's the case, they were smart to hold out.. if it turns out the courts find a lesser amount to be Chryslers liability to them,, they screwed up..
Time (and the courts) will tell.
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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All well and good, but remember, the deal was offered to keep Chrysler from filing Chapter 11 in the first place. It doesn't take a genius to figure out that, if $0.30 on the dollar is being offerred to stay OUT of Chapter 11, your chances of getting more than that once you're holdings are PART of a Chapter 11 filing are, basically, ZERO. In fact, speculative debt in the form of bonds is often reduced to pennies on the dollar because repayment of that kind of debt is not as critical to the long-term health of the company as other debt obligations are (e.g. suppliers).
We'll see what happens. They may still get what was initially offerred to them. I think the odds are stacked against them, however. ::shrug::
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YOUR COMPLETELY MISSING THE POINT ....
as he states this is RECYCLED GOVERMENT CORRUPTION AT ITS BEST .. and no one is talking at all about that ..
its OK for the members of the UAW(current employees as well as RETIRED ONES) to walk away with EVERYTHING IN TACT and suffer very very minimally in this .. but the hedge funds give up 70% of there investments ...
go take a look at what Obama is doing .. serously go take a look .. its MINDBOGGLING what is going on here ...
Obama should be put in jail for this plan ... and I'm serious .. ITS DISGUISTING!! .. the UAW has long been a SACRED COW of the Dems .. and what is happening here is SICKENING ...
and while were on the subject .. WHY IN THE HELL SHOULD THE INVESTORS NOT GET A BAILOUT ... after all there there the LEAST RESPONSIBLE for whats happend .. as usual the Gov't is BAILING OUT THOSE RESPONSIBLE while turning there backs on the ones that had NOTHING TO DO WITH IT ..
why does everyone get gov't money in the form of bailouts but them .. why???
look at it from someone invested in Chrysler .. lets see here ..
1. I have given these guys a BOATLOAD OF MY HARD EARNED MONEY in the form of gov't bailout ..
2. I am now going to be lucky to get 50 cents on the dollar in this fiasco ...
3. the UAW has benifited EVERY STEP OF THE WAY ,.. and now the biggest fleece in the history of corporate america is pretty much being swept under the rug ..
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Just clicking Thought this would be a good place to put this article... Quote:
Chrysler can begin selling assets to Fiat, judge rules
Posted by cpinckar May 06, 2009 02:33AM
Tony Dejak / Associated PressA judge in New York has ruled that Chrysler can proceed with selling its assets to Fiat.
NEW YORK -- The judge overseeing Chrysler LLC's Chapter 11 proceedings has ruled that the automaker can start taking steps toward selling the vast majority of its assets to Italy's Fiat Group SpA. The judge also said lawyers for a dissident group of lenders have until noon today to file a list of members with the court, ruling that their identities do not need to be sealed despite reported death threats.
After more than seven hours of testimony and legal arguments, Judge Arthur Gonzales approved the bidding procedures for the proposed sale late Tuesday, saying they represented a "clear and orderly process."
Bids for all or part of Chrysler's assets must be submitted by May 20, and a determination of the lead bid made by May 26. A final sale hearing would be held on May 27 and the sale could close in as little as 30 days after that.
If a sale to Fiat fails to go through, Chrysler will pay the automaker a breakup fee of $35 million.
Lawyers on Tuesday packed the hot and stuffy New York City courtroom for a third-straight business day of testimony in the case, which the automaker hopes will end in a swift exit from court oversight. Attorneys for Auburn Hills, Mich.-based Chrysler LLC argued that the automaker had essentially been up for sale for most of the last two years and that a speedy sale was needed in order to preserve the value of the company's assets.
In addition, it's indisputable that the automaker cannot survive without government financing that would not be provided without some kind of partnership with another automaker, Chrysler attorney Corinne Ball said.
"It's uncontroverted that time is not our friend here," Ball told the court. "The preservation of value demands that we move forward."
Ball pointed to cases such as Lehman Brothers, Bear Stearns and Wachovia as examples of how quick sales at distressed companies can be successful.
Asset sales at companies operating under bankruptcy protection usually are accomplished through auctions, though there generally is a lead bidder, which in this case would be Fiat. The idea is to make sure that the company, and its lenders, get the most that they can for the assets.
Chrysler has said that it's open to bids from other parties, but doubts that it would get a better offer than the one from Fiat already on the table.
But those representing a dissident group of Chrysler lenders said the sale procedures were designed to prevent other bidders from coming forward and argued for Gonzales to grant more time for potential buyers to do the research they needed and make appropriate offers. On Monday, the same group of lenders had objected to a Chrysler motion to allow the company to access $4.5 billion in bankruptcy financing, saying that it was too closely tied to the proposed sale.
Thomas Lauria, an attorney for the lenders group, argued that no other legitimate bids for Chrysler have surfaced in the last two years because there hasn't been a proper process in place for them to be submitted.
Lauria said it's Chrysler's own fault that it waited until it ran out of money to file for bankruptcy protection and potential bidders for the company's assets shouldn't be forced to rush because of the company's actions.
"The fact is, the liquidation value of the company was materially reduced over that period of time," Lauria said. "And at the same time, the company was burning up all of its cash and getting ready to tell us all we had a lot of things to do and to hurry up."
Early on in Tuesday's hearing, Gonzales ruled that the identities of the dissident group's members do not need to be sealed, despite arguments from their attorney that death threats were made against some of them.
Lauria said the names should be sealed by the court because some of the members had received threats of violence after been singled out by President Barack Obama as the cause of Chrysler's bankruptcy filing.
The group of holdout lenders had refused a deal that would amount to 29 cents on the dollar to dissolve what they're owed and go along with the government's restructuring plan for Chrysler. President Obama said Thursday that the lenders were seeking an "unjustified taxpayer-funded bailout" after Chrysler and his auto task force cleared the company's other hurdles, including the Fiat deal and a cost-cutting pact that the United Auto Workers ratified last week.
But Robert Hamilton, an attorney for Chrysler, said those threats only amounted to four or five "rants" on a newspaper Web site.
Gonzales gave the lenders group until noon today to file their list of members with the court.
Michigan's state attorney general also filed an objection Tuesday over concerns that if the sale to Fiat goes through, the new company formed wouldn't meet obligations to a state workers' compensation fund. But Gonzales said the objection could be resolved later if and when he is asked to rule on a final sale motion.
As the afternoon hearing stretched into the night, Chrysler turnaround officials and executives testified about the events of the months leading up to the company's bankruptcy protection filing.
Scott Garberding, Chrysler's executive vice president for procurement, described efforts to form alliances with automakers other than Fiat, including General Motors Corp. and Nissan, in recent years.
In addition, Robert Manzo, an executive director with Capstone Advisory Group LLC and one of Chrysler's top restructuring advisers, described how the automaker found itself with few options and dwindling cash in the month leading up to Chrysler's government-imposed April 30 restructuring deadline.
"Given the options available over the past 30 days and the lack of liquidity, we could choose a transaction along the lines of the Fiat deal with the help of the U.S. Treasury or face immediate liquidation," Manzo said.
Last edited by Damanshot; 05/06/09 12:28 PM.
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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Quote:
These guys are paid to make that call. If they think they'll get more than $.30, then it's their call. If they get less, they'll be called on it.
It's not their job to say "we'll take this much for the good of the country. I'm not working in the best interest of our investors."
EXACTLY.
Their clients pay them to make the best decisions w/ their money. They are not running a charity, they are running a firm that is trying to make money.
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Quote:
and while were on the subject .. WHY IN THE HELL SHOULD THE INVESTORS NOT GET A BAILOUT ... after all there there the LEAST RESPONSIBLE for whats happend .. as usual the Gov't is BAILING OUT THOSE RESPONSIBLE while turning there backs on the ones that had NOTHING TO DO WITH IT ..
I agree.....but as was said, it doesn't benefit president Obama and his obvious disdain for people who have more than a few hundred bucks in the bank and don't live in Section 8 housing.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong ![[Linked Image]](http://www.dawgtalkers.net/uploads/small-gator-chomp.gif)
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Isn't it true that those bond holders legally and contractually have first dibs as creditors in any Chrysler bankruptcy proceedings? Isn't it also true that under normal circumstances, most bankruptcy courts would immediately toss the UAW's labor contract with Chrysler; declare it null and void?
I'm asking - I have heard that's true, but I'm not sure it is.
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3. the UAW has benifited EVERY STEP OF THE WAY ,.. and now the biggest fleece in the history of corporate america is pretty much being swept under the rug ..
BINGO!!!!!!!!! This president is corrupt as can be, and noone is saying a thing. WTF happened to this country?
Your insight here has given me a greater respect for you. I just don't understand how people are missing what is going on. It definately is mindboggling. The worst part is the media's refusal to report facts. Journalism no longer exists in the American media. Opinion is the news nowadays. The major media outlets are now propoganda machines for the White House. Sounds alot like what happened in most Soviet block countries.
Many will attack what you say, and many will bring up Bush's name while doing it. This has nothing to do with Bush, and until that excuse is put to rest, the lemmings will follow this fool to the ruination of our country.
#gmstrong
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BINGO!!!!!!!!! This president is corrupt as can be, and noone is saying a thing. WTF happened to this country?
Like I said when Obama got elected, Obama will get a free pass on everything.
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I live in NY, I know a couple of hedgers, I know other people that work at some of the bigger hedges. Ummm, a few things. I've never heard of hedger feeling bullied, that is laughable! Especially an ex-Goldman quant. These guys are like player agents, only twice the ego and (literally) ten times the money. The punch line to his little tears over being bullied rant is that he won! They always do. What's funnier is that AQS had no involvement in Chrysler.
Yes, it's true that they have to be cold blooded and 'eyes on the prize' for the sake of their investors but a lot of the bigger hedges have been working with a majority of their own capital for a while, their buy-in levels went from 1-5mil to the stratosphere and some you just can't buy into anymore anyway. And I'm willing to wager fat cash that many of the hedgers don't stand to make money off of Chrysler as a pure investment, they stand to if/when it collapses. Chrysler hasn't been a recommended 'buy" stock for quite some time... why are all these other hedgers major investors in Chrysler in 2009 in the first place, hmmmmm?!?! They have been shorting the whole ride to the basement and their investments of the last few years were often collateralize, preferred stock not common stock, so they actually DO get paid, and first, in a government restructuring.
I guess what I'm saying is that I totally understand why they wouldn't bite on this. And it's a bit naive to think they would. It's just sad because it's some of THESE GUYS who created a lot of this mess. They didn't invent the CDS mess directly but it was their money and abuse that took it from being a problem to a full scale potential economy killer. They didn't repeal the uptick rule personally but it's a given that they definitely played an active and profiteering part in Bear Sterns collapse. They thrive off of volatility - both ways - it's basically the second definition of a hedge. It's true that a scorpion will never be a frog and these guys are the MOST scorpion of the scorpions and you just can't ask them to be frogs. But it sucks to know that they're going to make out. And they will. They might still take a little loss in the restructuring but it won't be nearly the donut the average investor will get and many of them have already made so much money off of this it's not funny. What can anyone do about it? Nothing. We deregulated to the nth degree and bought it when these guys told us the system would correct itself. Nobody's bigger than the system right? It's about just free markets right? Look at who is saying this.
Why isn't anyone talking about reinstating the uptick rule???? I've read things talking about how and when it got repealed etc etc but very little about anyone making a concerted effort to put it back in place.
One thing I found interesting though... that the Obama admin is going after off shore shelters but mere days after his head-butting (and losing) to the hedgers. I don't know specifically what hedges are tangled up with Chrysler but many many hedges have off shore operations. Just saying....
"Team Chemistry No Match for Team Biology" (Onion Sports Headline)
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Nice post.
It's funny, the SEC did away with the rule a few years ago to see if it really worked.
I think there are 4-5 proposals out there right now to bring it back in one form or another as I do think there have been some bear raids taking place over the last year or so, driving the price of some stocks to artificially low levels.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong
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Quote:
Isn't it true that those bond holders legally and contractually have first dibs as creditors in any Chrysler bankruptcy proceedings?
Generally, this is the case in bankruptcy court. The bondholders would be a first or second lienholder, ahead of stockholders and any labor agreement. The court can void any contract, but would be unlikely to undermine the basic structure of bond obligations.
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Isn't it also true that under normal circumstances, most bankruptcy courts would immediately toss the UAW's labor contract with Chrysler; declare it null and void?
They may toss it, modify it, or hold it in place in it's entirety. It is up to the court.
Thomas - The Tank Engine
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Great post.
He didn't say he was bullied. He said they tried to bully these guys. There is a difference. I believe that BofA was bullied into a bad decision. They kept quiet about it and are still paying. They would have been better off to have gone public with the bullying, but fell for the "it's in the best interest of the country" BS.
These hedge fund guys do make money, up and down. However, they don't put it all into their own pockets. You can invest with them (though many do have extremely high initial investments). For the most part, they make money for other people.
The uptick rule will be reinstated. The initial study that showed minimal impact of it's repeal will be overriden by recent performance.
Welcome to New York.
Thomas - The Tank Engine
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Like I said when Obama got elected, Obama will get a free pass on everything.
I give them all free passes until they do something sunstantial that really ticks me off. For example, with Clinton it was Waco and with GW Bush it was Iraq.
I see why these hedge funds people are ticked for being given a lower priority to assets of the company than their investment merits. So the hedge funds figured they would get a better deal from a bankrupcy court, that's their right. But there's more to it than just their side of the story and definitely, I won't be shedding any tears for them.
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That's realy not the point though. The government already has massive investments in the banking industry. There is talk that they will convert their equity into actual shares ..... which would give them controlling interest in several large banks. Once that happens ..... how long do other banks hold out? Welcome to The Socialist Bank of The United States. The government is telling Chrysler what to do with their business. (And while I don't think that any of the Big 3 have done a particularly good job running their businesses, the government really shouldn't be telling them how to do business) Is the government working towards keeping Chrysler an American automaker? Nope. Welcome to the Italian arm of the Big 3. How far behind can a GM sale to someone like Toyota be? So much for "Keeping and adding US jobs." The truly scariest part of all of this is that he who controls the money, controls all. We are rapidly moving towards a socialized financial system .... and business is being run down at the same time. There is so much talk of increased regulations ..... revising tax laws to punish success ...... and so many other thigns that make doing business in a successful manner harder and harder to accomplish. Fear not though ..... the government will be happy to step in and fill the void ........
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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Actually bro if GMDawg wants to stay in the car indusrty ... he will be changing his name to
CHINADawg ... there gonna fill the void we leave behind ..
there actually the most powerful nation in the world now .. there just smart and allow everyone to think we are ... but that is no longer true ....
its like u said .. whoever controls the money .. and right now its the Chinese ... they been buying big chunks of businesses and property up for over a decade now .. hell ... they own so many of our big legal firms I believe there was talk of or we actually passed a bill to keep then from owning a majority stake in anymore a few years back .....
I'd love to know how much of this country they actually own .. and I would be scared to know how much of our gov't debt they've financed ...
I would not be suprised if they could not bankrupt our country today ... and some day .. when were no longer a profit center or they just want us to go down for whatever reason .... they will ..
its really really scary whats going on out there ..
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As long as they pay me, they can call me anything they want 
I AM ALWAYS RIGHT... except when I am wrong.
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Folks would not believe the amount of Natural resources ( commodities ) China has bought or gained controlling interest of down here ( Latin America ) over the last 5 to 6 years ..
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People need to accept that China will soon be the new superpower. 
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Folks would not believe the amount of Natural resources ( commodities ) China has bought or gained controlling interest of down here ( Latin America ) over the last 5 to 6 years ..
I would .... China is a very smart country ... they just methodically keep building and expanding ... what they've done with there military is down right scary ..
and there a great partner in that they could care less what u do internally .. as long as u sell them what they want ... U can do what ever the hell U want politically .. they have made NO ENEMIES as far as that goes .. they stay out of your business ..
there like the elephant in the room that no one wants to talk about ... all the politicians and folks that pay attention .. know what there currently capable of .. BUT NO ONE TALKS ABOUT IT cause its scary as hell ... one day ... theres going to be a rude awakening ..
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I was thinking of the word Greed  ....
The Mammal
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I did not realize this ... I just heard that were forgiving the 7 billion dollar "loan" we gave to Chrysler ... isn't that nice ... *L* ..
BUT in return . were getting an 8% stake in the "new company" ... LUCKY US ... *L* ..
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Why isn't anyone talking about reinstating the uptick rule???? I've read things talking about how and when it got repealed etc etc but very little about anyone making a concerted effort to put it back in place.
My father, re-tired stockbroker (and an honest one) and now-artist (and one of the few republican artists) has been yelling about changing the uptick rule for a rediculously long time. I don't get it, but he would understand it better than me.
He keeps saying Obama is just waiting to pass his agenda before fixing the rule and then letting everything fix, so he can say he did it..............
I don't hear about it that much anymore, every now and then on CNBC (isn't that the money one?) when he's watching it.....
Anyway, what I was wondering is the same thing that Dave was. I still don't get what you're saying. How much do bond holders get? It's interesting how you guys say that the hedges wanted to short it in the first place.......... But for an ordinary bond holder. How much do they get for their dollar. Because they should have first dibs over everyone no matter what, at least that's what i've always understood in business.
Whether they shorted their investments and made money off the company's value dropping or not................... That's going to have to be proven. Technically, just for bond holders, how much would they receive?
UCONN HUSKIES 2014 Champions of Basketball
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All Pro
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U.S. Considers Financial Pay Rules by Louise Story and Eric Dash Obama administration officials are contemplating a major overhaul of the compensation practices in the financial services industry, moving beyond banks to include more loosely regulated hedge funds and private equity firms. Federal policymakers have been discussing ways to ensure that pay is more closely linked to performance. Among the ideas under consideration are incorporating compensation as a “safety and soundness” concern on official bank examinations as well as expanding the existing regulatory powers of the Securities and Exchange Commission and Federal Reserve to obtain more information regarding compensation. The policymakers are also expected to publish formal guidelines regarding Wall Street pay. Any overhaul is likely to be tied to the Obama administration’s broader efforts to curb systemic risks to the economy. That means the new rules could apply to financial firms like hedge funds or private equity firms that never accepted money from the Troubled Asset Relief Program, or TARP. It would also mean greater oversight on compensation for banks that are seeking to return the TARP money in an effort to avoid the new strings attached to pay. Administration officials have been contemplating broad-based pay reforms since early this year. In February, the Treasury Department was instructed to write detailed guidelines to the new executive pay rules for banks accepting TARP money, rules that were inserted at the 11th hour into the economic stimulus bill. But the effort was apparently put off after the furor over bonuses at the insurance giant American International Group in March. Financial policymakers had hoped for things to cool down, and have also been preoccupied with a number of other issues, including the highly-anticipated stress tests for the nation’s biggest banks. Just as the tests aimed to give the markets more clarity on the financial condition of the banks, the compensation guidelines may be designed to give the market more clarity over pay. Wall Street pay has long been a hot-button issue in Washington, but the public outrage over excessive compensation has erupted in recent weeks. Bank executives have been pressing for more clarity on the pay issue, fearful that talented managers and traders might flee their companies for overseas institutions and boutique firms. But President Obama and lawmakers on both parties have been looking for ways to rein in excessive pay packages and make sure that compensation does not encourage them to take more risk. Treasury officials have said new executive compensation rules could be released shortly, with some bankers and lawmakers expecting them to be formally released before the Memorial Day recess. NY TimesHow long until you make too much money? Taxation isn't enough? 
Thomas - The Tank Engine
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Legend
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Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 40,398 Likes: 280 |
As I stated before, how much more clear does he have to make his intentions? 
yebat' Putin
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Hall of Famer
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Hall of Famer
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Quote:
People need to accept that China will soon be the new superpower.
Soon be?
KING
You may be in the drivers seat but God is holding the map. #GMSTRONG
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DawgTalkers.net
Forums DawgTalk Tailgate Forum Hedge Fund Leader Blasts Obama for
"Bullying" and "Abuse of Power"
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