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This summer after Dallas had cut S Roy Williams many here called for us to "Get This Guy" and were met with a chorus of "He can't play" & "He can't cover the pass".
Well, five games into the season none of the following teams have been able to exploit this "over the hill bum".
Broncos
Packers
Steelers
Ravens
Browns
I've got a big pot of "crow stew" so step up and have a bowl.  Everyone of those teams is way above average in the passing game (except one team that doesn't need to be pointed out.)
How good would this guy have looked in a Browns uniform -especially noting the poor play from Elam and Poo-Poo-Pool?
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Hall of Famer
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He still can't cover and I'm still glad we didn't sign him. The Bengals are even taking him out in passing situations.
I don't think Pool or Elam have been nearly as bad as you think. Pool's been having a pretty darn good season. His play in the Bengals game was spectacular. Elam hasn't been terrible either.
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Legend
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Legend
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I believe you accidentally typed Roy Williams when you meant to type Brian Dawkins as safeties we should have pursued.
#gmstrong
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Dawg Talker
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Quote:
I believe you accidentally typed Roy Williams when you meant to type Brian Dawkins as safeties we should have pursued.
You know what? I think you're right.
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Hall of Famer
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Quote:
How good would this guy have looked in a Browns uniform -especially noting the poor play from Elam and Poo-Poo-Pool?
What exactly have these two done wrong that Roy Williams would do so much better?
The Bengals were a good defense with or without Roy Williams, who I believe has also been hurt quite a bit as well.
you had a good run Hank.
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Legend
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Legend
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He still can't cover and I'm still glad we didn't sign him. The Bengals are even taking him out in passing situations.
I don't think Pool or Elam have been nearly as bad as you think. Pool's been having a pretty darn good season. His play in the Bengals game was spectacular. Elam hasn't been terrible either.
Elam I can do without, but Pool is playing a lot better than I expected, being as concussion-prone as he is.
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Legend
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Elam is a Mangini guy, so I don't see us getting rid of him anytime soon (we tried to get him before the draft and then made sure to include him in our draft day trade), which is why I don't necessarily see us making a play for a guy like Berry or Mays in the draft (especially if Pool can stay healthy).
I'm not saying I agree with it, but that's just how I see it playing out.
I will admit that I'm not smart enough to know the difference between free safety and strong safety, so Berry/Mays may fit in and I just don't know it.
I am unfamiliar with this feeling of optimism
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I don't think Mangini is so egotistical that he would pass on Berry because Elam is "his guy". I do see your logic though.
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elam had some nice short yardage stops, himself. i have no problem with him playing. we wanted him in the offseason, almost got him, couldn't get him, and then we got him. why is he getting blasted now? they'll all eventually give up a big play.
i have no problem with our safeties. i was scared as all heck when i saw pool hit his head falling down, and then seeing the helmet roll, though. he almost made the pick though.
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Legend
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I get it on Elam, and know he's not terrible. The Mangini thing bothers me, I guess. Worn out vets who can't hang with their old team, we get them and we're still not real good,....I'm all about drafting either (or both) of those 2 kids and anything less than a RT will highly send me into deeper depression... bummer is (I posted this elsewhere), I think we're gonna have to start over at QB.
Roy Williams got lucky, landing with the Bengals on the rise this year.
Dawkins is in Denver, no ??
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well to be fair, elam is a bit different in that he was an up-and-comer instead of a declining vet. i also think rex ryan signed a safety yet still matched our offer sheet, showing they felt he held some value.
that said, roy williams' defensive coordinator in cinci was his defensive coordinator in dallas. i think zimmer knows a thing or two on how to use williams. dawkins is also benefiting from mike nolan, a great defensive coordinator as well. i think that, combined with the fact that both players used to be playmakers means the two can clearly play well with the experienced coordinators knowing how to use them.
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Legend
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Legend
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I don't think Mangini is so egotistical that he would pass on Berry because Elam is "his guy". I do see your logic though.
I should hope he isn't. If there's a guy who is a true upgrade, then you take him, IMO.
I am unfamiliar with this feeling of optimism
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Dawg Talker
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He still can't cover and I'm still glad we didn't sign him. The Bengals are even taking him out in passing situations.
I don't think Pool or Elam have been nearly as bad as you think. Pool's been having a pretty darn good season. His play in the Bengals game was spectacular. Elam hasn't been terrible either.
Elam I can do without, but Pool is playing a lot better than I expected, being as concussion-prone as he is.
I doubt Pool is re-signed at the end of the season. Especially with his injury history. I dont know what other FAs are out there next year but there is also alot of decent safties coming out in the next draft. I wouldnt mind 2 new safties next year because I feel Sorenston needs upgraded an Pool I dont think will be re-signed. Plus they wont use a tag on him although I think you get 2 Transition tags. Franchise Vickers because a top 5 FB pay wouldnt hurt the cap. Maybe on Jackson. At least a transition tag on Jackson and the Browns have a right to match and if they dont I think they get the other teams 2nd pick or 1st and 3rd.
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Dawg Talker
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Quote:
Quote:
How good would this guy have looked in a Browns uniform -especially noting the poor play from Elam and Poo-Poo-Pool?
What exactly have these two done wrong that Roy Williams would do so much better?
The Bengals were a good defense with or without Roy Williams, who I believe has also been hurt quite a bit as well.
Well when we're playing a WR at S there must be more than one or two issues. Pool has three main problems:
1) He's one tackle away from a career ending concusion -and he knows it - which explains problem #2.
2) He's afraid to hit. He's the king of the "push and shove" tackle. He slows down before impact.
3) He can't cover. Every time I see him make a play he has to take 3-5 steps to get there. One on one he's dead meat.
Elam is simply average. A little too slow, a little too soft.
Safety has to be an impact player. Every top notch defense has a dominant safety. Look at the Steelers D without 43 - or the Colts D without Sanders. Having a Brian Dawkins would instantly change the identity of our defense. Think back to the Eric Turner days.
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Legend
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Think back to the Eric Turner daysNow, you just had to go and do that, huh? That boy played defense by himself,...well, he was 3 of the 11 that were out there. 
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Legend
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Legend
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Dawkins is in Denver, no ??
yes he is....I was one of the guys who didn't think he could stay healthy (and maybe he can't, it is early), but he's orchestrating their DBs every play and flying all over the place for them...ah well.
#gmstrong
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2nd String
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2nd String
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Quote:
This summer after Dallas had cut S Roy Williams many here called for us to "Get This Guy" and were met with a chorus of "He can't play" & "He can't cover the pass".
Well, five games into the season none of the following teams have been able to exploit this "over the hill bum".
Broncos
Packers
Steelers
Ravens
Browns
I've got a big pot of "crow stew" so step up and have a bowl. Everyone of those teams is way above average in the passing game (except one team that doesn't need to be pointed out.)
How good would this guy have looked in a Browns uniform -especially noting the poor play from Elam and Poo-Poo-Pool?
Hindsight is 20/20. Not too mention, maybe he didn't want to sign with the Browns. Did that ever occur to anyone? I mean, I know it's hard to believe that any player would turn down the opportunity to play for the Browns. We are such a storied franchise. 
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Elam is simply average. A little too slow, a little too soft.
Safety has to be an impact player. Every top notch defense has a dominant safety. Look at the Steelers D without 43 - or the Colts D without Sanders. Having a Brian Dawkins would instantly change the identity of our defense. Think back to the Eric Turner days.
Bingo...And we've been looking for that Safety since 99...
Berry or Mays SHOULD be severely considered if we end up in the Top 7-8 in this draft...
Go Browns!!!
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1st String
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Why all the hate? He seems like a nice guy to me!
May Flowers and Spring Weather!
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Legend
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We're gonna be in the Top 5 and they should still receive VERY SERIOUS consideration.
It's high time we give up on the QB Merry-Go-Round and just go with whatever we've got and focus on building the defense and get by with a mediocre offense until then.
Browns is the Browns
... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.
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Think back to the Eric Turner days
reading that made my body hurt.......That boy could lay the lumber on your ....behind. loved watching him play...
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We're gonna be in the Top 5 and they should still receive VERY SERIOUS consideration.
It's high time we give up on the QB Merry-Go-Round and just go with whatever we've got and focus on building the defense and get by with a mediocre offense until then.
Eight teams at 0-5 or 1-4...Another 5 at 2-3...No lock to be Top 5...Not yet anyway...lol...
That tells me 13 teams SUCK...That's damn near HALF THE LEAGUE...lol...
Go Browns!!!
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Legend
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Quote:
Why all the hate? He seems like a nice guy to me!
It isn't hate, and he is a nice guy.
That doesn't mean we shouldn't improve.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong ![[Linked Image]](http://www.dawgtalkers.net/uploads/small-gator-chomp.gif)
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Legend
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We will finish no better than 4-12, but I think it will more likely be 3-13 or even 2-12.... and I just don't see 5 or more teams beating any of that.
Browns is the Browns
... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.
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I will admit that I'm not smart enough to know the difference between free safety and strong safety, so Berry/Mays may fit in and I just don't know it.
First..The free safety tends to be smaller and faster than the strong safety. His job tends to be to stay back a bit, watch the play unfold, and follow the ball. On pass plays, the free safety is expected to close down the receiver by the time the ball gets to him...
SS-tends to be a bit larger and stronger than the free safety, however the word "strong" is used because he is tasked to handle the "strong side" of the offense, the side where the tight end lines up. The strong safety tends to play closer to the line and assist in stopping the run.
Thats where the Browns have been weak..up the middle..from DT>MLB>SS..
He may also be responsible for covering a player, such as a running back or fullback or h-back, who goes in motion in the backfield and then out for a pass. A strong safety's duties are somewhere in between those of a linebacker and those of the other defensive back, in that he can both cover the pass and stop the run..
In our situation, I'd prefer a upgrade on either spot...Pool has a tendency to get concussions and fall into lapses..he's not consistant..he'll have one or two good games then fall off the chart...
Elam is a slightly below average safety...I haven't seen anything really special about him..
So yes getting Berry would be a upgrade..Mays may be the more physically gifted but he isn't the ballhawk Berry is..that said Mays could turn out to be that physical type of pro safety that comes up and cleans up nicely..
Ask what you'd rather have...a safety thats feared by players in general or a safety that QB's fear?
Give me a safety that QB's fear..
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I figured you'd help educate me. Thanks!
I am unfamiliar with this feeling of optimism
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Practice Squad
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Roy Williams brusied his forearm a couple weeks and wasn't active vs the Browns.
Last week vs the Ravens,he brusied it and was replaced by Morgan Trent,the rook out Michigan.
Like Williams or not,he gives the Bengals secondary a physical presence and leadership.
The Bengals probally have one of the best secondaries in the AFC North.
They've shutdown every #1 WR they have faced this year.
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