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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 42,100 Likes: 134
Legend
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Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 42,100 Likes: 134 |
Quote:
I find it funny that politicians actually have the kahuna's to use the word sinners when describing others.
that is rather funny isn't it. Very odd given how many sinners we have in politics
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 1,041
Dawg Talker
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Dawg Talker
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 1,041 |
JC I went to Cleveland 2 weeks ago to visit my grandmother she lives on Kinsmain and has lived there for over 60 years. I am not sure how Cleveland people could vote to raise their taxes when the roads have deteriorated so bad that it was a pothole every few feet. It was really sad. If you want to raise money for the stadiums how about raise ticket prices to the people who are going to the games. Use the sin tax to fix the infrastructure which would create some nice paying jobs for the city of Cleveland. It doesn't seem to hard to me. 
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Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 5,521
Hall of Famer
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Hall of Famer
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 5,521 |
The city is legally obligated to pay for maintenance due to terms of the lease. And ticket sales are already taxed.
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Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 1,041
Dawg Talker
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Dawg Talker
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 1,041 |
Just because the city is obligated doesn't mean it is actually happening.
The taxpayers of Cuyahoga county should not have to pay for something that they might not even use when its not essential to the lively hood.
Us fans and owners should have to pay for it because honestly we are the ones who are benefiting from it.
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Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 5,521
Hall of Famer
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Hall of Famer
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 5,521 |
Are you saying that the city, which includes plenty of people who do not care one way or another about the Browns, gains no benefit from the money it gets as a result of having a pro team and stadium, including rent, property taxes, income taxes from athletes, ticket admissions taxes, revenue from city-owned parking, and increased patronage of area restaurants and bars? That the only people who gain anything are the 60-70k people that file through the gates eight Sundays of every year?
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Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 17,375 Likes: 1361
Legend
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Legend
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 17,375 Likes: 1361 |
Taxes were not raised as a part of the sin tax vote.....I'd suggest researching it a bit more.
Tackles are tackles.
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Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 742
All Pro
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All Pro
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 742 |
There are widespread benefits. No doubt. There will be winners. There will be losers too.
Billionaire Owners can see their franchise value soar by $100 million or more. Bars near the stadium can see a huge bump, but a Martini Bar across town might just see another tax on their drinks. A liquor store/convenience store right on the tax border might lose business to the guy across the street that doesn't have to tax the same products. There will be thousands that pay a tax and have no interest in sports and won't receive any job/income from this. Its up to the voters to sort it out.
San Francisco refused to fund an NBA arena and the Warriors finally gave-in. They will build it privately. I think the NBA regrets the way they handled Seattle. They lost a huge market for Oklahoma City. Like I posted earlier, these leagues need the best markets. I'm not sure the cities understand their leverage. The NFL might be able to move Jacksonville or Cleveland or Buffalo. But, the league will suffer greatly if it becomes Tulsa and Toledo.
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 30,397 Likes: 440
Legend
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Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 30,397 Likes: 440 |
Quote:
Just because the city is obligated doesn't mean it is actually happening.
The taxpayers of Cuyahoga county should not have to pay for something that they might not even use when its not essential to the lively hood.
Us fans and owners should have to pay for it because honestly we are the ones who are benefiting from it.
As far as benefits to Cleveland, or Cuyahoga county:
I attended 3 games last year. Each time with my wife. 2 times with another couple, and 1 game with 2 other couples.
Each time, we stayed in a hotel for one night. Take that as 7 hotel rooms sold at around $180 per room. Think about the sales tax, the room taxes, parking.
Think about the CVS on the corner that benefitted from selling an extra 7 cases of beer. Think of the bars/restaurants that benefitted from an extra (total of) 12 people eating there.
Think of the parking at the stadium.
Now, had we not spent our money, there's a chance someone else would've bought the rooms - but probably not. There's an outside chance the restaurants and bars would've sold the food and drinks we had to someone else - but probably not.
Our parking at the hotel, and the stadium - I doubt it would've been taken if we hadn't used it.
And why did all of this happen? Because Cleveland has the Browns. If the Browns weren't there - we wouldn't have gone.
Now, take the (avg.) of 1 couple, spending the night in Cleveland to attend a Browns game - for us, it's around $600 per couple, tickets, hotel, CVS, bars, restaurant food, parking - that doesn't include gas, tolls, etc to get there.
Multiply that by say, 5000? people doing that - 8 times per year. That's roughly $24 million dollars being spent in Cleveland, in Cuyahoga county per year for watching the Browns. And that's only if 5000 people get a hotel for a night, I know............maybe not that many do - maybe more do - maybe some get 2 nights......whatever.
All of that $24 million is coming from out side of cleveland, or Cuyahoga county.
Why? Because of the Browns.
Imagine if the Browns weren't in Cleveland. How many jobs would be lost? Full time or part time...........I have no clue - but I do know downtown hotels are renovating, cab drivers get extra work, bars and restaurants sell more, hotel workers are needed, etc etc etc.
I just got done teaching Jr. Achievement to second graders - it was about community, business, jobs, and how money moves. It applies here as well.
Actually, next year when I do that - I'll be sure to include how money moves from one commuinty to another. The kids will get that.
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 42,100 Likes: 134
Legend
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Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 42,100 Likes: 134 |
Quote:
I am not sure how Cleveland people could vote to raise their taxes when the roads have deteriorated so bad that it was a pothole every few feet. It was really sad.
It's not a tax increase. That's the flaw in those that oppose the thing. They lied to people telling them that the team owners are getting all the moiney. the teams receive 260 million over 20 years, that's about 13 mill a year divided by 3 major sports franchises. I'm not sure how it's split up but if done evenly, it's a little over 4 mill a year. In the world of sports, that's chump change.
the rest of the money goes to maintain the three faclities, the part between the Progressive field and the Arena. As well as the parking garage.
Everything left, roughly 400 million, goes to the city.
Now, as far as fixing the Pot Holes, remember, we just had a rough winter, they'll get to the pot holes and because of issue 7 they have the money to fix those pot holes and to other things that bring this city to life.
Look around at the development going on. Hotels,Convention center, Med Mart. NONE of that happens without the continuation of this sales tax. And without this sales tax continuation, we probably don't keep the Browns, Indians or Cavs long term. Not to mention all the jobs that come associated to all the projects and sports teams.
If you don't like sports, then I guess it doesn't matter. of course, if you don't like football, then why are you here? LOL
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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DawgTalkers.net
Forums DawgTalk Everything Else... CUYAHOGA COUNTY SIN TAX
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