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I recall in the preseason predictions that the Browns at worst would be a 6-10 team this year on this board.
I have even recall some said this team would be a better team than the other Ohio team in 2009.
I don't know if some got blinded by the all the players that came over from the Jets or that automatically Brady Quinn was going to turn into a above average QB.
Its funny how the ones the proudly proclaiming the Browns were not a rebuilding project in 2009 don't post here or they post less frequently.
None of the ex-Jets that came over or worth a flip.
Theres a reason why Rex Ryan didn't resign them in the 1st place.
Yet in these parts,most all overlooked that facet.
Mangini missed the boat in not properly addressing a heir apparant to Jamal Lewis.
James Davis doesn't count.
I'm talking about a proven gamebreaker that produced at a high level.
Mangini gambled on washed up vets at LB....
He gambled on a overated 2nd string saftey.
He took a FA WR that one else wanted.
He took a RT,that belongs on a scout team.
did I miss on anything?
did I miss on anything
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Each year is a new beginning, and with new beginnings come renewed optimism. With renewed optimism, you overvalue that which you're evaluating, and thus, yes, more people than not overrated this team.
It's simple human nature.
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy.
Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
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I had hopes for 5-6 wins before the preseason. Then I saw them against Green Bay. I mean, for the most part, the 1st preseason game doesn't mean that much. But the way their first team trashed ours, I was like time to downgrade the win totals a bit.
But it wasn't like I had high expectations anyway. Alot of them were the Phil Savage lovers and koolaid drinkers.
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No this team was not overrated.
People thought we'd be bad.
We are bad.
Sports Illustrated had us as the worst team in the league before the season. Good thing the Rams and Bucs are so awful unless SI would be right.
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X2.
I'll just add that there were plenty as well trying to temper expectations and saying that we were in fact not a very good team.
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Many on this board thought we'd be competitive but the non-homers could see what was in store for us this season.
Like a bad stock, this team is in a strong downtrend and no sign of breaking that trend anytime soon. Until proven otherwise, this is and will be a pathetic team.
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Quote:
None of the ex-Jets that came over or worth a flip.
Theres a reason why Rex Ryan didn't resign them in the 1st place.
Yet in these parts,most all overlooked that facet.
Mangini missed the boat in not properly addressing a heir apparant to Jamal Lewis.
James Davis doesn't count.
I'm talking about a proven gamebreaker that produced at a high level.
Mangini gambled on washed up vets at LB....
He gambled on a overated 2nd string saftey.
He took a FA WR that one else wanted.
He took a RT,that belongs on a scout team.
did I miss on anything?
did I miss on anything
Ya know it's this kinda stuff that makes me wonder about some on here. I think Toad explained it pretty well in another post about all the reason's that Genie & Koke are operating like they are. Genie brought in guy's that knew the system and could teach the others, I don't think he brought in anybody that he thought would set the world on fire. Why? you may ask.....Well, thats the easy part....simply, were not ready. The FO knows this is a Eval. Yr. They want to see all of the guys here & now, regardless how painful it might be. Why waste $$ on some FA when it won't count this year?
As far as the draft goes, which many did not like, I understand the reasoning behind it. We started at step 1. Up the middle. step 2. We had little at WR, so why not draft our future in a area of need? We did. Next draft will be step 3. LB, DE & RB. I don't think we will break the bank again in FA, but thats OK. I do think we will sign a RT & RG. Will be our biggest signing. This is a step by step process. Doesn't really matter if some agree or not.
This is going to take sometime. So we just need to ride it out. For those who don't want to wait.....Sorry about your luck.. 
Dawginit since Jan. 24, 2000 Member #180
You can't fix yesterday but you can learn for tomorrow
#GMSTRONG
I want to do it as a Cleveland Brown because that's who I am.”
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Quote:
Ya know it's this kinda stuff that makes me wonder about some on here. I think Toad explained it pretty well in another post about all the reason's that Genie & Koke are operating like they are. Genie brought in guy's that knew the system and could teach the others, I don't think he brought in anybody that he thought would set the world on fire. Why? you may ask.....Well, thats the easy part....simply, were not ready. The FO knows this is a Eval. Yr. They want to see all of the guys here & now, regardless how painful it might be. Why waste $$ on some FA when it won't count this year?
As far as the draft goes, which many did not like, I understand the reasoning behind it. We started at step 1. Up the middle. step 2. We had little at WR, so why not draft our future in a area of need? We did. Next draft will be step 3. LB, DE & RB. I don't think we will break the bank again in FA, but thats OK. I do think we will sign a RT & RG. Will be our biggest signing. This is a step by step process. Doesn't really matter if some agree or not.
This is going to take sometime. So we just need to ride it out. For those who don't want to wait.....Sorry about your luck..
I agree with alot of what you said. I just e-mailed Bruce at ABAO that the Browns need to stop this three and out with the coaching staff and let someone have a five year deal to get it right. The Browns do not have enough pieces, like the Phins did, to turn it around in one off season or even three. As long as we keep turning over the regimes every three years we will never see our beloved Browns in another post-season playoff game much less a Super Bowl. 
Hears to hoping Dorsey is the Browns Ozzie Newsome.
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I agree with that, to a certain extent. Do you allow a coach & staff to go on when it looks like it is not working? I know everybody wants to dump Genie & Co. because of the record & lack-luster performance. But, without looking at all the reason's why this is allowed to go on, (I think mainly because of Evalutation and limited personnel Right Now) No sense in jumping the gun & trying to force square pegs in round holes. Now in year 2 if we don't see some pieces starting to come together & some moves to further the delvelopment then yeah I think the questions will start to come out louder than they are now. I guess thats what everybody is afraid of is that won't happen.
Dawginit since Jan. 24, 2000 Member #180
You can't fix yesterday but you can learn for tomorrow
#GMSTRONG
I want to do it as a Cleveland Brown because that's who I am.”
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I cannot remember what I guessed this team would win. I think I said 7-9 and 9-7 if we had some lucky bounces..... boy was I way off. But I think I began to temper my expectations after the bad draft. And we started bringing in all those "Re-Jets" (copyright pending)   After the last draft I am afraid of what will happen if Mangini's past offseason is any indicator of what he might draft next offseason. Call me very, very, skeptical of what I am seeing. Can you blame some of us after what we have seen since the return? It all looks awfully familiar to me. And I am just preparing for the worst. I have a feeling it is not yet here.
Einstein could not even fathom the mathematical improbabilities of the Browns woes.
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Quote:
I cannot remember what I guessed this team would win. I think I said 7-9 and 9-7 if we had some lucky bounces..... boy was I way off.
But I think I began to temper my expectations after the bad draft.
And we started bringing in all those "Re-Jets" (copyright pending)
After the last draft I am afraid of what will happen if Mangini's past offseason is any indicator of what he might draft next offseason.
Call me very, very, skeptical of what I am seeing.
Can you blame some of us after what we have seen since the return?
It all looks awfully familiar to me.
And I am just preparing for the worst. I have a feeling it is not yet here.
Bad draft? Why. You draft for your system, not fantasy football. We went up the middle with Mack and Veikune, began the rebuiding of the WR core, all 3 of those positions are not the quickest path to your ceiling, they take a little more time.
We won't know if this is a bad draft for another 2 years. If Veikune doesn't become the Mike and at least one of the WR's doesn't become a good NFL starter, then it will be a problem. But to then, give me a break.
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I remember thinking before preseason even began that this team would get 5 or 6 wins, most of what would happen at the end of the season. that number has deffinately gone down. As far as the draft goes....I feel the Browns did a great job with what they had to work with. they did not have many pics going into the draft as they traded a lot away the year before. We also have to remember that before the draft we did not know what to think of Edwards.....and Stallsworth was in trouble with the law. Trading down was very essential. The fact that we were able to trade down and get some players from the Jets helped a lot. not only did they know the coachs new system it filled a team need at saftey which we had no players to start for us. that trade down gave us a lot. and being able to trade down again helped us fill more needs too. I agreed with the theroy of building the offensive line first. and that is what he did. we needed WR's and he got 2 in the second round. I agree that we need linebackers if we are going to have any success with the 3-4 defense but you can only fill so many holes in a draft. I felt with what they had to work with they did a good job on the draft.
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Quote:
Quote:
I cannot remember what I guessed this team would win. I think I said 7-9 and 9-7 if we had some lucky bounces..... boy was I way off.
But I think I began to temper my expectations after the bad draft.
And we started bringing in all those "Re-Jets" (copyright pending)
After the last draft I am afraid of what will happen if Mangini's past offseason is any indicator of what he might draft next offseason.
Call me very, very, skeptical of what I am seeing.
Can you blame some of us after what we have seen since the return?
It all looks awfully familiar to me.
And I am just preparing for the worst. I have a feeling it is not yet here.
Bad draft? Why. You draft for your system, not fantasy football. We went up the middle with Mack and Veikune, began the rebuiding of the WR core, all 3 of those positions are not the quickest path to your ceiling, they take a little more time.
We won't know if this is a bad draft for another 2 years. If Veikune doesn't become the Mike and at least one of the WR's doesn't become a good NFL starter, then it will be a problem. But to then, give me a break.
Uh yeah. Bad draft! Unless our system IS losing.
WR Maclin was drafted at a spot we held .He's playing for Philly.
Macks a good pick but we could of had Unger or maybe/ possibly Wood, both of which are playing at G in Seattle / Buffalo.
( Side tracked. rant coming here.) Which to me makes sense. They play G to get experience. then can move to C when they're ready.We're not even smart enough to let Fraley play RG until Macks ready to make the line calls. We use Porkchop at RG and Fraley at TE? When they did use Fraley at RG, I thought the line actually looked better against the pass rush but our brain trust sure didn't see it
Anyway, we now return you to our regularly scheduled draft bashing.
WE desperately need a RT and Loadholts playing for the Vikes.Instead we're starting a guy who is a proven depth type player at RT and he's smelling up CBS.
As bad as this team is I can't be OK with second round picks that can't dress for games or see the field when a starter is injured. They are blown picks/ or being generous, projects/ that should have been taken much later in the rotation.
I'm not waiting years to judge the first and second rounds of this draft . We're rebuilding. Our first and second round draft picks need to be playing, not riding the pines behind scrubs.We blew it.
As was said so many times before, the plan to stock up on picks sounds good until you look at the Browns record for picking quality players. Lets see we got JT and uh... JT and.. well some of the other guys are OK I guess.
Lets just say my reasoning for being a bit skeptical of the latest and greatest re-builders has some foundation.
 
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Defense Baby!! Gini.. might as well get us a few more day one/two picks.. (Isn't the draft 3 days long now?)
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Yes... I know a college team in Ga who was over rated as well. 
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong ![[Linked Image]](http://www.dawgtalkers.net/uploads/small-gator-chomp.gif)
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Quote:
Was this team overrated in the preseason?
By guys on this board? Of Course!! 
Hell, every year there are guys saying 11-5 or 12-4. That's been happening since the 2nd year.
But that is not the reason people are incensed this year. At least it's not the reason I'm pissed.
Nope, I'm mad because Mangenius took a team that, while average at best, could have still competed in almost every game and gutted it to the point where now I'm pretty sure any really good college team would have a fighting chance of kicking our ass.
That's why I'm mad. And that is why that bonehead has to go.
"People who drink light 'beer' don't like the taste of beer; they just like to pee a lot."
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Capt Frank...yep, most board members did overate this team in the preseason but then again, who would have predicted the Browns would the worst performing team in the NFL after 7 games into the season?
What Browns fans are experiencing and feeling was not predictable in the preseason because Browns fans always have "a degree" of hope for their team.
None of the members of this board predicted the Browns would be this bad with no sign of getting better.
I don't know if it was a shot across Mangini's bow by Lerner, but I did read a story from yesterday's Cleveland.com web page (probably already posted somewhere on this website)...that " Last week, the Browns quietly dismissed Erin O'Brien, who had been one of Mangini's confidantes both here and with the Jets. O'Brien served as the Browns director of team operations.
Hopefully, the Browns can show some signs of improvement (on offense and defense) before the end of the season, so Browns fans are not left with wearing the label of the fans of the worst team in the NFL in the upcoming offseason. Note: I did not say anything about wins because at this point, I'm looking for nothing more than "improvement" in the team's play.
Home of the Free, Because of the Brave...
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This team is still overated by many Browns fans...who actually believe we going in some "right" direction.
Yes, there were alot 7-9 and 8-8 stuff being peddled, new coach always gets people blinded. It was easy to see after offseason we had where this team was headed.
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I think 2007 was overated.
If they couldn't build on it it was a farce.
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Have you ever liked anyone involved in the Browns management or any of our quarterbacks? I think that you just hate everyone.
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No I haven't liked any of the people in this organization since 99, I was on Butchs wagon for awhile, the rest...total duds. And why would I like any of our QB's since we've been back? What, you like the people and direction this franchise has been continually going? Plus, where we are headed right now?  When there is one freaking glimmer of light for this franchise, I will most certainly be happy and support those people. I thought there was back with Butch, I was wrong. Outside of Joe Thomas, Shaun Rogers, and Rob Ryan, the rest of this organization completely sucks. Yeah, I can't stand Mangini, couldnt from the second I heard we hired him, and I never was on the RAC wagon either....I guess I could see your point about hating if either had done a freaking for this team but destroy and lose. I'm sorry that you don't like it that I see this franchise for actually what it is. Sadly there is nothing to be positive about except the hope that Randy is starting to understand that he needs a czar to run this team. That is the only glimmer of hope right now. But i'm not just gonna run around and make trash up to make myself feel better about about the team, they stink and so does the people that run them. Do you need proof of this? 
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I'm not saying Mangini is the savior by any means, but I think he deserves a chance. Many teams make unconventional draft picks (not that Robo was, many had him going in the 1st) and they turn out great. The Pats drafted Sebastian Vollmer (who was projected for the 5th) in the 2nd round.
Just give him time to try and turn it around. It's exactly what you said: This team has very little talent. I appreciate you making that point for me. Bill Cowher couldn't win with these players. I'd go so far to say that no team in the NFL has less base talent than us. We never had a chance of winning this season no matter who our coach was. Give the guy at least one more season.
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The only thing that keeps me with a glimmer of hope with this regime is the reduction in stupid penalties. They are doing something right there IMO and that to me speaks volumes about the discipline they are trying to instill. I can't recall a season where we weren't constantly jumping offsides or having tons of false starts and holding penalties. I know that isn't much, but to me it is a start.
We have very little talent; I'm pretty sure any coach would be "failing" right now. Alex Mack is looking like a solid pick at this point. The book is still out on the receivers, though MoMass has shown some bright spots and Robo is starting to see the field.
Why are you so impressed with Rob Ryan? Just because he is animated? This defense is a sieve. I like him as well, but I'm just saying if you are willing to throw Mangini out, Ryan should go too IMO.
This team sucks no doubt, but starting over again is going to net us nothing. I was skeptical with the Mangini hiring and still am, but I'm not ready to throw him out yet.
#gmstrong
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What part of "Rebuild" do you not understand? I don't think anybody on here was expecting a winning program this year. I agree with deep, let it play out awhile before passing judgment.
Dawginit since Jan. 24, 2000 Member #180
You can't fix yesterday but you can learn for tomorrow
#GMSTRONG
I want to do it as a Cleveland Brown because that's who I am.”
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Quote:
Many on this board thought we'd be competitive but the non-homers could see what was in store for us this season.
Like a bad stock, this team is in a strong downtrend and no sign of breaking that trend anytime soon. Until proven otherwise, this is and will be a pathetic team.
if I recall, most on this board, including myself, thought this would be a 4-5 win season. So, I disagree with your assessment that most on here thought this team would be competitive. The way Mangini ran training camp most of us thought this team would be more disciplined than last year, and that has been shown to be true. We are a more disciplined team than last year, we just lack the talent to be a competitive team this year. Not to mention, some coaching changes still need to be made, in particular the OC, WR coach and QB coach.
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Quote:
What part of "Rebuild" do you not understand? I don't think anybody on here was expecting a winning program this year. I agree with deep, let it play out awhile before passing judgment.
Yeah, if we just keep sending subpar talent out there, eventually it will change. Suddenly David Bowens, Royal, Barton, Elam, McDonald, Poteat, Robo, DA, BQ, St. Claire are going to become good players.
We haven't rebuilt a thing, we exchanged one coaches security blanker vets for anothers. If we are justin "re-building" give the jobs to young players, start more rookies, have more UDFA's on the roster.
But they were brought in for culture.....yeah thats working out. Leadership? By playing the worst football in the league?
I've seen enough "rebuilding" and bad regimes to know the tall tell signs of stupidity. Bad drafting, and exchanging of worthless vets, everybody says the same things "build through the draft".
Exactly...the plan is universal, but properly carrying it out isn't. I already have seen enough to know.
When you make a big mistake, and realize it, and can fix it. Do you just leave it go, and think that somehow its going to get better.
Winning is produced, it doesn't just happen if you stay with a particular regim long enough. Thats just message baord crap that winning is a product of continuity. Its the exact opposite.
We aren't just going to magically get better, talent must be brought in, AND, then be used to its fullest by compitent coaches. Neither has happened, at all.
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Quote:
Was this team overated in the preseason?
By whom? By the optimists who were predicting above .500? Probably. By the realists who were predicting 4 or 5 wins? No.
It was a real long shot to think this team was going to be "good"... but we are (or were) better than we have shown on the field.. the difference between a somewhat competitive team that wins 4 or 5 games and what we are seeing is the result of poor coaching, mismanagement, and loss of will by the players.
yebat' Putin
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I agree with a lot of what is being said......was the team overrated? Depends on who you ask.
In a thread this summer, I talked about how I liked Romeo...but felt it was time for him to go, but that I don't like Mangini, and was not sure he was the right hire....did I get a debate back on why Mangini was the right coach....no....I got told "Sounds like someone is just afraid of the new Browns and what they are going to do to the Steelers!"
HACK
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The team is really a reflection of the owner who can't let it alone. We dropped Palmer for Butch who was a strange combination of agression and fear and then Crennel who was a real players coach and made an average team play. So what happened we get impatient and dump Crennel for another head case in Mangini. I really don't like meddling owners that must have the team win NOW!!! Patience is a very good commodity especially when you have alot to learn. Strange Lerner is not a learner.
Last edited by DG; 11/02/09 09:54 PM.
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Anybody that thought this team could win 4 or more games before the season started was either a admirably lovable homer or a blind fool.
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