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On the flip side, Johnny has the talent to be a really good QB in this league He actually doesn't, which is why drafting him in the first was a massive blunder. I can't think of a single elite trait he possesses at the NFL level. He's undersized, inaccurate, can't read a defense, constantly has happy feet and poor mechanics, throws ducks unless conditions are perfect, isn't very bright, etc., etc. He was an uphill climb from day one, and should have never been picked before the 3rd-4th round. Perfectly said imho It was perfect except for the fact, he has a strong arm, tremendous mobility, had the highest completion percentage of any QB drafted last year when throwing from the pocket and he is really good when outside the pocket throwing on the run. Other than those silly little things, it was a flawless post by PDR. Now, now Mourgrym...don't go interjecting facts into a pissing match. Had BH not regressed so incredibly, JM would have never played...then...we would have no idea what we actually have in JM. Sort of exactly how it is right now.
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I wouldnt say strong arm but ill give you the mobility.
AS far as, highest completion percentage?????? thats a stretch of a stat to use. Either way.... he was overrated, undersized, and under experienced coming out of college with questionable maturity issues. AND He play with Mike EVans, who bailed him out of many situations.
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I wouldnt say strong arm but ill give you the mobility.
AS far as, highest completion percentage?????? thats a stretch of a stat to use. Either way.... he was overrated, undersized, and under experienced coming out of college with questionable maturity issues. AND He play with Mike EVans, who bailed him out of many situations. That's not a stretch. In his final year of college, he had the highest completion percentage of any other FBS QB when throwing from the pocket. That means that he made plays in the pocket, which is what you want your QB to do most of the time. I actually think that Manziel's biggest problem was that he expected the NFL to come as easily as college and high school did. He came into the NFL as a 22 year old kid. He had major maturity issues. He now sees that he has to grow up, and that he has to work hard if he wants to succeed at this level. Whether or not he will do so is the huge question, but I think that he does have the ability to play at this level.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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Yea highest completion percentage inside the pocket is just one of those stats that you really have to interpret. I mean its not like he has the highest completion percentage of any QB in the history of the SEC, career wise. O darn, I was wrong again, he does. I guess i just have to learn how to interpret stats.
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Yea highest completion percentage inside the pocket is just one of those stats that you really have to interpret. I mean its not like he has the highest completion percentage of any QB in the history of the SEC, career wise. O darn, I was wrong again, he does. I guess i just have to learn how to interpret stats. I thought we were talking NFL not college w his first year in the league compared to other rookies.
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I wouldnt say strong arm but ill give you the mobility.
AS far as, highest completion percentage?????? thats a stretch of a stat to use. Either way.... he was overrated, undersized, and under experienced coming out of college with questionable maturity issues. AND He play with Mike EVans, who bailed him out of many situations. That's not a stretch. In his final year of college, he had the highest completion percentage of any other FBS QB when throwing from the pocket. That means that he made plays in the pocket, which is what you want your QB to do most of the time. I actually think that Manziel's biggest problem was that he expected the NFL to come as easily as college and high school did. He came into the NFL as a 22 year old kid. He had major maturity issues. He now sees that he has to grow up, and that he has to work hard if he wants to succeed at this level. Whether or not he will do so is the huge question, but I think that he does have the ability to play at this level. If it's true that that turns out to be his biggest problem, it's fixable with hard work, film study and practice... the question is, will he recognize it and put in the work to fix it? He's done nothing since he's been here that leads me to believe he'll do that.
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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I think the first key to him being successful, would be him just being able to calm the hell down on the field..
The prototypical "needs to get used to NFL speed" thing first.. But he just needs to be confident.. Knowing what he has to do.. If that's only installing a couple reads with a dump off fine.. You can build from that..
The best thing that will help him is a great running game, and improvement on defense.. Pick up a few WRs and a nice TE and you're hopefully on your way..
Am I the only one that pronounces hyperbole "Hyper-bowl" instead of "hy-per-bo-le"?
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The best thing that will help him is a great running game, and improvement on defense.. Pick up a few WRs and a nice TE and you're hopefully on your way..
True. But, that's also true of any quarterback - in the nfl, in college, in high school.....
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John 3:16 Jesus said "For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life."
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I mean its not like he has the highest completion percentage of any QB in the history of the SEC, career wise. O darn, I was wrong again, he does. I guess i just have to learn how to interpret stats. 1. Johnny Manziel* 68.95 2012 2013 Texas A&M 2. Tim Couch* 67.15 1996 1998 Kentucky 3. A.J. McCarron* 66.86 2010 2013 Alabama 4. Tim Tebow* 66.43 2006 2009 Florida 5. Connor Shaw* 65.48 2010 2013 South Carolina
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I mean its not like he has the highest completion percentage of any QB in the history of the SEC, career wise. O darn, I was wrong again, he does. I guess i just have to learn how to interpret stats. 1. Johnny Manziel* 68.95 2012 2013 Texas A&M 2. Tim Couch* 67.15 1996 1998 Kentucky 3. A.J. McCarron* 66.86 2010 2013 Alabama 4. Tim Tebow* 66.43 2006 2009 Florida 5. Connor Shaw* 65.48 2010 2013 South Carolina So what is your point .... that a college QB with a high completion percent from the pocket will fail in the pros? You always rail against false equivalence ... well, there it is. Manziel may fail, but it is not because he had too high of a completion % in college, or that he compared to the other guys listed in that one regard. 
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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My point is that it's ridiculous to cite someone's college completion percentage as evidence that he's an accurate passer.
Windows are huge in college. You can throw ahead, behind, high or low and stand a decent chance of making a completion.
In the NFL, that window slams shut, and what one could do in college won't translate.
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... someone's college completion percentage... The rule-of-thumb is to expect a 10% drop from college to the NFL...
When the debate is lost, slander becomes the tool of the losers...Socrates
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Our other lil trooper, Colt McCoy, had a 70.3 comp pct at UT. Granted it wasn't the SEC, but still, 70.3% is pretty impressive. Too bad its doesn't translate to the NFL, for the reasons you mentioned.
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... someone's college completion percentage... The rule-of-thumb is to expect a 10% drop from college to the NFL... Whose rule of thumb?
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... someone's college completion percentage... The rule-of-thumb is to expect a 10% drop from college to the NFL... Whose rule of thumb? It's a generalization. Who knows where it started and I don't remember where I heard/read it, but I recall it was from a recognized source...
When the debate is lost, slander becomes the tool of the losers...Socrates
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j/c According to the of some our posters, we should draft guys who have a terrible completion percentage from the pocket in college and who also has a very low Wonderlic score, because after all, guys who score lower on that test are actually smarter than the guys who score high on it. But no, they're not haters. 
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According to the of some our posters, we should draft guys who have a terrible completion percentage from the pocket in college and who also has a very low Wonderlic score, because after all, guys who score lower on that test are actually smarter than the guys who score high on it. But no, they're not haters. I don't think anyone is saying completion % isn't important, but it has to be viewed in the context that produced it ... college defenses simply do not provide enough of a challenge to read-option spread offenses at the college level. They're playing pitch-and-catch. Statistics are used much like a drunk uses a lamppost: for support, not illumination.
- Vin Scully
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I think the point being made is that with the read option and the college game, while accuracy is an indicator, it's not an iron clad cure all.
If so, we drafted one of, if not THE best QB's of all time in Colt McCoy. That's actually the first thing I think of when I hear that stat.
I think a QB's improvement from one year to the next is every bit as, if not more important than anything. JFF met that criteria too. It just goes to show that drafting a QB is a huge gamble no matter which stats you look at IMO
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
#gmstrong
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j/c According to the of some our posters, we should draft guys who have a terrible completion percentage from the pocket in college and who also has a very low Wonderlic score, because after all, guys who score lower on that test are actually smarter than the guys who score high on it. But no, they're not haters.
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Pit, I have been very critical of Manziel's play in the NFL. However, there are people on this board almost acting like a high completion percentage from the pocket in college is a bad thing and having a high score on the Wonderlic test means you are stupid.
It's beyond ignorant. There is no logic to the thought process. It's just more crap from the same crappy posters.
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However, there are people on this board almost acting like a high completion percentage from the pocket in college is a bad thing "Almost" as in 'no one has ever remotely even implied that'.
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Dawgtalkers..
Where Everyone is Someone..
Almost is No One..
No one is Everyone..
Am I the only one that pronounces hyperbole "Hyper-bowl" instead of "hy-per-bo-le"?
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I certainly don't disagree with you that many cherry pick what they wish to dwell on and ignore what they wish to ignore.
JFF did a good job throwing from the pocket his last year at A&M and it is a very important factor in evaluating a QB.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
#gmstrong
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Cool.
And bro, I am not saying he is a good pocket passer. I haven't seen it in the pros.
My point is that when a couple of guys are so insecure that they need to diminish everything a guy does in order to make themselves look right....well......let's just say that we need to at least question where they are coming from. Everyone guesses right at times.
However, there is a difference between guessing and making a sound evaluation.
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The rule-of-thumb is to expect a 10% dropFirst I ever heard that. You mean from college to rookie season drop?
PDR. If you read the Pats report on Manziel. It was assessed that he refused to check down and would always go for the gusto. So what complimented that stat was the fact he didn't dink and dunk like many on that list.
The other thing comes to actually watching the games. What impressed me was not JM's stats or his accomplishments. It was that he did these things against great foes and he did NOT have the - 5,6 second pocket of a Lienhart (USC) he was in congestion a lot, his backside was in decent hands but that was it. What I also was impressed was the many targets and completions with NFL type Windows. Not that 3-5 yard spread from the CB. I'm sure there were occasions but in the big games against some great defenses. He had many NFL type conditions in his pocket integrity and small windows to the WRs.
Of course this has to get transitioned to the NFL. He is a project. But you diss stats when they don't go your way. Then you bring up arbitrary conditions that are very general in College to NFL and then you INCORRECTLY staple them to JM when actually it was the complete opposite. You know - make stuff up...lol 
smh
Last edited by eotab; 01/22/15 11:00 AM.
Defense wins championships. Watson play your butt off!
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