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He did look pretty bad last night...yet posters here want to rip Manziel and still put Bridgewater in a higher light after 1 game where neither QB looked good.

Bridgewater looked bad last night. He has a track record of starts from last season that was pretty. Manziel has no track record and has looked horrible when he has played.

Bridgewater didn't really start to come on until the last five games of the season last year, when he went 3-2 and had a completion percentage of about 70% against the Panthers, Jets, Lions, Phins & Bears. He put up 8 TDs to 5 INTs, and had two 300 yd games and good QBRs. Prior to that he was below average, even though he won three games against Atlanta, Tampa Bay and Washington.

So he did start to shine, late. But looked awful last night.

What you are describing is the typical performance of a rookie.

It's not really a commentary on him one way or the other, just laying out what he's done. For those who think he's lit it up, he's actually performed like a rookie but did shine some, late last season.

About all there's to say about the people ripping Teddy. Yeah, he looked bad yesterday, but let's not start to compare him with our qbs. Especially JF.

If you want a really funny read, here is a blog that some guy in Australia did while watching the Vikes/49ers game.

Funny Blog

Here is an excerpt:

Teddy’s collared. It’s all 49ers as Aaron Lynch gives poor Teddy nightmares. Sacked. Couldn’t tell you why it’s called that. But sacked he was, Teddy, sacked like a poor employee.

Niners kick off. The ball goes dead in the end zone. And the Vikings have to score a lot of points in not very much time. Teddy Bridgewater getting some instructions - Throw a touchdown pass, you fool! - and they’re first and 10 on the 20. He throws to No12, a huge man who looks not unlike Flash Gordon in the hit film from 1980, Flash Gordon. First down. Complete, to Kyle Rudolph, another big man who wouldn’t be laughed out of a Flash Gordon lookalike convention, if they have such a thing, you’d suggest they do.

I'm not going to rip Teddy as that would be unfair of me after saying we need to give our guys time to develop. He deserves the same consideration. What I don't understand is the hyperbole used to elevate Bridgewater while putting our guys down, including Farmer. To hear some talk about it on this board, Bridgewater is for sure, a foregone conclusion, a franchise QB. I think we need more time to see if that's true.

Last night he showed a propensity to check down, a lot. I'm not sure if he's afraid to throw it or they are trying to protect him. Another thing that gets glossed over, although it's possible a lot of people did not hear this, but it was talked about by one of the sideline reporters that Zimmer wanted to see Teddy throw in the HOF game. I thought that was interesting. He didn't want to protect him, he wanted to see him throw in a game of such little meaning.

Maybe he's not just yet the second coming, and maybe we should also give our guy a chance to have a rookie season of ups and downs. Yes, I know Manziel ruined his real rookie season, but he seems past that now, and it is in the Browns best interest for him to get some experience. It's still too early to say who will be the better player of the two.

Did anyone think they were looking at the browns from last year when they watched the Falcons?

Start fast, get points go ahead, defense flying to the ball offense sustaining drives, hell even Austin on a comeback at the sidelines for a first down to keep a drive alive.

But... field goals instead of TD's , defense gets gashed and they lose their edge on both sides of the ball, coaches do not make adjustments.

Up until when they scored late and then actually held at the end I thought I was looking at Cleveland...

LOL.. and don't forget, the whole thing started to go downhill when the Falcons came out and got the ball at the beginning of the second half and promptly threw an INT and gave them great field position.

Why do people feel the need to make things up?

Here are his stats against Atlanta. It was his FIRST START:

19 of 30 for 317 yards, 1 TD and no picks while putting up 41 points. His QB rating was 98.9. Gee, that's horrible.

Wanna compare those numbers w/Johnny's first start? Okay. JM was 10 of 18 for 80 yards w/0 TDs and 2 picks. His qb rating was 27.3.

You guys make stuff up. People are dissing Teddy for going 23 for 32, which is 71.9% and for having one turnover. He threw for 231 yards. His qb rating was 79.

Meanwhile, you are praising Johnny for going 13 of 24, which is 54%. He threw for 182 yards and had a qb rating of 75.3. He threw for 1 TD and 1 pick and lost two fumbles.

I think Teddy had one of his worst games, but please stop making crap up.

2015 season game one...

Passing Cmp Att Yds TDs
J. Manziel 13 24 182 1


Passing Cmp Att Yds TDs
T. Bridgewater 23 32 231 0

JM had no reps with #1s

TB had A Petterson and Mike Wallace.

Stop.

Go.

...you forgot to mention that Manziel turned the ball over 3 times leading to 21p. Bridgewater just 1 that cost them 3p.

Here's the bottom line. Manziel played better than last year and looked improved. He had no where to go but up so it was a positive sign, but we don't know how positive yet. Many already have their minds made up and that's fine. I'm just glad my boss didn't fire me after my first year on the job.

Bridgewater did not have a good game and we should not pretend that he did. I watched the entire game. He looks like he's afraid to throw the ball. I don't care what the stats say, most of his yardage came from checkdowns, which he threw almost every single pass play. Twitter was blowing up on his Hail Mary. Most didn't know if that was lack of arm strength or he threw it short on purpose.

What's the point of all this? Both guys need more time. That's only fair. But I'm not sure I would be going gaga over Bridgewater just yet.

Nobody's going gaga over Bridgewater. My point is that both aren't good Qbs yet, but Manziel is clearly further away. I happen to think that he both has a lower ceiling and floor, based on what I saw from both. Teddy is looking like a Tannehill type of QB. Lots of meh, but slowly improving into above AVG territory (in a couple of years). Manziel is just a crash and burn type of guy like Tebow. For every flash play, he gives back 3 (that's his real life ratio, so not even a exageration). Some, as you, think he could be special if he can consistently deliver the flashes AND surpress all the negatives one. That's a lot of dreaming going on, because you don't analyze the circumstances of the plays and there are clear tendencies when he can/does what. He's VERY limited, but it will sink in with time.

I had the same dream with Weeden and his deficiencies are "only" mental one's. That's why he's still a backup in this league. He can come in and flash a few plays to win one.

Manziel otoh is limited physically AND mentally. I'll explain:
Mentally, because he tries to transcend his limitations. That's the positive some of you see, but it will always lead to frustrating plays. You can play "bigger and faster" on some plays, but not on a regular basis. The league just won't allow it. He will either get injured again or be a turnover machine, probably both.

Physcially, because if (big IF, because of his hybris) Manziel gets smart and plays within himself, then his ceiling goes down the crapper. If he's smart and plays within his limitations, then he's Colt McCoy. A dime a dozen NFL backup QB. And let me be clear, in my opinion that's his ceiling.

My money is on crash and burn out of the league. Kid has been like that for too long, he'll keep doing what has worked for him until he crashes and we've already seen the first bumps.

75% of this board goes gaga over Bridegewater. It is the primary chip in the anti-Farmer campaign.

Not sure I ever said I thought Manziel could be special, but I'd like to give him some time. I think we just give up too easily in Cleveland - on players, on coaches, on FO.

I appreciate that you've analyzed the situation and never thought Manziel would amount to much and you're sticking to it. I just hope you're wrong.

As it should be, he's shown to be the better NFL QB of the two. When you constantly miss on better talent on every position drafted high as Farmer did, then you deserve the criticism. If he took Bridgewater and he doesn't make it, at least there was nobody else better at THE position of need. At least he tried.

And let me tell you as a Weeden-pimp that Manziel isn't even close to getting the hate Weeden got. You try to resort to the "isn't this what all we Brownsfans want, that he succeeds?" rhetoric, whith which you're basically saying "are you happy that we suck?". Yes, of course I'd rather be 100% wrong than endure another 3+ years of nothing at QB, but with regards to this admission, I'll never forget the reaction to Weeden double come from behind TNG win off the bench vs Buffalo on this board. That was the lowlight of Browns-hate from their own fanbase I've EVER witnessed and Manziel will never come close to that sort of hate, rest assured. I don't remember anyone saying "we just give up too easily". Same can be said about Derek Anderson btw and both have shown much more than Manziel in the NFL. You probably don't realize it, but Manziel isn't some sort of media victim. He's been coddled from the start and was seen as a savior from a large part of the fanbase. Has has earned every bit of the criticism he's received because his walk is WAY behind his talk.

I'm not resorting to anything DJ, and it's not rhetoric. People seem to take joy in the fact that the Browns suck or make mistakes. I just find it exhausting. I find you exhausting. That's on me, not you. It's my fault for engaging.

You can save whatever psycho-babble response you plan on coming up with. There's nothing more to hash out here. I respect the amount of research and thought you put into many of your posts. I think you know a lot about football, not just the Xs and Os, but the psychology of it all. But you usually find a way to ruin it by trying to dissect the poster at the same time.

Yet your entire premise is flawed. You wish to isolate things into a single week and use it as some type of gotchya moment.

You wish to ignore the fact that last year, as a rookie, Bridgewater improved to the point that in his last 5 starts he threw 8td's with 5 int's. Averaged 12.1 yards per completion and threw for over 70% completions.

Nobody takes joy in the fact our GM drafted JFF. Nobody takes joy that he ended up in rehab last year. Nobody takes joy that we've seen nothing in him like has been seen with Bridgewater.

It just is what it is.

I think you need to learn to read better.

I don't really think so. Most of us can see what you're actually trying to say and do here.

If you can't read, that's on you. You should just own it. Maybe even apologize.

You're a funny, funny man.

I feel like if a grown person can't read, someone else in their lives needs to apologize. Adult illiteracy is not something to make light of.

You're such a coward.

After reading this board, that would be a lot of apologies from moms, dads, grandparents, etc. It would have to have it's own thread.

It is easy. A guy ignores the cumulative work of a QB and isolates a one week comparison to try to prove a point that simply doesn't exist. Very easy to comprehend and repudiate.

Considering the source, I take no real offense by your ramblings at this point.

A keyboard commando. I've dealt with your kind many times before. It's the kind of thing that's easy to say to someone behind the safety of a keyboard.

Just to be clear, I was joking.

No problem. I don't take back and forths seriously on a message board. As you can see by the Rish post, he uses things like calling people cowards as some kind of way to get a rise out of people. Not the most manly way to react on a message board.

This was my first post on the subject and my subsequent posts have followed the same general content. I have also said that I watched many of Bridgewater's first games last year and felt he was so-so. I did not watch his later games where he appeared to make a jump. In any case, I am saying the same thing for him as I do Manziel - that is, I think we need more time before we jump to any conclusions. Again, you should just say you're sorry and move on. But to accuse me of something that doesn't exist, then not own it ... like I said, you're a coward. I don't really care that you're a coward. You have to wear that. But if you had any integrity you would just apologize and move on.

It wasn't meant to get a rise out of you.

I honestly feel that way.

If you take posters on a message board that seriously, I suggest you get help. I'm certainly not a coward but there's no way to appropriately display that on a message board. LMAO But cowardly calling people names behind a keyboard speaks volumes.

It wasn't a name intended to cause a reaction. It wasn't a name intended to incite. It is simply my opinion of you and your constant double talk on here. What exactly are you missing here? I'm not calling you a name like children do to taunt each other. I'm just being matter of fact. If that causes a reaction by you, and apparently it does, maybe you're the one who needs help.

I don't know what to tell you Pit, but I'm sure the board is sick of it by now. So go ahead, you can have the last word.

I think that you feel you somehow represent the thoughts of the posters on this board speaks for itself. I'll let that stand on its own.

That and the fact that calling someone a coward isn't intended to incite someone.

Nothing needs to be said beyond that I believe.

Regarding the other games...

Bart Scott: ‘Amari Cooper Should Be Looking At Teammates Differently Today’
September 17, 2015 9:50 AM

This past Sunday, when Bart Scott watched Pacman Jones rip Amari Cooper’s helmet off and then slam the rookie’s head into it, he couldn’t believe it.

Not because Jones did what he did, but because none of Cooper’s teammates came to his defense.

“This is how I know that this Raider team isn’t quite a Jack Del Rio team or quite yet a team ready to take the next step,” Scott said on CBS Sports Radio’s The DA Show. “Amari Cooper: young guy, nice guy. He doesn’t know what he’s getting himself into. He doesn’t know the NFL. He’s learning what the NFL is all about: tough guys. If you talk tough, you got to walk tough, right? So Pacman Jones, known as a little tough guy, bit of a thug, had some issues off the field, rips his helmet off and takes my young rookie that I’m supposed to love and protect, the guy that’s brought in here to try and get us to the next level – (it’s the) equivalent (of) banging (Sidney) Crosby’s head against the glass.

“So if I’m a Raider and I see that happen to my young guy, I get up,” Scott continued. “And listen, I’m not talking tough, trust me. I walk it. I would have grabbed Adam by his dreads and banged his head into the ground and choked him out and wouldn’t care who came on that field. It should have been benches-cleared, all-out melee, and you just pay the fine. We call that the cost of doing business. If that would have been a Ravens team that I was a part of, Pacman would still be getting his butt beat.”

Del Rio, remember, was on staff when the Ravens won the Super Bowl with one of the most dominant defenses in history.

“Can you imagine that happening and (Tony) Siragusa is watching you bang one of his teammate’s heads against the ground?” Scott said. “Come on, man. Come on, man. We call that the cost of doing business. You got to protect your teammates. You send a message to everybody that you’re not going (to stand for that). Come on, man. You’re supposed to be the Oakland Raiders – the castoffs, the goons. Now the next team on tape (will think) they’re a little soft. So now people are going to mess with Amari Cooper. You got to nip that in the bud immediately.

“I’ll tell you what: You might not be able to win the game, but you can win the fight – and they lost the fight. If I’m Amari Cooper, I’m looking at my teammates a little different – like, where were you at? It should have been benches cleared, time to go to work, and let Roger Goodell do what he got to do. Cost of doing business. You pay your fine. But the benefit far outweighs the punishment because now he knows you got his back. So now you’re going to get everything this young man got and then what? That’s how you build a bond, man. The Ravens team I was on, you do that.”

Linkeroosky

He's right.

what is wrong with this world when Da Raiders become PC?

Up is down, black is white, it's all bizarre world.