DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Browns Sign CB Kevin Barnes

I agree, I'd like another good corner myself. I don't have a good feeling about Grimes. My feeling is if our offer is similar to the falcons offer, why wouldn't he simply stay put? I would. You know the team, coaches. Your team is a SB contender heading in to the season.


I guess the fact is you can't fill all of your needs in FA. We seem to be on track to fixing the backer position. We've improved the D line, and brought in a couple of TE players who should provide depth and blocking behind Jordon who will be our main TE threat in the passing game.

FA isn't over yet, so we may still get a better CB, and thern there is the draft, If not Millner, it is a deep draft for corners. Maybe we hit a 3rd or 4th rounder and get a guy who steps up and plays better than his draft position.


I am really hoping Millner is there. Not only does he fill a need. He isn't a reach by any standard.

True, we don't need to fill every need via FA and I'm not a big fan of it anyway. It's just the fact that CB is now our biggest need along with FS and there were a handful of good, in their prime upgrades available for relatively (compared to other FAs) low cost...that has me second guessing a bit.

Another thing to keep in mind: even if Milliner is gone, the value of not only the entire draft but round 1 might be at CB, so even with a big CB need and Milliner gone we can trade down and grab one of Rhodes, Trufant or Banks later in the 1st and maybe get a 2nd rounder back that we probably would invest in some way for a QB to compete and push Weeden

We also do not have as many "urgent" needs as some believe, the biggest are CB and FS...then it becomes a guessing and preference game: QB? ILB? TE? WR? OG? Of course we also have no starters on the lower value positions K, P and FB, but those can still be addressed later in FA or day 3 of the draft, so it makes sense to stay "flexible" entering the draft

The funny thing is, the biggest apologists of this regime and hater of the last are saying we are left with a boatload of needs because of the "crappy" forme regime and at the same time absolve this regime for carrying over 20+ mil into 2014 and not filling those needs properly...doesn't make much sense. What is it? Do we have too many needs? So, why don't we move our money that way? Oh, we are fine? Then why bash the past regime for their building job? I've seen many on here do a balancing act between these two positions

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I even hate expressing stuff like that on here, because this board is so agenda based. You got guys like Dj, Pit, mac, Super, mac, etc who just hate on EVERY FREAKING move. We can't even have logical and rational discussions. It's all about sides. Very depressing.

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I don't freak out over every more and I'm not freaking out over this move. There is no sides to have. If anything, I have my own little island because not many people fit into the mold of what I think.- Which is fine. I do believe that anyone we sign for practice fodder is ok and we should sign a lot of people for it. How could someone freak out over this?

Also, don't think that I look at how you react to see if it's a good signing. You think your opinion means too much to me. I do think you are a good poster, intelligent, however I don't switch my opinions based on your feelings.

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The funny thing is, the biggest apologists of this regime and hater of the last are saying we are left with a boatload of needs because of the "crappy" forme regime and at the same time absolve this regime for carrying over 20+ mil into 2014 and not filling those needs properly...doesn't make much sense. What is it? Do we have too many needs? So, why don't we move our money that way? Oh, we are fine? Then why bash the past regime for their building job? I've seen many on here do a balancing act between these two positions

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Gosh, you are annoying. And also you are full of baloney. We can turn that around. Guys like you bash the current FO for not filling every hole in one FA period. No draft yet. Not two FA periods and two drafts. Not three FA periods and three drafts, but one FA period that isn't even finished! Yet, after THREE FULL YEARS, you guys absolved the past regime for not using free agency at all and said how smart they were for building through the draft. Hypocritical!


diesel: You asked why I was disappointed.

I am disappointed because I know that we need both a corner and a FS this year. I think we need to fill one of those positions in FA. It would be hard to fill both through the draft. I don't know anything about Barnes. I can't ever remember seeing him play. I am not knocking bringing in a back-up, but I still think we need either a corner or FS in FA.

We have a lot of needs to fill.

We need another TE---could get one in the draft. Strong TE class.
We need a FB------should be fairly easy to acquire. Maracic has to go.
We need a couple of linebackers-----especially a starting Inside LBer.
We need a FS----see above comments
We need a CB----see above comments
We need a QB----I doubt we get one this year, unless we draft Smith, and that scares me.
We need a K-----I would have given Phil a one year contract if he would have accepted it.
We need a P------not too hard to find.
We need a slot receiver---a guy like Joe J, Wes Welker, etc. Someone smart. Someone who can read defenses. Find holes in the zone. Someone who can make sight adjustments and hot reads. Someone who runs the right route and makes the clutch catch on third down.

The more I think of it, the more I think they are seeing this is a 2-3 year plan. Not as bad as the 5 year plan, but I don't think they believe they can win this year. While I understand this approach, it still disappoints me to know we are going to face another year of some pretty poor football and that we'll have to listen to haters all year long. Sheesh, we aren't even through FA of the first year and they are merciless. Can you imagine what they will be like if we don't have a winning record?

Btw--------how are the Crusaders, bro?

Sorry. My mistake.

Is CB a priority for the Browns?


By Matt Cloud
OBR Contributing Writer
Posted Mar 26, 2013



The market for CB’s in the first week of free agency was disappointing for the players, as teams refused to jump at the top-dollar contract some pedestrian type players were commanding.


In Cleveland, the free agent player signing period got off to a quick start for the Browns with the signing of Jack-LB Paul Kruger.

Kruger’s deal with the Browns is five-year, 41-million dollar deal.

Shortly following the Kruger addition, the Browns announce a deal with DE/DT Desmond Bryant, formerly of the Oakland Raiders. Bryant a potential five-tech defensive lineman in the Browns defensive scheme inked a deal worth 34-million over five-years.

The Browns wasted little time again in bolstering the OLB position, signing former Cardinals OLB Quentin Groves.

Playing under Browns defensive coordinator in Arizona, Groves is viewed as a valuable veteran that can play either OLB position, providing quality, depth and experience to a Browns defense in transition.

In the first 3 days, the new Browns brass seemed to push the envelope in transitioning the team from a traditional 4-3, under former coordinator Dick Jauron, to an attacking style 3-4 base under Ray Horton, a disciple of Steelers DC Dick LeBeau.

A position of great need is the cornerback position. Veteran Sheldon Brown will not return for the 2013 season as the Browns are looking in other directions.

Those other directions have not been kind to the Browns early in the free agency season, as numerous starting quality cornerbacks have signed deals across the league, while the Browns have been left on the outside looking in.

Adding the likes of Chris Owens and Kevin Barnes are good for depth purposes, but not the type of signings which will provide the Cleveland defense with a proven presence opposite CB Joe Haden.

Interestingly, the Browns remain in contact with arguably the best free agent CB on the market, Brent Grimes of the Atlanta Falcons.

Grimes, who is coming off a 2012 Achilles injury has had a remarkable recovery from surgery and has been exceeding rehab parameters in his workout performances.

It is believed the Browns have offered a multi-year contract to the free agent CB, with the player expected to make a decision (Atlanta, Miami and Cleveland being considered) on where he will play within the next week.

The market for CB’s in the first week of free agency was disappointing for the players, as teams refused to jump at the top-dollar contract some pedestrian type players were commanding.

Presently, Cleveland is not really an attractive destination for various reasons.

The organization has a history of losing (one playoff appearance since their return in 1999), continuous organizational change and direction and the climate isn’t the hot-spot many of the younger league player clamor for.

Now, if a player seeks an opportunity, believes in what the team is doing, has ties to the staff or community, then Cleveland becomes a better option.

It also doesn’t hurt when the Browns offer contracts compensating players at the high-end of the scale.

Finding That Starting CB

Defensive coordinator Ray Horton’s roots may be the greatest asset the Browns acquired this off-season.

Aggressive coach, aggressive defensive scheme and a solid background of getting the most out of talent secured.

The Pittsburgh Steelers have drafted four defensive backs in the last ten years in the third round or earlier in the draft.

In free agency, they’ve never needed to spend big money on defensive backs in the last ten years, simply because the system isn’t designed for it being a large necessity. They attack and move forward with a fierce, yet controlled recklessness. They use their linebackers and safety Troy Polamalu to force opposing QBs into making quick decisions under duress.

As for the cornerbacks, they look for them to play smart, fundamental, physical, and aggressive. They do not go after the guy with the best of workout numbers and statistics. They go with guys that prove their worth on the field which is why they have been DB rich for the past ten seasons.

Fortunately, this upcoming draft is pretty deep for the position. For top end, you have Dee Milliner and Xavier Rhodes as the cream of the crop. A positive note for the Browns is that behind those two, there is a lot of equality within about the next ten prospects.

Desmond Trufant has a few negatives, but he tops the next wave of corners along with Jon Banks, Blidi Wreh Wilson, the rising Jamar Taylor, amongst others.

The draft is where the Browns will find their guy to play opposite Joe Haden.

Mississippi State prospect Darius Slay or Southeastern Louisiana’s Robert Alford are two players likely to be available to the Browns in the third round. As a pure cover guy, Slay is one of the best in the draft. Unfortunately, Slay is worse than former Browns CB Eric Wright in run support.

Alford, on the other hand, seems a much more schematic and stylistic fit for Horton’s defensive scheme. He has very good ball skills, smooth hips, does well in closing and getting his head turned to make a play on the ball, as well as his ability to give physical support in defending the run.

Alford is relatively comparable to Keenan Lewis (New Orleans) after watching him in Senior Bowl Practices and game conditions.

A wild card would be Leon McFadden in the fourth round. The only way I see them taking a corner higher is in a trade down scenario, moving outside of the top-ten and taking Rhodes in the first round.

No need to panic Browns fans! With a good selection of talent in the draft at the corner position and the fact that Horton’s roots has a track record of finding very good corners on day-two of the draft and beyond, the need doesn’t seem as pressing as most seem to think.

link

I agree that we can find a corner in the draft, but we still need real FS and a few LBers. We will need a TE. We don't have a second round pick. It's going to be another long year on the lakefront.

As much as I feel Gordon looks to be well worth that 2nd round pick it sure is hand-cuffing to not have it available to us now.

That one lousy pick makes such a huge difference in the approach to the draft.

except that we would also need nother starting WR too.

My guess is that Gordon would have gone in the first round and he would have gone high had he grown up last year in College. We got a steal of a pick if he finishes his development.

I'm not lamenting taking Gordon. I think he'll progress very well.

Only lamenting not having a 2nd round pick this year.

If we end up trading down for a 2nd and getting a good player at our new draft slot everything's fixed.

Nice bloated need-list (K, P and FB)....it's pretty much the same I posted btw, so we agree? We need a starter at ILB, CB, and FS on D...that's it, even the depth is set everywhere and there are some that would debate ILB with Gocong still on the roster. That's actually why I wanted some FA money to to a DB, to fix at least 1 of CB/FS before the draft...nobody is expecting to fill every need.

On O: QB and TE are debatable because of the youth we have there, but let's incluide them, then we're looking at a roster that could need 6-7 starter upgrades. Take a look around league rosters at this time and you won't find many teams who could NOT use an upgrade at 5+ positions...take the Steelers, they need everything right now: WR, RB, TE (Miller hurt), OL, CB, OLB, ILB and their S are past 30

As for being hypocritical: do we have the same over-aged roster Heckert inherited? No, we have one of the youngest. Even Haslam and Banner applauded Heckert for that...it's a totally different situation, everyone sees that and nobody smart enough is going to fall for your black/white logic on this. This and next offseason was the time to make a splash, that was the sacrifice of the modest FAs before.
It could be debated that last offseason could have been done more, but the market was bloated (Eric Wright, Mario Williams contracts) and we had over a dozen draft picks in a deep class, so it made sense to go soft in FA and hit the draft. That's what many forget: FA and draft are ONE, they ARE the offseason and the two player aquisition possibilities.
This offseason, we have tons of cap room and just 6 picks, not 12+...that changes the approach to an offseason...but I guess all we be received as "didn't talk football", rah rah, chest bump black/white

First of all, I think Gocong stinks. He is good in short yardage situations, but he has terrible feet and agility. He is a huge liability in space. Not all plays are goal line or short yardage plays.

You sure work hard trying to convince others to dismiss my opinions. I really don't care if anyone agrees. I will state what I believe. I'll leave trying to be adored by the board to you.

Smart people? Hmmmm.....smart people might consider that we had an old roster because Mangini blew-up the previous roster and replaced those guys w/guys he could trust. Veterans. Smart move if you ask me. The problem is that he only had one year of his plan. Smart people might actually realize that Mangini would have brought in younger players. That he was only in year one of the plan. Smart people would understand that the roster was going to get younger, no matter who was here.

You keep clinging to the past regime. Keep bashing the current one before they have even played one season. That's pretty smart and I am sure that most smart people will agree how smart you are for that philosophy. Judging something before any results are in is always the smartest thing to do, at least that is what smart people tell dumb guys like me.

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The more I think of it, the more I think they are seeing this is a 2-3 year plan.

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vers...translation...you are admitting what I have been saying...all Haslam, Banner and Lombardi have to do is continue to rebuild through the draft and finish the 5 yr rebuilding plan that Holmgren and Heckert started.

Holmgren and Heckert started a 5 yr rebuilding plan in 2010 and managed to get to year 3 of their 5 yr plan before Lerner pulled the rug out from underneath them. Now it is up to the new boys to finish what H & H started in 2010.

Both Holmgren and Heckert stated to Haslam, they wanted the opportunity to finish what they started, knowing the reward for their hard work was coming in years 4 and 5 of the rebuild.

But Haslam thought he had a better idea...Joe Banner

My hope is...that Banner does not screw this up!

Yikes. With all the money we still have to spend, we're really scraping the bottom of the barrel on guys like this. This off-season has been head scratching to say the least....

We probably agree on a lot of things regarding our talent level.

Don't get tossed, man. I like reading alternative opinions. It's how we learn. No hard feelings, bro.

Since this thread is now about depth & team needs, does anyone think Sheldon Brown could play free safety? I'm doubtful but am no expert like so many of you are...

j/c
Some of you dawgs are funny...woah is us we got a guy in FA n our thought process has to be flawed n we are doomed. Django...man your I AM A BETTER GM attitude is amazing...just amazing.

Look Dawgs this is What IT IS!
A one year contract...to a young kid who had a lot of UPSIDE never fullfilled. 6'1" is important regarding Upside. Its what Seattle did to good effect. I hope we sign 5,6 of them. Ex 3rd round pick from not a big time school the kid had a good foundation skill set. Now fact is He didn't make it. He sank to a low where he went to the Lions n Released just into the season...which tells me Personal Crap not Skill or Talent woes.

When you hit Rock Bottom - Two things can happen.
1. You mature you wipe out the past n pick yourself up with a new chance n make the most of it with an effort not afforded to your trade before.

2. You never pick yourself up n remain the bum you have created!

So he hit rock bottom...had all of 2012 to assess that he has to change. Did he make the turn? I don't know. Did he make our 53 man roster to state - OH NO We are doomed this is our investment to start at CB...or this is proof positive we do not have any regard for Skrine or Wade might as well throw in Bademosi in there...to make the turn. Stop reading too much into this. This is a hey...I really liked this kid when he was coming into the NFL I am surprised he is Down by the Wayside. Lets speak to him...hmm seems like he has gotten a big taste of Humility n is ready to revive HIS LIFE. Its called NO RISK - HIGH REWARD!

Thats all no big time commitment...a kid to come into camp. A kid who can hit. A kid who could possibly have his demons behind him n ready to make himself into the best football player he can be. This is his last shot! He either makes it n we get the reward..n sign a relatively young kid to a long term contract. Or he doesn't n we don't even carry him on our 53 man roster! That is all this signing is about!

Grimes...Still is a possibility - I just heard that its down to two teams... n we are one of them.

As somebody said here...if you improved the 50th person on the roster its a move upward. Well this kid has some pretty good skill set. He either gets rid of his demons n becomes the football player he should/could be. Or he is back to his beginnings n hope he got his degree to fall back on. For the Browns NO RISK - BIG REWARD...hope we never give up on this....bust, bust, bust - all you need is that one REWARD to make it profitable! We lose nothing if he doesn't make it...even Cap Space I think what counts most of this time is top 50 Contracts counts to our cap. Will he fill in that - if he does he's probably going to be around #50 or 49 irrelevant in our Cap.

JMHO - Come August we'll know what this kid will bring.

LOL @ Pope Dezz picture. Love it!

Well, I guess that Vid shows he can do it,, so why hasn't he? can Horton get his potential to rise to the top?

1 year deal = zero harm. If he doesn't work, its only a loss to Mr Haslam. He's got size, which we really lack at the position.

Not the #2 CB that most of us want, but hey, its something.