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#836290 - 12/31/13 07:47 AM Gilkey, Cooper, Baker
Nelson37 Offline

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What did you see of these guys?

Baker's easy. Quick, compact, some power, a bit elusive. Gives good effort, good hands. Does not go down easy. He seemed both quick to the hole and sometimes patient to let blocks set up. I think he had 2 of our best 3 RB performances of the season. Keeper.

Cooper I"ve always liked as an effort guy, Brian Brennan / Joe J type. Good hands, gets open. The one miss he had would have been one hell of a catch. He should replace Bess, the money invested may sway that decision.

Gilkey. Love the kid's story. To come from such a small school, earn PT and get his first start, that says something. ( I know, it says all our other guards were injured). Saw at least two plays were he seemed to block the wrong guy, and at least one he got to the second level on a run. No penalties. My hope is that he is inexperienced and weak on technique, and played decently based on raw talent and strength. That would mean that with another camp and year as a pro, he could be a viable replacement at one guard position.

All three of these guys played at least decent, and as well or better than who they replaced, with significant upside. All three at positions of need, major need, on offense, our weakest unit.

RB, #3 WR, G. Their development could be the most important thing that happened last week. Might make a difference in how many picks we would be willing to trade come draft day, for instance.

What did you see of these three players?

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#836291 - 12/31/13 09:19 AM Re: Gilkey, Cooper, Baker [Re: Nelson37]
DjangoBrown Offline

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I saw a fringe no3 RB, a fringe slot/no5 WR and useless/fringe 4th G...in other words: I hope we do not intend to start any of them next season or we will see the same kind of games next season we saw last sunday

Stop being the playing ground for fringe NFL talent...let somebody else find out if one of the 10 UDFAs/fringe guys is worth it or do it in practice, but please not on sundays anymore.
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#836292 - 12/31/13 09:39 AM Re: Gilkey, Cooper, Baker [Re: Nelson37]
Versatile Dog Offline

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Baker: I think we keep him. He runs low to the ground. He has pretty good balance. He runs very hard and gets extra yards. I don't think he will be our starter, but it was a very good find late in the year.

Cooper: He's okay. I would rather have Bess--providing he returns to his Miami form. I think Cooper will fight for a roster spot. Not sure whether he will make it or not.

Gilkey: He missed several assignments. Joe's first holding call was because Gilkey didn't block his man. He plays pretty hard and did not get pushed around. I think he sticks as a utility back-up lineman.
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#836293 - 12/31/13 10:18 AM Re: Gilkey, Cooper, Baker [Re: Versatile Dog]
BpG Offline

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I like Baker and you can sense the theme of the kind of Running back we want. FAST. I can see why t-rich didn't fit the mold, or any mold.

Cooper is solid. I hope he sticks.

Gilkey looked like a fish out of water. How can you be on a team for an entire season and miss so many assignments? With a reasonably amount of good drafting he'll be cut next season.

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#836294 - 12/31/13 02:13 PM Re: Gilkey, Cooper, Baker [Re: Nelson37]
Dawg_LB Offline

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Gilkey, even beside Joe and Alex, got murdered. No wonder he wasn't in the mix when we had injury at the guard positions much, if any. IMO, it didn't look good. O'niel Cousins, and people who follow me know I had negative to say about his performances when at guard - rightfully was the better player.

Baker, hell anything that will make Norv dial in some run plays and etc HAS to be a good thing, right? Not sure of the carries stat, but I think we have run hte ball more these last two games more than any of the entire season with this kid. Able to get those hard 2-3 yards when there are no holes, able to burst through when there are holes and he's caught the ball well. Not sure what opinion I have of him in terms of his pass blocking, anyone?

Cooper. I believe there was one drop, maybe two if I am not mistaken? In any case, Chud should have benched Little and/or Bess for Cooper a long, long time ago... before middle of the season. He showed more hope in what little action than Little and Bess did combined all year. Would like to see him stick around and see him get more game time. We never really got see him in extended play so the opinions are still wide open, but for sure IMO would have been a better, more reliable threat than Greg Little!

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#836295 - 12/31/13 02:23 PM Re: Gilkey, Cooper, Baker [Re: Nelson37]
Brownoholic Offline

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I hate to downplay what Baker did, but above all I saw some ridiculously fresh legs hitting the field for the first time very late in the season when everyone else was good & worn down.

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#836296 - 12/31/13 03:00 PM Re: Gilkey, Cooper, Baker [Re: Brownoholic]
archbolddawg Online   content

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Quote:

I hate to downplay what Baker did, but above all I saw some ridiculously fresh legs hitting the field for the first time very late in the season when everyone else was good & worn down.




That didn't help our other backs, did it?

All I know is I saw a guy take the handoff at full speed, and proceed to hit the hole at full speed, with a nice move here and there.

In my very subjective opinion, they guy has earned a spot on the team for next year, no doubt, and should be in the running for being a starter.

Replace him with ~omething better? Fantastic........but the guy has proven, IMO, he belongs.

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#836297 - 12/31/13 03:35 PM Re: Gilkey, Cooper, Baker [Re: archbolddawg]
Adam_P Offline

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Baker looked pretty good over those last few games, but we've also seen the likes of Jerome Harrison put up nearly 190 yards/game to close out a season.

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#836298 - 01/01/14 11:43 PM Re: Gilkey, Cooper, Baker [Re: Nelson37]
DCDAWGFAN Offline

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I like Baker, I hope we keep him and make him a part of the rotation but I wouldn't rely on him as our first option... he's in the Hoyer category of "He looked good but the sample was limited".. but he runs hard, seems to have decent vision and awareness....

Golkey I honestly don't have an opinion.. others on here are much better at (or at least seem to be much better at) judging OL than me...

Cooper seems to me to be a dime a dozen player. I won't be upset if he's battling for a roster spot next year as a depth WR but I won't be disappointed if the spot has been upgraded either...
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#836299 - 01/02/14 01:41 AM Re: Gilkey, Cooper, Baker [Re: Adam_P]
CHSDawg Offline
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Quote:

Baker looked pretty good over those last few games, but we've also seen the likes of Jerome Harrison put up nearly 190 yards/game to close out a season.




To be fair to Jerome, he was actually looking pretty good until they found a brain tumor.
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#836300 - 01/02/14 02:01 AM Re: Gilkey, Cooper, Baker [Re: DCDAWGFAN]
Kingcob Offline

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I liked what I saw from Baker and Cooper. I didn't really watch Gilkey.

I don't think any of these guys are outstanding. As DC said, Cooper is a dime a dozen. But..I think we had guys starting who were pretty bad. Especially at WR and RB. So these guys even playing average or slightly below average was a nice step up.

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#836301 - 01/02/14 11:13 AM Re: Gilkey, Cooper, Baker [Re: Kingcob]
DCDAWGFAN Offline

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If Cooper is average, there is nothing wrong with having "average" as your #4 or #5 WR....

People want to get rid of Little and Bess.. that's fine but do we want to turn over the entire WR corps (except for Gordon) in one year?
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#836302 - 01/02/14 12:28 PM Re: Gilkey, Cooper, Baker [Re: DCDAWGFAN]
Dawg_LB Offline

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Quote:

If Cooper is average, there is nothing wrong with having "average" as your #4 or #5 WR....

People want to get rid of Little and Bess.. that's fine but do we want to turn over the entire WR corps (except for Gordon) in one year?




Why not dude? We turn over coaches and staff in single years.

But in all seriousness, cutting loose garbage isn't turning over the WR corps, it's improving it and it should be what any and every coach does with their roster. And Cooper may be average, but what is Little then? Average and inconsistent? Just flat out below average?

Replacing a rusted out Ford Tempo that doesn't run with another rusted out Ford Tempo that "does" run is a step forward. I've said this many times, it may not be a "leap" forward, but it's a movement of SOME NATURE in that right direction.

A lot of rumors say Chud's "oh it's okay, we'll keep playing you and etc even if you keep messing up time and time again" played a role on why he was canned.

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#836303 - 01/02/14 01:49 PM Re: Gilkey, Cooper, Baker [Re: Dawg_LB]
DCDAWGFAN Offline

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Quote:

But in all seriousness, cutting loose garbage isn't turning over the WR corps, it's improving it and it should be what any and every coach does with their roster. And Cooper may be average, but what is Little then? Average and inconsistent? Just flat out below average?



Cooper is a solid but physically limited WR... Little is physically gifted but can't consistently catch the ball.... Little has far more upside and Cooper is what he is....

So yes, IMHO, a guy who doesn't run great routes and who is a danger to drop anything thrown at him is below average... Cooper is average because he runs decent routes and usually catches the ball... Little is currently below average but has the physical tools to be well above average if he can get some things fixed.

I don't really view either of them as garbage... but by all means, if we can improve the WR group, let them both go. My thought about turning over the whole WR corps was that you don't let them go just to let them go... you let them go when you know you have found somebody better.
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#836304 - 01/02/14 06:28 PM Re: Gilkey, Cooper, Baker [Re: DCDAWGFAN]
Dawg_LB Offline

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Agreed 100%, so using both our logic - replacing a Greg Little with a Josh Cooper is again, not leaps forward but it is a movement in the forward direction.

This is business at this point. But again, using the logic you said - the people like Bess (whom after reading some posts here by some ppl, has changed my mind on him) that possess a clear history of production, shouldn't be held with the same tight noose that Greg has when Greg possess a clear history of inconsistency and a factory of drops, both easily catchable and those tricky, but still catchable thrown balls.

The line between giving players a fair chance, a fair opportunity and a fair amount of time to prove themselves and improve themselves... and the line between "enough is enough, cut our loses and move on from this catastrophe. We've seen enough" is very fragile and delicate. Especially when your a Browns fan, where patience levels are also "delicate and fragile"

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#836305 - 01/02/14 08:50 PM Re: Gilkey, Cooper, Baker [Re: Dawg_LB]
DCDAWGFAN Offline

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Quote:

replacing a Greg Little with a Josh Cooper is again, not leaps forward but it is a movement in the forward direction.



It's a near term gain.. long term would depend on Greg Little's development.

I would agree with you that Bess probably deserves another chance because he has proven he can play the position before, Little never really has...

My thought still remains that you fix your weakest links first... I think that #2 WR is a pretty big weakness right now.. so you fix that maybe even getting more a co-#1 WR like Evans or Watkins... if you can upgrade some of the other WR spots, FANTASTIC.. but the weaker links keep moving down the depth chart until they either improve or drop off.... but every spot on the field should be evaluated for potential upgrades...
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#836306 - 01/03/14 04:13 PM Re: Gilkey, Cooper, Baker [Re: DCDAWGFAN]
PerfectSpiral Offline

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Greg Little needs to be traded. We should be able to get a 3rd rounder for him. If we can't even get that, then he's not worth keeping here. There has to be a better WR in FA or draft. He can't be fixed. If no one has taught him or coached him up on this stuff yet he is uncoachable. It's time to cut him lose. IMO

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#836307 - 01/03/14 04:32 PM Re: Gilkey, Cooper, Baker [Re: PerfectSpiral]
YTownBrownsFan Offline

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Quote:

Greg Little needs to be traded. We should be able to get a 3rd rounder for him. If we can't even get that, then he's not worth keeping here. There has to be a better WR in FA or draft. He can't be fixed. If no one has taught him or coached him up on this stuff yet he is uncoachable. It's time to cut him lose. IMO




There is no way on God's green earth that we get a 3rd round pick for Little. We might get a conditional 6th or 7th rounder for him ...... maybe. Unfortunately, while he is a very hard worked, he just cannot catch the ball consistently.
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#836308 - 01/03/14 04:41 PM Re: Gilkey, Cooper, Baker [Re: PerfectSpiral]
DCDAWGFAN Offline

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Why should somebody give us a 3rd round pick for a guy who is uncoachable and can't be fixed?
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#836309 - 01/03/14 06:33 PM Re: Gilkey, Cooper, Baker [Re: DCDAWGFAN]
PitDAWG Offline

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Quote:

Why should somebody give us a 3rd round pick for a guy who is uncoachable and can't be fixed?




That's on the coaches DC. Didn't you get the memo?
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#836310 - 01/03/14 07:00 PM Re: Gilkey, Cooper, Baker [Re: DCDAWGFAN]
Versatile Dog Offline

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I seriously doubt anyone would give us a 7th rounder for Little.
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#836311 - 01/04/14 03:36 AM Re: Gilkey, Cooper, Baker [Re: Versatile Dog]
GMdawg Offline

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We would have a better chance of getting a 7th round pick for Earl Little right now
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#836312 - 01/04/14 10:25 AM Re: Gilkey, Cooper, Baker [Re: Versatile Dog]
Dawg_LB Offline

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I seriously doubt anyone would give us anything for him. If there seriously was interest, which is questionable - they'd just wait for us to release him and then pick him up on a next-to-nothing contract. I think it's highly likely Greg will not be on this roster in the months to come, or perhaps any roster.

Good body, decent blocker, but can't catch and is a minimal at best at route running and being able to get separation against team's lower end roster cornerbacks... this year was it in terms of Greg Little and me. I just can't support the kid any longer.


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#836313 - 01/04/14 03:30 PM Re: Gilkey, Cooper, Baker [Re: Dawg_LB]
Ballpeen Offline

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I agree.


If I can't move him in some fashion, I wouldn't just cut him at this point. I'd wait to do that at some point after camp opens.
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