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Even if Weeden is screwing the pooch it is still on Shurmur.It is his job to have the team ready to pla. He does not get a pass on that. I have seen enough to surmise that, while some of the players deserve their fair share of the blame, the coaching is poor.
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There's disfunction in the coaching staff and players.
This is simple.
First to counter DJ..TR is not a problem, the way he's being utilized and the personnel packages that are in are a detriment.
Opposing D's know the Browns use a particular package 75% of the tme so they jump the formation 3 out of 4 times in a series.
The Browns are using anything outside to get TR going ..plus you have one OG who cannot consistantly get outside.
Next the HC/OC are not working together to put the QB in a comfort azone and let the guy do what he does best ,sling the ball.
Time managment and game management( short yardage etc) are backwards in terms of gettign correct play/package in on time and utilizing mismatches.
The HC is over his head and it appears he isn;t on the same page with his players nor assistant coaches.
Too much confusion but guess what?
We've seen this mess before with different regimes have we not??
What happened after that? People started working for their own agendas and it spreaded dowjn to the performance on the field.
Now just to make this clear, players have to execute..but when your QB suddenly starts regressing after he was progressing something is up.
Weeden as much said whatever is called he runs it but he has recently said he needs to check down.
But he is frustrated in how there are too many things in his ear.
TR is not happy being used as a two down back.
All anyone has to do is look at what Shurmur did in St.Louis to Bradford and U get a look see at whats happening here.
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j/c
Do I want to keep Shurmur?
I'd have to say that at this point I don't feel I have enough information to make a career changing decision like that. I don't know if he's coming to some of these play calling decisions because he's just a poor coach or he's trying to cover for the deficiencies that he knows certain players have. If I was in Berea every day I have no doubt I could make a decision fairly quickly or at least I hope I could.
Too many guys on here think they know exactly what is going on when in reality none of us do.
Weeden was obviously confused by the Ravens Defense on Sunday. Is that the coach's fault or is it his? I don't know. I seriously doubt anyone on here does either. Although certain guys will tell you they do. But they really don't.
Who is to blame for the delayed relay of plays into the QB? Is it Shurmur? Childress? Weeden? Other teams do it the way we do without problems, why can't we? The tendency is to blame the head coach and he certainly should get the lion's share of the blame. But I doubt it's all his fault.
All the questions we have are questions the GM, President and Owner will have to answer by the end of the season. If you trust them then this will all work itself out. At this point I'd have to say, given the limited data I have about the decision makers regarding football operations, the only one I'd trust unequivocally with making a football decision such as keeping/firing the HC would be Heckert. And who knows if he'll be around come decision time. I do know that firing Shurmur now makes very little sense. I mean, when was the last time a mid season firing ended up doing anything good for the team in question?
"People who drink light 'beer' don't like the taste of beer; they just like to pee a lot."
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Firing a head coach in mid-season has one singular purpose, which is the same as lancing a wound: You're doing it to relieve the pressure. I don't know that things have gotten so toxic that the pressure has gotten to the point where the players aren't able to function.
We're inching that way, though.
Now it doesn't take a Browns executive to understand that Shurmur's team...and it IS his team...are having far too many idiotic and pre-season-esque mistakes. When you get called for back-to-back penalties then have to take a timeout because you can't get a play into your QB, well, that's obviously a major issue. In-game decisions such as punting the ball at your opponents 41 down by a few should be a no-brainer decision, but it turned out that Shurmur just had no brain.  He's taking heavy fire from all around the league, and again, it doesn't take an NFL executive to read what that means.
It'll take a Helluva turnound for Shurmur to save his gig, and if he gets fired he'll have earned it. In his second year there have been far too many screwups and that falls right onto his lap.
Maybe you don't have enough info to indict Shurmur, but I'm betting Haslam does.
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy.
Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
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Cleveland Browns: Analyzing The 4th & 2 Decision 18 hours ago by Ryan Ruiz 0 17 4 0 Share22 David Richard-US Presswire With just under five minutes to go in the fourth quarter, Pat Shurmur decided to go for it from his own 28 yard line. This decision should just about seal his fate as the coach of Cleveland Browns. Let’s dig deep in to this situation and try to figure out his rationale. In the first half, the Baltimore Ravens could do anything they wanted against the Cleveland defense. This was not the case in the second half. A different Browns defense stifled the Ravens on just about every opportunity in the second half until Shurmur’s genius idea to go for it on 4th and 2 from his own 28 yard line. Now granted, the Ravens did put one good previous drive together to take the lead 22-15. However, there were over four minutes left in the game, Cleveland was only down by seven (one score), had two timeouts left, a fired up hopeful loud crowd behind them, the two minute warning and a Cleveland “D” that would have done anything they possibly could of to get the ball back. Punting wasn’t the sexiest thing to do, but it was right thing to do at the time. Going for it on fourth down backed up behind your own thirty is something that you would do when playing your buddy in the Madden ’13 video game, not in a real life NFL game. By making that terrible decision, Shurmur was basically waving the white flag if Cleveland didn’t get the first down. And, that’s just what happened. Brandon Weeden air mailed a throw at least three feet over Greg Little‘s head and that was the ball game. So lets think about this, there are two decisions to be made there: punt the ball, have them get it back in their own territory and get a stop with maybe just under two minutes to play with a touchdown to tie OR go for it, not get the first down, give them great field position for an easy field goal that now makes it a two possession game. Which would you choose? It’s unbelievable how the game quickly turned on the Browns. After the Cleveland defense making stop after stop and Phil Dawson knocking down kick after kick, you got the sense that Baltimore was not invincible. It was like when Balboa first made Drago bleed. There was hope and Cleveland was fighting with every little bit they could muster. It went from pulling off an upset to losing very badly by terrible decision making. In the NFL, players should lose football games, not coaches. The players are the ones with the helmets and pads on running all over the field. By Shurmur continuing to put his players in virtually impossible situations to overcome, of course they are going to fail. Needless to say, with a 2-7 record, the Browns have failed miserably. Ryan Ruiz – Cleveland Browns Writer web page
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy.
Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
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So lets think about this, there are two decisions to be made there: punt the ball, have them get it back in their own territory and get a stop with maybe just under two minutes to play with a touchdown to tie OR go for it, not get the first down, give them great field position for an easy field goal that now makes it a two possession game. Which would you choose?
Unless it's the divisional/playoff/SB game on the line with under 2:00 to go,U PUNT THE BALL..
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I've been in Shurmur's corner since the hire. I scratched my head at it a little bit, but I came to the conclusion that I didnt blame Shurmur for malaise in STL, in fact they were borderline relevant despite almost no talent and what turned out to be a bum head coach in Spags. I admit there's cracks in the armor here. By throwing on 3rd and short almost (actually this week...EVERY) every time is baffling. It shows no trust. Then it seems as though EVERY time we get to 3rd and long...we run the ball. With a QB that doesnt get sacked. You do that if you think the QB is going to be sacked and you lose more yardage...but we dont get sacked. It shows no trust in your QB or pass game. Except, in short yardage situations you put it all on the pass game. ummm...what?  Our offense seems to have the same issues it had last year. We can sustain drives til about midfield and then it stalls out. Our defense is incredibly passive. We seem to blitz less than any team in football at this point...after doing it alot. What concerns me the most. Is that even in wins. We seem to be losing faith in our team more every week. With each game that we play we seem to do less on defense and less on offense too, in terms of creativity and things that can be successful. We tend to stick to the same plays and same sets rather than expanding. I dont obviously know this to be true, but outsider perspective says to me that we do less later in the season. We dialed up blitzes like crazy in the beginning of the year and were getting hits and sacks like crazy...we havent done that since...why? Where I am...I think. I'm still not dead on Shurmur...I'm wavering, but I dont think that I like Childress, Tabor, or Jauron. Well...I know I dont like Tabor, Childress...I thought he'd be good for Trent, but clearly he hasn't been (although Trent has played well...we haven't gone run heavy like we should be), and Dick Jauron I just dont think has it. His defenses have always been disruptive and force turnovers but cant stop the run and have a hard time getting off the field on 3rd down (I live in Bills territory so I see every game and this is what almost always happened). I think that Shurmur is no nonsense and has potential. I think he's far from a finished product. He's learning and needs to improve. I dont like our coordinators.
"It has to start somewhere
It has to start somehow
What better place than here?
What better time than now?"
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Do I think Shurmur is toast? Yes. I do.
But as I said previously, name me one time that firing the coach in mid season did anything positive for the team. And I mean something other than winning one game with the new "interim" HC. Maybe there is an instance of this happening but I can't remember it.
I guess I just have a hard time believing that a guy who has been, basically, raised to be a football coach could make some of the head scratching decisions that he's made without some background reasoning that we're not aware of.
I also wish that I trusted Banner to do the right thing as far as the team is concerned and not get rid of Heckert and then try and become the football decision making guy that I think he really wants to be. But I don't. Hope I'm wrong in that regard.
Maybe our next coach will be the "one". I can tell you who it won't be. Not Gruden. Not Cowher. In fact I'd be surprised if our upcoming HC is the head man at his current place of employment, be it college or pro. We'll see soon enough, I guess.
Just not sure I'm up to another ride on this merry-go-round.......
"People who drink light 'beer' don't like the taste of beer; they just like to pee a lot."
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One thing I am curious about is PS's relationship with his assistants...I never hear much about how they work together ,until now thats there's mishap in communication.
Something doesn' seem right to me.
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Quote:
So lets think about this, there are two decisions to be made there: punt the ball, have them get it back in their own territory and get a stop with maybe just under two minutes to play with a touchdown to tie OR go for it, not get the first down, give them great field position for an easy field goal that now makes it a two possession game. Which would you choose?
Unless it's the divisional/playoff/SB game on the line with under 2:00 to go,U PUNT THE BALL..
I think this may be one of very few times all three of us agree!
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
#gmstrong
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Or perhaps there is the possibility that Weeden is screwing the pooch on occasion and since none of us really knows what is being called or what his progressions should be we put the blame on the coach when some of it should be going the player's way?
Naw.....let's fire another coach. Cowher or Gruden will save us..... 
Is Weeden making mistakes.... yep he sure is, but his mistakes don't make Pat a bad coach. Pat just is not a good Coach. I don't ever remember calling for a change at Head coach before. I have always said give the guy more time. HOWEVER this time giving our Head Coach more time is just going to set us back even more 
I AM ALWAYS RIGHT... except when I am wrong.
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Interesting that he's ranked higher than Andy Reid, Marvin Lewis, Norv Turner (no surprise) Rex Ryan and Jason Garrett. Kind of surprising. Despite leading off their review of Shurmur with this point. "His in-game decisions drive us crazy."...
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jc
Midseason Coach Power Rankings
Some will be surprised
http://www.nfl.com/photoessays/0ap1000000091266#photo=12
Not too surprised, because he does have this team playing hard and puting up a fight each game, but it looks like he might be losing this team, and if that takes hold it'll all be downhill.
Owner change mid-season puts a lot of uncertainty on the team, and add losing and people will start to wonder "what-if", if we were winning those close games, or even more of them, then it would all flow, but we are losing, and certain game decisions are becoming glaring. Those decisions may not be the whole reason we lost those games, but they will become the polarizing reason when people try to make sense of it all.
We don't have to agree with each other, to respect each others opinion.
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To state the obvious, we took T Rich 3rd in the draft, a big bruising back who should plow one yard in his sleep with little blocking.
To state it even more, can't the big gangly red head QB follow the center for one yard also?
And they can't figure out a plan to run?????
Theres 2 right there
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Quote:
jc
Midseason Coach Power Rankings
Some will be surprised
http://www.nfl.com/photoessays/0ap1000000091266#photo=12
Not surprised at all really. Yeah, he's made some head-scratching decisions and there have been issues with game-day organization. However, I've seen way more plays to be made on offense this year than last. Our youth has hurt us when it comes to execution and finishing games. We're still a bad football team (2-7 is what it is). However, if we can sort out the organizational issues and give these young players time to grow into their respective roles and hone their skills, who knows how good we could be down the road.
[color:"white"]"Never argue with a fool, onlookers may not be able to tell the difference."
-- Mark Twain [/color]
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Shurmur is ranked 21st. Here are the guys below him: 22. Rex Ryan - might get fired. 23. Marvin Lewis - should get fired, won't because owner is cheap. 24. Mike Munchak - might get fired, owner recently said: Quote:
"In my 50 years of owning an NFL franchise, I am at a loss to recall a regular season home game that was such a disappointment for myself, and fans of the Titans,'' Adams told The Tennessean. "We were grossly out-coached and outplayed from start to finish today.
"At this time, all aspects of the organization will be closely evaluated, including front office, coaches and players over the next seven games. If performance and competitiveness does not improve, I will look at all alternatives to get back to having the Titans become a playoff and championship football team."
25. Norv Turner - likely to get fired if Chargers don't make the playoffs.
26. Chan Gailey - likely to get fired.
27. Ron Rivera - might get fired. Team has regressed greatly.
28. Andy Reid - likely to get fired.
29. Mike Mularkey - Blaine Gabbert is his QB. First year on the job. How did he get another head job?
30. Saints' Interim Coaches - Tough circumstances.
31. Jason Garrett - likely to get fired. Only coach he and And Reid can compete with Shurmur on the poor gameday decisions.
32. Romeo Crennel - likely to get fired.
So Shumur is 21st, but almost all of the guys below him are on the hot seat. I count six slam dunk coaching changes (Shurmur, Turner, Gailey, Reid, Garrett, and Crennell) with three others possible (Ryan, Munchak, and Rivera). That's pretty crazy. If I were to rank those nine coaching jobs it would go like this:
1. San Diego - You live in San Diego, Rivers is a competent QB, anyone will look good after Norv.
2. Carolina - Cam Newton.
3. Philadelphia - Need a QB, everything else is in place.
4. Cleveland - Might have QB in place, young team with talent, owner willing to pay.
5. Tennessee - Might have QB in place (if he stays healthy), talent to work with.
6. Buffalo - Talent, need a QB.
7. Kansas City - A mess. Pioli might get fired. No QB.
8. New York - Have to deal with the Sanchez/Tebow nightmare.
9. Dallas - Al Davi...I mean Jerry Jones.
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1. San Diego - You live in San Diego
You probably could've just stopped there... 
Crowded elevators smell different to short people...
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7. Kansas City - A mess. Pioli might get fired. No QB.
A mess? That team has a lot of talent all over the place.
Charles, Bowe, Baldwin, Moeaki, ..Hillis :P
I think their offense is a QB away. They are just stuck with Cassel and You know who.
I'd try and pry Eric Berry away from them if they go on a fire sale. 
Am I the only one that pronounces hyperbole "Hyper-bowl" instead of "hy-per-bo-le"?
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A mess meaning the fans are revolting against the team.
(Bowe will be gone.)
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Quote:
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7. Kansas City - A mess. Pioli might get fired. No QB.
A mess? That team has a lot of talent all over the place.
Charles, Bowe, Baldwin, Moeaki, ..Hillis :P
I think their offense is a QB away. They are just stuck with Cassel and You know who.
I'd try and pry Eric Berry away from them if they go on a fire sale.
I'd send them a 6th round pick for Berry and Bowe ...... 
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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Quote:
Or perhaps there is the possibility that Weeden is screwing the pooch on occasion and since none of us really knows what is being called or what his progressions should be we put the blame on the coach when some of it should be going the player's way?
Naw.....let's fire another coach. Cowher or Gruden will save us.....
I posted the stat from the article above on Monday... of 9 3rd downs of 4 yards or less we threw the ball every time.. and 3 or 4 of those were 3rd and 1.... now an argument can be made that Weeden threw to the wrong guy or made a bad throw but he didn't call the pass plays.... rather than plowing forward for a yard with your #3 pick, he put the ball in Weeden's hands...
yebat' Putin
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Quote:
Or perhaps there is the possibility that Weeden is screwing the pooch on occasion and since none of us really knows what is being called or what his progressions should be we put the blame on the coach when some of it should be going the player's way?
Naw.....let's fire another coach. Cowher or Gruden will save us.....
I posted the stat from the article above on Monday... of 9 3rd downs of 4 yards or less we threw the ball every time.. and 3 or 4 of those were 3rd and 1.... now an argument can be made that Weeden threw to the wrong guy or made a bad throw but he didn't call the pass plays.... rather than plowing forward for a yard with your #3 pick, he put the ball in Weeden's hands...
And then goes on and tells the media he didn't want an interception inside the red zone, showing he doesn't trust the same guy he counted on to get the first.
We don't have to agree with each other, to respect each others opinion.
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No way Marvin Lewis is a worse coach than Shurmer. No way Reid is a worse coach than Shurmer.
There is no level of sucking we haven't seen; in fact, I'm pretty sure we hold the patents on a few levels of sucking NOBODY had seen until the past few years.
-PrplPplEater
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I find it ironic that PS was noted by developing Bradford and to some degree Weeden.
But he fact is PS doesn't know how to handle big armed QB's.
In this case he's not using TR to take the pressure off BW.
Game to game he is as inconsistant as the rookies are ,which makes this worse.
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Quote:
Radio Interview
In other news, the sun will rise in the morning, and set at night.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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