DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum The Future of our Defense

So I hate to be the negative Nancy, but with the way this defense has played, and the way Wilks has been game planning and destroying some pretty impressive offenses, where do we go next year or the year after?

I know this is a good problem to have, but sooner or later - someone is going to come knocking on Wilks door with a HC gig. Its going just a given. And I would suspect he has a sour taste in his mouth from his 1 year stint, and wants another go at it.

This is the one thing I was concerned about with the staff we hired. I don't see any of these guys having much connection or loyalty to Freddie, so if Wilks goes, do you think a lot of the staff under him would go with him, or stay with the Browns?

I know its a good problem to have, but its something I wanted to see what others thought.

I’m more worried about our players that we have to re-sign in the near future: Garrett is going to cost a boatload, Randall won’t be cheap, Schobert is coming up now, we’ll have to make a determination on Ward within 18 months, Richardson is a 2 year deal, Vernon, Mitchell, Carrie, ... the list is long and it’s gonna be tough to choose how to make it all juggle

Just my opinion because I like to play the contract game based on who I think should/will remain:

- I don't think we pay for Randall. He might demand top FS money. I think that chance died when they couldn't come to terms last offseason.

- I hope we pay for Schobert, but I'm not optimsitic.

- He is not on your list but I think we cut Kirksey and commit to Wilson. This opens up $$.

- I think we lock up Garrett and pay up big time. No-brainer, really. We can also pick up his fifth year option to to buy time.

- Carrie is a super person but we are paying too much for him. He either takes a pay cut or we release him considering we have Ward, Mitchell, Williams.

- We can cut Vernon next year with zero dead cap, but I'm not sure we do that. Avery has been a healthy inactive.

- Really like Mitchell. We have him through 2020 and is worth more than Carrie by a good margin, IMO. I'd cut Carrie, extend Mitchell considering the injury concerns we've had with Ward since Day 1.

I pretty much agree with all of this.

What are you thoughts on losing coaches though? What if Wilks walks to another team, and takes 3 or 4 guys with him on the staff?

Wilks was fired after one year in ARI. I think he'll need to re-establish himself for a few more years before he gets another HC opportunity. Now, as far as lateral coordinator moves are concerned, I don't know how that process works and if a team can nix any interview.

This might spell the end of Kirksey in Cleveland.

I would suspect so.

Especially if Wilson continues to grow and play well.

This is where we need to start thinking about Being Belichick.

Look how many coordinators he has churned through over the last 20 years..... his system doesn't change; that defense doesn't really change. He brings guys up from within.

We should be making sure we have a guy or three in house that know this system well enough to teach it at a doctoral level.... those are the guys we look to promote and grow.

Reload from in-house.

Exactly ... have someone basically be a mentee and preparing to take over to maintain consistency

Our linebacker coach, Al Holcomb, was Steve Wilks defensive coordinator in Arizona. He'd be a logical replacement.

With that said, I think it'll take more than a year to wash the Arizona stink of off Wilks. He's also not the offensive guru that teams are always looking for. Also, with the turnover of head coaches nowadays you can get a pretty good replacement for coordinators. The Bears lost Vic Fangio and replaced him with Chuck Pagano. We lost Gregg Williams and replaced him with Wilks.

Right, but that sort of replacement generally brings a replacement of system which leads to roster churn, etc...

If we like what Wilks is doing and we feel it is who we are going forward, then we need to think in terms of replacements that come in and adopt OUR WAY, not ones that will insist on bringing in THEIR WAY.

Agreed, and there lies the problem, are those "in house" guys - or are those Wilks guys.

Sometimes it brings roster churn. The Bears basically have the same defensive roster they had last year. Obviously hiring a guy that fits is important.

Either way, I'd like to think Al Holcomb is our guy. He's done the job before and is learning under Wilks again. I also suspect Wilks would try to poach him if he ever got hired as a head coach elsewhere.

Again, though, the problem would be - would Al stay here, or go to Wilks new team as his DC?

If he's under contract he doesn't have a choice. In the end this is a great problem to have as it means our defense performed very well.

It is a great problem to have, but if its a promotion - he is allowed to leave I believe.

You believe wrong. It is only considered a promotion if you are going to be the head coach.

(This comes up literally everytime.)

Belichick is also a cyborg that works 2000 hours a week and has his fingers and his imprint on everything that goes on both offensively and defensively.. Some have argued that their DC is little more than a figurehead anyway, which is why so many have failed when they moved on.... and on offense, Tom Brady... all I can say... Can Freddie be that guy? Can Baker carry the team through stronger AND weaker defenses?

I agree with your premise that we should already be looking at a line of succession.. On the bright side, Wilkes had a brief stint as a HC and it didn't last long.. perhaps that will give teams concerns and, for that reason alone, we can keep him an extra year or two.

j/c:

I like what Wilks has done thus far, but it's too early to make a set evaluation on him. We might be changing our tune on him as the season progresses. The D has a lot of talent and I hope they can continue to improve, but it's early.

I also don't know if Wilks will be a hot HC candidate. It went terribly in Arizona and more teams are after the hot young offensive coach to turn their them around rather than a defensive guy.

I also question Holcomb. The Cardinal defense really regressed when Wilks and Holcomb took over.

I'm more worried about losing players than any of the coaches.

I disagree on the part about losing players more than the coaches.

The best teams historically in the NFL (NE, Pitt., etc.) lose players all the time. They keep their coaches and they keep their Franchise QB. Those seem to be the two key components to constant winning. Guys like Mitch, Carrie, etc are all replaceable.

We have his replacement already.

We need to be like the top teams. Put systems in and if they work keep them. Hire those who are willing to keep the system going. We have a team of young talent, imagine if they can stay in the same system for years.

If I'm Dorsey I am shopping Ward for quality anything...doubt he will ever play a full season...my $0.02

Ya got 9 months of the offseason to worry about blowing up continuity,
During the season,I'll just watch the season play out

Ward’d Finesse type style is definitely his down fall. His tackling, slight frame, and injury history leaves many concerns IMO

It is my understanding that all coaches are viewed the same. We can deny interviews unless they are for a head coaching position. All other moves, even to coordinator are considered a lateral move.

I thought an OC/DC could interview for another OC/DC job if a title of associate HC was offered as well ... could be wrong

One more to add to this list.....Ogunjobi.

He will be heading into the last year of his contract in 2020 and deserves an extension as well.

I agree completely about Joe. The guy is not flashy, but he is a very good player and the key to our defense. Smart guys who are in the right place at the right time and put up big numbers are worth paying.

Another note: The amount of criticism that Ward gets on this board boggles my mind.

I don’t get all the negativity about Ward either ... I been shaking my head about that for a week or so now ...

Dudes given up a few catches ... it’s like his standard is NO CATCHES TO HIS MAN OR IN HIS ZONE or he’s Done a bad job ...

I tried explaining this a couple of weeks ago after he was getting trashed, but people might want to consider that we were rolling our coverage to the other side to help protect Greddy a bit and Ward was left w/more of the field to cover. Also, Randall was out of position a couple of times in Cover 3 and Ward actually did a good job by leaving his zone and trying to chase down a dude who had crossed into the middle of the field. And it's nonsense to say he "can't tackle."

Forgot about Ogunjobi as well .. he’s someone we’ll have to consider as well

It's simple really.

If a player or coach has a bad game or games, they aren't any good. Perfection is the only standard that is accepted. If a player gets hurt he is worthless. Better trade him and move on. Once they have a bad game there's no recovering from that.

It's a reasonable take on things.

That about sums it up, lol

Nope. Only the Head Coach title is considered a promotion. All other positions, from Offensive Assistant to the Waterboy's Paperboy up to Offensive, Defensive, and Special Team Coordinator are all equal in that they are Assistant positions and any/all are considered a lateral move.

Haha. That's one take - and as a community we definitely tend to do that lol.

Another is that Ward looked like trash in the first game. Got smoked by a rookie for 50 and missed two tackles, his only two tackle opportunities. Not that I live and die by PFF, but he was the lowest grade on the team for week 1. He played better in week two but missed more tackles. After week two he led the league in missed tackles in the passing game.

Ward set the bar as a pro bowler, not the fans. Now he's been injured and injuries are becoming an m.o. with him. All this adds up to fans questioning him as a pro bowl caliber player. Overreaction? I think so. But expecting no negative reaction is a bit absurd imo.

People get crazy during the first few games of the season and tend to over-analyze. Ward has an incredible skill-set, is plenty athletic, seems like a great dude as well. I think many posters have maybe blocked out a few of his "stinkers" from last year. We fell in love with him from his first game, a diving pick of Big Ben will put your picture on mantles in Cleveland. He definitely had some ups and downs along the way though, he got torched against the Saints last year.

The other thing people seem to forget - CB is a feast or famine, play on an island, totally unforgiving position in the NFL. EVERBODY gets victimized from time to time.

Like when you hear an announcer say a player " likes to do <insert thing> and has been doing it like this all year" .... in Week 2.

its the same if myles doesn't get 3 sacks a game. hes a let down. smh.