DawgTalkers.net Forums The Archives 2013 NFL Season NFL Draft (2013) Scouting the TE class

Chris Gragg put on a show yesterday: by FAR best forty (4.5), best vertical (37.5), best broad jump (125), among best 3cone and still a respectable, middle of the road 18 reps

V.McDonald also had an impressive combine with great size/speed/strength mix

Sims showed some surprising athleticism

Eifert should be the celar cut no1 TE, after owning Ertz pretty much everywhere, and he's the "better" blocker on film to boot

I got to see some of it last night.

Gragg looked great as an athlete. Definitely not an inline TE but could be great as a H-back. Don't know if he has the me mentality but wow would he look good as a FB.

Eifert owned the day. He's unquestionably the #1 TE and its not close. Fluid athlete. Fast. Good explosion. He going to be very good consistent probowl type guy.

He was fast. After that he was good but just another guy IMO.

Eifert in the Red Zone WILL be a beast! That guy can get up there and pull balls down. I'd be ok with trading down to a spot more in line with his ranking and take him. Maybe picking up a #2 in the deal. Eifert through the air and TR on the ground in the RZ would be quite acceptable to me!

Gordon, Little, Benjamin, and Eifert?

Yes please.

After the first couple of guys, I really didnt see anything that wowed me enough to spend anything beyond maybe a 5th on the TE position. I think the best bang for buck value will be in free agency.

Just watched some Nick Kasa and Vance McDonald

Kasa: Seems like a decent receiver, but doesn't look as athletic as he's hyped to be. Pretty terrible reach blocker and gets no movement. Doesn't move his feet and doesn't use his hands, he just grabs his guy and hopes it is enough. Based on what I saw I would not draft him in the top 5 rounds and not sure I would at all to be honest

V.McDonald: Oh boy, this dude is hyped as a Top 100 selection? Looks like Taylor Thompson all over again. Where to start....I haven't seen him line up as an inline blocker ONCE, he's mostly lined up in the slot as a WR and either catching screens from there or blocking on the move. He has terrible hands, at least "inconsistent" as I've seen him drop or double clutch 3-4 simple screens in 2 games. He caught at least 50% of his passes on screens btw and I haven't seen him run even 5 routes. On the positive side, he seems to be a tough dude who likes the physical aspect of the game, so he likes to block although it's wild and not always coordinated, little technique, but the willingness is there. Body language is good too.
All that said, he's a MAJOR project and I hope we aren't the dumb team to draft him in the 3rd or 4th round. Maybe a 6th/7th flyer because the athleticism and toughness is there, but you have to start from scratch with him and I don't know if he'll make it simply because of his hands...I just don't see it, he's ALL hype.

Here's Grossi chiming in. Makes Kasa sound more promising than you do, Django. But I think I'll live by your assessment...

Grossi on the tight end situation

The Morning Kickoff …

The overlooked need: Rob Chudzinski played tight end and coached tight ends. As an offensive coordinator, he made tight ends integral players, if not stars, in his offense.

Now as head coach of the Browns, Chudzinski views the tight end as an even more crucial element in NFL offenses.

“I think the position has grown in importance over the last 10 years,” Chudzinski said last week at the NFL scouting combine in Indianapolis. “You look at the type of guys that are coming out in college and you’re seeing so many more guys who are athletic, receiver types. So the game’s evolved in that way. You want those versatile type guys who can do everything.”

Atlanta coach Mike Smith, who is waiting with bated breath for future Hall of Fame tight end Tony Gonzalez to postpone retirement one last year, put the position in a different perspective.

“It’s like in a chess game,” Smith said. “The tight end position is becoming like the queen. You can move it all around the board and you can use it to your advantage. It’s not like a rook or a bishop. You get a lot of great matchups with the athleticism of the tight ends. It creates concerns for defenses in terms of who you’re going to put on them.”

Both Super Bowl teams – Baltimore and San Francisco – used two tight ends as integral players in their offenses. New England has tailored its offense to the position the past couple seasons because of the emergence of Rob Gronkowski and Aaron Hernandez.

The Browns? Chudzinski looks at his roster and sees only one tight end under contract, Jordan Cameron. Ben Watson and Alex Smith are free agents and unlikely to be re-signed.

Chudzinski has to load up on tight ends. It is the No. 1 position of need on the Browns’ offense.

A refresher: Remember the year Kellen Winslow Jr. had when Rob Chudzinski was Browns offensive coordinator in 2007?

It was the only great season of Winslow’s career: 82 receptions, 1,106 yards and five touchdowns. Winslow made the trip to the Pro Bowl after San Diego’s Antonio Gates withdrew because of injury.

That was the fourth of eight consecutive Pro Bowl berths for Gates. Gates already had established himself as the premier AFC tight end of his time when Norv Turner became San Diego head coach in 2007. Turner, now the Browns offensive coordinator, worked Gates for an average of 62 catches and eight touchdowns over the next six seasons.

Yes, the tight end position will see a resurgence under the Chudzinski/Turner regime.

One of Chudzinski’s under-radar hirings to his coaching staff was Jon Embree as tight ends coach. Embree coached the position with the Chiefs and Redskins before returning to his alma mater, University of Colorado, as head coach.

When you handicap where the Browns might look to replenish their stock at tight end, you have to start with Embree.

“College coaches have some insight on guys they’ve coached, guys they’ve played against and guys they’ve recruited, so certainly in the grand scheme it’s another piece of the puzzle. It’s a bonus,” Chudzinski said of Embree.

Remember the name: Nick Kasa was a heavily recruited, high school Parade All-American defensive end when he signed to play at Colorado. He struggled for three years on defense and asked Embree for a new position midway through his junior year. Embree switched him to tight end.

Prior to his senior season, Kasa became the project of CU tight ends coach J.D. Brookhart, the former University of Akron head coach.

“I watched a lot of film of (Rob) Gronkowski with Coach Brookhart,” Kasa said at the combine.

In his first season as a tight end, Kasa had 25 catches for 391 yards and a team-high 15.6 yards per catch. It earned him an invitation to the Senior Bowl, which led to an invite to the NFL combine.

There, the 6-6, 269-pounder turned in a respectable clocking of 4.71 in the 40. That showing was fifth-best among the record 19 tight ends at the combine, and kept Kasa’s stock on the rise. His in-line blocking was a strength at CU, but Kasa’ 40 time reinforced what Embree already knew – Kasa can be a downfield receiver, as well.

“I had no idea this was coming,” Kasa said. “A year ago when I was playing on defense still I was almost planning to finish up my college career and be done with football. The switch to tight end really opened the doors to me and it brought back the love of the game to me. It was kind of a revelation.

“My size and that ability in the run game really helps me with the things I can do. And the speed I can maintain at that size. The league is changing. The tight end is becoming more important in offenses.”

Without a second-round pick, the Browns probably can’t get around to picking a tight end until the middle rounds. Before the combine, Kasa was projected for the fourth or fifth round. At the combine, he renewed acquaintenances with Embree. They didn’t have to exchange cell phone numbers.

Django, you ever check out Furstenberg, from Maryland, by any chance?

Wondering if he'd be a good late round pickup.

Having watched a lot of him, I think he's very athletic with good hands and a willing, if not great, blocker.. his numbers were severely hampered by Maryland losing their 1st, 2nd, 3rd, and 4th string QBs this year.

And the last tight end that came out of Maryland who was deemed a workout warrior and just athletic was Vernon Davis...

Now before anybody goes nuts.. I'm not saying that Furstenburg is the next Vernon Davis... but he could be... but he's probably not... though there is a chance... but it's a slim chance... but it is possible.

Thanks, DC! 5th or 6th rounder?

Philosophical question. Drafting a mid round TE (or a 1st rounder for that matter) it is hard to find a guy who is fast, has good hands and is a great blocker. How do you prioritize?

Do you want a big fast guy that could really add to the passing game but is a liability in the run game or do you prefer a big slow guy with good hands who really only helps in the passing game in the red zone and to help move the chains on 3rd down but is a devastating blocker in the run game?

Probably... he might even be available as a UDFA... I think his combine numbers will be enough to get him drafted on the 3rd day though.

Me want Gronk.

The only thing he does better than blocking is partying.

And in the passing game he's a sixth grade receiver playing in the third grade football game at recess.

Ah the TEs this year. Very good group.

Eifert- the best this year. It's not as close as I thought it would be either.
Ertz- really wanted him to be the top guy, but he doesn't have th downfield speed needed to be great. Solid though.
McDonald- really like a lot about him. Reminds me of Gates quite a bit. Same size and athleticism. One knock would be he seems to body catch or double catch some throws.
Kelce- easily my favorite, right now. Anxious to see how well he runs. The best all around TE in this class. Does everything well.
Sims- not as high on him as you are Django. He does pass block well, and has good hands, and is way more athletic then he looks on film, but his run blocking, from what I've watched just isn't as good as I've read about.
Kasa- I see the potential here but he does have a ways to go. Still very raw. But could be a poor mans Gronk, has that kind of size and athleticism.
Williams- very good in the run game and offers some receiving skills but strictly a short yardage guy.

There are a lot of the tweener TE/WR guys this year and they could help us, but as for my personal preference I'd rather my TE be able to do both, so I limited my views to those type of guys. One guy I am anxious to see work out is Jack Doyle from Western Kentucky, he could be a sleeper.

looks like Watson n Smith are not going to be signed by us. Leaving Cameron (Smelley is listed as a TE but I think he's a FB). More than probable is that we will be adding a TE from FA and Draft???

2nd round seems to be the spot that a lot will be going. If we do not have a trade back thing we won't have a 2nd rounder. 3rd rounder??? All depends on the run. I am unable to study the draft as much as years past but I've been very intrigued by the Stanford TE...not the popular one but the 2nd guy. Raw (a theme of this draft) but pretty sure he is 6'8" got decent speed n pretty good hands. I just see him as a big time Miss match for the Red Zone n a possible TD machine...if only we had good coaching for TE's with us Browns But definitely a lot of good ones out there just not top 15. I did like the kid from Notre Dame. Any news on Finley being a Cap hit?

TE tend to drop on draft day...I'd be surprised if more than 3 are drafted before we pick at 68

We also have Gronkowsli signed to a contract .... but I'm not sure if the coaching staff sees anything they like in him or not.

Do you not think Gaven Escobar warrants a look?

Quote:

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but I've been very intrigued by the Stanford TE...not the popular one but the 2nd guy. Raw (a theme of this draft) but pretty sure he is 6'8" got decent speed n pretty good hands.

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Levine Toilolo.. he is 6'8" 260 but his 40 time at the combine was like 4.8 and 4.75.. he doesn't have decent speed, at least he didn't show it at the combine, he could always play faster than that. I find it odd that he's leaving since Ertz is leaving, he would be a primary target on the team next year and could really improve his stock by staying at Stanford.. maybe he doesn't trust the offense or the QB to make him look good?

My bad on the miss lead of decent speed. Should have said decent speed for 6'8" guy...but key to me for Red Zone was his size n hands that I saw.

Coming out...a lot of these guys - the family desperately needs the money. Minimum wage is what like 380k? Even that can help a family - shame they are now 2 percenters n are going to get taxed to the kazoo. The family I'm sure could use that money more than the Gov. not to get political or anything. Just feel bad for desperate people out there.

Django in this draft? With talent moving up from a Normal slot. Also the NFL is valuing the TE position more n more. Odds are there will be more than 3 taken especially if there is a run...3 might be taken in the first round??? Earlier than 15...I doubt it. Same with OG although many have the Titans taking OT.

JMHO

With so many needs and so few picks, why in the world would they even consider a TE with any selection.

I hate a TE selection on a TE heavy team, ... they should have just kept Evan Moore anyway.

You should start a topic on scouting the offensive GUARD class.

Did you see the Pittsburg game where our O-line had to hold on 3 straight plays and the 4th after it was over you probably went " they should have held".

I tell ya, this team needs to Trade Down and gather 2+ more picks in the top 200 selections. Then you could Maybe talk about a tight end, somewhere.

But WHY?! Because who are you gonna get who will be able to make the team.

If you get a top player it will cost a high pick and it's not worth wasting a high pick on that lousy position because in 2013 its not a game changer.

I'd rather they take a QB, if they get 7 or 8 Qb's maybe one of them will Pan Out.

And at least with QB's you can always trade them after some team has an injury.

We sure as heck aren't tight end heavy. Or at least not for long.

I don't think anyone's saying we should draft a TE at all costs. But if the best value on the big board is a TE when we're up, we should pull the trigger.

Same goes for guard. Start a topic & we will come.

Evan Moore just an FYI was not let go by these guys...last year before they took over. The great Evan Moore last year who caught 1 pass for 6 yards while on the Eagles??? I know it was a big time mistake. Lets put it this way...if we wanted him we could probably get him for Marecic, for a 2018 7th round pick. Not to be insulting or anything - btw I really liked the kid - but he is nowhere close to being an Impact guy that got away n to get him back would be very easy! He's on the Eagles...the guy who cut him is the OC there. We could get him for spittle or in our case Marecic

JMHO - we'll probably have a new TE by this time tomorrow

I liked his body placement n catching ability.
He was not good in the middle...TE make their living in the middle he was scared.
He was not a good blocker...he has the size he didn't spend time in the gym cause he wanted to label himself as a WR more than TE mentally never made the switch to TE.
He was slow. Scared, weak n Slow just is not what NFL TE are made of. That just might be his problem.
JMHO

The facts, as I see them are, Watson and Smith are gone, Only Cameron is under contract. Chud and Turner have an affinity for the TE position. That would suggest that at least one free agent will be added. There would be a need to take at least one TE in the draft. I can't envision where the Browns can get one of the TE guys graded for the first round or second round. Depending on whose rankings you like Eifert, Ertz and Escobar, maybe McDonald will be gone when the Browns pick in the 3rd. If McDonald or Kelce were available one or the other could be the pick. If 3 is too rich for this FO then Simms or Kasa later could be the target. I think Kasa could be the target in round 5. I don't think his blocking is as bad as described earlier, althougth the only tape I've seen is the Washingtion St/Arizona St video. Actually I think he's more of a project as a receiver. Only catching 25 passes as a senior for Colorado. At no. 3 on the TE depth chart this would be acceptable, IMO.