DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Another Manziel Thread

Makes sense to me

I think its safe to say we are terrible again this year. JFF is the worst over rated QB in the league. I thought JFF looked ok at best during the TD drive, but fell flat on his face the rest of the game. I have to agree with the analyst version that JFF is a momentary flash of excitement followed by a total train wreck in the end. I have never been a Tim Tebow fan probably because he has never been in a Browns uniform! However I thought Tebow looked much better in the pre season games than JFF has looked so far this year. And how about Marcus Mariota man am I glad we didn't give up everything to get him in last years draft (whew) I mean who wants a rookie QB that only threw 4 TD passes in his first NFL start when we have a guy like JFF just waiting to go back to rehab! Man its hard being a Browns fan sometimes, most times,!So bring in Tebow at least he can take a hit! ok Im done venting, I think.

He is to busy trolling to think Lamp. Berea is not even a Browns fan.

Have we even heard any diagnosis on McCown yet, or know if he will be cleared to play?

Manziel is overrated? EVERYBODY talks about how terrible he is. Also, Mariota was taken 2nd overall, we couldn't have gotten him. He's also only played one game, can we not act like he's the next Johnny Unitas and say the Browns failed miserably by not giving up years of first round draft picks to trade up and grab him? Why does everybody overreact so drastically and in such a hurry? People in the media and on message boards act like little children who didn't get their way and cast judgments on players with a miniscule sample size. It's embarrassing, honestly.

Tebow is a giant pile of garbage when it comes to QB talent in the NFL. He's been cut by every team he's been a part of and won't get another chance at this point. He might be a nice guy, but he's a nightmare of a football player. He's absolute garbage.

No, that's a poor apology. It wasn't a "wash", he wasted it, that's on him. He was lazy and didn't compete and lost the locker, which apparently he still hasn't won back.



...and he still was a TO machine, just like last season when he was on the field. He turned the ball over 3 times in 35 snaps last year, on sunday he had 3 in 24 snaps. That's 6 TOs in 59 PAs and 6 sacks to go along with that. In other words, he gets sacked or turns the ball over every 5th dropback. READ THAT AGAIN please. He sucks.

It will take hundreds of reps to get that rate to a "normal bad" level. Where is the upside? What has he shown to invest more time in him? He is who he is, his style leads to dumb throws and scrambles. That got his supporters all excited in college now live with it. In the NFL you lose games playing that way. The overthrown "oops catch" to Hartline was a perfect example of that. Running again and throwing it up from his backfoot. Those will lead to TOs more often than positive big plays.

Ok, ok, you say that aren't enough reps to make a conclusion, right? But consider this: the regime that drafted him has him as the backup for two straight seasons despite very beatable "competition". With Hoyer and McCown they pretty much set the bar incredibly low for him to take the starter job....but he didn't and they see him every day with hundreds of reps in practice. So do his teammates btw, which might explain why they were deflated when he entered.

Pretty much everything indicates that Manziel just isn't very good. Did that thought ever cross your minds? It's not Hoge or some outside haters, it's how his team and the people who drafted him view and handle him.

Manziel is Tim Tebow all over again. All media hype and a lot of pffffff

Where do you get the team was deflated when he entered?

Stop making crap up, man. You are in control of the argument. All the bullet points are in your favor. Those of us who want to believe ... all we have to hang our heads on is the hope that he will develop with experience.

So, please, please, stop making crap up. There's no need to embellish your argument. It's a poor look for you and others who do the same.

Even if there was some disgust on the lips when JF entered, pretty sure all that poofed the second he delivered a bomb to Travis for six points.

I don't understand the need/desire to rush him in to play. He CLEARLY isn't ready. It's ridiculous to think that getting bashed around is going to make him a better player. Experience isn't the only teacher. Many good QB's have sat and learned by watching, taking instruction, studying film, getting more familiar with the playbook, being mentored by the starter, gaining experience during practices and serving in a relief role.

The Browns have ruined every single young QB they've brought in since the return by rushing them in to start when they weren't ready because of a panicked perception that the new guy will be the next savior. It hasn't worked. Nothing about Manziel's skill set or performance indicates it will work now. He's on the bench for a reason: he belongs there.

I take back the wording: I said they "were deflated", making it look like it is a fact. That's not what I meant. What I did want to say is that there was a correlation between good and bad play before and after Manziel entered and it got gradually worse when he couldn't sustain drives. So it's FAR from a fact, just an observation that could be nothing more than a coincidence.

I DO believe that it is more than just that though, especially once the Jets took the lead, nobody around Manziel seemed to believe anymore and it COULD be that low confidence in him was the reason for it.

It's not a fact, but a possibility at this point, especially considering the reaction to him from last season.

You do realize Mariota has played just one game in the NFL and he played against the Bucs defense. He did play good but lets get some perspective on the defense he faced in comparison the one Manziel faced. Also...you brought up Tebow as an NFL QB and completely lost any semblance of an argument, he is terrible.

Sorry if my opinion isn't the same as yours, And I never said Mariota was a 1st pick, and his first game was not a total mess like your boy JF, Overreacting in a hurry JF looks as bad if not worse than he did his rookie year or maybe we didn't watch the same game. I also said I was not a Tebow fan but he can at least take a hit.

Again its not personal its just an opinion, Lets all get together next week and see how great we are if JF is the QB again

Fair enough.

In the Cincy game last year, it was blatant.

In the Jets game, Manziel came in at 0-0, threw a TD, and Gipson had an interception AFTER that. Defense was still playing well and inspired, from what I can tell. As soon as Gipson lost the INT, it was like the air went out of the sails. The defense could have buckled down and at least held them to a FG. They gave up, and I and I don't think that particular set of circumstances had anything to do with Manziel.

Manziel then gets another 3 points on the board and the Browns are looking at the lead heading into the half. The swing pass to Benjamin was beautiful. The pass to Hawk was awful but close. I have to imagine the team has to be feeling pretty decent at that point.

Then the D allows Fitzpatrick of all people to look like Joe Montana and slice and dice his way down the field to put the Jets up 14-10.

To me, the team gave up at that point. And that's pathetic.

The only person I really saw competing was Manziel. But I don't know what that had to do with Manziel.

And I didn't get the sense that his offensive guys quit on him. They may have been frustrated at a few plays, but he wasn't doing anything boneheaded, wasn't acting like an idiot, made some nice passes, and had some really nice scrambles called back. He also showed some toughness ... took some shots and shot back up. I just didn't pick on any give up because of Manziel.

Again, last year in the Cincy game it was blatant and Manziel deserved it (the fans didn't, but Manziel did). This past Sunday, the Browns just showed they are just a mentally weak team, in general.

If Manziel starts next week I will be behind him 1oo% as I would any Browns player. I was thinking suppose Austin Davis gets in a game this year and really lights it up. That might really complicate things wouldn't it?

Yet, in the one drive McCown ran on Sunday, the Browns were outstanding. He was doing his job very well.

Had he not done a boneheaded thing at the end, it most likely would have ended up with at least a FG. Not a bad way to start the season.

But, again, what little I saw of Manziel, he looked decent also.

I honestly think whats best for the Browns is for McCown not to lose his job because of injury.

It's already complicated...

No it's not. Three QBs, none of them a franchise QB. All of them expendable. Simple, really.

You don't need to apologize, this board is for discussing similar and differing opinions. When you sarcastically said you're glad the Browns didn't give up everything to draft Mariota at #2 overall, you WERE saying he was a 1st pick. To trade "everything" to take a guy #2 overall, that is the definition of a 1st pick. When you said Manziel was the worst, most overrated QB in the league, a train wreck in the end, and waiting to go back to rehab after the first game of the season, that is an overreaction.

You said Tebow looked much better than Manziel in the pre-season and that he should be brought in to replace Manziel. Who cares if Tebow can take a hit if he's still awful? That would improve nothing. He also did NOT look better than Manziel in the pre-season. You also said he looks as bad, if not worse, than he did his rookie year. He didn't look very good, but it's been pretty much a consensus among even the most staunch Manziel haters that he looked improved from last season. Almost every point you made was inaccurate.

I hope Manziel watched the Vikings game so when he grows up he can be more like Teddy lol.

Yeah, if JFF were 6-7 in his first 13 starts, that would be a vast improvement.

I already like Johnny better than Teddy. He's only going to get better.

I would trade three JF's for Teddy. Teddy has displayed a much better pocket presence/poise, while JF is "just starting" to show improvement there.

Pitt, I dont know why you think thats funny. I happen to agree with him. Johnny came from the spread and is rapidly gaining ground on Carr and Teddy. You guys can rip the kid, rip me for believing in the kid, I frankly dont give a damn.

I heard the same crap when I was pimping Tannehill and saying RG3 would be out of the league in 3 years. In Teddy I see a guy to eager to check down and I worry that he may never be much more than he is right now. In Johnny I see a tremendous upside and improvement in his game.

He needs reps. I may be wrong on the kid but again, I have seen nothing from him that says he isnt improving and isnt becoming the QB i thought he could be when we drafted him.

Well, one wants to be here and one doesn't, I'll take the one that does and you can have all the ones that don't, see how far that gets ya.

Teddy came from a pro system, he was considered the most proready since Luck. Johnny came from the spread.

You're absoltely right. Getting sacked or turning the ball over on every 5th snap, only way is up

Teddy might never become a star QB, but I would be amazed if Manziel ever develops into a viable starting QB

Gabbert and WEeden, I will just drop the mic and walk away.

Bridgewater seems way overrated on this board, but at least with him there's a glimmer of some development possibilities. I don't see any such hope with Manziel. I'd take Carr over either of them.

You're forgetting Roethlisberger and you're in the middle of your own "Weeden" my friend. Stay strong

Johnny Football is on the Tebow fast track out of the league straight to Hollywood or some reality TV show.

Are your eye's brown or is it starting to seep out of you?

There's nothing much to say other than, while I will agree he looks better than he did last year. If this is what he looks like in his second year with two off seasons (okay, 1.2 because he was drunk for most of his first one) then he's worse than I even thought he'd be. There were MAYBE 4 decent passes and all of them were one read and release. He's got no pocket presence, he's slow compared to D-lineman, and he's got a way below average arm. Couple that with at best a mediocre work ethic and what appears to be very little football IQ, I really have begun to question Farmer's abilities to lead this team. While I do believe that Manziel was Haslam's pick Farmer should have walked out of the building before calling it in. His career is going to be defined by this flop and he still went along with it...

I hope you don't men for him to watch the Niners/Vikings game, because Bridgewater had a pretty poor game, despite what looks like a decent stat line. He looked off all night ling, and his feet were a mess. He looked mechanically sound last year, but that was not the case yesterday. I don't want any of our guys reviewing that game, unless to see what not to do.

For the Jets game....you could have Johnny Unitas as the Browns QB. It still would not have mattered. Manziel actually did very well considering his lack of weapons on offense. He personally had two 20+ yard runs that were called back due to penalties that put us in 3rd and long situations.

Our run game was garbage, the WRs couldn't get open, and Manziel had to overcome multiple penalties against a top-rated defense. He didn't even practice with the 1s and he was coming off a two week arm injury. Manziel showed passion, fire, determination, and grit in that game despite all the obstacles He faced. He wanted to win badly and it showed...even more than the team combined.

I've never been a Manziel fan, but he's starting to win me over.

He was being sarcastic. Sheesh.

Btw---------you are WAY too obvious.

Hey Mourg............maybe when Johnny grows up, he can actually be a starting qb like Teddy? I doubt it, but little fellas can always dream.

What has Teddy done that is so great?

Where in my post did I say he was so great?

I simply said he is a starting qb and JM is not. You got an issue w/that?

No issue just tired of all the negativity, not just you, but its seems everyone on other teams are far superior to ours, and when we trade someone they were to good to trade and will flourish elsewhere, its not you its me ...

I feel for you. I really do.

I am just sick and tired of being called out on post after post for speaking the truth. Sick of all the big-mouthed posters who tell lies and then get offended when they get called on it.