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as far as why i think bosh is better than matt ryan, andy dalton and romo
I hope you're talking about basketball now.
As far as "groupthink" mentality, I know my thoughts and I disagree with tons of people on this board about everything. I also think it's a weak argument to say you're going up against the group.
There are often times when "the group" is right because certain matters are so obvious. For instance, killing is wrong. Likewise, Jon Kitna and Charlie Batch are irrelevant to talk about as starting quarterbacks.
Blue ostriches on crack float on milkshakes between the sidewalk titans of gurglefitz. --YTown
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as far as why i think bosh is better than matt ryan, andy dalton and romo
I hope you're talking about basketball now.
As far as "groupthink" mentality, I know my thoughts and I disagree with tons of people on this board about everything. I also think it's a weak argument to say you're going up against the group.
There are often times when "the group" is right because certain matters are so obvious. For instance, killing is wrong. Likewise, Jon Kitna and Charlie Batch are irrelevant to talk about as starting quarterbacks.
you keep providing these statements, but have done nothing to back up your claim that charlie batch and jon kitna are incapable of being starting quarterbacks; how has the cowboys offense fared when romo was injured with kitna as quarterback, relative to the browns? even when kitna was a starter for the lowly lions while essentially acting as a placeholder, he always had roughly an 80 QBR.
charlie batch is an interesting case because he has always been the premier insurance card to roethlisburger, so his numbers aren't reflective of how great of a quarterback he is capable of being when he is constantly in the flow of the game and has a chance to get into a rhythm. also, don't forget batch has two super bowl rings, so he has been there before and is a proven winner.
i think you guys are falling into this trap of conventional wisdom where supposed potential and exceptional performance in recent memory at lower levels of competition (NCAA) outweigh actual performance in the NFL game. colt mccoy was good in college, like every other quarterback in the NFL; unfortunately, like most quarterbacks that come out of college that have severe physical and mental limitations, mccoy isn't a good NFL quarterback.
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you keep providing these statements, but have done nothing to back up your claim that charlie batch and jon kitna are incapable of being starting quarterbacks;
Really..still stuck on Batch...well Steeler fan...if they were capable of being starters they would be...BUT they are Not...do you need a NFL list of QB starters and back up QB's about to retire..
now if you want to see your precious Batch be a starter...why don't you start a league for the.... I pee yellow for my fellow back up QB... that can't be a starter league...
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colt mccoy was good in college, like every other quarterback in the NFL; unfortunately, like most quarterbacks that come out of college that have severe physical and mental limitations, mccoy isn't a good NFL quarterback.
WOW ! Thanks for letting us know Colt has SEVERE physical and mental limitations.... I never would have guessed that...
Hey Steeler fan... I think Big Ben has something for you...
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you keep providing these statements, but have done nothing to back up your claim that charlie batch and jon kitna are incapable of being starting quarterbacks;
Really..still stuck on Batch...well Steeler fan...if they were capable of being starters they would be...BUT they are Not...do you need a NFL list of QB starters and back up QB's about to retire..
now if you want to see your precious Batch be a starter...why don't you start a league for the.... I pee yellow for my fellow back up QB... that can't be a starter league...
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colt mccoy was good in college, like every other quarterback in the NFL; unfortunately, like most quarterbacks that come out of college that have severe physical and mental limitations, mccoy isn't a good NFL quarterback.
WOW ! Thanks for letting us know Colt has SEVERE physical and mental limitations.... I never would have guessed that...
Hey Steeler fan... I think Big Ben has something for you...
your entire argument is crafted around allegations of me being a steeler fan, which is pure conjecture on your part; but let's pretend for a second that this were true... then what would my ultimate goal be in suggesting the browns replace their quarterback that can't even average 6 yards per attempt with a much cheaper alternative that has averaged a full yard per attempt more over his career, as a backup, in offenses not catered for a quarterback to find easy success? if i believe charlie batch is a superior option to mccoy, why would i want a division rival to go with batch over mccoy?
basically, you are attempting to say that charlie bitch can't be our starting quarterback because you believe that i am a pittsburgh steelers fan, and because they are currently backups, behind better quarterbacks, which is why they are not starters. by them not being starters, they are thus not capable of being starting quarterbacks for any team in the league, including the cleveland browns, whose quarterback can't throw for more than 5.9 yards per attempt. connect the dots for me please.
Last edited by RiderofRohanB6; 01/22/12 06:24 PM.
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as far as why i think bosh is better than matt ryan, andy dalton and romo: i agree that dalton looked pretty good as a rookie, but obviously he doesn't have the track record that batch has so while i would certainly rather start a franchise with any of those three because they are younger, they also make stupid mistakes that a veteran qb wouldn't make.
I'm pretty sure you're just having a laugh, as no one with a shred of common sense would make this argument, but ...
Tony Romo: 77 games started, 96.9 rating, 20, 834 yards, 149 TD's, 72 INT's
Matt Ryan: 63 games started, 88.4 QB rating, 14,238 yards, 95 TD's, 46 INT's
Charlie Batch: 53 games started, 77.8 QB rating, 10,610 yards, 60 TD's, 48 INT's
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as far as why i think bosh is better than matt ryan, andy dalton and romo: i agree that dalton looked pretty good as a rookie, but obviously he doesn't have the track record that batch has so while i would certainly rather start a franchise with any of those three because they are younger, they also make stupid mistakes that a veteran qb wouldn't make.
I'm pretty sure you're just having a laugh, as no one with a shred of common sense would make this argument, but ...
Tony Romo: 77 games started, 96.9 rating, 20, 834 yards, 149 TD's, 72 INT's
Matt Ryan: 63 games started, 88.4 QB rating, 14,238 yards, 95 TD's, 46 INT's
Charlie Batch: 53 games started, 77.8 QB rating, 10,610 yards, 60 TD's, 48 INT's
romo has far and away the best stats of the three, but he also has laurent robinson, miles austin, and dez bryant as targets; you could make the argument for matt ryan over batch because of the discrepancy in touchdown passes, but comparing a starting quarterback (on a week-to-week basis) who is in a rhythm and has roddy white, julio jones, and tony gonzalez to a guy who is there to provide insurance to one of the most durable quarterbacks in the league based on statistics alone is a mistake in my opinion.
even if you made the case for romo, as stupid of mistakes he tends to make, or matt ryan, as poor as his deep ball is/as much as he doesn't take full advantage of having arguably one of the best receiving corps in the league to work with, all three are on a whole different level when compared to blaine gabbert or colt mccoy.
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romo has far and away the best stats of the three, but he also has laurent robinson, miles austin, and dez bryant as targets; you could make the argument for matt ryan over batch because of the discrepancy in touchdown passes, but comparing a starting quarterback (on a week-to-week basis) who is in a rhythm and has roddy white, julio jones, and tony gonzalez to a guy who is there to provide insurance to one of the most durable quarterbacks in the league based on statistics alone is a mistake in my opinion.
even if you made the case for romo, as stupid of mistakes he tends to make, or matt ryan, as poor as his deep ball is/as much as he doesn't take full advantage of having arguably one of the best receiving corps in the league to work with, all three are on a whole different level when compared to blaine gabbert or colt mccoy.
And yet, Charlie Batch is still a backup and that is not going to change. So just exactly what would be your point? 
"People who drink light 'beer' don't like the taste of beer; they just like to pee a lot."
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And yet, Charlie Batch is still a backup and that is not going to change. So just exactly what would be your point?
the point, as i explicitly stated from the beginning before it got lost in a sea of ad hominem attacks against me based on this assertion that i "wanted a steelers player therefore i must be a steelers fan", was that by bringing in troy smith the steelers will likely not resign batch (or possibly devin dixon, but i would guess batch), and the browns could cheaply bring in batch as a veteran quarterback while we go after a quarterback like ryan tannehill with our late first rounder, similar to what we tried to with jake delhomme.
i have no allegiance to charlie batch, i would be just as happy bringing in matt flynn or another quarterback through free agency to fill this void. and as a browns fan, i don't see how other browns fans would be opposed to bringing in virtually anyone to play instead of colt mccoy, who has proven only that college success doesn't translate to the NFL.
Last edited by RiderofRohanB6; 01/22/12 08:38 PM.
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We have our back up QB's in place already they are Wallace and McCoy. I doubt that Batch could overtake either of them. If the Squeelers cut him he will retire most likely I dont see any team having any interest in him esp the Browns. IMHO but our front office will either comfirm this or your point if what you say comes to pass.
If you need 3 years to be a winner you got here 2 years to early. Get it done Browns.
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So in one sentence you mention how Jon Kitna filled in well with Dallas and in the other sentence you talk about how great Dallas' QB is because of the weapons he has around him?
Blue ostriches on crack float on milkshakes between the sidewalk titans of gurglefitz. --YTown
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I opened up this thread and wondered how in hell we got over 35 replies since I last logged on on Friday. Now I know...
There is no level of sucking we haven't seen; in fact, I'm pretty sure we hold the patents on a few levels of sucking NOBODY had seen until the past few years.
-PrplPplEater
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So in one sentence you mention how Jon Kitna filled in well with Dallas and in the other sentence you talk about how great Dallas' QB is because of the weapons he has around him?
yes?
i never claimed that kitna didn't have great weapons around him, or that tony romo couldn't achieve success with lesser receivers. i would take romo ahead of kitna; the only difference is that kitna comes at a much cheaper cost (although i never said the browns should 'go after kitna', i don't think the cowboys are looking to get rid of one of the top backups in the league when romo seems to get injured somewhat frequently). charlie batch on the other hand will be a free agent, and has the skillset to lead the browns to the playoffs in my opinion, he is a proven winner with two super bowl rings.
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he is a proven winner with two super bowl rings.
man, you are right. remember when Charlie Batch flung that ball between 3 Cardinal defenders and hit Santonio on a line?
no, you don't remember that because he was probably craning his neck and moving around trying to see what happened from the sideline.
#gmstrong
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he is a proven winner with two super bowl rings.
man, you are right. remember when Charlie Batch flung that ball between 3 Cardinal defenders and hit Santonio on a line?
no, you don't remember that because he was probably craning his neck and moving around trying to see what happened from the sideline.
as a backup quarterback, it may not have been batch's actual duty to make that pass, but before the play was called, look at the game film. look at charlie batch on the sideline holding the playsheet, going over plays with roethlisberger and giving him the confidence that he needed to go out there and make the play happen.
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he is a proven winner with two super bowl rings.
man, you are right. remember when Charlie Batch flung that ball between 3 Cardinal defenders and hit Santonio on a line?
no, you don't remember that because he was probably craning his neck and moving around trying to see what happened from the sideline.
as a backup quarterback, it may not have been batch's actual duty to make that pass, but before the play was called, look at the game film. look at charlie batch on the sideline holding the playsheet, going over plays with roethlisberger and giving him the confidence that he needed to go out there and make the play happen.
yeah, you are right, that makes him proven winner 
PUHLEASE.. STOP with the Charlie Batch love...
#GMSTRONG
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Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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he is a proven winner with two super bowl rings.
man, you are right. remember when Charlie Batch flung that ball between 3 Cardinal defenders and hit Santonio on a line?
no, you don't remember that because he was probably craning his neck and moving around trying to see what happened from the sideline.
as a backup quarterback, it may not have been batch's actual duty to make that pass, but before the play was called, look at the game film. look at charlie batch on the sideline holding the playsheet, going over plays with roethlisberger and giving him the confidence that he needed to go out there and make the play happen.
yeah, you are right, that makes him proven winner
PUHLEASE.. STOP with the Charlie Batch love...
i'm not sure about you, but i am interested in bringing in players who want to win games, and have accolades to show for it. what's the worst that can happen by bringing in barlie batch to be our starting quarterback? can we do any worse than 4th overall pick in the draft, and if we were to do worse, wouldn't that actually be better because we would consequently have a higher draft pick and be in a position to give a rookie quarterback that we drafted in 2012 the starting job the following year (with a year of learning the offense under his belt before getting thrown to the wolves)?
Last edited by RiderofRohanB6; 01/23/12 03:34 PM.
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i'm not sure about you, but i am interested in bringing in players who want to win games, and have accolades to show for it.
I'm in lock step with you on that.. we just disagree on Batch.. he's a 37 year old guy who has had one solid year (or was it two) as a starter in detroit and nobody else picked him up to start again.
What's that tell you when, in a QB starved league, that NOBODY wanted him
Like I said, give it up on Batch....
#GMSTRONG
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Daniel Patrick Moynahan
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Damanshot
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What's that tell you when, in a QB starved league, that NOBODY wanted him.
well the steelers apparently wanted him, and while he was on their team they won two super bowls as the primary consultant and game manager to aid roethlisberger. just because other teams happened to have worse quarterbacks doesn't mean that deep down they weren't wishing they had batch as a starter; it was just that the steelers were able to grab him before the other teams and he apparently was enticed by their offer more than maybe settling for a starting role on a mediocre team.
i guess you could make the point that batch has more experience in that consultant type role rather than the starter, but i think his ability to be a great backup could translate over to his ability to lead a team on the field because it utilizes a lot of the same fundamental concepts and general knowledge of the game.
Last edited by RiderofRohanB6; 01/23/12 04:43 PM.
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Love Charlie Batch...the man, the player, the coach on the field...the backup.
But Charlie would never finish a 16 game season...he is good off the bench for maybe 3 or 4 weeks.
Any significant time...and Charlie goes to IR.
HACK
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Its really gonna suck seeing him beat us...
it will suck for him when Paxson ans Schaefering sprain his ankle
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Love Charlie Batch...the man, the player, the coach on the field...the backup.
But Charlie would never finish a 16 game season...he is good off the bench for maybe 3 or 4 weeks.
Any significant time...and Charlie goes to IR.
HACK
there may be some degree of truth to this statement, since he is on the older side so is less durable, but i also think a large component of that stems from the steelers weak offensive line, which causes their quarterbacks to take more shots from defenders; if the browns right side of the line was even average, they would have one of the best lines in the league so durability should be less of an issue in cleveland
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I just think you are wrong on this one....Charlie would be great on your sideline...and might even play really well when in the game...but you can not depend on him as a full time starter.
in 2009 Batch came in for Ben in KC.....handed the ball off a lot...completed a couple of passes.....everything looked fine...no major hits or sacks......on Monday it was found out Batch needed surgery..and was out for the last 6 weeks with a broken wrist.....and that was about a quarter...or handoffs.
I have seen every second of Charlie play since the Steelers signed him....yes..he is a capable backup...and I have enjoyed having him on my team....and felt comfortable with him coming into a game.....but he is not your starter anymore.
HACK
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well the steelers apparently wanted him,
not as a starter they didn't
#GMSTRONG
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Daniel Patrick Moynahan
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Stop. Feeding. The. Trolls.
Worst thread ever.
"If it weren't for my horse, I wouldn't have spent that year in college"
GO ROCKETS
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well the steelers apparently wanted him,
not as a starter they didn't
this is mostly true, but not entirely; when teams bring in a guy to be their backup quarterback there are certain job responsibilities that are outlined and one of them is that the quarterback must be capable of taking over the starting job if their current starter were to go down with injury, as is often the case in the NFL. in the case of pittsburgh, they had roethlisberger, a guy who was clearly the face of their franchise and starting quarterback; but to bring in a backup quarterback who can do a comparable job when that starter goes down is on the same scale of importance, and factoring how well batch does in a consultant role, he had more value to the steelers during their playoff runs than some of their players who saw significantly more on field playing time.
just look at the patriots; tom brady went down, and belicheck was ready to roll out matt castle who very easily could have lead them to the playoffs that year (weren't they 10-6?) with a pretty average supporting cast. castle may have been a backup at the time, but it is clear that he could have started for most teams, it was just that the patriots had a more viable option currently, and having that top tier backup allowed the patriots/steelers to have not only that insurance for their starter (and possibly take more risks with their starter as a result; just look at how often ben is willing to tuck and run with the ball and risk injury because he knows that if he goes down there is a guy that can take his place), but it also allows that team to prevent other teams from having that player go against them at the same time.
Last edited by RiderofRohanB6; 01/23/12 06:00 PM.
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whatever,, I don't want him here and my guess is you may be the only one that does..
#GMSTRONG
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Daniel Patrick Moynahan
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Damanshot
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I'm beginning to believe this RiderOfLohan is a stoolers fan.
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