DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum OL talk...

Just wanted to get some OL discussion goin....

Wanted to get a conversation goin like we did with Shurmur...and I want to focus on Lauvao first. He has taken the biggest brunt of the hate...but, before that, lets talk scheme and such.


First and foremost...Our OL has done a subpar job in the past year or so opening holes and getting push etc...We've spent a lot of time saying that, but I havent seen much thought as to why.

Our OL was almost all brought in here as a part of a power blocking scheme. We had Joe Thomas (who can chameleon as he's good regardless), Alex Mack, and Shaun Laovao, all brought in and most successful (save for Lauvao because he had played very little) under the power blocking scheme favored by Mangini, and now we employ a zone blocking scheme, and it was installed without an offseason.

Its a big switch, and a big switch in scheme, and I've spent some time watching some zone blocking scheme's in the past weeks because of whats been on TV. Houston runs it, and a good view of it was MNF and will be again on SNF. They never get a whole ton of push, but they open holes. I saw very little of the Houston OLers getting significant push, rather they angle well and clear out holes and find space for Foster and Foster uses that space well.

It is about creating space, but Houston doesnt do it by getting downfield in their zone blocking scheme...and it worked well for Foster. It seems like their job is more to draw everyone in and neutralize them by keeping them out of the lanes that they want the RB to take, and they do it well.

One issue we've had is that our OL hasnt been able to neutralize the LBs. We've struggled in our zone work, as it seems as though we use our power blocking still at the point of attack. Look at us on snape, we engage and lock up, zone blocking predicates that you takes whats the most dangerous at that spot and keep it back...If theres an LB and a DE say in the area, and the DLer isnt an immediate threat, you disengage and keep the LB neutralized which has been our weakness as LBs are stuffing holes and keeping our RBs bottled up mostly. Or our OLers arent getting a good pivot and turn to seal the hole. Its not about upfield, its about sealing, and that is a technique that isnt easy.

Now, as for our OL...Joe Thomas has been great in pass protection, but the zone blocking run blocking hasnt been his best point. While he has done a good job neutralizing, he has been mediocre to good in pivot and sealing. Look at a lot of our runs...you'll see the DE body showing in the hole or area that TRich wants to run to. And that has been the case with most of our guys, but its happened with Thomas too. He is very close to being back to elite there, but he has to do a better job of turning and sealing off that block.

Pinkston has in what ive noticed, spent too much time getting upfield. He seems to push his guy back (when he wins at the point of attack) but almost gets too far upfield and loses the seal of the hole as other players can fill that gap, or get into the gap that he leaves. They seem to get in behind him. Other times he gets stuck in the running lane, as he doesnt seal that hole.

Mack has made the most improvement this year I think as he has done a very good job in neutralizing, and has even been pretty good at angling and sealing.

Lauvao has improved as well...though hes not there yet. When we've run to the left, hes done a good job sealing his side with Schwartz, and keeping other defenders near the LOS from getting through. We dont often have a cutback lane that way...but thats more scheme IMO. Going at Shaun's side, it seems as though he's done a good job at pivoting and sealing...however, he hasnt been at his best in neutralizing as he's been stuck in the running lane a number of times which doesnt allow him to pivot and seal. He's been better, but not great yet. And pass blocking...Weeders has had great pockets for 2 straight games...

Schwartz has actually been good. Pass protection hasnt been his best as he's been pushed back often, but not in the last two games...He's made great progress there. As a run blocker hes sealed off the weak side great when they run away from him. Running towards him however he hasnt got much push which has had a tendency to leave him stuck in the running lane more than you'd like, which has left him unable to pivot and seal.


All things considered. We've actually ran pretty well, and TRich has done a good job finding space. He danced a little too much against the Giants, and will learn quickly when to duck your head in and push, as the OL can only hold and seal for so long because of the fluidity of movement.

Whats your take on the OL, am I wrong? Am I on to something? Could our OL really make steady improvements as they have been and turn out very well, or are our guys beyond hope.

i think we've made improvements...Weeders has made our pass protection look VERY good. but...we've had some GREAT pockets of late, including great passing lanes.

Run blocking is a work in progress...I think its more about pivoting and sealing more than it is the point of attack. We've been worse at sealing than winning the initial push. Or we get a good seal, but bad push. It seems to be one or the other, and in time, we'll have that learn and i feel like its a click thing. You get it right a couple times and it clicks...aha! thats how its supposed to look and feel. Got it. Lets go.


I think that by the end of this season, our OL could be amongst the best in the NFL.
*TRich can help that too*

The Browns don't run alot of zone blocking,and that may be why they are not good at it when they try.

whatre they runnin then?

What I don't understand is why you would get Lauvao and Pinkston at the same time?

Pinkston has better footwork and slightly more agile for this blocking scheme and Lauvao is a completly different type of blocker and his agility and footwork make him more of a power type blocker.

It's like they were drafting G's to play on two different OL schemes.

I don't watch enough NFL teams to say for certain,but I would assume all of them try to run zone now and again.Especially the outside,or the stretch zone.When run properly it's extremely difficult to stop.
Watch the guards,in particular Lauvao.He pulls frontside and wraps,that's power.He pulls frontside and kicks,that's trap.Power and trap have been mainstays in oline play since some crazy SOB first put them into the wing-T.
So what scheme do the BRowns run?
They run zone,yes,but moreso they run trap,they run power,they run dive and sometimes they run a power sweep.
Sounds a heck of lot like wing-T to me.To be politically correct we'll call it a power scheme,with some zone and any other play that's been successful thrown in.

One thing ive noticed is that Mack and Lauvao have been awesome at lead blocking on screens and plays where they can get out ahead of the play. When theyve been able to get out ahead, and theyve been able to to block for someone that got past the LOS, theyve done an amazing job.

Yes.
Lauvao has gotten a bad rap on here.He's real good at moving and blocking,he isn't fast,but he seems to always be under control.Good balance I guess you'd say.

i'm actually okay w/ the o-line.. you will never get 5 all pro's at one time..

the only thing I ask is that they try and get a more consistent push when we run.

The Giants game was the best our O-Line has played all season. Those tosses were working quite well.

I think our OL would look a lot better if we didn't run a predictable, at times unconscionable, offense.

I have been impressed by Swartz a few times, ending up near the ball and getting well down the field. He seems to have the "want to" as he gains experience. Guard thing mentioned is weird. Simpler run blocking scheme, maybe with a little more split might help.

The O-line looks like they starting to gel. They ahead of the game in pass protection and catching up on run blocking. I think Schwartz has made great strides the last few games. They say he's intelligent, so I think we will see him get better and improve.